From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #319 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, August 4 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 319 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- CPR ["Kate Bennett" ] Scottish Joni fans ["Anna Ruth MacLean" <9905346M@student.gla.ac.uk>] Re: Scottish Joni fans [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [B Merrill ] Professions of Listers [Louis Lynch ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Professions of Listers [catman ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Aretha [Catherine McKay ] Re: Aretha [Jerry Notaro ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) [Don Rowe ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Napster [Michael Paz ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Ferron Pegged (LJC?) ["P. Henry" ] response to Bruce Merrill re: John Lennon's song to mom ["c Karma" ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Professions of JMDLs [BMGKotler@aol.com] Scottish Joni Fans ["Ross, Les" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:42:52 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: CPR I love CPR. They are currently touring a bit so don't miss them if they come to your area!!!!!!! ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:32:43 +0100 From: "Anna Ruth MacLean" <9905346M@student.gla.ac.uk> Subject: Scottish Joni fans Hello everybody. I have just joined and I am intrigued to know how many of the 600 people on this mailing list are Scottish too. I know one Joni fan and I would love to know more. In fact he introduced me to her music about 2 years ago. My parents had never permitted me to listen to any pop music...basically to any music without Christian lyrics except classical music. I can only say that listening to Blue at night on a personal stereo was an emotional experience which has influenced who I am. Not knowing much about singers, I never imagined that Joni was so famous. I was desperate to find out more about her so I went on the Internet at school when I was supposed to be doing a computing project. I started to print out the sections on her life. Now I have my own access to the web and I'm really enjoying Jonimitchell.com. Thank you so much Wally for creating the site. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:39:57 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Scottish Joni fans In a message dated 8/3/00 6:48:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 9905346M@student.gla.ac.uk writes: << Hello everybody. I have just joined and I am intrigued to know how many of the 600 people on this mailing list are Scottish too. > Hello Anna, and being of Scottish descent I'd like to welcome you to the JMDL ! We have quite a few listers in the UK, but you are the first from Scottland (but I'm not sure) < Now I have my own access to the web and I'm really enjoying Jonimitchell.com. Thank you so much Wally for creating the site. >> Jonimithcell.com is how most of us found this list. Wally certainly did a great job in creating the site, and Jim J. is doing a great job of maintaing it. Thanks for posting Anna!!! Jimmy Stewart Ft. Myers, FL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 07:43:02 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC > Certainly, the Beatles were a band that, even moreso than Joni or any other >musician, combined new sounds with intellectually bright and emotion-laden >lyrics. Those Beatles are in a class by themselves, amazing and unique. But did they combine their ambition and their sincerity? For example, take one of their most unusual, clever, complicated songs, "For the Benefit of Mr. Kite." Does that qualify as sincere? Now take a most sincere song: "Dear Prudence," John's song to his lost mother. It's a simple and relatively unassuming song, which is very much part of its tenderness. Both songs are wonderful, I find. Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? Maybe "All you need is love" would qualify, since the way they combine the um-pah sing-along with the 7/8 time is a striking accomplishment...? Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:39:51 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Professions of Listers Hi all, Answering the professions poll, I must be greedy, I have two careers. I am a full-time professional writer, specializing in technical writing for computers and business communications. Currently, I work full-time for a software company under the mildly illustrious title of Senior Technical Writer. I also am a full-time musician, performing as a pianist, harpist, guitarist and vocalist. I specialize in Renaissance music, theater, weddings, receptions and special events. Eventually, I'm working on phasing out the office job and actually using my master's in music to teach classical and popular piano. Oh, and by the way, while I'm responding to subjects on the list.... I am a man, and I have both a soul and an ego. (To the writer who implied that men have only egos, please note that all men do have souls, and ALL women do have egos. Wrestle with that!) Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 06:51:40 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC > > Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? > Maybe "All you need is love" would qualify, since the way they combine the > um-pah sing-along with the 7/8 time is a striking accomplishment...? > > Bruce > Eleanor Rigby She's Leaving Home A Day in the Life My Guitar Gently Weeps just a few... Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:10:14 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/3/00 8:00:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? >> surely,"Strawberry Fields Forever" would fit the bill. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:18:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Scottish Joni fans Welcome to our list, Anna. sorry to hear you had such a harsh upbringing. I am in the UK and several of us are. take care colin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 15:27:49 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Professions of Listers > > > (To the writer who implied that men have only egos, please note that all men > do have souls, and ALL women do have egos. Wrestle with that!) and not only that. without an ego no human being would survive. > > > Regards, > > Harper Lou - -- why are they called apartments when they are all stuck together? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:22:40 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/3/00 7:54:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << Now take a most sincere song: "Dear Prudence," John's song to his lost mother. It's a simple and relatively unassuming song, which is very much part of its tenderness. >> "Julia" is the song to John's mother. "Dear Prudence" is about Mia Farrow's sister. But you are correct that they did not ALWAYS combine their ambition and sincerity. However, the examples you cite are the extremes that would show they did not, instead of songs like "Tomorrow Never Knows" and "Within You and Without You" that would show they did. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:27:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/3/00 10:10:14 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211 writes: << In a message dated 8/3/00 8:00:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? >> surely,"Strawberry Fields Forever" would fit the bill. >> I'm not sure how high that one ranks on the sincerity scale. Perhaps there are better examples. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:24:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Aretha - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Speaking of Aretha, did anyone catch the 100 > greatest TV moments where she > was singing opera? WOW- it made me weep. Is any of this available on a CD? That is something I'd really love to hear! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 12:50:23 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Aretha Catherine McKay wrote: > --- Kate Bennett wrote: > > Speaking of Aretha, did anyone catch the 100 > > greatest TV moments where she > > was singing opera? WOW- it made me weep. > > Is any of this available on a CD? That is something > I'd really love to hear! It is available on Ultimate Divas. It is played about 100 times a night at a local gay bar I hang out at. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 12:50:31 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) In a message dated 8/3/00 7:20:28 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? >> What planet is this question from? I mean did Dennis Miller invent this combination. What pray tell is an 'ambitious' song. In an "I want to make money with this song" sense or "Im going to push the envelope production wise". marcel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 11:57:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) Marcel responds in puzzlement to Relayer: > << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, > unusual & also sincere? >> > > What planet is this question from? I mean did Dennis > Miller invent this > combination. What pray tell is an 'ambitious' song. > In an "I want to make > money with this song" sense or "Im going to push the > envelope production > wise". marcel Let me see if I can clarify this ... an "ambitious" song is one which sounds like no other song that has come before it -- it will be longer, use a variety and sequence of chords played from some other note than the root. It will also use a much higher number of instruments than "garden variety", "unusual" or "sincere" songs. Bruce Springsteen's early approach of "let's all play as fast as we can all at once" arrangements for the E-Street band pushed his work from the "unusual" into the "ambitious" department. "Unusual" songs are frequently mistaken for ambitious songs, as they share many of the same features ... but these are uniformly shorter in length ... nor must they require symphonic arrangements. A four-minute augmented minor 7th chord blues song is "unusual." A 17-minute augmented minor 7th chord blues song would, in fact be ambitious. "Sincere" songs are songs that don't even have to be good musically, so long as the lyrical content and vocal performance convey honesty. They say what they mean, and mean what they say -- which typically leaves all other issues of construction, arranging and ensemble size moot. Rush's 2112 -- for example, is the perfectly "ambitious and sincerely unusual" song. Hope this helps. Don Rowe ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:12:05 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) In a message dated 8/3/00 12:50:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1 writes: << r "Im going to push the envelope production wise". marcel >> Not necessarily production, but ambitiousi n the sense that it breaks new ground musically, like Hendrix, Joni or the Beatles or others. