From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #343 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, August 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 343 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Amazon Recommendations (SJC) ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re" Lyrics ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 [Mg41mk34@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 [Mg41mk34@aol.com] Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? [Don Rowe ] Re: Coyote - why a defector? ["Kakki" ] Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] Fwd: Re: Coyote - why a defector? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] RE: While we're on the subject of BSN... ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Re Lyrics ["Mark or Travis" ] definitive... [Christopher Treacy ] Re: Coyote - why a defector?; WARNING---Metaphorical content, LONG ["Jim ] lyrics [Christopher Treacy ] Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: popular vs. passionate [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re:While we're on the subject of BSN... [RoseMJoy@aol.com] At last...Stevie's Come Along! ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] joni sales/lagging audience ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: Coyote - why a defector? [Dflahm@aol.com] Lahm's Coyote ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] FAvorite lyrics [IVPAUL42@aol.com] FAvorite lyrics [IVPAUL42@aol.com] At Last [byron bentley ] re: favorite lyrics ["Ray and Cathy" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:04:12 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Amazon Recommendations (SJC) I just checked out Amazon's recommendations for music for me, which are based on previous purchases, and lo and behold the following recommendation caught my eye: Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell by our own David Lahm! It even gets a five star recommendation courtesy of a Lady from New Zealand (not our Hell though). Isn't it good to see that Amazon is promoting music by JMDL members :-) Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:11:23 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Re" Lyrics I wish I had the wings Of Noahs pretty little white dove I would fly this raging river To reach the one i love But I have no wings And the water is So wide We'll have to row a little harder It's just in dreams we fly In my dreams we fly! I love it, i love it.. VA BENE!! blair bliggity F ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:14:54 EDT From: Mg41mk34@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 Yes, Linda will be covering "River," on her Christmas album titled, "A MERRY LITTLE CHRISTMAS" I cannot wait, considering Linda is my #1 and I love Joni Mitchell and Linda has never covered any Joni, even though I understand they have been close in the past. She wanted to cover it about five years ago, but didn't. It should be interesting. No one has the pipes like Linda. No writes a song like Joni. Match made in heaven. I can hear her singing it now. Joni and Linda remind me of each other a lot. They both are very technical when it comes talking music. They are fiercely independent women, that speak their mind. They are very opinionated women. I love the both. These are the true role models for young girls. Unfortunately, my oldest has a fascination with Lil' Kim right now. Oh well. I try. Mike In Boston ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:16:34 EDT From: Mg41mk34@aol.com Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 Lori, I couldn't agree with you more. On both points. Mike In Boston ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? - --- Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > I only love > 70's Joni Music,so shows > from the 70's are the only ones I'd be interested > in...preferably with Joni > talking to the audience on it. I guess that means I won't be burning you a copy of the mixing board back-up tapes from the "Dog Eat Dog" sessions -- even though there's this really cool argument, at the end of which Joni knocks Dolby and Klein's heads together -- decides it sounds really cool, samples it into the Fairlight CMI and uses it as the congas patch on "Ethiopia"? ;-) Don Rowe THIS IS A JOKE -- I HAVE NO SUCH RECORDING ... ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:31:22 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Re: Lyrics Going through a period of self examination (I am too tired to blow it up into a full blown mid-life crisis), I was struck again by these lyrics: You could have been more Than a name on the door On the thirty-third floor in the air More than a consumer Lying in some room trying to die More than a credit card Swimming pool in the backyard The Arrangement - LOTC Of course, it does not apply to me - my office is not on the 33rd floor and I have no swimming pool. It does convince me that one of the wonderful things about JM is her ability to seize on a timeless theme -- selling out -- and choose to put it in a song, and then nail it both in lyrics and in melody/delivery. All at a very young age (early 20's)! I am not worthy. Ron suite 2288 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:55:13 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? I'm cycling back into list participation again and this one caught my eye, mostly because I was jogging to the Heirja CD this morning. Defector/deserter - why the first? I think that "defector" gives the action more of a values/ethical commentary to the action than deserter. "Deserters" remains open to a wide variety of reasons for leaving: fear, laziness, something better on TV. For me, "defector" implies leaving because those "petty wars" create a soul stirring reason for taking the hasta la vista. You might go back to it if things improved. That's what I was thinking until I tripped on the sidewalk. MG np: CRASH! The sound of my summer bachelorettehood coming to an end! