From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #261 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, June 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 261 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- what's the most happiest joni song? ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings (fuck) ["Ada Wittenberger" ] RE: catman ["Chris Marshall" ] Re: joni and judy [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Beat of Black Wings [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Rhythms Take Three [Joseph Palis ] [none] ["Joni Fan" ] Re: YOUR positive comments are needed ["P. Henry" ] Re: JONI / JACO [B Merrill ] "Centerpiece" as a centerpiece [B Merrill ] Re: YOUR positive comments are needed ["Joni Fan" ] brilliant?!?!? ["P. Henry" ] JACO / SHORTER [dave fairall / beth miller ] Traveling in some vehicle (to Beaumont Texas) [JMDL content] [Brian Gross] who described BSN show as too explicit? [B Merrill ] Assorted Joni Stuff on my Site ["Ken (slarty)" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings [Catherine McKay ] Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice ["Ken (slarty)" ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Bounced Message ] VLJC - Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem [Murphycopy@aol.] Re: who described BSN show as too explicit? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Top Secret ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Beat of Black Wings ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: who described BSN show as too explicit? [Don Rowe ] Eminem ["Kate Bennett" ] Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! [Louis Lynch ] Re: VLJC - Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem [Catherine M] Pastorius Family Website [Ginamu@aol.com] Re: Eminem ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! [Don Rowe ] Re: Nuriel, Cut It Out [Siresorrow@aol.com] Joni Message Board on Rolling Stone Site ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:32:30 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: what's the most happiest joni song? ?????????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:38:11 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: RE: catman(facist...?) i know nothing of "that" thread - must have been away. what was it all about? yours, nuriel >From: "Chris Marshall" >Reply-To: "Chris Marshall" >To: >Subject: RE: catman >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:57:46 -0700 > >Ada wrote:- > > is everything alright with catman? he's not in some "2 grey rooms" case >i > > hope so just tell me he's ok. > >Well, he *is* OK, but he's not on the list at the moment, having left >due to the "Colin's facist statement" thread. > >I'm not surprised actually. > >I *am* pretty f*****g upset, though, that due to someone so blatantly >getting it wrong about him, he's felt the need to leave. We're all the >poorer for it, him included. > >We *all* loose. > >A plague on both your houses. > >--Chris (about 30 miles down the road from Colin, but feeling further > away for the lack of his presence here) > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:46:11 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings (fuck) fucking music - i'm out. >From: Siresorrow@aol.com >Reply-To: Siresorrow@aol.com >To: wallykai@interserver.com.ar, leslie@torchsongs.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:49:05 EDT > >In a message dated 6/21/00 9:32:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >wallykai@interserver.com.ar writes: > ><< to me it has always sounded like "tired angel". >> > >i thought maybe...child angel... in any event, i love that song. it is >one >of my favorites of joni's and it has such a cool illiteration...the beat >..boom.tik tik tik tik boom tik tik .. and then you can hear the little >wings >going faintly...dikadikadikadika >and what a great line...i never had nothing to believe in...plus, she says >the f word. and i have to love that! >pat >np. beat of black wings ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:04:18 -0700 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: catman It's been pointed out that my saying "a plague on both your houses" was probably inappropriate. It summed up my feeling that everyone was losing out as a result of all this. I later (in the shower, where lightning bolts of inspriation often strike) realised that its use in the play is direct condemnation of both parties by Cpt. Prince and that it wasn't the best quote I could have chosen. So, Shakespearian bit retracted, the rest still stands. - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:15:56 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: joni and judy - ----- Original Message ----- From: P. Henry > btw, one selection on 'In My Life', by Donovan, > also had what would later become a Joni-link... > see if you can find it: > > Sunny Goodge Street - That's what we need Pat - a Donovan revival !! Sunshine Superman, Mellow Yellow, Jennifer Juniper. All that flower power. I love it. BTW Joni quoted that very line from Sunny Goodge Street in a radio interview on RTE in 1983 and on Les's site. She said: "Mingus could have walked through the streets of New York fairly anonymously untill Donovan sang "Mingus mellow fantastic" and that Charles liked. that increased celebrity." Philip > "On the firefly platform on sunny Goodge Street > Violent hash-smoker shook a chocolate machine > Involved in an eating scene. > Smashing into neon lights in their stillness > Smearing their eyes on the crazy Kali goddess > Listenin' to ***sounds of Mingus mellow fantastic.