From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #259 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 21 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 259 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- UK jonifest - Down In The Cellar ["ALCHEMYMULTIMEDIA.COM" ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat ["Joni Fan" ] Re: joni and judy - sjc ["P. Henry" ] A place to archive Joni photos and articles ["Joni Fan" ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Mark Domyancich ] Re: The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell Songs [Catherine Mc] RE: joni bashing in downbeat [Don Rowe ] Re: The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell Songs [Don Rowe ] Re: joni and judy [Catherine McKay ] RE: www.rollingstone.com trashes joni [Louis Lynch ] RE: joni bashing in downbeat ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: joni and judy [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: joni and judy ["James L. Leonard" ] RE: joni bashing in downbeat [Don Rowe ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Catherine McKay ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #345 [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Don Rowe ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni and judy [Catherine McKay ] Re: joni and judy ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [Mark Domyancich ] Re: joni bashing in downbeat [PFallo@aol.com] Who Todays Kids really are [MDESTE1@aol.com] RE: catman ["Chris Marshall" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:14:33 +0100 From: "ALCHEMYMULTIMEDIA.COM" Subject: UK jonifest - Down In The Cellar Apologies folks, for not including my address in yesterday's post. It is... Martin Giles 75 Gauntlett Court Off Harrow Road Sudbury Middlesex HA0 2PH UK As for what ?5.50 is in dollars, I think that it's about $8.25US at the moment, but you'll only find out for sure when you go to change your money. atb, Martin. in London. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:20:19 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the same sentence I read in a recent magazine about KL's new CD and the reviewer prefaced his review with a condescending take of KL's non-musical celebrity-hood before plunging to the merits of the album. After describing her voice and dissing the inappropriateness of song choices, the reviewer mentioned that at least in one track, Joni Mitchell's Circle Game, KL paid a lot of respect to the song and was actually quite moving in her rendition. As I don't know much about KL (or for that matter Adrienne Barbeau), I feel compelled to buy her CD and listen to her tell the stories of each song. I admit that I am probably one of those odd people who usually goes for albums of artists heavily lambasted by critics and buyers and see (or hear) for myself what they wanted to say in the first place. Besides, when Bob posted the track listing of the KL's album, I saw interesting songs in the line up. Interesting for me, anyway. Most of the albums of some artists were heavily criticized when they came out during its time, and although I am not suggesting that KL's album will be a classic in the next decade or couple of decades (or more decades) and KL may not be Joni but I think she deserves to be heard just the same for purely musical reasons. (Apologies to those who don't want KL's name mentioned in the same sentence as Joni's). Just my two cents, Joseph "Don't worry about popular opinion." -- F. Scott Fitzgerald On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > 1. Born For You/Circle Game > 2. It Goes Like it Goes/Sweet Dreams > 3. Help is on the Way > 4. Moondance (just for you, Kakki!) 6:29 Worth! > 5. Here's That Rainy Day > 6. Before the Parade Passes By/Don't Rain on My Parade > 7. First Time/Not Exactly Paris > 8. I Got Lost in His Arms > 9. Only My Pillow Knows > 10. Child in Me > 11. On My Way to You > 12. Sunrise Sunset/Try to Remember > 13. The Journey > 14. Born For You > 15. Ironman/Smoke On The Water (I made that up!) > k ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:00:07 +0200 From: "Francesco Lucarelli" Subject: Crosby Stills Nash...and sometimes Young ***2 book-set*** We are proud to present you the homepage of a new CSN (and sometimes Y) project: two books which will be available in early 2001. http://utenti.tripod.it/FranzL/homepage.htm The first volume of this project "Crosby Stills Nash...and sometimes Young" (448 pages with - more or less - 200 b&w photos) will feature the early years and the story of the Hollies, the Byrds and the Buffalo Springfield as well as the CSN&Y story from 1968 until today. The second volume "Forty years of music and a trunk of memories" (240 pages full color, with 300 photos, rare picture sleeves, tickets, handbills, posters, etc.) will contain a detailed discography, videography, bibliography, a complete guest-appearance list (on other people's albums), a concert-chronology (tours, benefit-concerts, live guest-appearances, set-lists, line-ups), a "radio and TV appearance" database and a "cover-version" listing. The set is enriched by many first-hand anecdotes and memories contributed by musicians, producers, managers, photographers, CSN associates, fans and by members of "The Lee-Shore", a CSN internet mailing-list. The authors conducted a number of exclusive and candid interviews with musicians and associates of CSN, including: Mike Finnigan, Joe Vitale, Craig Doerge, Joe Lala, George "Chocolate" Perry, John Sebastian, Dallas