From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #272 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, June 30 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 272 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Just like this train ? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Just like this train ? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Just like this train ? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Just like this train ? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) [Catherine McKay ] Re: Just like this train ? ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Just like this train ? ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: Just like this train ? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) [FMYFL@aol.com] We Met Joni!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) [Matthew Snyder ] Re: We Met Joni!!! [Catherine McKay ] PazFest ["Michael Paz" ] Re: We Met Joni!!! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Just like this train ? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians [Catherine McKay ] Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians [pat holden ] Re: We Met Joni!!! ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: (VLJC) Newbie on board! [Linda Worster ] BSN programs [AsharaJM@aol.com] COOL NEWS!!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Some surrealist invented this fourth of July [Louis Lynch ] So long for a bit ... [Don Rowe ] Re: We Met Joni!!! ["Lori R. Fye" ] Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) ["Kakki" ] Ashara! ["Kate Bennett" ] Mission Accomplished. [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 04:03:44 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? In a message dated 6/29/2000 10:30:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jamespatrick7556@hotmail.com writes: << Hey, I've got a ? for anyone that may know the answer. Who was Joni watching there hairline resede, my main darling, in Just like this train from Court and Spark? Thanks for any information, James >> I thought it might be James Taylor and boy did she call that one (if in fact it was about him). He,he,he! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 30 07:39:14 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? <> And it's funny, on one of the '79 concerts she sings "my vain baldy"...makes me crack up every time. I also cast a vote for JT being the recipient of this one. Bob NP: Elvis Costello, "New Lace Sleeves" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 08:35:11 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. Jerry np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:24:13 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Jerry Notaro wrote: > Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. > > Jerry > > np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always Before any of the Joni Police write to correct me, it was a joke. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:39:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) - --- AngelinoCoyote@aol.com wrote: > Saskatoon cub reporter Coyote Rick here with an > early report from the center > of the universe for all Joni Mitchell (the painter) > fans. > > The shopkeeper at the Mendel said [...] that Joni seemed relaxed, > although is self conscious about her art. She has > been in and out of the > gallery all week and loves walking along the river > in her big, floppy hat. Thanks, Rick, for your good news - you just head on out to the river and walk around and maybe you'll run into Joni herself accidentally on purpose. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:53:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Just like this train ? - --- Jerry Notaro wrote: > Jerry Notaro wrote: > > > Though I love the song, I've always thought > "Watching your hairline > > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower > lines. > > > > Jerry > > > > np: Fred Simon: Usually/Always > > Before any of the Joni Police write to correct me, > it was a joke. > What? Paranoid, are we? ;) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Just like this train ? James Phillips inquired: > I've got a ? for anyone that may know the answer. > Who was Joni watching there hairline resede, my main > darling, in Just like this train from Court and > Spark? My guess: James Taylor. Lori in DC, wishing everyone in Saskatoon a fine, fine time and crossing fingers for your meeting with Joni NPIMH: Just Like This Train (thanks, James!) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:16:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: Just like this train ? P.S. - James, I think it's "my vain darling." Lori __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:37:07 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Catherine McKay wrote: > > > What? Paranoid, are we? ;) No, just been around a loo-o-o-o-o-n-g time. Jerry 8-> ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:42:30 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) AngelinoCoyote@aol.com writes: << Although we strategically timed our visit to the Mendel to perhaps see Joni, no such luck. However, in a late breaking news item, it seems one of our traveling listmembers did have the honor at 3:15PM. I won't steal any thunder on that one. >> Oh I just heard the news over the phone, and I'm so happy for "her". I won't steal the thunder on that one either. I was also told by David that he was on the plane with Valentino (I think that's his name), who is the friend of Joni's that dances with her on the PWWAM. There is Joni-mania all over Saskatoon! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:59:28 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: We Met Joni!!! Arrived in Saskatoon yesterday afternoon. Our hotel, the Bessborough, is right on the river, with the Broadway Bridge out our window. A very picturesque city. Headed down to the Mendel to pick up some posters of the event, and met Penny as we were walking there. She relayed how she had met Joni earlier at the Mendel, and had given her a hug. Wow!! It seems surreal that we are actual here, in Joni's hometown. Continued on, and found the Mendel, which is a beautiful gallery. Everything was closed up except the gift shop and the lobby. The picture of the Wild Things Run Fast cover was in the lobby, so we had a chance to see that. It is GORGEOUS!!! And HUGE!!! 5' by 12' at least! So..on to the gift shop where I picked up many extra posters for the Jonifest giveaway, and other things. ;-) 3 others were in the gift shop at the time, and as I was ringing everything up, one of them said, "Are those ALL for you?" "No, I said. See, I belong to a Joni Mitchell discussion list...." and immediately the other 2 yelled, "ASHARA????? Is that really THE Ashara?" LOL!! Giggling, I found out that it was Rick from Vancouver and John from Chicago. Finishing up and on our way out, talking a mile a minute, all of a sudden we saw Joni, also on her way out. We had a brief encounter, and she was very, very gracious. Luckily, John's partner, Richard, had a camera with him, and all of us got a picture with Joni. We didn't have much time with her, truly I only had enough time to introduce myself and say that I had traveled all the way from Boston for this, but it was very special to see the Lady in person. Today we are all meeting for lunch, and then on to the Mendel for the opening. More to follow soon! Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:16:34 -0400 From: Matthew Snyder Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) Ric - Your take on this tune is too simplistic. You are assuming that everybody reads the tabloids and knows everything that is written about what Jackson Browne may or may not have done. Well, I didn't and don't, and I loved this song without having known anything about this background you talk about, which, so far as I can see, you are projecting on it. She never mentions Jackson Browne in the song and until I heard others talking about it Browne never crossed my mind. But I don't have to defend Joni here, she did it far better herself in a 1994 radio interview, when she was asked about this: "That's ridiculous, this is so much of a bigger issue. For instance, 'six hundred thousand doctors are putting on rubber gloves and they're poking at the miseries made of love.' There was an ad that came in Newsweek, the AMA [American Medical Association] took a two-page ad. Now what does the AMA take a two-page ad for? They take it obviously to solicit business. This ad was very strange. One page there was a photograph of a doctor with a stethescope outside of an operating room with his head hung in sorrow, a very sorrowful posture. On the other side the copy said, it named a doctor that they kind insinuated was some kind of a genius, and his genius lay in the fact that so many battered women were appearing in emergency rooms, and they tended to cover it, they'd say 'oh, I fell down the stairs' you know, and he had some ingenius technique of deciphering whether they'd been battered or not, and he was teaching the medical corps this technique, and it just struck me as really strange because every woman I know is fed up with the AMA in particular. I have night blindness, just to give you an example, and if I say to a doctor I have night blindness they say 'oh, women don't get that.' I say, well, men make the statistics. My mother is color blind, and they say women aren't color blind either, well, she is. So women must be abandoning this system of medicine for alternative systems of medicine in droves. In other words, in order for them to make an ad like this appealing to women's sympathies, 'look how we are on your side, especially on this issue.' "In Canada there came to me a statistic in the newspaper. 50% of Canadian women admit now to being battered, women polled, I don't how they arranged the poll. 59% in the province of B.C., I live in B.C. There's a lot of unemployment there and a lot of alcoholism. So I made my own poll, and of 10 women polled around where I live, 9 of them were battered. I've never been a feminist, you know, I've hung with the boys all my life, I've been on the road with men and I like their company, I'm kind of an honorary male at this point. But I wonder what is happening in the heterosexual relationship at this time." The moral of the story: be very careful when trying to describe the motives of an artist, particularly Joni Mitchell. Matt Snyder msnyder@dragonfire.net http://msnyder.dragonfire.