From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #263 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, June 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 263 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: what's the most happiest joni song? ["Phil Klein" ] Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! (SJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] additional joni sightings [PFallo@aol.com] Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! (SJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! [Louis Lynch ] Re: positive comments - ps... ["Joni Fan" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [B Merrill ] Re: Beat of Black Wings ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Beat of Black Wings [Don Rowe ] Re: Beat of Black Wings ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: positive comments - ps... ["Joni Fan" ] happy songs and Canadian accents [Bounced Message ] fucking music playing for the beat of blackwings ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: positive comments - ps... ["Joni Fan" ] Attention Bostonians!!!!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Unheard Joni Albums ["Joni Fan" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: Possible Reason catman Is On Hiatus and more (LONG) [Ginamu@aol.com] RE: Beat of Black Wings ["Wally Kairuz" ] Marcy's Getting Married !!! [WirlyPearl@aol.com] RE: what's the most happiest joni song? [Sally Pont ] RE: what's the most happiest joni song? [Don Rowe ] Re: Unheard Joni Albums [B Merrill ] Re: MORE JACO & WAYNE [B Merrill ] Re: Unheard Joni Albums ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Unheard Joni Albums ["Joni Fan" ] shocking lyrics [Walter R Rodgers III ] Re: Unheard Joni Albums [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] happy Joni songs ["James Phillips" ] JONI AND PAT [dave fairall / beth miller ] Re: Beat of Black Wings ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: happy Joni songs [Murphycopy@aol.com] RE: Beat of Black Wings ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: happy Joni songs [CaTGirl627@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:32:40 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Re: what's the most happiest joni song? Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:02:04 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: what's the most happiest joni song? >Ada Wittenberger asks: > >"what's the most happiest joni song??????????? >Morning Morgantown has to be up there among the happiest. At >least it's >a >song that put me in a very good mood with Sunday brunch and >made me want >to >wink at total strangers passing. >Cassy I agree that it sounds like a happy song, but its a bitter/sweet song tinged with sadness when you realise its addressed to her (at that time) 3 or 4 year old daughter, given up for adoption some years before. This has been discussed before on the list - it makes sense when you read these lyrics: "We'll find a table in the shade And sip our tea and lemonade..." i.e. Joni has tea, the little girl lemonade. "I'd like to buy you everything A wooden bird with painted wings A window full of colored rings In morning, Morgantown. But the only thing I have to give To make you smile, to win you with Are all the mornings still to live In morning, Morgantown" i.e. she doesn't have the present, only possibly the future, which, happily, eventually proved to be correct! Hope I haven't ruined the song for anyone! Incidentally, I think This and Little Green are in the same tuning, which also fits with the lost daughter theme. At least I play them in the same tuning, basically drop 5th and 1st string by a tone. My own vote for happiest song is "Chelsea Morning", FWIW. Phil - delurking - first post for about a year. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 01:42:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Walecki interview/More benefit info John, That is very nice of you to suggest one of the local SoCal'ers interview Freddie and possibly Joni if Les can't do it. I hope Les can do it. He did such a great job with his interview lunch with Joni a few years ago. But if he can't I really think you should try to get out here to do the interview. You've done so well establishing a friendship with him and you all seem to be very comfortable with each other. Plus, you are a great story-relater! I'm sad to hear about his condition. One of these days I'm going to bop into Westwood Music and maybe say hello to him. A number of us are now planning to go to his benefit here in August. Another night has been added, so it will be August 8th and 9th. Some of us already had tix to Sting on the 8th and so will be going on the 9th. Leslie Mixon and maybe some others will be there on the 8th. So anyone out there who is thinking about going, please let us know so we can meet up. Coyote Rick and I are springing for the "Silver Circle" seats (we got 3rd row - whoo hoo!). The "Golden and Silver" tickets are only available through the Guacamole Fund - call 1-(800) 728-6223. The regular tickets go on sale this Saturday through Ticketmaster and all seats are $48.00 each. I can't wait - it should be an amazing event. Kakki NP: Julia Fordham - Hope, Prayer and Time ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:03:34 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: what's the most happiest joni song? In a message dated 6/23/00 4:43:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, phy6pgk@phys-irc.novell.leeds.ac.uk writes: << My own vote for happiest song is "Chelsea Morning", FWIW. >> Mine goes to "Underneath the Streetlights." There is no equal among her songs for her unrestrained exuberance. