From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #240 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, June 10 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 240 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Boston: May 28 [Robert Holliston ] Translation ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Steely Dan (SJC) [Howard Wright ] Steely Dan (SJC) ["Eric G. Postel" ] Re: Joni gets Burgers (extremely silly content) [B Merrill ] AZ radio station [Bounced Message ] Re: Steely Dan (SJC) [peves@marlboro.edu] Re: Circle Game [RandyRemote ] Re: Steely Dan (SJC) ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Circle Game [Jerry Notaro ] Jesus, Joni, Metheny and Kenny G [Louis Lynch ] toon town here we come (sorta jc) [evian ] Re: Translation [Mark Domyancich ] Should I Stay or Should I Go? (To Canada) ["kerry" ] Re: Translation [Gellerray@aol.com] Fwd: OT: your glam name [jan gyn ] passion play, redux [RickieLee1@aol.com] mu (SJC) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Joni reference on Rosie [Phyliss Ward ] Re: passion play, redux [Mark Domyancich ] Re: passion play, redux ["Sue Cameron" ] flight of the silver beatles [B Merrill ] Joni at Camden WOW! ["Kakki" ] Play Joni Tribute Now ["Ken (slarty)" ] favorite cd's ["joseph tischner" ] Re: Joni at Camden WOW! [PPeterson4@aol.com] Re: favorite cd's [IVPAUL42@aol.com] The Last Time I Saw Dickhead (SJC) [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: favorite cd's ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Joni at Camden WOW! ["Patricia O'Connor" ] Re: Play Joni Tribute Now ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: favorite cd's [RandyRemote ] Re: CD Tracks. [Richard Rice ] Re: city, jungle, suburb, SJC ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 02:43:37 -0700 From: Robert Holliston Subject: Boston: May 28 Hey y'all! I travelled from Vancouver, B.C. to Boston for Joni, and am I glad I did!! From my very good seat (thank you, ric!) I could do one of two things: appreciate Joni's artistry (which I did), and learn that planes take off from Logan airport every 90 seconds. Tailwinds were kind to me: I was prepared (because we had a stopover at O'Hare) to miss the concert altogether. But I got to Boston in time to check in to my hotel, meet ric and Marieve for dinner, and go to the concert. I've never posted about BSN because I was a bit underwhelmed. Singing the songs live, more than halfway through her tour, Joni was amazing: her performance felt spontaneous, which is what I missed on the CD. Occasionally the huge orchestra overwhelmed her (it was essentially an outdoor venue, always an acoustical nightmare), but Joni was captivating and intense and always in the moment. As Ashara has already mentioned, the audience was really kind of rude. People in our row kept pushing past us in mid-song to go get a beer (ric finally turned to me and remarked, "This is getting tedious!!"). I have to say that I'm still a bit lukewarm about the BSN CD. I wish she'd toured with this material before she recorded it, because she seemed so much more relaxed in Boston (and I gather she was even better in Connecticut) than she seems to be on the recording (just my opinion, folks ;-) As so many people have said, the best thing was spending time with fellow JMDLers. After the show, we all met in the lobby (there was no room at the bar) of a fancy-schmantzy hotel. It was wonderful to see Ashara and Maggie again; longtime listers will already know that ric and I have become great friends offlist as well as on. It was great to see him again, and to meet Larry Klein in his company (ric got the autograph; I was too shy to do anything but shake hands with the ex-husband, musical director, and bass player of/for Joni Mitchell). The next day, many happy hours with two of my favorite people: Chuck E and Barbara. Looking so forward to seeing you guys again this Labor Day weekend!! Speaking of fellow JMDLers, I spent three wonderful days in New York City, mostly in the company of lister Patrick Leader and once and future lister Kay Ashley. The three of us went to Judy's Chelsea to hear the extraordinary David Lahm and his extroardinarily talented wife Judy pay tribute to David's legendary mother, Dorothy Fields. It was a great evening! I recommend Judy's Chelsea to anyone visiting New York - even if the one and only David Lahm isn't performing, there will be a good pianist/singer entertaining at the bar, and they make one heck of a good martini (attention Kakki ;-) What a great thing it was to travel to the East Coast and spend all my time with fellow JMDLers! This time, Joni was the icing on the cake.......... Cheers and love to all, Roberto ps. as for Christgau, he's never liked "folkies" or singer-songwriters. With due (and considerable, and genuine) respect to David Wright, it's hard to take the guy seriously. I mean, he gives albums a letter grade, for f***ing out loud! Plus, even when he praised Joni, there was always a misogynistic feel about it. Just my opinion, folks, but it's very true ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:14:38 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: Translation hey everyone do you know any translation of joni's lyrics that was published? did joni ever allow her words to be translated? if so - were the translations published? ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:12:28 +0100 From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) <> Bob wrote: <> Ok, you got me going with this one! Three of my favourite topics combined: Joni, Steely Dan and chords! As it happens, I'm some way through writing a little web page on the Steely Dan mu-major chord. This is my take: The basic mu-major chord is a standard major chord with an added 2nd, so you end up with the root (1st), 2nd, maj 3rd and 5th. In "normal" language, you would call it an "add2" chord. This chord is not unique to the Dan, though they used it more than others, and when mixed with other jazzy Dan-type chords, it has quite a different effect. The way the chord is voiced affects the sound. The "early period" mu-major has the root in the bass, and the 2nd and 3rd next to each other, creating a nice dissonance. E.g, an A mu-major might be voiced (low to high) A E B C# (on the guitar: x0242x). Songs that are full of this kind of mu-major include Rikki, Dr Wu, Razor Boy ... In later Dan albums (Scam and after) they started using a mu voicing where the 3rd is in the bass, so you don't have the 2nd/3rd dissonance effect, but get a more spacey, jazzy sounding thing. This type of mu-major is voiced (in the key of A): C# B E A (on the guitar: 04x455). Think of the chorus line of Deacon Blues ("call me DBlues"). The chord on "call" is the mu-major voiced with 3rd in the bass. The intro to DB also uses this same chord. What has all this got to do with Joni? As we know, she is a big fan of "weird" chords, and like the Dan, likes to spice things up with some dissonance. Her guitar tunings are the main way she manages this, and probably her most frequently used tuning is - yes, you guessed it - a MU MAJOR chord! The tuning is (in the key of C): Joni notation: C 77235 note names: C G D E G C It's the D note (the 2nd in the key of C) that adds the spice, and gives Joni's characteristic major and minor style chords a nice twist. There are 13 songs that use this generic tuning listed in the jmdl guitar database. BTW, the latest Dan album, Two against Nature, uses plenty of Mu-major chords - Becker and Fagen are still finding good uses for this one! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:18:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Circle Game In a message dated 6/8/00 2:11:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, leslie@torchsongs.com writes: << Vince, I've confirmed that Buffy Ste. Marie performed "The Circle Game" in the soundtrack of the film, "The Strawberry Statement." Mystery solved. Leslie >> Yes, and isn't it her who sings "Songs to Aging Children Come" in "Alice's Restaurant"? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 08:38:21 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) <> Thanks for bailing me out, Howard! I knew I had read about that "Mu-major" concept but couldn't express it musically - you filled in the gap in a fascinating way. I was half afraid that Walter and Donald were just making all that stuff up to sucker naive chumps like me... Mini-mu, you complete me! :~D So what songs of Joni's are mu'd (he asked, creating a new verb in the process)? Bob NP: The Beatles, "Nowhere Man" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:59:26 EDT From: TheHotelNH@aol.com Subject: re: toronto article Thanks so much, Scott, for posting the link to that article. It was a wonderful read. I loved the quote that she came from "sky-oriented people." - --Chris NP: Joni at the Corel Center ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:07:26 EDT From: TheHotelNH@aol.com Subject: European jmdlers?? Hi everyone - I'm going to be leaving next week to do a 2-week homestay in York, England. That will end June 27. After that, I'm going to be travelling through Ireland, London, Paris, Brussels, and up in Amsterdam to fly home. I'm going by myself (I'm a teacher, so my friends are all working over the summer), so I was wondering if there are other jmdlers that live in those areas. It's probably a wild shot, but I figured that if I wasn't going to pass through where some of you guys live, maybe you could at least point me in the direction of some neat places to visit. I don't post very much - I posted the question earlier asking what songs you would like to see done with an orchestra. No one responded, but as I'd read earlier, that doesn't mean you're not loved or welcomed. :) Anyway, for one more reintroduction...my name's Chris, I'm 23, I'm writing from Birmingham, Alabama. I teach seventh and eigth grade English and Lit. We even studied some Joni at the beginning of the year - there was a project in their book to write a song, and "The Circle Game" was the model for that activity. They seemed to enjoy that. After that, whenever they heard some mention of Joni (like the TNT special), they'd let me know. Hopefully I've planted some seeds. Hope to hear from some of you. Feel free to e-mail me privately. Take care, Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:30:31 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: European jmdlers?? Hi, Chris. Btw...I thought yours was an excellent