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:36:14 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Does anyone have any Joni boots to patch? >I only love >> 70's Joni Music,so shows >> from the 70's are the only ones I'd be interested >> in...preferably with Joni >> talking to the audience on it. >I guess that means I won't be burning you a copy of >the mixing board back-up tapes from the "Dog Eat Dog" >sessions -- even though there's this really cool >argument, at the end of which Joni knocks Dolby and >Klein's heads together -- decides it sounds really >cool, samples it into the Fairlight CMI and uses it as >the congas patch on "Ethiopia"? ;-) Do these heads resonate nicely, or is there too much sloshing of the brains? Youth wants to know... - --Briar "Patch" Adams ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:13:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? Once again, a perfect choice of words on Ms. Mitchell's part. Not only is it much more evocative than "deserter" ... or even "objector" (which would still have been fresh in the newly post-Viet Nam political mindscape) ... it helps to tie Hejira together as a whole -- especially considering the "neutral cafe" of "Blue Motel Room", and it's attendant cold war imagery. Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 12:55:41 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? Don wrote: > Once again, a perfect choice of words on Ms. > Mitchell's part. Not only is it much more evocative > than "deserter" ... or even "objector" (which would > still have been fresh in the newly post-Viet Nam > political mindscape) ... it helps to tie Hejira > together as a whole -- especially considering the > "neutral cafe" of "Blue Motel Room", and it's > attendant cold war imagery. Joni tells us "Hejira" means "a leaving with honor" . My dictionary defines it as "separation, flight, a trip or journey, especially one made to escape a dangerous or undesirable situation." While the songs on the album all do seem to tie into this general theme, Joni never quite specifies or describes the situation she is leaving. Where are these "petty wars" occuring - with the music biz, with friends, with lovers, or all of the above? She is not deserting, she is defecting from an undesirable situation. One of the definitions of defection in the dictionary is "desertion", but an alternative definition is "an abandonment of loyalty." Yet, she has every intention of returning at some point, when "love sucks me back that way." She admits "it's funny how these old feelings hang around, you think they're gone, no, no, they just go underground, will you still love me when I get back to L.A. town?" In "Blue Motel Room" she seems to have gotten back some of her perspective. The hejira seems to have been good for her. I've also always wondered about the Amelia Earhart tie-in. I don't know much about Earhart's life but I do recall reading that she may also have been trying to find away to escape her fame and dilemmas in her personal life. While I will never dispute on any level that Hejira is a complete masterpiece, there is a sadness and a heaviness in it for me that has always made it somewhat hard for me to listen to. It is probably my least-played of Joni albums for that reason. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:13:34 EDT From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... I agree that Phoebe Snow's version of At Last is a real killer, but to me, Joni claimed ownership of the song (not that I wouldn't listen to Phoebe's). Billie Holiday didn't actually have a 'hit' with Comes Love - it was a track on one of Verve lp's. As for your list below of songs from BSN, I would guess that Joni was familiar with Billie's recordings of You're My Thrill, You've Changed, and Don't Worry 'Bout Me (although Sinatra did possibly the greatest version of that song). Don't Go To Strangers was a hit for Etta Jones(not James), who BTW, is a very underrated jazz singer, and I hope all of you check her out - Dinah Washington also did an excellent version of that. Sometime's I'm Happy was recorded as a wild scat vocal on "Sassy Swings The Tivoli", but was best known in jazz circles from Lester Young's recording. - Scott In a message dated Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:19:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << A couple weeks back I picked up a tape for a buck at the record store. It was the New York Rock & Soul Revue from a couple of years ago, with Donald Fagen, Michael McDonald, Phoebe Snow, Charles Brown, etc. I got it for the Steely Dan content, but was really blown away by the whole show! Phoebe Snow just tears up "At Last" on it, I mean she just wails! Which got me thinking about the definitive versions of the songs on Joni's BSN project. I know Etta James haad a hit with At Last, Lena Horne with Stormy Weather, Billie Holliday with Comes Love, Nat King Cole with Answer Me, My Love...were there definitive/hit versions of the other songs on the record? Specifically: You're My Thrill You've Changed Don't Go To Strangers Sometimes I'm Happy Don't Worry 'Bout Me I Wish I Were In Love Again Of course, we all know that Hole has the definitive version of BSN, or is it Jim Nabors? Or Leonard Nimoy? :~) Bob NP: Joe Jackson, "The In Crowd" >> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:30:11 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: Coyote - why a defector? >Joni tells us "Hejira" means "a leaving with honor" . My dictionary defines >it as "separation, flight, a