From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #332 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, August 15 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 332 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Graham Sydney [john low ] Fwd: UK Summer Jonifest ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: an introduction of sorts [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] re: Shorter & Brecker [Matthew Snyder ] Fwd: Re: an introduction of sorts [Susan McNamara ] Fwd: re: Shorter & Brecker [Susan McNamara ] your next joni album [Michael Bird ] re: Shorter & Brecker [Mark Domyancich ] B. Mitchell Reed [Steve Dulson ] Choosing Your Next Joni [Don Rowe ] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [Cristen ] Re: an introduction of sorts [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [Don Rowe ] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [Scott Price ] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Joni's pants! [catman ] Re: UK Jonifest ["Steve Mitchell" ] Covers & Contributions, Volume 9 [Michael Bird ] Re: Choosing Your Next Joni [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Covers & Contributions, Volume 9 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? ["Steve" ] Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? [RandyRemote <] "Down To You" (C&S) [john low ] Re: "Down To You" (C&S) [Don Rowe ] Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? ["Jim L'Hommed] Re: "Down To You" (C&S) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:38:58 +1000 From: john low Subject: Graham Sydney Hell, Thanks so much for posting the Graham Sydney website. I really love his work. When I was in NZ I saw some of his work and went out of my way to find an article on him (and poet Brian Turner) in "North & South" that I'd heard about. You've made my day!! Cheers, John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:35:56 -0700 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: Fwd: UK Summer Jonifest Hi there, This comes from Martin Giles, who seems to be having some e-mail issues w.r.t the list at the moment. He asked that I post this. - -------8<------- Hi everyone. Martin here, back at home a day after a wonderful weekend at the UK jonifest. You've already had reports from some of the others and will know that it was a great success. I came up from London on Saturday afternoon stopping off in Hendon to pick up Azeem. I met Azeem for the first time in the same circumstances last year when we went to Colin (Catman)'s Jonifest. Azeem has since introduced me to a wonderful live music club in London called the Kashmir Klub, and we have met up there on many occasions in the last year. We were too late to join up with Chris, Sue, Phil, Steve and Jamie for lunch in Cambridge, (due to a small problem of all my clothes being wet from a comprehensive laundry session the previous evening - but I digress...). So Chris directed us via mobile phone to his local pub, the White Horse, until they got back. Azeem and I sat in the beer garden in the glorious sunshine with a pint of bitter each and soon Chris was on the blower again to announce their return. So we arrived at Chris' house, where the others were in the living room. Jamie I met first when I went to the January Troubadour Jonifest, and who entertained us along with Marian, and Chris' occasional bass accompaniment. Sue Cameron I had not met before but have exchanged a few emails in the last few months with her since she told me she was planning a trip to the UK this summer. Phil, Les and Steve were completely new aquaintances. Soon after, people started to adjourn to the garden, so as not to waste the rare glimpse of summer sun that we were getting. The drink was out and I tucked into an Old Speckled Hen for starters. (To you foreign johnnies, the British take great pride in naming beers in bizarre ways. I have no idea why, except that there is something very funny about a full grown man asking for a Speckled Hen or a Bishop's Finger in a pub). However, I was nervous of drinking too much as I was expecting to play later on, and it's a little difficult when you can't feel your fingers!! As the afternoon progressed, we were joined by Colin and his partner John. Also by Les, and Sarah (who wishes to be known as Strings, please!) Strings is a friend of Chris' who I met briefly at the Troubadour in January, and then again in April when we all got together for a night on the tiles in London. I found out that she is a singer and as I play guitar and Chris guitar and bass, we all said that we should get together. Time went by, and nothing was happening, but when Chris announced his intention to host a UK Jonifest, it provided the spur to egt me on the phone to Strings and arrange a rehearsal. I hadn't heard her sing before, but when I started strumming Coyote and she started singing I was really impressed. Strings has a beautiful voice, deep and rich, remeniscent of kd Lang or Tracy Chapman. Strings didn't know much Joni, but had For The Roses and Hejira, so we decided on a three songs to concentrate on, plus a Tracy Chapman song called 'The Promise' which I didn't know, but went away and worked out a solo guitar part. Cut back to the Summer Jonifest, and we had one last rehearsal upstairs in Chris' bedroom, with Chris joining in for the first time. Chris is a very good bass player, and it was quite obvious that he was able to put a strong Pastorius like bass part to our three rehearsed Joni songs, so it was back downstairs to join in with the party out in the garden, where the BBQ was just being lit. As with all BBQs that I have ever been to in the UK, the hardest part seems to be getting the damn charcoal alight, and