From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #296 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, July 16 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 296 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Current Top 5(JC) ["Kakki" ] world view, east/west coast, etc ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Joni's World View [Bolvangar@aol.com] Re: Joni's World View [Richard Rice ] MIngus Big Band (SJC) ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Joni Sings the Blues ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Joni's World View [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: Joni's World View [Matthew Snyder ] Re: Both Sides Now & The JOHNSTONS [philipf@tinet.ie] [none] ["william" ] Book (w/Joni) at great price [David Gertler ] RE: Joni's World View [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Grace of My Heart [Merk54@aol.com] Re: Synchronicity, etc. ["P. Henry" ] Re: Joni's World View [catman ] better late than never [Kate ] Furry Lewis (was: Synchronicity, etc.) [Les Irvin ] Re: better late than never [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Joni's World View [susan+rick ] Re: Grace of My Heart [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni's World View [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: better late than never ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Grace of My Heart [susan+rick ] Fwd: Joni's World View [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Grace of My Heart SJC [PPeterson4@aol.com] Re: Fwd: Joni's World View [Mark Domyancich ] a walk on the moon [catman ] RE: Joni's World View ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Joni's World View (VLJC) [Bolvangar@aol.com] re: Yvette in English ["Ray & Cathy" ] Mendel page on JMDL site [Les Irvin ] Putting politics to rest [Hejira924@aol.com] Re: John Kelley [Jim and/or Jay ] Well I discovered her last month... [Angshuman Dasgupta Subject: Re: Current Top 5(JC) Lisa wrote: >5. Only Joy In Town (Botticelli Black Boy!!!) I > love "The Botticelli Black Boy with the fuschias in his hair is >breathing in women like oxygen on the Spanish stairs!") O.K. Lisa, this has finally provoked me a bit to give my top five or ten or more. I was crazy about the NRH album from the beginning but this particular song had to grow on me and has now emerged as one of my all time faves, too. I can't limit my Joni to top 5 or even top 10 - it's so difficult because when you grow up with her from the beginning like some of us have different songs mean so much at different phases. I'd had have to pick a top five or so from the early years and another top five from the later years - but most all her songs in total mean so much to me. Top 6 (cheating) from early years are Song to a Seagull, I Don't Know Where I Stand, Morning Morgantown, All I Want, Electricity, Judgement of the Moon and Stars Top 6 from later years are Help Me, Hissing of Summer Lawns, Off Night Backstreet, Paprika Plains, Love, Only Joy in Town Gee, reading some of these back I wonder if I'm from the Klein Russian on Prozac strain of the tribe. I took that reference to mean some kind of grandiose, dramatic, incurable romantic, by the way ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 02:35:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: world view, east/west coast, etc I agree with Jim, the four races, four directions and the qualities associated with them are from traditional native american belief, possibly hopi, though I am not entirely certain about that. So I think that is what Joni was referring to. Speaking of which, I guess I would pretty much be considered bicoastal because I grew up on the east coast but have been living for quite some time now on the west. And whoever described the coming out, country clubs, etc - that was a pretty accurate but it goes on here too, to a certain extent. And to weigh in on another subject, I am all for staying away from politics, I am so sick of it all I can't even say. Jim asked about CDs- there are a couple of folks on this list with CDs--Paul Castle, Steve Dulson, myself and others I am sure- speak up now! Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter Santa Barbara, CA www.katebennett.com "bringing the melancholy world of twilight to life almost like magic…the album grows more intriguing with repeated listening" All Music Guide http://allmusic.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 05:42:07 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's World View jlamadoo@one.net wrote: <<(Doesn't everyone _think_ in terms of race - I mean if you are able to _comprehend_ the concept of "race" then by definition you are guilty of "thinking in terms of race".)>> I don't believe so -- not if you *reject* the concept of race (particularly as constructed and practiced, historically and presently, in our society: racial superiority, privilege, racial essentialism and determinism, etc.), and I suppose one must be "able to comprehend the concept of 'race'" in order to fully struggle against it and reject it. (That doesn't mean being "color blind" either but....) - --David NP: _Waulking Songs from Barra_ (Scottish Tradition series vol. 3, on Greentrax) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 05:27:19 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Re: Joni's World View Hi Park Ranger Rick! Very exciting thread! I beg to differ with a previous poster. I hope we can run with this juicy bit of Joniism. I was beginning to be bored by the last few digests! It's a shame to bring up such an interesting Joni quote on a weekend when things tend to be slow on the list. Had you waited till monday we could have all sorts of petty wars going on around here. --I haven't called anyone a dirt bag in years. Forgive me, if I may add a quick comment here to a subject that deserves a lot of thought and investigation. In many ways I think Joni's simplistic comments are often drawn from very