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1904 23:39:30 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Napster Is that a cover of the Jerry Rafferty song? Paul I Negative. It was apparently and original of hers from an early album no longer available. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 16:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) - --- MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/3/00 7:20:28 AM Pacific > Daylight Time, > Relayer211@aol.com writes: > > << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, > unusual & also sincere? >> > > What planet is this question from? I mean did Dennis > Miller invent this > combination. What pray tell is an 'ambitious' song. > In an "I want to make > money with this song" sense or "Im going to push the > envelope production > wise". marcel ... which might make it an EGO song, which would nullify the "sincere" bit, n'est-ce pas? Would "ambitious" include anything with more than three chords, or with lyrics containing x-number of words over 2 syllables? I agree with Marcel - for once ;)It's kind of silly and it's all a matter of opinion and taste (or lack thereof, if you happen to disagree with the other person's choice.) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 13:34:04 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: Red Riding Hood oppresses Wolf (OT) >>> Red Riding Hood oppresses Wolf: >>> >>> There once was a young person named Little Red Riding Hood who lived >>> on the edge of a large forest full of endangered owls and rare plants >>> that would probably provide a cure for cancer if only someone took the >>> time to study them. >>> >>> Red Riding Hood lived with a nurture-giver whom she sometimes referred >>> to as "Mother," although she didn't mean to imply by this term that >>> she would have thought less of the person if a close biological link >>> did not, in fact, exist. >>> >>> Nor did she intend to denigrate the equal value of nontraditional >>> households, although she was sorry if this was the impression >>> conveyed. >>> >>> One day her mother asked her to take a basket of organically grown >>> fruit and mineral water to her grandmother's house. >>> >>> "But Mother, won't this be stealing work from the unionized people who >>> have struggled for years to earn the right to carry all packages >>> between various people in the woods?" >>> >>> Red Riding Hood's mother assured her that she had called the union >>> boss and gotten a special compassionate mission exemption form. >>> >>> "But, Mother, aren't you oppressing me by ordering me to do this?" >>> >>> Red Riding Hood's mother pointed out that it was impossible for women >>> to oppress each other, since all women were equally oppressed until >>> all women were free. >>> >>> "But, Mother, then shouldn't you have my brother carry the basket, >>> since he's an oppressor, and should learn what it's like to be >>> oppressed?" >>> >>> And Red Riding Hood's mother explained that her brother was attending >>> a special rally for animal rights, and besides, this wasn't >>> stereotypical women's work, but an empowering deed that would help >>> engender a feeling of community. >>> >>> "But won't I be oppressing Grandma, by implying that she's sick and >>> hence unable to independently further her own selfhood?" >>> >>> But Red Riding Hood's mother explained that her grandmother wasn't >>> actually sick or incapacitated or mentally handicapped in any way, >>> although that was not to imply that any of these conditions were >>> inferior to what some people called "health." >>> >>> Thus Red Riding Hood felt that she could get behind the idea of >>> delivering the basket to her grandmother, and so she set off. >>> >>> Many people believed that the forest was a foreboding and dangerous >>> place, but Red Riding Hood knew that this was an irrational fear based >>> on cultural paradigms instilled by a patriarchal society that regarded >>> the natural world as an exploitable resource, and hence believed that >>> natural predators were, in fact, intolerable competitors. >>> >>> Other people avoided the woods for fear of thieves and deviants, but >>> Red Riding Hood felt that, in a truly classless society, all >>> marginalized peoples would be able to "come out" of the woods and be >>> accepted as valid lifestyle role models. >>> >>> On her way to Grandma's house, Red Riding Hood passed a woodchopper, >>> and wandered off the path in order to examine some flowers. >>> >>> She was startled to find herself standing before a wolf, who asked her >>> what was in her basket. >>> >>> Red Riding Hood's teacher had warned her never to talk to strangers, >>> but she was confident in taking control of her own budding sexuality, >>> and chose to dialog with the wolf. >>> >>> She replied, "I am taking my grandmother some healthful snacks in a >>> gesture of solidarity." >>> >>> The wolf said, "You know, my dear, it isn't safe for a little girl to >>> walk through these woods alone." >>> >>> Red Riding Hood said, "I find your sexist remark offensive in the >>> extreme, but I will ignore it because of your traditional status as an >>> outcast from society, the stress of which has caused you to develop an >>> alternative and yet entirely valid worldview. Now, if you'll excuse >>> me, I would prefer to be on my way." >>> >>> Red Riding Hood returned to the main