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:40:48 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Possible Reason catman Is On Hiatus It's a pity that Colin was crucified on the list and is still labelled as a "Hate Monger". Some of us really appreciated his contributions to the list. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:20:35 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings Does anyone know the words of the little chant that's going on in the background ? It comes in.at the start of the song and during the Charlie bits. thanks, Philip NP Number One ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:16:57 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: Re: Nuriel, Cut It Out s o r r y - sorry Catrina, sorry Paul, sorry everyone - it'll never happen again. please forgive me. yours, nuriel. (ada's son) >From: Siresorrow@aol.com >To: wittadi@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Nuriel, Cut It Out >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:15:51 EDT > >Nuriel, > >You took a private post of Catrin's and posted it to the list. You also >did >it with Paul. At the time of Paul's post, I thought it was justifiable. >Now, I'm starting to think Paul's instincts were not so off base. > >I've asked you to identify yourself as either Nuriel or Ada, a young person >or an older person. You have not answered. You've lost my consideration. >And taking private posts to the list is a major mistake on this list. So >please, stop doing that and let old flames die out. Pat ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:58:08 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! (SJC) Kakki wrote: << I've been waiting so impatiently for this one and I must say it lives up to it's pre-release press. Thank you Bob, it's brilliantly awful! Love the disc art, too - haha! I got my covers 3,4 & 5 yesterday too. Naturally I had to put on the "cheese" disc first. Well, let me tell you what happen next my friends. I started to hear noises in the kitchen.... from the cupboard, from the refrigerator, from other cabinets. The rattling noises got louder and louder. I had to stack chairs and other pieces of furniture against all of these bulging doors. As Doris Day started to sing "Both Sides Now," it was just too much. The cabinets overloaded And the crackers started flying And the loose tooth picks Were lashing out at me I'm not going to clean this up Too easy Thanks Mr. Muller for a wonderful "party, cocktail mix" CD. I only wish Wayne Newton would have done a Joni cover. I can't wait to play this at my next party. It will certainly be an icebreaker :~) Seriously Bob, to you and all of the contributors, I want to thank you for all the hard work on the covers project. Now I can't wait for the covers that Wally B. had tucked away. Happy Friday Everyone! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 23 08:01:27 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings <> No problem with disputing me, Bev - that's what a discussion list is all about! Especially OK to dispute when I make a statement that's blatantly incorrect... Thanks for clearing it up, I knew "Charlie" referred to one or the other, so I had a 50% shot. ;~) Bob NP: Wally K, "The Circle Game" ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 23 08:24:22 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! <> "Brilliantly awful"...I like that! ;~) My comments follow... <> I did a Danny Thomas coffee take with this one! LOL! But you know, the guitar part *is* very pretty... <> If you think THIS one is danceable, wait til you hear the Viola Wells version - it gets the Lipps Inc. "Funkytown" treatment! But that's another Volume, another day. <> Yes - truly wretched. And a "Star Trek does Joni" update - Nikki had copied the "Wm. Shatner" BSN for me from the internet, but it ended up being this one...thanks anyway, Nikki! You're building up "Covers Bonus Points" - trade 'em for valuable prizes! :~) <> Possibly the walking definition of Joni cheese! <> I really debated with putting this one on the disc. In my impatience, not knowing if I'd get a full disc of cheese, I added it just because of her vocal struggle with the 15-step leap on "You know it...SURE is hard to leave...". She does 3 other Joni tunes, and they're really super. She'll be back and get her due! <> But you gotta love those do-do-do's! <> Yes, a real find - thanks to Leslie! Boston Jim nailed this one, saying it was "Association-ish". <> What is up with this abortion of her original lyrics? All you songwriters out there...what's the law around doing someone else's song but doing major lyric alterations? <> Oh worry not about more cheese - there's plenty more, but I'll not contain so much dreck on one disc again, rather it'll be tucked away along with the others... And of course, cheese is always in the ear of the beholder anyway! Bob NP: Marcel Deste, "Cactus Tree" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:28:05 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: additional joni sightings there's a photo of joni posing with steve macklam, diana krall, lawrence fishburne and larry klein in the july 2000 issue of jazz times. the caption reads: "the stars came out for diana krall's two sold-out shows at los angeles' royce hall. from left to right: krall's manager steve macklam, the grammy-winner herself (diana krall), actor lawrence fishburne, jazz-folk diva joni mitchell and producer-musician larry klein." also, on the pat metheny group discussion