trip or journey, especially one made to escape >a dangerous or undesirable situation." While the songs on the album all do >seem to tie into this general theme, Joni never quite specifies or describes >the situation she is leaving. Hejira is such a spiritual album to me I always think of the pilgrim's journey to a higher plane that leaves behind, as the mystics call it, "the world." All worldly things involve suffering, as Joni was definitely studying in her spiritual readings. I've never heard Joni describe Hejira in this way but that's what it conjures for me: the spiritual journey of detachment. >While I will never dispute on any level that Hejira is a complete >masterpiece, there is a sadness and a heaviness in it for me that has always >made it somewhat hard for me to listen to. It is probably my least-played >of Joni albums for that reason. > >Kakki I guess I understand why you would feel this way, Kakki, but to me the transcendent emotions are always a high every time I listen to it. "These are the clouds of Michaelangelo, muscular with gods and sungold!" Each sad emotion is coupled with a heroic perseverence that is her trademark. (Our Lady of Duality) Take care, sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:22:09 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) In a message dated 8/24/00 1:50:25 PM Pacific Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << While the songs on the album all do seem to tie into this general theme, Joni never quite specifies or describes the situation she is leaving. >> I am basing this comment on the order in which Jonis albums are listed in the lyrics section of the JMDL and assuming that that is in fact the order they were done in. According to that list (not counting Hits or Misses) Hejira was written after Hissing and before Don Juans RD. before Mingus and Dog Eat Dog. When I look at the works prior to Hissing I see MOA which is a live album and before that all the cool early albums well before she embarced on the radical trails that would come later. Hissing of course is very very different than anything before it. Hejira at the same time is different than anything AFTER it. Yet it is an album in tone and feel that is closer than what came before Hissing than after Hejira. (are you following this?) My guess is that she could be talking about relationships but if she is it is my guess that she is talking about that in conjunction with her music. Hejira sits at he crossroads of her career. The point at which she could never turn back. She doesnt return to this "mood" or style for another 7 albums in Night Ride Home. Furthermore, based on the impressions I picked up from DED she began with Hejira a future metamorphosis into the creation of the LAMM. For this reason I would have to vote for the reference to defection and "petty wars" referring to whatever relationship she was going south on but it was all part of her losing her bearings musically which was that place from which she derived her personal strength and identity. Lots of petty wars" in the music business. Nothing is worse than losing ones grip in their personal relationships AND their career at the same time in their life. I think (and have felt) that the reference to Amelia Erhardt is a direct reference to herself. here was a woman competing in what was known to be strictly the realm of men. In trying to set a universal record of achievement in this field she died. While Joni didnt die the refrence to Icarus is a closer analogy. In trying to reach the heavens her wings burned up and she crashed to earth. Pretty clear metaphor if you ask me. I am currently working on a chronology of this and will post it soon. It promises to be thought provoking. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:40:16 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... In a message dated 8/24/00 4:40:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Seulbzzaj@aol.com writes: << I agree that Phoebe Snow's version of At Last is a real killer, but to me, Joni claimed ownership of the song >> May I suggest you are suffering from the audio version of tunnel vision. Tunnel hearing? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:54:23 EDT From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... In a message dated Thu, 24 Aug 2000 5:40:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42 writes: << In a message dated 8/24/00 4:40:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Seulbzzaj@aol.com writes: << I agree that Phoebe Snow's version of At Last is a real killer, but to me, Joni claimed ownership of the song >> May I suggest you are suffering from the audio version of tunnel vision. Tunnel hearing? Paul I >> Sure, you can suggest it, but I don't you if you disagree with me about Phoebe's recording, or Joni's version or both? - Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:14:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: While we're on the subject of BSN... LOL!!! you are dangerous scott!!! wallyk > May I suggest you are suffering from the audio version of tunnel vision. Tunnel hearing? > > Paul I > >> > > Sure, you can suggest it, but I don't you if you disagree with me about Phoebe's recording, or Joni's version or both? > - Scott > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:31:08 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re Lyrics Unlurker from London wrote:- Hiya - lurker here, trying to unlurk. It's quite difficult to keep up because the topics change so fast. But the list is a fantastic bunch - and it's great to 'hear' people talking about Joni (I'm a teenager in London and nobody's really heard of her here). I love the references to 'wires in the walls' from Edith & The Kingpin and Man From Mars: "The wires in the