complex and varied points of reflection. The whole getting simplified to quick 'off the cuff' commentary for the press, when in fact they are subjects given a great deal of thought on her part. For instance, she has made many 'off the cuff' comments about medicine and alternative medicine. These comments, seemingly simplistic, often quite colorful, are in fact borne out of years of painful experience, meditation, and searches for alternative treatments. We just get the snippets. And they do leave one scratching one's head wondering, "Huh?" But I love that about her interviews as much as her colorful stories. There's always room for creative reflection with her. Remember, she used similar language in the Painting With Words video. East I see... West I know. (Something like that...) I think some of these comments are drawn from reflections about music, as much as anything. Music, Art and Philosophy. Favorite subjects of hers. The intellect she speaks of in the 'white' race could be seen as a simplistic reflection on classical (white) music tradition which is a very rational, orderly, intellectual form of beauty. So structured in fact, you could play classical music backwards and it still holds up. The 'emotionality' of the black race a reflection on the contributions of black music. The heart felt african rhythms informing the blues of the slaves informing the spirit of jazz informing the roll in rock right through to today's rap scene. And so forth. Sometimes, we are so lost in our own cultural biases, we can't see what it is that defines or binds us. Add to this a sense of 'political correctness' that we shouldn't dwell on difference, makes commentary like her's appear more volitile than it really is. As I side bar, I too was taken aback by Joni's comment about the acceptance of homosexuality as a sign of cultural decline. And for the longest time I disliked the song "Sex Kills" as I thought it was very shallow commentary about one of the most important travails in human history. Still, I don't see her comments here as anything odd at all. How else would you, without publishing a tome describe core cultural differences regarding music, art and philosophy? Anything put down to a sound bite would come off as trivial. Interesting topic, indeed. John Calimee. (Ok, Ok. so I can't spell and I've been up alll night looking at pictures from the Sk'toon squad... it's late and o, my gosh. The sun's up!! --G'night all. 5:30 am.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:10:13 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: MIngus Big Band (SJC) Hello all, I have just come back from a most wonderful gig. It was The Mingus Big Band at Ronnie Scott's in London. The MBB are gathered together by Sue Graham-Mingus (his widow) who still looks after his music and I must say that the line up was amazing. John Stubblefield on tenor sax was amazing! The set ended about 3 am and was the best I have ever heard. Mingus' spiralling melodies and flurrying horn sections all go hit you and pin you to the wall and don't let you go until they have left the stage. It was about 13 musicians all on horns or flute. WOW the power! and a drummer (who is a musician too, but he wasn't on a wind instrument sorry drummers, nuff respect) I HAVE HEARD GOODBYE PORKPIE HAT LIVE FROM THE BAND OF THE MAN THAT WROTE IT!!!!!! I WANTED TO GET UP AND SING!!!! (bad idea Zoob) They also had a vocalist who sounded more like a saxophone than a voice Jamal Hayes. Amazing And song titles like Oh Mama Don't Let Them Drop That Atomic Bomb On Me... I went to HMV earlier in the day looking for songs from Joni's Mingus album and The MBB have recorded Chair In The Sky on a live album. Must go hunting....I wonder if the rest are on it.... The one thing that ruined it slightly for me was the fact that Ronnie Scotts are slightly up their own behinds as an establishment. OK so they have been going for 41 years.... Still tired and woozy Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:41:44 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni Sings the Blues In 1988's Q Magazine Joni tells of the story where she was in Memphis (I think it was part of Rolling Thunder but I'm guessing) where she would dress up and call herself 'Mademoiselle Ink and rip off cops, pretending to be an ambassador of rock. It was a great game that the cops enjoyed. While in Memphis (ok details are a little hazy in my brain) but either a black cop or a black liquor store owner said, 'You Joni Mitchell?' and she thought, 'culturally this isn't possible, why should I be known to him?' but anyway he said that Furry Lewis doesn't live too far away from here hand on, I've got the magazine right here... Q: Your most controversial work in the second half of the 1970s came from your unusual approach to black music from the Jungle Line to Mingus. In between there was Furry Sings The Blues. How did that song come about? Joni: I had been on Rolling Thunder and for my own amusement on that tour I had taken to ripping off cops. I would use my wits and try to get a piece of cop paraphernalia off 'em - I got hats, jackets and tie clips and badges. One time I chased a cop and he wouldn't give me anything so I said,"What if I got my gang and we pin you up against a wall and you tell your superior you were outnumbered?" He was real deadpan. A smile came over just one corner of his mouth and he said,"Go get your gang." It was a really charming game. I would introduce myself as Mademoiselle Oink, the liaison officer between rock and roll and the cops. So when we got to Memphis on my own tour I hit on this cop and he agreed we would trade a badge for a record.Then he said we should go to Old Beale Street, which used to be the heart of blues music in the town. Well it was an amazing vision, like a Western ghost town three blocks long. Shards of wreckage all around, cranes with wrecking ball standing there. Two pawn shops were still functioning and there was this modern movie theatre next