page called american garage, a thread has developed asking pat whether he would consider playing with joni again. about a half dozen reponses from listers but no response from metheny yet. you can find american garage at http://www.patmethenygroup.com/af/index-garage.html phil ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 23 08:31:24 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Cheese rev-eiuuuuu! (SJC) <> Yes indeed, Jimmy, many thanks and blessings to the contributors for this one, namely: 1. Adrienne Barbeau – I Had a King (Stephen) 2. Claudine Longet – Both Sides Now (Coyote Rick) 3. Boomtang Boys – Both Sides Now (Catherine "Maxigirl") 4. Kathie Lee Gifford – Born For You/Circle Game (Stephen) 5. Leonard Nimoy – Both Sides Now (Philip) 6. Nazareth – This Flight Tonight (Me) 7. Doris Day – Both Sides Now (Stephen) 8. Hole – Both Sides Now (Garrett) 9. Trish Colter/Paul Read – Carey (Me) 10. Mabel Mercer – Both Sides Now (Stephen) 11. Carteret High School Choir – Both Sides Now (Stephen) 12. Jim Nabors – Both Sides Now (Jimmy) 13. Elvis Presley – (You’re So Square) Baby, I Don’t Care (Me) 14. The Tokens – Both Sides Now (Leslie) 15. Anne Murray – Both Sides Now (Leslie) 16. Billy Squier – River (Frank T.) 17. Robert Goulet – Both Sides Now (Leslie) Bob NP: Marcel Deste, "For Free" (love that mandolin!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 06:34:08 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! Rick and Don, Yes, past generations have been shocked by their children's music, Elvis, then the Beatles, Jefferson Aircraft, Alice Cooper, etc. I remember my parents worrying because I went crazy over the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. However, I don't ever remember any of those "shockers" using lyrics about raping their mothers, hideously violent acts, degradation of women, etc. Sex, drugs and rock & roll is VERY different from incest, murder and misogyny. No way will I accept that it is "EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!" as Coyote claims. If you're defending freedom of speech and expression, fine, he's free to say what he wants, although the thought of him receiving major airtime is frightening. But if you think it's just another harmless matter of kids shocking their parents with their art, that goes over like a lead balloon, lead lead balloon. The lyrics are appalling and criminal, and simply cannot be defended or rationalized. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 07:01:55 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Ironically Joni and Eminem Wow! I went to amazon.com today, and found quick picks for Joni and Eminem on the first page. Blindness, blindness and sight. Harper Lou ======================== Joni Mitchell, Taming The Tiger Following the Grammy triumph of Turbulent Indigo by four years, Joni Mitchell rewards our wait with an album that's even better. Taming the Tiger finds Mitchell playing her guitar through a Roland VG8, adding fresh texture to her continuing musical association with Wayne Shorter's sax and the rhythm... More Quick Picks: Eminem, The Marshall Mathers LP His second album finds Eminem struggling to contain the pressures of success. And he's dealing it with it disgracefully. The Detroit rapper's multiple identities are more mixed up than ever, with Marshall Mathers fighting for prominence against his alter egos: Eminem, Slim Shady, Kenneth Kaniff, and his public image. Don't be fooled by the album... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:14:16 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: positive comments - ps... Pat, First of all, I appreciate the majority of your kind words. But I am likewise "almost as old as Joni" and certainly am wise and experienced by the years. I do not appreciate your inference that I am not. We all certainly choose our battles, as do I. What I do not do is tell people that what they pursue is a "waste of time." They choose their battles for their own reasons. The years have taught me to respect others causes and not to negate it. I generally find people downplay others causes out of their own fears. The www.rollingstone.com board has changed, so I am pleased. It is a small amount of effort to post a message; hardly a battle. It makes the board available again for positive comments. If neglected I'm sure negative factors will return. That is the flow of life. Lastly, you placed a copy of a personal e-mail in your last posting that I sent only to you, Pat. As I understand, that is not approved on the list and I trusted that it would remain as such . . . a personal e-mail. We all have Joni in our souls, we are all Joni-like. Like energy is drawn to like energy. I loved reading your causes . . . your history. May the road laid down before you continue to be as rich. Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:52:44 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings gene mock wrote: >then again, "the beat of black wings" could be the human wave assaults the >vc's made on our positions. viet cong were often characterized by wearing >black pajamas. "charlie angel" could be a vc that "killer kyle" killed. >what do you think? take care gene I don't know this song (mea culpa) but if the context is the Vietnam war, my first guess would be that the "beat of black wings" is the "thwack-thwack-thwack..." of the helicopter rotors. Does that work? (Also used to great effect in Kate Bush's great "Pull out the Pin.")] Meanwhile, "Johnny Angel" also turns up in 10cc's "Johnny Don't Do It." I'm sure it's the same dude. He was so beautiful...., that he had to die. Bruce M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:11:34 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings It works for me. That has always been my interpretation, at any rate. "Boston Jim" > my first guess would be that the "beat of black wings" is the > "thwack-thwack-thwack..." of the helicopter rotors. Does that work? > > > Bruce M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri Jun 23 11:16:12 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings <> So, you've got a homework assignment Bruce...CMIARS! ;~) <> I would say it does - you mentioned Kate Bush, Billy Joel also employs the sound effect to good use in "Goodnight Saigon". Bob NP: Catgirl, "BYT" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:27:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings According to my uncle, a Vietnam veteran, in his unit the term "Charlie Angel" referred specifically to Med-Evac helicopter transports called in to remove the wounded from the battlefields. Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:50:41 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings Another *great* use of the 'copter sound effect can be found in the live version of "As Falls Wichita, So Falls Wichita Falls" from the album Travels, by the Pat Metheny Group (of all people). :-) "Boston Jim" > I would say it does - you mentioned Kate Bush, Billy Joel also employs the sound effect to good use in "Goodnight Saigon". > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:56:58 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: positive comments - ps... >Lastly, you placed a copy of a personal e-mail in your last posting that I >sent only to you, Pat. As I understand, that is not approved on the list >and I trusted that it would remain as such . . . a personal e-mail. > My apologies to Pat on this folks! My mistake on her last e-mail! Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 10:05:33 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: happy songs and Canadian accents Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:29:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Two songs come to mind when I think of Joni being happy and contented: Chelsea Morning ("Woke up, it was a Chelsea morning and the first thing that I saw was the sun through yellow curtains and a rainbow on the wall") and Night Ride Home ("I love the man beside me. We love the open road. No phones til Friday-- far from the overkill, far from the overload.") Bob wrote that he doesn't really hear Joni's accent in her singing voice, and while it IS more evident when she speaks, I hear that wonderful accent poking through all the time in her songs. You can hear it in: - --any word with "-ar", as in garden, bar, car - -- a hard "o", as in cold, oh, home, crow, golden - -- a hard "i", as in wine, time Joni closes her vowels very quickly when she sings, which I find wonderful (b/c I associate it with her), but which my voice teacher corrects in me every time! Finally, a comment on the "youth of today are hopeless" thread. I still consider myself a young person at 23, but I have always been older in musical tastes than my peers. Young poster Sara reminds me of myself, because as my friends in high school were caught up in gangsta rap and techno, I was listening to stuff like the Beatles, Traffic, the Kinks, Fairport Convention, Pat Metheny, and of course, Joni. Not all of us have musical tastes that suck, although many teenagers do. HOWEVER, so do many, many adults! Having worked in my parents' record stores since I was 15, I can tell you from experience that this is true! As far as the "goodness" of people, or lack thereof, you're going to find terrible people (like the date rapist/animal abuser who has been mentioned) in all generations. And you will also find good. I have never used drugs or drunk alcohol, I got straight A's in high school and college (though I have gotten a few B's in grad school so far), and I volunteered in an animal shelter in Gaineville, FL, for my whole sophomore year of college. Please do not think I am saying this in a bragging/showing-off fashion. I simply wanted to demonstrate, like Sara, that you do not need to feel hopeless about the younger generations. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:08:44 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: fucking music playing for the beat of blackwings no doubt it's fucking music. go to - http://blackwing.co.uk/Studios/History.html and - well - i think most of you will find in the list there more than one artist (that you know) who's involvment in music began "there". yours, nuriel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:16:57 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Unheard Joni Albums Bruce just mentioned never having heard CMIARS. I'd find it fascinating to know who else on the list has missed one or more, and which ones. (It would be kind of nice to be in the position of still having an album or two to hear for the first time, wouldn't it?) Maybe it would provide for some interesting discussions, as JMDLers step up to lobby for their friends' exposure to this or that album. "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:16:40 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: positive comments - ps... >My apologies to Pat on this folks! My mistake on her last e-mail! Ah, folks . . . my further mistake. Thank you, Pat. Please correct above . . "My mistake on HIS e-mail!" Loree P.S. - I can relate, Pat. When I lived in England, my female American "Loree" name is the nickname for a man's name, "Lawrence". ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:42:01 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Attention Bostonians!!!!!!! Chris Marshall from the UK is coming to town. We are planning a dinner/get together for Wednesday night, the 28th. Can you make it? Please let me know ASAP! Let's show him a real New England Welcome! (BTW....apologies to Joni-onlies, but I'm not sure which New Englanders are on which list.) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:43:13 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: Unheard Joni Albums >Bruce just mentioned never having heard CMIARS. I'd find it fascinating to >know who else on the list has missed one or more, and which ones. (It would >be kind of nice to be in the position of still having an album or two to >hear for the first time, wouldn't it?) TTT is the only for me. I was moving around a lot that year and everything was in storage . . . stereo equipment included. And don't ask me why I haven't picked it up this year! I keep going to buy it, but don't. Part of me likes the idea of having an unheard Joni CD. I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on TTT. Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:47:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings - --- philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Does anyone know the words of the little chant > that's going on in > the background ? It comes in.at the start of the > song and during the > Charlie bits. > It sounds kind of like scat singing to me - here's what I hear: Ba boo da, bway uh, ba boo da, bway uh... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:57:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings - --- Don Rowe wrote: > According to my uncle, a Vietnam veteran, in his > unit > the term "Charlie Angel" referred specifically to > Med-Evac helicopter transports called in to remove > the > wounded from the battlefields. > That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure I either read or heard in interview with Joni where she said that the percussion in the background either was, or was inspired by, the sound of helicopter rotors, which would have been an often-heard sound in Viet Nam, I'm sure. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:01:25 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Possible Reason catman Is On Hiatus and more (LONG) In a message dated 06/23/2000 3:20:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << I accused him of being a hate-monger and I invited him to deny it. He laughed in my face. This made it worse for me because I took it as confirming my worse fear. Eventually he recanted his hateful joke. I recanted my "facist" charge. >> Jim, Why won't you just drop this bull? The second-guessing of Colin's absence is really irritating to me. For all any of us know, Colin is busy or on vacation, or whatever. The fact that you single this reason out for why Colin has not been posting indicates to me that you're in some sort of personal space where the sun rises and sets upon *you*. There is more to life than the JMDL??? I sure hope so or our lives are limited indeed. I've just about had it with the bickering and much other nonsense on this list. The accusations of Colin by Jim are the last straw. I don't usually write letters like this, as anyone who is a regular reader will attest. I realize this list is far superior to many others, yet it seems also to be among the most "psychologically complex" (for lack of a better term). I guess as I get older and more and more involved in my family, friends, community and career, I have less tolerance for the extraneous complexities out there. I simply want to reserve my energy for those things in my life that are truly important. If I have to enjoy Joni Mitchell in a vacuum again, that's ok with me. I feel better in a vacuum with my "fandom" than continuously being subjected to endless tirades and arguments that people just won't allow to die. The Suzanne Vega discussion list - now there's a kinder, gentler list. Perhaps it's because Suzanne herself is a regular contributor? She's also very gracious and kind to her fans through the list. "During times like these, the wise are influential". I followed carefully the whole thread between Colin and Jim so I know what I'm talking about, at least in terms of the way I interpreted it. Why did I not delete? Well, I know Colin a little. I have seen how he is constantly misunderstood. I know and appreciate his style and humor and intelligence. I was interested to see just what Jim's beef was with Colin. In essence, I was sucked in. My fault? Perhaps but regardless of finding fault, I'll conclude by stating that I don't want to get sucked in anymore by this sort of negativity, regardless. Especially when it's needless and openly hostile. I was ready to put it behind me and go on with the list and then when I decided to read the latest digest, there another reminder from Jim. I'll now delete the dozen or so digests that have stacked up on my computer desktop. I've pretty much had enough. Maybe this mood of mine toward the list will pass, who knows. Bob Muller, thanks for sharing so willingly the music with all of the list. I'll be calling on you to make for me all those tape trees that I still have not accumulated though I've been on list for a year and a half! I think I still have your address kicking around on my desk. Lest you all think it's been completely negative for me here, it has *not* been. But the negativity is something I'm simply having a hard time getting beyond. It's a shortcoming on my part, probably,but what else can I say? Oh, a