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:00:50 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: [Fwd: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC)] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -- forgot to forward this to the list. and yes i forgot to cut the bottom content out, sorry for those on digest... this is important to me. - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <395CCF76.B0D0BC7D@iprimus.ca> Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:48:54 -0500 From: pat holden X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) References: <7c.788c5a3.268d6e84@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit you wrote: does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she left by the side of the road? and my gut response is: Ric, In my humble opinion, I dont find Joni's words mean at all, I would dare to venture a guess that shes telling it like it is for a lot of women with fist marks on their faces, hearts, souls. And it is my hope on this glorious morning that you dont really believe that she left Kilauren on the side of the road for her career. Relinquishing a baby for adoption is like being given a permanent visiting pass to hell and then some. Mags. RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: > is that a valid designation up there listers? "sjc"? as in SOME joni > content? i don't want to get those impatient reminders from anyone about > the NJC. > > hey folks. my boss is in st. croix, ostensibly on business, (i get to go to > the trailerpark capitals of america, he goes to st. croix. hmmmm) so what > better time than to sit and think about joni's song from TI, "Not to Blame"? > you know this one - the one about (whispering) jackson browne! and yes, i > know, joni said it was just a composite and not meant to be "about" anyone > in particular...which, in my heretical opinion, undoes the expression that > "joni mitchell never lies..." this song is too about jackson browne, and if > she is going to assassinate him, she ought to admit to it. i assume her > denial is, somewhat understandably, based on a desire not to be sued for > slander, or libel - whichever term would apply. but clearly, the song is > about jackson > browne, and what i find so stunning about it is how cruel it is. how > supremely cruel. i cannot think of another song in all her body of work > that is like it. this is joni mitchell! thinking of her as intentionally > cruel is as difficult for me as it is to think of jackson browne as an abuser > of women. > > forget the public face he displays and all the "chariable acts", which are > many, and impressive. it is the lyrical content of his songs, and the sense > of him that is dervived from that body of work - work that is often every > bit as revealing and confessional as joni's - that makes it so hard to > perceive him as a man plagued with those kind of impulses. i just can't see > it. so joni's portrait of him doesn't add up. take a look at it with me. > > first of all, browne denies that he ever struck her. he says that had he > been accused by hannah to the LA cops of beating her, they > would not have left without arresting him. now we know that the LAPD are > celebrity struck. but why would they be any less impressed with hannah's > celebrity than browne's? secondly, hannah has never said, to my knowledge > anyway, that browne hit her. the damning part, of course, is that she has > not said he did NOT, but still, she has never said to anyone that browne > struck her. the tabloids did. the tabloids, and join mitchell. > > "the beauty, with your fist marks on her face." pretty damning. did it > provoke some moral outrage in joni that justified, in her heart and mind, > that 3rd verse? the one that goes off the charts for cruelty? > > now as most everyone knows, browne's first wife committed suicide, leaving him > with a young son to raise alone. a baby really. so consider what the > impact these lines must have on browne, hearing them sung by someone he was > once close to...thinking people hearing them now might believe them, or that > his son, the one whose mother this is about, might hear them sung: "his > mother had the frailty you despise, and the looks you love to drive to > suicide." wow. anyone who has EVER lost someone they loved to suicide, > knows that the guilt you feel as a survivor, justified or not, is enormous, > even overwhelming, and sometimes, > life changing. to have someone say that not only did you drive them to it, > but you enjoyed it, pretty much takes one's breath away. it is nothing short > of savage. does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if > every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and > towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way > i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some > hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she > left by the side of the road? > > the tone of this song is off. it doesn't seem like joni to me. and it sure > doesn't seem like jackson browne. > > interested in anyone else's thoughts. > > peace all, ric - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- - --------------C86FF25E14CD458FAA11ACB8-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:57:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! - --- AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > Finishing up and on our way out, talking a mile a > minute, all of a sudden we > saw Joni, also on her way out. We had a brief > encounter, and she was very, > very gracious. Luckily, John's partner, Richard, had > a camera with him, and > all of us got a picture with Joni. We didn't have > much time with her, truly I > only had enough time to introduce myself and say > that I had traveled all the > way from Boston for this, but it was very special to > see the Lady in person. Get outta town! This is great! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:47:24 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: PazFest Steve wrote: ") You almost gave me a friggin' heart attack when I thought I read : PAZ FEST TO BE BROADCAST OVER THE INTERNET.... Don't ever do that again!!! (unless if course it's really happening...) Obviously too tired this morning to read," Steve This is STILL a very good possibility that an edited version could make it online. WWOZ is one of my sponsors and will help me promote the record when it comes out. One of the ideas is to do a release party with some live joni stuff and show some of that show as well. For everyone who has been hinting, asking, pleading, threatening, me about tapes, everything will have to be remixed for release. I will start editing Sunday night. This will be a long process to do this right so PLEASE be patient, it will be worth the wait. I will be talking to Joni Mgmt next week after the get the Mendel under their belts. Speaking of which, BEST WISHES TO ALL THE MENDEL BUNCH!!! Later, Paz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:14:30 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! << We didn't have much time with her, truly I only had enough time to introduce myself and say that I had traveled all the way from Boston for this, but it was very special to see the Lady in person. >> WHOO-HOO! Yet another JMDL'er with 0 degrees of separation! (And it couldn't have happened to a nicer one). Hope it's the first of many Joni encounters to come! PS: Happy B-day to you Jimmy you ice-skating rascal! :-) Bob NP: "Heard it Through the Grapevine" Joni Detroit '83 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:18:25 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) In a message dated 6/30/00 11:23:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, msnyder@dragonfire.net writes: << The moral of the story: be very careful when trying to describe the motives of an artist, particularly Joni Mitchell. >> matt, i'm just not able to dismiss the song's closeness to the jackson brown story. i think it is exactly about jackson brown and i think she lied about it. but i also think she lied about a boom boom pachyderm being a drum solo. even jackson brown thinks the song is about him! pat np. the reoccurring dream ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:24:11 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Just like this train ? In a message dated 6/30/2000 8:39:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: << Though I love the song, I've always thought "Watching your hairline recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower lines. Jerry >> Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. What a great one liner if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about their hair so when a woman says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything like that trust me!! ;) ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians Happy Canada Day to all Canadians and Happy 4th of July to those in the US. I am SO looking forward to a loooooooong weekend and hope the weather will stay sunny as it is today - I don't know about the rest of the world, or even the rest of the continent, but so far this spring and summer, we've had so much rain, it's unbelievable! At least it will save on watering the garden. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:09:06 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Just like this train ? Ms. Cat wrote: > Jerry > >> > Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. What a great one liner > if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about their hair so when a woman > says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! > Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything like that trust me!! ;) > ) and ms. mags says yeppers, I'd agree to this read. :) - -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:12:02 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: Re: Happy holiday, Americans and Canadians Catherine McKay wrote: > Happy Canada Day to all Canadians and Happy 4th of > July to those in the US. > > I am SO looking forward to a loooooooong weekend and > hope the weather will stay sunny as it is today - I > don't know about the rest of the world, or even the > rest of the continent, but so far this spring and > summer, we've had so much rain, it's unbelievable! At > least it will save on watering the garden. and mags kind of out of breath writes: all the rain makes for cleaner air and for the gardens and grass to just BURST..its gorgeous out there, just got back from a run....woohooo yea endorphin rush err I mean gee i like running. *snicker* hehe mags........................ <-------leaving a trail of magic dust behind ;) > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:31:45 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) i am with mags on this one. one thing that irritates me about some comments on this list is how often people presume to "know" what a song was about, who Joni Mitchell is as person, what she went through when she gave up a child, what she thinks about certain political topics... it is really quite arrogant. as much as we all want to, none of us will ever know what she was really thinking when she wrote that song or any other. it's part of the mystery. it's part of the personal interpretation. if she wants to say it's not about browne, then it's not about browne. except in your head, and that is certainly your prerogative. saying that joni mitchell is cruel for writing a song about a situation that she appears to be disgusted by (and rightfully so), is ludicrous. "well, jackson denied ever hitting hannah, and he does charity work and writes sensitive songs, so it can't be true." this is the kind of thinking that has facilitated and encouraged and enabled hundreds of thousands of men to continue the brutality that is not just physical--but far more psychological and emotional. it is an outrage that anyone in this day and age would use this kind of