From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #318 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, August 3 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 318 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Napster ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Joni painting for sale [Deb Messling ] Profession ["Van Metre, Gordon" ] occupation poll ["John Stilwell" ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos? [B Merrill ] Re: Men have no soul only egos? (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: Ferron ["Peg Eves" ] Saskatoon Withdrawal ["kerry" ] Fwd: Re: Napster [Mark Domyancich ] Re: male songwriters [B Merrill ] Re: women in the arts & P Poland [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: male songwriters [Erin Stoy ] profession [Leslie Shapiro ] Jonatha and the evil "N" (but there IS Joni content!) [FredNow@aol.com] re: men have no soul only egos ["John Stilwell" ] A Sunny Sunday ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) ["Kakki" ] re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [B Merrill ] Professions & Intellectual Property ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: who is "w.o.h.a.m." about? [Kenny Grant ] Re: A Sunny Sunday [Kenny Grant ] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Shiny Toys!and The Sims ["Ken (slarty)" ] Aretha ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Napster [Michael Paz ] Re: Napster [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 04:02:01 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC Paul, just because you collect it for everyone doesn't mean that you dole it out that way. All you have to do is keep track of how many Metallica downloads there are and give them their portion. Brenda proposed: <> Paul shot back: How do you do that if you are not COLLECTING them that way, but in some sort of monthly subscription or cafeteria plan? It doesn't work. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati npimh: Dole's speech ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 04:44:10 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: For The Roses I agree with most people that Joni is not talking about horses in this song. She's drawing an analogy between a worn out horse and a one-hit wonder pop star. My favorite part of the song is when Joni sees herself doing what she hates her audience for doing: "Now I sit up here, the Critic! as they introduce some new band. But they seem (like) so much pink confetti, looking at 'em on my TV set." (from the morally bankrupt live BSN tapes- God do I love 'em!) Joni said, > That's when 'ya take a horse and 'ya know, like > he's chargin' into the finish line and they > throw a wreath of flowers around his neck > and uh... > Then one day, > they take him out and > shoot him. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 04:45:47 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC In a message dated 8/2/00 4:06:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << Paul, just because you collect it for everyone doesn't mean that you dole it out that way. All you have to do is keep track of how many Metallica downloads there are and give them their portion. >> Except that if someone is paying $20 a month, or whatever the subscription fee is, he will most likely be downloading everything for everyone on his block or in his dorm, because there would be no limits (other than the number of minutes in a month) on how much he or she can download. That will result in miniscule royalties for each download, at least compared with what is paid by a person who goes the traditional route and buys the CD. The portion going to the artists would probably be further diminished by "administrative" and "handling" fees tacked on by Napster and the recording companies, once again leaving the deserving artists with too small a piece of the pie. Still a ripoff for the artists, IMO. I would send Napster to the devil where they belong. They and their brothers are an insidious development in electronic media. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:52:02 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Napster Michael wrote: >Someone I was speakinf to here at the hospital asked me >about Napster when they found out I was in the biz and told me that they >will NEVER BUY A CD EVER AGAIN! This is dreadful news for ALL artists. >Just ask Fred Simon, Kate Bennett, Victor Johnson, or any of the other >songwriters that make their daily bread from selling music either on >recorded form or live. Believe it or not there are tons of people out >there that can justify themselves ripping off musicians, software >developers, screen artists, or whatever just to get FREE stuff. I like >free stuff as much as the next person, but I believe there has to be >limitations in this whole issue. I am sure we have not heard the end of >it either. I just imagine how I'd feel if I went to work tomorrow, and they said, "Oh, sorry Helen, you're fired. We found someone to do your job for free, so we don't need you anymore." It's not quite the same as the Napster thing, but I think I can see how Fred, Kate and Victor would feel. Like Michael, I love free stuff, but not at the expense of someone's livelihood. My joining a tape-tree to get a copy of Joni at the BBC in 1970, is not taking food out of Joni's mouth. Downloading an album's worth of her songs from Napster, instead of buying the CD, is. Then again, my making a tape of Kiwi music for my American/Canadian friends is probably wrong, but how else are they going to hear this great music (some of it is not available on CD)? Like I and others have said before, it's a black, white and grey issue, and Michael's right, we've definitely not heard the end of it. Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 06:36:34 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni painting for sale You know you're really a Joni addict when $30K doesn't sound so bad! I'd rather buy a Joni painting than some dumb car or something. At 09:29 PM 8/1/00 -0400, you wrote: ><< Was $40K, now reduced to $29K.... > > Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 07:35:15 -0500 From: "Van Metre, Gordon" Subject: Profession I'm a Customer Service Rep at a manufacturing company. I speak French so I handle the Canadian accounts. Last place I did the same thing, 'cept I dealt with France, Belgium, Italy, and Canada. I've done this sort of work for about 6 years. Before that I taught French as a part-timer at Kent State University, and since the money sucked so bad, I also scrambled around doing lots of stuff on the side, such as translating and interpreting, tutoring (as enjoyable as gum surgery!), editing, proofreading, teaching computer applications, temping as a word-processor, and running a translation/interpreting service at the International Institute of Akron, a small social service agency serving the foreign-born. That last one was my ALL TIME FAVORITE job, except the money was even worse than the university and the Director of the agency was embarrassingly stupid. Went to the private sector in search of health insurance benefits. I must agree with Susan L.A., this system is nothing short of cruel. If I had my druthers, I'd continue in the same vein of work, except I'd actually get to travel a few times a year (preferably to Europe). Geez! It sounds like I'm applying for a job! ... of course, if anyone has one to offer... Gordon in Kent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 12:59:24 GMT From: "John Stilwell" Subject: occupation poll two jobs: Office Manager/Controller Part Time Software Developer No time to write anything else, gotta go to work! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:01:58 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 9:12:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one there folks...) >> Can I toss Daryl Hall in that mix? Not kidding! No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 09:01:55 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos? Hi Marcel and All, As the original begetter of this wandering thread, let me say for the nth time!, that I am NOT holding that men cannot sing expressively or sincerely. I was suggesting that they are less likely to combine their ambition as songwriters & musicians with expressivity and sincerity. So, this point is not refuted by noting that Little Richard & Big Luciano sing with soul. Rather, it is to be refuted (or not!) by citing albums & songs which combine the ambition, extraordinary intelligence and sophistication that "our Joni" displays in HOSL (and ditto for Kate B in "the Dreaming") with the sincerity and expressivity that these excellent women also display-- in intimate combination with their great ambition. Got it? So, can you come up with such an excellent man, a singer-songwriter who COMBINES high ambition and intense sincerity to a degree which approaches amazing Joni & Kate? If you can, I'd love to hear about it. And thank you Erin!, who advanced Paul Simon's Graceland as an instance of what I was looking for. And someone else mentioned Van Morrison, which brought to mind his ambitious AND expressive "Astral Weeks," which COMBINES these two, n'est-ce pas? And, to repeat, my own instance: Andy Pratt circa 1973, who sang intensely, from the heart, and was also committed to original, impressive songs. By contrast, the antithesis of what I'm looking for is so-called "progessive" rock (a male bastion?) which is deliberately complicated and original, but is also (to me) often empty, since it does not connect with sincere expression. And the ne plus ultra of what I'm celebrating, a song which is complicated and original, but ALSO passionately sincere and expressive is Kate's "Get out of My House," a jaw-dropping masterpiece. Bruce PS Or maybe Mr Penniman's "Bama-Lama-Bama-Loo" offers all the ambition of Kate's "Pull out the Pin"? Or Mr. Pavrotte has composed a brilliant "total work" concept album, ("the Glissando in a Tuscan Sunset?"), that I don't know about? I'm looking forward to learning as much. ><< A corollary might well be that mostly women sing from the soul and men >from the ego. >> > >I have watched and read this thread and it has been stunning in its >seriousness.This is a joke. Are y'all kidding or what. Who on earth can make >a judgement like this. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, >Elvis, Steve Winwood, all had no soul ? They all sang for ego ? Is this what >is being suggested? This thread would be called sexist if the subject was >reversed. I cant stop laughing. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:29:11 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos? (md) In a message dated 8/2/00 6:04:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << Rather, it is to be refuted (or not!) by citing albums & songs. which combine the ambition, extraordinary intelligence and sophistication that "our Joni" displays in HOSL (and ditto for Kate B in "the Dreaming") with the sincerity and expressivity that these excellent women also display-- in intimate combination with their great mbition. Got it? >> To begin, the words "expressivity and sincerity" are about as subjective as you can get. Like the word "feeling". Did he sing with feeling just because his voice was fantastic? That is totally subjective and one could dismiss anything with those words as the judgemental catalyst. Also you are adding other factors now perhaps to obfuscate the sexist overtones of the original statements and qualifications. Frankly Bookends was every bit as intelligent and sensetive to me as anything Joni has done although again subjectivity allows for realative views. The question I addresss was whether Pavrotti sings with soul. Is someone going to say he doesnt. They could, millions would disagree, but according to your parameters they could and rhetorically succeed. Although I could if given enough time come up with many more I would submit that the following albums qualify as equals easily to anything nearly any other artist has ever done in this category. Intelligence. Sensetivity. Expressivity. The three great stimulants of the Joniphiles. Tommy...Peter Townshend Quadrophoeneia...Peter Townshend Goodbye Yellow Brick Road...Elton John Abbey Road...The Beatles Avalon...Roxy Music Bookends.....Simon & Garfinkle I need to go home and go through my collection. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:18:03 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Ferron Whoa. What? I've been loving your posts and feeling exactly THAT! That we were pulling together. I'm certainly sorry if I offended you. How'd I do that? In earnest, Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: Slac [mailto:ondulees@telus.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:54 PM > To: peves@marlboro.edu > Subject: Ferron > > > Hi Peg, > > I am not the enemy...I would like to know why you are ignoring and > excluding me from this conversation when we are basically voicing the > same views? Wouldn't it be better if we pulled for Ferron together? What > exactly is it that you object to? Humour? > > Thankyou for your consideration, > > Susan L.A. > I am your angel ;~) > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 09:55:45 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Saskatoon Withdrawal Hey, Saskatoon Travelers! I'm having withdrawal from not hearing from you, lately! Let me know how your summer is going! Kerry, missing the land of toonies and loonies... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:15:27 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Fwd: Re: Napster I guess I didn't take this into consideration. I knew Michael was in the music business but I didn't know one of the aspects of his job is to promote music via prerelease material. I didn't mean to call Michael a Judas but I didn't see a difference between someone uploading a full prerelease album and giving away copies of it. I'm very sure when people download full albums off of Napster of prerelease material they are the same ones in line buying it next Tuesday. Sorry if I offended you, Michael. I didn't mean it the way it sounded. NP-Poor Devils, 7/8/91 >Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 11:06:17 +0000 >From: Michael Paz >Reply-To: michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net >Organization: The Paz Group >To: Mark Domyancich >Subject: Re: Napster > >Actually, I didn't even make a copy for anyone at all. I don't think I >even had a burner at that time (not that I would have made a copy for >anyone of an actual release) I did get three total promo copies though. >They were released to the record stores as promo copies which is >something I excel at (promotion of music that is). I gave those copies >to certain friends who I am SURE bought actual releases as well. After >the release I bought 10 or so copies to give as presents and gifts to >friends. Joni herself distributed copies to her friends and inner circle >and I am sure they shared. The differnece with me is, I HAVE to have >promo copies, and real store bought copies. I can't help it, it's the >slut in me. > >Later > >Michael - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 11:18:09 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: male songwriters Erin Stoy wrote: >Yeah, actually in my undergrad days I wrote a paper >for a class called Traditional and Popular African >Musics about the controversy over the Graceland album. > It was amazing the things people said about Paul... Yes, in one clip a group of Africans musicians were grumbling about Paul borrowing from their culture-- w/o thinking twice about what they had already borrowed from European culture. Starting with: their instruments. Tho I did come upon an interview with Los Lobos where they were complaining about how PS ripped off their rhythm track w/o credit. And I believe them. Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 11:38:28 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: women in the arts & P Poland In a message dated 8/1/00 10:25:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << Bob, To answer your question, I agree with you about this, it bugs me too. You wrote "but it always strikes me as sexist when gender is used to define women in the arts. It just seems like the media's way of subtly creating a subclass (female) of people within a category. I wonder if it bugs Joni and other women in the arts as much as it bugs me. >> I have read and heard Joni, on more than one occasion, go off about being put into a category of "female" singer/songwrioters. She has stated that she has more in common with many of the males than she does the females she is being compared to. My take on her comments about this is that she is very bothered by this and feels that it is a way of "reducing" female artist's accomplishments (rarely does one read an article about "male singer/sonwriters, etc."). Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 08:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: Re: male songwriters Yes, Los Lobos did seem to get a raw deal from the whole affair. Strange how Paul Simon was so careful and generous (monetarily and in terms of giving credit) with the S. African musicians, yet seemingly insensitive towards the Mexican-American ones. - --- B Merrill wrote: > Yes, in one clip a group of Africans musicians were > grumbling about Paul > borrowing from their culture-- w/o thinking twice > about what they had > already borrowed from European culture. Starting > with: their instruments. > > Tho I did come upon an interview with Los Lobos > where they were complaining > about how PS ripped off their rhythm track w/o > credit. And I believe them. > > Bruce > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:18:29 -0400 From: Leslie Shapiro Subject: profession I treat obsessive compulsive disorder. My dirty little secret is my "obsession" with Joni; too far gone for help! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:33:06 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Jonatha and the evil "N" (but there IS Joni content!) "Kakki" >>I'm still convinced [Jonatha Brooke] is one of the very rare ones that >>only emerge every 20-30 years or so like Joni and Laura Nyro. She is truly >>phenomenal. Many of her alt tunings and much of her musicality rivals Joni. At the risk of firing off just another "me, too" post ... I completely agree. I would only add Shawn Colvin to make it a quartet. - -Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:36:34 GMT From: "John Stilwell" Subject: re: men have no soul only egos *********By contrast, the antithesis of what I'm looking for is so-called "progessive" rock (a male bastion?) which is deliberately complicated and original, but is also (to me) often empty, since it does not connect with sincere expression. I think the two keys to this statement is the (to me) and the word connect. You may not connect with it. I'd like to know which progressive rock you are alluding to. I really connect with "Deliberately complicated music that does not connect with sincere expression". There is no more sincere expression IMO than an artist's mastery of an instrument or singing or lyrical style! Complicated music is usually complicated because one has reached the absolute pinnacle of his or her playing ability and is now pushing the limits of Expression! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 13:58:28 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: A Sunny Sunday Yes, Mr. Bruce It is hard to compare Many artists (male and Female) to some such as Joni and Kate. I mean Aretha Franklin can sing but, she never conceptualized like Joni Or Kate. "The hounds of Love" is a very deep and somewhat disturbing/beautiful ablum that not-a-many human being could conjure up. And when you think of it, it is hard to think of a male conterpart to the "Joni/Kate" ideal.. I mean... It sure isnt Emerson Lake and Palmer. And that was a fascinating story about Zappa, cassy.. I have read alot and I havent come across any story of that Penis incident happening..but I belive it!! I wish i was there. I guess it is like seeing Van Morrison in Concert.. you know?? you have this 50/50 chance of getting a good show.. HE could storm off stage or spatter drunk comments to the audience..or it could be the most emotional music coming out of a white soul man one person has ever heard.. see ya ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 12:15:34 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) Lori wrote: > When Brian Gross and I saw Jonatha in October '99 > (thanks for correcting me regarding the month, Bri), > Brian yelled out something about the possibility of > her using the VG-8. Jonatha replied (paraphrased) > that she has one, but prefers the sound of her > amplified acoustic. (I'm with her; I think the V-8 > makes the guitar sound too tinny and because of that, > I still haven't really warmed to TTT.) I was struck last night at hearing so many gorgeous, Joni-fied tunings played in the old-fashioned, acoustic way. This will probably sound horrible but anyone who misses hearing Joni's acoustic guitar can get quite a nice fix listening to Jonatha play at a live show. But geez, it takes a lot of hard work - even with the assistant working non-stop to keep retuning the four guitars, Jonatha also had to do some "fine tuning" throughout the night. Just like Joni in the old days, these breaks gave her the chance great stage banter. The VG-8 just can't compare to the amplified acoustic in sound splendor. Joni pretty much had to go to the VG-8 because of her physical limitations brought on by her post polio syndrome. She had to do what she had to do. > I take it "Bleeker Street" is a song from the new, > as-yet-unreleased, album? No, it's a song she covered on an album that came out a couple years ago that was a tribute by a number of artists to the Bleeker Street musicians of Greenwich Village from the old days. Pearl and her husband gifted me with it when they visited here last year. It is a beautiful album. Last night Jonatha joked that she only sang it once and doesn't remember the words anymore. (She was still irked by the guy in the crowd ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:07:41 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) <> Certainly doesn't sound horrible to me, Kakki, I understand you completely! When I saw Jonatha about a year ago here in town (and Victor was also there), I felt like the people who saw those early Second Fret shows must have felt. btw, Victor, that club (The Handlebar) is relocating to a slightly larger venue so they can start booking some bigger acts! To close down their club and raise some moving money, they're having a "Cash For Cash" show, local bands playing Johnny Cash tunes with all