final thought on the Pat Metheney thread. I did read several of those posts last night while I was trying to plow through all the back issues of digests. All I have to say is: way to go, Pat! After years of silence, people just get tired of keeping quiet. This happens in the work place all the time. People doing a superior job and watching suck-ups get credit for mediocre work and saying nothing because it's "unprofessional" to speak up. I found Pat's description of his opinions extremely articulate and passionate. Clearly, he has been thinking about this for a long time. I don't think that anyone would have been that articulate and clear in the heat of the moment. I now have more respect than ever for Pat. Not only is he an incredible talent but he is also a person of principle and integrity. Pat is not comparing himself to Kenny G. and saying he's a better musician, (though of course he is). He's standing up for all musicians of high integrity. His main beef is not with Kenny G's inferiority (though I know that's how he feels and I can't blame him) but with the sacrilegious and bogus act of using Armstrong as a crutch for creativity. To me it's sort of like using a paint-by-number and calling it art, but much worse, of course. Just my humble two cents. I really enjoyed Fred and Peg's (new list member?) contribution to this thread. Oh, boy...to send or not to send... Take care, it's been real! Gina NP: Inside - Bill Morrissey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:35:15 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Beat of Black Wings i think it is "up on your wing, way up". wally k, IN LOVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > Does anyone know the words of the little chant that's going on in > the background ? It comes in.at the start of the song and during the > Charlie bits. > > thanks, > Philip > > NP Number One > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:30:28 EDT From: WirlyPearl@aol.com Subject: Marcy's Getting Married !!! Hi everyone, I know you haven't heard from me in awhile. Just wanted to let you all know that tomorrow, my 22 year old daughter Marcy is getting married. (She was named after the song). It's been a bit hectic around her the last couple of months. (I also decided that I needed to do a little redecorating as well). I'm sure it will be beautiful but I am a bit nervous as can be expected. I still have a bunch of things to do. (As I told Bob, I don't feel like I'm old enough to be a bride's mother). I did want to get a little Joni content in here. Marcy is giving a CD of her and her fiance's favorite songs called " So Much In Love", as a favor for everyone. In honor of me, I guess, and also because she likes it, she has included the BSN version of "Both Sides Now" as the finale. I think it will make a special and personal gift (except for the older folks who might not have CD players.) The ceremony will be outdoors at sunset on a beautiful South Florida golf course setting. Please help visualize dry weather. I let you know how it was soon. As I said, I still have a lot of little things to do. My best to everyone, Pearl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:49:04 -0400 From: Sally Pont Subject: RE: what's the most happiest joni song? The song "Come to the Sunshine"--on the 2nd fret and Club 47 recordings--is certainly a happy one. Sally - -----Original Message----- From: Ada Wittenberger [SMTP:wittadi@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 4:33 AM To: joni@smoe.org Subject: what's the most happiest joni song? ?????????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 14:29:08 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: more on Mitchell's Canadian voice Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:12 -0400 (EDT) From: mariko sano Thanks Jim, Mary, Mags and everyone for the welcoming words, and for the advice. Bob and Catherine have also commented on the "Canadian sensibility." (something I wrote hastily the other day). I should clarify what I meant by that. I didn’t to mean to suggest there is a single national perspective. There is no single attribute beyond citizenship that all Canadians share. Canada is a diverse country, and we have this in common with our neighbour to the south. Jim is right to say that one doesn’t have to be Canadian to be ambivalent towards popular American culture, and many Canadians participate in the culture of Regis Philbis and Wal-Mart without any conscious reflection on it at all. Many Canadians feel "right at home" in America, and many choose to live there. At the same time, many Americans prefer to live here. I agree with Catherine that Canadians and Americans do have a lot in common, generally speaking. But as far as generalities go, it is just as fair to say that Canadians and Americans are quite different. Catherine says that we are all members of an "extremely consumer-driven society." Yes, we are (probably more production-driven), but then so is much of the world. Can we conclude that we are all the same? I agree that Joni Mitchell’s art "transcends nationality" but I didn’t intend "Canadian sensibility" to mean a national trait, but merely to suggest an alternate point-of-view, one which is not American. It is not a generalization but fact that Canada and the United States are different countries with different histories. In spite of the (American-based) commercial culture Catherine refers to, and in spite of free trade and our increasingly deregulated economy, our countries have centuries of tradition and history which cannot be effaced so easily ­ certainly not in (or by) a single