From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #317 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, August 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 317 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Hostage smiles on presidents [Dflahm@aol.com] Men have no soul only egos. [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Hostage Smiles, Freedom Scribbled [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Miles of Aisles Questions ["Reuben Bell" ] Napster vs JMTTrees [Julian51469@aol.com] male songwriters [Erin Stoy ] more... [Erin Stoy ] Re: male songwriters [Don Rowe ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [pat holden ] RE: Men have no soul only egos. ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Men have no soul only egos. [Les Irvin ] re: Innocence Mission ["c Karma" ] RE: male songwriters ["Eric Wilcox" ] RE: Men have no soul only egos. ["Eric Wilcox" ] response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti ["c Karma" ] Re: Men have no soul only egos. ["cassy" ] Re: Miles of Aisles Questions [jp ] RE: Men have no soul only egos. ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Shiny Toys! ["M & C Urbanski" ] Re: Shiny Toys! ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Lost Laura Nyro website [Gary Zack ] Re: male songwriters [Erin Stoy ] Re: response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: napster cont'd [Erin Stoy ] Re: Sharing [RandyRemote ] Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC [RandyRemote ] Joni painting for sale [Scott Price ] Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Napster [Michael Paz ] Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC ["Brenda J. Walker" ] women in the arts & P Poland ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Napster [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Men with Soul?!! Hell Yea ["Blair Fraipont" ] Re: Napster [Michael Paz ] Re: Napster ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:48:52 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Hostage smiles on presidents "subway riders" in general, I'm not sure. I think she was referring to the graffiti which inundated and covered the subway trains & stations at the time, at least in NYC. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:06:28 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Men have no soul only egos. GSVanMetre@bemis.com writes: << A corollary might well be that mostly women sing from the soul and men from the ego. >> I have watched and read this thread and it has been stunning in its seriousness.This is a joke. Are y'all kidding or what. Who on earth can make a judgement like this. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, all had no soul ? They all sang for ego ? Is this what is being suggested? This thread would be called sexist if the subject was reversed. I cant stop laughing. marcel deste ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 08:25:14 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Hostage Smiles, Freedom Scribbled A particular moment for "hostage smiles?" Sure--Nixon, especially during Watergate. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 09:21:18 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Questions That's interesting... I never realized that there was a lot of banter missing on the USCD of MOA. I always assumed that there had been none to begin with. Its been a long time since I listened to the whole thing, but I think its limited to the Van Gogh speech, and the "the more out of tune voices the better?" bit before "The Circle Game." Now...I'll have to hear the rest. BTW, my disc (purchased ca. 1990) has the introduction of Joni at the very beginning. Reuben np: KD Lang "Summerfling" Reuben Bell Events and Public Relations Coordinator Glencairn Museum Bryn Athyn, PA www.glencairnmuseum.org >>> "Jamie Zubairi" 07/31/00 04:46PM >>> When I first heard the new versions ( and you can tell that there is more music to it because the new versions have the track times and the whole thing is longer) I was struck by the LA Express 'This time it's our pleasure to introduce: MISS JONI MITCHELL!!!!!. On my old CD it just starts with YTMOIAR. If you were thinking about buying, please buy with no doubts as to editing out of her banter, it's all there like my original records. Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 09:30:09 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Napster vs JMTTrees Hello Everyone, Thsi is just my opinion but here goes anyway... I have been following some of this here Napster and "sharing" software debates and nobody seems to have brought up the point of view that Napster makes people into stupid collectors...let me explain. I used to work in a wonderful, well stocked, well educated, independant record store. From my experience there I felt that the people who came in really cared a great deal about music, wanted to hunt down the more obscure tangents of thier favorite artists and really learn about the history, environments and supporting artists that made the music that was dear to thier heart. When I found the JMDL (amongst other lists and sights) I was able to delve in further to the worlds that I loved and was/am able to share more of these obscure and eclectic insights. My personal experience with Napster is that half of the downloads are interupted, incomplete, titled wrong and worst of all...I have most of the stuff already because they are on