logic to justify the brutality. it obviously upsets me. if you think joni is cruel, pal, spend a day at the YWCA with the dozens of women and children who were brave enough to leave these types of situations. then you will understand what cruelty is. my radical feminist 2¢, alison e. in slc np: tracy chapman, "nothing yet" - ---------- >From: RickieLee1@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Not to Blame, too long and (SJC) >Date: Thu, Jun 29, 2000, 9:31 PM > >is that a valid designation up there listers? "sjc"? as in SOME joni >content? i don't want to get those impatient reminders from anyone about >the NJC. > >hey folks. my boss is in st. croix, ostensibly on business, (i get to go to >the trailerpark capitals of america, he goes to st. croix. hmmmm) so what >better time than to sit and think about joni's song from TI, "Not to Blame"? >you know this one - the one about (whispering) jackson browne! and yes, i >know, joni said it was just a composite and not meant to be "about" anyone >in particular...which, in my heretical opinion, undoes the expression that >"joni mitchell never lies..." this song is too about jackson browne, and if >she is going to assassinate him, she ought to admit to it. i assume her >denial is, somewhat understandably, based on a desire not to be sued for >slander, or libel - whichever term would apply. but clearly, the song is >about jackson >browne, and what i find so stunning about it is how cruel it is. how >supremely cruel. i cannot think of another song in all her body of work >that is like it. this is joni mitchell! thinking of her as intentionally >cruel is as difficult for me as it is to think of jackson browne as an abuser >of women. > >forget the public face he displays and all the "chariable acts", which are >many, and impressive. it is the lyrical content of his songs, and the sense >of him that is dervived from that body of work - work that is often every >bit as revealing and confessional as joni's - that makes it so hard to >perceive him as a man plagued with those kind of impulses. i just can't see >it. so joni's portrait of him doesn't add up. take a look at it with me. > >first of all, browne denies that he ever struck her. he says that had he >been accused by hannah to the LA cops of beating her, they >would not have left without arresting him. now we know that the LAPD are >celebrity struck. but why would they be any less impressed with hannah's >celebrity than browne's? secondly, hannah has never said, to my knowledge >anyway, that browne hit her. the damning part, of course, is that she has >not said he did NOT, but still, she has never said to anyone that browne >struck her. the tabloids did. the tabloids, and join mitchell. > >"the beauty, with your fist marks on her face." pretty damning. did it >provoke some moral outrage in joni that justified, in her heart and mind, >that 3rd verse? the one that goes off the charts for cruelty? > >now as most everyone knows, browne's first wife committed suicide, leaving him >with a young son to raise alone. a baby really. so consider what the >impact these lines must have on browne, hearing them sung by someone he was >once close to...thinking people hearing them now might believe them, or that >his son, the one whose mother this is about, might hear them sung: "his >mother had the frailty you despise, and the looks you love to drive to >suicide." wow. anyone who has EVER lost someone they loved to suicide, >knows that the guilt you feel as a survivor, justified or not, is enormous, >even overwhelming, and sometimes, >life changing. to have someone say that not only did you drive them to it, >but you enjoyed it, pretty much takes one's breath away. it is nothing short >of savage. does she have a mean streak a mile wide, this woman? even if >every word of it was true, to say it now, decades later, publically and >towards no end, makes me just shake my head in amazement...quite the same way >i would if jackson browne were to write a song, 30 years later, about some >hippie chick who cared more for her career than she did for the daughter she >left by the side of the road? > >the tone of this song is off. it doesn't seem like joni to me. and it sure >doesn't seem like jackson browne. > >interested in anyone else's thoughts. > >peace all, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:22:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Just like this train ? - --- CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/30/2000 8:39:39 AM Eastern > Daylight Time, > notaro@bayflash.stpt.usf.edu writes: > > << Though I love the song, I've always thought > "Watching your hairline > recede my vain Darwin" to be one of her shallower > lines. > > Jerry > >> > Well guess what? I think she is pissed at this guy. > What a great one liner > if you ask me. Most men are very sensitive about > their hair so when a woman > says something like that...trust me she is PISSED!!! > Catgirl (not me mind you I would never sya anything > like that trust me!! ;) > ) C'mon, pissed? She's just teasing him. I think she means it in a very loving way, like someone who intends to be around for the duration and she's going to love him with or without hair! If she had said, "Watching your waistline expand, my fat-assed darling", that might be another story! Hee-hee. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:35:09 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! i am so happy for you guys! and insanely jealous of course! i hope you are having a fabulous time, and i look forward to all the pics. take care, alison e. in slc. - ---------- >From: AsharaJM@aol.