Taylor, Richie Furay, Dewey Martin & Madeline Fowler, Bruce Palmer, Chris Hillman, Don Gooch, Ken Weiss, Rance Caldwell, John Gonzales, Paul Dieter, Henry Diltz, Jackson Browne, David Lindley, Mark "Slick" Aguilar, Donovan, Bobby Elliott, Tony Hicks, Chris Stills, Jeff Pevar, James Raymond, James Taylor, Russel Kunkel, Van Dyke Parks, Bobby Ingram, David and Jan Crosby, Stephen Stills and Graham Nash. The two volumes will feature work contributed by California-rock photographer extraordinaire Henry Diltz, top "Brit pop" photographer Harry Goodwin, as well as photos by Ian Astle, Roger Barone, Mike Curcuru, Tom Davis, David Tulsky, and many others. For further info, go to: http://utenti.tripod.it/FranzL/homepage.htm Thanks, Francesco Lucarelli, Stefano Frollano, Herman Verbeke, Lucien van Diggelen ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 21 08:21:15 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat <> Firstly, I photocopied the article and can fax it to whoever wants to read it - it's a good article I think. BUT Joni makes a statement that keeps ringing in my head. She states that anyone who doesn't appreciate "BSN" is not "musically informed", and that just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm aware though that the things Joni says and the WAY she says them are sometimes different things. I'm still only lukewarm towards BSN, and I do consider myself fairly well musically informed - I think this is an "Emporer's New Clothes" kind of statement on her part. Especially when even artists from her own generation (Patti Smith, Steely Dan, Neil Young) have released INCREDIBLE CD's this year. And I had to laugh - in the "Selected Discography" section for Joni, they jump right over the Eighties stuff (and NRH for that matter) to TI! :~) Bob NP: David Byrne, "nothing at all" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:53:06 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Kathie Lee does a woman who's name mustn't be put at the samesentence I'm not a KL fan by any means, but I saw her sing a song from her new cd on Rosie and was impressed with her sincerity and interpretation of the lyrics. Jerry nw: k.d. on the Today show, barefoot and fabulous. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:59:23 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: East Troy Concert Mary writes: >>Hmm. . .that makes a bunch of us who were at that particular concert. There's Jody J., Laura, Susan, me. . . who else? Stand up and be counted>> Mary, This is so weird. I was at that Alpine Valley concert, too, along with Bob and Steve P. Actually, I went on the day it didn't rain. I believe she played 2 days. I still have the ticket and it was even cheaper than you remembered. I had a seat in the main section and it was $7.50! I even wrote down the setlist and saved the Journal review. (It's posted in the concert section of jmdl.com.) Small world, isn't it? Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:19:01 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat She's a pip. BSN, which I adore, has its rough patches. Shamalzy strings, vocal inflections that don't work here and there, etc. I do think its a great record. However, it is not an earth shattering record. I think that some of Joni's more recent stuff (NRH and TI) in particular were much more impressive in general. Compare BSN to a lot of other things, it shines. Compare it to Billie's Lady in Satin, it doesn't. I get a kick out of Joni when she's promoting a record, because that particular record is always treated like it is the first record ever to be made. And I'll freely admit that aside from Harlem in Havana and Love Puts On A New Face, that for me TTT was Joni's least inspiring set to date. I love her stuff to death, but my GAWD she gets a big head. Reuben (I only seem to post in the morning when I can't focus very well. Forgive me...) >From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > >BUT Joni makes a statement that keeps ringing in my head. She states that >anyone who doesn't appreciate "BSN" is not "musically informed", and that >just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm aware though that the things Joni says >and the WAY she says them are sometimes different things. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:20:21 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat Bob wrote: >Firstly, I photocopied the article and can fax it to whoever wants to read >it - it's a good article I think. Bob if you fax that to me, I will turn it into a small bitmap file that I will post back onto the list so anyone can look at it. That should reduce your phonebill! I will send you a separate e-mail with my fax number. > >BUT Joni makes a statement that keeps ringing in my head. She states that >anyone who doesn't appreciate "BSN" is not "musically informed", and that >just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm aware though that the things Joni says >and the WAY she says them are sometimes different things. Ouch . . . I guess I'll have to read the context that is in. > >And I had to laugh - in the "Selected Discography" section for Joni, they >jump right over the Eighties stuff (and NRH for that matter) to TI! :~) Gracious, I guess they think she was just on vacation for those productive years. Loree NP: Jimmie Spheeris "Isle of View" ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 06:37:43 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: joni and judy - sjc philipf wrote: - ----- Original Message ----- From: P. Henry >>The album it came from, 'In My Life' still reigns IMO as the best panorama of great, late '60's folk there is.