*** > "My, my", they sigh, > "My, my", they sigh. > La la etc. > In dull house rooms with coloured lights swingin' > Strange music boxes sadly tinklin' > Drink in the sun shining all around you. > "My, my", they sigh, > "My, my", they sigh. > La la etc. > The magician, he sparkles in satin and velvet, > You gaze at his splendour with eyes you've not used yet. > I tell you his name is Love, Love, Love. > "My, my", they sigh, > "My, my", they sigh." > > :o) > > pat > > > Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 22 07:42:10 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice <> To me, it's not so evident in her singing, you can pick it up when she's in conversation, and when she's interviewing or performing in Canada she really turns it up a notch, sorta like the accent is always there, but she suppresses it when she's out of her native country. As to her choice of abode, she does have a rural getaway where she writes and paints, but a large part of her prefers the rush and glitz of LA. "I couldn't let go of LA, city of the fallen angels..." And like when she was in Mattala and had a hankerin' to get back to her clean white linen and fancy French cologne, she balances her urban and rural life to her satisfaction it seems - I don't see her ever going 100% one way or the other. Bob NP: Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "Master & Slave" ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 22 07:51:43 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings <> It should also be noted that "Charlie" was the reference to the American Soldier, so Killer Kyle could in fact be Charlie Angel. It's also suspected that the fellow in "Cactus Tree", the "man with medals from the war", is also Kyle. In actuality he was a soldier Joni met early on her career when she sung through Fort Bragg in Fayatteville, NC (called Fayette-Nam by a lotta North Carolinians) Just a little trivia from a trivial mind! Happy Thursdy all! Bob NP: Cherry Poppin' Daddies, "No Mercy For Swine" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:37:16 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Rhythms Take Three There is a jazz radio in Manila that has this segment called "Rhythms Take Three" -- where a chosen song is played in three different versions (at least of which is jazz). They usually play standards like "Someone to Watch Over Me", etc. Lately, they have been featuring compositions of David Frishberg, and this morning I heard them tackle Joni's "Woodstock". They started out with Tuck&Patti's version (can be heard in Bob's cover versions) followed by CSNY's rendition. Then the DJ talked about why the song is a classic enough to warrant various versions (I could feel that the DJ has an obvious love for Joni because of his descriptions), and finally he played Joni's original version, which, when heard on the radio can give goosebumps to anyone listening because of the hushed beauty that Joni brought to the song, and that soprano voice that begs to be played late at night or early morning: so fragile it should only be played during magical times of the day. It made my day! Joseph np: Laura Fygi "Lady Wants To Know" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:40:39 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: [none] Your message #66 on the www.rollingstone.com Joni board was brilliant! Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 05:47:39 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: YOUR positive comments are needed I'm coming in several days late on this one but, sorry loree, I have to agree with don and the several others who have basically said it's a waste of time... however, before I came to this conclusion, I was reading some of the posts and jumped to the end to spit out my own, albeit brief gut (knee-jerk?) reaction as follows: Date: 06/22/2000 @ 5:06:49 AM Posted by: phenryb "I've got a 'wake up and smell the coffee' hot flash for all those misguided souls who would trash Joni... there's about an 85% chance that YOUR favorite artist lists her as one of their main influences! think about it!" ...but even this short response was, I'm sure, a waste of bandwidth as it was meant for someone with, at the very least, the cognitive ability of an 8yr old and I'm afraid those are obviously in short supply among the RS crowd... I didn't read many but particularly enjoyed (NOT!) the ramblings of #64... LoL! what a moron!!! this epithet really gave me a chuckle: "There is nothing she has done that is EASY to listen to or follow! I'm not saying that I'm all about easy listening music... not at all! (oh no! LoL!!!) I'm just saying intelligent music is not reliant upon "cramming" phrases and ideas and it is not where there are melodies that are so saturated that they can't be followed!" no loree, I'm afraid there ain't much fertile ground in that field, but, as the name implies, mostly stones... er, rocks. pst Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:07:29 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: positive comments - ps... loree, I also want to say that I respect your heart for wanting to reach out that those less fortunate might come to know the depth of beauty you have experienced through Joni's art... the pathos and the soul... it is very Joni-like... it is how she reached us! ...but, alas, lest we cast our (her) pearls before swine, to be trampled underneath, I fear we must be satisfied that she HAS reached them and been made known to them... indirectly, through SO many other artists I dare not mention any at the risk of neglecting the multitude of others... she is in our blood like holy wine and, to a lesser, diluted degree, she is also in theirs, whether