From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #248 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, June 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 248 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Metheny/G + Aimee Mann [Catherine ] Re: the other two [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: mermaid cafe [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Brian Blade & Joni in REQUEST magazine Review [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: the other two (again) ["P. Henry" ] Esalen in '68 ["P. Henry" ] Metheny/G & Aimee Mann ["Peg Eves" ] Re: Lower Levels of Hell [Heather ] Fred Simon ["John Stilwell" ] Joni in Maclean's [Catherine McKay ] Re: Brian Blade Daniel Lanois ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann [Catherine ] Re: Brian Blade Daniel Lanois [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: Lower Levels of Hell/Nyro ["Peg Eves" ] Esalen in '68 [Steve Dulson ] Sheryl Crow FYI SJC [Howard Motyl ] RE: Lower Levels of Hell ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Lower Levels of Hell ["cassy" ] Only One video w/ Joni [Bounced Message ] Joni Headlines in CONSCIOUS CHOICE journal [Bounced Message ] Joni and Steve [Bounced Message ] Re: Only One video w/ Joni [Don Rowe ] RE: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann ["Peg Eves" ] William Shatner Sings........ [Louis Lynch ] An assignment ["Pitassi, Mary" ] want to get off this list. [Lrhva@aol.com] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: Joni and Steve [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni and Steve (md2) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Only One video w/ Joni ["Ken (slarty)" ] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: William Shatner Sings........ [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: W.S. Sings or "Slouching Towards Badtaste" ["Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Metheny/G + Aimee Mann Kakki wrote > For the record, I don't mind at all when Joni skewers the music biz > generally but when she names names, I also cringe. She and Metheny should > be above that kind of thing. > In yet another moment of list convergence, as I was listening to the Aimee Mann Fresh Air interview this afternoon on NPR--(thanks Brian Gross for the heads up; know I would have missed it otherwise)-- kept thinking of the Metheny/G thread, and also of our beloved Joan's tendency, as Kakki notes, to take a few shots at the biz and some individuals in it. Even if those shot are well deserved, and even if, as Catherine in Toronto rightly pointed out, the interviewer is digging for dirt and setting them up to say something cutting, I'm with Kakki, the vitriol is sometimes hard to take. Anyway, my main point is that I was tremendously impressed with Ms. Mann. The interviewer Terry Gross, who is three or four cuts above the average host, gently opened the door on several occasions for Aimee to dump on the music biz or specific people, and Mann never took the bait, such as it was. IMHO, Aimee Mann has earned the right to be as angry and bitter about the music biz as anyone--Joni included. I'm not trying to rap on Joni--I think she's reacting like most normal humans would, given her experiences, but I was downright proud of how careful Aimee Mann was not to go down that path, and how careful she was about protecting her own and her loved ones' privacy. Yet another reason why my cd player is currently only accepting discs by Aimee (and Joni and Bjork) (Yes, having one of those musical phases . . .) Here's to the high road! Catherine T. exiled in AZ np: Sugarcubes--Birthday ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:20:15 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: the other two I think the guy might be John Phillips. If he was wearing a silly hat and kaftan I'd be certain. I wonder what they're singing. The girl is not Mimi. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:21:02 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: mermaid cafe My first vinyl copy had the line as "beneath the mantle of the moon". Luckily for Greek tourism that line didn't stick. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 21:30:10 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO Laura wrote: >Good Argument Hell..........I don't think I've >ever seen Carole King with a guitar! Altho, >she does play guitar on some of her albums I actually didn't make my argument very well, but I was rambling, and I thought I'd said quite enough! What I should have said is that I don't think she was playing the guitar that early in her career. I know she does now - although I've heard her call her style "Neanderthal"! I have got a video of one of her concerts, interspersed with interviews, etc. and she plays guitar on Smackwater Jack, and a few others, but she just strums it - no picking or more intricate playing. Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:49:11 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Brian Blade & Joni in REQUEST magazine Review Found this review in REQUEST magazine ........it's a FREE monthly magazine found at Sam Goody music store. Great 5x7 picture of Brian Blade holding his drumsticks inside the June 2000 issue (picture of the group 'NSync on the cover) Joni's mentioned in each paragraph. Brian Blade Fellowship Perceptual (Blue Note) To get the gig as Joni Mitchell's drummer, you'd have to display unusual versatility and a courage to break convention using a soft touch but a strong vision. That was no problem for Brian Blade. Unlike many who follow closely in bebop's large footprints, Brian Blade (who's also played with Joshua Redman's band) and his group make luminescent soft-bop music. While the late hard-bop drum titan Art Blakey stoked bonfires of rhythm that crackled and roared, Blade's beats are kindling for compositions that burn with a muted glow like votive flames. The