officially released and still in print recordings. The music retail business is now losing a large portion of sales to college students and others because folks are getting "free" music..."Why go down to the store and buy a CD when I can get it all for free on line." This poor group of folks don't have a clue what they're missing out on. The beauty of trading with the Tape Trees is that I know that I am getting something that is not in print (and probably never will be), in a complete form and in a superior sound version. Yes copywrite infringement sucks but for me what is the more sinister element here is that a whole generation (several generations actuall...all at once) are being duped into a false sense of history, beauty, and awareness of the full breadth and width of musical experience. Napster retards yer musical heart. 'Nuff said. Julian ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 06:57:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: male songwriters To Bruce (and everybody!), Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, along with being a project of great ambition and significance. Don't you agree? Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:17:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: more... RoseMJoy quoted Thomas Jefferson: "That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." This quote really has nothing to do with Napster. Jefferson's statement that ideas are free to be spread is still with us today in the form of copyright laws. In fact, the point RoseMJoy was making about free ideas already exists in our current system. Indeed, *Copyright does not occur until an idea is fixed on a permanent medium.* So ideas are not subject to copyright, but as soon as they are part of something physical, like a piece of paper or a tape/CD, they ARE subject to copyright. Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 07:27:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: male songwriters - --- Erin Stoy wrote: > To Bruce (and everybody!), > Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive > lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, > along > with being a project of great ambition and > significance. Don't you agree? > Erin > Now I'm confused ... I thought 'Graceland' was morally bankrupt, bourgeois musical imperialism. ;-D Don Rowe (Who knows damned well Mr. Simon is neither morally bankrupt, bourgeois nor an imperialist.) ===== "Closer Now" is now available at http://www.mp3.com/donrowe __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:03:43 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing from his heart and soul? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:16:57 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> Relayer adds: <> And how about James Brown -- soul and ego! --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 11:25:20 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com > writes: > > << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, > Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing > from his heart and soul? what a statement...men have no soul. cant get my head around that one at all. especially because of the soulful men i know . mags. thinking bout a video i recently watched about stan rogers...now if that isnt soul and emotion...i dont know what is. np: sleeping in hollow trees, yep playing zoebliss all over again. :) - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:09:27 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. AL GREEN !!! Heart & Soul Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of > Murphycopy@aol.com > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:17 AM > To: Relayer211@aol.com; MDESTE1@aol.com; joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. > > > In a message dated 8/1/00 8:19:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > MDESTE1@aol.com > writes: > > << s. Lucianno Pavrotti, Nat King Cole, Little Richard, > Elvis, Steve Winwood, >> > > Relayer adds: > > < doesn't sing > from his heart and soul?>> > > And how about James Brown -- soul and ego! > > --Bob > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:45:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. In a message dated 8/1/00 8:13:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << < A corollary might well be that mostly women sing from the soul and men from the ego. >> >> The refutation of this statement lies in the careers of Otis Redding and Celine Dion. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 10:05:23 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing >from his heart and soul? Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one there folks...) Les NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:13:50 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: re: Innocence Mission Yep, Larry was the producer of their 1989 record. I met Joni and Larry at an early 1990 show that Innocence Mission did at the Roxy in LA. Their encore that night was "Both Sides Now" which they dedicated to Joni. After the show, I also told Joni that I thought Innocence Mission had used some sonic textures similar to CMIARS. Uncharacteristically not wanting to take credit for influence, her response was, "Naw, that was all their s**t, except for Both Sides Now." She obviously liked the Perises and their songs very much, and was very supportive of the work they and Larry did together. CC "The virtue of your style