From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #345 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, August 27 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 345 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Reuben, You got me going with this one! [Richard Rice ] Cd's of the BSN tour??? ["Blair Fraipont" ] RE: Lyrical Thingy-ma-bobber-shingding-Record-mind throw ["Blair Fraipont] Re: (now Hejira) [B Merrill ] Re: Cd's of the BSN tour??? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Record Thread Poll [Leslie Mixon ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #467 [StDoherty@aol.com] Re: Record Thread Poll [Mark Domyancich ] Firsts [Maggie McNally ] Star Maker machine available from StarMaker Inc.? [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: lyrics to "talk to me" (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] on a bagel - 'Joni Mitchell kind of thing' ["P. Henry" ] Re: (now Hejira) ["Mark or Travis" ] First music [MGVal@aol.com] Re: Firsts ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 04:13:52 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Reuben, You got me going with this one! Well, I was half way into lala land, full and comfy from playing katsup with the digest... and a bit woosy from a long drawing session. Then Rube's woke me up BIG TIME with the following: "I've always thought that 'Hejira' was less musically adventurous than Hissing or Don Juan or even Court and Spark and therefore less interesting. it is more sophisticated than the records that came before Hissing but aside from Jaco, I could never see what was particularly new or innovative about it. Rubes baby! Yer breakin' my heart man. Besides it's grandness as the finest poetry ever to grace popular song, there is a wealth of innovation in her music here. This album was composition AT ITS BEST and then some. First, Joni is at the apex of finding weird chords to express and color her emotion. Those two opening chords to Hejira alone make this recording phenominal beyond belief. How, who could be more innovative, creative or expressive than what the opening rift of Hejira brings to the table. I remember the first time I heard those notes, I inhaled deeply, knowing something rare and special was about to pour out of my speakers. It's one thing to take a guitar, fiddle with the strings and invent a new open tuning. But to take that tuning and hear something strikingly original with it, fiddle, fuss and arrange with different fingerings to come up with that brilliant, haunting, beautiful piece of music... Wow. Can one call perfection innovation? Secondly, Joni's playing has come to it's ultimate maturity with this album. Rhythmically, she spaces the chordal play in a way that gives great breath to the poetry in the song. One review at the time refered to it as her 'free' chords and I couldn't agree more. This is where her connection to jazz inflections really comes into play. She is no longer anchored to the rock beat in her music. It's far more fluid and senuous playing. Although lacking the complex picking of her early work, her play here is far more complex and sophisticated. Even though much of it is a 'wash' and strum approach . This spareness of playing was certainly 'new' to my ears the first time I heard this baby. The rhythms of this disk is amazingly effective and innovative. Coyote is a class unto itself. It is 'uptempo' rock, but the rhythms stack in a way you would never hear anywhere else from anyone else. This song was an anthem for me for years. The musician as artist/poet, stepping out of the 'bounds' of popular song to create something fresh and very, very innovative. Even 'without' jaco, and jaco brings much to the table, this song stands far away and above typical pop rock. Ok, Joni has not stepped deeply into Jazz at this point, and there are a number of turns she will take now that she has moved in with more 'masterful' players who will extend her musical journey. And on those accounts one might see 'growth or change that is on the surface 'innovative.' But to my ears, everything Joni's sound will come to be and represent is fully arrived at here for the first time. She goes on to create a lot of beautiful music afterwards. She even manages to make one sit up and go... ????? But there is nadda in Joni arc as a composer that is more innovative, moving, or more successful than what came together to make this album. All that and a GORGEOUS package too!!! No wonder I love this woman. John, not Rich. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:41:32 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: lyrics to "talk to me" Well, that section that Jacky talks about is certainly a bit more sharp than the rest, maybe a little desperate for this chap to talk to her she is getting a little... spiteful? I certainly can identify with that situation... The feeling I get is 'never a truer word said in jest' type thing going on. She doesn't mean it but she says it anyway because of his silence. It describes a woman's desperate attempt to start a conversation with someone she's attracted to while he's giving her nothing. Much Joni Jamie Zoob Michael wrote: I'd like to stick up for "Talk to Me" and interpret it as a smart, playful song full of teasing and good humor rather than anger. Joni's anger comes across with vitriol in so many other songs -- "No Apologies" comes to mind, as do "The Windfall" and "Number One" not to mention the political stuff from DED. These excellent verses in "Talk to Me" poking a finger at The Silent One are delivered in a conversational, energetic tone, as if to a frustrating friend -- she precedes the lines quoted below with a couple of silly jokes (the giggly "Willy the Shake") and actually laughs at the end after the wonderful "chicken squawkin'" (a great contrast to Hejira's wistful "chicken scratchin'"). The musical arrangement on this track, too, is rollicking and good-natured. I think she's only teasing, playfully calling a friend to task for