From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #280 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, July 7 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 280 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: songs for and about joni ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: songs for and about joni ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Larry Klein question. [MP123A321@aol.com] Re: Mendel Catalogues [RoseMJoy@aol.com] Joni [SuzyMQue@aol.com] Re: Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: songs for and about joni [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: songs for and about joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! [B Merrill ] songs for and about joni [Steve Dulson ] Joni's DJRD cover dress listed on e-Bay! ["c Karma" ] BBC quote [catman ] Re: songs for and about joni ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: songs for and about joni ["Kate Bennett" ] Mendel card [susan+rick ] Re: songs for and about joni [Murphycopy@aol.com] songs about Joni ["Michael Bird" ] the Court and spark review ["James Phillips" ] Not to Blame-JFK JR response [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us] Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us] original Joni photo/1968 [peves@marlboro.edu] Not to Blame part 2 [DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us] Re: songs for and about joni [RickieLee1@aol.com] Article from the globeandmail.com Web Centre [Rose Marie Joy ] Re: Not to Blame-JFK JR response [catman ] Re: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... ["Kakki" ] Re: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... ["Kakki" ] CDR Trade? CDR Weed/Tree? Mingus Tour in S.F. [david ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:00:11 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: songs for and about joni Mark wrote: >I'm almost postive Guinnevere was written for Chrissie Hinton (I >think) who was killed before Deja Vu was recorded. (CSN entusiasts >please correct me) From David Crosby's autobiography (Long Time Gone): Carl Gottlieb (co-author): By the time Joni's record came out, she was an industry legend, properly positioned for breakout success. It followed, as did romantic complications between Joan, David, and Graham (Nash). If this were an opera, the next remarks would be sung simultaneously, as a trio. Three people's lives were braided together and others would join a tangled skein that would finally drive every one of the artists involved to write a song about the experience: Graham Nash's "Our House," Joni Mitchell's "Willy," and David Crosby's "Guinnevere," a song that's generally identified with Christine Hinton. In fact, the third verse of "Guinnevere" was inspired by Joni Mitchell. David believes that "Dawntreader" is at least in part about him and he's willing to concede now that at least a part of "Guinnevere" was for Joni. And the third verse of "Guinnevere" is: Guinnevere Had golden hair Like yours, m'lady like yours Streaming out when we'd ride Through the warm wind down by the bay Yesterday Seagulls circle endlessly I sing in silent harmony We shall be free Anything else you'd like to know? (Just kidding)! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:07:48 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: songs for and about joni Another song written specifically about Joni is "Simple Man" by Graham Nash: Nash: "The day before the Fillmore East show in June of 1970 I broke up with Joni Mitchell and my whole world fell apart. The afternoon of that show I wrote this song and that evening I performed it live for the first time, with Joni sitting in the audience. I don't know how I got through that." If anyone is interested in the lyrics, let me know. Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 21:36:29 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! I know this has been discussed at length here in the past, but I didn't really take part then, so I've decided to open the can of worms again. I've got a confession, and one I'm glad to make. I LOVE Dog Eat Dog! I finally got hold of a CD copy this week, after listening to vinyl up until now (which doesn't work in a CD walkman). So it's been playing constantly on my CD player at work for the last three days - grooving away with my earphones on, and tempted to yell "Yaaaahoooo" at the top of my lungs every time "Shiny Toys" comes on. I don't understand why people here don't rate this album higher? The tunes and lyrics are good, the synthesisers, etc. don't sound overdone to my uneducated ears. Maybe I'm not a purist? Maybe it's because I formed my "musical ears" in the 80's when this kind of music was popular? Maybe it's because many of the songs have an "upbeat" kind of feel to them, and maybe that's the same reason WTRF gets the same kind of criticism - it's not Joni with her soul laid bare (and bleeding)? I know I'm treading on really dangerous ground here, but I don't care. I know what I like, and I'd rather listen to Dog Eat Dog than Clouds any day of the week. So there. Like the lady herself says: "Whatever makes you "Yahoo", whatever makes your time feel satisfying" Hell - glad to be living 10,000 miles away so the flame-throwers can't reach me, but putting on my asbestos underpants just in case. _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 06:11:43 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! - ---------- > From: Helen M. Adcock > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! > Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 5:36 AM her soul laid bare (and bleeding)? > > I know I'm treading on really dangerous ground here, but I don't care. I > know what I like, and I'd rather listen to Dog Eat Dog than Clouds any day > of the week. So there. > > Like the lady herself says: "Whatever makes you "Yahoo", whatever makes your > time feel satisfying" Helen, I've been off the list for a while, so I didn't catch the DED thread. However, I agree with you. I too like DED and would rather listen to that then Clouds. I really prefer Joni's stuff from For the Roses on. Thanks to Joni's jazz influence over the years, I have become a big jazz fan too. Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 06:31:55 -0400 (EDT) From: mr_lovesaint@webtv.net Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #372 hi there ! im jess from atlanta and i was just writing to ask you... well neve mind... sheesh .. im way to late i bet... sorry , i just got home from work. Jess p.s. : reading yours and everyone else's post's about your trip to canda make me fel so happy... my heart is smiling. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:07:38 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: July 5 Globe and Mail, on Voices Portrait of a singer's inner soul Like her songs, Joni Mitchell's paintings depict the links between life and art. ROBERT ENRIGHT Special to The Globe and Mail Wednesday, July 5, 2000 Saskatoon -- In her liner notes for Mingus,the collaborative album with the great jazz composer, which she released in 1979, Joni Mitchell described her songs as "audio paintings." This commingling of sonic and visual pictures has always been at the centre of Mitchell's sensibility. And it helps to explain the range of the 87 works in various media that make up voices: The work of Joni Mitchell, her 30-year retrospective curated by director Gilles Hébert, which opened Friday at the Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon. Mitchell is among a handful of singer-songwriters -- the list includes Bob Dylan, Van Morrison and Leonard Cohen -- who have irretrievably, and for the better, altered pop music in this century. Her richly textured and layered lyrics are autobiographical fragments of a life lived, if not in the fast lane, at least in an intense one. "I want to get up and jive," she declares in All I Want from 1971's Blue."I want to wreck my stockings in some jukebox dive." The singer's visual art reflects the same relationship between life and art that characterizes her lyrics, although sometimes in a more transparent way. In her musical life, Mitchell has been obliged to pay at least cursory attention to the requirements of the music industry, but in her painting life she has followed only her own instincts. The result is a body of work that is less homogenous than honorific; Mitchell has painted who and what she likes with no concessions to either art fashion or market pressures. That said, she wears her tributary heart on her sleeve for critics to peck at. Picasso and Matisse are at the top of the list. Visual echoes of David Hockney and Larry Rivers also register in her work but they seem part of a larger, unsystematic eclecticism that leads her to paint in a wide number of styles. There are structured abstractions, traditional prairie landscapes, expressionist portraits, Pre-Raphaelite evocations, craggy realism and even witty spoofs of Canadian wilderness painting. Clearly, Mitchell likes to sit on the questioning edge: Her self-portrait as van Gogh, sans ear, for example, is a darkly wry comment on her reception in the music business. But in spite of all the visual quotation, Mitchell remains curiously distant from the art world -- distant and solitary. What does emerge with the clarity of a meadowlark's song is the lasting effect the prairies have played in shaping her art. Mitchell's early landscapes, such as The Road to Uncle Lyle's, No. 1, were attempts to frame the vast prairie space by structuring the landscape as a series of interlocking forms -- a highway sign, a section of field, a piece of land viewed through a rear-view mirror. She was a kind of tectonic surveyor, or a landscape gambler shuffling the components of prairie space as if they belonged to a deck of cards. To the extent that Mitchell's hand hadn't caught up to her mind, they were better ideas than paintings. Recently, she has depicted the landscape in more conventional ways: In 40 Below 0,1995, the wintry sky has a look of impenetrable, almost nuclear cold; The Road to Waskesui, 1995, is a deftly realized minimal landscape showing Mitchell at her most subtle. The images that most effectively embody her sense of comfort with the prairie were actually the product of a happy accident. A series of 20 photographs began as unintended double exposures that were subsequently manipulated into startling bodyscapes, in which the artist's flatland presence is captured in a kind of eerie transcendence, her eyes peering out along the horizon from a collapsed outbuilding, or her facial features a spooky blur of grassland -- The Blair Witch Project meets Little House on the Prairie. While Mitchell's most recent work is doggedly figurative and representational, she has made abstract paintings before that remain her most compelling. These often sumptuous works include The Ice Offering, 1976; Round About Midnight, 1991; and Black Orpheus, No. 2, 1985 -- all fine paintings, even as they make evident the painters who inspired them. The Ice Offering looks like Hans Hofmann, but the middle section, where the pigment vibrates and fattens up, is Mitchell's own. Round About Midnight is a dark tribute to Monet. Black Orpheus uses every technique available to a contemporary painter -- its layered surface is scraped, dripped and otherwise made beautiful through a rich agitation. The Stranger, 1991, is the best painting in the exhibition. It looks to be an abstract variation on a Vuillard interior that opens onto a garden of riotous colour. The abstractions and the self-portraits, in which Mitchell strikes various poses, are the high points of the show -- evidence that the hands Mitchell deals best, in fact, regard herself and the process that transforms the abstract contents of her mind into the elegant layers of her painted imagination. It's impossible not to view this show through the kaleidoscopic prism