this was no exception. Mind you, once it was going it looked like it was going to consume Chris' house for a while! Once it was usable, Colin jumped into the macho role of barbecue chef, while Chris and I prepared the meat and salad. We sat down as the sun set to a lavish bonanza of turkey, chicken, sausages and tuna steak. Once we all had had our fill, the calls for live entertainment went up, and Phil went to get his guitar. Phil had struck me in our brief meeting of the afternoon as an intelligent and subtle person, and his guitar playing was a definitley a reflection of that. He treated us to several songs and I was particularly impressed by his rendering of All I Want - this man can play!!. Phil supplied the guitar, and we all sang at the top of our voices - Steve Mitchells' being a particularly warm tenor. My voice is in the baritone range I guess, and so is Jamie Zubairi's except Jamie can sing a very smooth, seemingly effortless falsetto that gives him an extra octave above the highest squeekiest note that I can hit! The guitar passed round to Les, and I'm afraid my memory fails me as to all the songs he played, but again I was impressed by the obvious talent, both in his playing and in his singing. Les has a very deep, rich speaking voice, but as Colin has commented, his singing voice is higher than I imagined it would be, and very pleasant too. It was a great pity that Jamie had to leave us to get a train back to London. (He was off to Brighton Sunday morning to meet up with people with whom he is writing a stand-up comedy show, I think). But before he left, he treated us to Edith & The Kingpin, with his masterfull 'scratch and tap' guitar work and his soaring baritone voice. Time was getting on and we decided to deny the neighbours any more beauty, and went inside. Chris got his basses out (one with, one without frets), and he, Strings and I played Coyote, Black Crow and Hejira. Once again the assembled throng joined in with enthusiastic singing, so loud that at times I could hardly hear my own guitar! It was a wonderful experience to have a roomful of people who know and love Joni's music and who were singing so joyfully. Now it was time for everyone to listen though as Strings sung the Tracy Chapman song that we had worked on. I was busy with my guitar part, and was only listening with one ear to her, but for the first time the assembled crowd were hearing her voice. There was wrapped attention throughout, and a great burst of applause at the end. I think it is fair to say that everyone loved her singing - and rightly so. The live music continued for a long while after that, and having 'done my bit', I relaxed and started on the beers! My memory of the detail and order of events thereafter are somewhat blurred, but they included Azeems' warm rendering of Gram Parson's Brass Buttons, Les' (open tuning) and very beautiful A Case Of You and Phil's fine instrumental performance of The Beatles' Here, There And Everywhere. I think it was around then that Colin and John made their excuses and said goodnight to us. Later the TV went on and we watched the Joni Tribute Concert, which I hadn't seen before. Low point for me was Cindy Lauper's bizarre interpretation of Carey. High points were kd Langs' Help Me, Richard Thompson's Woodstock, and also Diana Krall (haven't come across her before) - I think it was her who sang A Case Of You. Wow. Absolutely stunning. When the show was over, Sue came down from Chris' computer room where she had been sending emails to the list and we opened a bottle of Champagne, toasted Joni and opened the Mendel catalogue. Eventually, (at about 4am I'm told), everyone was fading, and we all found a bed or a patch of floor and I for one went happily and very quickly to sleep. Next morning, I got up (not too early you understand), and went downstairs in time to say good morning and goodbye to Sue, and to Les, who was giving her a lift back to London. Strings had already departed on her motorbike. She is a medical student and her exams are coming up in one month's time, so she has a lot of revising to do. Then there were four. We decided to head back to Cambridge for lunch at the Cafe Uno by the river. Chris gave Phil a lift in his latest puchase, a gorgous TVR Chimeara. (Chris had taken me for a quick spin in it the previous afternoon - and I was treated to a 0-60 in about 6 seconds, which apparantly is not nearly as quick as it could do if it was properly tuned up, but still, waaahhhhhoooooooooooooo!!) Today though, I was back in my quiet and very sensible little Toyota, giving a lift to Azeem. The lunch was very good, and I noticed everyone was on the soft drinks ;-) Shortly afterwards, it was time to say goodbye to Azeem, who we delivered to Cambridge railway station, and then I parted company with them also, to go and visit an old friend who lives in Cambridge. My impressions of the people that I met for the first time aswell as those that I know already, echo what I see posted to the list so often. The list is full of an amazing warmth, openness and friendliness, where you always feel at home. The welcome that you get is only matched my the talent. So. Thankyou Chris for hosting the get together. It was a great weekend. Martin. Back in London. - -------8<------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:11:09 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: an introduction of sorts <> LOL! So true, Alan, and viva la difference! :~) And welcome, Cristen! I too look forward to hearing more from you once you get these Joni-gems and hear them for the first time... Another potential way to 'discover' Joni would be to get her records in sequence from Song To A Seagull to Both Sides Now. As you go, you can read the "BIO" section on the homepage, articles from JMDL.com, or pick up a copy of The Joni Mitchell Companion, which is also written sequentially. That way you'll be able to trace the growth and development of this one-of-a-kind brilliant composer & artist... The good news is, no matter which path you choose, you can't go wrong! :~) Bob NP: Elton John, "Amy" ps: "Starwhores" ?? LOL! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:50:52 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: re: Shorter & Brecker Bob wrote: >I know Joni calls Wayne Shorter a genius, and indeed he is incredible creative and the >work he did for her records is excellent, but for pure wailing, Brecker's the man who >makes my ears perk up. > >Maybe my ears are just not properly trained...;~) Joni initially wanted Weather Report to be the band for the S&L tour, but contractually that wasn't possible, so she got as close as she could. Brecker was perfect for that particular touring band, in retrospect (he and Metheny are better matched than Metheny would have been with Shorter, and of course Metheny and Jaco were tight), but it is very annoying that, to my knowledge, Wayne has never appeared with Joni live, either on tour or even for one night. I really wanted him on the BSN tour. Herbie did it for a couple of nights, why not Wayne? Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:04:22 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: Re: an introduction of sorts Bob said: >Another potential way to 'discover' Joni would be to get her records >in sequence from Song To A Seagull to Both Sides Now. As you go, you >can read the "BIO" section on the homepage, articles from JMDL.com, >or pick up a copy of The Joni Mitchell Companion, which is also >written sequentially. Great idea, bob. The bio section of the Joni Mitchell Homepage is, in my opinion, the best authorized biography of siquomb (she is queen of mind beauty, in case anyone was wondering). I was in heaven for several months in 1995 waiting for Wally to unleash the newest section. Also, someone mentioned masterpieces, and I really can't stress enough how I feel about Turbulent Indigo. Although I agree, knowing the basic building blocks of her style (STAS, Blue, Hissing, Hejira) is important, I think TI is her greatest achievement. Some may disagree...discussion? ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:12:28 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Fwd: re: Shorter & Brecker >but it is very annoying that, to my >knowledge, Wayne has never appeared with Joni live, either on tour or even >for one night. I really wanted him on the BSN tour. Herbie did it for a >couple of nights, why not Wayne? > Joni played live with Wayne Shorter in Nara, Japan, May 1994 See this article on the Joni Mitchell Home Page: http://www.jonimitchell.com/Nara94.html She also sang with Dylan in an encore of "I Shall Be Released." Trivia: Does anyone remember Joni's reaction to that experience? :-) ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:56:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: your next joni album More important than which Joni album comes next is: the pace you go at. You don't sound like you'd want to rush to the store and come home with two dozen discs. Let each one take its time getting to know you, give each one space before moving on to the next. Give it years! My first Joni album was bought in 1987, and I didn't complete my back-catalogue collection until ten years later. It could be fun to get them in chronological order, to hear the development of her craft in the same sequence the world discovered her ... that way you spread out some of her best albums over time: For the Roses, Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, Turbulent Indigo (don't miss out on those or Hejira, by the way!). Thanks to some strange timing, I ended up buying my favorite Joni records first, and my least favorite ones last ... Enjoy the journey and welcome to the list. Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:19:11 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: re: Shorter & Brecker In some of the video tree clips I get the impression that Wayne is nervous playing in front of such a large group of people. One that comes to mind is the Aionoshi Festival - I don't recall which song it is, but he sort of looks up during his playing, something that nervous musicians do. I often wondered why he wasn't apart of Joni's touring too myself. I personally don't enjoy Michael's playing - he plays much too loud! There's also a part in Shadows and Light where you can hear he needs to release the spit valve... gross! :D NP-Tim Reynolds, 4/16/00-Jemez Rolling Waves At 10:50 AM -0400 8/15/00, Matthew Snyder wrote: >Joni initially wanted Weather Report to be the band for the S&L tour, but >contractually that wasn't possible, so she got as close as she could. >Brecker was perfect for that particular touring band, in retrospect (he and >Metheny are better matched than Metheny would have been with Shorter, and >of course Metheny and Jaco were tight), but it is very annoying that, to my >knowledge, Wayne has never appeared with Joni live, either on tour or even >for one night. I really wanted him on the BSN tour. Herbie did it for a >couple of nights, why not Wayne? - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:41:21 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: B. Mitchell Reed Marksa973@aol.com asked: >Can anyone tell me what Joni's relationship was with B. Mitchell Reed? I >remember him when he was a dj in New York City on an a.m. station. I used to >think "Rainy Night House" was about him because of the reference to "holy man >on the FM radio" and