Fellowship's self-titled 1998 debut emitted the atmospheric haze common to Daniel Lanois productions. this time Lanois, who was Blade's connection to Mitchell, is on board as a second guitarist to new member (and rising star) Kurt Rosenwinkel, and as second pedal-steel guitarist to Dave Easley. Their background harmonies hover like apparitions, and join with saxophonists Myron Walden and Melvin Butler for dreamlike passages that gradually rustle into crescendos of surprising passion. Tunes such as 'Evinrude-Fifty (Trembling)', about Blade's boyhood boat rides with his father in Louisiana, and the three-part suite "Variations of a Bloodline" are a progression of resonant musical details that unfold with the narrative arc of masterful short stories. Walden's bass clarinet turns the 66-second "The Sunday Boys" into something akin to a Gregorian chant, and Mitchell guests with her tremulous vocal on "Steadfast." Inevitably, the focus returns to Blade, who lightly prances over his snare drum and ride cymbal like a more pacifistic incarnation of Elvin Jones. -Britt Robson Their website is at http://www.requestmagazine.com I couldn't find the June Reviews online. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:10:44 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? Fred wrote: >It's simply not a matter, in this case, of Gorelick's creativity seeming bad >to some people, but of his having no creativity at all, and, in fact, >stealing someone else's, and not just anyone else, but perhaps that of the >single greatest musician in all of jazz, certainly one of the top few. Of >course Gorelick has the right to make his own lousy music, but he has >absolutely no right to do this, and that is what is drawing Metheny's public >ire. Thought I'd jump on the band-wagon too. I agree that Kenny G is awful - I've never liked his music - and it's advertised here in the same timeslots as incontinence pants, Viagra, and arthritis cream, which indicates the kind of market they're aiming for. OK, I might be exaggerating a little, but I don't think he's ever going to appeal to the "kids". But while I personally can't stand his music, and what he's done to the Louis Armstrong track (I haven't heard/seen it, but it sounds like blasphemy), I have to defend his right to play "jazz" if that's what he wants to call it. It might also be timely to repost what Joni said in Musician Magazine when Rickee Lee Jones accused her of selling herself as a jazz artist, when she "wasn't" in Rickee Lee's opinion (originally posted to the list by John Noble): Joni to Rickie When I was a kid there was a time when Geraldine Campbell chased me with a wood hatchet whenever I passed her house. "This is my sidewalk-this is my sidewalk!" she would chant brandishing the hatchet and glowering and pouting ferociously. Rickie Lee-jazz, too, is a public sidewalk-no matter how near you live to it, it belongs to the city and anyone it pleases-it was there before you were born and it will be there long after you move away. "It's a free world-Geraldine!"-I used to say-tipping my beret. Joni Mitchell Los Angeles, CA Hope this doesn't annoy anyone, but despite how badly anyone (including myself) thinks Kenny G's jazz is, he's still allowed to play it, which is what Fred was saying anyway, and I'm rambling again, sorry. Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 22:19:55 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell Rev Vince wrote: >then certainly at the front table, on the dais, of heaven, will be among >others, Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, John Lennon, Aretha >Franklin, Otis Redding, Mozart, Verdi, Glenn Miller, Louis Armstrong, >Ethel Waters, Puccini, and Bach, and the Aleutian Island throat singers. At first I thought this post was a dig at me - I must have said something REALLY awful to evoke this kind of response. Then I realised it wasn't (note to self: not EVERYthing is about you)! I would add Shona Laing, Stephen Stills and Bonnie Raitt to the list above, and possibly Jim Morrison, although he's probably in that other place, having his nether-regions poked by little demons with sharp sticks (and probably enjoying it). >The lowest level of hell is reserved for Kenny G, Zamphere on the pan >flute, Kenny Rogers, Lionel Ritchie, Richard Harris (McArthurs Park will >do that to a guy) and Bobby McFarrin (now that he has sold the rights to >Don't Worry, Be Happy to the singing plastic bass fish wall mount that >is inflicting bars and homes everywhere).. Add The Spice Girls, Michael Bolton and New Kids On The Block (who started this whole "5 boys in one room - hey, we're a rock group!" thing). And while we're at it, let's throw in the guys who invented toupee's, zip-up/velcro shoes and platform sneakers. Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:54:48 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: the other two (again) (resending this as it did not post completely in the digest) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:57:19 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: the other two the woman (definitely) is Mimi Farina, Joan Baez' sister... the guy is most definately NOT John Kay, (way too tall) but may possibly be Mimi's husband Richard who wrote a great song called "Pack Up Your Sorrows" and authored the book "Been Down So Long, It Looks Like Up To Me". pat ps - btw, those pics are all 'thumbnail' style... if you clik on them you get the big one... here's the one he took of Mimi: http://www2.cea.edu/robert/MimiFarinia.JPEG >>Anyone know who the other two are? http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.htmlOkay Paul, I'm guessing..........John Kay from Steppenwolf (sure looks like him!! LOL) and that looks like the profile of Ms. Carole King....the original BORN TO BE WILD group! Anyone else??? Anyone? Anyone? Laura>> Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 05:31:18 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Esalen in '68 steve shared: >>Paul C. wrote: PS. And, to up the JC a bit, another Altman pic of Joni at Esalen in '68 with Judy and Joan. http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html Anyone know who the other two are?