From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #368 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, September 16 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 368 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- JoniFest Part Deux [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: The Sea is Full of Sheep Was: Pre-quel to Harry's House [Ken ] Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Man From Mars [dsk ] More Mendel Photos [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Man From Mars [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Man From Mars [Jerry Notaro ] Re: More Mendel Photos [dsk ] Re: Man From Mars [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Cameron Crowes About Joni on "Charlie Rose" [mr_lovesaint@webtv.net] Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House [Don Rowe ] RE: Pre-quel to Harry's House [Anne Sandstrom ] RE: Pre-quel in Richard's house ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Sheep and Man from Mars ["Patrick Willoughby" ] Re: Sheep and Man from Mars ["Kakki" ] Re: Sheep and Man from Mars [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Sheep and Man from Mars [catman ] Re: Man from Mars [dsk ] Re: Harry's House ["Alan Lorimer" ] testing ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: A Joni Moment ["Linda Montelione" ] Re: A Joni Moment [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Man from Mars ["Kakki" ] Re: Man from Mars [dsk ] Re: Man from Mars ["Kakki" ] Re: Man from Mars [dsk ] Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? [Relayer211@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 05:00:09 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: JoniFest Part Deux I know it's getting late to get this in the pipeline, but I'd like to wax on just a bit more about this fantasic gathering. Thanks for so many kind words about Yours Truly, all. I'm not worthy! And I didn't know I smiled so much! But there's photographic proof. Being there with this merry jmdl jonifest bunch had the "cat that ate the canary" effect on me, clearly. :-) I've gotta give kudos where due to the implementation team. My admiration of Ashara continues, and I was delighted to meet Maggie and partake of her culinary genius. For lunch on Friday we were served the most delicious corn chowder imaginable. The tender loving care put into everything we dined on all weekend warmed the heart even as it nourished the body. And, I had a chance to sit next to Maggie on the couch in Ashara's air-conditioned study. I came for conversation. To my amazement, and in a textbook example of the small-world phenomenon, I learned that her brother is a very prominent figure, associated with a legendary band very close to the heart of SF Bay folks, like me. Maggie is an restaurantuer extraodinaire in her own right. Atty May tells me that Maggie has been the proprietor of several of the most celebrated restaurants in the Boston area. One of them had "Blue" in the name as I recall. It's great to know you, Maggie. Thanks for everything. Chuck E. is the music guru with the mostest. You know how you can talk to someone and sense immediatly that they have "soul"? Chuck does. At Jonifest, above all else, the show must go on. Chuck made sure it was so. I can't help smiling as I recall how his band, with C on keys, had the packed house at Atty May's going wild on the dance floor Sunday night. At one point they played a hot, upbeat cover of Roy Orbison's "Pretty Woman" then smoothly segued into the Stone's "Satisfaction"! And the crowd went wiiilllld! Plus, the guy's a saint. Thanks, my man. Heather is such a sweetheart, and her inspired decor vision made for a warm and inviting stage and atmosphere in the church venue. It really felt like our home that day. Can't thank her enough. And the love that poured in from list members who couldn't attend, in the form of phone calls from afar, raffle prizes and all manner of email good wishes was just amazing! My mouth hung open in awe as I perused the two tables adorned to the hilt with Jonibilia. There were a host of Joni CDs, programs, art repros, as well as a mother-lode of SJC memorabilia, such as CSN&Y, Laura Nyro handbills and such. I was flabbergasted to see that so many Joni songbooks up for grabs! There were at least three Hejiras, a couple of Chalkmarks and an Anthology...I thought I saw a Blue, too, for crying out loud! (I scored a "Hejira" for my now not-so-modest collection :-) Such generosity is so touching. Thanks, List. Love the lot of you. Before I left Topsfield I enriched my life with a copy of Jenny's Goodspeed's original music on cassette and Victor's original musicality on CD. You guys really must avail yourself. They're both great recording artists, and even better live. I was really touched by Anne's set on