From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #245 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, June 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 245 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada [mann@chicagonet.net] Re:- the concert in CT [Gertus@aol.com] Re: Did I miss Something?? [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [Louis Lynch ] Esalen in '68 [Steve Dulson ] Re: mermaid cafe ["Jamie Zubairi" ] MU chords & Passion Play interpretations ["Kate Bennett" ] 6,000 people???!!! [Richard Rice ] Queen Lizzie [Scott Price ] Re: 6,000 people???!!! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon [MINGSDANCE@aol.com] Re: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [Dflahm@aol.com] Edith and the Kingpin [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: The first Farm Aid concert [GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni Programs. ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO ["Helen M. Adcock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:24:23 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Greenpoints Survey = Frequent Flyer Miles = Canada For all of you doing Greenpoints: There is a quick survey at Greenpoints.com for 500 points! It is only one question on the main page. It takes you right to it when you sign in. ****IT IS NOT ON THE SURVEY PAGE**** Guess which answer I chose!!! haha Canadian bound JMDLr's remember you can use these points to add to your Frequent Flyer Miles (that smart Floridian Jimmy reminded me of this after I had used them all on Blockbuster and Wendy's Gift Certificates! No Joni Canadian Gallery showing for me!!! Boo-hoo!) Hurry!!! http://www.greenpoints.com Laura ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:26:32 EDT From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re:- the concert in CT Linda Worster wrote:- >> OK... OK I know I'm late with this... but I'm still finding it hard to say anything too coherent about the concert. (And I'll admit to feeling even shyer than usual about posting these days...) But hey... I'm still absorbing all that I took in at Joni's concert in CT. It affected me profoundly, to say the least... :~) Hi Linda, you don't need to feel shy about posting to the list. That was a beautiful post and said lots of the things I felt about that concert but couldn't put into words. Like you, it was the first time I'd seen Joni since the 70s (''71 I think) and was especially happy to think that I had heard her sing both versions of ACOY live. I was also excited by the new versions of Joni's own songs but really couldn't get to grips with Hejira at CT and was so lucky to go the next night to Boston where it began to make much more sense. I left both concerts longing,as ever, for the next album to be released. It was really great to meet you outside the concert at CT and have a brief chat about your own music. I know this subject came up just recently and that you are going to contact Les but I'm impatient. How can I get hold of some of your recordings? My best Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:29:27 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Did I miss Something?? <> I told you not to fall asleep, Michael...Brian Gross has stepped up to the plate and is making the video available to whomever wants it - it's about 10 minutes worth... Meanwhile, Steve P. and I are working on some "Unplugged & Jamming"- type projects, compiling little 2/3 song bits for tree-ing. This Farm Aid '85 will be a part of that project, as will Amnesty Int'l benfit '85 which also features "Three Great Stimulants" and "DED"...this project is still a ways away, I just wanted anybody who is interested in the audio to know that it WILL surface in the semi-near future. Bob NP: Elvin Bishop, "Give Me Some of That Money" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:46:31 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? Michael, Thanks for posting the entire Metheny spiel against Kenny G. After reading it again, I still find Metheny overly vitriolic. It's obvious that he hates the man's approach toward music, creativity and life in general. This post has been going on for a while. David Lahm makes a point about people listening to Kenny G and thinking it's jazz might cause them to miss other artists who are real jazz. Real jazz? I never understood this, even though my little brother's a jazz guitarist. And my father was a jazz guitarist. (He named me after Louis Armstrong.) But, they could never tell me exactly what they meant by "real jazz." They say it either is or it isn't! But no one has ever told me exactly what jazz is, and who makes the rules that say someone is jazz and someone is not. Kenny G could just as well say that Pat Metheny isn't real jazz. Would he be any less right? Exactly what makes "jazz" so special that one person can say another person isn't jazz? They said it about Joni when she released Mingus. Metheny's saying it about Kenny G. David Lahm, whom I respect as a "jazz" pianist, makes a similar comment about him. David, Michael, help? Explain