funds going to the club. They've also done Beatles & Dylan tribute funraisers, maybe I can talk them into a Joni one! Bob NP: Gin Blossoms, "Until I Fall Away" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:11:20 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Books & Textbooks Codes Get your textbooks for alot less. Some of these stores carry other books too.........including some of the recent books on Joni. http://www.VarsityBooks.com $10 off $90. Code: OFFER291 $10 off $90. Code: UK845 Free 2 day shipping with $25 order. Code: AP533 Free 2 day shipping with $25 order. Code: TRIP1613196 If you're gonna buy from varsitybook.com, you can also sign up with edu.com to get two $25 codes to apply to your orders. You'll need to go to varsitybooks through the edu.com website, thus you can use a varsitybooks coupon and redeem the edu.com coupon as well (after you have your order number from varsitybooks. You also don't have to buy the full amount in order to get the full rebate. Also your purchases get you points towards stuff like cds. http://www.textbooks.com Guaranteed 3 Day Delivery for a flat rate of $4.95 New and Used Textbooks, save up to 50%! New books with the textbooks.com Guaranteed Buy Back stamp save you the most money. We tell you before you buy that you'll get guaranteed money back! 10% discount to all Student Advantage members. Free Shipping. Code: 4024514648 Free shipping. 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Once you have entered all the books, just print out their invoice and POSTAGE PAID address label and mail them in! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 13:45:06 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Jonatha and the evil "N" (some Joni) Kakki wrote: > I was struck last night at hearing so many gorgeous, > Joni-fied tunings played in the old-fashioned, > acoustic way. This will probably sound horrible but > anyone who misses hearing Joni's acoustic guitar can > get quite a nice fix listening to Jonatha play at a > live show. It doesn't sound horrible, and you're right, Kakki, about getting that fix from Jonatha in concert. > But geez, it takes a lot of hard work - even with > the assistant working non-stop to keep retuning the > four guitars, Jonatha also had to do some "fine > tuning" throughout the night. Just like Joni in the > old days, these breaks gave her the chance great > stage banter. Since Jonatha was alone at the DC area show, she had to do all the retuning by herself; fortunately for her, she had only two guitars on stage. She did a fine job of keeping the audience amused while she tuned; I think that's an art in itself! > Joni pretty much had to go to the VG-8 because of her > physical limitations brought on by her post polio > syndrome. She had to do what she had to do. Although I don't care for the "tinniness" of TTT, I won't complain about Joni using the VG-8, especially if it allows her to tour. We're all blessed that she still cares enough to want to do it. > > I take it "Bleeker Street" is a song from the new, > > as-yet-unreleased, album? > > No, it's a song she covered on an album that came > out a couple years ago that was a tribute by a > number of artists to the Bleeker Street musicians of > Greenwich Village from the old days. Thanks for clarifying! I'll keep an eye (and an ear) out for it! Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:03:10 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: re: men have no soul only egos; LJC Hi John, I'd really rather not get into the hornet's nest of pointing to instances of progressive rock which stike me as relatively empty. I already have enough argument on my hands. On the other hand, if you can direct me to instance of progressive rock which are complicated and original and COMBINE these virtues with being lyrical, melodic, well-vocalized, sincere, from the heart... please do so! What do you have in mind? & I am not putting this to you as some kind of challenge. I really do want to learn about excellent songs that I don't know about, and if you can point me in that direction, I will be most grateful. I do want to "connect" to this complicated AND lyrical music that you promise. And I would be much more interested in this music if it were also sung, with sincere (not just clever, obscure) lyrics, and not, say, a Henry Cow instrumental. If you please, Bruce PS And don't get me wrong, John. I respect Henry Cow. OK? And Henry Cowell, too. But that's not what I'm after here. John Stilwell wrote: >*********By contrast, the antithesis of what I'm looking for is so-called >"progessive" rock (a male bastion?) which is deliberately complicated and >original, but is also (to me) often empty, since it does not connect with >sincere expression. > >I think the two keys to this statement is the (to me) >and the word connect. You may not connect with it. > >I'd like to know which progressive rock you are alluding to. I really >connect with "Deliberately complicated music that does not connect with >sincere expression". You're being paradoxical, right? Given: There is no more sincere expression IMO than an >artist's mastery of an instrument or singing or lyrical style! But isn't there also the matter of what the singer is singing about, no? Doesn't that mean anything to you? Complicated >music is usually complicated because one has reached the absolute pinnacle >of his or her playing ability and is now pushing the limits of Expression! I don't agree. Tho I wish it were so. B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:04:08 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Professions & Intellectual Property Profession-Singer/Songwriter (as an indie artist this includes being a record company