inscribed on your contempt for mine." -- JM ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:24:30 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: male songwriters I'm surprised I hadn't thought of that work. GRaceland is indeed a beautiful and wonerfully written piece. Too bad he's never eclipsed it since, IMHO. :) eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Erin Stoy Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:57 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: male songwriters To Bruce (and everybody!), Paul Simon's Graceland is beautiful and expressive lyrically and musically, from beginning to end, along with being a project of great ambition and significance. Don't you agree? Erin __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 11:30:10 -0500 From: "Eric Wilcox" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. What about James Taylor? Maybe he's been mentioned already-- but after seeing him live a few times-- you realize not only what a great performer he is-- but what a genuine person he is. eric - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Les Irvin Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:05 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he doesn't sing >from his heart and soul? Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one there folks...) Les NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:29:48 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Shadows and Light For me, this song is about the juxtaposition of images and the contrasts which those images elicit if we think about them, "Shadows and Light." Joni is describing images we all have seen during our lives and using them as examples of this contrast of dark and light, good and evil, ingenuousness and corruption, the age-old incongruities. Everywhere we look there are these little ironies like "Freedom scribbled in the subway," How many of those travelling the subways daily are free? Heading to jobs they hate (most of them) in order to provide for lives they're trapped in; the "hostage smiles on Presidents," hostages smiling, glad to be released and home, bright in their enthusiasm for a return to their lives and families, smiling at the politician whose government's policies likely caused their hostage situation and who can't wait for the photo opportunity presented by the hostage release, this polarity is pretty self-explanatory. Cassy N.P. Joe Jackson "Night and Day" CD - track "Real Men" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:44:42 GMT From: "c Karma" Subject: response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti Being NYC born and bred, and having attended a specialized NYC high school which required taking mass transportation to the Bronx through Manhattan EVERY DAY for 4 years, I witnessed the IND/BMT/IRT art in its FULL GLORY. Except for the full car masterpieces which also made the interior of the train look like a church as the sunlight permeated the colors like stained glass, I don't much miss the scrawls. Jogging other memories of the time, does anyone remember the hair picks that had the integral folding handle in fashionable black power colors? They fit in the back pocket of Levis perfectly! Or, huk-a-poo shirts worn with glitter belts and jeans, girls? "Marshmallow" oxfords, "Li'l Abner" workboots? DeeCee painters' pants (in white or natural), "French" patchwork denim? Cotton Indian gauze with mirror applique? Flat leather sandals with toe loops (were they called "water buffalos")? Actually, one graffito has stuck with me long after it faded off the wall in Sunnyside, Queens. The writer didn't credit to another, so I will assume it's original. Please feel free to enlighten me if it's famous. It read, "Love is open arms. If you close your arms to love You will find you are left Holding only yourself." CC "We came up from the subway on the music midnight makes." -- JM NP: Miles Davis, FINAL (take 3) from Ascenseur pour L'echafaud (Lift to the scaffold) soundtrack ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 12:38:31 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: P Henry/Ferron question Hi P Henry, As I suggested in an earlier post, Ferron was pigeon-holed immediately because she was way out of the closet from the inception of her career. There may be some truth to the suggestion that she was kidnapped by the "women's music"market. There is NOTHING exclusive in her lyrics. Like everyone else, she is lots of things. Formost a poet, a singer & a musician ; an authentic artist of the highest order and a brilliant person. IMHO, the gay label has been a profound impediment to her career. The fact that MP3 has to call her "lesbian, gay" folk agitates me to no end. Peg ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 13:10:20 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. From the varied responses I've seen on this thread I can only surmise that the question then becomes "What *is* soul?" The answers will be as individual as the artists we perceive to *have* soul. Joni has *it*, soul, many other artists also have *it*, I don't think it's an issue of gender, it's a completely different approach to their art. While the artist would like to generate enough capital to live the life they're accustomed to, it's not the primary guiding factor for their creativity, most of those with the elusive "soul" give us insight into their very essence whether it's a painting, music, writing, sculpture