path, and proceeded toward her >>> grandmother's house. >>> >>> But because his status outside society had freed him from slavish >>> adherence to linear, Western-style thought, the Wolf knew of a quicker >>> route to Grandma's house. >>> >>> He burst into the house and ate Grandma, a course of action >>> affirmative of his nature as a predator. >>> >>> Then, unhampered by rigid, traditionalist gender-role notions, he put >>> on Grandma's nightclothes, crawled under the bedclothes, and awaited >>> developments. >>> >>> Red Riding Hood entered the cottage and said, "Grandma, I have brought >>> you some cruelty-free snacks to salute you in your role of wise and >>> nurturing matriarch." >>> >>> The wolf said softly, "Come closer, child, so that I might see you." >>> >>> Red Riding Hood said, "Goodness! Grandma, what big eyes you have!" >>> >>> "You forget that I am optically challenged." >>> >>> "And Grandma, what an enormous - er - what a fine nose you have." >>> >>> "Naturally, I could have had it fixed to help my acting career, but I >>> didn't give in to such societal pressures, my child." >>> >>> "And Grandma, what very big, sharp teeth you have!" >>> >>> The wolf could not take any more of these specialist slurs, and, in a >>> reaction appropriate for his accustomed milieu, he leaped out of bed, >>> grabbed Little Red Riding Hood, and opened his jaws so wide that she >>> could see her poor grandmother cowering in his belly. >>> >>> "Aren't you forgetting something?" Red Riding Hood bravely shouted. >>> "You must request my permission before proceeding to a new level of >>> intimacy!" >>> >>> The wolf was so startled by this statement that he loosened his grasp >>> on her. >>> >>> At the same time, the woodchopper burst into the cottage, brandishing >>> an ax. >>> >>> "Hands off!" cried the woodchopper. >>> >>> "And what do you think you're doing?" cried Little Red Riding Hood. >>> "If I let you help me now, I would be expressing a lack of confidence >>> in my own abilities, which would lead to poor self-esteem and lower >>> achievement scores on college entrance exams." >>> >>> "Last chance, sister! Get your hands off that endangered species! This >>> is an FBI sting!" screamed the woodchopper, and when Little Red Riding >>> Hood nonetheless made a sudden motion, he sliced off her head. >>> >>> "Thank goodness you got here in time," said the wolf. "The brat and >>> her grandmother lured me in here. I thought I was a goner." >>> >>> "No, I think I'm the real victim, here," said the woodchopper. "I've >>> been dealing with my anger ever since I saw her picking those >>> protected flowers earlier. And now I'm going to have such a trauma. Do >>> you have any aspirin?" >>> >>> "Sure," said the wolf. >>> >>> "Thanks." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 17:50:51 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC(md) In a message dated 8/3/00 12:24:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << Not necessarily production, but ambitiousi n the sense that it breaks new ground musically, like Hendrix, Joni or the Beatles or others. >> This is getting deeper by the minute. How many albums in history have "broken new ground". I can only think of a few and they might flunk on the other parameters which means NONE as far as those who were sensetive, ambitious, and whatever. Oh well. mmmmmmarcel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:02:52 EDT From: EVRIBUTJON@aol.com Subject: Re: What are the professions of the JMDL? Hi Everybody, I am a buyer for a mailorder video company. And yes, we sell Joni. (Quite well, actually, because someone at the company makes sure artwork of her goes in our main catalog and all our supplements. Hmmm..who could that be?) I also got to write the description for PWWAM for the main catalog. I am teased about my magnificent obsession, but I have a network of people there who bring me articles etc. of anything Joni. John ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:09:01 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: FAST RESPONSE lithos at Canada!! HELP!!! Real Quick, Anyone who went to the Mendel, Did you notice any SIGNED Lithos of Joni's there? I am looking for the TI one that was available at the Dylan Tour a couple years back. I need to know, ASAP! Thanks!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 20:30:29 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Joni should have gone to Woodstock! I saw the VH1 clip of Joni and co.on the Dick Cavett Show,and Joni talking about how she regtrets not going to The Woodstock festival. I think it's ridiculous that she didn't go,because of her managers advise.CS&N and Grace Slick had no trouble getting from the festival to the program on time,why should Joni have? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 18:51:41 -0000 From: "alan larson" Subject: Re: Professions I used to teach high school English, and I credit Joni to some degree for instilling in me a love of words and stories. To me, she is a great storyteller and the ultimate songwriter, too. Blue and For the Roses were the two I credit the most for guiding me in the direction of literature and poetry. Perhaps the greatest thing about teaching for me was seeing improvement in students' writings when they finally realize that there is no right and wrong in writing, and that spelling and punctuation don't count nearly as much as so many teachers in their past led them to believe. Most of Joni's early stuff to me is so precious that I view them like I do James Taylor's best stuff: songs that don't follow an inflexible pattern, but grow and twist and build to that most magnificent of endings. Even songs that are built around a basic folk pattern can do that, thinking of Talking Old Soldiers by Elton John, or Taxi by Harry Chapin. I'm now studying web design and working part time for a property management company. I would like to know what others are using to put music on web pages: Real Audio, streaming technology with Real Producer, or MP3's, or ??? Thanks in advance for sharing. Maybe someone knows of a great web site that explains what all is available, and the pros and cons of each one. It's been very interesting seeing what everyone's career is. The odd thing about the Napster thing is that I would just bet that they could charge for the service, pay a reduced royalty (agreed upon by both parties), and it would still be wildly successful. I know I was tickled to hear a song on TV (Reasons Why by Nickel Creek), download the song and be jamming with it within minutes. And yes, it did convince me to buy the cd. I'd be willing to pay a few dollars every time I heard a great song like that that I wanted to learn. My heroes in life are the ones who can make money from their art... whether it be visual or performing or dance or even athletic, and then share their gift with everyone. But does it seem like there are fewer heroes around these days? alan in ames ps. thanks Les for mentioning one of my all time "soulful" singers, Michael Johnson, and, of course, David Wilcox... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 18:15:07 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Ferron Pegged (LJC?) hi susan! You wrote: >People (including those at MP3) seem to have a driving need to categorize everything including each other...like two year olds with those wooden learning tools where they match the 3d shapes to the holes in a board ;~D The reality is that people are complex: some of us more so than others...In my opinion, for what it's worth, neither Joni nor Ferron are shaped to fit any known board and for this alone I salute them! On top of this they are both excellent poets...Unfortunately, for so many people the unknown strikes terror to their cores when it should be great cause for happy excitement! What is your opinion Pat?> mmm... my opinion? well, if it's relevant for me to be able to enjoy and appreciate the art I guess the info is welcome... but the problem with categories and pigeonholes is not the category itself, but the inherant exclusion from other areas... as if this is the only area you can speak on or write about. it's all very curious to me... not only the people who categorize but those who accept and even embrace the labels and brandish them prominantly for all to see as if to say 'this is all I am and all I know'. I would never limit myself so. just try labeling me and you will find your label lying by the side of the road for I shan't accept it! simple as that. then peg wrote: >Hi P Henry, As I suggested in an earlier post, Ferron was pigeon-holed immediately because she was way out of the closet from the inception of her career. There may be some truth to the suggestion that she was kidnapped by the "women's music" market. There is NOTHING exclusive in her lyrics. Like everyone else, she is lots of things. Formost a poet, a singer & a musician ; an authentic artist of the highest order and a brilliant person. IMHO, the gay label has been a profound impediment to her career. The fact that MP3 has to call her "lesbian, gay" folk agitates me to no end.> ...exactly my point. 'nuff said! and colin added: >possibly because she is a lesbian.> duh! ya think? LoL!!! susan, you're right in looking to our Joni as a good example. in fact, I can think of no one who has so successfully escaped categories in a field where most make their mark mainly by strongly identifying with one or the other. pat NP: Just Like Me http://homepages.go.com/~badwolff/albums/album1/ Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 01:32:21 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: response to Bruce Merrill re: John Lennon's song to mom Bruce, I thought that "Julia" was the song John Lennon wrote in tribute to his mother. It certainly fits your description better." CC "Molly McGee gets her tea leaves read. You'll be married in a month they say." -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:10:55 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Scottish Joni fans "I'm always running behind the times, like most digesters..." Hello Anna Ruth MacLean! You asked (( how many of the 600 people on this mailing list are Scottish too.)) I have some Scottish ancestors but like lots of Americans, I am a bit of a mutt in that I also have French (see the name!), English, and Irish and who knows what else! At some point, I lost track. I think Les once said that he doesn't know where listers are because all he has is a list of email addresses. Working in the other direction, you have tapped into a group that is distinguished by its geographical diversity. The list was organized by Les, somewhere near America's Rocky Mountains. There are lots of Canucks in Canada, and quite a vocal lot over in England. At least two in the Netherlands. Claudia was born in Dusseldorf, Germany. Lori lives in France (near the Swisse border). Marian is in Austria when she's not traveling. :) We had a lister from Japan but I haven't heard from that corner for at least a year. Then there's NZ, Australia, and Guam. Anna said, [[ I can only say that listening to Blue at night on a personal stereo was an emotional experience which has influenced who I am. ]] Yes, indeed.......... That sentence summarizes Joni for me too. There are many of us who feel that Joni "has influenced who I am." It's a profound thing to say, Anna, and I hope to hear more from 'ya. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:37:41 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? >> There's a Beatles song that Sir Paul wrote for Julian Lennon when Jules was going through a tough time (possibly John's divorce?) It was a heartfelt, sincere wish for good things and faith to carry on. But it was more. It was a song with an extremely long fade that shattered the 3 minute barrier that for so long was the iron rule in pop radio. It was hypnotic, beautiful, and a wonderful piece of rock 'n roll scat singing ala Little Richard. It was Hey Jude. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 23:15:38 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/3/00 11:07:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << << Is there a Beatles song which is both ambitious, unusual & also sincere? >> There's a Beatles song that Sir Paul wrote for Julian Lennon when Jules was going through a tough time (possibly John's divorce?) It was a heartfelt, sincere wish for good things and faith to carry on. But it was more. It was a song with an extremely long fade that shattered the 3 minute barrier that for so long was the iron rule in pop radio. It was hypnotic, beautiful, and a wonderful piece of rock 'n roll scat singing ala Little Richard. It was Hey Jude. >> And I read somewhere a long time ago thatwhen it was first suggested to Wilson Pickett that he cover that song, he refused because he thought it was not a good idea to sing a song titled "Hey Jew". Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 01:08:08 EDT From: BMGKotler@aol.com Subject: Re: Professions of JMDLs Public defender for kids accused of committing crimes (aka juvenile delinquents) and a mom. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 08:00:39 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Scottish Joni Fans Hello Anna Welcome to the list! Great place isn't it? There isn't much about Joni that doesn't make it to these pages. I too am Scottish, from Ross and Cromarty in the highlands. A beautiful place where palm trees grow wild on the west of the county. Bet not many listers realise that little fact! These days, due initially to economic reasons, I live in London where you are never far from a crowd. I miss the solitude of home but not the loneliness. I saw Joni the last time she played in Scotland just after Wild Things Run Fast came out. She played two nights in Edinburgh. I saw her on the second night. The reviews from her first night were pretty bad so she was in a foul mood. She had had the temerity to play in front of an electric band for her set and the critics were very peeved that she had foresaken her lonely voice at the guitar routine and favoured this format instead. One of them said the show was too loud. She commented on this and treated us that night to a defeaning Song for Sharon full of howling guitars and thunderous bass. Made the hair on my neck stand up. Angry Sharon! She then went on to recount a story of a neighbour of hers when she was a kid. She reminded us how in those days oranges were sold wrapped up in a square of tissue paper. This old Scottish guy who lived near her used to save these papers to use as toilet paper. She let the story hang there leaving us, the audience, to deliberate on our in inherent meaness. Well, you can imagine that went down like a lead balloon - something about which she was to sing many years later. I was furious myself. I couldn't understand why she would treat us that way when the place was packed to the rafters and Joni in Scotland was like the second coming of Christ - forgive my profanity! Why? I felt like walking out, I was so hurt that she should dislike us all that way. I had placed Joni on a pedestal way, way above the clouds. For me she was a saint. I believed at the time that I couldn't have made it through my youth but for the presence of her music and her expressed wisdom. Well, I learned that night, that she had feet of clay like the rest of us and that between the art and the artist is an unknown world of difference. It took a while but I took the lesson from that. It made the woman real. It made the art more remarkable. Like you I had a restricted exposure to the media when I was young. The TV and Radio were only ever switched on for the news and then nothing. But there came some industrial development to the area and in its wake a bunch of American families arrived, the parents of which were like the experts helping to set things up. Now their kids were seriously exotic. Sun tans, long sun-bleached hair, strange voices, strangely smelling cigarettes and some full-on music. Oh my god! A lot of stuff to take in. Well, that was the slippery slope. Everything changed in my village after that. A couple of years later, and by way of Black Sabbath and Yes, I ended up at Joni's 'door'. Now there's always something interesting to hear 'round Joni's house. Later Les (London) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #319 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?