because I had heard that he and Joni had some sort of >relationship. In addition to Kakki's comments, there was an in-print reference (Rolling Stone's infamous "old lady of the year" story perhaps? - which I AM looking for, Irish Phil!) to a romantic relationship between Joni and BMR. I too always thought that he was the "holy man on the FM radio". - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 09:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Choosing Your Next Joni The various responses to Cristen's request of "which Joni next?" has sparked the usual, and usually disparate set of recommendations. The part of it which interests me, as a songwriter and musician, is the opinion of some that a Joni "Neophyte" (I think that's the Inner Circle's official designation) should get the concert albums *before* completing their collection of studio releases. I recommend that a new fan always buy the studio releases first, and here's why. As a songwriter and performer, I always consider the studio versions of songs as the "Theme" if you will ... and any subsequent live performances the "Variations" ... of a given song. In order to fully appreciate the variations, you need to be familiar with the theme. And it's on the studio releases where the time was taken ... in multiple takes, arranging & rearranging, mixing & layering, and mastering ... where the artist found that sonic vision they carried around in their head transferred to tape. Put simply, on the studio albums -- for the most part -- you hear the songs the way the artist originally intended them to sound. I'd also suggest that the studio versions are the template from which artists "change" their live versions to one extent or another. So knowing those versions will serve to deepen your appreciation of the changes made for the stage. I'm sure that this will spark some debate about the role of the "producer" etc. -- which is part of the reason I'm interested in hearing what others think. So ... thoughts anyone? Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:05:15 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni As a non-musician, I would also recommend the studio albums first for the same reason. I like to hear the studio versions first, before the variations on the live albums. There is also a distinct flavor to the live albums, that is different from the corresponding studio ones. I do not LOVE either of the live albums; they are definitely at the bottom of my Joni play list. When I was collecting my Joni catalogue in high school, I bought the albums in order of availability (which wasn't much...I grew up in rural Maine), and was totally off-put by both Miles of Aisles, and Shadows and Light. 10 years later, I appreciate them, and really like selected trax, but as albums, they don't do nearly as much for me as Joni's carefully selected song-cycles and meticulous studio production. (The Woodstock performance, and the recent (TI onwards) live recordings were the first of Joni's to really grab me. Reuben Reuben Bell Events and Public Relations Coordinator Glencairn Museum Bryn Athyn, PA www.glencairnmuseum.org >>> Don Rowe 08/15/00 12:51PM >>> The various responses to Cristen's request of "which Joni next?" has sparked the usual, and usually disparate set of recommendations. The part of it which interests me, as a songwriter and musician, is the opinion of some that a Joni "Neophyte" (I think that's the Inner Circle's official designation) should get the concert albums *before* completing their collection of studio releases. I recommend that a new fan always buy the studio releases first, and here's why. As a songwriter and performer, I always consider the studio versions of songs as the "Theme" if you will ... and any subsequent live performances the "Variations" ... of a given song. In order to fully appreciate the variations, you need to be familiar with the theme. And it's on the studio releases where the time was taken ... in multiple takes, arranging & rearranging, mixing & layering, and mastering ... where the artist found that sonic vision they carried around in their head transferred to tape. Put simply, on the studio albums -- for the most part -- you hear the songs the way the artist originally intended them to sound. I'd also suggest that the studio versions are the template from which artists "change" their live versions to one extent or another. So knowing those versions will serve to deepen your appreciation of the changes made for the stage. I'm sure that this will spark some debate about the role of the "producer" etc. -- which is part of the reason I'm interested in hearing what others think. So ... thoughts anyone? Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail * Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:16:20 -0400 From: Cristen Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni Don said: >I recommend that a new fan always buy the studio >releases first, and here's why. As a songwriter and >performer, I always consider the studio versions of >songs as the "Theme" if you will ... and any >subsequent live performances the "Variations" ... of a >given song. In order to fully appreciate the >variations, you need to be familiar with the theme. [snip] >I'd also suggest that the studio versions are the >template from which artists "change" their live >versions to one extent or another. I would have to agree with the entire theme/variations concept. There are a lot of bands and artists I've seen who's studio persona and live persona are very different. Dave Matthews Band and Counting Crows to name two. DMB takes their studio material and turns it into a piece to jam on and expand upon, taking 5 minute songs into sometimes half-hour long