or textile arts! Anima rises without being bidden and is recognized regardless of whether one has a penis or a vagina. Cassy NP Brian Ferry "Bęte Noir - Limbo" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:31:52 +0300 From: jp Subject: Re: Miles of Aisles Questions > > WEll, just picked up MOA and I have a few questions. > > > > > Further-- can anyone tell me how much was lost when this > 2LP set was > > transferred to CD? I hear that most of the middle parts were > cut out-- > IE, > > Joni talking and such. There's a few spots on this disc > where the editing > > is SLOPPY-- so I just wonder. > > Hi Eric > > Well, I would buy the HDCD version of the CD as previously I > have owned the > first CD release and that cut a lot of the talking and the > audience (More > class than Richard Nixon, Gomer Pyle etc etc). The HDCD also > comes in 2 > versions: American and Canadian. I can't remember which is > which but one has > the original Joni writing 'Joni Mitchell, Miles Of Aisles' like > the original > record sleeve. The other version was how (I guess( Joni wanted > it, with > proper typeface replacing her rendering and the painting and > the photograph > are merged seamlessly. I have the first version and I think > it's American > but I can't be sure. > > When I first heard the new versions ( and you can tell that > there is more > music to it because the new versions have the track times and > the whole > thing is longer) I was struck by the LA Express 'This time it's > our pleasure > to introduce: MISS JONI MITCHELL!!!!!. On my old CD it just > starts with > YTMOIAR. I got a German-made HDCD just recently and it looks like it's one of those fakes that aren't HDCD at all. There's a sticker latched on the front that says it's HDCD "mastered from the original master tapes", but otherwise it's just like the regular CD, no HDCD logos anywhere. Artwork is the kind of leaflet that came with the earlier CD, not 'repackaged by Robbie Cavolina' at all. The CD is about 74 minutes long - 3 & a half minutes shorter than the original material. Everything seems fine at first, there is the introduction at the beginning, but towards the end, all the talking between tracks is cut off. The songs barely echo out before the next one already begins. Those butchers! - --jussi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:11:54 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Men have no soul only egos. How could we forget Steve Forbert? He has such surrender & longing in his voice. Don't you love him? Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Les > Irvin > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:05 PM > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Men have no soul only egos. > > > At 09:03 AM 8/1/2000, Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > and what about Bruce Springsteen?Can anyone honestly say he > doesn't sing > >from his heart and soul? > > Or how about David Wilcox, Michael Johnson, Chris Isaac, Van Morrison, > Loudon Wainwright III, and David Lee Roth? (Just kidding on the last one > there folks...) > Les > > NP: Kentucky Colonels "Billy in the Lowground" > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 15:45:43 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Shiny Toys! > Joniphiles - > I'm pleased to announce that Ken Slarty has accepted my invitation to house > his collection of Joni icons, cursors, screen savers, and midi files on the > JMDL site. He has dubiously dubbed it the "Shiny Toys" section. I am excited to say that I downloaded the Joni screensavers and have been enjoying my private Joni art show on my computer screen. Thanks Ken this is delightful! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:00:31 -0400 From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Shiny Toys! And I have been playing Joni Mah-Jong for two days straight. Lots of fun! Reuben >>> "M & C Urbanski" 08/01/00 03:45PM >>> > Joniphiles - > I'm pleased to announce that Ken Slarty has accepted my invitation to house > his collection of Joni icons, cursors, screen savers, and midi files on the > JMDL site. He has dubiously dubbed it the "Shiny Toys" section. I am excited to say that I downloaded the Joni screensavers and have been enjoying my private Joni art show on my computer screen. Thanks Ken this is delightful! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 16:47:54 -0400 From: Gary Zack Subject: Re: Lost Laura Nyro website Hey Matt and all, Resident Laura Nyro fanatic here. Yes, the website www.lauranyro.net certainly did exist, and I had it bookmarked as a favorite on my homepage. It was much better and more comprehensive than the "Official Website" and I don't know what's happened to it. I certainly miss it, and checked it on a weekly basis. Keep me posted as to any findings. My Joni content: Joni is #1, Laura is #2!! SISOTOWBELL = Somehow in spite of trouble, ours will be everlasting love - Joni Mitchell Warm regards, Gary Hejira924@aol.com wrote: > > << does anyone know what has happened to www.lauranyro.net > it was a fabulous web page but it's disappeared!!! > matt >> > << The authorized Laura Nyro home page > > is at www.lauranyro.COM, where it has always been. I don't thi k it ever was > a .net address.