question! I was hoping it would get picked up and debated at length. Maybe it will, now that some attention will likely be given to speculation on the next album. I'm a newbie, too. I just "go for it." :-) "Boston Jim" > I don't post very much - I posted the question earlier asking what songs > you would like to see done with an orchestra. > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:31:56 -0500 From: "Eric G. Postel" Subject: Steely Dan (SJC) Okay, another uninformed opinion here. I love steely dan. I sat in the first row to see them in 1993, have all the records, collected concert recordings of them, etc. But, I for one can not put them as high on the list as Joni because they do not match up on the innovation/evolution count. Their sound on the current record is not much different from 20 years ago. Indeed most of their CDs are similar. Oh I know there are solos that are different, horns, etc. But not the scale of change and experimentation and evolution shown in For The Roses> Heijira>DED>BSN. For me, this quality is one of the things that boosts some of my favorites from love to the hall of fame (&love). So, for me its Joni, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen and a couple of others. Have a nice weekend, Eric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 09:34:31 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Joni gets Burgers (extremely silly content) Can anyone more theologically adept than I please explain Why the baby Christ is being proffered a hamburger?? Why the adult Jesus is preaching to two people with hamburgers for heads???? For I too wish to pass over Cotton Avenue and through the golden arches, with my side order of fries! - --verily, Bruce M NP: Arthur Brown, "Fire" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:32:19 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) (md) Just talked to a close knowledgeable friend who went to the Steely Dan concert and he absolutely raved about it and said he was absolutely bewildered by the review as if it had to be some other show than the one he went to. marcel ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:44:06 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Dog eat Dolby/My Dog Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:22:28 -0400 From: vivienne j wildes My dog, Max, loves Dog Eats Dog and howls to Coming in from the Rain each time it's played. I agree that considering what was coming out in the 80's at the time, Dog Eats Dog was right there with them, but so was Chalk Mark in A Rain Storm. It has Billy Ido and Willy Nelson on it, for example. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:45:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: AZ radio station From: Mike.Oka@integris.com Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:03:50 -0700 Kakki wrote: When they first hit the radio waves, I was in college in Arizona. Phoenix was a very small, dusty town back then but it had incredible music and a radio station that beat any in L.A. (Don't remember the call letters)... Was it KDKB with a DJ named Toad Hall? There is another radio station here, KYOT (Coyote), that uses part of Sex Kills when plugging their own station. But I rarely hear them play any Joni. Mike NP Jill Sobule - Stoned Soul Picnic ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:46:35 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) Eric, Interesting. As far as the innovation/evolution count - it's Neil Young (who I absolutely LOVE) who doesn't match up in my view. I don't see *growth* of the kind Joni has demonstrated in Neil or Bruce (who I also count as one of the world's finest songwriter's and spirits! ) If you want to talk innovation/evolution - Joni's rivals could be Laurie Anderson, David Byrne, The Roches & the like. Folks not stuck in *style*. Who else? Paul Simon? Peg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 10:43:49 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Circle Game IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > I've confirmed that Buffy Ste. Marie performed "The > Circle Game" in the soundtrack of the film, "The Strawberry > Statement." > > Mystery solved. > > Leslie >> > > Yes, and isn't it her who sings "Songs to Aging Children Come" in "Alice's > Restaurant"? > > Paul I No, in Alice's Restuarant it was sung by some blonde long- haired Joni lookalike. RR ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:49:42 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) Peg, I'd agree with you to a large extend about Springsteen, but not Neil Young. He's embarked on a wide variety of stylistic experiments, resulting in, as David Geffen put it in his lawsuit against Neil, "unrepresentative" albums like Trans (techno-pop), Everybody's Rockin' ('50s rockabilly), Old Ways (mainstream country), and then This Note's For You (blues and r&b) once back on Reprise. He's always been all over the map, even as far back as the Buffalo Springfield. "Boston Jim" > Interesting. As far as the innovation/evolution count - it's Neil Young (who I > absolutely LOVE) who doesn't match up in my view. I don't see *growth* of > the kind Joni has demonstrated in Neil or Bruce (who I also count as one > of the world's finest songwriter's