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: We Met Joni!!! >Date: Fri, Jun 30, 2000, 8:59 AM > >Arrived in Saskatoon yesterday afternoon. Our hotel, the Bessborough, is >Today we are all meeting for lunch, and then on to the Mendel for the >opening. More to follow soon! > >Hugs, >Ashara > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:29:42 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: (VLJC) Newbie on board! I do so agree with Bob here: >As far as my personal faves, I think the Hissing - Hejira - Don Juan combo is the best threepeat in recording history! > I've been listening to Don Juan's Reckless Daughter a lot lately and am AGAIN staggered by it. Hejira is still number one for me, but DJRD is moving in. Hissing is another favorite. AND now... I have to add Mingus.... which I really just "got" last winter with a little help from the JMDL. Shadows and Light kinda ties all that together beautifully, IMO Linda np. the droning of summer lawnmowers. Time to tune out that HUM and put on some Joni! Wishing all the folks in Saskatoon a magical day!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:32:03 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: BSN programs In my crazy hustling around in the past month, I forgot to mention to the list that I have TONS of BSN programs that I picked up in Boston for any listers that did not have a chance to get one either at a concert or from another lister. Brian Gross had a great idea, of how to send a blank envelope with postage that was real easy, so Brian, if you are reading this, maybe you can send that information along with my address: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 If you don't have a program, and would like one, PLEASE send for one. I picked them up for all of YOU, and would like to get them out to everyone that wants one. Your roving hugging reporter, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:32:02 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: COOL NEWS!!!!! Before I left Boston, I received an e-mail saying that the Canadian Broadcast Company, (CBC) wanted to interview people that had come from a long distance for this opening. They asked if I would be willing to go on "live" (YIKES!!) radio, and give my thoughts about the exhibit. Of course I said yes, and I was contacted yesterday when I got to Saskatoon. The really cool news is that the program will be aired live on the internet on Monday morning, starting at 7:15 AM Saskatoon time, (which I believe is the same as Central time in the US, but you'd better check to be sure) so, any of you that would like to hear it, can just tune in via the internet!! I just think that is SO cool!! At 7:15 AM, their Arts reporter will talk about his views of the exhibit, and at 8:40 AM, I will be interviewed along with Rick Hobbs (Angelino Coyote) and I think some others. Of course, if anyone has a chance to tape it, that would be awesome! Reporting live from Saskatoon with hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:47:32 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Some surrealist invented this fourth of July Hi all, Before I leave for a long overdue four day break, I thought I'd pose a topic for discussion. Ever since Tuesday, I've been walking around singing "Night Ride Home." You know, the lines that end with the fourth of July. It occurred to me that it happens every year at this time -- the same song. And "River" at Christmas, and other songs at certain times of the year or on specific dates. I always sing "Twisted" on my ex-girlfriend's birthday, too, but that's more an issue for modern psychology than for this list. I named my daughter Savannah, with a more than indirect inspiration from "Blue Motel Room," and sometimes that line with her name in it pops into mind when I think of her in a certain way. Does anyone else do this, or is it because I'm certifiably insane? I sing to myself nonstop, as a rule, but some songs follow a distinct pattern. So here's a new thread topic... Any special Joni songs that you catch yourself singing when you do an activity, celebrate a date, see a certain person, etc? Harpy Independence Day to everyone (Brits may decline if you so choose)! Harper Lou Postscript question -- I'm on a bit of a vacation, with very few gigs in July. The burnout caught up with me, so I decided that maybe I should take a day off every six years or so. A Tarot reader friend told me that I need to start asserting more of what I really want out of life, instead of trying to please others and committing to every request made of me. She's right. So, I need to know if Joni is officially divorced from Larry Klein. If so, I ASSERT that I would like to run off and marry her and live happily ever after. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. If anyone is in touch with Joni Mitchell directly, please mention that I have a new Astro van and I'm a "pretty good cook." Thanks! HL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:48:48 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Joni And Jackson Hello All! I'm not one to promote rumours or encourage them, but I have a story to share. In 1976 I became friends with a woman who was a very devoted Joni fan. We talked and shared (and sang) all things Joni. One day, during one of our usual stimulating conversations, she asked me if I had ever heard about a fist-fight that she and Jackson had on their tour together. I didn't believe it, but she went on swearing she had read it somewhere- and that it happened on-stage (not during the performance) and this was reportedly 'reported' by a stage hand. What really bothered me about this whole incident of her asking this, was that the woman worked for the city paper, and always had tidbits of news -(and promo stuff; we got Joni pics and books)- that never made it to print. So for years, I have been wondering if this is true and what the REAL story is-(maybe JM punched him in the arm jokingly, and now we have a fist-fight! LOL) So it goes... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: So long for a bit ... See you good folks the week of July 10. I'm on vacation away from the pc til then. Don't you dare get Joni herself hooked up from Saskatoon, or anywhere else via laptop in m absence! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:36:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: We Met Joni!!! Ashara wrote: > We didn't have much time with her, truly I only had > enough time to introduce myself and say that I had > traveled all the way from Boston for this, but it > was very special to see the Lady in person. I'll say!!! How very, very wonderful!!! I'm so happy for you all! Have a GREAT time! Hugs back at y'all, Lori in DC __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:35:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: GREETINGS FROM SASKATOON! (Very Long) Happy Birthday dear Jimmy!! You wrote: >I was also told by David that he was on the plane with >Valentino (I think that's his name), who is the friend of Joni's >that dances with her on the PWWAM. Wow, yes, that is Charles Valentino, known as "Val". He not only dances, he has sung on a few of her albums, too - WTRF and TI, as I recall. How cool! >There is Joni-mania all over Saskatoon! I talked to Coyote Rick on the phone this morning and got a complete contact high!!! Kakki, still buzzed ;-) NP: Kate Bennett - Full Moon Ride ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:05:43 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: COOL NEWS!!!!! YIKES! This is exciting! Does anyone know how to tune in??? Please help this non-technophile! AsharaJM@aol.com wrote: > The really cool news is that the program will be aired live on the internet on > Monday morning, starting at > 7:15 AM Saskatoon time, - -- Phyliss mailto:pward@datacourse.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:33:55 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Ashara! Woooo Hoooo Ashara! Wow, how totally cool & right that it would be you that would run into Joni!! And you're going to be a radio star! What is the name of the program you will be on, I want to try & listen in on the internet. And what a weird & wacky small world this is- this is the very same station, Saskatchewan CBC Radio, that has been playing my CD!!!!(thanks to Brent Nielsen on the Noon & Afternoon Editions). All you jmdlers, here is the url for the station- http://cbc.ca/ And there is a story up on the exhibit & a link to jonimitchell.com at the end!!!! Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com Ashara writes: "The really cool news is that the program will be aired live on the internet on Monday morning, starting at 7:15 AM Saskatoon time, (which I believe is the same as Central time in the US, but you'd better check to be sure) so, any of you that would like to hear it, can just tune in via the internet!! I just think that is SO cool!! At 7:15 AM, their Arts reporter will talk about his views of the exhibit, and at 8:40 AM, I will be interviewed along with Rick Hobbs (Angelino Coyote) and I think some others. Of course, if anyone has a chance to tape it, that would be awesome! Reporting live from Saskatoon with hugs, Ashara - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:47:32 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Some surrealist invented this fourth of July Hi all, Before I leave for a long overdue four day break, I thought I'd pose a topic for discussion. Ever since Tuesday, I've been walking around singing "Night Ride Home." You know, the lines that end with the fourth of July. It occurred to me that it happens every year at this time -- the same song. And "River" at Christmas, and other songs at certain times of the year or on specific dates. I always sing "Twisted" on my ex-girlfriend's birthday, too, but that's more an issue for modern psychology than for this list. I named my daughter Savannah, with a more than indirect inspiration from "Blue Motel Room," and sometimes that line with her name in it pops into mind when I think of her in a certain way. Does anyone else do this, or is it because I'm certifiably insane? I sing to myself nonstop, as a rule, but some songs follow a distinct pattern. So here's a new thread topic... Any special Joni songs that you catch yourself singing when you do an activity, celebrate a date, see a certain person, etc? Harpy Independence Day to everyone (Brits may decline if you so choose)! Harper Lou Postscript question -- I'm on a bit of a vacation, with very few gigs in July. The burnout caught up with me, so I decided that maybe I should take a day off every six years or so. A Tarot reader friend told me that I need to start asserting more of what I really want out of life, instead of trying to please others and committing to every request made of me. She's right. So, I need to know if Joni is officially divorced from Larry Klein. If so, I ASSERT that I would like to run off and marry her and live happily ever after. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated. If anyone is in touch with Joni Mitchell directly, please mention that I have a new Astro van and I'm a "pretty good cook." Thanks! HL - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:48:48 -0500 From: "Steve Polifka" Subject: Joni And Jackson Hello All! I'm not one to promote rumours or encourage them, but I have a story to share. In 1976 I became friends with a woman who was a very devoted Joni fan. We talked and shared (and sang) all things Joni. One day, during one of our usual stimulating conversations, she asked me if I had ever heard about a fist-fight that she and Jackson had on their tour together. I didn't believe it, but she went on swearing she had read it somewhere- and that it happened on-stage (not during the performance) and this was reportedly 'reported' by a stage hand. What really bothered me about this whole incident of her asking this, was that the woman worked for the city paper, and always had tidbits of news -(and promo stuff; we got Joni pics and books)- that never made it to print. So for years, I have been wondering if this is true and what the REAL story is-(maybe JM punched him in the arm jokingly, and now we have a fist-fight! LOL) So it goes... - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:55:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: So long for a bit ... See you good folks the week of July 10. I'm on vacation away from the pc til then. Don't you dare get Joni herself hooked up from Saskatoon, or anywhere else via laptop in m absence! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ - ------------------------------ End of JMDL Digest V2000 #363 ***************************** - ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe joni-digest" to - ------- Siquomb, isn't she? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:20:34 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Mission Accomplished. Hi Joni buddies! John Calimee here. With the gracious help of Coyote and his lap top, I am able to send you this Mendel update from the Quality Inn here in grand Saskatoon! Thanks, Coyote. So, on the short, here's what's up so far. Stopped by the Mendel first when I got into town. It's a beautiful gallery with a glass and steel two story Conservatory connected to the gallery. The exhibition space was closed, but one could still wander the lobby, gift and coffee shops. In this foyer is hanging the WTRF painting. Very nice painting. It's huge. At least six feet across. It's made of two panels. The colors are matte. The place was obviously buzzing, but no one from the list was around and we felt in the way. So Rich and I decided to take a walk along the river. The paths are lush and overgrown. The Donald and Joan paintings were evidently taken from these spots. On the way, we passed two women from Ohio who noticed my Joni shirt and stopped to say hi. It turns out they had just bumped into Joni by accident at the Bessbourough. So the two of us buzzed over to the hotel. We waited there for a few hours, then decided to walk the town. Well, we end up in a diner having fish and chips and this kid, college age 'frat' boy type starts chatting us up. He too noticed the shirt. It turns out he is the staff photographer for the Star Register and had just come from the Mendel taking photos of Joni during the time we were in the hotel. Argggghhhh!!!! He suggested we head back to the Mendel. So, zoom. We are off to the Mendel again. Again no one in sight so I wander about trying to be inconspicuous amid all the bustle going on. After an hour or so the gallery guards and shop staff are becoming friendly and enjoying my buzz about the whole thing. They begin to whisper that Joni is indeed in the building overseeing final details, and if I were patient she would pop out for a smoke. Well, I had worked feverishly for week painting and writing this huge letter to give to her as a gift. And stupid me did not bring it with. So I send Rich back to the motel to pick up the 'letter' while I wait by the door. So, I am breathlessly waiting, hoping he will get back. And sure enough, no sonner than he is out the door, one of the gallery people begins nodding to me to come back into the gift shop. They drag me into the shop and there she is with her back turned to me, checking out the display set up for her. Mike turns her around and says, "Joan. There is someone her I'd like you to meet. He's come all the way from Chicago and he's a big fan of yours." Joni this is John. John, Joni. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OH, MY GOD! SHE IS SOOOOOO BEAUTIFUL!!! VERRRY GRACIOUS AND WARM. I began warbling about my letter fiasco and how much I wanted to have this gift to give her. She saw my nervous frustration and ended it by giving me a very sweet hug. (!!!!!) So, Joni heads back into the gallery and Rich returns with my letter. I pull Mike aside and he kindly offers to take the letter in to hand to her. He was going to take me in and allow me to do it, but some woman intercepts us, very perfunctorly says NO ONE can go in. She takes the letter and says she will deliver it. I return to vulture mode and wander the gallery. I connect with Rick from Vancouver and then, Ashara. Well we spend a long time engaging in hellos and info on the show. At one moment, Rich says to me, "There she is again." And there is Joni heading out the front door carrying my letter. (!!!). Well, we run outside and intercept her. We say hello and get our photos taken with her. That was thursday. Yesterday. Tonight is the opening. I will tell more, and in more detail as time goes on. But this has begun in a more awesome way than I ever imagined. --I will turn the batton over to Coyote now. Best to everyone. Wish you were all here. More info to come!!! John Calimee. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #272 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?