>> > Nice try, but my inquiry as well as the top inquiry, were about LauraNyro.net, > which was started about 5 years ago by someone at U.of Conn. I think (it had > a much longer address at first that ended in Conn.edu). I forgot his name, > but he had a much more extensive website than www.lauranyro.com. > It was there on his website that I first learned of Joni's website (by Wally) > thru > a link. After Laura's death, I and many others posted our memories of her, > which became a part of the website. I think what happened is that > lauranyro.com > was the site originally planned by Laura before her death and her heirs must > have insisted that lauranyro.net be shut down, but this is only a guess. > Come on now, all you JMDL'rs who posted that Laura Nyro is your number 2, > doesn't anybody else remember the site we're talking about? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:07:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: Re: male songwriters Yeah, actually in my undergrad days I wrote a paper for a class called Traditional and Popular African Musics about the controversy over the Graceland album. It was amazing the things people said about Paul... > Now I'm confused ... I thought 'Graceland' was > morally > bankrupt, bourgeois musical imperialism. ;-D > > Don Rowe > > (Who knows damned well Mr. Simon is neither morally > bankrupt, bourgeois nor an imperialist.) > > ===== > "Closer Now" is now available at > http://www.mp3.com/donrowe > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. > http://invites.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:08:54 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: response to Nickel Chief, re: Subway graffiti In a message dated 8/1/00 12:49:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ckarma@hotmail.com writes: << Jogging other memories of the time, does anyone remember the hair picks that had the integral folding handle in fashionable black power colors? They fit in the back pocket of Levis perfectly! Or, huk-a-poo shirts worn with glitter belts and jeans, girls? "Marshmallow" oxfords, "Li'l Abner" workboots? DeeCee painters' pants (in white or natural), "French" patchwork denim? Cotton Indian gauze with mirror applique? Flat leather sandals with toe loops (were they called "water buffalos")? >> You must have taken the subway to fashion school. Only in NY. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:15:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Subject: Re: napster cont'd "I will defend my right to use it to get digital copies of the 18 boxes of LP's sitting in my garage (no room in the house for more music)." Brenda If this is what you are using Napster for, then you are absolutely justified in your use. That is indeed fair use. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:18:47 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Sharing RoseMJoy@aol.com wrote: > Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property. > —Thomas Jefferson Maybe not in nature, but in the human world we have patents and copyright law to protect the sweat and innovation of our writers, artists and inventors. It also provides a monetary incentive, without which, no doubt, alot of technology would not have developed. RR ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:18:59 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > So if I were the major labels I > would make all recordings available on line in one big all you can eat for > $19.99 a month buffet....to download or to stream. And I would support the > development of technology so I can stop selling those unprotected CD's as > quickly as possible. I agree, and both of these solutions are being pursued by the industry, though slowly. RR ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:27:54 +0100 From: Howard Subject: Re: For The Roses Wow, what a little gem! Thanks for posting that Jim. I've got a feeling we could discuss the ins and outs of that one for years to come. Is Joni talking about herself? Yes and no. The subject of the song itself is obviously about someone else - doesn't have to be a particular person, but the James Taylor connection seems strong. And yet Joni is singing about the ups and downs of someone else's career (who happens to be flavour of the month) with experience of or as a reflection of her own ups and downs. After Blue she quit the touring scene, almost disappeared from view, and (though i wasn't there at the time!) I guess she was no longer "flavour of the month". Now she watches someone else's rise and warns them that the fall is probably not too far away. In other words, the horse is running fast now and winning the race, but they'll be getting the gun soon ... I was reading some excellent Zappa interviews recently and he had a lot to say on this kind of thing. He was referring to guitarists specifically, but I think it holds true for musicians in general. He was saying that magazine editors and producers are basically interested in what's HOT. If it ain't HOT it ain't good. So, Eddie Van Halen comes along with his fancy tapping thing, everyone faints and gasps, and Eddie's HOT. After a year or so, every kid on every street corner is doing the fancy guitar tapping thing, and sure enough, some kids can do it faster than Eddie, so Eddie's no longer HOT. It's the new thing, the flavour of the month. Nothing to do with real ability or musicianship or quality, just surface gloss and hype. A good hair cut and jazzy clothes and a good video (with plenty of bare flesh) can go a long way to making you HOT. But if you're actualy interested in *music*, ahh, that's something else ... Howard W. Jim L'Hommedieu wrote: >Joni: >"This is another new song. > It's uh.. > It's uh.. called "For The Roses". > That comes from the expression, 'to run for the roses', > 'an 'ya know what that's about. > That's when 'ya take a horse and 'ya know, like > he's chargin' into the finish line and they > throw a wreath of flowers around his neck > and uh... > Then one day, > they take him out and > shoot him. > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 15:37:10 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Joni painting for sale Was $40K, now reduced to $29K.