this! Kenny G changed a classic recording from a jazz great, Louis Armstrong. But, "Wonderful World" doesn't sound like jazz to me -- it's a pop song, pure and simple. Except for that little D-flat change, it has a very basic chord structure. The song could be done country or turned into a polka -- it's not that unusually difficult. Granted Kenny G's necrophilia might not be to everyone's taste, but, come on, he has as much right to express his creativity as anyone else, no matter how bad that creativity seems to some people. And much of Metheny's work doesn't sound like jazz to me -- more like experimental, nouveau, new age, post-classical to me. And, why on earth do jazz people consider "McArthur Park" and "Girl from Ipenema" jazz? One's pure pop, the other is a samba. Some of Kenny G's stuff sounds pretty jazzy to me. Some of Joni's stuff sounds really jazzy to me. While Louis Armstrong sometimes sounds more pop to me. And there are Metheny tunes that sound nothing like jazz. So, exactly who is making this distinction, and what is the distinction anyway? What does it take for a song or performer to be called "jazz" and who signs people up to give them the right to say so? Why is Herbie Hancock jazz, while David Lanz, who is extremely improvisational, considered new age? Sometimes David Lanz's rhythms are wild! But, he's not considered jazz. But Herbie Hancock can play 12-bar blues (quite well indeed), and it's considered "jazz." I play "jazz" songs on the piano, with improvisations, but many of the ballads aren't that much different than other popular ballads. We do jazzy stylistic things to old familiar Celtic tunes, but it's not considered jazz because it's based on Celtic. So obviously, jazz isn't a certain style of music, because some of the great jazz ballads have the same constructions as popular songs. You can jazz up a pop song, for sure, but if you pop up a jazz song, it's still considered jazz. How does that work? And, jazz isn't pure improvisation, because folk musicians improvise all the time. Beethoven improvised all the time, too. How come he's not jazz? And, jazz can't be a particular styling or a particular instrument, because all sorts of colorings and chords are present in world music. The flat 13 or sharp 11 aren't unique to jazz by any means -- the Ukrainians have been using them for centuries. Listen to Balkan music -- they use more harmonic coloring than most jazz stylists. They even have several different words to distinguish the many different types of "solos" in their music. How come they're not jazz? And, jazz can't be a particular field of study or sound, because even though Kenny G sounds jazzy, they don't consider him jazz. How come he's not jazz? And, jazz isn't a specific rhythm, or else "Girl from Ipenema" would be put in another category, for sambas. How come some sambas or tangos are jazz and some aren't? And, it's not necessary melodic or dissonent or fast or slow. How can you tell which song is jazz or not? And, it's not all playing by ear, or they wouldn't publish jazz charts and such. If it's jazz, then composers like Chick Corea shouldn't make any money off his sheet music, right? And, jazz isn't just a school of music from a group of "jazz greats," because a lot of pop and folk singers have performed jazz ballads, but they are not considered jazz singers. Why is Ornette Coleman jazz because he was a great improviser on his instrument, but Yo Yo Ma is a great improviser on his instrument, but he's not? And, jazz isn't just a set of instruments, because even marching bands use clarinets and saxophones and trumpets. Metheny criticized Kenny G for playing a "jazz" instrument that also happens to be found in almost every high school band. What's up with that? And, jazz can't be defined by repertoire, because "Summertime" is a Broadway show tune, and was later turned into a rock ballad by Joplin, etc., etc. Does that mean that Herbie Hancock can never play "Summertime" because it's not jazz? I've studied jazz piano and taken courses in improvisation -- I have a few chops. I can jam with a lot of different people. But my little brother tells me I'm not a jazz pianist. I play "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's not jazz. He plays "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's jazz. I swear, mine sounds just as jazzy as his. As far as I can see, it seems to be more of an attitude. And if you follow a selected crowd of musicians, you are cool and have a right to tell everybody else they are not. To me, Metheny's comments don't make sense for just that reason. Can someone explain this to me? Is it because I don't own a beret? Or is it because I just haven't decided to form a specific opinion about what I consider this to be or that to be? David, or Michael, or Mr. Metheny yourself, can you explain this to me? Thanks, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:29:34 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Cohen... From: Michael Bird Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 15:27:09 -0400 To Clark . . . Hi