they know it, or like it, or not! peace, pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:47:55 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: JONI / JACO Hi Dave, >Given the fact that they were doing so much blow on that tour, it seems >even more amazing that >they were able to produce the masterpiece Shadows and Light, especially >Brecker and Jaco's fantastic version of "Dry Cleaner". The point is often made in the Milkowski book that Jaco's extraordinary virtuosity and physical stamina made is possible for him to get away with heavy drugging that would have wiped out lesser mortals. (A two-fold capacity he shared with Charlie Parker!) And that even in his deep decline he could sometimes get his chops back... In other words, perhaps if he had been less of a musician he would have not been ruined? Certainly his original high manic energy links to both his high musicianship and his eventual self-destruction. BTW, I have to apologize for this dumb question: > Jaco was such a phenomenal musician (the most creative & >extraordinary >musician that Joni has worked with?) That was not a rhetorical question, i.e. not that stupid. But stupid nonetheless, in that I'd forgotten about both Mingus and Shorter-- both great musicians, and whose compositional skills put JP in eclipse. (And is Shorter another Cocaine casualty? What's happened to that guy??) Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:47:06 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: "Centerpiece" as a centerpiece >Number Six: "Harry's House/Centerpiece" by Martha Stewart. > >(SFX: APPLAUSE) My claps were in there. Martha might be able to sing about this with a certain amount of feeling. Just Might. (What is the "inner Martha" that lies behind that smiling competence and ambition?) Hissing focuses especially upon the decline of romance into marriage & materialism: Marthaland. (If HH/C were written now, perhaps there would be a line about Martha.) The Mandel and Hendricks song, "Centerpiece" embraces this decline within an ambiguity: When he wishes to make his beloved a centerpiece in this lovely "little cottage on the outskirts," is this a matter of romantic elevation, or a matter of possession and materialism? What kind of centerpiece will she be? That is the question. I'll wager that Joni began this composite song by seeing the ambiguity in "Centerpiece." Then she answered the question by making "Centerpiece" the centerpiece of "Harry's house," by setting this song within the context of Harry's possessiveness (material & conjugal). More precisely between the abrupt decline from the erotic vision of the glistening youthful female body by the pool.... down to the big house where "nothing's any good," despite all the fun things we can do with Harry's take home pay. "... you can rely on your old man's money... ... cause you know it doesn't matter anyway..." Bruce M ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:08:09 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: YOUR positive comments are needed > I'm coming in several days late on this one but, >sorry loree, I have to agree with don and the >several others who have basically said it's a >waste of time... This letter is for many of you, not just phenryb by any means! Read the first thirty posts of the www.rollingstone.com message board . . . they are basically positive, some just plain gushing over Joni. Hecklers (as someone has called them) took over. Evidently, their strategy is very effective as it persuades positive folks to stay away. Only one heckler has returned since the very few of us put positive posts back on that message board. Many people go to the Rolling Stone site for information. I did an Internet search for "Joni Mitchell" and rollingstone.com articles came up, so a varied audience reads it NOT just the RS crowd. It was the rollingstone.com site that referred me to jonimitchell.com which is how I came to be a member of this discussion list this week. I was impressed with the rollingstone.com section on Joni and for those interested to know more, would look at the message board. You and others assume everyone that goes to that site is a moron with an "8 year old mentality" (forgive us, the 8-year-olds of the world). You have managed to insult me and others directly. Because of course, we went there to read more on Joni, including the message board. I was enjoying the message board until half way through. I am struck with the volume of threads posted on JMDL groaning over today's youth and the negativity. But yet you all have an opportunity to put positive comments out there. Yet there are those willing to write it off as a "waste of time" which is probably convenient. As to my other "waste of time" activities in my life, I am working with a local community to put in a proper shelter to save the lives of over 100 domestic animals a month. And with that project, I find it interesting how I hear from the majority of individuals, the very same arguement . . . that it is a "waste of time". And like many, my heart breaks for that poor German Shepherd that was so abused. We HAVE to be proactive in life. It all makes me sick, but I do SOMETHING about it. I can't help that particular dog, but I can help the local ones. I work with the youth that I know . . . it isn't always easy, but I continue. And I learn much from them. I know all of you out there DO have your causes. I KNOW you are doing SOMETHING about the things you care about. Please share them and stop telling people that their efforts are a "waste of time." Loree ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:14:39 EDT From: TIKIMOON007@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #348 