of Mitchell's music and lyrics, and the Mendel wouldn't be looking at her work were she a painter who came in off the street. But unlike other celebrities who have picked up an art form (Bryan Adams, the photographer, comes immediately to mind), Mitchell has been working at painting for more than four decades; she also studied at the Alberta College of Art. Still, despite that early training and her persistent avocation, Mitchell emerges as a worldly version of a naive artist, indifferent to art trends and the positioning that has so much to do with contemporary art. At the press conference in advance of the opening, she admitted that Le Douanier Rousseau was her favourite painter in her formative years. Like him, she addresses the world she lives in, and the places and figures who share it with her, and then depicts them in a sort of painted romance. She also said that "you have to decide if you want to be a star or if you want to be an artist." In voices, her status as a star will initially attract people to the Mendel. But her genuine aspiration to be an artist is what will keep them there long after the novelty wears off of a pop icon who paints. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~I like cats. They give the home a heartbeat. / Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:08:59 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Larry Klein question. I recently bought an old Stereo Review magazine with a April '76 Joni cover story. I was paging through the mag and noticed a question and answer section by Larry Klein, Technical Editor. There is a picture/drawing that resembles him. Does anyone have recollection of him (Joni's Ex) writing for this magazine? The Joni portion of the article is on JMDL Articles site. BTW, this magazine appears to be where bootleggers ripped off the artwork for the Joni bootleg Polsall and Mosalm. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:38:19 EDT From: RoseMJoy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mendel Catalogues Oh, Ashara, I wish I had know before hand you had done this. I just purchased one yesterday online. Does anyone have photos from the Mendel??? I'm dying to see some. I have pics of BSN, TNT and MSG '98 that I'd be willing to share. I've been long at work on an online photo album of all the pics I've taken thus far, but I've been having trouble with the upload on this one site that stores your photos to share with friends. During the upload, they've been coming out all distorted like. When I finally figure out how best to do this. I'll invite all of you there. I've never seen photos of her parents. I don't know what they even look like. Rose ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:48:23 EDT From: SuzyMQue@aol.com Subject: Joni Hi listers, I'm a first time "poster" but have been reading all the wonderful comments on your trip to Canada.......and as one of you says, living vicariously through you all. Thanks for sharing all your wonderful memories. Joni has been my hero since I began listening to her 30 years ago.......her songs, her words bring such heartfelt tidings. Again, thanks to all of you for helping me remember the wisdom in her words. Suzy from the Sunny South ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jul 07 08:06:10 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni <> Hi Suzy, and welcome! Or should I say "Hey"! ;~) Did you see Joni in Atlanta this year? Bob, fellow southerner in Greenville, SC ("Sunny South" is a nice way of putting it - HOTTER THAN THE PITS OF HELL is maybe closer to the truth! :~D) NP (Now Playing): James Cotton, "down at your buryin'" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:41:57 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: songs for and about joni In a message dated 7/6/00 11:49:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << There aren't any conclusive lists that I've seen, Bob. As for CD's, we could add these into the "Covers & Contributions" series. Whaddya think, gang? Personally, I'm not in favor of it, but I'm open to discussion... >> I don't know Bob, this could be the kind of thing to get me and Kakki and a few others out to the record stores! Imagine the research involved! Stephen (with a gleam in his eyes) ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jul 07 09:50:24 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: songs for and about joni <> Well, in case you get so inspired, I have the Luka Bloom recording, studio & live, and the Van Ronk, and the Neil. I also have the CSN stuff, and of course I have "Tangled Up in Blue". Even if you don't like Dylan, Blood On The Tracks has to be in every collection, could be a law, I don't know...:~D Bob NP: James Cotton, "sad letter" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 08:40:32 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Danger, Will Robinson! Dog Eat Dog Content! >I've got a confession, and one I'm glad to make. I LOVE Dog Eat Dog! My wayward child, do not say that you are glad to confess, but that you are pleased to unburden yourself. Now, Rise above your canine inclinations. Say 270 Hail Mary's, burn your Thomas Dolby posters, and Sin No More! - --Father Father PS Before I took my vows, I myself would consort with the mother of all techno-pop: "Pop Music," by M. "Boogie with a suitcase..." Perish the thought! Then I renounced sin. Follow me. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 10:11:53 -0700 From: Michael Cooper Subject: Rustlist Raffling of Joni Design poster Thought the Joni-folk might be interested in this item which is being raffled off on the Neil Young Rust List. The raffle benefits The Bridge School.: Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 07:40:37 -0400 From: Louis Cheffy Subject: WRF added prize i missed the request for prizes, so adding one late - its an artist signed poster for the added july 13, 1974, csny, joe walsh & barnstorm, the band, and jesse colin young concert at oakland coliseum... scan available on request (wasnt sure it was ok to send the image to the rust list? it does load quickly though)... about 23 x 17, yellow, with design art by joni mitchell (identical to so far album cover) and lettering art by randy tuten, who signed the poster... probably a reprint, but its a long story... it is in near mint shape (or, if you like the lame ebay grading, mint shape)... i will ship it directly to the winner, rolled, in a very strong mailing tube... i know its late in the game, but sure would make me feel like i helped if this generated some raffle $$$ for the bridge school... value, very hard to say in the poster world, probably between $40 and $100 (if a collector really wanted it at the right moment), and $50 to $60 is probably about right... (tuten's signature is not a difficult one to obtain, and probably adds only $10 or so to the item)... think that covers it, but happy to answer any questions about it... peace... lou, more to the picture... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 15:50:52 +0100 From: catman Subject: A Day In The Garden/mendel I just ordered the poster and catalogue. The pics look great and so do the ones done by Jamie and Raff. Thanks boys. I really like a lot of those pics. Some people seem to have it all don't they? Not only the ability to wqrite and sing beautiful music but to paint as well! gee. I have also seen the Day In The Garden concert video coutesy of Jackie Gertus. thanks jackie. And, even tho I don't normally like live music, I did enjoy this one. - -- http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/Tantra.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 07:54:13 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: songs for and about joni Ken S. wrote, re "Tangled Up In Blue": >It's possibly true. In a post from the Dylan list a >while back someone said that Dylan had been listening >to Joni's album "Blue" which inspired him to write >that song. Do remember though that Dylan was in close >contact with David Blue at that time As was Joni ;) Don't forget Stan Rogers' "So Blue"...and no, Stan WASN'T fooling around with David at the time... :) - -- ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 08:13:35 PDT From: "c Karma" Subject: Joni's DJRD cover dress listed on e-Bay! Dear Folks, Some of you may be interested to know that Joni's cover dress from Don Juan's Reckless Daughter has been listed on e-Bay. The item number is 375984435 and will be on auction until 7/16. The listed price is $400., and the description says it's a U.S. size 10 which probably pre-cludes John Kelly from winning it. Mooslems, mooslems! Heh, heh, heh, C.C. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 17:18:54 +0100 From: catman Subject: BBC quote Every record I have done is genius. i can see why they didn't connect but it is not my problem. kd lang-taking her cue from Joni? - -- http://www.geocities.com/tantra_apso/Tantra.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:37:09 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: songs for and about joni rotfl...have any of you seen "High Fidelity"? i know it was a topic of discussion a while back, but bob's assesment of "Blood.." just reminded me of it. if you haven't seen it yet, you must must must! it has several joni references as well. alison e. in slc. - ---------- >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Even if you don't like Dylan, Blood On >The Tracks has to be in every collection, could be a law, I don't know...:~D > >Bob > >NP: James Cotton, "sad letter" > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:10:10 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Re: songs for and about joni From: Mark Domyancich: I'm almost postive Guinnevere was written for Chrissie Hinton (I think) who was killed before Deja Vu was recorded. (CSN entusiasts please correct me) Yes, you are right--I have heard Croz say that. Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter Santa Barbara, CA website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 11:08:47 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Mendel card Oh how I wish I had snagged fifty cards but I'm sorry to say that all the announcement cards are spoken for. I've notified the winners so if you haven't heard privately from me, you didn't win. Sorry Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:29:49 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: songs for and about joni From Salon.com's "Brilliant Careers:" Mitchell recorded "Clouds" while living with new lover Graham Nash, who meanwhile was inspired by a day of antiquing with her to write "Our House" for his new band, Crosby, Stills and Nash. (In another example of Mitchell's knack for leaving art in the wake of her sometimes messy personal life, Crosby wrote the ethereal "Guinnevere" after she left him for Nash, though it was also said to be partly about his former girlfriend, to whom he was returning.) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 14:38:20 -0500 From: "Michael Bird" Subject: songs about Joni I believe that Sonic Youth song is called "Hey Joni." "Hey Joni, we're all behind you!" Luka Bloom in concert in Dublin, December 1994, introducing "To Begin To": "This song is about a night I spent on a couch with a French au pair and Joni Mitchell." (He was trying to get the au pair "in the mood" and so put on BLUE for atmosphere.) "Blue, to begin to, blue, such a warm feeling! Amelia! California!" Tangled up in Blue?!? "Wondering if she had changed at all, if her hair was still red ... her folks, they set our lives together ... she was working in a topless place and I stopped in for a beer ..." I can relate to getting Tangled up in "Blue" but I don't know about the veracity of this claim. Nickel Chief NP: Dylan, and why not? "It's all over now, Baby Blue." ("Take what you have gathered from coincidence ... ") ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 