From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 342 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni Moment in Buffalo [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: BSN ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni Moment in Buffalo ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Covers Update -- Ronstadt Does "River" [Marksa973@aol.com] Re: Covers Update -- Ronstadt Does "River" [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: joni lyrics ["Lori R. Fye" ] joni on a bagel (SJC) [Michael Bird ] goodbye porkpie hat? [Michael Bird ] re: While we're on the subject of BSN... [Matthew Snyder ] re: NYT article ["c Karma" ] RE: joni lyrics ["Peg Eves" ] Far Out!!! ["Michael Paz" ] Re: Sweet Sucker Dance [RandyRemote ] Re: Lyrics [quiff@earthling.co.uk] BSN/Favourite words ["Stephen Epstein" ] Re: Lyrics [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Covers Update [FredNow@aol.com] Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? [Relayer211@aol.com] Tin Angel ["Blair Fraipont" ] A Joni day ["Eric Wilcox" ] Re: Tin Angel [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Covers Update [Scott and Jody ] Re: Coyote - why a defector? [Dflahm@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 02:59:17 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Joni Moment in Buffalo Hi y'all: I am in Buffalo on biz and wanted to share with you a Joni moment I had tonight. It's been a long day of meetings and coping with the violent onslaught of jet lag following a fourteen hour trip from LA yesterday. I still love United and will stand by them! However, undaunted, albeit exhausted, I joined my merry band of travelers for drinks and dinner at The Tap Room, a local eatery and watering hole dubbed by the owners as the "Home of the Blues." Well, they really had a band there tonight. Don't recall the name, but it was a fairly local blues band that was really quite good. After more than one Gray Geese, I did my usual tourist thing by asking if the band knew any Joni Mitchell. My request was accompanied by a twenty spot (love expense accounts) to get their attention. I usually get blank stares and the occasional BSN or CG. The lead singer, a willowy blond of Canadian descent with great cheekbones, asked who in the audience requested Joni. My pals wouldn't let me fade into the naugahyde (sp?) and pointed me out. They yelled out that my name was Coyote! Well, the band broke into a thundering rendition of Coyote - obviously rehearsed, which actually got people on their feet! They followed that up with Blue Motel, Amelia, BYT, C&S, and FMIP all done in a bluesy style, perfect for the band and the adoring audience. The lead singer joined us for a beer after the set and explained that Joni had an amazing impact on her career and was so happy someone had requested her music. She said her band regularly performed JM's music and had a blast with the set. So did I! A petite Joni fest in Buffalo. No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:12:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: BSN Kenny wrote: >Her choice of accompaniment with a large orchestra was >exactly that - "the lady's choice." (She's spoken of the >virtually "untapped" powers/qualitites of the synth and other >musical technologies.) Here's my 3 cents take on it all. There were numerous interviews and articles where Joni talked about doing this project. The gist I got was that she really did like doing the Stormy Weather benefit and might have thought, "hmmm, I've tackled most all the other genres and made them my own, maybe I'll try this one next." So how does she or anyone else begin to do that? Maybe by first getting one's feet wet by immersion in the "standards" and basic forms of the genre. In one of the interviews Joni related how she spent a few months going everyday to the same restaurant in Toronto where they would play the standards for her and listening, really listening to Billie, Ella, Lena, Sarah and the others for hours upon end. A few months later she goes to London and records the album. Many who were present there have written that she "nailed" most of the songs on the first take. So she did her homework well. Then, to step out a little further into her "new territory", she devised new renditions of her own original songs in the classic orchestral vein - A Case of You and Both Sides Now. By most all accounts, those new versions were pretty widely acclaimed as beautifully arranged and rendered. That accomplished, she went on to subject a few more of her original songs to the orchestral treatment during her live concert tour this last spring - For The Roses, Hejira, Judgement of the Moon and Stars and Be Cool. I think that most all of the JMDL world who heard these at the shows were pretty amazed and blown away by them. They were just flat out gorgeous and awesome and pretty hard to pick apart, IMO. So I think she is succeeding in this latest movement into her own form of neo-classicism. I think one also has to consider that it is a process and appreciate that she seems to be progressing very swiftly in it, all things considered. I'll even go out on a limb and predict that she may just knock our socks off with *new* original material in this style in the next few years. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:23:33 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni Moment in Buffalo Coyote wrote: >The lead singer joined us for a beer after the set and explained that Joni >had an amazing impact on her career and was so happy someone had requested >her music. She said her band regularly performed JM's music and had a blast >with the set. So did I! A petite Joni fest in Buffalo. Now why does this never happen in New Zealand? If I was to ask a band to play Joni, they'd stare at me with a blank expression and say "Who?" I've said it once, and I'll say it again, I live in a land of philistines! Seriously, what a great story! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 07:30:33 EDT From: Marksa973@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Update -- Ronstadt Does "River" Linda Ronstadt will be covering "River" on her upcoming Christmas album, due in the stores on October 10. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:56:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Update -- Ronstadt Does "River" <> Boy, I'll bet that'll be a great one - maybe she can nudge Dianne Reeves out of first place on the "Best Cover of 'River' Competition"! :~) Thanks for the info! Bob NP: Loggins & Messina, "Time to Space" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:54:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: joni lyrics Kevin wrote: > One of my favorite passages: > > "....you go down to the pick-up station craving > warmth and beauty. You settle for less than > fascination, a few drinks later you're not so > choosy. When the closing lights strip off the > shadows on this strange new flesh you found, > Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf you > hurry, to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay > down an impression and your loneliness..." It's nothing less than great, and the tempo of Joni's delivery makes it all the more perfectly desperate ... just like the feeling a lonely soul has in a bar, trying to find someone, anyone to spend the night with before closing. Lori (who is glad those days are over) in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:20:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: joni on a bagel (SJC) A tiny Joni Moment: At the deli counter this morning, I ordered my usual toasted whole wheat bagel with butter. The bagel got toasted and sliced by the woman behind the counter, who then turned to me with a huge butter knife in her hand, and said, "You say you want butta on da bagel?" Yes, I replied. "You want butta on both sides now?" Yes, I want my butter on both sides now, I sang, and wafted out of the deli on a cloud of swelling orchestra strings. Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:23:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: goodbye porkpie hat? Just curious, Bob, how/why Mingus' GPPH merits inclusion on a covers CD ... I don't know enough about the history of the song, except that it was also known as the "Theme for Lester Young" and was recorded a number of times by Mingus before Joni came along . . . just wondering. Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:23:30 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: re: While we're on the subject of BSN... >Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 23:08:02 EDT >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >Subject: While we're on the subject of BSN... > >Which got me thinking about the definitive versions of the songs on Joni's >BSN project. I know Etta James haad a hit with At Last, Lena Horne with >Stormy Weather, Billie Holliday with Comes Love, Nat King Cole with Answer >Me, My Love...were there definitive/hit versions of the other songs on the >record? > >Specifically: > >You're My Thrill >You've Changed >Don't Go To Strangers >Sometimes I'm Happy It may not be regarded as "definitive" for most people (particularly vocal fans), but I first became familiar with "Sometimes I'm Happy" from a trio version the saxophonist Lester Young recorded in 1946 with Nat Cole on piano and Buddy Rich on drums. An ethereal, hypnotic performance, as are most of Prez's ballad renderings. Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 08:16:18 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Joni at B&R Mark wrote: >If you do get a chance to get it, the 1980 show is the one you want. >Joni performed three times at B&R: 1978 solo, 1979 with the Shadows >and Light band and 1980 with Herbie and BB. Herbie also backed her up in '78. See my photo at: http://members.aol.com/tinkerjoni/joni2.gif - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:10:14 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: NYT article "Light weight" is an understatement to describe this article. I don't think the Times will offer a true review of the show unless it's hung in a NY gallery, though. The sub head on the article was "Arts Abroad" which seemed to give the editors license to quote the Toronto article liberally without the Times offering any critical comment of its own. I'm glad that the writer was able to wrangle a telephone interview with Joni, it's always wonderful to read any new insights into her creative processes. What IS significant, though is the fact that the article appeared on the first page of the Arts section (on a Tuesday, perhaps a Friday would have been even better). The photo of Joni was taken at the press unveiling prior to the public opening. It was rumored that someone from the Times was there to report on the event, but it was never substantiated. A subsequent phone call I made to the Times in early July netted the response that no "staff" arts reporters were dispatched to the opening, but that it was possible that a freelance team might have attended. Let's hope that given the interest this article will generate, the Times will take an even closer look. I admit I don't know much about the politics, positioning and marketing of contemporary art, but I know what I like. Does that make ME a dilletante? I'm in good company then. Hell, I have trouble remembering that O'Keeffe has two Fs but her canvasses score themselves into my retinas. Let's hope that art fans and critics can get over Joni's gold records and her big pink house. CC "Those cannibals of shuck and jive, they'll eat a working girl like her alive." -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:49:28 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: joni lyrics All, I love this lyric thread. I check in on my mail throughout my workday and it's such a beautifel diversion to be reading Joni expression as she sings along in my head as I read. She sings real good in my head. One of my favorite Joni lyrics: ...No one knows You can never get that close Guesses at most Guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching. Guesses based on what each set of time and change is touching. Damn!! She is soooo golden!! Joni Mitchell's science of the heart! OK. Back to work Thanks Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Lori > R. Fye > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 9:55 AM > To: joni@smoe.org > Cc: zaide912@webtv.net > Subject: Re: joni lyrics > > > Kevin wrote: > > > One of my favorite passages: > > > > "....you go down to the pick-up station craving > > warmth and beauty. You settle for less than > > fascination, a few drinks later you're not so > > choosy. When the closing lights strip off the > > shadows on this strange new flesh you found, > > Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf you > > hurry, to the blackness, and the blankets, to lay > > down an impression and your loneliness..." > > It's nothing less than great, and the tempo of Joni's > delivery makes it all the more perfectly desperate ... > just like the feeling a lonely soul has in a bar, > trying to find someone, anyone to spend the night with > before closing. > > Lori (who is glad those days are over) > in DC > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! > http://mail.yahoo.com/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 12:34:52 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Far Out!!! Hi Rick- What a fantastic story! I love that! Thanks for relaying to us as well. What are the odds of a band knowing that much Joni. Send them to New Orleans and also Plum Island and Topsfield. Paz Rick wrote: "I am in Buffalo on biz and wanted to share with you a Joni moment I had tonight. It's been a long day of meetings and coping with the violent onslaught of jet lag following a fourteen hour trip from LA yesterday. I still love United and will stand by them! However, undaunted, albeit exhausted, I joined my merry band of travelers for drinks and dinner at The Tap Room, a local eatery and watering hole dubbed by the owners as the "Home of the Blues." Well, they really had a band there tonight. Don't recall the name, but it was a fairly local blues band that was really quite good. After more than one Gray Geese, I did my usual tourist thing by asking if the band knew any Joni Mitchell. My request was accompanied by a twenty spot (love expense accounts) to get their attention. I usually get blank stares and the occasional BSN or CG. The lead singer, a willowy blond of Canadian descent with great cheekbones, asked who in the audience requested Joni. My pals wouldn't let me fade into the naugahyde (sp?) and pointed me out. They yelled out that my name was Coyote! Well, the band broke into a thundering rendition of Coyote - obviously rehearsed, which actually got people on their feet! They followed that up with Blue Motel, Amelia, BYT, C&S, and FMIP all done in a bluesy style, perfect for the band and the adoring audience. The lead singer joined us for a beer after the set and explained that Joni had an amazing impact on her career and was so happy someone had requested her music. She said her band regularly performed JM's music and had a blast with the set. So did I! A petite Joni fest in Buffalo." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 11:47:07 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Sweet Sucker Dance Mark Domyancich wrote: > Julius- > > If you do get a chance to get it, the 1980 show is the one you want. > Joni performed three times at B&R: 1978 solo, 1979 with the Shadows > and Light band and 1980 with Herbie and BB. > And a solo set.... FYI : Joni's 1980 B&R performances: 1 solo set w/acoustic guitar 1 song w/Herbie 2 songs with BB King and band and they were all at separate times during the day. All the same day to my best recollection..and I think it was Sat. RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:31:03 +0100 (GMT+01:00) From: quiff@earthling.co.uk Subject: Re: Lyrics - --3306456.967059063761.JavaMail.nobody@www-a20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hiya - lurker here, trying to unlurk. It's quite difficult to keep up because the topics change so fast. But the list is a fantastic bunch - and it's great to 'hear' people talking about Joni (I'm a teenager in London and nobody's really heard of her here). I love the references to 'wires in the walls' from Edith & The Kingpin and Man From Mars: "The wires in the walls are humming, a plane in the rain is humming" "I hear you in the water and the wiring in the walls" I don't know what it is about them, but they send ice down my spine. Then there's most of Court & Spark ("dancing up the river") and The Jungle Line. Your email address says a lot about you. Express yourself @ another.com http://another.com/jump.jsp?destDesc=another.com/login.jsp?sig=393 - --3306456.967059063761.JavaMail.nobody@www-a20-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 15:46:23 -0400 From: "Stephen Epstein" Subject: BSN/Favourite words Re: all the lengthy chat from our musician friend 'bout BSN: "All this talk about holiness now It must be the start of the latest style........" IMHO, Ms. Mitchell deserves high accolades for such a noble effort. 20 years from now, others will be covering the same songs- some better than both the originals and Joni's versions, some not. Big deal! Crank it up loudly, experience the lushness of the production, and enjoy her fine, fine voice- better than ever. Ms. Mitchell has proven time and time again that she is a jazz musician and singer- not only on her own releases, but as a vocalist on many accomplished jazz artists releases. Favourite lyrics? Since we are talking BSN how about: "Oh, you are in my blood like holy wine You taste so bitter and so sweet Oh I could drink a case of you And I would still be on my feet I would still be on my feet" Perhaps my favourite love song of all time Regards, all- Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:57:53 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Lyrics <> Welcome, lurker! Sometimes threads move quick and sometimes they linger around for weeks like a bad relative! So feel free to jump in whenever, your thoughts will always be great to hear! Bob NP: Marshall Tucker Band, "Fly Eagle Fly" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 19:52:23 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Update In a message dated 8/23/00 2:16:22 AM, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: >Speaking of Fred,he also is sharing one of his own Joni covers, "Michael >From Mountains" with us on this Volume...those of you you have Fred's CD "Songs >of My Youth, Volume 1" KNOW already that it is EXCELLENT. I heard it today >for the first time (and the second and the third) and was very moved by the >sheer beauty of it. Fred combines the percussive power of the piano with >melodicism, always using precisely the right feel, crafting a real gem >of a tribute to songs that he (and we all) know by heart, yet he places his >unique stamp on them all - truly a remarkable effort. > >I highly suggest you check out this disc if you don't have it! Call BR-549 >or send a message to Fred @ FredNow@aol.com > >PS: Fred is not shuffling any advertising budget to me, I just happen to >think this is a gorgeous record and am also delighted that he calls it >Volume 1 as it means more will be forthcoming! Bob, wow and double wow, man ... thanks for the iridescently glowing compliments, I'm grateful. And, yes, I hope to continue the series, opportunity permitting. I've already got Volume 2 sketched out on paper. By the way, what's "BR-549"? Thanks again, Fred ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:14:28 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs to trade? Does anyone have any Joni bootlegs on tape or CD that they are willing to trade?Do these bootlegs even exist?I only love 70's Joni Music,so shows from the 70's are the only ones I'd be interested in...preferably with Joni talking to the audience on it. Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:29:09 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Tin Angel Hi there everyone, this is blair fraipont from good old southern delaware... with another question for you... (that is all that i seem to post, so far). Does anyone know why Paul Rothchild only produced the song "tin angel" on the Clouds album? I know he was a hot item at that moment.. producing the Doors's albums and Love? But, i figured there are several possilbilities.. but i didnt know if any of you "joniphiles" knew the right answer.. I guess i am just interested in odd stories in the music biz. Stories sort of like when Leonard Cohen was producing the "death of a ladies man" album in 1977 and how producer, Phil Spector brought in a gun to the studio and screamed to Leaornard.. how much he loved him. Thanks alot blair bliggity NP:Archie Shepp "Rufus (swung his face at last to the wind, then his neck snapped)" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:28:39 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: A Joni day A few weeks back we were talking about "Joni moments." Well, today was certainly a Joni day. Please bear with me-- I'm not meaning for this to get WAY too personal. But you are all great listeners and I can't pass up an opportunity to tell Joni fans how she's touched me today. I've been through a lot lately. I jsut moved into my first apartment here in Madison, Wisconsin. I was in my hometown for the summer-- and over the course of that time I broke up with my boyfriend of 3+ years. But, I'm sure lots of you know how high school relationships go after you go off to college. We kept it up for a year-- then it just kinda faded away. We were always friends... It was an amicable breakup. I came back to this town to be re-born. A new beginning. A fresh start. No one is in this town yet. I moved in a bit early. I had to get away. I'm quite alone. Lonely. So I went on down to the CD store and picked up two more Joni CDs-- I'm slowly achieving a complete colelction. I bought "For the Roses" and "Mingus" for a bit of contrast. I love them both-- but the former peaked my interest. "See you sometime" first caught my ears: "O.K. hang up the phone It hurts But something survives Though its undermined I'd still like to see you sometime." My ex told me yesterday that He didn't want to talk to me anymore. He's too emotionally attached still-- talking to me was making him physically ill. I can't imagine not having him in my life in some way. It'll just take time. I;d really like to see him... just sometime in the future. Then there's "Judgement of the Moon and Stars (Ludwig's Tune)": "Your solitary Path Draw yourself a bath Think what you'd like to have For supper Or take a walk A park A bridge A tree A river" That's what I did all day today. I walked. Thought. Wrote a bit in my journal. Those are two of the biggest ones that struck me. But this whole album is a masterpiece. A relationship ends. You're left behind-- trying to figure out why. Trying to reconcile your own feelings. And ultimately just accepting the fact that you're alone now. And then you've got to move on again... somehow. The sound of Joni's voice-- her "ooh"s and "aah"s in the instrumental bits... It just permeated my head and spun around there just whispering, "I understand." I can't imagine a better choice for a new Joni CD at this point. Perfection. And that's my Joni day. Thanks for listening. eric ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:34:26 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Tin Angel That Shepp album is great. It's called "Four for Trane" and came out on Impulse about 1964. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:36:33 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of BSN... No one, I think, has mentioned the Sinatra version of "I Wish I Were in Love Again" from his SONGS FOR SWINGIN' LOVERS album of c.1957 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:51:50 -0500 From: Scott and Jody Subject: Re: Covers Update Bob Wrote: > Speaking of Fred,he also is sharing one of his own Joni covers, "Michael From > Mountains" with us on this Volume...those of you you have Fred's CD "Songs of > My Youth, Volume 1" KNOW already that it is EXCELLENT. > Yes, I've mentioned this before as well. Fred's rendition of "Michael From Mountains" is Incredible!!! You can feel the rain coming down!!! I urge all of you to pick up this wonderful CD. > Jody, please stuff Fred in a duffle bag and bring him to Ashara's!! > I just may be able to do that, Fred willing. His hair is considerably shorter and less puffy than on the cover. His hair alone would have taken up one suitcase :~) Fred - Back then my bass playin' brother bought a short haired wig in order to get a job at a gas station!!! jody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 01:53:02 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Coyote - why a defector? Right off the top of my head, I feel that "defector" more than "deserter" implies that there exist other people who are "loyal" to the "petty wars." LAHM ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #342 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?