there . . . can't disagree with you about Dylan, but I beg you to reconsider Cohen. . . sounds like you've given him a fair shot in the past, and you have a point about the limits of his voice, and he ain't no Joni when it comes to musical breadth and innovation, but it's worth hearing him again as a composer of extraordinary, timeless talent. It's true that he uses a lot of the same musical tricks over and over, but many artists do that . . . the structure of a song like "Famous Blue Raincoat," while not melodic or polychromatic, is delicate and surprising . . . listen again to the subtle harmonic excellence of "Last Year's Man," or "Take This Longing." Sounds like you're already beyond that point, so if the voice and/or the often ridiculous arrangements get to you, explore some cover versions by artists with a broader palette: Geoffrey Oryema's "Suzanne" is more joyous and colorful than any other version I've heard of the song, and even Billy Joel (of whom I'm not a fan) brings a roadhouse-style ecstasy to "Light as the Breeze." By far the most extraordinary Cohen song you'll ever hear, by Cohen or anybody else, is Jeff Buckley singing "Hallelujah," from his album Grace. It outshines Cohen's recording of that song like the sun outshines a candle (using that analogy, John Cale's recording of the same song is a Waterford chandelier). Nickel Chief On the other hand, you have Cohen and Dylan who are renowned for their lyrics. Though I have enjoyed Bobby's more musical efforts (when he has a good band, some back up singers, some arrangements) , I can't get addicted to his music because he really can't sing, his harmonica playing is atrocious, and his guitar style is rudimentary with only an occasionally interesting flourish rooted in a certain primitive charm. I have tried to listen to the musicless dirges of Leonard Cohen and will not punish myself again -- I don't care how wonderful his lyrics are, he's not a good singer or composer. He needs more than wings taped on his back to make him fly. I can't see what Joni, or anyone else for that matter, ever saw in him. If the music is unmusical, then I won't listen for the words. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:58:12 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Esalen in '68 Paul C. wrote: >PS. And, to up the JC a bit, another Altman pic of >Joni at Esalen in '68 with Judy and Joan. >http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html >Anyone know who the other two are? I will make a guess that the guy is Jeffrey Shurtleaf (sp?), who was Joan's regular back-up guitarist then. The other woman??? ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:19:12 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: mermaid cafe - ----- Original Message > > PS. And, to up the JC a bit, another Altman pic of > Joni at Esalen in '68 with Judy and Joan. > http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html > (scroll down - after Donovan) > Anyone know who the other two are? > > Is it Mimi and (I think his name is) Robert Farina? Joan's sister and brother in law? Jamie Z ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:47:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: MU chords & Passion Play interpretations Thanks so much Howard for explaining Mu chords, I first heard about them when my engineer/producer told me I was using them. Now I can go back & figure out which ones they are! Thanks for all the amazing interpretations of Passion Play. I can see how all those biblical references can be transposed to the music biz. This list is so stimulating. Everytime I think, I don't have time for this, some brilliant conversation comes up & I think, how can I not? Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 17:38:30 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? Again, Louis, there's lots to reply to in your comment--too much for one post from me. But if someone doesn't at least try to swing convincingly in 4/4 meter (walking bass), chances are I won't feel that he or she is playing jazz. Not every tune has to walk, but I need a significant portion of the repertoire in that pocket. On the other hand, when Stan Getz, a musician with (to say the least) valid jazz credentials, recorded bossa novas, I was never disturbed by his bossa nova records being called jazz. If you had to swing to be credible, to survive, then there will be a jazz sensibility in any style you play. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:19:38 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Saskatoon list << Right now, I'm the only member, so it's getting lonely! ;-) Let's see if this works. Mary P. YEAH Mary! I was hoping someone would start a list. I have been wondering who from the JMDL is going. I won't sub to the list since I'm not going, but I would appreciate if you or someone else would post to the JMDL who plans on attending. Thanks, Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 19:57:23 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: No need to panic! Ok, I can feel the fevor swelling, re: Saskatoon. Now, will everyone please stay calm... and STAY HOME. I repeat, no need to obsess about this. Close your eyes and breathe deeply... and remember, STAY HOME. No need to wait in a long endless queue for a moment of what will amount to a wedding reception line. Order the catalogue raisonne, put on a pot of coffee and go to your favorite patissere, buy some orange cranberry scones and enjoy... but STAY HOME. When I count to ten, you will wake up feeling calm and content, as if coming out of a pleasant sweet dream. You will remember none of this... except a general feeling of wanting to STAY HOME. ( Dr. Sigmund John. --trying to figure out how I can possibly steal - --hog-- all the Joni time I can !!!!!!!!!!!!) Is there any way we listers can, as a group, ask her out to lunch with US??? Someone make reservations... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:06:46 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! - --gee, and I thought I was going to be the only one... j. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:43:34 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Queen Lizzie At 12:13 PM 6/12/00 EDT, CarltonCT@aol.com (Clark) wrote: >>catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca writes: >>The copper proud-headed Queen Lizzie is a Canadian >>penny - Liz is on the "heads" side. A penny (because >>it's copper) can be used as a quick fix for a blown fuse, >Okay, but what does that mean within the context of the song? Hi Clark, I'll take a stab at this one. "Electricity" has always been one of my favorite tracks on FTR. And it wasn't the lyrics that initially attracted me to this song. Rather it was the soaring and silky-smooth vocal presentation...almost a "yodel" at times. Stunningly beautiful and achingly longing. Later after I studied the lyrics I was even more caught up with this song. My interpretation is after an emotionally-charged breakup, Joni has retreated to her stone cottage in British Columbia, Canada. Maybe she walks in after not being there for many months, flips the switch, and the lights don't come on. She fumbles around trying to get the juice turned back on (she's got all the wrong fuses and splices) and the experience becomes a metaphor for her broken relationship. She knows she's "not going to fix it up too easy" but her pride mirrors that of Queen Elizabeth, whose likeness is engraved on the penny in the fusebox that's being used to "conduct little charges." But Joni knows that the electrons "don't get charged back" and forth any more than her feelings of love are being returned. In other words, this "electricity" that she had with her former lover still conducts feelings but there's nothing in the "owner's manual" that can entirely see her through these troubled times. It's up to her to figure it out. The lyrics go back and forth between first person and third person, but I believe the song is clearly about Joni. When she sings "And she holds out her flashlight, and she shines it on me," I see her drawing a mental picture of a proud and wise Queen Elizabeth shining a spotlight on Joni and asking "what's wrong?" and perhaps telling her "get it together." She learns, it's peaceful there, but resigns herself to the fact that it's not going to be fixed up too easily. She had this love that floodlit the time...there were feelings flowing back and forth (input, output) and they were electric. But it became too much, the lines overloaded, and the sparks started flying. Still not wanting to give up hope, she shines her candle, hearing his song in her head, looking for the answer...and ultimately concluding that it won't be fixed up too easy. The big picture to me is that Joni is going through an extremely difficult time and is trying to find, through serious contemplation, what the answers are...what the "fix" is. It's this ability Joni conveys to help one's self that so endears her music to me. She doesn't sugar-coat it for herself...she's a realist in that regard...but she's also an astute observer, and a hopeful romantic. I like that. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:47:01 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: 6,000 people???!!! In a message dated 6/12/2000 9:20:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, f40rmr1@corn.cso.niu.edu writes: << 6,000 people???!!! 6,000 people???!!! --gee, and I thought I was going to be the only one... j. >> Tell me about it!!! I love Joni but I doubt if I would get even a few hundred feet close to her with that many people showing up. I will wait and go to the exhibit later in the summer. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:55:01 EDT From: MINGSDANCE@aol.com Subject: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon I've always placed Joni as the one in the sycamore tree, looking out feeling as if her sins of life are really all that bad compared to the religious organizations, big business and the terrorist of the world. She seems to be saying while the churches are making promises of freedom of burden it is the masses who work for Exxon and the power plants all are in attendance of these services totally missing sight of the havoc and evils these things have reaped upon the earth. " The killer nails are ringing ", are literally The machine guns and bombs going off in the market places of the third world countries and the oil companies dominance of power over all these regions for profitable gains while they go to church divinely barren of all they are causing. So in her own free style she is much closer to redemption then they could ever be! I could go on and on but, on to the show. I'll be at the Saskatoon opening "EXTRAVAGANZA" I hope to meet some of you there. I'll be at the Quality Hotel downtown Saskatoon, and I know nothing of the town but can't wait!!! And a good night to all. David Mingus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:25:04 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Re. Passion Play & Saskatoon In a message dated 6/12/2000 10:02:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MINGSDANCE@aol.com writes: << I've always placed Joni as the one in the sycamore tree, looking out feeling as if her sins of life are really all that bad compared to the religious organizations, big business and the terrorist of the world. She seems to be saying while the churches are making promises of freedom of burden it is the masses who work for Exxon and the power plants all are in attendance of these services totally missing sight of the havoc and evils these things have reaped upon the earth. " The killer nails are ringing ", are literally The machine guns and bombs going off in the market places of the third world countries and the oil companies dominance of power over all these regions for profitable gains while they go to church divinely barren of all they are causing. So in her own free style she is much closer to redemption then they could ever be! >> That interpretation works perfect for me!! I agree 101%! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:46:25 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? As for the "attitude" to which you refer (you didn't say "elitist" but that's the sense I got), I would answer you this way, FOR MYSELF: I DON'T begin these discussions/disagreements/disputes. I don't spontaneously put people down or call them "not cool" because they don't like jazz. I DO feel love and awe for a music that expresses the human spirit in a unique and majestic way. I aspire to it and I feel protective toward it. Isn't there some kind of music that is very dear to you, very inspiring to you, very warming and nourishing to you which you would not like to see trashed and adulterated by people's using its name to advertise ANOTHER kind of music, which does NOT inspire and nourish your soul? Jazz has never been defined in words to the satisfaction of everyone. That, IMO, does not render illegitimate an individual person's feeling that a particular performance is or is not jazz. The faith that I keep about jazz is not undermined because you are able to demonstrate that I cannot come up with a non-self-contradictory set of answers to the questions you posed. I hope everyone reading this has gotten the same nourishment from the music you love as I have from the music I love. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:09:06 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Edith and the Kingpin Does anyone remember in the recent discussion about HOSL,someone pointed out that one of the album's main theme was the tension between the different conflicts that result in living in suburbia?the extremes of blandness,conformity,repression on one hand and the opposite extreme of decadence,irresponsability and meaningless escapism on the other extreme.I was thinking that perhaps Edith and Kingpin captures this conflict.The opposite extremes of innocence/experiance meet,"each with charm to sway"people who live in the suburbs.They dare not look away from the other,because opposite's attract. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 00:26:47 EDT From: GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com Subject: Re: The first Farm Aid concert I have the live recording of that show I taped off the radio that year! I need to dig that out! Is this on the tree, in any form? I would donate this to a tree person if not. The recordings not bad! We need to give DED a break, and the live recording from this period give the album a lot of heart! Peace, NP: Asian Travels (compilation) - Various Artist ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:23:59 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? In a message dated 6/12/2000 10:57:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Dflahm@aol.com writes: << I hope everyone reading this has gotten the same nourishment from the music you love as I have from the music I love. >> Yes I have. I will say one thing. Pat Metheny is a tru Jazz man. Kenny G sold out so to speck. He allowed himself to become comercialized which is a shame. Joni (which is why I love her so much) NEVER sold out. Even when they were throwing slings and arrows she still held true to her own drum. And that is the differnce between Kenny G and Pat Metheny. Pat is like Joni. He would never sell out. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:54:15 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: More Metheny -- What the Hell Is Jazz? the harper writes: << I play "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's not jazz. He plays "Yesterday" with improvisations and bluesy little notes, and it's jazz. I swear, mine sounds just as jazzy as his. .... As far as I can see, it seems to be more of an attitude. And if you follow a selected crowd of musicians, you are cool and have a right to tell everybody else they are not...... Can someone explain this to me? Is it because I don't own a beret? Or is it because I just haven't decided to form a specific opinion about what I consider this to be or that to be? >> the LHAM chops: < my comments: i told you harper lou that your time away made you better. i loved your post here. all of it. you were very genuine. and LHAM, i loved your line on the walking bass in your earlier post. my first thoughts about what jazz was came after listening to a version of stormy monday done by long john baldry, the name sake for the john part of elton john and early mentor for eric clapton and many others in the '60s london bar scene. 'call it stormy monday' is a blues song written by t.bone walker. but it is complex because it has a jazz mix in it and moves into more traditional jazz chords during certain points of the song and actuall has a walking feel to it as those chords slide up and down the fret board. very step oriented. and the version i'm thinking of by john baldry really played into the two different sounds and ran blues during the blues chords and jazz during the jazz chords. it was one of the most moving experiences i have had listening to that version of that song. sort of an epiphany for me. of course, i'm pleased with very simple things, so i would not expect everyone to understand that. now i'm undeducated musically as well, but you will understant me on this i think. for me, jazz is a form that can be heard/seen and identified. and confused too. things can be jazzy, but not necessarily jazz. i think stormy monday is a blues song that is jazzy. and some of the harpers questions lead to that difference, i think. and david's mark of the walking bass sort of defines specifically for him what jazz is which removes jazzy out of the pot. but the difference between jazz and jazzy is quite ambiguous. thus metheny and kenny g and even some of joni's work can be called both jazz and new age and who know's what else. again, for me, jazz is in the ear of the listener, more than in the expression of the player. we know what we think when we hear jazz. so when we hear it, we think we have heard it. it's very simple. jazz is a concept. a form of expression. the blues cut. they are sharp. the bend and slice. they are despairing. rock is beat. it pounds. drives. controls the space of the room. folk is heart. expression. giving. hopefull. but simple too. jazz is freefall. realtime. a journey uncharted. smooth. if sad, not despairing. if bent, not unyielding. if beat, not pounding. of all the music i have ever heard, jazz makes me most happy in the moment. then when it is gone, it is over. other music stays with me. jazz is only alive when i can hear it. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:29:26 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni Programs. Bob wrote: >You're quite welcome, John...earlier I sent out a message to gauge the >interest and only ONE other Aussie replied that they wanted a program, so >hopefully they won't come out of the woodwork now as I only sent you 5. But >if you need more, I've got 'em! And so far, NO other NZ jimdlers have come forward asking for a programme! I'm taking one to give to a friend tonight (at our weekly pub trivia quiz), but I'm a little surprised that no one else wants one! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 18:36:53 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Altman Pictures -- THE OTHER TWO Laura wrote: >http://www2.cea.edu/robert/Page13.Mixed.Bag.html >I'm guessing..........John Kay from Steppenwolf >(sure looks like him!! LOL) and that looks like >the profile of Ms. Carole King.... >the original BORN TO BE WILD group! > >Anyone else??? Anyone? Anyone? I don't think it's Carole King. Her hair was reasonably long by then, and I don't think she wasn't performing as early as 1968 (and the nose is the wrong size and shape!). Her first solo album (Writer) was in 1970, and her very first (Now That Everything's Been Said - The City: Carole, Danny Kortchmar abd Charles Larkey) was a year before that (I think!). I also doubt she'd have been playing guitar rather than piano? But then I've been wrong before - and I can't offer any alternatives! Hell _____________________________ "To have great poets, there must be great audiences too." - Walt Whitman hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #245 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?