Saturday, particularly her song "Wounded Eyes." That one caused my own eyes to leak uncontrollably for a spell. I guess this is as good a time as any to request a copy of your lyrics to that song, Anne. It really got to me. It's a fine song, as all the ones your performed are. John Van Tiel is a wonderful man and an inspired musician. I was heartily amused, but still almost moved to tears by his song about tofu, you guys! His whole set had a very pleasant, fireside feeling to it. A tender-story telling minstrel, he is. Just a pleasure to be around in every way. How sweet it is to have met Nikki. To me she embodies the innocence and exuberance characteristic of Joni's early years. Nikki taught herself to play guitar and has unique musical gifts and lyric writing acumen. I insisted on being serenaded, and she so kindly obliged. I'm looking forward to hearing more of her poetry and will hold her to her intention to do a full set next year. She's a dear friend to me now. Please come West soon, young woman. Just when I thought I would never meet simon, there he was. I was rapted to hear tell of the time he and Wally spent with Joni up at the Gorge during the Dylan, Van, Joni tour. During the course of my discussion with him it dawned on me: simon is the foremost authority on the music, history, lore, artifacts, discography and performances of Joni Mitchell in the world, bar none. A man after my own heart, whose Joni knowledge is inspiring and unassailable. I want to continue learning about her from him. Claudia. Claud9 indeed. She is a truly gifted guitarist with a beautifully supple strumming technique and a voice soooo sweet and high. Her endearing modesty becomes her enchanting stage presence and natural beauty. All the locals at Atty May's were asking me who she was when I was schmoozing among them at the bar. She makes an indelible musical impression and has an angel's soul. I could listen to her charmed rendition "Conversation" til the rivers run dry. It is really special. Wally K., thank God you're okay. We bonded like we were long lost friends upon my arrival on friday. We sat at Ashara's kitchen table reading Leslie's precious copy of Joni's very rare "Morning Glory on the Vine" book, explicating her unpublished poems and marveling at the nuances and complexities of Joni's artistic genius. I'm still wearing the "friendship bracelet" he bestowed on me. Fascinating man who taught himself English, perfectly. Lest I forget, Les... I am so thankful for your bringing us together and the professionalism and love you pour into jmdl.com. It really has been a fountain of knowledge for me in my Joni knowledge quest. What a wonderful thing it is to have the Jonifest pages and a hollowed place for all our jmdl Joni remembrances like it. I just feel so proud to be a part what you've wrought. Thanks a million. Nay, more. Victor is a musical renaissance man and a kind-hearted spirit. He played flute, bass, guitar, piano, and sang to delight the soul. I also was privileged to get to talk to him at length as we drove around the Topsfield area. When it comes to music and musicians, he gets it. It's alway great to meet a kindred spirit. Thanks for all your comaraderie, Victor. It was great to meet Bob "Muller-time" Muller at last. Whether he was emceeing, performing or getting his "quality time" on the dance floor with our Ladies of the List beauties, he's the life of the party and a super-fun guy to be around. Rock on, Bob. I thought I would finish this tonight, but I'll need one more installment to get things said, it appears. Thanks for bearing with me. Good night for now. - -Julius NP: Miles of Aisles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 06:47:03 -0400 From: Ken Subject: Re: The Sea is Full of Sheep Was: Pre-quel to Harry's House In a set of books from British author Lillian Beckwith, the fist of which is titled "The Hills Is Lonely", she lives on an island in the Hebrides amongst somewhat backward and ignorant people. Much of the fun comes from the islanders misuse or poorly pronounced english as they are locally Gaelic speakers. I remember from one of the stories a little girl is telling the english lady of 'Sheeps in the ocean' to the consternation and confusion of the english lady who is picturing possibly a boat that went down, but who finally realizes the little girl is actually saying 'Ships in the ocean'. MGVal@aol.com wrote: KS > View one: > > << > like Matala, you'd wash your sheep in the sea, rather than construct > a > proper dip! Anyone? Anyone?