and spirits! ) If you want to talk > innovation/evolution - Joni's rivals could be Laurie Anderson, David Byrne, > The Roches & the like. Folks not stuck in *style*. Who else? Paul Simon? > > Peg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 13:59:50 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Circle Game RandyRemote wrote: > IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > > > I've confirmed that Buffy Ste. Marie performed "The > > Circle Game" in the soundtrack of the film, "The Strawberry > > Statement." > > > > Mystery solved. > > > > Leslie >> > > > > Yes, and isn't it her who sings "Songs to Aging Children Come" in "Alice's > > Restaurant"? > > > > Paul I > > No, in Alice's Restuarant it was sung by some blonde long- > haired Joni lookalike. That well known singer, Tigger Outlaw. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:05:45 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Jesus, Joni, Metheny and Kenny G Hi all, Just visited the askjesus.org website to see the send-up of the Joni page. How excellent! I'm so glad people in the world still have time to waste on silly stuff like this. Great find, Deb Messling? Kudos! I also visited the Pat Metheny website recommended by James Leonard. Metheny's comments on Kenny G are soulless and infantile. When I recounted that my brother Craig had a bad experience with Metheny's attitude, several people on the list told me it was unlike everything they knew about him. They led me to believe my opinion about Metheny was wrong and that perhaps my bro might have just had a singular bad experience in his youth. But, really, any musician who publishes such broiling and pointed criticism of another musician in public doesn't match up with the sweetly wonderful laid-back person some professed Metheny to be. Surely, Kenny G cannot be as horrible a musician as Metheny claims. Metheny makes Kenny G out to be the antichrist or something. It's exactly the kind of attitude my brother described from working with him 12 years ago. He crushed those young musicians with his condemning comments. And Metheny's comments about working with Joni weren't that favorable either. Whether you say he's a nice guy or not, his writing displays a prima donna jazz attitude. If Metheny thinks that Kenny G, by his playing, doesn't truly understand the art of music. Then I think that Metheny, by his own writing, doesn't truly understand the soul of music. I never figured out why some musicians are so much like that.... "It's not music if it's not classical. It's not REAL country music. So-and-so isn't a TRUE jazz player. It's not authentic Irish music." Especially when the true geniuses in the world of music have historically been those brave enough to transcend the boundaries and mix the styles. Joni added Burundi to pop -- was it authentic Burundi and was it still pop? I've heard her criticized for not being a real jazz singer, not being true to the folk idiom, etc. Yet, her influence is present on so many styles of modern music. But, that doesn't seem to matter. Some people (like Metheny in this case) feel justified in criticizing people for not living up to their own personalized view of the world. I guess that's why I own more than 20 of Joni Mitchell's works. And no Metheny albums. Joni's view of the world suits me much better. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 14:26:30 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Re: Steely Dan (SJC) My reaction is similar in that I'd concur that SD are less open and restless as "our Joni." On the other hand: I tuned into their recent PBS presentation of their latest stuff and was struck by how sophisticated their songs had become (something they've evolved to) but also how routinized, almost formulaic they now seemed. So I think that when you go back and listen to, e.g. Pretzel Logic, you find songs that are simpler (certainly simpler in their arrangement) but also more diverse in subject matter and style. So, in one regard (esp arrangement) they've advanced, but with a reduction of scope. Perhaps if I listened more closely to their recent material, it would seem more diverse...? Hopefully, Bruce ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 12:51:55 -0600 From: evian Subject: toon town here we come (sorta jc) > How will we Listers identify ourselves to each other? Hearts on sleeves? > Tattoos on foreheads? Pre-arranged meeting place? Evian, you may be our only > source of Toontown info. Any favourite spot you think would be a good place > to meet up sometime on Friday? > > Gotta make this quick since I am on a lunchbreak (but I come home and check my email.... I need a life). Anyhooo, as I've said, let's count heads and figure out where everyone is staying. I imagine we'll all be in the same area, so we could set a time to meet or whatever sometime in the afternoon if y'all want? Let me know where y'all are staying (Angelino Coyote, what's the addy on your hotel -- I can't place it) and then maybe we can figure something out. Northern Katie, are you hoteling it or staying with relatives/friends? I say that since people seem to be coming all over the world for this thing, according to the G&M, that we get to the Mendel damn early!!!! Anyway, for those of you who