20:02:11 GMT From: "James Phillips" Subject: the Court and spark review Dear all, I finally listened to Court and Spark all the way through. It was strange hearing some of the songs I've heard Joni perform solo in studio finery. It was strange hearing People's Parties and Just like this train with addional instrumentation. I like the song order and the flow of the music. It is a *big* departure for Joni when you compare it with even For the Roses. The added instumentation on most every track. Then closing it with a jazzy reading of Twisted. How different. I must say that you can already hear the affects of smoking on Joni's voice on this album. I can tell that everything is in lower keys than the first albums were. Anyways this album gets a 10 out of 10 review from me. Next to listen to: Wild things run fast ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 16:08:44 -0400 From: "M & C Urbanski" Subject: Re: not so twisted Some JC Colin wrote: >You see I forget I am in my 40's and inside feel young so assumed > you all were too!...I keep > fogetting that i am that old too! I know what you mean! I still feel like I'm in my 20's! When I went to the Joni concert in Detroit, it hit me up side the head to see all these "OLD" people at her concert; only to have those faces mirror back that I too at 43 look like them. However, when Joni was late in coming on stage and the quartet was playing, someone on the grass yelled "play FREE BIRD"! I figured we all feel the same way. "Am I just fighting off growing old? All I ever wanted was just to come in from the cold" Glad you're back! Marilyn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 13:43:04 -0700 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: Not to Blame-JFK JR response From: SMTP%"Carole@escapetech.com" 4-MAY-2000 20:24:51.07 To: DARICEM CC: Subj: JB: What JFK, Jr. said... Message-ID: From: Carole To: "'everyman@angus.mystery.com'" Subject: JB: What JFK, Jr. said... Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 19:49:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-everyman@angus.mystery.com Reply-To: Carole X-Loop: Majordomo @ NSTS Precedence: bulk {#} {#} I had remembered reading on this list about an interview with JFK, Jr., and found the post that reported it. Here is the description of the tape... the interview was a television interview just before or at the time of George magazine; the date on the tape says Nov. 96 but it may not be correct He talks about his mother and father, the murder of his father and uncle...standard stuff. The interviewer is someone I don't recognize but it may be Maria Shriver--someone guaranteed to be "gentle". It does look kind of like Shriver, but not quite.This woman is heavier--pregnant, maybe? But there is a certain familiar feel to it, as if they know each other well, so maybe. She brings up Daryl, he doesn't. He calls it a "queer relationship...off and on. She was involved at one point...involved elsewhere." He kind of smiles. The interviewer asks about Jackson Browne and JFK Jr says "I like him. I like his music. He seems nice enough." She asks if he thinks "it" happened, and he says "It? you mean do I think he..um, hit her? No. I think he probably wanted to, and she knew that. She has that effect at times." He seems to consider, then says, "daryl sometimes exagerrates things...she gets an idea...Daryl is more complex than you might think. And I think there was alot of family pressure, about Jackson...not his age, just...the families know each other. And I think she felt pressure about the way she...they had problems, and I think some of her family was upset by that. And she felt she had to say certain things to not be blamed for the problems. she got stuck in it, and then had to carry it on. " the interviewer than asks if he means he thinks Daryl lied, and he says "I don't want to give the impression she does that, but ...yes. I think it got out of hand on her, and now she is stuck with it. He is stuck too, which is sad. But I wasn't there and I don't know for sure. Could he have done it?" he shrugged. "Could she make you want to hit her? Yes. But I'm sure I have made women want to hit me, to be fair." They then went on to other subjects. > - - To unsubscr!be from the list, send email to majordomo@angus.mystery.com No subject, and in the body put unsubscr!be everyman or unsubscr!be everyman-digest, correctly spelled of course :) {#} ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:29:33 -0700 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... I have forwarded a post from the Jackson Browne list which is a transcript of an interview of JFK Jr from a tv show. His views on this "incident" are extremely relevant as Darryl Hannah, according to People Mag, "fled" to JFK Jr's protection immediately after the incident. In my memory of the relationship between Joni and Jackson is that shortly after their break-up, Jackson met Phyllis Major, she got pregnant and they got marriedIn FTR, Joni has two songs which may or may not allude to Jackson, but which do show some of the things that Joni felt about man/woman relationshipd. Lesson in Survival-"your friends protect you, scrutinize me" which is echoed in Not TO Blame, in her allusion to "his friends". In Woman of Heart and Mind, "I am a woman of heart and mind with time on her hands, NO CHILD TO RAISE". I think that most women in the early 70's were dealing with the sexual revolution and the "new freedom" in a variety of ways. I know that I was split between "serial monogamy" without a ceremony and wanting, on another level, to have the wedding, children and the house. The new freedom of the pill and abortion allowed sex without a long term commitment, and that was confusing for this first generation of woman. You liked the freedom but were afraid that after the freedom, you might still be left alone. I think that Joni's personal history of giving up her daughter for adoption would only exacerbate