>> >Pat, In My Life is a great album. She seemed to bring a meaning to the songs that the original writers didn't have in their own versions. Particularly the Dylan and Lennon songs. I think Judy Collins is a great songwriter too. Anyone who has heard Nina Simone's version of Judy's song My Father will agree, I'm sure. Philip> well said, phil. that album is one of the few, outside of Joni's, that is entirely burned into my soul... it's one thing to listen to a recording over and over, relating to the words and music as it relates to you and your life and loving how that beauty fills you, but to add the dimension of learning to play it yourself takes it to a deeper level. so many of the songs Judy has written or presented burn *so* deeply in this way... like 'My Father'. btw, one selection on 'In My Life', by Donovan, also had what would later become a Joni-link... see if you can find it: Sunny Goodge Street - "On the firefly platform on sunny Goodge Street Violent hash-smoker shook a chocolate machine Involved in an eating scene. Smashing into neon lights in their stillness Smearing their eyes on the crazy Kali goddess Listenin' to ***sounds of Mingus mellow fantastic.*** "My, my", they sigh, "My, my", they sigh. La la etc. In dull house rooms with coloured lights swingin' Strange music boxes sadly tinklin' Drink in the sun shining all around you. "My, my", they sigh, "My, my", they sigh. La la etc. The magician, he sparkles in satin and velvet, You gaze at his splendour with eyes you've not used yet. I tell you his name is Love, Love, Love. "My, my", they sigh, "My, my", they sigh." :o) pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:22:57 GMT From: "Joni Fan" Subject: A place to archive Joni photos and articles I have created a Internet "hard drive" to place articles (like the Downbeat article that Bob will send me) and photos. I encourage all JMDLers to use it! 1. - Go to www.xdrive.com 2. - Type JMDL as the User name (it is case sensitive) 3. - Type Joni as the password (also case sensitive) 4. - Select the Login button If someone else is logged on, then try again a little bit later. Download or Upload your files using the buttons at the top. It is pretty simple to use. And, of course, Logout, when you are done. Loree P.S. - (You can ignore the "public" and "private" folders which is part of xdrive directories). P.S.S. - HELP INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE JMDL "HARD DRIVE": If you like to start your own xdrive.com "hard drive" then PLEASE select the "Tell Your Friends" button and put in your own name and e-mail. You will receive a promotion in your own e-mail account. . . please click the link in the e-mail. You can then register for your xdrive account. When you register, we will receive another 5MB on our JMDL drive! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:32:45 EDT From: TIKIMOON007@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #345 Hello everyone! I am really excited that I have joined the list. I have been reading a lot of wonderful things from a lot of wonderful people. I had a shy start at first but i think i will be ok. Take Care Stacy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:38:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: A place to archive Joni photos and articles The mystery of Boom Boom Pachyderm has been solved! Check it out in the Misc Photos folder here - --- Joni Fan wrote: > I have created a Internet "hard drive" to place articles (like the Downbeat > article that Bob will send me) and photos. > > I encourage all JMDLers to use it! > > 1. - Go to www.xdrive.com > 2. - Type JMDL as the User name (it is case sensitive) > 3. - Type Joni as the password (also case sensitive) > 4. - Select the Login button > > If someone else is logged on, then try again a little bit later. > > Download or Upload your files using the buttons at the top. It is pretty > simple to use. And, of course, Logout, when you are done. > > Loree > > P.S. - (You can ignore the "public" and "private" folders which is part of > xdrive directories). > > P.S.S. - HELP INCREASE THE SIZE OF THE JMDL "HARD DRIVE": > If you like to start your own xdrive.com "hard drive" then PLEASE select the > "Tell Your Friends" button and put in your own name and e-mail. You will > receive a promotion in your own e-mail account. . . please click the link in > the e-mail. You can then register for your xdrive account. When you > register, we will receive another 5MB on our JMDL drive! ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:26:50 EDT From: Bolvangar@aol.com Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat James Vincent wrote in Downbeat: >I am so tired of Joni Mitchell always making herself out to be somehow greater >than other female artists who were also popular in her hey day. Lighten up, Joni. >You are not some statue of stone in a park. This guy must be a Joni fan. He's paraphrasing "Come in from the Cold" -- "I am not some stone commission/like a statue in a park/I am flesh and blood and vision" etc. Cleverly put! - --David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:33:30 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: comparison with lesser talent is inevitable Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:59:29 -0400 (EDT) From: mariko sano Mary, Catherine, Bob and Jimmy: Thank you for your welcoming words and comments. I look forward