being difficult. It's not until later that the cart is upset, during "Jericho," when she reflects on the disappointments involved in friendship, "when you just can no longer pretend that you're getting what you need." Nickel Chief > "Is your silence that golden? > Are you comfortable in it? > Is it the key to your freedom, > or is it the bars on your prison? > Are you gagged by your ribbons? > Are you really exclusive, or just miserly? > You spend every sentence as if it was > marked currency!" > > Someone offered these lines as an example of well expressed anger. I agree, > but what does the line "Are you gagged by your ribbons?" mean? > All ideas welcome, > Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:23:58 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Cd's of the BSN tour??? Hello there, Does anyone have any copies of any of the shows from the Both sides Now tour that they wouldnt mind burning me a copy? I would compensate for the postage, etc. I am just interested. I would like to have one as a keepsake. If not, that is awesome too. I would just wait for a new tree to sprout. blair NP: Eat that Chicken, Charles Mingus ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:45:24 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: RE: Lyrical Thingy-ma-bobber-shingding-Record-mind throw First Owned: The Beach Boys "LIVE" -(a cheap old cassete of some 1965 live album with only half the songs on it from the original LP" First Bought: 10,000 Maniacs unplugged (i didnt get Into music or buy it until i was 13) What parents played: NOthing. My parents only listened to the radio. So, all my nostaglia harks back to music like Phil Collins, The thompson twins, other 80's music ..while swimming in our pool as a kid Album Cover:The Mothers of Invention "were only in it for the money" I bought this when i was 16 and couldnt get over the cover..and the satirization of the Sgt. Peppers cover..and realizing how bad the beatles really were...esp. compared to the MOthers" over and Over: Never had one as a kid.. :) I cant think blair ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:59:18 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: (now Hejira) Reuben Bell wrote: >I suppose Hejira is self-absorbed... Well, it comes upon us as a work written in a time of crisis, of flight. In crisis, Joni has pulled into herself... As we do in crisis. And she's running away. The constant rhythm guitar captures the movement of the car speeding through the desert night. She could play it in the back seat, and compose these songs while in flight. The songs are tense and obsessive, as she works her way through her turbulence. Outside the car: roaming nocturnal desert predators, the coyotes. crisis, car, coyotes... She's pulled into herself after the larger view that she assumes in Hissing. For me the special wonderfulness of Hissing comes from how she blends the autobiographical with these larger themes (suburban affluence, living a life and getting older) that others are participating in. She remains her own "centerpiece," there in her pool, but it opens up to so much else... Then there is a crisis-- a romantic, professional, existential crisis?, I don't known-- and she runs away to collect herself, hits the road: Hejira! (Wonderful title.) My impression of her on the cover, this is from memory, was how she was looking so spectral & sexless (witchy?) in the dry western landscape, in a way that very deliberately concealed & removed herself from her doting audience-- quite the opposite of the moist Hissing bikini shot. Reuben says: "The soundscapes are so bleak, but complicated at the same time, and the whole record is filled with those wonderful background vocals that sound kind of like whale songs and children (to me anyway.)" Which makes me want to hear it again, Bruce M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 09:27:12 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Cd's of the BSN tour??? Hi Blair, I've got the following BSN '00 shows on CD: LA 05/12 San Francisco 05/13 NY 05/22 Washington 05/25 Hartford 05/27 Boston 05/28 Chicago 05/28 Philly 06/02 Which one's the best? A REALLY tough call! Soundwise, they are all on equal footing. The setlist is identical for all of them. As usual, there are "moments" in different shows that are standouts. NY & LA shows feature Mark Isham & Herbie Hancock, but Wallace Roney on trumpet is the musical star on them IMO and he's on all the shows. So, just go : "Eenie, Meenie, Miney, Moe Bob, send me the ???? show"! :~) Bob NP: Lucinda, "Come To Me, Baby" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:14:12 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Record Thread Poll OK - I'll bite: 1. You owned. Jethro Tull - Benefit 2. You bought. My father bought for me - Beatles 65 & Meet The Beatles 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. Johnny Mathis 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. Rolling Stones - - Through A Glass Darkly 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) a 45 of Streisand singing "People" Leslie M. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:23:28 EDT From: StDoherty@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #467 In a message dated 08/26/2000 3:26:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Name the first record, 1. You owned. The Best of Herman's Hermits 2. You bought. MPG ... Marvin Gaye 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. The Ink Spots 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. All the 78's with those black side borders 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) >> Can't remember ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 10:17:03 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Record Thread Poll Finally a thread worth reading! >1. You owned. Arrested Development: 3 Days, Five Years in the Life Of... (I >know this isn't the correct title... I still can't believe I liked it!) >2. You bought. Same as above >3. You remember parents or