thses ambivalent feelings. And to see a former "boyfriend" settling down so soon after your break-up, would be galling. The LA music scene was terribly incestuous at this time. And after a relationship ended, you saw each other frequently in public and at private parites. One last point, Joni has made less than kind statements about other performers; and David Geffen. Jackson is still close to David Crosby, who Joni has been less than kind to in the press( and was nowhere to be found after David's liver transplant). Jackson still thanks Geffen for his support. These Joni statemnts are most probably part off the reason Jackson has called her bitter and talks about her "deep fallings-out with many people in her life" and "there's quite a few people that she's no longer on speaking terms with" One last point, in regard to Hell's statment that Jackson himself started the talk that Not to Blame was about him. That is definitely untrue. People (that magazine again) ran an atricle before TI was released about the song, USA today followed up on the story, and the whole Darryl incident (which had not really died down) gained new life in the transient media. Jackson refrained from comment for almost 3 years, until directly asked about the song by the Dallas Morning News. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:13:21 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: original Joni photo/1968 Hi, I have a beautiful 8x10 color photo my buddy took of Joni in 1968. Maybe it should be on her website somewhere. I don't want to give it up permanently but I could loan it for publication on someone's site. Ideas? It's really a beautiful photo. Long green velvet dress, Martin in hand and big singing smile under amber stage lights. You gotta see it! Peg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 14:33:37 -0700 From: DARICEM@sfpl.lib.ca.us Subject: Not to Blame part 2 The line in NTB "bet their fortunes and their fame" directly echoes a quote from Don Henley in People about Jackson "I would bet everything I won that Jackson did not batter Daryl". Sorry to be so long winded. Darice ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 19:35:17 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: songs for and about joni i am interested! never heard that song before! geesh! the things you learn on this list!!! so let's here 'em. lay it on us bub... ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:09 -0400 From: Rose Marie Joy Subject: Article from the globeandmail.com Web Centre - --====963014995==== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This e-mail has been sent to you by Rose Marie Joy (rosemjoy@aol.com) from = the globeandmail.com Web Centre. Message: I found this article in the Globe&Mail dated 7/5. Hurry as it will= be gone after 7 days. The Globe and Mail, Wednesday, July 5, 2000 Portrait of a singer's inner soul Like her songs, Joni Mitchell's paintings depict the links between life a= nd art. By Robert Enright Saskatoon -- In her liner notes for Mingus,the collaborative album with the= great jazz composer, which she released in 1979, Joni Mitchell described h= er songs as "audio paintings." This commingling of sonic and visual picture= s has always been at the centre of Mitchell's sensibility. And it helps to = explain the range of the 87 works in various media that make up voices: The= work of Joni Mitchell, her 30-year retrospective curated by director Gille= s H=E9bert, which opened Friday at the Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon. Mitchell is among a handful of singer-songwriters -- the list includes Bob = Dylan, Van Morrison and Leonard Cohen -- who have irretrievably, and for th= e better, altered pop music in this century. Her richly textured and layere= d lyrics are autobiographical fragments of a life lived, if not in the fast= lane, at least in an intense one. "I want to get up and jive," she declare= s in All I Want from 1971's Blue."I want to wreck my stockings in some juke= box dive." The singer's visual art reflects the same relationship between life and art= that characterizes her lyrics, although sometimes in a more transparent wa= y. In her musical life, Mitchell has been obliged to pay at least cursory a= ttention to the requirements of the music industry, but in her painting lif= e she has followed only her own instincts. The result is a body of work tha= t is less homogenous than honorific; Mitchell has painted who and what she = likes with no concessions to either art fashion or market pressures. That said, she wears her tributary heart on her sleeve for critics to peck = at. Picasso and Matisse are at the top of the list. Visual echoes of David = Hockney and Larry Rivers also register in her work but they seem part of a = larger, unsystematic eclecticism that leads her to paint in a wide number o= f styles. There are structured abstractions, traditional prairie landscapes= , expressionist portraits, Pre-Raphaelite evocations, craggy realism and ev= en witty spoofs of Canadian wilderness painting. Clearly, Mitchell likes to sit on the questioning edge: Her self-portrait a= s van Gogh, sans ear, for example, is a darkly wry comment on her reception= in the music business. But in spite of all the visual quotation, Mitchell = remains curiously distant from the art world -- distant and solitary. What does emerge with the clarity of a meadowlark's song is the lasting eff= ect the prairies have played in shaping her art. Mitchell's early landscape= s, such as The Road to Uncle Lyle's, No. 1, were attempts to frame the vast= prairie space by structuring the landscape as a series of interlocking for= ms -- a highway sign, a section of field, a piece of land viewed through a = rear-view mirror. She was a kind of tectonic surveyor, or a landscape gambl= er shuffling the components of prairie space as if they belonged to a deck = of cards. To the extent that Mitchell's hand hadn't caught up to her mind, = they