jams. Counting Crows darks back and forth from the acoustic and electric fronts and the lead man, Adam Duritz often plays with and changes the lyrics to songs in concerts. So yes, there are a lot of variations going on there. In the long run I would agree with Don. That if you have an understanding of the origins of a piece of music, you can understand why it's preformed that way, where it's emerged from, etc. I think you also get to see how an artist grows in different forums. Cristen - ------------------------------------------- Cristen Curley cristen@starwhores.org dangerkitty.com - not a porn site, but the next best thing "Kissing you for the first time on a date is like eating unlabeled candy." - - Lewin A.R.W. Edwards "Smelling of October and rust, smelling of October and rust... Churches purple burning and dust. She goes in, she goes in. I wanna be where she goes in." Lame, "Brynn" ____________________________ Free Email/SMTP/POP, http://www.bn3.com, Hosting yourname@yoursite.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:48:34 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: an introduction of sorts In a message dated 8/15/00 11:28:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sem8@cornell.edu writes: << The bio section of the Joni Mitchell Homepage is, in my opinion, the best authorized biography of siquomb (she is queen of mind beauty, in case anyone was wondering). >> Undisputedly and indoubtably! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:47:20 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni In a message dated 8/15/00 1:08:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << And it's on the studio releases where the time was taken ... in multiple takes, arranging & rearranging, mixing & layering, and mastering ... where the artist found that sonic vision they carried around in their head transferred to tape. Put simply, on the studio albums -- for the most part -- you hear the songs the way the artist originally intended them to sound. >> I will disagree here, but in the spirit of peace and harmony. To Joni and many other songwriters, the songs are their children. Therefore, in the studio version you only hear the song in its infancy, while the live recording brings you the song after it has been played and played with, and it has grown into maturity. To refute Don's point that the studio recording is how the artist "originally intended them to sound," I cite "Edith and the Kingpin," which really blossoms in the live recording, while in comparison the studio recording barely has life. Joni herself said she was unable to get the sound she wanted for "Edith & the K" in the studio, and it wasn't until she was performing it live that she got the band to sound like typewriters, etc. Another example of a song that reaches maturity in the live recording is "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio," which grows from an almost-AM sound on "For the Roses" into something of a surreal sounding effect on "Miles of Aisles." It's probably incorrect to say every live recording is better than the studio version, but I also thought that "theme and variation" statement was more appropriate for Bach than Joni. I don't believe it's necessary to enjoy the "theme" first before the so-called "variation," just as it's not necessary to know a person as a child before liking him or her as an adult. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni IVPaul blocks my "theme/variations" metaphor ... > Therefore, in the studio version you only hear the > song in its infancy, while > the live recording brings you the song after it has > been played and played > with, and it has grown into maturity. Hmmm ... the life cycle seems a little too "linear" to really fit a song. Now I agree that sometimes the "best" version of a song gets captured in a live performance. But if we were to look, for example, at the performances of songs from "Hejira" ... we'd see something not quite so "orderly", and certainly less "linear" than a growth process might suggest. Those songs all sound "adapted" to fit the band-du-jour. I'd say this is true for S&L, and certainly the delightful recent tour arrangements. If you know every note on the studio album backwards, by heart, you really learn to appreciate how instruments are substituted one for the other as, for example, Neil Young's harmonica is picked up by a Wayne Shorter/Tom Scott sax, or a Chris Botti muted trumpet, or a Jaco bass figure is covered by a Pat Metheny electric guitar. And most recently, how Brian Blade's personal style of refined drumming is worked in and out of the songs. That would really make an interesting study, now that I think of it. A CD sampler of Hejira songs in concert -- in chronological order -- starting with the album cut, backed by all available "live" versions from studio-released concerts and the tape trees ... Bob in SC? Catgirl? Oh that's right, I've got my own CD burner now!! Hmmm ... Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 11:32:37 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni At 01:47 PM 8/15/00 EDT, IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: >Therefore, in the studio version you only hear the song in its infancy, while >the live recording brings you the song after it has been played and played >with, and it has grown into maturity. Not necessarily...many times artists try out new material on live audiences. Joni's "Miles of Aisles" contains two "new" songs: "Love Or Money" and "Jericho." The latter was "in its infancy" and not released on a studio album until years later, while the former never did make it onto a studio album. As far as the studio version of "Edith and the Kingpin," this is one song that is *all* about the production, IMO. The background vocals seamlessly blending with the instruments is a studio trick that is breathtaking to this listener. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:55:33 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni <> That would DEFINITELY rule, except she's never played Blue Motel Room or Strange Boy to my knowledge (which is limited I would add! :~D) But if you were to do ALL the available live versions of ALL the Hejira stuff, it'd be damn near a 20-CD set, from my stuff alone! I'm foolhardy and brave, but I don't think I wanna tackle that assignment...;~D Now, a 2-CD set, the Best of Hejira Live? Maybe... Bob NP: Freedy Johnston, "Caught As You Look Away" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:06:01 +0100 From: catman Subject: Joni's pants! Has no one seen that orange pant suit thing that Joni was wearing at one of her does? - -- why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:39:50 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: UK Jonifest Well, most of it has been said already but here goes anyway. Firstly, many oodles of thanks go to Chris Marshall for organising this event (and for pointing me in the direction of the JMDL in the first place). Like Colin, I felt the atmosphere of belonging and the warmth (not only of the glorious sunshine and the BBQ) but of the people gathered together with a single purpose. It was *such* a pleasure to meet all of you & thanks for sharing guys! To the lovely Sue Cameron, thanks for bringing yourself and your copy of the Mendel book, and you can come shopping with me *anytime* girlfriend! Shame there isn't another one next weekend . . . ah well, I'll have to go and visit friends and tell them what a blast I had! - -- Stevie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:48:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: Covers & Contributions, Volume 9 This is a public THANK YOU! to the Divine BOB MULLER for putting together a splendid Covers, Volume 9, which has been playing here since the mail came in today. I'm particularly enamoured of the jazzy middle section: Eva Cassidy's Woodstock, Fred Hersch's trippy My Old Man, Paul Desmond's Song to a Seagull, and Annika Felhing's sexy Goodbye Pork Pie Hat. And I have to admit I like Viola Wells' Both Sides Now, despite the dance track -- it's got real feeling behind it. And Bobby Dylan's "Big Yellow Bulldozer" is worth a giggle. (Hey Mr. Muller, which ones are your favorite?) Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:52:33 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni I vaguely recall Wally B mentioning BMR as a soundcheck item before one of the May 1998 concerts. I would love to hear that one live. NP-Medeski Martin & Wood - Chubb Sub At 3:55 PM -0400 8/15/00, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >That would DEFINITELY rule, except she's never played Blue Motel >Room or Strange Boy to my knowledge (which is limited I would add! >:~D) - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 17:04:05 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers & Contributions, Volume 9 <<(Hey Mr. Muller, which ones are your favorite?)>> Firstly, let me say that NickelChief was a contributor so he got an advance copy...he generously shared Matthew's Minstrel's interpretation of "Raised On Robbery", done acapella and it truly rocks! And so far the only ROR cover we've got... My favorite on this disc would have to be Colloseum II's otherworldly progressive-rock 9-minute opus on "Down To You"...a real mind blower! I didn't know anything about Colloseum prior to buying this disc; the original Colloseum was started in the 60's by John Mayall. The band reformed in the 70's with Gary Moore (brilliant Irish guitarist from Thin Lizzy), and put out this record, they even called it "Strange New Flesh", so they copped Joni's lyric for the album title! As Kakki said, it fits into the category of the "weird & wonderful". The first time I heard it I had to hear it again 3 more times! I like #9 a lot, but like any proud parent I love all my babies equally! ;~) I'll be tree-ing it up when I finish Volume 10 which I'm 10 tracks into, the latest of which is June Tabor's "Fiddle and the Drum"... Bob NP: Rickie Lee Jones, "Don't Let The Sun Catch You Crying" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 23:48:16 +0100 From: "Steve" Subject: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? <<>>> Hi folks, Guess some people have let Brian Hinton get right under their skin. So it's clear he's refering to the 2nd Fret recordings because he refers to the fact that some Joni material has recently come to light.........GUILTY......Excuse me but am I missing something. What has this guy done to deserve this lambasting . I've been into Joni's albums since day 1, (OK Album 1) I've LIVED each of her albums in turn just like quite a few people on this list. I've got married, had kids (sorry my wife did that bit ),loved, lost,and all the sundry thousands of emotions that one goes through in life. Joni's words and music have been a wonderful balm on many occassions. In almost thirty years I knew nothing of Joni's background and life other than the very rare press coverage we get in the UK. Which is usually a review at album time. On every visit to a major record store I'd check out the book section........nothing. Imagine my amazement when I found the Hinton book. On reading it I was so sure he had to be a Joni fan like me who had decided to research and write this long overdue tome. I thought (and still do) it was a brilliant read. If anyone on this list thought or thinks (and some have posted to this list just this ) that they could do a better job