Thank you all for welcoming in me to the list. To let you know a little about myself, I am 22 and from right outside Boston, MA. I recently attended the fleet pavilion with 2nd row center seats to see the fabulous Joni. What an experience it was my first show of hers and I was completely amazed, couldn't have went any better and the seats couldn't have been any better. I just graduated college up in VT now it is time to search for what everyone seems to call a "real job" whatever that is suppose to mean. My favorite Joni album is Court and Spark but if some of you asked me to choose between For the Roses and Hejira, well I would choose For the roses even though Hejira is absolutely wonderful and I can listen to it over and over again just like any other Joni album. Have a wonderful day everyone!! Stacy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:24:08 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: PWWAM Kakki wrote: >As far as the Joni taping, the chance to go happened so quickly that we >were >too gaga and blithering about it all before, during and after to >think about >more practical matters. "Gaga and blithering" is exactly right! I actually brought my camera with me the first night. Did I get it together enough to use it? No! At least Marsha (?) got some stills... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:02:43 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: brilliant?!?!? aw shucks! ;o) - -- On Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:40:39 Joni Fan wrote: >Your message #66 on the www.rollingstone.com Joni board was brilliant! > >Loree Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:19:43 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: JACO / SHORTER Bruce, Interesting observations about Jaco......he certainly possessed the ability to play while under the influence. I once saw the Word of Mouth Big Band at the now defunct Birdland South in NYC, and after a smokin first set, in which he conducted the band by gesturing with the neck of his bass, he disappeared for an hour and a half. The crowd was getting antsy, and when he finally returned for set #2... he was totally wasted. Played his ass off though, and members of the 24 piece band seemed more amused then upset. A year of so later I saw him with his trio, {Mike Stern + Kenwood Dennard}, at Blues Alley in Georgetown DC, and he repeated that behavior. At that gig I spoke to him briefly, and he was virtually incoherent, glassy eyed and rambling. Somehow the second set really cooked however, and after he left Blues Alley he turned up at another club and sat in w/ an R+B band, for which Scott Ambush, {Spyro Gyra}, was playing bass. Scott likes to tell the story that Jaco sat in and played so loud he literally blew up his amp. Saw him several years later sitting against the fence at the Greenwich Village basketball courts w/ a boom box playing a Weather Report tape, badly in need of a bath...... really sad. There's a long list of visionary musicians who've self-destructed, {Kenny Kirkland is the latest that comes to mind}, and I hope Wayne Shorter is not going that route too. My understanding is that Wayne has been keeping a very low profile, {only a few duo dates w/ Herbie Hancock}, since his wife and daughter perished in the TWA 800 explosion off the East Moriches Long Island coast on July 17, 1996. Thanks, Dave F. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:23:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Traveling in some vehicle (to Beaumont Texas) [JMDL content] Hi gang, I'm headed to Beaumont Texas next week (6/27/00) for a few days of work. Any jmdlers in the area? If so, let me know by the weekend and I have Joni-tape-goodies to share! And I also know where there's a great Chinese Cafe (buffet) from a previous trip there. Don't be shy. Come on out! Hope to hear from you, Brian np: Joni at the Greek in LA 5/12/00 (the stayfree recording!) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:22:04 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: who described BSN show as too explicit? About 3 weeks ago (?) Somebody wrote about Joni's current BSN show as too explicit and didactic. That Joni was be-laboring the case that these songs were positioned within the chronology of a typical love affair. The typical rise and fall of it all. You began to dislike this over the course of the show. Unfortunately, I didn't save your post. Please forgive me; I'll never do this again! If you (the author) or anyone else recalls and still has this post, could you re-zap it to me, please. Pluh-eeeze! (I've already made reference to this post in a prior message, so you see it has stayed on my mind.) And: is the sequencing of the current album the same (more or less?) as the sequencing of the show?? thanks, Bruce M merrillb@crisny.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:34:20 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Assorted Joni Stuff on my Site For those who haven't seen it I have an assortment of Joni related stuff on my site including a Joni Art Screen Saver Program, Joni Icons, a Joni Cursor, Joni Midi Files and now a Joni Tileset for Kyodai Mahjongg plus a link to download the game. Programs are for Windows 95/98. http://millennium.fortunecity.com/sherwood/452/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:38:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings - --- leslie@torchsongs.com wrote: > I remember a while back there was a thread regarding > the "Beat of Black Wings." Did we ever resolve what > the lyrics are to the sections between verses in > BoBW? > Something > like "Charlie Angel" ... > In the music book they actually have "Charlie Angel", but I always thought it was "Johnny Angel" as in the song from the 60's (?), or maybe late 50's: "Johnny Angel, how I love him..." I think it may have been sung by Shelley Fabares or another teen queen of the time. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:37:12 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Mitchell's Canadian voice This might not be the case. Tax laws might not let her remove above a set amount of money that she has made in the States. B Merrill wrote: > SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: I do feel like she compares her > >country rural upbringing with the faster-paced American culture and prefers > >the former... > > If that's the case, then why does she live in the US? Has she answered this > question? > Being wealthy, she could live wherever she chooses. > > Since I missed the prior thread, I'd be happy to hear more about her > Canadian voice. > > Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:42:09 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 02:15:40 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Hey David (and all Joni fans), How've you been? I'm planning to come by to Judy's for your show sometime soon! There've been so many posts on the Downbeat "bashing" that I didn't know which one to reply to, so I chose yours :-) First, I haven't picked up the July edition, but plan to this week. Dying to read the article. I had the pleasure of attending 4 of the shows on Joni's recent BSN tour, as well as listening to the CD several dozen times. Joni, throughout her career, is no stranger to bad press. She has a knack of being quoted out of context, or simply finding herself in situations where a lengthy response to a question is editorially reduced to a sentence or two that doesn't cast her in a very positive light. Also I've noticed over the years that many interviewers have, IMO, prodded her into answering questions of a comparative nature (e.g. do you find similarities between your work and Jewel's/Sheryl Crow's/Alanis Morisette's/Ani DeFranco's, etc., etc. etc.). If she replies that she's not very familiar with another - typically younger - - artist's work, she's immediately shunned and portrayed as egocentric. But where is it written that Joni MUST listen to everyone else's' work? Being a singer/songwriter/musician herself does not REQUIRE that she spend her spare time listening to the works of other artists. And the press seems to have a field day harping on the fact that she doesn't devote her free time to studying the works of of other contemporary artists, and that, almost by default, she's therefore egocentric, and better than them. And if, god forbid, she has something positive to say about the works of Billiie Holiday, Chuck Berry, Edith Piaf, Bob Dylan, The Persuasions, Marvin Gaye, Miles Davis, and so on (singers/songwriters/musicians whose works she grew up listening to, or she was inspired by, or whatever), the press somehow finds it necessary to point out that she considers herself to be part of a different league -- all because Joni has CHOSEN not to follow the careers of younger singer/songwriter/musicians. It's the lady's choice....not the choice of the press. As to employing a term like "musically uninformed" -- that's our Joni. She's entitled to say what she wants to. "Critics of all expression, judges in black and white, saying it's wrong, saying it's right." She wrote that some 25 years ago. She knew back then, as she knows today, that you'll never please everyone; she's accepted that, and as opposed to censoring herself, and she says what what comes to mind. As far as "ego of the year" goes, I personally think that's way off base. I remember when she won her Grammy for Turbulent Indigo, she didn't know what to say cause she was so "stunned." And when she accepted her Billboard Lifetime Achievement award, she mentioned that she'd spent days trying to trying to find the perfect balance of dignity and humility in accepting the award, and closed by holding the award and saying "thank you music-lovers, everywhere!" Hardly egocentric. And I sensed no ego what-so-ever at the recent TNT tribute which I had the pleasure of attending -- 6 row center, but what I noticed was flattery, honor, and humility. Again, I haven't read the Downbeat article yet. If it contains any "ego," IMO, it's well deserved, because a talent like Joni's simply doesn't come along all that frequently. But in the past 5 yrs, at different, assorted honors, I found Joni to be very humble. Best, Kenny Dflahm@aol.com wrote: > Obviously, the letter-writers quoted from DOWNBEAT were unhappy with JM's > comments (and perhaps her in general). But how does that qualify as > "bashing?" > > IMO, "bashing" would ocur when 100 letters in praise of JM arrived at > DOWNBEAT and the editors chose (therein the bash) to reprint the only two > negative ones. > > > DAVID LAHM =========================================================== PLS NOTE: my new email address is "kg1@bellatlantic.net" Any email sent to "kg@ibm.net" after 10/1/00 will NOT be rec'd =========================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:07:38 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: VLJC - Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem In yet another move that’s sure to stun her vast legions of loyal fans, Kathie Lee Gifford today revealed that she has left her husband, Football Hall of Famer Frank Gifford, for hotshot singer/songwriter/artist Eminem. "After I found the strength to move away from the whole Regis thing, I felt empowered," Kathie Lee gushed. "Oprah helped, of course. And when I