were better ideas than paintings. Recently, she has depicted the lands= cape in more conventional ways: In 40 Below 0,1995, the wintry sky has a lo= ok of impenetrable, almost nuclear cold; The Road to Waskesui, 1995, is a d= eftly realized minimal landscape showing Mitchell at her most subtle. The images that most effectively embody her sense of comfort with the prair= ie were actually the product of a happy accident. A series of 20 photograph= s began as unintended double exposures that were subsequently manipulated i= nto startling bodyscapes, in which the artist's flatland presence is captur= ed in a kind of eerie transcendence, her eyes peering out along the horizon= from a collapsed outbuilding, or her facial features a spooky blur of gras= sland -- The Blair Witch Project meets Little House on the Prairie. While Mitchell's most recent work is doggedly figurative and representation= al, she has made abstract paintings before that remain her most compelling.= These often sumptuous works include The Ice Offering, 1976; Round About Mi= dnight, 1991; and Black Orpheus, No. 2, 1985 -- all fine paintings, even as= they make evident the painters who inspired them. The Ice Offering looks l= ike Hans Hofmann, but the middle section, where the pigment vibrates and fa= ttens up, is Mitchell's own. Round About Midnight is a dark tribute to Mone= t. Black Orpheus uses every technique available to a contemporary painter -= - - its layered surface is scraped, dripped and otherwise made beautiful thro= ugh a rich agitation. The Stranger, 1991, is the best painting in the exhibition. It looks to be = an abstract variation on a Vuillard interior that opens onto a garden of ri= otous colour. The abstractions and the self-portraits, in which Mitchell st= rikes various poses, are the high points of the show -- evidence that the h= ands Mitchell deals best, in fact, regard herself and the process that tran= sforms the abstract contents of her mind into the elegant layers of her pai= nted imagination. It's impossible not to view this show through the kaleidoscopic prism of Mi= tchell's music and lyrics, and the Mendel wouldn't be looking at her work w= ere she a painter who came in off the street. But unlike other celebrities = who have picked up an art form (Bryan Adams, the photographer, comes immedi= ately to mind), Mitchell has been working at painting for more than four de= cades; she also studied at the Alberta College of Art. Still, despite that early training and her persistent avocation, Mitchell e= merges as a worldly version of a naive artist, indifferent to art trends an= d the positioning that has so much to do with contemporary art. At the pres= s conference in advance of the opening, she admitted that Le Douanier Rouss= eau was her favourite painter in her formative years. Like him, she address= es the world she lives in, and the places and figures who share it with her= , and then depicts them in a sort of painted romance. She also said that "y= ou have to decide if you want to be a star or if you want to be an artist."= In voices, her status as a star will initially attract people to the Mende= l. But her genuine aspiration to be an artist is what will keep them there = long after the novelty wears off of a pop icon who paints.=20 Robert Enright is the editor-at-large for Border Crossings magazine and= a cultural reporter with CBC's 24 Hours in Winnipeg. Voices: The Work of J= oni Mitchell runs at the Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon through Sept. 17. = Information: (306) 975-8053; voices@mendel.saskatoon.sk.ca Copyright 2000 | The Globe and Mail Visit the globeandmail.com Web Centre for your competitive edge. News: http://www.globeandmail.com Books: http://www.chaptersglobe.com Careers: http://www.globecareers.com Mutual Funds: http://www.globefund.com Stocks: http://www.globeinvestor.com ROB Magazine: http://www.robmagazine.com Technology: http://www.globetechnology.com ROBTv: http://www.robtv.com=20=20=20 Wheels: http://www.globemegawheels.com - ------------- Onvia.com. Work. Wisely. Onvia.com is the premier e-marketplace for small business and entrepreneurs= . Find the resources you need to build your business. Check it out. < http://www.onvia.com/canada > - ------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 20:15:11 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... well, thank you for all that info!!! i find the statment JFK made to the interviewer, whoever she was, rather compelling. if hannah did, in fact, "flee" to jfk, would he not have seen the alleged bruises, or at least SOME evidence of abuse, had one actually taken place? apparently he did not... it doesn't matter. we will never know. and it is, i suppose, (second only to why joni put her daughter up for adoption) the worst kind of gossip. what interested me, and what led me to start this volatile thread was the line that concerned itself with his exwife, and driving her to suicide. not so much whether or not he beat up darryl hannah. i find it hard to imagine, based on nothing other than his lyrics. he doesn't SEEM like the type, as he is revealed in his lyrics. (was anyone surprised to hear that dylan battered his wife sarah? or that john lennon had (and successfully faced up to and conquered) those kind of impulses? (yoko probably scared the shit out of him!)) but jackson browne? i just can't see it. and i was told i was an idiot and someone whose attitude makes abuse possible, and a number of other things by intelligent people whose passions i inadvertantly enflamed. but what REALLY intrigued me about that song was the side of JONI it revealed - not what it said about JB. and, in my humble opinion, it is not a very flattering side. i don't know why this should so threaten anyone...finding out our joni has an unflattering side. to me it makes her MORE interesting. not less. saints are boring. but i digress. thanks again for the research and for sharing. very interesting