+ > > View from Mark: > > >> She can't sleep. An old cliché remedy for insomnia is counting sheep > (in your head I guess). It isn't working. Finally she counts so many > that the sea outside her window is full of them. >> > > Another View: > > Having spent the summer failing to learn how to water ski, (and attempting it > again tomorrow after work), I think that another take on the lyrics could be > choppy water with little whitecaps. From the shore, it can look like sheep. > > MG - trying to remember: keep knees bent, pull back, make sure bikini top is > securely fastened..... > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 07:26:16 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Joni and The Awful Truth From The Awful Truth, Ted Casablanca's E Online! gossip column on 8/31/00: Joni Mitchell, dropping some bills at Brentwood Village, celebrity emporium on the west side of Hell-Ay. The Ah-Nulds may come and go in this star enclave, but it is only a musical genius like Mitchell who makes me want to halt, watch and listen. Because the performing (and writing) legend indeed sings as she shops. Joint called Versailles. Sorry, Liz and Whitney may do it for the diva-fix, but Joni does it for everything else that does and does not matter, particularly when it comes to "acid, booze and ass," as Ms. Mitch likes to put it. Talk about a crooning chronicler who was ahead of her time. I'm simply blue with envy. And some reader responses from his 9/14/00 column: Dear Ted: Ted, you have now been raised to godlike status for mentioning the luminous Jo ni Mitchell. What a breath of fresh air in such a smoggy city! Damien Stanton, California Dear Ted: Thank you for your comments regarding Joni Mitchell. In this day and age of St ar Search-inspired "divas," it is more important than ever to recognize and glorify the unique, peerless, one-of-a-kind talent of this artistic genius. Mitchell has always been ahead of her time and always will be. I look forward to your column every week, and it was a real thrill to see my idol's name in there. Joel C. Lionelli Chicago Dear Damien and Joel: What, "Oops...I Recorded the Same Song Again and Again and Again" isn't spinning in your stereo? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:04:24 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Was Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House, now I Ching VLJC Although I hate to assume what her life was really like by interpreting her songs, I can only say that by hearing the lyrics to Cactus Tree, Down To You, Hejira, and about 40 others songs that immediately come to mind, hexagram 56 fits pretty well. thanks for the tip on this book. I'll search it out. Sue >Reifler names hexagram 56 " The Stranger" The kama section reads : "Perhaps >you are a sexual nomad. perhaps you wander in and out of relationships, using >them and the people involved to give your life meaning. if friend is >similarly inclined, then you will have a short, happy relationship; if Friend >has a deep-set affection for you, then it will be a short unhappy >relationship. If Friend is a friend, friend is bound to be hurt. As for >yourself, strangers do not get hurt, they only come and go. be careful to be >honest with friend: do not invent emotions you do not feel. If you accept >your wanderlust without shame and fear, it will reveal itself naturally in >your relationship; Friend, knowing what to expect, even if eventually >disappointed, will not be disillusioned." It goes on and on, but I just >wanted to give you an example of his modern interpretation of this hexagram. >I wonder if Joni related this hexagram to her own relationships. >Anybody care to comment? > >Rose in NJ ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 09:53:14 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House Fascinating topic - Joni's portrayals of women. I may have said something like this prevously on the list, but it seems that generally Joni seems to create women who are not too far flung from her own situation. I can't think of any song of hers about a woman who's living in poverty, a woman who's abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age from Joni at the time she wrote the song/created the character. Also, she's created some memorable black men in various songs, and quick snapshots of black children, but I can only think of one instance of black women - the 'skinny black models' from Harry's House. Can anyone think of others? Hmm... it would be interesting to put together a complete list of characters from all her songs. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 10:07:57 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House But she also creates the sort of one-off characters like Rowdy Yates and Jesse from "Dancin' Clown", as well as the narrator from "The Magdalane Laundries" (a former unmarried girl, who'd just turned 27...), and Cherokee Louise's friend. It seems to me that a lot of the characters are just to the left of Joni, who often makes herself the narrator's voice instead of the character's voice. She also often removes the time frame of the character she is portraying, as in the Magdalene Laundries: she is definitely "being" the person in the song, but is singing about the past, or another life, or another time frame that is not NOW. I agree with Anne...a cast list would be interesting! Reuben Reuben Bell Events and Public Relations Coordinator Glencairn Museum Bryn Athyn, PA www.glencairnmuseum.org >>> Anne Sandstrom 09/15/00 09:53AM >>> Fascinating topic - Joni's portrayals of women. I may have said something like this prevously on the list, but it seems that generally Joni seems to create women who are not too far flung from her own situation. I can't think of any song of hers about a woman who's living in poverty, a woman who's abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age from Joni at the time she wrote the song/created the character. Also, she's created some memorable black men in various songs, and quick snapshots of black children, but I can only think of one instance of black women - the 'skinny black models' from Harry's House. Can anyone think of others? Hmm... it would be interesting to put together a complete list of characters from all her songs. lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:50:57 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Man From Mars dsk wrote: > The soundtrack was first released with her singing, but those versions were > recalled and new cds released with the actress in the movie doing the > singing. Paul I has kindly reminded me that the substitute version is sung by Kristen Vigard, and NOT by the actress in the movie, Ileana Douglas. Hey, I knew that :-) OR, when Joni's not singing I don't pay much attention apparently. Thanks, Paul. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:15:34 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: More Mendel Photos I just was looking at the JM homepage and Jim has put a new section "More from the Mendel" and he's added a small gallery of infrequently seen works from Joni's exhibit. My fav is her "BC Forest". Any of you kind people want to chip in and buy it for me? Christmas is just around the corner :~) Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:27:25 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: Man From Mars In a message dated 9/15/00 12:04:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sepstein@agmont.com writes: << Does anyone know of a soundtrack "Grace of the Heart"? It seems that Ms. Mitchell does a demo of "Man From Mars"- from Taming the Tiger on it? I haven't heard the soundtrack and was just wondering? >> Hi Stephen in Vancouver< I have a copy of the "Grace" soundtrack that has the Joni demo of "Man From Mars"--it is a beautiful rendition and well worth having. As far as finding a copy with Joni's version v. that of the actress in the movie (whose name escapes me), I know they are out there, but it is real hit or miss, as the label states that it is the actress. I got my copy from a listmember who had two copies. I believe that the demo of "Man From Mars" is on one of the Covers and Contributions CDs that Bob Muller has been mastering (I don't have my list in front of me, so correct me if I am wrong Bob). At any rate, I would be glad to make you, or anyone else, a copy. Just E-mail me privately. (Trades are great, but I'm more than happy to make a copy for blanks and postage.) Stephen in NY (NP--Mary Chapin Carpenter Live--"Quittin' Time") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:42:10 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Man From Mars SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > > I have a copy of the "Grace" soundtrack that has the Joni demo of "Man From > Mars"--it is a beautiful rendition and well worth having. Fondly known as The Lost Version. Many prefer it to its final rendition on TTT. BTW, I have the dvd of Grace of My Heart and it is wonderful. An encyclopedia of Rock Era knowledge. Jerry np: The McGarrigle Family Hour (go Rufus) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 12:53:48 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: More Mendel Photos Hey, you caught me in a generous mood, so sure.... I'll have to live in your Florida (?) house though so I can look at it too (at least during the cold grey northern winter months), and that may turn out to be even more expensive than the check I'm about to write. :-) But seriously now (and I hope your panic attack is over), it is interesting seeing this artwork. The BC Forest that you mentioned is dated 1979, which means Joni's been doing the Canadian landscape images for a long time, even when doing more experimental work. The image is so dense and weighty that even the lightrays have substance, which makes the painting rather intriguing. Yeah, I could live with that. The one that's gotten me though is the 1986 "Image from Photo Series", although I wouldn't want to