>> >I will make a guess that the guy is Jeffrey Shurtleaf (sp?), who was Joan's regular back-up guitarist then. The other woman???> steve, I think you're right about this one... makes a heck of a lot more sense than my guess that it's Richard Farina, seeing as it looks nothing like him and also because I believe that by the time this pic was shot, Mimi was a widow. pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:14:48 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann . . .. > > Peg queries: I so much do not want to insult anyone. I can only say what I feel in earnest and hope my opinion is recieved with forbearance and tolerance. Some folks said: The vitriol is sometimes hard to take. She and Metheny > should > > be above that kind of thing Peg replies: But wait a second. Above what kind of thing exactly? Bare with me kiddos. If they can take the shit can't we take the "vitriol". How is it "hard to take"? It's not like these artists are publishing newsletters trashing people and companies. Should they be above expressing their whole emotional truth when ASKED! We all know the enormous frustration and pain Joni has endured. I find her virulence, frankness, names and all(people SHOULD BE held accountable and taken to task and how can they be if no names are told?), perfectly appropriate and in proportion to her experience . Hell, these artists have been insulted, offended! on various fronts. If we ask them shouldn't we expect them to tell us? I do not see this as a flaw in the process. I find it utterly natural. The truth ain't always gracious , sophisticated, and professional sounding! . No one is ever "above" the facts of their feelings nor above expressing them completely - able or desiring to to supress negativity. Wouldn't being above that be below the truth? I know we all agree that ART is a place where we are FREE to be pretty or UGLY. Tact & strategic speeches are the stuff of the corporate, secondary world. In the NATURAL, primary world we tell the whole truth. Why be above that? So we appear to "be cool"? Keep everything tidy? Forthright, direct statement often offends people who allow a space in their psyche for that response and it takes guts to express yourself honestly when you know that. When the opinions, feelings in question are basic and heartfelt - not bullshit- then I am proud of people who don't sugarcoat their expression for the sake of social comfort levels. There is a difference between trashing people arbitrarily and responding honestly to experience. Someone else said: > , but I was downright proud of how careful Aimee > Mann was not to go down that path, > > Peg Replies: What path? (I heards the interview)And don't you wonder how restrained she would have been had she been in the business as long as Joni? (I think she is an amazing songwriter.) > Am I off the wall with this? Or what? Peg> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:47:19 -0400 From: Heather Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell YES! Dear Laura .... I was also very saddened by her passing. Who can forget all those soulful songs. Laura and Joni were my constant stars through my youth. ... what the Devil doesn't know is that the Devil can't stay, doesn't know he's seen his day (Luckie) Heather - ('Emily you ornament the earth for me' - one of Laura's most moving lines for me) At 01:05 AM 6/14/00 -0400, Gary Zack wrote: >Let's hear it for Laura Nyro!! My black angel, second in my book only >to Joni! I was devastated when she passed away. She was wonderful! >Thanks for mentioning such an underrated wonderful talent! > >Gary (protea man) > >...meet me Captain St. Lucifer, darling I'll be there, dont you know? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:00:46 GMT From: "John Stilwell" Subject: Fred Simon Fred, I'd just like to state publicly that I share your opinions on bootlegging and Metheny's comments. Louis Armstrong is very sacred ground!!!! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 09:25:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Joni in Maclean's Arrived home yesterday to find the June 19 edition of Maclean's ("Canada's weekly newsmagazine")... and voila - a story on Joni's art show in Saskatoon! Here is the URL: http://www.macleans.ca/pub-doc/2000/06/19/Art/35908.shtml Here's an interesting paragraph. Who is this mysterious New Oreanian, I wonder... ;) "Now, the Saskatoon exhibition promises to give new exposure to another side of Mitchell's talent. And her scheduled homecoming is already causing a stir. Hebert is bracing for an opening-night crowd of up to 8,000, about 10 times the normal turnout. Even before formally publicizing the event, he had received e-mails and letters from Mitchell fans as far away as Britain and Australia. Among them was a man from New Orleans who wrote that "he didn't know where or what Saskatoon was, but he was coming." " It's gotta be Paz. I hope you've figured out where S'toon is by now! There are links to the Mendel gallery and to jonimitchell.com at the bottom. As with the Globe and Mail article, while there are colour pictures in hard copy, these aren't on the website. Is it worth my copying the article and posting it to the list? ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 07:15:33 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: Brian Blade Daniel Lanois What is Joni's connection to Daniel Lanois? Reuben >The Fellowship's self-titled 1998 debut emitted the atmospheric haze >common to Daniel Lanois productions. this time Lanois, who was Blade's >connection to Mitchell, is on board as a second guitarist to new member >(and rising star) Kurt Rosenwinkel, and as second pedal-steel guitarist >to Dave Easley. Their background harmonies hover like apparitions, and >join with saxophonists Myron Walden and Melvin Butler for dreamlike >passages that gradually rustle into crescendos of surprising passion. > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:47:42 -0700 From: Catherine Subject: Re: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann Peg Eves wrote: > Peg replies: > But wait a second. Above what kind of thing exactly? Bare with me kiddos. > If they can take the shit can't we take the "vitriol". How is it "hard to > take"? It's not like these artists are publishing newsletters trashing > people and companies. Should they be above expressing their whole emotional > truth when ASKED! We all know the enormous frustration and pain Joni has > endured. I find her virulence, frankness, names and all(people SHOULD BE > held accountable and taken to task and how can they be if no names are > told?), perfectly appropriate and in proportion to her experience . Hell, > these artists have been insulted, offended! on various fronts. If we ask > them shouldn't we expect them to tell us? IMO, not necessarily. I remember reading an article (sometime in 98, I think--its probably in the archives on the jmdl site) in which Joni herself admits that she has gotten a rep for taking potshots at other artists, and that interviewers/journalists try to set up memorable, negative quotes from her, and she quite explicitly tells the journalist that she'd rather talk about who she likes rather than who she doesn't because she didn't want to perpetuate that reputation. And I do want to emphasize again that I'm not knocking Joni for having those feelings--I have no way of beginning to comprehend the struggles she has and the garbage she's had to endure. As I mentioned in my original post, I think she is responding to her sitaution like any sensitive human being would. I'm just delirously grateful that she continues to paint and perform and write music in spite of it all. I'm not rying to judge her--I'd probably mouth off in worse ways if it were me. But I think she has a body of work that condemns the current radio mediocrity far louder than any quote she might give a journalist, and that's where my feeling that she ought to be "above" taking potshots comes from. Just my personal reaction. > I do not see this as a flaw in the > process. I find it utterly natural. The truth ain't always gracious , > sophisticated, and professional sounding! . > No one is ever "above" the facts of their feelings nor above expressing > them completely - able or desiring to to supress negativity. Wouldn't being > above that be below the truth? I know we all agree that ART is a place > where we are FREE to be pretty or UGLY. Tact & strategic speeches are the > stuff of the corporate, secondary world. In the NATURAL, primary world we > tell the whole truth. Why be above that? So we appear to "be cool"? Keep > everything tidy? Forthright, direct statement often offends people who > allow a space in their psyche for that response and it takes guts to express > yourself honestly when you know that. When the opinions, feelings in > question are basic and heartfelt - not bullshit- then I am proud of people > who don't sugarcoat their expression for the sake of social comfort levels. > There is a difference between trashing people arbitrarily and responding > honestly to experience. I agree with that to an extent--I have no problem with what she has "said" in her art, in her songs, when she raps on the the music business, from FTR up through TTT, even when she appears to take aim at individuals (as in "Not to Blame" or "Lead Balloon"). More power to her! Its just that outside of the realm where she has control over her expression -in the press, specifically- when some journalist invites her to make disparaging remarks about Jewel or Alanis Morrisette or Kurt Cobain, and she takes the bait, and then it ends up in print as a one line (maybe out of context) zinger, I don't think that serves her very well. And its happened often enough that even she appears to realize this. > Someone else said: > > , but I was downright proud of how careful Aimee > > Mann was not to go down that path, > > > > Peg Replies: > > What path? (I heards the interview)And don't you wonder how restrained she > would have been had she been in the business as long as Joni? (I think she > is an amazing songwriter.) Well, my thinking on this is that by the time Joni was Aimee Mann's age (early 40s?), she had a string of pop hits, massive radio play, huge record sales, etc., and then *chose* to purse a musical path away from the pop mainstream which cost her in terms of exposure and sales. She hadn't been seriously screwed over by one record label after another and forced to resort to buying back her own albums and peddling them herself. I certainly appreciate that Joni has had tremendous struggles which are probably equally difficult in their own way, and I'm not trying to say that one is more deserving of sympathy than the other, just that Aimee Mann has very quickly earned the right to sit at the table of complaint-with anybody. So when I was listening to the Aimee Mann interview, it occurred to me that here was a woman who has every right to be bitter and let loose on the industry and and most likely specific people as well, but she didn't (Though to be fair, she *has* in her art, too. "I'm With Stupid" is supposed to be about a certain record exec). I just thought that given her experience, she was very restrained and upbeat--it was heartening to me to hear that she seems to be in a pretty good place in spite of having been run through the music mill a few times. Just my .02 Catherine T. in az ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 14 10:51:26 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Brian Blade Daniel Lanois <> That caught my eye too, Reuben...don't know that she has one, but I DO wish she'd let him man the boards for her next record of new material...he is simply magic in terms of the ethereal sound he can create. Bob NP: Kim Prevost & Bill Solley, "Fever" (speaking of magic sounds...) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:42:05 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Lower Levels of Hell/Nyro YES! Dear Laura .... I was also very saddened by her passing. Who can > forget all those soulful songs. > Oh yeh!! Laura Nyro. Sublime. Outstanding. What an angel. I had the pleasure and honor of producing a show of hers here in Vermont just before she passed on. Speaking of personalities - she was so smooth; she seemed to float. Lot's of St.Pauli Girl for the band if I remember right. Damn! What music! Peg > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 08:17:59 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Esalen in '68 Susan wrote: > I am inclined to believe that it >may have been Mimi (Baez's sister) and her Sir Gallahad. I know others >disagree but it makes sense to me. I disagree because I've seen Mimi perform 8 times, seen her hosting the Bread and Roses festival, have (I think) everything she's recorded, and it's NOT MIMI. :) Joan's song "Sweet Sir Galahad" was about Mimi's relationship with Myron Melvin, a San Francisco DJ to whom she was briefly married. The song celebrates Mimi's emergence from her mourning of Richard. In the movie "Festival at Big Sur" Joan sings the song to scenes of Mimi and Myron frolicking in the grass. And no, that ain't Myron in the photo either. And Pat Henry wrote: >the woman (definitely) is Mimi Farina See above, Pat. Sorry to sound vehement about this, but the Farinas are people who have loomed large in my life. Best wishes to all, ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:08:48 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Sheryl Crow FYI SJC I've been doing some Sheryl research for a possible show. In an interview, I found this quote about her musical roots and influences: >Her mother a piano teacher and her father, a lawyer, playing trumpet, Sheryl grew up surrounded by music - "at first Top 40 and Fleetwood Mac, >then the Stones, Van Morrison and Bessie Smith, and finally songwriters like Bob Dylan and Joni Mitchell," she says. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 13:16:42 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Lower Levels of Hell helen, why is everybody suddenly talking about your lower levels?????????? am i next? wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:08:29 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: Lower Levels of Hell >>I await the corrections on this.<< >(the Rev) Vince Thanks Vince this was so imaginative and interesting to read. The concept reminded me of a job I once had when I was trying to fight out of an abusive marriage. I hadn't worked in over 12 yrs and needed "just a job" to get me on the road to self-support. I took a job with a printing company on the graveyard shift stuffing circulars for $6.00 an hour; on my feet all night long, timed breaks with rude bells to remind me not to be a minute late back to my work station, side by side with all types of women, most of them with teased-up hair, too-red lipstick and tight jeans, the ever present "young country" blasting out of beat-up, vibrating speakers at full-tilt. Someone asked me one day how the job was going and I told them it was "Music Hell." Can we reserve a space on the lowest level of hell for the supervisor who assured me we each got a turn choosing the music for a night then changed the channel the minute the person who dared to choose other than "young country" went to the ladies room? Perhaps we could chain her up with headphones on and force her to listen to "Electric Africa" by Manu Dibango until she learned to appreciate music with a different sound? Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:34:43 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Only One video w/ Joni From: "Nikki Johnson" Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:26:34 -0400 Hey My friend sent this link to me and I dunno if y'all have seen this before but I figured I'd share she said well there's Don Henley w/ James Taylor and I am pretty sure Joni Mitchell! LOL I said yup sure looks and sounds like her to me:-) Scroll down toward the bottom and you'll see "James Taylor Only One Video"...click on that. http://eaglesfans.simplenet.com/fastlane/video/video.htm Nikki "Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in this world was to keep my love alive" ~ Heart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:36:16 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni Headlines in CONSCIOUS CHOICE journal From: mann@chicagonet.net Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:13:10 -0500 Found this at Borders Book Store............can also be found at Barnes & Noble and Health Food Stores. It's a free (newspaper-type) publication. The headline for this article caught my eye. CONSCIOUS CHOICE The Journal of Ecology & Natural Living May 2000 Vol. 13 No. 5 Page 24 P E S T I C I D E S Put Away That DDT, Now..... Joni Mitchell may or may not see her 1970 plea realized depending on the outcome of talks aimed at establishing a global agreement on the elimination of twelve deadly chemicals. .................... and it goes on into a two page article. This is their website http://www.consciouschoice.com/ but I could not find this article on it. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:33:58 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: burning CDs Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 20:59:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Stoy Reuben wrote: "Why do people get so bent out of shape about burning CD's? It has been the norm for years to pirate cassette recordings. Tell me that you have never owned a pirated tape copy of an album that you didn't buy. (Please accept my apologies if you really never have :) ) I personally am a marketer's dream, and can't stand to have the music without the package, but I don't think that its morally reprehensible to copy music. What is the law? I'm curious." I'm just getting back from vacation so this post may have been responded to already, but... Copying music instead of buying it IS morally reprehensible. Copying a tape (or burning a CD) for your own use-- when you already own the music in another form-- is fair use, and that is fine. If you own a CD, for example, and you only have a tape player in your car, you are free to tape your copy for listening in the car. However, the artist and the record companies receive nothing when you copy an album for which you have not paid. You are violating copyright law and are essentially stealing. Burning CDs is much worse, because unlike tapes-- which degenerate with each generation of copies-- burned CDs are exact digital duplicates of the original. The digital factor is one reason why the whole napster/gnutella thing is so dangerous. I find it repulsive and nauseating, these anarchist people who feel that they are entitled and think they have a RIGHT to free music. It's not free. It shouldn't be free (UNLESS the artist wants it to be--that's his or her prerogative). This is not meant to come down all on you, Reuben. I just have really strong opinions on the matter. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:35:28 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni and Steve Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 01:54:12 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Dear fellow listers, For a long time, I've been interested in the differences and similarities between Joni Mitchell and Stephen Sondheim. They've both had hits made popular (and, imho, misunderstood) by Judy Collins. They're both very prickly when it comes to "the biz" and neither suffers fools - or imitators - gladly. They're both innovative mavericks in popular, business-driven areas of art. Consider: Stephen Sondheim quote: "I thought I was going into 'the theatre' - I was going into show business, and I was a fool to think otherwise" Joni Mitchell quote: "I don't believe in art that only 13 people in the world can understand" Stephen Sondheim is the last enfant terrible of the Broadway musical. Joni Mitchell influences only other cutting-edge artists: the mainstream has always ignored and/or undervalued her work. Both Steve and Joni are adept at intricate rhyming, and are experts at internal rhymes. Musically, both Steve and Joni favor non-harmonic notes, especially suspended 2nds, 4ths, and 9ths. They also tend to conceptualize their music horizontally rather than vertically. Steve created Follies. Joni created The Hissing of Summer Lawns. We're talking masterpieces here. Stephen Sondheim and Joni Mitchell probably don't even listen to each others' work. But they should: you couldn't find two lyricist/composers more gifted, or two people more willing to say uncharitable things about their contemporaries. Sleep easily, Steve and Joni! Posterity will judge you, and your imaginary competitors will be lost in the dust. Joni has David Lahm, Steve has Bernadette Peters. Either way, we're all richer for it! Goodnight, y'all, and thank you to Joni and Steve for teaching me everything...... Roberto ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 10:13:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Only One video w/ Joni Wow! What a delight ... three of the top gods/goddesses in my pantheon singing one of my favorite songs ... wow! Don't miss this one folks -- what a treat! Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:58:29 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann Hey Catherine< Points well taken. I hear ya! Thanks for your thoughts. Peg: It's not like these artists are publishing newsletters trashing > > people and companies. > > I find her virulence, frankness, names and all(people > SHOULD BE > > held accountable and taken to task and how can they be if no names are > > told?), perfectly appropriate and in proportion to her > experience . fronts. If we ask > > them shouldn't we expect them to tell us? > Catherine: > IMO, not necessarily. I remember reading an article (sometime in 98, I > > Joni herself > admits that she has gotten a rep for taking potshots at other > artists, and that > interviewers/journalists try to set up memorable, negative quotes > from her, and > she quite explicitly tells the journalist that she'd rather talk > about who she > likes rather than who she doesn't because she didn't want to > perpetuate that > reputation. Peg replies: Of course. That's not creative energy, commenting on who you "don't like" but IN THE CONTEXT of a whole interview who cares if Kurt or Alanis take a hit from Joni Mitchell - that's part of being out there for them too. Theoretically,couldn't it be seen as inconsistant for all the negative commentary to dissolve as soon as an artist is out of the creative environment. I'm not saying everything an artist says is right or necessary - including Joni. I'm saying it's alright to say it. There are ALWAYS reprocussions "whether you travel the breadth of extremity or stick to some straighter line". I still say if we don't want their peaches we shouldn't shake their trees. And, Catherine I KNOW you were not knocking Joni. Your appreciation of her is obvious and a pleasure to witness. Good Thinking and Thankyou. Peg> > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:17:31 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: William Shatner Sings........ Oh my oh my oh my oh my, Now I am certain that Armageddon is upon us. And it's a damned good thing that Reverend Vince outlined the table seating arrangements in hell and heaven. Just in the nick of time, too, Vince. OK, I waxed aggressively about Pat Metheny cutting down Kenny G, and how vitriolic I thought his criticisms were. Well, somebody on this list needs to send Pat Metheny the copy of William Shatner singing Both Sides Now!!!! Kenny G won't seem half so bad in comparison. You know, everyone, there have been times that this performer has hesitated to sing a Joni song, even with the novelty of the harp to make up for any vocal shortcomings. I'm a tenor, and I fall horribly short of Joni's beautiful pitch and picture perfect voice. I've shied away from the really lovely songs because I just didn't think I did it justice! Well, if William Shatner can sing Joni Mitchell that badly, and record it to boot, the hell with it, I'm going for Banquet, Both Sides Now, Dreamland, Help Me, River AND Real Good for Free!!! Plus, I think I'll teach my dog Big Yellow Taxi and Ethiopia as well. Thank you Ken, for giving me musical hope just before the apocalypse! And, Pat Metheny, say whatever you like. I was wrong! It's OK for you to criticize anyone you want publicly, as long as you start with William Shatner!!!!! Ouch! It hurts! Turn it off! Still adaze, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:57:20 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: An assignment The article on Joni's Saskatoon exhibit, which Catherine kindly posted, ends with the following: "Mitchell, who has only sporadically exhibited her paintings, agreed to the forthcoming show in large part because it was in Saskatoon, a city she continues to view fondly. "She'll talk about her favourite pool halls and which ones had the best jukeboxes so that she could dance," marvels Hebert." OK, kids! Who among the Saskatoon-goers wants to take on the assignment of scouting out those pool halls? ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 14:29:25 EDT From: Lrhva@aol.com Subject: want to get off this list. Hi, would you please remove my name? I was only interested in hearing about any concerts. Thank you. Laura Howell. ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 14 15:04:28 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ <> This is indeed the upside to listening to Volume 4, "The Power of Cheese"...after I finished dubbing The Tokens, Anne Murray, Billy Squier, and Robert Goulet, I finalized the disc and then "previewed" it to hear how it sounded, check the levels, etc. My first thought was "My God, nobody should be timid about singing at a Jonifest after hearing this!" :~) Billy Squier basically just kind of makes up words for River, I don't think he even sings one line as it's written...and that nasally whine on top of it! Courtney Love (who I actually don't mind so much) just shrieks "BSN" while a buzzsaw guitar drones on a two-chord pattern. Leonard Nimoy joins his Enterprise deckmate with a BSN butcher of his own... Mabel Mercer also tortures BSN, sounding like Mrs. Miller (anybody remember her?). Anyway, I could go on...these are the worst imo, this one will make you appreciate EVERYTHING Joni has done. Paul, you'll be racing to DED for relief! ;~) I'll be making the official tree announcement on Vols. 3/4/5 in a couple of days.... Bob NP: Blur, "Tracy Jacks" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 15:33:44 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ In a message dated 6/14/00 3:19:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Mabel Mercer also tortures BSN, sounding like Mrs. Miller (anybody remember her?). >> Bob, I once read that Joni's favorite cover of BSN is the Mabel Mercer version. Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 15:49:45 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Steve In a message dated 6/14/00 9:51:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << Both Steve and Joni are adept at intricate rhyming, and are experts at internal rhymes. >> I know of no songwriter who rhymes less than Joni Mitchell. What is an "internal" rhyme. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 12:41:37 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Metheny/G & Aimee Mann Catherine wrote: >I'm just delirously grateful that she continues to paint and >perform and write music in spite of it all. I'm not trying to >judge her--I'd probably mouth off in worse ways if it were >me. But I think she has a body of work that condemns the >current radio mediocrity far louder than any quote she might >give a journalist, and that's where my feeling that she ought >to be "above" taking potshots comes from. Just my >personal reaction. And mine, too. When I read harsh, trashing remarks (vs. *constructive* criticism) in the press coming from anyone who has risen to the top of their chosen field, it gives me this uneasy image of a straight A, teenage student taunting and publically humiliating someone with a learning disability, or a star athelete bullying someone with a physical disability. Those gifted ones who have acheived so much should not stoop to publically trashing those who may not have been as blessed with talent or achieved as much as they have. What is the point? To "purify" the arts and eliminate those who one arbitrarily decides is not worthy enough to belong to the "club"? To hound those who are not as great out of the business? Is that really such a noble cause? Why not live and let live? If people are upset that these "not as worthy" artists are making more money, receiving more accolades, etc., than they are, the "fault" lies more with the machinery of the music biz. Those who take on the music biz, like Joni, *are* noble and courageous, IMHO, but publically singling out a few individuals by name to call on the carpet seems more arrogant and petty than honest to me. It's bullying and not necessary. Take on the system, but don't beat up on individuals. I don't cringe at their remarks because I feel they shouldn't express their honest, forthright opinions. But some of their remarks in public, the press, etc. have been so scathing, that I worry about a backlash, or even worse, a lawsuit for them. It's probably wiser to let loose with a rant privately among friends that putting it out for all the world to hear. Like Louis said here the other day "it's only music!" Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 15:51:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni and Steve (md2) In a message dated 6/14/00 9:51:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << They also tend to conceptualize their music horizontally rather than vertically. >> What does this mean ?? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 15:55:43 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ In a message dated 6/14/00 3:19:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << I'll be making the official tree announcement on Vols. 3/4/5 in a couple of days.... >> Bob, I was just notified that I was high bidder for Tim Curry's cover of "All I Want". I don't think it will be cheese since he does such a great job of "Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire". I should have the lp to you by next week. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 15:57:56 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Only One video w/ Joni Wonderful! At first, as I was watching it, I couldn't be sure. It sure didn't sound like Joni but it sure moved like Joni then I could hear Joni's voice and there was a much clearer shot of her. Great pick up! Bounced Message wrote: > From: "Nikki Johnson" > Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 04:26:34 -0400 > > Hey My friend sent this link to me and I dunno if y'all have seen this > before but I figured I'd share she said well there's Don Henley w/ James > Taylor and I am pretty sure Joni Mitchell! LOL I said yup sure looks and > sounds like her to me:-) Scroll down toward the bottom and you'll see "James > Taylor Only One Video"...click on that. > http://eaglesfans.simplenet.com/fastlane/video/video.htm > > Nikki > > "Ever since I was a baby girl the one thing I wanted most in this world was > to keep my love alive" ~ Heart ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 14 16:02:03 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ <> Well, I know that, and I was really anxious to hear it for that very reason. She mentioned it specifically when we talked to her in Atlanta - it probably inspired her to do her re-do of it for BSN. But it does suck - you've gotta admit it, Stephen! It sounds like Angela Lansbury crossed with Rex Harrison crossed with my chain-smoking Aunt Ann...is she British? The accent sounds like an amateur production of an Agatha Christie play! Anyway, to each their own...and I think it sucks! LOL! Bob NP: BoDeans, "Going Home" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:08:25 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ In a message dated 6/14/00 3:10:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Mabel Mercer also tortures BSN, sounding like Mrs. Miller (anybody remember her?). >> YES! What was her big "hit"? "Paris in the Spring"?? Now THERE was a lady with a voice!!! ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:07:20 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: W.S. Sings or "Slouching Towards Badtaste" Very good point Louis. I may even give a stab at singing myself now, though whoever I sing for will not be allowed any sharp objects near by. Louis Lynch wrote: > Oh my oh my oh my oh my, > You know, everyone, there have been times that this performer has hesitated > to sing a Joni song, even with the novelty of the harp to make up for any > vocal shortcomings. I'm a tenor, and I fall horribly short of Joni's > beautiful pitch and picture perfect voice. I've shied away from the really > lovely songs because I just didn't think I did it justice! > > Well, if William Shatner can sing Joni Mitchell that badly, and record it to > boot, the hell with it, ... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:11:02 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ In a message dated 6/14/00 4:02:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy writes: << But it does suck - you've gotta admit it, Stephen! >> Oh, I don't disagree with you! Now about this Aunt Ann of yours . . . Stephen NP Rosemary Clooney w/ John Pizzarelli "One Note Samba" ------------------------------ Date: Wed Jun 14 16:14:59 2000 From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ <> Rockin', Jimmy!! Dang, at the rate this stuff is coming in I'll have Volume SIX full in no time... Side note to John the Happy Dutchman - I'll be sending you 4/5 so you can Euro-Tree! You already should have V3. And here's a cool side note - Leslie is sending me a tape that Jim J gave her which is a collection of covers that Wally had! So even Wally is contributing - bless his heart! Anybody have his address in Heaven so I can send him his complimentary CD? :~D Bob NP: Earl Bostic, "8:45 Stomp" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 16:15:53 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: William Shatner Sings........ In a message dated 6/14/00 3:10:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Paul, you'll be racing to DED for relief! ;~) >> Maybe so, but don't you find it curious that Joni, who I think we can agree only performs the songs of hers she likes best, RARELY if ever performs anything from DED. Isn't that confirmation from the "goddess" herself that she thinks DED sucks, or at least that she has far less pride in that "child" than the rest of hers? My theory is that mediocre songs can be performed by mediocre singers, but it requires great singers to properly perform great songs. Therefore, while Shatner may have made cheese out of BSN, he could probably do an admirable (pun intended) job performing Ethopia, the Three Great Stimulants, and DED. By the way, it probably no surprise to you folks, but I have declared myself tacts-free. Paul I ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #248 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?