to sharing thoughts with you. PFallo, regarding the criticism in Downbeat: The truth may sound like conceit. It is still the truth. Joni Mitchell has had a long career, much or most of it on the edge of the pop music scene. This is not a bad thing, but even through the remote association of celebrity, the comparison of her to lesser talent is inevitable. These critics cannot discuss Mitchell with her true peers because they do not know them, and if they did, they wouldn't understand them. Sadly, the truth is not always flattering. I think readers here will trust Joni Mitchell's observations on the state of popular music. Ron Peltomaa, Ontario, Canada ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:55:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: A place to archive Joni photos and articles With all due respect, there already exists on the Internet a brilliant, thorough and inspiring archive of Joni and her career. It's the late Wally Breese's: http://www.jonimitchell.com As the site itself is perfection, I'm afraid we would be crying the wind in any attempt to improve it! Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:52:06 -0400 From: "Nikki Johnson" Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat > -----Original Message----- Bob wrote: > I'm still only lukewarm towards BSN, and I do consider myself > fairly well musically informed - I think this is an "Emporer's > New Clothes" kind of statement on her part. Same here Bob...I think she definitely wanted to make a statement and say I can do what I want now, and this is what I want to do. I try to look at BSN for it's story and message b/c I think that's the part about it I enjoy the most...the thought behind that. If not for that I don't think I would be as inclined to enjoy it. I kinda wonder what she would say in normal conversation if you asked her about some of these issues where she comes across as trashing people or high on herself. How much is media interpretation? Take care Nikki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:36:47 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat >James Vincent via e-mail writes: > >>I am so tired of Joni Mitchell always making herself out to be somehow >greater >than other female artists who were also popular in her hey day. >Lighten up, Joni. >You are not some statue of stone in a park. Oh boo-hoo, it sounds like we have another die hard Judy or Joan fan! NP-New Bohemians, Live Montauk Sessions - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:56:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell Songs - --- Murphycopy@aol.com wrote: > All this talk about Kathie Lee Gifford's unfortunate > cover of "Circle Game" > got me thinking... So without further ado, ladies > and gentlemen, here's > today's Top Ten List... > > (SFX: DRUMROLL) > > The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell > Songs Anyone Could Ever > Imagine... > This is very funny! and witty too - you've managed to encapsulate just about *every* controversial issue that has come up on this list in the last few weeks to a month - there's something for everyone there! When I first heard "Not to blame" I thought it WAS about OJ - but then I realized the timing was off. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:01:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat Just to put Joni's comments into perspective, point your browsers at: www.theworld.org Click on the RealAudio link for yesterday's show (6-20-2000) on NPR, and fast-forward to the story they did on the Vivandi/Seagram's merger at the very end ... there you will be treated to DJ Alligator Project - -- who, if the new mega-music giant has it's way -- will be the future of pop music. Then you tell me how good BSN sounds, and whether or not you still think Joni Mitchell ever lies! Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell Songs - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > When I first heard "Not to blame" I thought it WAS > about OJ - but then I realized the timing was off. > Silly rabbit! Everyone knows "Not To Blame" is about Jackson Browne. And now you'll pardon me whilst I retire to my foxhole! ;-D Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 21 14:16:33 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat <> And since I've heard the live stuff, I have to say I'm excited about her next project, to hear the studio versions of the jazzed-up orchestrated "older" material. A song like "Judgement of the Moon & Stars" will work well with the full symphonic enhancement, while "Be Cool" will sound SO much better with a more subtle accompaniment, letting it swing a bit. I hope she'll be a little more creative in her coloring of the songs! Less is sometimes more, Joni! And of course, there's always the anticipation of wondering what else she's going to re-work! Bob NP: Tracy Chapman, "New Beginning" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:19:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: www.rollingstone.com trashes joni - --- Sara * wrote: > Hey Harper Lou~ > Sorry that this is a little late, but I have > been busy and trying to > catch up on all the messages that I have not yet > read - what a task! Well, > yes at times I too get discouraged by today's youth. > I am a part of this > generation, and I cannot say that I am overly proud > of that at times. But > you have to remember, not every young person today > is like the people on the > Rolling Stone message board or like your drummer > friend. Let me just chime