live with it. Eeeeee eeewww it's creepy. And it looks like a precursor to the Blair Witch image that was everywhere for a while. Again, Joni's ahead of everyone. Debra Shea FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > I just was looking at the JM homepage and Jim has put a new section "More > from the Mendel" and he's added a small gallery of infrequently seen works > from Joni's exhibit. My fav is her "BC Forest". Any of you kind people want > to chip in and buy it for me? Christmas is just around the corner :~) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 13:45:57 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Man From Mars <> You are correct, Stephen...The Kristen Vigard version is on one of the Volume 2 discs, and the original Joni on piano version is also available, I have it as a bonus track for the 1985 Rock Master Class interview, which is a must-have interview and songs anyway imo... Bob NP: Sonic Youth, "Wish Fulfillment" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: Re: Cameron Crowes About Joni on "Charlie Rose" julius K wrote : <...Frances McDormand, Billy Crudup, Patrick Fugit, Kate Hudson as well her boyfriend (who is supposedly some rock persona) and Cameron Crowe & Nancy Wilson> the boyfriend was/is Chris Robinson , lead singer for the Black Crows . jessfromatlanta NP: joe cocker : mad dogs and englishmen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:21:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House - --- Anne Sandstrom wrote: > I can't think > of any song of hers about a woman who's living in > poverty, a woman who's > abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age > from Joni at the time she > wrote the song/created the character. With the possible exception, of course, of "The Magdalene Laundries." :-) Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:11:44 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Pre-quel to Harry's House You're right, Don. And y'know, I think you've actually pointed that out to me before. Some of us have such bad memories. BTW, are we going to get you to come to next year's Labor Day JoniFest??? Anne - -----Original Message----- From: Don Rowe To: Anne Sandstrom Cc: joni@smoe.org Sent: 9/15/00 2:21 PM Subject: Re: Pre-quel to Harry's House - --- Anne Sandstrom wrote: > I can't think > of any song of hers about a woman who's living in > poverty, a woman who's > abused, or a woman who is vastly different in age > from Joni at the time she > wrote the song/created the character. With the possible exception, of course, of "The Magdalene Laundries." :-) Don Rowe ===== My debut CD "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:13:47 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: Pre-quel in Richard's house Bruce Merrill wrote, in response to MG's provocative post, "Pre-quel to Harry's house": "But it isn't only women who are the victims of degenerating relationships. I don't have Blue in front of me (as I should, I know!), but isn't "Richard" married or "domesticated," and so experiencing the collapse of romance, feeling trapped, etc." Me now: but I think that may only underscore the pattern in Joni's lyrics that MG pointed out. In my reading of the song, Richard is feeling "trapped" and "domesticated" precisely *because* he is buying his new figure-skater wife a dishwasher and a coffee percolator. (Geez, this makes me feel so old. What would be a new millennium-equivalent of these once cutting-edge gadgets? An entire voice-activated, computer-operated kitchen?!). Back to the subject at hand, though. Admittedly, Joni's lyric is unclear about whether the wife is demanding new appliances as her due as a wife and as part of The Arrangement, or whether Richard himself has bought into society's expectations of his role as a husband/provider without even thinking about it. But whoever or whatever has sparked his actions, Bruce is right. The way he's living surely isn't making Richard happy. And back to MG's original post for a moment: my reading of "Harry's House" is just the opposite of hers. That song, as a perceptive lister whose name I can't recall once pointed out, is in some ways the mirror opposite of "The Hissing of Summer Lawns." The wife in HH may have started out looking for "climbing ivy for the bath" and combing _House and Garden_ for decorating ideas, but by the end of the song, she's seen the light, renounced shallow materialism, and told Harry "just what he could do with Harry's house and Harry's take-home pay." (Feeling old again. "Harry's stock options"?!!) Mary P. - --Agreeing with MG, though, insofar as Joni's portrayal of women as greedy, materialistic, and demanding has been fairly consistent over the years, and has made me feel uneasy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:51:44 