From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #334 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 334 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: "Down To You" (C&S) [john low ] Joni Tribute show down under [Gerald McNamara ] Re: Hejira - why a defector? [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Defector [RobSher50@aol.com] Re: Joni Tribute show down under [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Studio albums ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? ["Helen M. Adc] Re: Hinton the Hack [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Fwd: Re: Shorter & Brecker [Susan McNamara ] Covers Questions [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Fwd: Hejira - why a defector? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? [Jerry Notaro ] a defector from the petty wars [Michael Bird ] song development ["Christopher J. Treacy" ] Re: your next Joni ["c Karma" ] [none] ["c Karma" ] politics alert - Joni at Democratic event [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: a defector from the petty wars [Kenny Grant ] Search for a Joni favorite movie ["Joni Fan" ] joni CDs for $7.99! [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Mendel things [JRMCo1@aol.com] Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? [Les Irvin ] Re: Hejira - why a defector? [dsk ] Re: "Down To You" (C&S)/clavinet [FredNow@aol.com] Fwd: Re: Hejira - why a defector? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Hinton the Hack ["Paul Pennington" ] Cleveland anyone?? ["cassy" ] Hinton etc [Dmascall@aol.com] Re: Hinton etc [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Hejira - why a defector? ["Mark or Travis" ] thick or slick? ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: thick or slick? [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Both Sides Now [Michael Paz ] "no tongue and the bell" [Relayer211@aol.com] updated cover section and Joni publicity photo [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Re: "no tongue and the bell" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Picking Joni Albums [Michael Paz ] Hejira Live [Michael Paz ] Go Forth [Michael Paz ] Re: Search for a Joni favorite movie [Gellerray@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:14:48 +1000 From: john low Subject: Re: "Down To You" (C&S) Original message from: SCJoniGuy@aol.com >I think it's absolutely beautiful...the "medallion" piece of C&S. I think her >first symphony was "Judgement of the Moon and Stars", "Down to You" was her >second symphony, and of course she climaxed the symphony mode with "Paprika >Plains". A lovely way to put it, Bob. >John, you must have picked up on some synchronicity...I had posted on a cover >of Down to You earlier, I'm guessing you hadn't seen it yet? I didn’t see your post about Colosseum’s version of “Down To You” until after I posted mine. Yes, a case of true syncronicity! Colosseum had ex- Graham Bond Organisation sax player, Dick Heckstall-Smith, in its line-up if I remember correctly – and singer Chris Farlowe. It sounds like a pretty interesting version, though quite different to and (I would guess) nowhere near as beautiful as Joni’s. >And I had dinner with Ashara last night and she was just GUSHING about how >wonderful the Aussie listers are, especially you! So your ears were burning >(a Southern expression). Ashara is very kind. What a fine lady! It was about this time last year, I think, that we all (Ange, Nicholas, myself, Ashara and assorted younger ones) met at the Queen Victoria Building in the centre of Sydney and raved on about Joni Mitchell and a heap of other things. It was a brief but memorable time – our own little Joni-fest - and we all got one of those famous HUGS!! It’s hard to believe that a whole year has gone by. John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 7:39:43 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: Joni Tribute show down under One of Australia's leading vocalists, Christine Sullivan, is putting on a "Tribute To Joni" show over 2 nights at a nightclub here in Melbourne this weekend. She's released around half a dozen albums and a few of Joni's songs get a look in - I'm not sure if any have found their way to Bob M's collections yet. Christine Sullivan is certainly a big fan of Joni's. She has a very classy jazz band accompanying her. Don't know if I'll make it to either show, yet. (I just paid $146 for 2 Lou Reed tickets today, so my entertainment budget is already blown). You can read about Christine Sullivan, her Joni tribute show, and her thoughts on her idol at: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/20000815/A3951-2000Aug14.html -Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 04:28:42 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira - why a defector? Mark writes: << Why does Joni refer to herself as a '*defector* from the petty wars that shellshock love away?... To me the word defector implies leaving one side to join the other>> Interesting question, Mark. At the end of the day, who knows but Joan? But the way I see it, this song's character is seeking asylum away from some "suppressive" love-state. Joni uses "petty wars" as a symbol for the havoc that condition often wreaks on a relationship. It's the "possessive coupling" that really starts to cramp our heroine's free expression, man. So she flees, or "defects," rather than be "bound and tied" - --regaining her individual belief system and identity ("I see something of myself in everyone") in the process. "Refugee" would be apropos of a non-combatant fleeing war, petty or otherwise, but Joni used that word up on "Rainy Night House." ;-) In