with a double bill of black machine gun movies - next to a statue of W C Handy, a trumpet player in the jazz era. We came down the street and, if I'm not embellishing, a tumbleweed drifted across in front of the car - it seems to me it did. Standing in front of one of the pawn shops was a guy in a purplish-blue shirt, bright blue blazer with brass buttons on it, bald, smokin' a stogie. He looks at me and says You Joni Mitchell? I think, culturally this is impossible, this guy should not know my name. However I had heard that Furry Lewis lived in Memphis so mentioned it to the pawnbroker. He says oh sure he's a friend of mine. meet me tonight and we'll go over and go and see him. Bring a bottle of Jack Daniel's and Pall Mall cigarettes. Furry was in his eighties or nineties and senile at this point. Lived in a shanty in the ghetto there. It was quite a nice visit until I said to him - "We have this in common - I play in open tunings too." Now I dunno, people must have ridiculed him about it or something, because he leaned upon the bed and said (in a hoarse voice) Ah kin play in Spanish tonin'. Real defensive. Somehow or other I insulted him. From then on it was downhill. He just said, I don't like, as I wrote in the song. (end of quote) In another i/v Joni says that Furry tried to sue her to which her reply was something along the lines of 'If everyone that hated me tried to sue me, I would be a pauper by now.' Much Joni Jamie Zoob > At 10:46 AM -0400 7/14/00, cassy wrote: > >For the life of me I cannot recall where I read that Joni was sued over the > >song "Furry Sings the Blues" that she and Neil had visited with Furry on a > >trip to Memphis and that while they were there, Furry had been playing his > >harmonica and that Joni and Neil had used those licks in the recorded > >release, ostensibly to pay him "homage." I have a recollection that Joni > >was sued for royalties. > > > >Does anyone else recall this? Do you know where it was originally reported? > > > >Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:05:20 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's World View In a message dated 7/15/00 5:48:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bolvangar@aol.com writes: << I suppose one must be "able to comprehend the concept of 'race'" in order to fully struggle against it and reject it. >> One can also comprehend the concept of the sun rising in the East in the morning and intellectually struggle against it and reject it, but that won't make it rise in the West. Races exist. That is a fact. Races also have certain characteristics, some of which are physical and factual and some of which are unfair, inaccurate stereotypes that have been projected onto certain races by other races trying to imply some inherent superiority. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:27:50 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: RE: Joni's World View >Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 02:22:11 -0300 >From: "Wally Kairuz" >Subject: RE: Joni's World View > >i don't know that joni is so open minded when it comes to certain issues. >when dog eat dog came out, she said in an interview that one of the signs >that contemporary culture was in decline was its relatively open acceptance >of homosexuality. But, was she saying that she disapproved of contemporary culture's downfall, or approved of it? Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:53:26 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Both Sides Now & The JOHNSTONS Ok no more silly trivia. Well maybe just a little - The Johnstons was the first version of BSN to be released as a single. And they did play a gig with Joni in the Festival Hall. Here's a nice note I got from Paul Brady : Dear Philip, The Johnstons first heard Both Sides Now on a Judy Collins album 'Wild Flowers' in late 1967. Joni Mitchell had already released the song on her album called 'Clouds' around the same period but it hadn't become a commercial success and was not widely known. The Johnstons recorded it and released it in US as a single in the summer of 68. It charted at no 65 in the US top 100 which prompted Judy Collins' record co to release her version as a single too. Eventually Judy's version prevailed and became the big hit. The Johnstons played on the same bill as Joni Mitchell at the Royal Festival Hall in London on 26th September 1968. Thanks for you interest, Paul Brady ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 22:27:57 +0700 From: "william" Subject: [none] Dear Friends of Spirit, Just got back from the jungle in Kalimantan and been reading all your postings over the last three weeks. Three hours later.......... So glad I missed the Not To Blame thang. I don't enjoy that side of the discussion. However I'll post my Top 5 thoughts later. Thanks to those of you who replied personally to my what-shall-I-play suggestions for press "play" up the lazy boat jungle river. Much appreciated and thanks. I decided against batteries in the end and instead toted my acoustic strum machine to entertain the orangutans. I'm the King of the Swingers. Having only my own six white vapour trails to cross the green (less than bleak) terrain (as it were) with no back up strings for retuning, I realised how few Joni songs I could play in standard tuning. Let me count them - ............... eight going on three. For those of you who do dabble in strummage, do you retune for every song you serenade yourself and loved ones to, or is there a standard tuning that is possible for the likes of say Don't Interrupt the Sorrow? I manage a nearly passable Coyote in C. For the Roses in A. Paprika Plains indeed. As for Top 5 albums. 1 - Hejira 2 - Court & Spark 3 - For The Roses 4 - Blue 5 - Hissing of Summer Lawns Blue a mere 4th position! As for Top 5 songs. 