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Pre-quel in Richard's house Hi Mary Interesting take on the 'pre-quel' if it is that. I have always seen TLTISR as really quite autobiographical. She saw Richard in a cafe in Detroit and he had turned cynical and bitter while she was 'full of moon' and romance. And she saw him as someone who was domesticated and has taken the easy life. Easy but by comparison, a little mundane. His life is now full of percolators and dish-washers. Hers is still full of moon. But in an interesting twist to the tale, she admits herself that she is just a hopeless romantic and is doing exactly what he has just accused her of being - a sad romantic sitting in cafes, drinking her sorrows away. But The Arrangement and Harry's House and THOSL are all of a similar theme: a successful man, living the high life and having personal problems with their wives. The Arrangement was written for a film of the same name starring Kirk Douglas. And according to Chaka Khan, THOSL is about Jose Feliciano... apparently. HH is much more akin to TA in that both are businessmen (it is never stated what the man in THOSL does). All mention luxuries. Jamie Zoob - ----- Original Message ----- From: Pitassi, Mary Bruce Merrill wrote, in response to MG's provocative post, "Pre-quel to Harry's house": "But it isn't only women who are the victims of degenerating relationships. I don't have Blue in front of me (as I should, I know!), but isn't "Richard" married or "domesticated," and so experiencing the collapse of romance, feeling trapped, etc." Me now: but I think that may only underscore the pattern in Joni's lyrics that MG pointed out. In my reading of the song, Richard is feeling "trapped" and "domesticated" precisely *because* he is buying his new figure-skater wife a dishwasher and a coffee percolator. (Geez, this makes me feel so old. What would be a new millennium-equivalent of these once cutting-edge gadgets? An entire voice-activated, computer-operated kitchen?!). Back to the subject at hand, though. Admittedly, Joni's lyric is unclear about whether the wife is demanding new appliances as her due as a wife and as part of The Arrangement, or whether Richard himself has bought into society's expectations of his role as a husband/provider without even thinking about it. But whoever or whatever has sparked his actions, Bruce is right. The way he's living surely isn't making Richard happy. And back to MG's original post for a moment: my reading of "Harry's House" is just the opposite of hers. That song, as a perceptive lister whose name I can't recall once pointed out, is in some ways the mirror opposite of "The Hissing of Summer Lawns." The wife in HH may have started out looking for "climbing ivy for the bath" and combing _House and Garden_ for decorating ideas, but by the end of the song, she's seen the light, renounced shallow materialism, and told Harry "just what he could do with Harry's house and Harry's take-home pay." (Feeling old again. "Harry's stock options"?!!) Mary P. - --Agreeing with MG, though, insofar as Joni's portrayal of women as greedy, materialistic, and demanding has been fairly consistent over the years, and has made me feel uneasy. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 14:58:22 -0700 From: "Patrick Willoughby" Subject: Sheep and Man from Mars 1. Sheep. Joni must have a basic knowledge of French: the french for "whitecaps" is "les moutons" = "sheep". That's for all you "Carey" fans. 2. The cherished cat in "Man from Mars" is actually named, I believe, Nietzche. I believe he is nestled in Madame's arms in the portrait on "Taming the Tiger". At least I think so. Just for the record. Cheers! Patrick in Vancouver. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:02:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Sheep and Man from Mars > 2. The cherished cat in "Man from Mars" is actually named, >I believe, Nietzche. I believe he is nestled in Madame's arms >in the portrait on "Taming the Tiger". At least I think so. Just >for the record. Cheers! Hi Patrick, Prior to the TTT release, Joni gave an interview (perhaps the one on KCRW in L.A.) where she identified the cat in her arms is "El Cafe" who she said is "Nietzsche's wife". The lavender tiger cat standing in the tall grass on the inde art work is Nietzsche (Joni painted that originally as a "Lost Cat" poster which was actually tacked up around Bel Air when he ran away). The other cats are Pansy (calico Persian lying next to the vase of flowers) and Mojo (grey cat photographed on the back cover art of TTT. Kakki NP: Buffalo Springfield - Expecting to Fly ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 18:46:09 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Sheep and Man from Mars In a message dated 9/15/00 6:24:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << she identified