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 19:39:51 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC In a message dated 8/1/00 5:31:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, guitarzan@saber.net writes: << "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > So if I were the major labels I > would make all recordings available on line in one big all you can eat for > $19.99 a month buffet....to download or to stream. And I would support the > development of technology so I can stop selling those unprotected CD's as > quickly as possible. >> That's fine for the record companies, I suppose, but how do you apportion those royalties out to the performers and songwriters, since your cafeteria plan does not account for them. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 10:46:04 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Napster Brenda wrote: > > Finally, if you have gotten or shared a single bit of music, video or interview > from the tape trees or any other source, (and I don't know if you have or not) > then you really can't cast stones at Napster or it's users. > then Colin (in feathers) wrote: Much to my shame Brenda you have just written what i was too chicken to! I have been rather astounded at some of the self deceit and rationalisation being written on this subject. OK, Kids play nice! This issue is indeed a sensitive one. While I am as guilty as hell when it comes to live recordings of Joni and other artists, I have always wondered what Joni would think of it. My gut tells me that she could give a crap about the "live" stuff or "TV" stuff. She probably could even care less about her record company (s), but the issue with Napster involves bands that are breaking out as well as current million sellers. The really scary thing is stuff that hasn't even been released to market yet. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!!!!! It might come from a studio employee who dupes a copy of the final mix and posts it for the world to copy, without the artists permission. I would never dream of downloading stuff like that. Live shows of Joni and many other artists though I find irrisitable. There are many artists like the Dead, Dave Matthews Band, The Radiators, that allow taping and even provide "Press Feeds" for the tapers to insure a better quality sound. I, personally am a "music slut" (direct decendant from Bob Muller, King of the Music Sluts) I collect music like a madman. I already have every Dave Matthews official release, but I find myself downloading his latest shows for variety. And of course I will purchase everything else he evers puts out. Someone I was speakinf to here at the hospital asked me about Napster when they found out I was in the biz and told me that they will NEVER BUY A CD EVER AGAIN! This is dreadful news for ALL artists. Just ask Fred Simon, Kate Bennett, Victor Johnson, or any of the other songwriters that make their daily bread from selling music either on recorded form or live. Believe it or not there are tons of people out there that can justify themselves ripping off musicians, software developers, screen artists, or whatever just to get FREE stuff. I like free stuff as much as the next person, but I believe there has to be limitations in this whole issue. I am sure we have not heard the end of it either. Peace and music, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:38:18 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC It absolutely does. You can pay royalties to publishers, writers and performers per play or per download or percentages thereof. Incidently, if the current record buying population bought in at that price, the industry (and I do mean the music industry not record companies)as a whole would gross more $$$ and see higher margins. Brenda IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 8/1/00 5:31:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > guitarzan@saber.net writes: > > << > "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > > > So if I were the major labels I > > would make all recordings available on line in one big all you can eat for > > $19.99 a month buffet....to download or to stream. And I would support the > > development of technology so I can stop selling those unprotected CD's as > > quickly as possible. > >> > That's fine for the record companies, I suppose, but how do you apportion > those royalties out to the performers and songwriters, since your cafeteria > plan does not account for them. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 21:29:31 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni painting for sale Scott let us know that: << Was $40K, now reduced to $29K.... >> OK everyone, my birthday is this month. I think everyone could chip in for this little trinket for me, dontcha think? Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 20:41:45 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Napster I'm really sick of this Napster stuff but I had to add my 2 cents to this. Michael, how is this any different from when several people had TTT weeks before the official CD came out? As I recall you had a copy and made it available to certain list members. And who knows who they made copies for. At 10:46 AM +0000 9/21/09, Michael Paz wrote: >The really scary thing is stuff that hasn't even been released to >market yet. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!!!!! It might come from a studio >employee who dupes a copy of the final mix and posts it for the >world to copy, without the artists permission. I would never dream >of downloading stuff like that. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 19:43:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: women in the arts & P Poland Bob, To answer your question, I agree with you about this, it bugs me too. You wrote "but it always strikes me as sexist when gender is used to define women in the arts. It just seems like the media's way of subtly creating a subclass (female) of people within a category. I wonder if it bugs Joni and other women in the arts as much as it bugs me. and Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: "Does anyone know what ever happened to Pamela Polland?" I saw her about a year ago at a Bonnie Raitt Concert- she came out & sang harmony on a song. I think she lives in LA or the S Cal area.... ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com www.cdbaby.com/katebennett www.amazon.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide "lyrically, it's a work of art overall" Indie-Music.com ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:20:02 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster << Michael, how is this any different from when several people had TTT weeks before the official CD came out? As I recall you had a copy and made it available to certain list members. And who knows who they made copies for. >> I should let Michael answer, but I'm willing to bet he BOUGHT a copy of TTT when it was available...in my mind anyway, that would be the difference. Bob NP: Dire Straits, "Solid Rock" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 22:32:03 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Napster downloading/JMDL moral dilemma SJC In a message dated 8/1/00 8:44:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, brenda@killinggoliath.com writes: << It absolutely does. You can pay royalties to publishers, writers and performers per play or per download or percentages thereof. >> How do you do that if you are not COLLECTING them that way, but in some sort of monthly subscription or cafeteria plan? It doesn't work. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 23:20:50 EDT From: "Blair Fraipont" Subject: Men with Soul?!! Hell Yea Hey, i think you are all forgetting one great male Songwriters... Frank Zappa!! UH HA!! I knew you would agree. I mean come on He was a great story teller in my opinon (Dont eat the Yellow Snow, Gregory Peccary, Goes Garage) and who had a grasp on reality. I mean, to me, it is to have an imagination, and Frank had that and was Definitely deeply connected to the music he was composing/releasing. And Who could forget Captain Beefheart---A fantastic singer.. or.. Roberta Flack.. Yea, the whole idea that ALL men are in it for only their egos is proposterous.. i meann.. come on i agree with the person..who made the Celine Dion/Otis Redding comparison... okay.. take care NP: Can--"Father Can't Yell" blair ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jan 1904 11:11:37 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Re: Napster Mark wrote: << Michael, how is this any different from when several people had TTT weeks before the official CD came out? As I recall you had a copy and made it available to certain list members. And who knows who they made copies for. >> then Bob wrote: "I should let Michael answer, but I'm willing to bet he BOUGHT a copy of TTT when it was available...in my mind anyway, that would be the difference." Mark- I didn't realize you had copied the list on your email. Please post my private response to you on the issue in question so I don't have to retype my response to you. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 23:30:07 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Napster Mark wrote: > Michael, how is this any different from when several people >had TTT weeks before the official CD came out? As I recall >you had a copy and made it available to certain list >members. And who knows who they made copies for. Well, I don't mean to answer for Michael, either, and would like to see his private response posted, but here's how I remember it - Michael received several *official* promo copies of the TTT album through his work in the music business. He generously shared them with a number of listmembers. The promos are given away by the record company with the expectation of being given away to others to promote the album. Freebies authorized by the record company and the copyright owner. And I also would bet a whole lot of money that every person who received these promos went out and bought the album when it was released. As I recall, in fact, several of us bought multiple copies. Mark, you are sick of this thread - so are a lot of people. I am sick of people comparing apples to oranges on this issue. Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #317 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?