any case, I love the song. Thanks for queuing it up, Mark - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 07:17:03 EDT From: RobSher50@aol.com Subject: Re: Defector Hi, My take on this is that she is trying to move to a place in her life where she is able to give and receive love from others. Previously, she used to fall into the pattern of letting those petty wars alienate her from he person she was trying to get close to. Now she considers herself a "defector" because she has decided to try a different path, a path of lesser resistance. Heijera is a song of deep introspection, and my thoughts on this is that she has decided to make a major change in her life concerning the "petty wars" she used to be a part of. My favorite lyric in this song is: "There's comfort in melancholy... When there's no need to explain... It's just as natural as the weather In these moody skies today..." Those lines are like a balm to my soul. I can't tell how many times that phrase has gotten me through rough times. It gives us permission to be sad and move on with our lives. Great topic!! Thanks for starting this thread Mark!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 07:25:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute show down under << She's released around half a dozen albums and a few of Joni's songs get a look in - I'm not sure if any have found their way to Bob M's collections yet. >> This IS very exciting news, Ger...I'd never heard of her prior to your post! I'll do some investigating and may need to reach out to my pals down under for assistance! ;~) One more thing: You referred to the Covers as "my" collection, but it belongs to us all! Someday I'll list the names of all those who have contributed thus far around the world and it will astound you! That was the whole point of the project, to show what we can accomplish as a group! Had I tackled this thing by myself, it's probably be about 3 CD's so far! Bob, also hoping that the Tribute show is recorded, either professionally or by stealth! ;~) NP: Ry Cooder, "Little Sister" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:06:47 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Studio albums We've been debating the pros and cons of studio albums and it brought to mind one of my favourite documentaries, which is VH1's (I think) look at the making of the "Rumours" album by Fleetwood Mac. One of the things that fascinates me is the way in which the tracks are laid down. Lindsay Buckingham and the producer work their way through each track, playing each instrument alone, then slowly bringing up the volume on the rest of the track, so you can hear how they all blend together. Which incidentally shows LB's brilliance when you hear 4 different lead guitar tracks on one song! This would be absolutely wonderful to do with a Joni album, but I can't decide which one would be best? Obviously the more "acoustic" sounding albums like Blue and Hejira would be less revealing, but it would be incredible to hear DJRD or C&S. Any other thoughts? Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:20:23 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? Steve wrote: >And no I dont know Brian Hinton personally, or am I his secret press agent. >I just feel all this flame throwing in his direction is pretty negative >Surely as Jonilovers we can direct our ire in a more positive direction. >Like some of the Music Press Editors for lack of Joni coverage. I too sometimes feel like Brian Hinton gets a rough deal here. I thoroughly enjoyed his book - I literally "pounced" on it, when I saw it in Tower Records when I was on holiday in LA a couple of years ago. It was the first time I'd ever seen anything on Joni - and a long time before I got "webbed". OK, there were a few errors and discrepancies, but we've all been guilty of having erroneous Joni facts at one time or another (at least I know I have)! People have said he should have used us, ie. the JMDL, but the publication date of the book is 1996, and since this discussion list didn't start until August 1996 I'm assuming this resource wasn't available? I'm not sure exactly when Wally's website was started, but I'm assuming the facts contained there weren't as plentiful then as they are now? Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:54:53 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Hinton the Hack In a message dated 8/16/00 8:25:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << OK, there were a few errors and discrepancies, but we've all been guilty of having erroneous Joni facts at one time or another (at least I know I have)! >> There is a HUGE difference between posting misinformation on a list such as this and publishing it in a book without adequtely researching it. Having read the list of errors and miscalculations Hinton has published, I consider it a hack job. But then as a professional writer and editor, I am sure I am less tolerant of such things than you seem to be, and probably less tolerant than most people. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:58:31 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: Shorter & Brecker ><< Trivia: Does anyone remember Joni's reaction to that experience? :-) >> > >Wasn't it that she commented on his AWFUL breath? > >Bob YES!! Bobby was in dire need of altoids! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:03:29 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Covers Questions <> Peg, please refer to the JMDL.com site (Joni Undercover) to see what we've got and what we need... That's the main reason that I spent literally hours compiling all the data, which I update every day, so I wouldn't have to field so many questions about what's on what volume, what covers are we looking for, and which ones do we have... Thanks for the interest! Go see what we need, and happy hunting! :~) Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Traces Of The Western Slopes" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 09:10:04 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Hejira - why a defector? >But in the >context of 'Coyote', I have to wonder why she chose that particular >word. Because it sounded better? Maybe deserter sounded too cowardly >and not in keeping with her theme of 'running away with honor'. But >what would she be defecting to? > >Any thoughts out there? > >Mark in Seattle I know you meant Hejira instead of Coyote. defect - def 3) to desert a cause, country, etc., especially in order to adopt another. defector - a person who defects from a cause, country, etc. The theme running through Hejira (the album) as a whole is a journey of transcendence, and I think this word fits better than deserter because deserter describes more of a cowardly escape where defector describes someone searching for a better life. The Cold War allusions are great for the time but when playing Blue Motel Room the imagery is a little dated. That's probably what makes it the weakest song on the album in my opinion (of course saying that doesn't mean that it's not a great song!). Lately when I play it I leave out the "you've got Joni" verse because it's a little too cutesy. But what about the line: "Palm trees in the porch light like thick black cellophane." what a wizard. sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:38:02 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? Steve wrote: > > > Does any body seriously think he's interseted enough to lurk on our list. If he had one iota of credibility as an author he would be here every day to correct the mistakes in his book. It is the most complete collection of Jonimobilia and information on the planet, and it is free. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:45:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: a defector from the petty wars Webster's: de-fec-tor (di fek'tuhr) n. 1. a person who defects from a cause or country. [1655-65; < L defector renegade, rebel = defec- (var. s. of deficere to become disaffected, revolt, lit., to fail; see DEFICIENT) + -tor - TOR] If Joni used the word literally, then she wouldn't necessarily have to defect TO anything, just fall away from it -- "defect" defined by Webster's as "to desert a cause or country." However I like looking at that line with the word's origins in mind -- not just as a passive desertion but more as an active rebellion/revolt. Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:39:40 -0400 From: "Christopher J. Treacy" Subject: song development In the long run I would agree with Don. That if you have an understanding of the origins of a piece of music, you can understand why it's preformed that way, where it's emerged from, etc. I think you also get to see how an artist grows in different forums... I would have to say, IMHO, that this is quite true. A perfect example lies in the way that Joni's earlier is altered in it's live performance depending on the sound of the release she touring in support of...the '83 renditions stick out in my mind - "Banquet" in particular, not to mention "Cotton Ave." NP: "Black Moses" LP - Isaac Hayes ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:01:16 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: Re: your next Joni Two quotes to consider as possible advice: "I am not some stone commission like a statue in a park. I am flesh and blood and vision, I am howling in the dark." and... "Don't think, just dance." Personally, I don't think an academic approach to choosing and experiencing art necessarily adds to the experience. Have fun, it's all good. CC ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:19:13 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: [none] Bob, I'll go with you on the symphonic count although students of musical forms will say that none are that. I guess then, that we can say that Joni's written some opera too: "Shadows and Light" and "Job's Sad Song", particularly the latter. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:20:40 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: politics alert - Joni at Democratic event After President Clinton's speech at the Democratic National Convention on Monday, Lew Wasserman was presented with an award at the DNC Finance Committee's Presidential Dinner, attended by the Clintons and Joni Mitchell. The whole story is at <> Joni is mentioned in the last sentence, which reads, "Guests included Jack Valenti, Joni Mitchell, Faith Ford, Noah Wyle and Alfre Woodard." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:57:14 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: a defector from the petty wars Hey Micheal, Webster's on-line (www.m-w.com) gives a "slightly" different defnition: Main Entry: 2de·fect Pronunciation: di-'fekt Function: intransitive verb Etymology: Latin defectus, past participle of deficere Date: 1596 1 : to forsake one cause, party, or nation for another often because of a change in ideology 2 : to leave one situation (as a job) often to go over to a rival - de·fec·tor /-'fek-t&r/ noun Defininition #2 is more in keeping with the line "defector from the petty wars" and with Joni's defitinition of Hejira itself, which, when I last looked it up (20 years ago?) meant, "a flight, as in from danger," but which Joni defines as "an honorable retreat," or "leaving the dream, no blame" I too like actual word origins, and to be