1 - Don Juan's Reckless Daughter 2 - Song For Sharon 3 - Down To You 4 - Judgement of the Moon and Stars 5 - Harry's House/Centerpiece As fellow JMDLers say, "or there abouts." Tomorrow? Just Like ThisTrain, Woodstock, The Only Joy in Town, Moon on the Window. That's what's special about Joni. Till soonest, on this lunar eclipse evening in the southern hemisphere. Tidings from Indonesia to friends of spirit. Willy the Shake. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:35:45 -0400 From: David Gertler Subject: Book (w/Joni) at great price A brief heads-up: I've just ordered a copy of _Before the Gold Rush_ by Nicholas Jennings, a book published in 1997 about the beginnings of the Canadian popular music scene. It has text and pictures covering Joni, Gordon Lightfoot, Neil Young, and many other artists. I haven't seen the book but have read some good reviews of it. This hardcover book listed for $22, but BookCloseOuts.com has it for $4.49(!). (The only reason I know of the book is that I recently saw a copy being auctioned on eBay, where it went for $10.50.) Looks like a good read at a cheap price (though I'd be glad to see any JMDLers post their opinions of it). Check it out by going to http://www.BookCloseOuts.com and searching on the title. - --Dave Gertler ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:12:22 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: RE: Joni's World View Is it possible Joni stole some speaker's speech from the last century and called it her own? I have never known Joni to do any 'offical' speeches. It's just a thought. It's hard to imagine she would forget it's 2000 this late in the year. Attendees: did she read this or was nervous? NP-Joni, Born T Take The Highway - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:21:11 EDT From: Merk54@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart I know this is pretty well documented, but I thought I might save some time and pass this info along. Joni originally wrote and recorded Man from Mars for the movie soundtrack of Grace of My Heart. For continuity purposes, the director decided to use the actresses version of the song in the movie. Joni got a little miffed about this, and consequently made them use the actresses version on the CD. Fortunately for us, a number of CD's with Joni's version were already burned, and they accidentally used these for the first release. The CD's were ordered to be returned, but thanks to the heads up of JM.com and the JMDL, fans were able to snarf up a bunch of them before they were returned. I personally got about 18 of them from Best Buy, which I then turned around and sold at cost to members of the list. I remember when I bought them, the cash register actually displayed "Do Not Sell" in lieu of a description, but fortunately, the cashier wasn't too with it, and sold them to me anyway. One of the Joni versions just sold on Ebay for $26, which is a pretty reasonable price (imo). Personally, I prefer this version to the TTT version. However, I was familiar with the GOMH version first, and loved it so much, I might be prejudiced against the TTT version (any other opinions on this one?) It's performed at the piano and has some beautiful harmonies on the chorus. I find it much more intimate and haunting sounding. It does have a 'FTR feel to it, but with her 'mature' voice. It makes me wonder why Joni has abandoned the piano - they serve each other so well. Anyway, you can tell it's the Joni version by the numbers on the side of the CD Case - they gave the reissued version a different number. So if you ever see a copy of GOMH with the numbers MCAD-11510, grab it - you won't be sorry. I believe the Bar code numbers are also different - on the Joni version the numbers are 08811-15102. The back liner notes will still say it's performed by Kristen Vigaro, but it's not. I thought I still had one or two extra copies lying around, but a quick run through didn't uncover any. If I find them, I will send them along to Ashara's Jonifest to give away as door prizes! Jack Now playing - Man from Mars (GOHM) - Beautiful! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:37:23 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: Synchronicity, etc. rose wondered: "I wonder who Old Furry really was?" here's some info on that: http://www.memphisguide.com/music2/blues/bluesartists/furry.html http://thebluehighway.com/furry.html pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 17:46:00 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's World View Maybe Joni is amongst those of us who do not believe the 21st century starts until 2001. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:01:03 -0600 From: Kate Subject: better late than never Hi All, I am finally back home near Edmonton, had a wonderful two weeks in Saskatchewan. Meeting the gang at the Bessborough was my first experience of meeting cyber-acquaintances and I wondered beforehand what I would think of everyone. It turned out that every person I met there in the lobby was warm, friendly, and delightful and I was happy to consider myself part of such a group of Joni appreciators -- some of whom are particularly good huggers! The first thing Penny did after introducing herself was give me an official Joni-website t-shirt for Emil, who calls it his Joni shirt and who put it on in the street as soon as my sister and her husband brought him to the Mendel to meet me later in the day. Ranger Rick gave this prairie girl a lesson in Saskatchewan geography. Thankyou. Now I can know what I'm talking about next time I'm trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about. :-) Indeed, it is the SOUTH Saskatchewan River that runs through Saskatoon, and the NORTH that runs through Edmonton. You were right, I was wrong. But I *still* get to claim prairie flower status for myself, just like our Joan - -- and you don't ! Ha Ha Ha! I sweet-talked the security guards at the Mendel so that they would make sure Emil in his wheelchair got in the door before the waiting hordes. We waited impatiently on the building's ramp, about 20 feet from Our Joan, while the dignitaries babbled through