indeed. ric ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 00:13:58 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Diary Of A Decade Mark wonders: > I'm curious: is it just a image error or are the frames really in two > pieces? I wonder why she would want to do that (let alone put gold > leaf on perfectly good frames!) I'm so tempted to buy a Mendel book > after looking at these! No, Mark, it's just my crap photography! I was attempting to do a David Hockney on the paintings (you know, where he makes a whole picture by a composite of little pictures?), I thought I had to do that with the longer ones, but I didn't make it right.... that's what you get when you get art students going to exhibitions, they try to make art out of art.... Unless you're referring to the little 'additions' that Joni adds on to the frames... those acrylic 'pizzas' that she has nailed on to the frames... I can't answer for those but I have her on video explaining how she came about them. Much Joni Jamie Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 01:32:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Not to Blame-JFK JR response > > > > She has that effect at > times." > on. " > "Could she make you want to hit her? > Yes. I can't comment on whether or not Jackson hit Darryl or not, but I find the above quotes of JFK Jr to be rather disturbing. The person who is hit is not the person to blame. Someone else commented that Jackson would have ignored Joni's song if it were untrue. I don't agree. i think it would make someone much more angry and more likely to speak out against it. (I accept I may have misunderstood what the lister meant). Of course if it true, the angry defensive response is still what one would expect. So really jackson's response cannot really be used as a gauge in ascertaining the truth. It would seem we will never know. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:03:48 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... Hi Rickie Lee, you wrote: >i find the statment JFK made to the interviewer, whoever she >was, rather compelling. I found them disturbing and untypically ungallant of him. Why not just say "no comment" to the interviewer? This is someone with whom he shared a long and close relationship. I found his statements very disrespectful of Hannah. >if hannah did, in fact, "flee" to jfk, would he not have seen the >alleged bruises, or at least SOME evidence of abuse, had >one actually taken place? apparently he did not... How could he have not?? Photos of her injuries were all over the papers as she was "fleeing" to be with JFK, Jr. I recall seeing several shots at the time of a severely bruised and blackened face, and a bandaged hand in the photos. These were not "alleged" - they were real and obvious. And why is JFK, Jr. implying that she was lying? I thought she never said he battered her from the beginning? So what did she lie about? It was her friends and family who said he did it. Or maybe people think she lied to them. What really got me after reading JB's rant and rage at Joni in the press was that his reaction was SO vicious that it made me wonder for the first time about his temper and showed me he wasn't all sweetness and light himself. It was much more a nasty attack on her than a reasoned defense on his part. Whatever - I still love his music and hope one day we might know the truth. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 18:22:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Not to Blame, Jackson and Joni... Hi Darice, While I won't throw my towel in on the JB side, I do appreciate your information. > One last point, Joni has made less than kind statements >about other performers; and David Geffen. Jackson is still >close to David Crosby, who Joni has been less than kind to >in the press(and was nowhere to be found after David's liver >transplant). Jackson still thanks Geffen for his support. Joni is not the only one who has a great distaste for Geffen. Judging from the two biographies written about him in recent years, he seems to have made many enemies over time and I recall reading that Henley is even more of a nemesis to him than Joni. I have only read excerpts of the latest Geffen bio but a list friend who read it told me that the bio relates that back in around 1994, Geffen, knowing that he had lost just about every friend and business relationship he ever had, held a big dinner party at his house in an attempt to get forgiveness and make peace with all these people. The bio reports that Joni attended that dinner and for awhile afterward they were on good footing again. Then something happened and she fell out with him again. As for Crosby, I have read in a few places where Joni was performing somewhere while Croz was in the hospital and she asked the audience to take a moment and say a prayer for him. She also collaborated with him on Yvette in English around the time he was seriously ill. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 16:03:43 -1000 From: david Subject: CDR Trade? CDR Weed/Tree? Mingus Tour in S.F. Aloha - I'm a new visitor to this list, so first of all a newbie hello to all... and now on to the crux of the biscuit... ' I recently found a great copy of JM's Mingus tour performances in San Fran on Sept. 7&8, 1979 (cassette master -->DAT) which I have remastered as a 3 CD set. A-/B+ quality IMHO. Based on the length of time that it took me to find a this HQ '79 tour tape, and the # of tape trader lists that I have perused, these shows do not seem to be widely circulated, and they should be... I would be interested in trades for HQ Y2K shows, or low gen 79 shows- especially Tanglewood 8/21/79 where I had 4th row seats. DAT or CDR trades preferred, but those that are able to burn CDs or spin tapes for others on this list will get preferential treatment. Aloha- David ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #280 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?