in here and say "Brava, Sara!" You sound like a wonderful young person and I can safely add that I know many, many young people who are lovely human beings with a great deal of social conscience and I truly believe that these outnumber the boors by a long shot. Unfortunately it seems that the boors get more notice - because they're louder, because they're violent, because they "make news" - after all, who wants to read "good news" stories in the paper when you can read about horrific murders and accidents and terrible acts of violence? Just using my own family - my 2 kids and my many nieces and nephews - as an example, I can truly tell you that ALL of them are good and caring people. The worst I know of that any of them has done is that one of my nephews (aged 15) was picked up by the cops for possession of marijuana and for "trespassing" - he and his friends got caught smoking dope at a shopping plaza after hours. In his defense, he's a lovely kid, but too easily influenced by others - he's not an instigator of trouble, but tends to be more of a follower. And, his 13-yr old sister got picked up for shoplifting. In her defense, she is one of the sweetest kids you could ever hope to meet - always empathetic towards others, never got in trouble for anything and, when asked why she did it, didn't know! The day before she had had surgery involving general anaesthetic and my sister is convinced that she was still out of it from this. Add to that that her grandfather (my Dad) had just died suddenly and you can see that the kid was going through a rough time and perhaps acted totally out of character. Fortunately in their community, they deal with these types of crimes in what I think is a very humane way - they attend a "healing circle", where the kid talks to members of the community about what they did and what they can do to make amends, and then, the group decides on an appropriate community service by way of "atonement". Louis, I really hope that this incident with the dog was reported to the Humane Society - this has been bothering me all night - honest to God, I couldn't sleep! I hate to see animals abused and these people really need to be taken to task for this kind of behaviour. I've read recently that in some communities, they will no longer refer to people as "owners" of pets, but rather as "guardians", so that the animal is no longer your "property" but is under your protection, as they deserve to be. Chalk one up for animal rights! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:27:01 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Top Ten Horrific Covers >>The Top Ten Most Horrific Covers of Joni Mitchell Songs Anyone Could Ever Imagine...>> This was hilarious!!! I loved it!! How about: "I Don't Know Where I Stand" and "The Same Situation" by Al Gore and George W. Bush? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:24:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni and judy - --- Joni Fan wrote: > Don Rowe wrote: > >Judy herself mailed a list member (her e-mail was > >forwarded to the jmdl), and put that nasty little > >rumor to rest in some of the most stunningly > beautiful > >language and phrasing I've ever had the pleasure to > >read. Judy Collins continues to admire Joni I don't like to sound *too* cynical, but I also sent an e-mail to Judy Collins and got a lovely answer from her. I'm not sure I totally believe that it is really Judy responding. I don't think she'd have time to respond to every individual e-mail she gets (maybe she does, who knows?) I think it's more likely a staff of people who work on her behalf - if they're really good at what they do, they can use her "voice" in responding and would be hired on that basis - they'd have to be empathetic and would have to somehow convey Judy's personality. I hate to burst anyone's balloon, but my job is managing a correspondence unit that responds to letters addressed to a cabinet minister. I know our minister reads all the letters and signs them all personally, but she doesn't prepare the responses herself. And she's probably somewhat unusual in that she actually DOES read all of them and DOES sign them personally - others that I know of have a "signing wheel" or "autopen" that their staff use to "sign" their letters, and the minister him/herself never sees most of them. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:34:01 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: www.rollingstone.com trashes joni Hi Catherine, Let the rollingstone punks belittle anyone they want. I've determined that the word "belittle" is very aptly named. The more you belittle, the more little you be. (My new philosophy for the week.) Sorry to have upset you with the report of the partiers who abused the dog. It went through my veins like vinegar and salt, too. But, sadly, I didn't have enough personal observation to report it to the Humane Society. I only know the first names or nicknames of some of the people. Obviously, none of the other partiers felt inclined to report it either. I haven't been able to deal with any of that crowd since. I even skipped my favorite open mic session Tuesday, because people from that party would be there. I was afraid that if someone would have started telling me about the dog, I would have waxed spastic. Thanks for your response. I know some great kids, too. And come to think of it, when I was a kid, I knew some really mean ones. So it's just human nature. I've found that listening to a Joni Mitchell CD or two, having a nice dinner, and