too!). Prior to this I worked as grantwriter. I like songwriting much better! I have also been many other things, including a teacher. The most difficult, yet most rewarding job so far has been that of a parent! (definately under paid for this one...) Intellectual Property- I have learned a lot from all of the discussions re: napster. Although it is a very complex issue, I would be horrified if the intellectual property rights of individuals were not protected to the hilt. They have to be or we are all in trouble. Isn't it already shameful enought that music education is not considered equally as important as science or math or english or history, etc. in our schools. I am probably preaching to the choir here... The following may seem simple & obvious, but to me it comes down to being this simple. As a songwriter, I create for the pure joy & expression & deep satisfaction of doing so. But if I want to share my music with the rest of the world, outside of performing, I must record, manufacture, promote,& distribute, all of which takes lots & lots of MONEY. If I don't get compensated for this expense, I will still create, but only my dog is gonna get to hear it... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 17:47:48 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: who is "w.o.h.a.m." about? who is "woman of heart and mind" written about?Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 13:31:27 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Walecki Tickets Posted on the Lee Shore List for those who may still be looking for a ticket to the Walecki benefit Best, Paz Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:17:28 EDT From: Shiverblu@aol.com Subject: August 8th Walecki Benefit Tickets I have a pair of tickets available for the show on August 8. They are in Section B, **Row 1**, Seats 40-42 (next to each other). (These are in the front row of the regular-sale seats, not the Gold or Silver sections in the Pit). I'll sell them for what I paid for them through the ticket distribution system. Just give me a holler offlist. Here's the seating chart: http://www.ticketmaster.com/venue/la1/54/seat1.html btw.. i just looked at the venue rules and it says that no smoking or alcohol in the venue, but it doesn't say anything about cameras, recording devices, yadda. Does anyone know the skinny on whether cameras and recordings are cool? Paula ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 19:00:39 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: who is "w.o.h.a.m." about? Hi, I'm not sure, probably could be anyone, but if I had to take a guess, I'd say James Taylor, cause two other songs on that album (Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire and For The Roses) are about him... -Kenny pondering the impact that these lyrics always had on me: "You criticise and you flatter, you imitate the best, and the rest, you memorize, you know the times you impress me most are the times when you don't try, when you don't even try." Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > who is "woman of heart and mind" written about?Does anyone know? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 19:09:48 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Re: A Sunny Sunday Hey Blair, I think this little snippet of Joni's bio from allmusic.com sums it up nicely: "Fiercely independent, her work steadfastly resisted the whims of both mainstream audiences and the male-dominated recording industry -- while Mitchell's records never sold in the same numbers enjoyed by contemporaries like Carole King, Janis Joplin or Aretha Franklin, none experimented so recklessly with their artistic identities or so bravely explored territory outside of the accepted confines of pop music, resulting in a creative legacy which paved the way for performers ranging from Patti Smith and Chrissie Hynde to Madonna and Courtney Love." -Kenny Blair Fraipont wrote: > Yes, Mr. Bruce > It is hard to compare Many artists (male and Female) to some such as > Joni and Kate. I mean Aretha Franklin can sing but, she never > conceptualized like Joni Or Kate. "The hounds of Love" is a very deep and > somewhat disturbing/beautiful ablum that not-a-many human being could > conjure up. > > And when you think of it, it is hard to think of a male conterpart to > the "Joni/Kate" ideal.. I mean... It sure isnt Emerson Lake and Palmer. > And that was a fascinating story about Zappa, cassy.. I have read > alot and I havent come across any story of that Penis incident > happening..but I belive it!! I wish i was there. I guess it is like seeing > Van Morrison in Concert.. you know?? you have this 50/50 chance of getting a > good show.. HE could storm off stage or spatter drunk comments to the > audience..or it could be the most emotional music coming out of a white soul > man one person has ever heard.. see ya > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 20:11:09 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/2/00 5:18:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, merrillb@crisny.org writes: << if you can direct me to instance of progressive rock which are complicated and original and COMBINE these virtues with being lyrical, melodic, well-vocalized, sincere, from the heart... please do so! >> well, i personally don't understand this thread, but if i were to look at your question as a stand alone of the thread, i'd say anything by jon anderson and yes or anything by ian anderson and jethro tull wold meet all your specified criteria. but perhaps you know that already. pat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 18:21:36 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC > well, i personally don't understand this thread, but if i were to look at > your question as a stand alone of the thread, i'd say anything by jon > anderson and yes or anything by ian anderson and jethro tull wold meet all > your specified criteria. but perhaps you know that already. pat Thick As A Brick keeps popping into my head. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 21:59:17 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: men have no soul only egos; LJC In a message dated 8/2/00 8:18:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes: << << if you can direct me to instance of progressive rock which are complicated and original and COMBINE these virtues with being lyrical, melodic, well-vocalized, sincere, from the heart... please do so! >> well, i personally don't understand this thread, but if i were to look at your question as a stand alone of the thread, i'd say anything by jon anderson and yes or anything by ian anderson and jethro tull wold meet all your specified criteria. but perhaps you know that already. pat >> Furthermore, if you are suggesting that bands like Genesis as well as the aforementioned Yes and Tull, which all created distinctive sounds, were emotionally and intellectualy vapid, I would disagree. Certainly, the Beatles were a band that, even moreso than Joni or any other musician, combined new sounds with intellectually bright and emotion-laden lyrics. Too bad, but I don't think Joni would have ever given up enough creative control to let someone like George Martin produce an album of hers, though she's certainly done quite well without him. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 02:35:40 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Joni painting for sale "Nighttime at the Nucleus" really captures the feel of the place (Nucleus Nuance). I'd only been there once but the canvas does it justice: crowded, dark and smoky with banquettes of tufted burgundy colored vinyl and ebony wood trim like the colors in the painting. I remember thinking that the music ruled the whole place. There wasn't a corner where you couldn't hear the band. Looking around, I thought, "This is L.A.?" Alas, I was jet lagged and called it an early evening, leaving um, 'round about midnight. Too bad it's gone now. Nothing lasts for long. CC "In daydreams of Birdland, I see my soul on fire burning up the bandstand." - -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 23:01:56 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Shiny Toys!and The Sims Reuben and Marilyn - Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the page. I'm curious how many people on the JMDL play "The Sims". I'm in the process of making some of Joni's Art Work usable as paintings in the game but before I post it on my page I'd like to know if anyone is interested in it. Reuben Bell wrote: > And I have been playing Joni Mah-Jong for two days straight. Lots of fun! > > > I am excited to say that I downloaded the Joni screensavers and have been > enjoying my private Joni art show on my computer screen. Thanks Ken this > is delightful! > > Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:39:40 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Aretha Speaking of Aretha, did anyone catch the 100 greatest TV moments where she was singing opera? WOW- it made me weep. ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Jan 1904 09:56:03 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Napster me wrote: > Michael, how is this any different from when several people >had TTT weeks before the official CD came out? As I recall >you had a copy and made it available to certain list >members. And who knows who they made copies for. Kakki wrote: Well, I don't mean to answer for Michael, either, and would like to see his private response posted, but here's how I remember it - Michael received several *official* promo copies of the TTT album through his work in the music business. He generously shared them with a number of listmembers. The promos are given away by the record company with the expectation of being given away to others to promote the album. Freebies authorized by the record company and the copyright owner. And I also would bet a whole lot of money that every person who received these promos went out and bought the album when it was released. As I recall, in fact, several of us bought multiple copies. Mark, you are sick of this thread - so are a lot of people. I am sick of people comparing apples to oranges on this issue. Kakki As usual right on target. And Mark I did not take offense at your post although I was a little surprised, but so be it. If I would make a copy of any pre-release stuff for someone, it would be for someone I know shares my beliefs that artists (not necessarily record companies or the world owes a living to Harry Fox) should be compensated for their work. If someone wants to heear something before its released it usually means they are a big fan and would buy it as soon as it comes out. We could go on with this thread forever. It will be interesting to see the changes in the industry over the next few years. Michael (resisting the urge to go seek out a song called Bleeker Street by Jonatha Brooke) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 02:12:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster In a message dated 8/3/00 1:43:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time, michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net writes: << Michael (resisting the urge to go seek out a song called Bleeker Street by Jonatha Brooke) >> Is that a cover of the Jerry Rafferty song? Paul I ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #318 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?