haven't told me where you are staying and when you are getting in, drop me a line. Evian NPIMH: "Reeling in the Years," thanks to the SD posts ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:30:38 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Translation I remember hearing someone had an Italian copy of The Complete Poems and Lyrics... there may be other translations out there. Anywho, try a translation service on the web if you can't find anything. NP-Stone Temple Pilots, Sour Girl At 10:14 AM +0000 6/9/00, Ada Wittenberger wrote: >hey everyone >do you know any translation of joni's lyrics that was published? did >joni ever allow her words to be translated? if so - were the >translations published? - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:56:40 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: Should I Stay or Should I Go? (To Canada) Help! I'm having a last minute dilemma about possibly going to Saskatoon. The other day I just thought to my self, WHY NOT GO? SHE'S actually going to be there!!! Anyway, can anyone recommend a good place to stay? Someplace relatively close to the airport? Are hotels possibly booked already? I'm stressing about this decision! (If I go, my next dilemma will be what to say to Joni if I actually meet her. I don't think standing there like a deer in the headlights would be a good idea. And probably what will happen!!) Thanks, Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:20:26 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Translation In a message dated 6/9/00 3:23:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wittadi@hotmail.com writes: << hey everyone do you know any translation of joni's lyrics that was published? did joni ever allow her words to be translated? if so - were the translations published? >> Hello Ada, Yes, I know of at least one translation of Joni's Lyrics because I bought it, a long time ago when I was travelling in Italy, back in 1984. The book is a small paperback, and the cover shows the same picture of Joni as is on the inside of Miles of Aisles--her with guitar and a smile wearing that sequined jacket...On this cover it says "Autori vari" in small print at the top, then "Joni Mitchell," above the picture. Below the picture sits the name of the publisher, "Gammalibri." Inside are short essays on all of her albums up to Shadows and Light, and translations of most of the songs (into Italian, of course) from each album following its short introduction. Inside, on one of the opening pages there is a short production note which reads: Pubblicazione periodica mensile Autorizzazione Tribunale di Milano n. 210 del 10.5.78 Direttore responsible Domenico Nodari. Then, at the bottom of that page, it says: Proprieta letteraria riservata Copyright 1982 editrice Gammalibri Milano Prima edizione ottobre 1982. Well, that's what I know. Any more questions please feel free to ask. regards, r Well that ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:16:03 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: Fwd: OT: your glam name get your partae name here: - -jan (AKA 'Ginchy Featherpants') http://qix.lm.com/cgi-bin/fun/glamname.pl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:20:54 EDT From: RickieLee1@aol.com Subject: passion play, redux now, for something completely different...(god, am i the only one these days who gets nervous posting to this touchy list?) i know that folks may be tired of this song, namely, "passion play", but its like a sore tooth for me. i just can't quite leave it alone for very long. we have discussed in the past, on more than one occaision, the perplexing lines "exxon blue and radiation rose", which, despite the considerable pooled wisdom of this list, still remain intractably obtuse to me...but how about that last verse? i know the "killer nails" refers to the crucifixion, when jesus was so rudely applied to his cross, but what about those lines: ""divinely barren, and wickedly wise...the killer nails are ringing." what might that mean, joniacs??? to provide context: "all around the market place / the buzzing of the flies / the buzzing and the sting / divinely barren and wickedly wise / the killer nails are ringing" huh? i love this song. i love the sound of it, the bass line, the chorus, but - next to "don't interrupt the sorrow" is there any more inaccessible song in joni mitchell's canon than this one? in a way, it is more frustrating than DITS, since that one is SO off the charts, there is no impulse to even TRY to unravel its meaning. (at least with me) i just go with it. but this song seems to just hover on the cusp of understanding, but never quite falls over to the right side. it is clearly about that simon guy from some sunday school song i almost remember. the guy who was too short to see jesus over the crowd, and climbed up some tree (a sycamore, i guess) to get a better view. and i think it is a beautiful, and interesting portrait of this man; this "sinner of some position". but then it goes off with these strange images (exxon and radiation? in a song about the ancient bible times???) and WHAT is divinely barren (and while we're at it, what does THAT mean?) and wickedly wise? the buzzing flies? the ringing nails? the song is a very tough nut to crack, and it sticks in my throat everytime i hear it. (is this an indication of its greatness, or does it suggest it is one of her lesser lyrical efforts. what good is art if no one can understand it?) someday, when joni and i glide off in her limo, i intend to ask her about it. and i will be sure to post you her enlightening explanation of it all. until then, i will be interested in anything you guys might have to say. awaiting your advices... peace, ric ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:23:57 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: mu (SJC) howard, is the first chord on paprika plains a mu chord then? wallyk > The basic mu-major chord is a standard major chord with an added 2nd, so > you end up with the root (1st), 2nd, maj 3rd and 5th. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 15:24:43 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Joni reference on Rosie Can you believe there was *another* reference to Joni on Rosie today?! Kelsey (spelling?) Grammar (geez! is this English class? ) a/k/a Frasier was the guest. Rosie proceeds to tell him that she was going to name her daughter Kelsey but people said it was a boys name because of him so she named her Chealsea instead. Kelsey then said that people used to say to him "Wake up, it's a Kelsey morning" and Rosie proceeded to sing "and the first thing that I saw". That's it Phyliss, who told the whole PazFest Story to her housekeeper/buddy today. She's on the Sammy Haagar list and does stuff with them too including trips to some bar in Cabo San Lucas that Sammy owns and plays at. Anyway, she understands : - D ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:08:05 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: passion play, redux At 6:20 PM -0400 6/9/00, RickieLee1@aol.com wrote: >i know the "killer nails" refers to the crucifixion, when jesus was so rudely >applied to his cross, but what about those lines: ""divinely barren, and >wickedly wise...the killer nails are ringing." what might that mean, >joniacs??? I think the ringing of the nails means just the sound a hammer makes when it hits a nail, or maybe kind of a signal for all Christians to remember the crucifixion. >the buzzing flies? I think Joni is just painting a picture for the listener, of what the city was like then... flies in the market place. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 19:46:41 -0400 From: "Sue Cameron" Subject: Re: passion play, redux >From: RickieLee1@aol.com >Subject: passion play, redux >to provide context: "all around the market place / the buzzing of the flies >/ the buzzing and the sting / divinely barren and wickedly wise / the killer >nails are ringing" > >huh? I interpret this song as Joni saying that big business rules over the environment. Divinely barren and wickedly wise...the wise business men are counting their silver coins over a wasted land... Exxon blue, radiaion rose, apathy..... Can we get back to the thread of Joni's most upbeat songs??? Sue Cameron n.e. M&Ms in honor of Marshall Mathers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 20:04:11 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: flight of the silver beatles If you want to talk >> innovation/evolution - Joni's rivals could be Laurie Anderson, David >Byrne, >> The Roches & the like. Folks not stuck in *style*. Who else? Paul Simon? >> >> Peg Well, altho they are no longer with us (as such) let's keep in mind that the musical evolution that the Beatles went through remains the most extraordinary of all: from skiffle in Liverpool and Chuck Berry covers in the cellars of Hamburg to...!! Their like will not be seen again. B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 19:08:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Joni at Camden WOW! Thanks to the King of concert recordings, I received a tape of the Camden concert today and have just played through the first few songs. Oh wow, wow. (Warning preface here - what follows is NOT a judgment as to "better or worse" performances at all. I generally never regard musical performances in those terms. Rather, I have an appreciation for the "variety of the bloom" under different "soil" and other conditions, so to speak ;-) So anyway, at the start of the tour I was very curious as to how each of the shows would sound with respect to interpretation by the different orchestras and by Joni herself. I have listened to the L.A. Greek show several times. I also listened to some of the Concord show while at the Paz party and noticed differences in Joni's and the orchestra's interpretation between the two. I have not had the good fortune to listen to any of the other shows until now. So here I have the closing slow to juxtapose against the opener and oh boy, the two are significantly *different* in every aspect. This is so wonderful and exciting to experience and I just wanted to rave about it all a bit. Both concerts are totally gorgeous and wonderful but the basic parameters of the arrangements have certainly not been held to and they are different in almost every nuance. In the Camden show Joni changes the notes on the page and tempo throughout, and the orchestra and the trumpet and the sax players often follow their own spirit and it is all