sleeping a full night helps cure general despondency about the way of the world. So, I'm more relaxed about things, but I'm still... Wondering about inhumanity, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:48:47 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: joni and judy Catherine McKay wrote:I don't like to sound *too* cynical, but I also sent > an e-mail to Judy Collins and got a lovely answer from > her. I'm not sure I totally believe that it is really > Judy responding. I don't think she'd have time to > respond to every individual e-mail she gets (maybe she > does, who knows?) I think it's more likely a staff of I'm sure it is her. Before e-mail she sent me several letters that were in her hand. When I've met her on a few occasions she has commented on the content. Many others , like Janis Ian and Betty Buckley have also responded to me personally. BTW, Judy's husband Louis is an architect in NYC and is designing the new Museum of American Folk Music (gratis). Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:56:26 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat Now, now. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean its bad. I don't think its very productive to compare something like Both Sides Now to a dance track. The two have very little to do with each other. I happen to like dance music (I had not hear DJ Alligator Project, though), but I don't hold it in the same place that I do other things. BNS and DJ Alligator Project serve different purposes. Reuben >From: Don Rowe >Reply-To: Don Rowe >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:01:12 -0700 (PDT) > >Just to put Joni's comments into perspective, point >your browsers at: > >www.theworld.org > >Click on the RealAudio link for yesterday's show >(6-20-2000) on NPR, and fast-forward to the story they >did on the Vivandi/Seagram's merger at the very end >... there you will be treated to DJ Alligator Project >-- who, if the new mega-music giant has it's way -- >will be the future of pop music. > >Then you tell me how good BSN sounds, and whether or >not you still think Joni Mitchell ever lies! > >Don Rowe > >===== >"I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are >others hiding history from ME." > >-- Shelby Foote > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:04:06 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: joni and judy In a message dated 6/21/00 2:43:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca writes: << I don't like to sound *too* cynical, but I also sent an e-mail to Judy Collins and got a lovely answer from her. I'm not sure I totally believe that it is really Judy responding. I don't think she'd have time to respond to every individual e-mail she gets (maybe she does, who knows?) I think it's more likely a staff of people who work on her behalf - if they're really good at what they do, they can use her "voice" in responding and would be hired on that basis - they'd have to be empathetic and would have to somehow convey Judy's personality. >> My lover has dealt with Judy's assistants and whenever they correspond, they sign their names. I know that he has often encountered delays in hearing back from her when she is traveling. I have heard Judy talk about having trouble sleeping and staying up at nights on the computer. I think that she is actually responding--the response that I read on the list does sound like her "voice." Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:12:31 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat Obviously, the letter-writers quoted from DOWNBEAT were unhappy with JM's comments (and perhaps her in general). But how does that qualify as "bashing?" IMO, "bashing" would ocur when 100 letters in praise of JM arrived at DOWNBEAT and the editors chose (therein the bash) to reprint the only two negative ones. DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:15:49 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: joni and judy Aside from such remembrances of listening to Hejira while fighting for sobriety, and crying at the beauty of Joni's early songs while being with her in her little Chelsea apartment, what convinces me most that the letter I received from Judy was, in fact, written by her, was the misspelling of the word "dissent" (she acknowledged not knowing the correct spelling by her insertion of "sp?") and some of the sentence structures she used, which I don't believe would have been used by someone hired for the expressed purpose of corresponding on her behalf. It was a heartfelt "first draft," I'm almost certain, by the lady herself. "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:19:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: joni bashing in downbeat - --- Reuben Bell wrote: > Now, now. Just because you don't like it doesn't > mean its bad. > BSN and DJ Alligator > Project serve different purposes. > Oh this isn't bad *just* because I don't like it. ;-) I agree, dance music's one thing, classic torch songs another. But there are a lot of not-so-great torch songs that were every bit as popular as the selections Joni chose for BSN -- and today the world is awash in software generated compu-swill like this guy's, when there's plenty of terrific dance music out there being played by real musicians that's being ignored. That was Joni's point, I think, at it's core -- and the reason for my using this example as context for her comments. Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:59:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat - --- PFallo@aol.com wrote: > in the july issue of downbeat that i just received > today, it seems that > article didn't go over so well with some readers. in > the chords & discords > feature (letters to the editor), two readers wrote > in, apparently having > gotten a very negative impression of joni from that > article. i'll reprint > their letters below. please don't shoot the > messenger. > > phil > p.s. i'll get the hanging tree ready. > > Richard Thurston from Seattle writes: > > >I have a suggestion for a new category in your > annual Readers Poll: Egoist > of the >Year. I doubt that anyone you may interview > between now and Dec. 31 > will surpass >Joni Mitchell for her display of > conceited self-absorbtion in > the May 2000 issue. > James Vincent via e-mail writes: > > >I am so tired of Joni Mitchell always making > herself out to be somehow > greater >than other female artists who were also > popular in her hey day. > Lighten up, Joni. >You are not some statue of stone > in a park. All I can say to this is that there are a number of people *out there* who view everything that Joni does as some kind of ego trip. They see her as full of herself, in love with herself, making herself out to be better than... and so on. This has probably been the case since Day 1. While I can understand their saying this kind of thing if they knew only a little bit about her and perhaps heard or read an interview with her, where she has (no doubt) been baited into making rude remarks about other artists, or by reading the liner notes on BSN (which I think are *a bit much* myself, but I blame it all on Klein!) I truly believe these people *just don't get it*. I've never heard any "diva" stories about Joni. Yes, she's a perfectionist and maybe wants things a certain way, and she wants to be in control of her own work (why not?), but I've never heard any temper-tantrum stories of the kind you hear about other performers (only red jelly-beans - take all the black ones out! Only Evian water, none of your other bottled waters! and so on) Joni IS opinionated and sure of herself, but conceited? I don't think so - I've heard too many "hugging" stories about her, and she comes across as very warm and the kind of person you'd be able to yak with at the kitchen table. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:12:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #345 - --- TIKIMOON007@aol.com wrote: > Hello everyone! I am really excited that I have > joined the list. I have > been reading a lot of wonderful things from a lot of > wonderful people. I had > a shy start at first but i think i will be ok. Take > Care > Welcome Stacy and anyone I've missed. I'll tell you what I told another new lister - if you hesitate about sending an e-mail, you may feel shy about ever doing it. So just jump in there, with both feet, or head first, whatever works for you. Nothing you say could possibly be any worse than anything anyone else has to say! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:20:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat - --- Catherine McKay wrote: > , or by reading the liner notes on BSN > (which I think are *a bit much* myself, but I blame > it > all on Klein!) But of course you do my dear. I'm the great whipping boy -- synths and perms, production, post-production and now an obviously cheeky bit of liner notation. I should've known I'd end up the fall guy for this. You know, for as dour as Joni claims I am, god forfend I try my hand at a little humor! Does Quincy have to put up with this abuse? Does Bob Clearmountain or Bob Ludwig? You think Bill Orbit endures these kinds of slings and arrows? Or Trevor Horn? Or any other producer you care to name ... Okay, so Lindsay Buckingham, Rupert Hine and I have swapped some stories ... maybe if I just stood very quietly in the corner ... Larry Klein __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:40:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat - --- Don Rowe wrote: > > --- Catherine McKay > wrote: > > > , or by reading the liner notes on BSN > > (which I think are *a bit much* myself, but I > blame > > it > > all on Klein!) > > But of course you do my dear. I'm the great > whipping > boy -- Ha! I was hoping to draw out Mr Klein - you reacted far more quickly than I would have guessed, especially since my snide remarks were buried (between parentheses) in the middle of a long paragraph. You can't fool Klein, that's for sure! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:42:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: joni and judy - --- "James L. Leonard" wrote: >what convinces > me most that the letter > I received from Judy was, in fact, written by her, > was the misspelling of > the word "dissent" (she acknowledged not knowing the > correct spelling by her > insertion of "sp?") and some of the sentence > structures she used, which I > don't believe would have been used by someone hired > for the expressed > purpose of corresponding on her behalf. It was a > heartfelt "first draft," > I'm almost certain, by the lady herself. Either that or a *really good* fake! Sorry, I couldn't resist saying that, but I've been convinced it was the REAL Judy Collins and not just another of Don Rowe's alter egos! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:50:44 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: joni and judy I can also attest to this. She's real. And very sweet. Reuben >From: Jerry Notaro >I'm sure it is her. Before e-mail she sent me several letters that were >in her hand. When I've met her on a few occasions she has commented on >the content. Many others , like Janis Ian and Betty Buckley have also >responded to me personally. BTW, Judy's husband Louis is an architect in >NYC and is designing the new Museum of American Folk Music (gratis). > >Jerry > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:44:55 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat I apologize for letting this one get sent. I had it in my out box and when I checked my mail it got sent after I decided not to send it. I hope I didn't offend anyone and I'm sorry. >Oh boo-hoo, it sounds like we have another die hard Judy or Joan fan! - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:47:40 EDT From: PFallo@aol.com Subject: Re: joni bashing in downbeat In a message dated 6/21/00 3:12:31 PM, Dflahm writes: << Obviously, the letter-writers quoted from DOWNBEAT were unhappy with JM's comments (and perhaps her in general). But how does that qualify as "bashing?" IMO, "bashing" would ocur when 100 letters in praise of JM arrived at DOWNBEAT and the editors chose (therein the bash) to reprint the only two negative ones. >> david, the use of the word "bash" may have been a bit extreme, but at one in the morning it did "seem" like a bash to me. nonetheless, i was surprised that downbeat choose to print two negative responses and no positive ones to the joni article. obviously i have no idea how many positive ones there were. by printing the two negative responses, was downbeat publishing a representative cross-section of the responses or was the magazine itself making an editorial response itself to the interview? phil ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:59:40 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Who Todays Kids really are U.S. teens today prefer sex, drugs and the Net-poll Updated 5:45 PM ET June 21, 2000 By Timna Tanners LOS ANGELES, (Reuters) - U.S. kids these days are not only more jaded than their parents -- familiar with handgun violence and drug abuse -- but also savvier in cyberspace and more relaxed with people of other races, according to a CBS News poll that tracked teens through four years of high school. While adults love to tell of braving high snow to get to school or enduring Depression-era hardships, the survey released this week suggests that today's high school graduates do not necessarily have easier teen years than their parents. In fact, 53 percent of teens said they have had to grow up faster than their parents. Nine out of 10 in the CBS poll reporting dealing with the death of a relative or friend, drug or alcohol abuse of someone close to them, divorce, accident, illness or natural disaster. The CBS poll was conducted among more than 2,300 U.S. high school students across the country in the graduating class of 2000. The surveys started four years ago when the class entered high school. The results will be published on the Internet by Simon & Schuster. Despite a presidential impeachment and teen violence increasingly making the front pages, the polled students became more and more optimistic during their high school years. At least 65 percent of the students said they expected their lives will be better than those of their parents. That optimism has grown in recent years amid a booming U.S. economy. Ninety-six percent of those polled said they felt safe at school, even though the memory of last year's shooting at Columbine High School was still fresh in people's memory. The survey reported that that drug and alcohol use was on the rise, with 61 percent of seniors polled said they drink alcohol and 18 percent saying they have tried marijuana. Fourteen percent were regular cigarette smokers, and 47 percent had tried a cigarette. About 50 percent of the graduating seniors said they had had sex, up from previous years, and 18 percent said they were not virgins when they entered high school. Just 18 percent of the senior class of 1997 reported having had sex. Race relations appeared to have progressed, with 72 percent of students saying they had a close friend of another race and 41 percent having dated someone of another race. Some 92 percent of graduating seniors said they used a computer regularly and 84 percent said they used the Internet. While their grandparents perhaps saw the telephone as a novelty, 35 percent of students said they had a mobile phone. Some 26 percent had pagers and 10 percent had a hand-held computing device. High-school-age kids were also more accepting of divorce, the poll said, and children whose parents had divorced were likely to say the separation was better than staying together for the children. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:57:46 -0700 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: catman Ada wrote:- > is everything alright with catman? he's not in some "2 grey rooms" case i > hope so just tell me he's ok. Well, he *is* OK, but he's not on the list at the moment, having left due to the "Colin's facist statement" thread. I'm not surprised actually. I *am* pretty f*****g upset, though, that due to someone so blatantly getting it wrong about him, he's felt the need to leave. We're all the poorer for it, him included. We *all* loose. A plague on both your houses. - --Chris (about 30 miles down the road from Colin, but feeling further away for the lack of his presence here) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #259 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?