themselves, and be more accurate. WHAT'S STOPPING YOU........WHY HAVE YOU TAKEN THIRTY YEARS TO GET TO THE THINKING ABOUT IT STAGE. At least Hinton (inaccuracies and all) put something on record to capture some of the wonderful qualities that THE FINEST SONGWRITER ON THE PLANET has given to the world of music, even if most of it doesn't recognise her as such. In the original book Hinton in the section on Bootleg LPs says of "Posal & Mosalm........the most intriguing of her bootlegs, with lots of unrecorded songs, and an early version of "Urge for Going". Is the Bagel Game a mishearing of the Circle Game, or something else entirely? I'd love to hear this record, for research purposes only" I just happened to have a copy of it and in the true nature of any FAN posting a want. I sent Brian Hinton a copy of that tape. You'll notice in the new book that his "request" after Posal & Mosalm has been removed. Hence his comment about early recordings having turned up.Where does the 2nd Fret theory fit in now. Does any body seriously think he's interseted enough to lurk on our list. In case any of you conspiracy theorists are now reckoning that he's quoting me as the person who posted on the net the comment that "it was better than nothing". I've only been a Jimdle for two weeks, but that was exactly how I felt, it was better than nothing. And a lot better than I could have done. It's easy to be an armchair critic. My working life has been mostly in publishing and I know how hard it is to get your work into print. I think he deserves credit for having the courage to see his project through. And no I dont know Brian Hinton personally, or am I his secret press agent. I just feel all this flame throwing in his direction is pretty negative Surely as Jonilovers we can direct our ire in a more positive direction. Like some of the Music Press Editors for lack of Joni coverage. END OF RANT>>>>>>>>> Sorry about that folks had to get it off my chest. Let me offer to any list memeber who doesn't have it the same tape I sent Brian Hinton, The "Posal & Mosalm" Just email me off-list. Happy to share the music FOR FREE. STEVE>>>>>>>>the impossible dreamer NP "Twisted- JM" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:58:29 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Choosing Your Next Joni Hi Don, Wow! Your essay on saving the live albums for last purchase was neat. I never thought about it like this! Theme, variations, template. I think these are great words for making your case. I really enjoyed reading this. Jim L'Hommedieu P.S. One exception- the live versions of BSN, although technically not available :), stomp all over the studio album, imho. Sure, the sound isn't perfect on these audience recordings, but wow, the MUSIC is all there. I think that she really grew into her interpretations. Or maybe she's just a performing animal on these chestnuts. Plus, these BSN concert tapes are the only place that you'll hear Vince Mendoza's take on "Judgement of The Moon And Stars, (Ludwig's Tune)". AND "Be Cool". This new Joni is magnificent, in my humble opinion (IMHO). The $100 USD I spent on a ticket was a bargain. (Thanks to Terry! My 'broker'.) By the way (BTW), I'd recommend the Shadows and Light video but not the Painting With Words and Music video. It's for completists. IMHO. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:33:35 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? Aw, don't take it so hard, Brian-er-!!I mean Steve. Actually, I liked parts of your-ACK!!Hoo!-I mean HIS book. I thought the stuff on her childhood is Canada was interesting, and certainly went into more detail than I have seen before or since. Alot of people have called him to task for sloppy research, obvious errors, etc, and have tried to offer the corrections to no avail. Like you said, it takes alot of moxy to write a book and then some more to get it into print. I thought the book bogged down when it degenerated into 3rd rate song-by-song reviews of her albums. Alot of that part was either laughable or boring, IMO. But I think the book has some redeeming value and is worth getting. RR Steve wrote: > << > or > > Hinton > that > pretty > been > > >>> > > Hi folks, Guess some people have let Brian Hinton get right under their > skin. > So it's clear he's refering to the 2nd Fret recordings because he refers to > the fact that some Joni material has recently come to > light.........GUILTY......Excuse me but am I missing something. What has > this guy done to deserve this lambasting > . > I've been into Joni's albums since day 1, (OK Album 1) > I've LIVED each of her albums in turn just like quite a few > people on this list. I've got married, had kids (sorry my wife did that > bit ),loved, lost,and all the sundry thousands of emotions that one goes > through in life. Joni's words and music have been a wonderful balm on many > occassions. > > In almost thirty years I knew nothing of Joni's background and life other > than the very rare press coverage we get in the UK. Which is usually a > review at album time. On every visit to a major record store I'd check out > the book section........nothing. > Imagine my amazement when I found the Hinton book. On reading it I was so > sure he had to be a Joni fan like me who had decided to research and write > this long overdue tome. I thought (and still do) it was a brilliant read. > > If anyone on this list thought or thinks (and some have posted to this list > just this ) that they could do a better job > themselves, and be more accurate. > > WHAT'S STOPPING YOU........WHY HAVE YOU TAKEN THIRTY YEARS TO GET TO THE > THINKING ABOUT IT STAGE. > > At least Hinton (inaccuracies and all) put something on record to capture > some of the