guardians playing. Johnny Mathis (my mom >too, >Leslie!) Elvis, Glenn Miller, Neil Sedaka, various musical >soundtracks. I could >go through their record stack but why bother? >4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. U2 - Achtung Baby >5. You played over and over. Beach Boys, Kokomo (I think I was 8 at the time) NP-The Slip, Boy Shot Down - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:14:10 -0400 From: Maggie McNally Subject: Firsts I'm trying to take time to read digests and get ready for next weekend's fest...thought it was that "once in a while in a big blue moon" time to actually respond to something, instead of just THINK about responding. ; -D Name the first record, 1. You owned. That would be Herman's Hermits' first album. My mom and dad were kind enough to give it to me when, in the 8th grade I fell head over heels for Peter Noone and crew, and in my own little rebellious way chose to focus on them while everyone else in my gang was into the Beatles. 2. You bought. The Doors. Heard it and flipped!!! 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. Harry Belafonte, Calypso 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. Excluding Herman's Hermits albums (because anything that had pictured them caught me, including Sixteen Magazine!!), I'd have to say Santana. So cool the way the picture was also a composite of pictures. 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) First one not mine would have been my brothers...and that would have been The Band's Music From Big Pink. He brought it along with Dylan and Miles back to Dexter, Maine when he returned from his first year of college. It was just so cool. Maggie NP: Randy Black, What You've Lost Maggie McNally ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 12:34:03 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Star Maker machine available from StarMaker Inc.?  I found this on MSNBC's site. It's from The Officially Not-Unofficial Rob Bartlet page. Here, Rob answers a reader's question about Joni: Lyric listener wonders:        How could Joni Mitchell have been a free man in Paris? And what exactly is the star maker machinery, and can you buy one used?         Rob answered:        Joni has not only been a free man in Paris, she’s been a rambler and a gambler and a sweet talkin’ ladies man. I’m thinking it has something to do with Astral Projection. Or Jackson Browne. Or both. Star Maker machinery is proprietary equipment, and can only be obtained from StarMaker Incorporated. It allows the painfully untalented to become a mega star, seemingly overnight. Adam Sandler, Paulie Shore and Rosie O’Donnell are all proud owners of a Star Maker machine. I am on the waiting list to purchase a used unit as soon as Matt Damon’s fifteen minutes are up. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 14:08:26 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: lyrics to "talk to me" (md) I always suspected that this song was one of those Joni "gets back" at one of her ex-boyfriends. She undoubtedly talks her lover into submission in a real relationship. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 11:57:55 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: on a bagel - 'Joni Mitchell kind of thing' Nickel Chief wrote: >A tiny Joni Moment: At the deli counter this morning, I ordered my usual toasted whole wheat bagel with butter. The bagel got toasted and sliced by the woman behind the counter, who then turned to me with a huge butter knife in her hand, and said, "You say you want butta on da bagel?" Yes, I replied. "You want butta on both sides now?" Yes, I want my butter on both sides now, I sang, and wafted out of the deli on a cloud of swelling orchestra strings.> I wasn't going to post this 'joni sighting' but after the bagel reference I'm encouraged to leave no stone unturned... ;o) today there was a movie on... no memorable players in it, and a guy and gal were sitting on a couch talking and, in response to his asking about her violin which was there on the table in front of them, she began talking about her musicwriting in her college days (I think) and in describing it she said something like "...they (her music) were Joni Mitchell kind of things" (sorry, I don't know the name of the flik) the thing that really struck me was how the reference showed how much Joni has become a part of the very fabric of life in this day and time. having known her before she became part of the mass mind, so to speak, though pleased and proud for her, I have never been overly impressed with the many acolades she's received, not because I don't think she deserves them but it's just that I look at her differently... I guess it's just hard to grasp that someone I know could become what she has... a true original who's influence is so broad and deep that much of the musical landscape we have today in many ways is built on her music and without her, wouldn't be there at all! pat NP: You're My Thrill http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 15:07:39 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Firsts I couldn't resist this one. Name the first record, 1. You owned. My cousins gave me a 45 of Elvis' Return To Sender for my fifth birthday. I remember developing a little dance and lip synch routine to that song. My routine became a cult favorite of my brood of cousins during our frequent "concerts" for the folks. I loved that damn song - still do. Can still do the routine too! 2. You bought. A 45 - Rag Doll by The Four Seasons. Same era, kindergarten. Two weeks of my stipend allowance saved up for that. 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. Kingston Trio - Tom Dewey or was it Kay Starr - The Wheel of Fortune? 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. The Monkees (crush on Davey, I'm sure) 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) Tijuana Brass - Whipped Cream and Other Delights. It was my parents' album. Man, this really takes you back! No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg - as Elvis. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:20:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Reuben, You got me going with this one! > Rube's woke me up BIG TIME with the following: > > "I've always thought that 'Hejira' was less musically adventurous than > Hissing or Don Juan or even Court and Spark and therefore less > interesting. it is more sophisticated than the records that came before > Hissing but aside from Jaco, I could never see what was particularly new > or innovative about it. > > Rubes baby! Yer breakin' my heart man. Just for the record, Reuben didn't write this, I did. How, who could be more > innovative, creative or expressive than what the opening rift of Hejira > brings to the table. I remember the first time I heard those notes, I > inhaled deeply, knowing something rare and special was about to pour out > of my speakers. It's one thing to take a guitar, fiddle with the strings > and invent a new open tuning. But to take that tuning and hear something > strikingly original with it, fiddle, fuss and arrange with different > fingerings to come up with that brilliant, haunting, beautiful piece of > music... Wow. Hmm. Well, I have to say that I don't have your musical expertise so much of what you write would never have occurred to me. But to my ears, the opening notes of 'I Had A King' are just as haunting & beautiful. As are the first piano chords of 'Court and Spark'. Now when I hear the 'Overture' and subsequent 'Cotton Avenue' on DJRD, then my ears perk up & take notice! Hejira is beautiful but not as interesting to me. > Can one call perfection innovation? No, not necessarily. I don't think so. Just because something is perfectly executed it doesn't make it genius or innovative. But there is nadda in Joni arc as a composer > that is more innovative, moving, or more successful than what came > together to make this album. Again, I disagree. The guitar and composition of the title track of 'Turbulent Indigo' are much more daring than anything off 'Hejira', imo. I would also cite 'Magdalene Laundries' & 'Sire of Sorrow' from the same album and 'Cherokee Louise', 'Passion Play' and 'Slouching Toward Bethlehem' on 'Night Ride Home'. I think those records are more than just a 'paring down' or a 'return to form'. I'm sorry, I'm not a musician so maybe I should shut up & defer to the superior knowledge of others on the list. But to me these two later records have a depth to them and a distinct sound that put them a few notches above the highly rated 'Hejira'. Damn, I'm stubborn, aren't I??! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:26:21 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: lyrics to "talk to me" > I'd like to stick up for "Talk to Me" and interpret it as a smart, playful > song full of teasing and good humor rather than anger. Joni's anger comes > across with vitriol in so many other songs -- "No Apologies" comes to mind, > as do "The Windfall" and "Number One" not to mention the political stuff > from DED. These excellent verses in "Talk to Me" poking a finger at The > Silent One are delivered in a conversational, energetic tone, as if to a > frustrating friend -- she precedes the lines quoted below with a couple of > silly jokes (the giggly "Willy the Shake") and actually laughs at the end > after the wonderful "chicken squawkin'" (a great contrast to Hejira's > wistful "chicken scratchin' This has always been my take on this song too. The whole thing is light-hearted and Joni pokes fun at herself as well as Mr. Mystery. I never detected anger in this song. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:30:46 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: (now Hejira) > My impression of her on the cover, this is from memory, was how she was > looking so spectral & sexless (witchy?) in the dry western landscape, in a > way that very deliberately concealed & removed herself from her doting > audience-- quite the opposite of the moist Hissing bikini shot. Interesting. I never viewed her photo on the Hejira cover that way. I always thought of it as a glamour shot. It has an almost air-brushed look to it. Certainly not sexless with those luminous eyes, marvelous cheek-bones & full lips. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:02:04 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: First music I'm biting: Name the first record, 1. You owned. 1969 NY Mets Commerative World Series Album 2. You bought. Decca recording of Jesus Christ Superstar 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. My parents did not listen to music at all. Nor did they read. Or look at art. Or go to movies. My dad did listen to the police scanner and WINS, all news all the time.... 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. Joni's "Song to a Seagull" Buying her albums opened up the door to my overall musical purchases as a teenager. I used most of my paper route money to fix my need. I can remember sitting up in my bedroom with the headphones on, studying STAS cover art as if I would be tested on it in class. 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) My sister Pat's Beatle albums. MG >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 17:30:57 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Firsts Name the first record, 1. You owned. Besides The Chipmunks - it was either Beyond The Sea - Bobby Darrin or Cathy's Clown - Everly Bros. 2. You bought. Introducing the Beatles (VeeJay label) 3. You remember parents or guardians playing. Louis Armstrong, Julie Andrews, Burt Bacharach (father later became a secret Beatles, Jimmy Webb and Karen Carpenter fan, mother had a thing for Jim Croce) 4. The cover art of which struck early interest for you. Disraeli Gears - Cream, and Song To A Seagull 5. You played over and over. (not necessarily yours) Song To A Seagull, Doors Kakki NP: Fred Simon - Blackbird ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #345 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?