walls are humming, a plane in the rain is humming" "I hear you in the water and the wiring in the walls" Welcome to the list from another UKer (in East Sussex). That's a really good spot. I had never noticed the repetition of that idea in those 2 songs. I think it's fairly unlike Joni to use the same phrase in more than one song. Can anyone think of any other examples? I just love it when teenagers get turned on to Joni. Regards Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:40:01 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) << I think (and have felt) that the reference to Amelia Erhardt is a direct reference to herself. here was a woman competing in what was known to be strictly the realm of men. >> I concur, Marcel, and I also think she was possibly comparing herself with Beethoven when she was telling her story on the '00 tour, which ended with him being remembered "for the worst piece of shit he ever wrote". I wonder (assuming this is true) which of her songs she was referring to...would probably either have to be BSN or BYT by default from the comment, but surely she wouldn't be referring to BSN as she re-recorded it for her latest project. That leaves BYT, which she also said she has a soft spot in her heart for...so maybe she was just telling this Beethoven story for the laugh? I doubt it... Bob NP: "For The Roses" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 16:09:06 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? Don Rowe wrote: > I guess that means I won't be burning you a copy of > the mixing board back-up tapes from the "Dog Eat Dog" > sessions -- even though there's this really cool > argument, at the end of which Joni knocks Dolby and > Klein's heads together -- decides it sounds really > cool, samples it into the Fairlight CMI and uses it as > the congas patch on "Ethiopia"? ;-) > > Don Rowe Yeah, the brutal part was that it took several takes to get the right recording levels and stuff..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 11:27:21 +1000 From: michaelb@coolgold.com.au Subject: Tape Tree Hi All Just wondering if there is a tape tree coming up? Haven't had time to read the digest for the last few months so I don't really know whats been happenin. If the CD Tree ever got of the ground I would be more than willing to do the Australian, New Zealand branch duties as I now have a burner. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 19:34:14 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... In a message dated 8/24/00 5:54:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Seulbzzaj writes: << I agree that Phoebe Snow's version of At Last is a real killer, but to me, Joni claimed ownership of the song >> May I suggest you are suffering from the audio version of tunnel vision. Tunnel hearing? Paul I >> Sure, you can suggest it, but I don't you if you disagree with me about Phoebe's recording, or Joni's version or both? - Scott >> I was suggesting that it was "tunnel vision" to think that Joni could claim ownership of a song like that. But since you asked, I think it's also beyond reality to think that Phoebe or anyone for that matter could claim the "definitive" version of a song with that much history. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:09:12 EDT From: "star sailor" Subject: no joni content last time i saw joni was about 20 years ago...i still live on blue, ladies of the c, court and spark, and miles of isles... off topic: i'm looking for some native american indian music...i dont even know where to begin. (please not buffy...i have a lot of her stuff already) ps - i enjoy reading the list...even if i'm just a quiet lurker. any suggestions? email private to me so this doesnt clog up your digest. thank you all. now playing: CAT POWER (i recommend it) love, M ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 17:56:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Re Lyrics > Unlurker from London wrote:- > > Hiya - lurker here, trying to unlurk. It's quite difficult to keep up > because the topics change so fast. But the list is a fantastic bunch - and > it's great to 'hear' people talking about Joni (I'm a teenager in London and > nobody's really heard of her here). > > I love the references to 'wires in the walls' from Edith & The Kingpin and > Man From Mars: > > "The wires in the walls are humming, a plane in the rain is humming" > "I hear you in the water and the wiring in the walls" 'The Jungle Line' has this line in it: Through i-bars & girders Through wires & pipes The mathematic circuits of The modern nights I don't think the line from 'Man From Mars' necessarily fits in but on THOSL Joni seems to be giving us a sense of something lurking beneath the surface when she refers to these wires and pipes & such. Wires twisting & winding through the walls, underground, across the landscape - somewhat akin to the snake in the grass on the cover or the poppy snake in the dressing room.... Another image that Joni uses more than once is the cactus tree. In the song of that name on STAS and in the line from 'Amelia' about the Cactus Tree Motel. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 20:58:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Treacy Subject: definitive... Jerry wrote it..."Bette's Skylark would be my definitive version." Applause, applause, sir. -Chris NP: "Losing Our Job"- The Roches ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:04:37 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector?; WARNING---Metaphorical content, LONG When Joni tells the Beethoven story / as a prelude to her BSN tour presentation of the amazing "Judgement of the Moon and Stars: Ludwig's Tune", I think she's saying that commercial pressure makes for bad Art. Considering that she feels so strongly that she IN NOT a commercial Product, she has shown a remarkable ability to make peace with her commercial successes. Take "You Turn Me On (I'm A Radio)". If you believe the folklore, and I do, a record company exec (David Geffen? or maybe her manager Elliot Roberts) urged Our Lady to write a hit, saying something like, "Write something that DJ's would like!" In one of the tape trees Joni says that her thought process was "Okay. What do DJ's like? Well, they like the radio." Full stop. So she wrote a radio song about a radio!! - ----- s k i p t h i s i f y o u w a n t !! metaphorical content ---- Okay, now that I've shown that the lineage of the song comes from the corruption of business, I'll talk about Buddhism for just a second. A key image in Buddhism is the lotus blossom. A lotus is a flower that floats in a pond. It's roots are in the soil, the filth, the silt, the dank dark corruption of the pond's bottom. The Buddhists took this simple flower and saw a metaphor for life- we are born of corruption yet we reach upwards, we strive, we extend ourselves towards the Light. Okay, enough. - ---- So the song "You Turn Me On (I'm A Radio)" is a ditty. So Joni says, "So what?" She worked on it, put some wonderful scat singing with it, did some beautiful intertwining interlude with Robben Ford, and lo, behold, the radio hit is now good enough for the Artist to open the "Miles Of Aisles" tour with it! She made her peace with it. Her story about commercial pressure get repeated, get quoted, and remembered forever. But her actions (like reworking I'm A Radio) go unnoticed, undiscussed. - ----- Back to "Judgement of the Moon and Stars: Ludwig's Tune". On the BSN tour, when she talked about commercial pressure making bad Art, I think maybe she holds her self exempt! (Can anyone point to a single song that is a pure ditty? Totally devoid of quality? I think not. There are many examples of naiveté in her lyrics but that's not the same thing.) Certainly she was not following commercial pressure when everyone told her to skip the Mingus project, that Mingus would alienate a lot of fans! Industry people told her it was a poisonous choice for her career. (Like when Paul left Artie.) She did Mingus because I think she's an Artist/Painter first, Artist/Songwriter second, Collaborator third, LA Celebrity/Party Animal fourth and a Commercial Product/Pop Star last. This Pop Star mantle is her cross to bear- her constant burden, and this year, she chose to remind us of that burden. Lama ps- Someone should write an essay called "What is metaphor?" as kind of a 100 level Lit class post. Marcel D? Deb T? Michael Y? I've been thinking about it but I'm committed to writing something a little different..... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:06:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Treacy Subject: lyrics Or, how about well expressed anger... "Is your silence that golden? Are you comfortable in it? Is it the key to your freedom, or is it the bars on your prison? Are you gagged by your ribbons? Are you really exclusive, or just miserly? You spend every sentence as if it was marked currency!" "Maybe I'm just kidding myself when I say I love you I don't know - Loving without trusting you get frostbite and sunstroke! I wish I felt nothing.. You pimp - laughing and strutting her to my chartered seat, your old off night backstreet." I love the way she says 'you pimp'. She's pissed! -Chris NP: More Roches (can't get enough these days!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 18:08:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? (md) Hissing of course is very very > different than anything before it. Hejira at the same time is different than > anything AFTER it. Yet it is an album in tone and feel that is closer than > what came before Hissing than after Hejira. (are you following this?) I am. I've always thought that 'Hejira' was less musically adventurous than Hissing or Don Juan or even Court and Spark and therefore less interesting. It is more sophisticated than the records that came before Hissing but aside from Jaco, I could never see what was particularly new or innovative about it. Also, although the poetry is lovely and full of wonderful insights, I think Hejira is a totally self-absorbed work. Joni on Joni. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing. Autobiography can be fascinating and with Joni it certainly is. But personally I'm glad she has progressed out of being strictly a confessional songwriter and broadened her horizons a bit. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:26:44 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: popular vs. passionate In a message dated 8/24/00 9:16:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << Considering that she feels so strongly that she IN NOT a commercial Product, she has shown a remarkable ability to make peace with her commercial successes. Take "You Turn Me On (I'm A Radio)". If you believe the folklore, and I do, a record company exec (David Geffen? or maybe her manager Elliot Roberts) urged Our Lady to write a hit, saying something like, "Write something that DJ's would like!" In one of the tape trees Joni says that her thought process was "Okay. What do DJ's like? Well, they like the radio." Full stop. So she wrote a radio song about a radio!! ----- s k i p t h i s i f y o u w a n t !! metaphorical content ---- Okay, now that I've shown that the lineage of the song comes from the corruption of business >> How is this a corruption of business. I can see this conversation starting with Joni telling the record company or Geffen she wants more money, or a bigger share of the pie or whatever. The response she gets is, "Fine. You want more money? Help us make more, too. Expand your audience. Write a HIT, a song that gets airplay. " There is no question that Joni's largest audience was for her most accessible albums -- Court and Spark mostly, but also For the Roses and Blue. When she returned to doing the music that pleased herself -- particularly DJRD, but also Hissing, Hejira and Mingus -- her audience stayed with her previous albums or went on to other music. There's nothing wrong with suggesting to a musician who wants to make money that he or she write songs that people will like and pay money for. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:29:46 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re:While we're on the subject of BSN... While I was shopping at Annie Sez a few weeks ago I heard Bonnie Raitt's version of At Last. She Rocks!!! I searched a few of her webpages to see if I could locate the album this song was on, but to no avail. Can any of you music sluts help me out here?? Bob Muller??? Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:32:28 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: At last...Stevie's Come Along! Scott wrote: "I agree that Phoebe Snow's version of At Last is a real killer, but to me, Joni claimed ownership of the song (not that I wouldn't listen to Phoebe's)" Not that I would call it definitive, but has abnyone heard Stevie Nicks do "At Last" from the stormy weather shows? WOW! That knocked my socks off. I really didn't think she had it in her...and live ,no less! -Chris. NP:"Sweet Forgiveness"-Bonnie Raitt ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:28:55 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: defector... Kakki wrote: "Joni tells us "Hejira" means "a leaving with honor" . My dictionary defines it as "separation, flight, a trip or journey, especially one made to escape a dangerous or undesirable situation." While the songs on the album all do seem to tie into this general theme, Joni never quite specifies or describes the situation she is leaving." IMOH, It's the whole ugly picture. Most of this was written while apparently driving back across the country, right around the time of the Rolling Thunder tour. Joni has mentioned several times that she felt as though both her emotional and physical self were feeling very abused at this point, and driving across country helped her get back to square 1. I do believe there was also that break-up matter with John Guerin... Just some ideas... -Chris NP:"Gamblin' Man"-Bonnie Raitt ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 21:44:14 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: joni sales/lagging audience Paul wrote:"When she returned to doing the music that pleased herself -- particularly DJRD, but also Hissing, Hejira and Mingus -- her audience stayed with her previous albums or went on to other music." I'm not hen-picking at your point, Paul, not in the least, but it's worth noting that except Mingus, all of these records sold gold within a reasonable amount of time...DJRD is the 'last gold seller' for Joni, and HOSL may even have sold platinum. I get annoyed when people talk (including our Joan,herself) about how Joni's audience just falgrantly turned their backs. They actually hung in for a fair bit before losing their patience all together with "Mingus". -Chris ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:16:47 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? Kakki, I also do not revisit HEJIRA that often but the main reason for me is that "Coyote" is performed so much more dynamically on S & L. BTW, one of the waiters at Judy's Chelsea sang "Coyote" with me tonight. It's always great to play that. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 23:56:59 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: Lahm's Coyote David wrote:" It's always great to play that." And it must really be great to play it so well! Your "Coyote" is so playfully done - easily my favorite on the "Jazz Takes..." effort. Bravo, David! I'll take this moment to say Thank You. -Chris NP:Reruns of "Upstairs, Downstairs" ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:38:52 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: FAvorite lyrics It's moments like these in my life that these lines run through my head: I've been sitting up waiting for my sugar to show I've been listening to the sirens and the radio She said she's be over three hours ago, I've been waiting for her car on the hill. She makes friends easy, she's not like me; I watch for judgment anxiously. Now where in the city can that girl be. I've been waiting for her car. Car on the hill. It always seems so righteous at the start when there's so much laughter, so much spark. When there's so much sweetness in the dark. Waiting for her car on the hill. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 00:39:43 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: FAvorite lyrics Climbin' climbin' Climbing the hiiiiiilllllllllllll. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:30:57 -0700 From: byron bentley Subject: At Last Joni Mitchell, Phoebe Snow, Stevie Nicks, Bonnie Raitt, Jimmy Scott and so many others have great versions of At Last. Each one of them brings new flavor to an amazing song. While none of the above takes on At Last should be missed, especially Phoebe Snow, At Last = Etta James. I'll admit though, I would kick any of the others if they got between me and Joni. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:59:14 -0700 From: "Ray and Cathy" Subject: re: favorite lyrics Hopeless romantic that I am, these words have always stuck with me: She dusts her table with his shirt And waves another day good-bye... Cathy in Oregon ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #343 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?