recorded ‘The Circle Game’ I knew Frank had to go, too. I mean, duh! Who needs his little side dishes of flight attendants looking at me from every tabloid in the check-out line? I mean, hello! What about my needs?" She paused, looked wistfully off into space, and smiled. "And while I was feeling all these crazy, mixed-up emotions, while I was so vulnerable and so alone, I went to a Burger King and met Eminem. He was so romantic. He spit on my onion rings and, well, I just went all squirmy inside. I’d actually never met anyone like that before," she purred. "You know," Kathie Lee continued, her eyes misting, "Joni Mitchell once said, ‘They introduce this, like, really stinko band but they seem so much incredibly bad confetti looking at them on my enormous big-screen TV,’ or something like that." She hesitated for a moment, and broke into a radiant smile. "But Eminem, or ‘M&M,’ as I like to call him, his stuff is different. He’s a real artist." She reached over and pinched the young rapper’s cheek, cooing, "You’re Mommy’s widdle wigga, aren’t you? You’re my widdle wigga wappa, aren’t you? Yes, you are, yes, you are! And you wuv your Mommy, don’t you? Don’t you?" Eminem just smiled, violently. The happy couple also announced plans for an album they’re recording together. Tentatively titled, ‘Bitchslapped,’ it will be a "conceptual work which traces the arc of a sordid little attraction between an immature, misogynistic homophobe and a head case who attained infamy by violating Third World child labor practices for personal gain," Eminem said proudly. "’Bitchslapped’ will also feature Kenny G, Judy Collins, Joan Baez and Mrs. Miller," according to the rapper. "And Tommy Lee and Jackson Browne, of course," Kathie Lee laughed. "Plus, as a special farewell salute to Frank, my soon-to-be-ex, we’ll be recording ‘My Old Man,’ by Joni Mitchell. "We’ll even have dead people on the new CD," Eminem said proudly. "We’ve actually been sampling some primo Tito Puente, if you know what I mean." Asked about her children, Cody and Cassidy, Kathie Lee seemed confused, "Aren’t those Joni Mitchell songs?" she asked, "They’re on ‘Hejira,’ right? Or is it ‘Hissing?’" ------------------------------ Date: Thu Jun 22 13:08:31 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: who described BSN show as too explicit? <> No more or less about it, Bruce...the show was the BSN album in EXACTLY the same sequence. Bob NP: Diana Krall w/The Chieftains, "Danny Boy" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:18:27 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: Top Secret hi everyone - it's been days since i've asked you "do you know where joni's debut was recorded, since there's no place's name mentioned on the detail list" - and no one answered me so i wonder - you don't know where or is it a top secret? love to get an answer. yours, nuriel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:06:54 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: Re: Beat of Black Wings The soldier (in joni's video - and acted by herslef) is black. >From: leslie@torchsongs.com >Reply-To: leslie@torchsongs.com >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: Beat of Black Wings >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:23:39 -0700 (PDT) > >I remember a while back there was a thread regarding >the "Beat of Black Wings." Did we ever resolve what >the lyrics are to the sections between verses in BoBW? > Something >like "Charlie Angel" ... > >Leslie ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:10:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: who described BSN show as too explicit? - --- SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > No more or less about it, Bruce...the show was the > BSN album in EXACTLY the same sequence. > And since Joni and I developed BSN as a "concept" album tracing the "arc" of a love affair ... wouldn't changing the order make it the "oblique angles" of a love affair? Or something more radical ... the "polygon" of a acquaintance? The "vectors" of a friendship? Yeah, and you thought my liner notes were over the top! ;-D Lary Klein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:57:27 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: RE: catman (jews?) hi - i see. seems like it's been a nasty thread. you haven't said much only that it's better off. but one of our friends wrote it was something against jews. so pardon me folks i don't want to pull you through it again - but if catman wrote something like that - i have to know and a very short line about what was his saying will do. nuriel >From: Catherine McKay >To: Ada Wittenberger >Subject: RE: catman(facist...?) >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:47:24 -0400 (EDT) > > >--- Ada Wittenberger wrote: > > i know nothing of "that" thread - must have been > > away. what was it all > > about? > > yours, > > nuriel > > > >You're better off not knowing. Sometimes the way >people fight around here, it's like holiday time at >the inlaws'! > >===== >Catherine (in Toronto) >catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > >_______________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:27:34 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Eminem Reuben wrote: "he has a point to what he is doing, and it may not neccessarily be a bad one." What is his point? (I am trying to be objective now & putting aside my own opinions in a sincere desire to understand what it is that people see in him. Other than shock value of the lyrics which seems to attract & a catchy chorus). Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:42:25 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! Marcel writes: Wait a minute. This clown is on fricken MTV being interviewed, out doing concerts in huge venues, being paid major bucks to basically verbally defecate and hes got a BITCH with the music industry ???? I do to. Its called flush this turd down the toilet along with about a hundred others like him and the process of restoring value to artistic apreciation of music will commence. ================ Marcel, You are so right it hurts! Please, make me a promise. After I die laughing from one of Mr. Don Rowe Klein's posts, please write a eulogy for my funeral! Usually this lou will harp endlessly about almost anything that has to do with the state of the world. However, I visited the website with Eminem's lyrics. What disgusting rot! It's not even worth the words I would need to condemn it properly. The boy's obviously just plain ignorant and base. Given Eminem's attitude toward women, gays, mothers, and mammals in general, I move that owning or buying one of his records would be grounds for immediate removal from this esteemed list. And, any parents on the list with kids who own the record should take it from them and make them listen to Blue or Court and Spark until they lose all desire to stick garbage in their little ears. Really, that guy is against everything Joni Mitchell stands for: intelligence, feeling, grace, art, music, love and humanity. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:55:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE: catman (jews?) No, it was one of those cases where people misunderstood each other and, in their attempts to clarify what had been said, only succeeded in further muddying the waters. Nothing anti-Semitic, nothing anti-anyone, which is why I responded (just to you) saying you were better off not knowing. - --- Ada Wittenberger wrote: > hi - > i see. seems like it's been a nasty thread. you > haven't said much only that > it's better off. but one of our friends wrote it was > something against jews. > so pardon me folks i don't want to pull you through > it again - but if catman > wrote something like that - i have to know and a > very short line about what > was his saying will do. > nuriel > > > >From: Catherine McKay > >To: Ada Wittenberger > >Subject: RE: catman(facist...?) > >Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:47:24 -0400 (EDT) > > > > > >--- Ada Wittenberger wrote: > > > i know nothing of "that" thread - must have been > > > away. what was it all > > > about? > > > yours, > > > nuriel > > > > > > >You're better off not knowing. Sometimes the way > >people fight around here, it's like holiday time at > >the inlaws'! > > > >===== > >Catherine (in Toronto) > >catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca > > > >_______________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Get your free @yahoo.ca address at > http://mail.yahoo.ca > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:13:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: VLJC - Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > Kathie Lee Gifford to divorce Frank, marry Eminem > This is SOOOOO funny! I particularly liked this line: "Eminem just smiled, violently." ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:16:54 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Pastorius Family Website Hello one and all! I'm about 12 digest behind so forgive me if someone has already posted about this. Back in January of '99, Wally posted on the Joni site an interview with Ingrid Pastorius, whom I felt extremely connected to for some reason, just through what she expressed in the interview. I admired and respected her unpretentious, thoughtful and loving way of discussing her late husband. I wrote Ingrid a letter at that time telling her how much I appreciated having had the good fortune to read her words. Not surprisingly, in light of the person she clearly appears to be, she wrote back a sweet and thoughtful letter. More recently, Ingrid sent several Jaco fans a link to the family website created by her and Jaco's sons Julius and Felix. Please check it out. There, posted among several letters from friends and fans alike, is my original letter to Ingrid. I noticed Michael Paz also wrote. (Nice letter, Michael!) The Pastorius Family Website is truly heartwarming and I state this with the utmost of sincerity. The interface to the home page has a photo of Jaco that depicts well the beautiful man he was. They say it's all in the eyes - well, there you go. The Jaco Pastorius Family Website Take care and happy summer, Gina NP: My daughter on the piano ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:32:02 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Eminem His point is: he hates the current wave of popular culture, and is trying to be a part of it while not being a part of it. (This is based on very limited knowledge of the guy, and several articles that I have recently read). I can't believe I'm still talking about him. I wonder if he needs a PR person... (My Name Is) Reuben >From: "Kate Bennett" >Reuben wrote: "he has a point to what he is doing, and it may not >neccessarily be a bad one." > >What is his point? (I am trying to be objective now & putting aside my own >opinions in a sincere desire to understand what it is that people see in >him. Other than shock value of the lyrics which seems to attract & a catchy >chorus). > >Kate Bennett >Singer/Songwriter >www.katebennett.