the cat in her arms is "El Cafe" who she said is "Nietzsche's wife". The lavender tiger cat standing in the tall grass on the inde art work is Nietzsche (Joni painted that originally as a "Lost Cat" poster which was actually tacked up around Bel Air when he ran away). The other cats are Pansy (calico Persian lying next to the vase of flowers) and Mojo (grey cat photographed on the back cover art of TTT. >> ok...now kak...i've had one ...repeat....one, albeit a big one...gin and tonic. and i'm reading this and i'm wondering several things. a. are these cats monogomous? b. is the marriage between neitzsche and his wife lasting? c. these other cats, pansy and mojo,...are they male or female and is there an open thing going on between neitzsche and his wife and these other felines? d. and are there any details of neitzsche's hejira...any other cats in his life...maybe a coyote cat...or maybe a blue motel room...or who knows...but where are neitzsche's memoirs of his hejira...and...purrr...what did his wife do while he was away? patrick np. same unknown j. brooke song ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 00:16:05 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Sheep and Man from Mars > a. are these > cats monogomous? Fat chance. Cats, especially the females, are the biggest slags going! > b. is the marriage between neitzsche and his wife lasting? about 1 second(which is how long it takes a male cat to come) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 19:29:46 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Man from Mars Ahhh, into the nitty gritty.... So Joni doesn't have a cat named Man from Mars? So where did that name come from for the song? And in keeping with the current minefield discussion of women, men, marriage and materialism, what's the deal with Nietzsche leaving El Cafe for a while? And even worse from Joni's point of view, leaving Joni for a while. Wandering fellow. A wild thing. No wonder he's Joni's favorite and the inspiration for a song. Debra Shea Kakki wrote: > Prior to the TTT release, Joni gave an interview (perhaps the one on KCRW in > L.A.) where she identified the cat in her arms is "El Cafe" who she said is > "Nietzsche's wife". The lavender tiger cat standing in the tall grass on > the inde art work is Nietzsche (Joni painted that originally as a "Lost Cat" > poster which was actually tacked up around Bel Air when he ran away). The > other cats are Pansy (calico Persian lying next to the vase of flowers) and > Mojo (grey cat photographed on the back cover art of TTT. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 11:40:04 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Harry's House "Yellow checkers for the kitchen Climbing ivy for the bath She is lost in House and Gardens He's caught up in chief of staff" To me these lines summarise their whole relationship and life. They are both in denial about the reality of their marriage. Harry's life is centred around his career, not his wife and family. He thinks the way to her heart is through the provision of material benefits. His wife was using "House and Garden" as escapism. Harry still loves his wife but he doesn't understand her emotional needs. She has been hiding her own "gut reaction" and doesn't know how to ask for the love she needs. Alan Lorimer www.hawleybeach.com Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 23:09:54 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: testing testing, one two three (are any of my posts showing up?) ******************************************** Kate Bennett featured this month at Taylor Guitars www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/ www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:19:04 -0400 From: "Linda Montelione" Subject: Re: A Joni Moment Hi All! I had a Joni Moment today at the House of Lights. It's a lighting fixtures store and I was there with my two children on a quick errand to buy a special type of bulb. Gregory, my 8 year old, says, "Hey Mom look, a Joni Mitchell painting!" Upon closer inspection, I saw that he was looking at a tiny copy of Van Gogh's Sunflowers that was decorating a night light. It made me smile to think that he made the association between the styles of these two painters. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:19:35 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: A Joni Moment << Gregory, my 8 year old, says, "Hey Mom look, a Joni Mitchell painting!" Upon closer inspection, I saw that he was looking at a tiny copy of Van Gogh's Sunflowers that was decorating a night light. >> Or he could have been looking at your clothing, Linda...doesn't every shirt you own have Joni's artwork on it? :~) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 20:07:15 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Man from Mars Debra asked: > So Joni doesn't have a cat named Man from Mars? So >where did that name come from for the song? Oh yes, that is one and the same Nietzsche. Nietzsche the cat is kind of out there so maybe the name tie-in. Joni says he is not cuddly and very independent but does do a little dance with her down the stairs every day. She waxes on about him and the other cats on the KCRW interview which I believe have been transcribed on JM.com. > And in keeping with the current minefield discussion of >women, men, marriage and materialism, what's the deal with >Nietzsche leaving El Cafe for a while? And even worse from >Joni's point of view, leaving Joni for a while. Wandering > fellow. I would guess that with his well-known propensity to spray Joni's furniture, paintings and everything in sight, that he is a Tom cat. He's probably a rambler and a gambler and a sweet-talking ladies' man. The real reason he took off is because Joni tossed him out the door after he'd sprayed her couch one too many times. He got back at her by not returning and making her look all over for him for a couple weeks. To answer Pat's questions, El Cafe is very sweet and loyal to Nietzsche. And it sounded like Pansy and Mojo, who are younger and newer to the household, hang with each other. They probably tread carefully around King Nietzsche ;-) Kakki, who hasn't been drinking anything but probably should at this point ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:04:44 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Man from Mars Kakki wrote: > Oh yes, that is one and the same Nietzsche. .... > I would guess that with his well-known propensity to spray Joni's furniture, > paintings and everything in sight, that he is a Tom cat. He's probably a > rambler and a gambler and a sweet-talking ladies' man. :-) and I thought we were talking about cats here... > The real reason he > took off is because Joni tossed him out the door after he'd sprayed her > couch one too many times. Surely not the first tom to be tossed out because of indiscriminate actions. > He got back at her by not returning and making her > look all over for him for a couple weeks. Tough cat. Wonder if his behavior was different after he'd had a chance to think it all over (or got hungry and returned)? Or was Joni so glad to see him again that she didn't mind whatever he did, for a while anyway? Just wondering..... > Kakki, who hasn't been drinking anything but probably should at this point > ;-) ME TOO, before I come up with some more unanswerable questions. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 21:57:05 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Man from Mars Debra wrote: > Surely not the first tom to be tossed out because of >indiscriminate actions. Surely not, but probably the first furry rogue to be let back in....;-) > Tough cat. > Wonder if his behavior was different after he'd had a chance >to think it all over (or got hungry and returned)? Or was Joni >so glad to see him again that she didn't mind whatever he >did, for a while anyway? Just wondering..... No, despite starvation and the ever-present coyotes, he did not capitulate. A neighbor saw his Wanted poster and found him in his backyard and called Joni over. Joni says he yowled and told her off for a good while. She had to plead and beg with him before he finally "bellied up" and let her take hime home. Now he has his way and the run of the house and I suppose Joni has significant cleaning bills. Kakki ND: Mini-martini ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:37:50 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Man from Mars Kakki wrote: > No, despite starvation and the ever-present coyotes, he did not capitulate. > A neighbor saw his Wanted poster and found him in his backyard and called > Joni over. Joni says he yowled and told her off for a good while. She had > to plead and beg with him before he finally "bellied up" and let her take > hime home. Now he has his way and the run of the house and I suppose Joni > has significant cleaning bills. Not only a tough cat but a punishing one with a long memory too. Dangerous combination. Joni probably pleaded with him more than she'd ever plead for a man to return, and significant cleaning bills? That's true love. :-) Ok, ok, I'll stop talking about Joni's cat/man now. Night all. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 01:45:20 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Is Joni the best singer/songwriter there is? Does everyone here think that Joni is THE best singer/songwriter there is and ever has been?I know she herself thinks she's among the best in the world.I only wish she wrote less love songs and more songs about other subjects. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #368 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?