generation. I don’t think I compliment my American friends by pretending that differences do not exist, or worse, imagining that we think and live just the same. I think most readers here, regardless where they are from will accept that it is not arrogant or nationalistic to lay claim to a national identity. These differences should be more apparent to Canadians than Americans. Because we are a minority (Canadians being a much smaller part of the North American equation), the "fact" of Canada is not in the American media. We learn more about their country than they do ours. "Canada" is not a part of the "American sensibility," but that does not mean we, our nation and our sensibility does not exist. It only means that most Americans do not think about us very often. But surely we don’t need Americans to tell us we are here. Isn’t it our responsibility to tell them, through our stories and with our own voice? I think Joni Mitchell sees America as a Canadian. This is what I meant by her "Canadian voice." Her unusual gift is in the way she expresses it. In the coming months I want to discuss with others her writing. I look forward to the exchange. I'm going to abandon my computer for a week in my canoe. Please forward comments to me anyway. Have a fun Canada Day or Independence Day celebration, or if neither applies, just have a darn good week! Ron ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 13:46:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: what's the most happiest joni song? "The Crazy Cries of Love" has what one might think of as a certain kind of happiness ... ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:02:35 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Unheard Joni Albums Boston Jim said: >Bruce just mentioned never having heard CMIARS. I'd find it fascinating to >know who else on the list has missed one or more, and which ones. Not only have I not heard it, I don't even recognize the acronym. Gulp. It turns out that while I am a hardcore Hissing FANatic, I'm not very, er, "developed" as a Joni fan. (Please don't hate me!) I was so bummed by Hejira that I tossed it out the window after two listens. Now I just recently listened to DED and DJRD (for the second time?) which I dug out of my cob-webbed collection of vinyl since I've been going through this intense re-appreciation of Hissing... - --sheepishly, Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:49:33 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: MORE JACO & WAYNE Dave said: >Wayne's and Jaco's genius was never more evident then in Weather Report >with Joe Zawinul, a band that really charted new territory. I saw Jaco >w/ them 3 times, the first being in 1975 or 76 before he had recorded >"Black Market". Just amazing-- Yes, that would have been Jaco at peek performance. [So Where was I?] Shorter of course was a member of one of >Miles Davis' pivotal bands as well, but I think his work with Zawinul >showed his penchant for space, a less is more concept, and wonderful >harmonic sensibility. But have your heard his extensive work with Art Blakey, and all the Blue Note albums under his own name? Shorter's entire output is tremendous in quality and quantity. His second version of the Messengers (and he was the music director during his stay), the sextet with Curtis Fuller and Freddie Hubbard was, by common consent, the best of all. (There's also the earlier fine Blakey group with Lee Morgan.) And I think that his period with Davis was the best Davis group. And then all those Blue Notes... I could go on... but this is a Joni list. Both Jaco and Wayne were a very profound influence >on me at an early age, as was Joni in an altogether different way. I'm >grateful that she collaborated with Jaco, and continues to do so w/ >Wayne, as it has produced some of the most original American music. >I never tire of Mingus and Shadow's and Light, and agree that Hejira >would have too much sameness if it weren't for Jaco's contribution to >the texture. >He was a regular fixture at the BB courts in the village at the time I >lived in NYC, sometimes playing, but most often just hanging talking >trash. It's too bad he couldn't have sought professional help. >Per Joni's comment to" Musician" in the posthumous edition however, few >of his musical friend's knew how to deal with him. And he didn't know how to deal with himself, the predicament and promise of being "the world's greatest [electric] bass player." Once drugs and fame kicked in, then neither when he was manic nor when depressive could he get a grip on his condition, his life. Bruce M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:17:09 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Unheard Joni Albums Hi, Bruce. I, for one, really enjoyed your dissection of Hissing. It would be very interesting to read your analyses of all those Joni albums you've not yet encountered, or to which you have only minimal exposure (ditto this to other JMDLers...Loree, for instance, mentioned not having heard TTT yet, and it would be fun to read her review once she does). Seeing as how you just listened to DJRD for only the second time, how 'bout reviewing that one for us? CMIARS (if you haven't already been bombarded with answers) is the acronym for Chalk Mark In A Rainstorm, the follow-up to DED. "Boston Jim" P.S. I couldn't agree more re Wayne Shorter. Not to knock Weather Report one bit, but Shorter's contributions to Blakey's and Miles' bands were even more brilliant, as were his Blue Note albums in the '60s. His work really helped move the music forward. > > Not only have I not heard CMIARS, I don't even recognize the acronym. > Gulp. It turns out that while I am a hardcore Hissing FANatic, I'm not very, > er, "developed" as a Joni fan. (Please don't hate me!) I was so bummed by > Hejira that I tossed it out the window after two listens. Now I just > recently listened to DED and DJRD (for the second time?) which I dug out of > my cob-webbed collection of vinyl since I've been going through this > intense re-appreciation of Hissing... > > --sheepishly, > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:41:24 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: Unheard Joni Albums "Boston Jim" wrote: >JMDLers...Loree, for instance, mentioned not having heard TTT yet, and it >would be fun to read her review once she does sure . . . whenever I purchase it! Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:07:25 -0400 From: Walter R Rodgers III Subject: shocking lyrics Harper Lou, not trying to pick a fight... but the subject brings to mind "Brown Sugar"... still can't believe no one says a word about all the airplay it gets, to this day... must be the guitar riff... walter ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:15:04 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Unheard Joni Albums << It turns out that while I am a hardcore Hissing FANatic, I'm not very, er, "developed" as a Joni fan. (Please don't hate me!) I was so bummed by Hejira that I tossed it out the window after two listens. Now I just recently listened to DED and DJRD (for the second time?) which I dug out of my cob-webbed collection of vinyl since I've been going through this intense re-appreciation of Hissing... >> OK, Bruce, that explains some stuff. You are such a good writer with such insight, but it seemed like it was always "Hissings", "Hissings", "Hissings"...I'm thinking to myself "is this the only Joni record this guy owns?" Seems I was almost right! :-) But don't worry, bro, nobody's gonna hate you. I had never heard her debut before I signed up here and picked it up. Anyway, now I'm psyched to hear what you have to say about those other deep, jazz-inflected gems of Joni's! Bob NP: Heart, "Magic Man" Live and rockin'! Thanks Nikki! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:01:26 EST From: "James Phillips" Subject: happy Joni songs Dear list - On the thread of happy Joni songs - it's really hard to find any:) but I would think that Happiness is the best face lift off of Taming the Tiger has a bittersweet happiness to it, in my opinion. Same thought and sentiment goes for Big Yellow Taxi as well. This does remind me of something Lucinda Williams said in an interview w/ Rolling Stone, and I think it could be applied to Joni as well, that nobody writes happy songs, for God's sake. James Phillips ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:14:29 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: JONI AND PAT Phil said.... It's great to see fan interest in a Joni / Pat Metheny reunion, and heartening to see that Pat was quoted in the Q+A section as having some interest in in another collaboration, since recent JMDL threads have suggested otherwise. Obviously, whatever negatives Pat remembers from the Shadows and Light daze have long since passed, and I drool at the prospect of a Mitchell / Metheny joint venture coming to fruition. Another former Joni confident, Robben Ford, was quoted in an interview as saying that he would love to play again with Joni, and that too would be a special treat. Robben is simply in a class by himself, as is Metheny, and it would be sincerely gratifying for these musical relationships to "come full circle".....the outcome might be groundbreaking yet again!! How about re-uniting the Shadows and Light band, { Michael Brecker, Metheny, Lyle Mays}, with maybe Brian Blade on drums,{ Don Alias on percussion this time}, and LK subbing for Jaco. Wow!!! Dave F. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 22:45:22 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings From: Wally Kairuz > i think it is "up on your wing, way up". Coincidentally I was listening to this yesterday in the car... loud. Wally, that is exactly what I hear. Up on your wing, wa-ay up-pp Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:07:49 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: happy Joni songs From: James Phillips > > On the thread of happy Joni songs - it's really hard to find any:) but I > would think that Happiness is the best face lift off of Taming the Tiger has > a bittersweet happiness to it, in my opinion. Same thought and sentiment > goes for Big Yellow Taxi as well. Shiny Toys from the much maligned DED is very happy song. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:21:54 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: happy Joni songs "Night in the City," from "Joni Mitchell." --Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:26:10 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Beat of Black Wings which makes us both equally aurally endowed or hearing impaired! hug, wally o K > Coincidentally I was listening to this yesterday in the car... loud. > Wally, that is exactly what I hear. > > Up on your wing, wa-ay up-pp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:47:34 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: happy Joni songs In a message dated 6/23/2000 11:33:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Murphycopy@aol.com writes: << Night in the City," from "Joni Mitchell." --Bob I always thought Carey was a happy song too!! Catgirl ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #263 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?