wonderful qualities that THE FINEST SONGWRITER ON THE PLANET > has given to the world of music, even if most of it doesn't recognise her as > such. > > In the original book Hinton in the section on Bootleg LPs > says of "Posal & Mosalm........the most intriguing of her bootlegs, with > lots of unrecorded songs, and an early version of "Urge for Going". Is the > Bagel Game a mishearing of the Circle Game, or something else entirely? > I'd love to hear this record, for research purposes only" > > I just happened to have a copy of it and in the true nature of any FAN > posting a want. I sent Brian Hinton a copy of that tape. You'll notice in > the new book that his "request" > after Posal & Mosalm has been removed. Hence his comment about early > recordings having turned up.Where does the 2nd Fret theory fit in now. > > Does any body seriously think he's interseted enough to lurk on our list. In > case any of you conspiracy theorists are now reckoning that he's quoting me > as the person who posted on the net the comment that "it was better than > nothing". I've only been a Jimdle for two weeks, but that was exactly how I > felt, it was better than nothing. And a lot better than I could have done. > It's easy to be an armchair critic. > > My working life has been mostly in publishing and I know how hard it is to > get your work into print. I think he deserves credit for having the courage > to see his project through. > > And no I dont know Brian Hinton personally, or am I his secret press agent. > I just feel all this flame throwing in his direction is pretty negative > Surely as Jonilovers we can direct our ire in a more positive direction. > Like some of the Music Press Editors for lack of Joni coverage. > > END OF RANT>>>>>>>>> > Sorry about that folks had to get it off my chest. > > Let me offer to any list memeber who doesn't have it the same tape I sent > Brian Hinton, The "Posal & Mosalm" > Just email me off-list. > Happy to share the music FOR FREE. > > STEVE>>>>>>>>the impossible dreamer > > NP "Twisted- JM" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 10:09:38 +1000 From: john low Subject: "Down To You" (C&S) Evian wrote recommending C&S to Christen (welcome, Christen!) as a “perfect second Joni album to get” . I’m inclined to agree. I’ve been listening to C&S quite a bit lately and realizing how much I particularly like the song “Down To You”. It’s one of Joni’s most beautiful songs IMO. Listening to it last night (and in my head this morning walking to work) a couple of impressions keep surfacing – especially of it being something of a bridge (an idea evian also mentioned in relation to C&S) between two periods of her work. Musically the song has echoes of “Blue” (the album), while the lyrics possess fairly strong intimations of the “shadows and light” to come on HOSL. I’d be interested to hear what others think of this song. And, I notice in the liner notes that Joni playes a clavinet on “Down To You”. I’m not sure if she uses this instrument anywhere else. I read somewhere that it’s percussive qualities have been utilized by Chick Corea and Stevie Wonder, though I’m not all that familiar with the work of either. Just some stray thoughts! John (in Sydney) PS I think I left NJC off a post I sent last night in response to one from Kiwi Hell. I apologise sincerely to the Joni-onlies for this lapse. __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:09:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: "Down To You" (C&S) Ah yes, the Clavinet ... marketed originally as 'the keyboard player's answer to the rhythm guitarist'! No kidding. You were right on the money with Stevie as one of the foremost admirers, and consumate masters of the board -- even mentions it specifically in a background vocal ("I love my cla-vi-net!"). I'm kind of at a loss to pick it out of the mix on "Down To You" ... and I've tried for years, believe me! But you know our Joni, always using the latest, coolest instrument in completely different ways! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:32:51 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Hinton the Lurker.....2+2=5.......who's paranoid now ? I think it's cool that you sent a tape to Brian Hinton! My dark side suspects that this is how he "does" all of his research though- it falls in his lap! Either in the form of magazine articles or acquiring tapes. Steve, I'm not saying that I could have written Brian's book. The truth is, I didn't have the chops for it and he did. I agree with you that Joni is "THE FINEST SONGWRITER ON THE PLANET". Lastly, I stick by my assertion that Mr. Hinton could, through revisions, incorporate free corrections in a style fitting his research style, (they'd fall in his lap from JMDL) that would result in a book of a quality befitting Our Lady Of Duality. Jim L'Hommedieu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 22:21:24 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: "Down To You" (C&S) << I’d be interested to hear what others think of this song. >> I think it's absolutely beautiful...the "medallion" piece of C&S. I think her first symphony was "Judgement of the Moon and Stars", "Down to You" was her second symphony, and of course she climaxed the symphony mode with "Paprika Plains". John, you must have picked up on some synchronicity...I had posted on a cover of Down to You earlier, I'm guessing you hadn't seen it yet? And I had dinner with Ashara last night and she was just GUSHING about how wonderful the Aussie listers are, especially you! So your ears were burning (a Southern expression). Bob NP: Joni & The Persuasions, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #332 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?