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:46:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Eminem, junk food for juveniles indeed! - --- Louis Lynch wrote: > After I die laughing > from one of Mr. Don Rowe Klein's posts, please write > a eulogy for my > funeral! > In addition to hoping I don't cause the untimely death of Harper Lou, I'm also hoping that my off-handed and casual reference to Eminem in my RS Messageboard thread post is NOT what started all of this ... But honestly, when we were young'uns, holed up in our rooms with our blacklight posters, listening to "The End", or "White Rabbit", "Helter Skelter" or the others ... did our folks find that every bit as shocking than this? I ask this question *NOT* to validate or defend Eminem by any stretch of the imagination ... and can only say that we can be thankful that the music business is as mercurial as it is. This guy will tank soon enough ... to be replaced by what? I sometimes honestly shudder to think. But then again, we've all made it through, in a VERY rough chronological order, the following acts, all of which at one time, were considered the harbingers of one apocolypse or another: Alice Cooper Kiss AC/DC Ozzie Ozbourn The Sex Pistols Twisted Sister 2 Live Crew Marilyn Manson All the members of these various bands have at some point, shrugged their shoulders and offhandedly commented "It's just an act" ... or "It's just rock 'n roll" ... or "Our fans don't take it seriously." Wouldn't surprise me to hear Eminem saying the same thing. But there have always been some that DID take it seriously, and ended up hurting either themselves and/or others in response to it. With the result that the material achieved contraband status. In some cases, this status was further magnified by declarations of "pornography" and actual bans of sales of the material. That the music industry has long supported this kind of material should come as no surprise to anyone. What is contraband is, by extension desirable, and achieves the kind of brand identity that the suits can't resist. So I'm afraid we're stuck with it ... at least as long as the CDs keep selling. Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:53:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "Lori R. Fye" Subject: Re: what's the most happiest joni song? Ada Wittenberger asks: > "what's the most happiest joni song??????????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My pick: "Underneath the Streetlight" Lori in DC NP: Some really crappy, repetitive, computer-generated music as I sit here on "hell hold" with Gateway ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:15:51 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Nuriel, Cut It Out Nuriel, You took a private post of Catrin's and posted it to the list. You also did it with Paul. At the time of Paul's post, I thought it was justifiable. Now, I'm starting to think Paul's instincts were not so off base. I've asked you to identify yourself as either Nuriel or Ada, a young person or an older person. You have not answered. You've lost my consideration. And taking private posts to the list is a major mistake on this list. So please, stop doing that and let old flames die out. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 17:22:27 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Joni Message Board on Rolling Stone Site To participate in the Rolling Stone Magazine "Message Board" for our own Lady Of Duality, go to: http://www.rollingstone.com/sections/boards/text/default.asp?afl=&comingfrom =artist&aid=360 Better yet, bookmark the SOB until we affect change. (with an "a", right English teachers?) All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:37:39 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Walecki interview. Hi Les, Sorry to reply to you in public, but I have sent 4 emails to you and all were returned as bumped mail. The address I used is les@jmdl.com. Forgive me if I am doing something wrong. God knows my 'internet/computer skills are sorely lacking. I even hit 'reply' and my messages were still bumped back. I am flattered that you would ask me to do the interview. Fred Walecki is a good man with great heart and spirit. As much as I would like to be a part of this, there are two better options. One, Fred's wealth of musical knowledge would be best tapped if he were interviewed by someone with a stong background in music. In which case someone like say, Michael Paz would make a superb choice! Or perhaps someone in the L.A. area since Mr. Walecki is more than willing to act as a go between and set up an interview with himself AND Joni. He is willing to contact her management on this. This would indeed make for a wonderful, wonderful event for the JM community! Something I think we've all dreamed of here. His willingness to do this is something I think we should take advantage of!!! Another concern I have is Fred's health. It would be best to set up an interview that puts him in the most comfortable situation possible. Recovering from chemo, and newly dealing with an artificial voice box would make for serious obstacles to be dealt with. This is a great opportunity and I will be willing to help out in any way possible to get this rolling along. But, as I say, best case scenario would have someone else at the helm. Perhaps we could have a fund raiser for jmdl.com? Winner gets to do the Joni interview? (Actually, I'd like to see you have the honors, Les as our grand leader.) Again, many thanks for writing me. I feel honored. And apologies for the public discussion. --As to your mail address, corrections are gratefully welcome! What did I do wrong? And please, keep me, us posted. Thanks. John Calimee (Imagining the irony of my being the impetus of someone else meeting Joni... and not me...) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #261 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?