their speeches (I hate speeches, usually, but loved hearing Joni praised to the stars and appreciated). My husband saw the next day's newspaper photo of Joni sitting there listening to the speeches, and said "She looks just like a little girl, sitting there." It must have felt good for her to finally, FINALLY be celebrated in her own home town, and to be made such a big deal of there. She may be used to it elsewhere, but back in Saskatchewan we are not overly-expressive and we tend to admire from afar, and quietly. Once we had seen the paintings (I meant to go back for a less obstucted [by people] viewing later in the week, on my way back through the city, but never got there), Emil was anxious to meet Joni, but by the time we got down the hill and to the refreshment tent, the only glimpse we saw of her was the top of a blonde head in the glare of filming lights and surrounded by people asking for autographs. Now autographs mean diddly-squat to me, and so would shaking Joni's hand in an organized line-up (I don't care about those things; for me they are superficial formalities - -- although I admit I could be wrong, since I haven't had the experience), so I made little effort to inch the wheelchair closer to her. I had told Emil that he was already very lucky to have seen Joni at the podium, and that many people wanted to meet her so that not everyone would be able to, unfortunately, because of sheer numbers. He was willing to settle for that perspective, but still hoped to meet her. One advantage of having a handicapped child (Emil has cerebral palsy; he could have got around with his elbow crutches, but the crowds might have made that dangerous for him) is that people's natural kindness comes out in droves and as his mother I get to see this all the time. People give Emil a little extra attention and are extremely patient with him, and I find this warming my heart often. As we pushed our way through the crowd in the tent and in the gallery, people considerately moved aside without being asked, or leaned over to talk to Emil and smile at me; one fellow stopped me to talk, and said his wife was the person who took John's "book" into Joni in the gallery -- he told me the whole story, and it was the first time I'd heard it. Yay, John! How wonderful to have something you put so much of your heart into actually make it into her hands and be so appreciated by her! I wish I could have seen your art. And thank you for your extra consideration for Emil; you and Penny and Rick and Chris, among others. One of my favourite quotations is: "Take a child by the hand and you take its mother by the heart." It is so true. I particularly got a kick out of Emil's comments about John: "Mom, Mom! His skin is so dark! Do you think I could get my skin like that?" Well, lightning flashed, thunder roared, and the skies poured themselves empty. My sandalled ankles were soaked from walking around in the tent, whose paved floor had deep puddles in it in many places. At about 10 pm I was getting weary and realizing that I wouldn't make it back up the muddy hill with Emil in his wheelchair, no way, no how. I called upon the security guards to lend me a hand, and they kindly took us in a back door on the ground floor and hauled him in his wheelchair up a flight of stairs to the main floor of the gallery -- uncomplainingly, with smiles. God, I love people. There, I spoke to a security guard I had talked to earlier. She told me that Joni was overwhelmed by all the mobbing, and was upstairs in the director's office getting a few minutes of much-desired privacy. She said there would be a guard at the bottom of the stairs, keeping fans out, but that I could ask this guard to go to Joni and request she come down and meet Emil. I thought it was worth a try, and if it didn't work, I could at least say I'd done my best for the kidlet. We headed for the back stairs. Just as we got there, who should be descending, flowers in one arm, surrounded by people, and exuding tremendous beauty and presence, but Our Joan. As she stepped off the bottom step, I pushed the wheelchair right up to her and said "Joni, will you please meet this child?" She stopped, said "Sure" and bent towards Emil, offering him her hand. He took it and began to talk her ear off. "Hi, Joni Mitchell! I'm Emil. I like your paintings. I like your music. I have your Chalkmark in a Rainstorm cd. We have lots of your cds. We have a video of you. Maybe you and I could get to know each other someday." Joni is nodding, focussed on Emil, saying "oh, do you?" and "that would be nice" and such, bent over looking into his face. At about this point Emil began repeating himself, so I said to him "You have to let Joni go now, because many other people are waiting to meet her tonight." "Goodbye, Joni Mitchell," he said, releasing her hand. Of course, it all happened so fast that it is somewhat surreal and I am not sure I am remembering everything that was said. Much as I love and admire Joni and would hug her to pieces, given the chance (for it feels as if she has been talking to me for 26 years, even though I have never been able to answer her), I felt very much (and it was fine with me) like an unnoticed bystander for those few moments. Until she walked away, past me, looked me in the eye, and gave my arm a gentle squeeze. It was a momentary connection and a sweet, heartfelt gesture that I cherish and will never forget. And that's my report. I hope I haven't rambled too much. I have enjoyed reading Ashara's glowing account of her trip through western Canada. It always feels good to have this country appreciated and found beautiful, as it is. Kate of the North ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:19:10 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Furry Lewis (was: Synchronicity, etc.) At 7/15/2000 10:37 AM, P. Henry wrote: >rose wondered: >"I wonder who Old Furry really was?" > >here's some info on that: >http://www.memphisguide.com/music2/blues/bluesartists/furry.html >http://thebluehighway.com/furry.html You can also find a lot of info here on the JMDL site: http://www.jmdl.com/glossary/furry.cfm Les NP: Patty Larkin on perpetual repeat these days ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:27:23 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: better late than never In a message dated 7/15/00 1:09:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, katej@connect.ab.ca writes: << It was a momentary connection and a sweet, heartfelt gesture that I cherish and will never forget. And that's my report. I hope I haven't rambled too much. >> Kate, for heavens sake you weren't rambling at all!! Thanks so very very much for sharing your wonderful story with the list. I got such a tingly feeling reading how you and Emil got to meet Joni. What a wonderful mother and child the two of you are, and I'm so happy you both had such a great time in Saskatoon! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:53:32 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Joni's World View Richard Rice posted: > Hi Park Ranger Rick! > Forgive me, if I > may add a quick comment here to a subject that deserves a lot of thought > and investigation. In many ways I think Joni's simplistic comments are > often drawn from very complex and varied points of reflection. The whole > getting simplified to quick 'off the cuff' commentary for the press, > when in fact they are subjects given a great deal of thought on her > part. For instance, she has made many 'off the cuff' comments about > medicine and alternative medicine. These comments, seemingly simplistic, > often quite colorful, are in fact borne out of years of painful > experience, meditation, and searches for alternative treatments. We just > get the snippets. And they do leave one scratching one's head wondering, > "Huh?" But I love that about her interviews as much as her colorful > stories. There's always room for creative reflection with her. I agree with you on this John. Wouldn't it be great to sit down with her and explore a topic like this in detail! > I think some of > these comments are drawn from reflections about music, as much as > anything. Music, Art and Philosophy. Favorite subjects of hers. The > intellect she speaks of in the 'white' race could be seen as a > simplistic reflection on classical (white) music tradition which is a > very rational, orderly, intellectual form of beauty. So structured in > fact, you could play classical music backwards and it still holds up. > The 'emotionality' of the black race a reflection on the contributions > of black music. The heart felt african rhythms informing the blues of > the slaves informing the spirit of jazz informing the roll in rock right > through to today's rap scene. And so forth. I like this musical take on her comments. I don't know enough about Asian music to be able to say the interpretation holds up completely but it does add another dimension to the discussion. > As I side bar, I too was taken aback by Joni's comment about the > acceptance of homosexuality as a sign of cultural decline. And for the > longest time I disliked the song "Sex Kills" as I thought it was very > shallow commentary about one of the most important travails in human > history. As a sidebar to your sidebar, I was in a plumbing supply warehouse the other day and heard one employee say to another (while reading a newspaper story on the AIDS crisis in Africa), "I guess this AIDS thing is no joke, eh?" Fortunately, his co-worker responded with, "It hasn't been a joke for twenty years." All good things Rick p.s. I still have a pic of you and Rich that I want to email to you. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:13:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart In a message dated 7/15/00 12:27:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Merk54@aol.com writes: << Joni originally wrote and recorded Man from Mars for the movie soundtrack of Grace of My Heart. For continuity purposes, the director decided to use the actresses version of the song in the movie. Joni got a little miffed about this, and consequently made them use the actresses version on the CD. >> What actress are you talking about? Illeana Douglas played "Grace" in the movie, but did not sing "Man From Mars," though I think it was her singing "Grace of My Heart" in the movie and then they used the Elvis Costello version as the credits rolled. The non-Joni version of "Man From Mars" used in the movie and soundtrack album was sung by Kristen Vigard, not Vigaro. It seems to me we had this better documented before you came along with your "time-saving" info. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:16:09 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's World View In a message dated 7/15/00 12:49:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catman@tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk writes: << Maybe Joni is amongst those of us who do not believe the 21st century starts until 2001. >> All y'all (the plural of y'all) can believe whatever you want, but that is a statement of fact. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:16:12 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: better late than never > > And that's my report. I hope I haven't rambled too much. Well this one brought some moisture to my eyes & even a little sob. That was a beautiful report, Kate. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. If that's rambling, then ramble on some more! I love it! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 11:27:59 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart IVPAUL42@aol.com posted: > It seems to me we had this better documented before you came along with > your "time-saving" info. Paul you are so weird. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:41:33 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Joni's World View - --part1_97.824fb3b.26a20a5d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --part1_97.824fb3b.26a20a5d_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: From: SMEBD@aol.com Full-name: SME BD Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:41:05 EDT Subject: Re: Joni's World View To: jlamadoo@one.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 104 In a message dated 7/15/00 1:03:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net writes: << It sounds, as she explains in her own voice, like a Native American concept because it's Earth-centric. Ground-based. >> It is indeed a Native American concept. I don't know the whole concept, but have heard a Native American blessing in which the Gods of the four directions are blessed. I agree--I don't think that the comment was racist. Stephen - --part1_97.824fb3b.26a20a5d_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 15:20:22 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace of My Heart SJC Some corrections to my post (having finished viewing the movie again) It's Chuck Berghofer, the bassist who's in the documentary. Kristen Vigard does sing God Give Me Strength completely in the film, but only the piano/vocal version. The orchestrated version is not heard completely and would be really great to hear. And one more addendum: The final song in the film, "A Boat on the Sea", which is co-written by Larry Klein is such a Joni homage, with her piano style and harmonies from the LOTC and Blue period, that I wonder if in fact it's Joni playing piano on the track. Probably not, but it must have been fun for Klein to produce something like it given his relationship to Joni. Did anyone ever hear anything about the production of the song? Paul Peterson ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 14:30:20 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Fwd: Joni's World View Calling the four quarters is also a Wiccan tradition. One someone is setting up the altar one of the ways to do it is to lay four large stones in each direction (east, west, north, south) and to call the gods of those directions to enter their circle. Each direction has their own special power (earth, air, fire, water I think). NR: The Effect Of Gamma Rays On Man-In-The-Moon Marigolds by Paul Zindel (whew! and I hardly read, but this one is so good) At 2:41 PM -0400 7/15/00, SMEBD@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 7/15/00 1:03:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlamadoo@one.net >writes: > ><< It sounds, as > she explains in her own voice, like a Native American concept because it's > Earth-centric. Ground-based. >> > >It is indeed a Native American concept. I don't know the whole concept, but >have heard a Native American blessing in which the Gods of the four >directions are blessed. I agree--I don't think that the comment was racist. > >Stephen - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ "Close it yourself, shitty!" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 01:20:42 +0100 From: catman Subject: a walk on the moon Just watched this movie. Whilst watching, Cactus tree starts to play. john starts singing along. oh, i thought, he's singing a Joni song! I had this when i was a student, he says, nostalgically. i was about to say: you didn't tell me you owned a Joni record. but before i had the chance he says: but i can't remember who it was by incredulous, I say: JONI MITCHELL even more incredulous, he says: what happened to her? pardon? I say, thinking to myself: i play her loads for years and he is asking me this? Is he getting forgetful in his old age? her voice. what happened to her voice? he says. apparently I play the newer stuff mostly when he is around. In all these years of me playing Joni he hadn't twigged that my Joni was the same Joni who sang on his copy of STAS which i didn't even know he had! My guess is that if I didn't know Joni and someone played me STAS and then TI I would not know they were the same singer. bw colin - -- Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds? http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/index.html http://www.tantra.fsbusiness.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 22:12:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni's World View > But, was she saying that she disapproved of contemporary culture's > downfall, or approved of it? > > > Matt Snyder > that's a very good question indeed! i've been going through articles and i haven't found the one i referred to yet. i am almost sure that she was disparaging the current [then] state of affairs. i say this because when i finally heard DED, the line ''in every culture in decline, etc.." reminded me of the interview. i thought, '' so she decided to leave the homosexual part out''. in any case, i'd like to quote her more in context, so i'll keep on looking for the article. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:20:21 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's World View (VLJC) John writes: <> But music is a matter of culture, not race. And there are non-European classical music traditions (in India for instance), and also *non*-classical "white" (European) folk music traditions. I know you said it was a simplification and a sound-bite, but even if it had been amplified and qualified I think Joni's statement would still be just inaccurate -- and furthermore, in my opinion, potentially harmful (despite being well-meaning). Paul I. wrote: <> Yes it would -- if you renamed/redefined "east" and "west." Of course there's no reason to do that, so your analogy is specious, but the important concept is that the physical reality of our location in relation to where the sun rises is one thing, but our definition is something else -- there's nothing inherent or natural about the *term* "east" for where the sun rises (though that doesn't make the term any less valuable). The sun only rises in the "east" because of where/what we decided "east" was. Similarly, there's nothing inherent about