truthful, Joni has, over the years, enhanced my own vocubulary. I recall reaching for the dictionary several times when new albums were released or I was going backwards from Hejira (my starting point) to STAS. But overall, while specific examples elude me at the moment, a good part of her expertise as a wordsmith is based on poetic license. Best, -Kenny Michael Bird wrote: > Webster's: > > de-fec-tor (di fek'tuhr) n. > 1. a person who defects from a cause or > country. > [1655-65; < L defector renegade, rebel = defec- > (var. s. of deficere to become disaffected, > revolt, lit., to fail; see DEFICIENT) + -tor - > TOR] > > If Joni used the word literally, then she wouldn't necessarily have to defect TO anything, just fall away from it -- "defect" defined by Webster's as "to desert a cause or country." > > However I like looking at that line with the word's origins in mind -- not just as a passive desertion but more as an active rebellion/revolt. > > Nickel Chief > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 16:57:12 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Search for a Joni favorite movie I read in one of the JMDL articles about "The Story of Three Loves" (circa 1953), one of Joni's favorite movies. She was humming the entire melody of it in the interview. Got me curious about the movie. I see from eonline.com that it is not available on video, but occasionally comes on TV. So folks, does anyone have this on videotape from one of their TV viewings? Joni probably does. I should just call her up. hmmmm. Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:32:59 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: joni CDs for $7.99! I got an e-mail from Amazon.com today announcing their Classic Rock Sale. Just in time for new Joni fans on the list and anyone else who has missing Joni CDs (or other classic CDs), the following are all available for $7.99: Blue, Ladies of the Canyon, Hejira, Hissing, For the Roses, Clouds, Song for a Seagull, Court and Spark, and Mingus Go to <> for details and a complete listing of other artists on sale! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:37:16 EDT From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Mendel things HanknBG@aol.com writes: << I'm waiting too....my credit card has been billed..but they said it would be 4-6 weeks....oh please oh please hurry....>> I don't know if this information is directly related to the Mendel shipping delays, but it casts some light on backstage goings on with Joni's catalogue: <> - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:16:03 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? At 06:20 AM 8/16/2000, Helen M. Adcock wrote: >People have said he should have used us, ie. the JMDL, but the publication >date of the book is 1996, and since this discussion list didn't start until >August 1996 I'm assuming this resource wasn't available? I remember the book coming out at about the same time the discussion list started. So, no, the JMDL resource wasn't available to him at the time. I also remember discussing the book with Wally during that time and he was also unaware who Hinton was. So, if Brian did happen to use jonimitchell.com as a resource - it was without Wally's knowledge. Les NP: Alan Lomax's "Southern Journey Volume 1" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:29:00 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? Les Irvin wrote: > At 06:20 AM 8/16/2000, Helen M. Adcock wrote: > >People have said he should have used us, ie. the JMDL, but the publication > >date of the book is 1996, and since this discussion list didn't start until > >August 1996 I'm assuming this resource wasn't available? > > I remember the book coming out at about the same time the discussion list > started. So, no, the JMDL resource wasn't available to him at the time. I > also remember discussing the book with Wally during that time and he was > also unaware who Hinton was. So, if Brian did happen to use > jonimitchell.com as a resource - it was without Wally's knowledge. But couldn't he have used to site to correct the mistakes in the new edition? Jerry np: Rod MacDonald - Highway to Nowhere ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 12:29:26 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? At 12:29 PM 8/16/2000, Jerry Notaro wrote: >But couldn't he have used to site to correct the mistakes in the new edition? Indeed... he could have used both sites and the JMDL archives. His loss! Les ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:32:55 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: an introduction of sorts Cristen wrote:- > Hearing "A Case of You", by far my favorite song, I find tears rising to the surface every now and then. I can't explain it... I suppose all of you will understand. Wow! What is it about that song? If you really want to make the tears flow, Cristen, try listening to Joni's latest version on her "Both Sides Now" album. I've been listening to the Diana Krall version from the tribute concert recently and even that affects me in the same way. Only Joni could write a song like that and it's great to think it's still knocking out new fans. Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:29:53 -0400 From: Cristen Subject: Re: joni CDs for $7.99! At 01:32 PM 08/16/2000 -0400, Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: >I got an e-mail from Amazon.com today announcing their Classic Rock Sale. >Just in time for new Joni fans on the list and anyone else who has missing >Joni CDs (or other classic CDs), the following are all available for $7.99: > >Blue, Ladies of the Canyon, Hejira, Hissing, For the Roses, Clouds, Song for >a Seagull, Court and Spark, and Mingus In the future when the credit card debt company comes knocking at my door, I am going to point them at Jeff Bezos and the amazon.com crew. :) It seems I've spent at least $500 there this year between regular books and school books. I mean who obvious is it there they're trying to get me and me alone to buy... by selling Don Henley, R.E.M, Bon Jovi and Joni cd's for $7.99. For those of you who might have been wondering what my choice for my next cd would be I think I'm going to with: - -Songs For a Seagull - - Hejira I figured I'd go for the "masterpiece" and the very beginning piece. :) By the way... what exactly does Hejira stand for/mean? My college (Hunter) has an e-mail system called Hejira so I was curious. Cristen - ------------------------------------------- Cristen Curley cristen@starwhores.org dangerkitty.com - not a porn site, but the next best thing "Kissing you for the first time on a date is like eating unlabeled candy." - - Lewin A.R.W. Edwards "Smelling of October and rust, smelling of October and rust... Churches purple burning and dust. She goes in, she goes in. I wanna be where she goes in." Lame, "Brynn" ____________________________ Free Email/SMTP/POP, http://www.bn3.com, Hosting yourname@yoursite.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:41:01 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Hejira - why a defector? Susan McNamara wrote: > ... But what > about the line: "Palm trees in the porch light like thick black > cellophane." The definition of defector fits Hejira's theme, but also it sounds much better than deserter. Joni uses alliteration all the time (the line from above reminded me of this) so, the F and R sounds repeated in "defecter from" freely flow forward... ok you get the idea. In the line above, I love that repeated P sound and also the T sounds of trees and light, and the kuh sound repeated 3 times. Don't know what it's called when the sounds repeat at the end of a word instead of the beginning, but it does make the words "like thick black" hang together, although what torture it must be to get all those sounds out clearly when singing. And what a relief to finally get to the S sound of cellophane. > what a wizard. Yes, she does seem magical. I'm so used to her work I usually take her abilities for granted, but then when I look a little closer, wow, makes me shake my head in amazement, again. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:41:27 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: "Down To You" (C&S)/clavinet john low wrote: >And, I notice in the liner notes that Joni playes a clavinet on “Down >To You”. I’m not sure if she uses this instrument anywhere else. I >read somewhere that it’s percussive qualities have been utilized by >Chick Corea and Stevie Wonder, though I’m not all that familiar with >the work of either. The clavinet is essentially an electric guitar controlled by a keyboard; it has strings with magnetic coils like an electric guitar but the player plays it with a keyboard. It's true that the most common usage of it is more percussive (hundreds of funk records utilize it) but it can be played lyrically with a more sustained sound. In this case it would sound more like a finger picked electric guitar, and that's why it isn't easy to discern on "Down To You." Stevie Wonder has used it a lot, to great musical effect, both as percussive funk instrument ("Superstition") and as lyrical, sustained guitar as on "Happier Than the Morning Sun" on his early masterpiece Music Of My Mind. Also on that album is "Sweet Little Girl," which uses the more percussive funk approach, and on which Stevie pleads: "You know your baby loves you ... more than he loves his cla-vi-net!" I can't recall Chick Corea using a clavinet (but he might have in his ultra-fusion period, which I didn't care for), but Herbie Hancock certainly used it a lot, and is one of the best practitioners of the funky, hocketing, hand-drum-like approach. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:41:52 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: Hejira - why a defector? >but it does make the words "like thick black" hang together, >although what torture it must be to get all those sounds out clearly when >singing. And what a relief to finally get to the S sound of cellophane. No matter how many times i play that song I mess up on that line. > >Yes, she does seem magical. I'm so used to her work I usually take her >abilities for granted, but then when I look a little closer, wow, makes me >shake my head in amazement, again. I remember a thread a long time ago when we were looking at the craftsmanship in Marcie. I think that thread went on for a week. Thank God there were some good English majors in the crowd to make it interesting!! Another hard line to sing: Marcie buys a bag of peaches, stops a postman passing by.... the b's frame the p's in that line. sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 15:28:37 -0400 From: "Paul Pennington" Subject: Re: Hinton the Hack Paul I wrote: > Having read the list of errors and miscalculations > Hinton has published, I consider it a hack job. > But then as a professional writer and editor, I am > sure I am less tolerant of such things than you seem > to be, and probably less tolerant than most people. Are you saying there is a document listing these "errors"? Paul Pennington Augusta, Georgia ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:23:07 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Cleveland anyone?? NJC... sorry but I wondered if anyone is in Cleveland and could tape the Channel 5 and Channel 8 news for me tonight... Message me offlist if you can please. Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:55:30 EDT From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Hinton etc I've been a lurker in the last few months out of lack of time to even read JMDL postings. Tonight I thought I'd take a look at the most recent digest. I haven't read the Brian Hinton book, but I feel a little defence coming on. Recent surveys in the UK show a lot of authors earning considerably less than the average wage (circa £20,000). Even library lendings payments are below £5000 per year for the vast majority of authors. Can't be the money then (Brian Hinton has written other books, I believe). What prompts someone to write a book, then? Love of the subject? Vanity (not in this case, there are plenty of publishers who'll gladly skin you for the chance to publish on their terms - and Sanctuary, the British publishers, aren't one of them). Perhaps Brian Hinton just enjoyed the music and felt the best way to express it was to write. Could an American writer writing about a British songwriter have done better? Please let me know - does love for the subject seem to be the motivation, or is it something else? End of ramble. David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:11:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Hinton etc In a message dated 8/16/00 8:00:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dmascall@aol.com writes: << Perhaps Brian Hinton just enjoyed the music and felt the best way to express it was to write. Could an American writer writing about a British songwriter have done better? >> How does this have anything to do with whether he did a good job in the book? If he tried to tackle a subject that had obstacles too difficult for him to overcome, you congratulate his for doing the best he could under the circumstances? Peace and harmony aside for a moment, that's crap. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:34:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Hejira - why a defector? > I know you meant Hejira instead of Coyote. > Thank you and thanks Mr. Lammadoo for correcting my subject line. What can I say? Sometimes the synapses don't always meet up properly! More & more senior moments as time goes on....sigh.... But what > about the line: "Palm trees in the porch light like thick black > cellophane." what a wizard. > I love that line too, Sue. When I first moved to the Northwest I used to sing pine trees in the porch light. Thanks for your interesting thoughts. A good writer of any kind chooses words very carefully. That's why I was curious as to Joni's reason for choosing this particular word. Thanks to all for your feedback! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:40:18 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: thick or slick? i don't mean to be a bore, but isn't it actually ''SLICK black cellophane???''. i don't have the album here with me. i've been singing ''slick'' instead of thick for the last two decades! have i been making a fool of myself? wallyK, definitely hearing impaired when it comes to lyrics. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 21:55:05 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: thick or slick? In a message dated 8/16/00 9:50:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: << i don't mean to be a bore, but isn't it actually ''SLICK black cellophane???''. i don't have the album here with me. i've been singing ''slick'' instead of thick for the last two decades! have i been making a fool of myself? wallyK, definitely hearing impaired when it comes to lyrics. >> Indeed, you are correct. Lifted from the Joni homepage lyrics: BLUE MOTEL ROOM I've got a blue motel room With a blue bedspread I've got the blues inside and outside my head Will you still love me When I call you up when I'm down Here in Savannah it's pouring rain Palm trees in the porch light like slick black cellophane ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:20:45 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Both Sides Now Hello All- I was in Tower Records the other day and happened to have some time and I looked up BSN in their data base and found that there are versions of the song by the following artists: Joni Mitchell Kate Wolf Paul Young Roger Whittaker Natalie Cole Mark O'Conner (Yes the Nashville fiddle whiz) I love this guy! The Parasites Dianne Reeves Pete Seeger Singers Unlimited The Three Sounds Tom Hynes Chet Atkins Baillie and the Boys Jim Nabors The Moving Dream Nana Mousrourri Willie Nelson Nitty Gritty Dirt Band Neil Diamond Sammy Hagar ???? Cleo Caine Mantovanni Hugh Masakela Pat Martino Doris Day The Ballroom Band Glen Campbell Michel Feinstein David Syme Gabor Szabo Michael Chapdela Clannad While I thought you cheese seekers would find this interesting and inspire you to hunt for these gems in flea markets, used record stores, and your own collections and send them on to Bob for Volumes 57, 58, and 59 or so. There was more there but I ran out of time. I am gonna do an extensive search there soon on all Joni penned stuff and I will pass it on to you. Thanks to Bob for catching me up on the C & C latest editions. I will ebjoy them again tomorrow at work. Peace Michael NP-ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:50:08 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: "no tongue and the bell" what does this phrase from "JOTMATS" mean? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:54:36 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: updated cover section and Joni publicity photo Jim Johanson has spent many long hours updating the "Covered By" section at jonimitchell.com thanks to the help of our very own scjoniguy, Bob Muller. APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE........ Also, remember that publicity photo I told you about, well Jim has posted her up in the Bio section: "The Emerging Popular Artist" 1968-70. Thank you Jim. It warms my heart to know that she's made her way home. So, what are you waiting for? Lookiesee. Rose in NJ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:30:16 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "no tongue and the bell" In a message dated 8/16/00 11:53:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: << what does this phrase from "JOTMATS" mean? The line is: " No tongue IN the bell And the fishwives yell but they might as well be mute" A bell without a tongue does not ring, it is silent. Beethoven is deaf. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:46:47 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Picking Joni Albums Cristen wrote in response to Don Rowe: "I would have to agree with the entire theme/variations concept. There are a lot of bands and artists I've seen who's studio persona and live persona are very different. Dave Matthews Band and Counting Crows to name two. DMB takes their studio material and turns it into a piece to jam on and expand upon, taking 5 minute songs into sometimes half-hour long jams. Counting Crows darks back and forth from the acoustic and electric fronts and the lead man, Adam Duritz often plays with and changes the lyrics to songs in concerts. So yes, there are a lot of variations going on there. In the long run I would agree with Don. That if you have an understanding of the origins of a piece of music, you can understand why it's preformed that way, where it's emerged from, etc. I think you also get to see how an artist grows in different forums." This is an interesting thread. I think alot of it depends on where you come from and where you are at at the time you discover the music. I am a die hard Beatle fan and grew up buying each album in order and wore them out one after the other and have never tired of going back to each one and discovering something new and fresh. Then when the Swinging Pig Bootlegs surfaced (pre Anthology days) I loved hearing the songs in their infancy stages and alternate versions of the tunes, and live versions. As far as Joni stuff is concerned I came into her stuff right around STAS and grew with her although I had some dim periods where I only went to her to weep and heal. There are some tunes I really hated then but love now (like Boho Dance for instance). Recently I love just about everything she does (except No Apologies, which I will probaby like alot when I grow up. As I have said before she could sing the LA white Pages and I would love it. Enjoy your journey of discovery. BTW I really love the DMB and have some very cool live stuff only available FOR FREE for friends and trades. Peace Michael P.S. You gotta keep you eye on that guy Don Rowe! He thinks he's Larry Klein (Joni's ex-husband the Russian on Prozac) ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 23:50:25 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Hejira Live DonLarryDonLarry wrote: "That would really make an interesting study, now that I think of it. A CD sampler of Hejira songs in concert -- in chronological order -- starting with the album cut, backed by all available "live" versions from studio-released concerts and the tape trees ..." Don Brilliant idea! I love this idea. Let me know if you need any material you don't have. Love to help out on this one. Michael NP-No Rhyme-Conspiracy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:00:58 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Go Forth Cristen- Welcome to the list! Go forth to "For the Roses" and then forward some more. Take your time and go forth some more till you get to the current release, then go back to the beginning. Don't stop till you get enough. Then of course you will have to make new friends here and get some of the contraband "For Free" stuff that is available out there (well ok maybe get Ladies of the Canyon at the same time as For the Roses). Gosh I envy you. So much music for you to discover and it's so wonderful. Don't forget to post as you go so we can relive the music with you. Enjoy the music, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 01:02:58 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Search for a Joni favorite movie In a message dated 8/16/00 1:08:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, joni_reigns@hotmail.com writes: << I read in one of the JMDL articles about "The Story of Three Loves" (circa 1953), one of Joni's favorite movies. She was humming the entire melody of it in the interview. Got me curious about the movie. I see from eonline.com that it is not available on video, but occasionally comes on TV. So folks, does anyone have this on videotape from one of their TV viewings? >> no I don't have this videotaped but I did come home one night in the last six-seven months and there it was on t.v, on AMC or TCM. I was very tired and couldn't even stay up to watch the whole thing but I remember that there was a ballerina in it dancing around while the male played the piano piece--the Rachmaninoff or whatever it is, and I remembered Joni describing her and her friends "childhood play" being very much like that (where her classical pianist friend would play classical music while she danced around like a ballerina). I guess she got inspired in all sorts of ways by that movie. that's all--my once a month post... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #334 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?