emotionality, depth, intellect, etc. -- they're *learned* traits. (They may also be considered cultural values, but then that brings up the question of whether and how they can be meaningfully defined and ascribed by one culture to another.) Race is a much more complicated construct than names for compass directions, and not nearly so arbitrary or innocuous (about as arbitrary as putting imperial Britain at the center of the world, zero degrees longitude - -- an example of how physical location can be defined in terms of ideology). Race is *not* a fact or truth. It comes out of European social science (or pseudoscience) of the 19th and early 20th centuries, the purpose of which was to codify European ("white") superiority and to justify European imperialism. I don't think you can discuss race abstractly, without discussing racism. Race is an invention -- an ideology. One need only look at how constructs of race or of "whiteness" have changed over time and place for proof of this -- for example, the "Celtic race" theory by which the British in the late 19th century ascribed to the Irish "racial characteristics," including physical traits, similar or identical to those they ascribed to Africans in order to justify their colonial domination and exploitation of Ireland and its people. I don't think there's a similar history in the U.S. -- don't we consider the Irish and Irish-Americans white? On the one hand the Irish are "scientifically" excluded from "whiteness" -- but when they are assimilated somewhat into the dominant *culture* then they become "white." And again -- rejecting the concept of race does not mean denying difference. Difference is no less real, meaningful and valuable for being a matter of culture (among other things) and not of race. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:00:22 -0700 From: "Ray & Cathy" Subject: re: Yvette in English I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to what Yvette means when she says, "Please have this little bit of instant bliss". This is such a pretty song, but I just don't get it. Cathy in Oregon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:09:29 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Mendel page on JMDL site Joniphiles - Finally... the Mendel write-ups have been collected on a page on the JMDL site: http://www.jmdl.com/performances/docs/000630.cfm If anyone has any more pictures that they'd like displayed on the page, send them my way! Thanks, Les ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 23:40:02 EDT From: Hejira924@aol.com Subject: Putting politics to rest Joni has never been a racist - she celebrates all of our differences - white, black, Amer.Indian, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Straight, Gay, Male and Female. I dare anyone to say there has ever been an artist this century or any century who has had the sensitivity and insights towards all of humankind as much as Joni! What are we doing here debating her appreciation of each group's unique gifts to our planet? And, PLEASE don't abuse this wonderful discussion list to trash the First Lady- there are plenty of other websites where hatred and cynicism towards Hillary may be welcome, but not here (onlyJMDL). For those who haven't seen the TNT tribute to Joni, Hillary Clinton is at her most sincere and as big a fan of Joni's as any of us, when she relates listening to "Chelsea Morning" and naming her daughter after the song. It's not about politics, it's about the common love of Joni's music that binds us all. There need to more people in this world promoting Joni's positive visions, and fewer politicians denying if they ever snorted coke, still ashamed of having lived in the 1960's! And with regards to Staten Island being an island, don't expect to find too much cultural diversity there (unlike Manhattan or the Hawaiian islands). I live in NYC and the best thing that can be said about Staten Island is what Joni already said about it in "Song for Sharon." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 00:52:00 -0400 From: Jim and/or Jay Subject: Re: John Kelley Bob asked: > Does anyone know if John Kelly is still performing his Joni act? And if so, > where can he be seen? I heard that he performs in Provincetown, Massachusetts > during the summer, but I couldn't find him listed in a current P-town guide. John is a multi-talented performer who just finished a long stint on Broadway in "James Joyce's The Dead". I've seen him perform the Paved Paradise show four times. The first time was the legendary night that Joni was also in the audience (at The Fez in NYC) which was simply magical. He performed the show in Provincetown last summer but I got a sense it wasn't a great gig for him. The place he performed wasn't a great venue and he wasn't able to attract the crowds he really deserves. I doubt he'll be back this summer. From what I've heard, John loves doing the Paved Paradise show and will likely continue to perform and expand it. But he probably does not want to be pegged merely as a Joni impersonator so he will likely be busy with other gigs and projects most of the time. Much like Joni herself, he wouldn't want to get stuck having to "paint A Starry Night again, man." For a great profile on John featured in POZ magazine a few years back, check out... http://www.thebody.com/poz/profiles/5_98/kelly.html D.J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Angshuman Dasgupta Subject: Well I discovered her last month... Well - over the last 6 years I've been losing everbody that made a difference in my life - systematically. And listening to lots of music to fill the void and to love something beyond myself. And last month I heard Joni Mitchell... now all day I'm shedding tears of joy and listening to everything she said and sung. Not one song goes by without me thinking that the world would be amuch poorer place without her. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #296 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?