fantastic. Incredible!! In a way it was certainly risky of Joni, Mendoza and Klein to just breeze into town and rehearse for a few hours with the locals before show time, but oooweee, it makes for marvelous spontaneity and the feel of hearing real, ALIVE music happening and not the canned, go-through-the-motions performance of a band that has done it over and over by rote in their sleep. I really look forward to hearing more of the shows and appreciating the individuality of each of them. Thanks a million once again to all those who make these recordings available to us here. Kakki NP: Joni at Camden - Stormy Weather ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 22:26:49 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Play Joni Tribute Now This link will directly start up winamp or any other mp3 player you have configured and start playing the songs from the Joni Mitchell Tribute Show. This link can also be put on any web page to add Joni content to it. http://www.myplay.com/mp/playlist/now_playing.jsp?u=607455&plid=151001&start=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 23:31:20 EDT From: "joseph tischner" Subject: favorite cd's Forgive me all. But............ the first time I heard '2Against Nature' I realized that I had not just heard a great album. I decided it was the BEST album I've heard in my lifetime. My friend burned me a copy the day it was released and I haven't tired of it yet. 9 perfect cuts. It's all there in one little CD. I'm truly amazed each time I listen. Janie Runaway's my favorite! Second on my list..............Wild Things Run Fast. (This I just decided after 18 years....................) Like I said, I beg your forgiveness, but it was not I who brought up the Dan. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:32:50 EDT From: PPeterson4@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni at Camden WOW! Thanks for your post. I had the same impression of a kind of pazzazz to the performances, especially the upbeat ones that I hadn't felt in New York and Wallingford but responses to music being the subjective things they are wasn't sure that the pazzazz wasn't coming from me. I would love to hear that tape.....It was the favorite of my three concerts. Paul Peterson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:42:06 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: favorite cd's In a message dated 6/9/00 11:39:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bozjojo@hotmail.com writes: << Forgive me all. But............ the first time I heard '2Against Nature' I realized that I had not just heard a great album. I decided it was the BEST album I've heard in my lifetime. My friend burned me a copy the day it was released and I haven't tired of it yet. >> This makes me sick -- you can proclaim it your favorite album yet you essentially "stole" it. Go BUY a copy, man. Show a little respect for the artists who created your "favorite" CD. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:43:10 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: The Last Time I Saw Dickhead (SJC) There has been some discussion today of Rosie O’Donnell’s weight, and about ill-received comments posted to the JMDL regarding overweight people. In the last couple of months, due to a nightly flirtation with Ben and Jerry and a dependence on the convenience of fast food, I’ve gained ten pounds. I know I’ll lose the weight now that the summer is here, but I feel much more guilty about this situation than I really ought to. This song is for all the allegedly well-meaning friends, the weight-obsessed media, and our shallow culture in general – in short, all the Dickheads who make people feel bad when they don’t conform to bogus ideals. I hope Joni doesn’t sue me, and that her purists don’t bring out the hammer and the boards and the nails… The Last Time I Saw Dickhead The last time I saw Dickhead was detox on April 8th And he told me all hedonists meet the same fate someday Spherical and plump and slurping something off some plastic tray You eat he said you live to consume Go look at your ass it's full of room You like drive-thru's and fast foods and greasy men who sell you All those greasy fries greasy fries When you gonna realize they're only greasy fries Only greasy fries just greasy fries I ate a Quarterpounder and pizza and I pushed Three fries in and then things began to blur And then bizarre babes came by with toothpick bodies that had no thighs And they said "Eat up now it's gettin' on time to purge" "Dickhead, you haven’t really changed" I said It's just that you should try supersizing that brain that’s in your head You got scones in your eyes and the things you like are creamy Eat them, they taste of life so sweet, life so sweet When you gonna get yourself back on red meat? Oh life can be so sweet Life so sweet Dickhead got hooked up to a big pacemaker And it sets off his fruit juicer and his heart defibrillator And he eats fat free now most nights with the IV on And all the good stuff locked up tight I'm gonna fill these love handles out I don't want nobody comin' over to my table I got nothing to talk to anybody about All hedonists pass this way some day Hidin’ out at food courts with plastic trays plastic trays Havin’ some pork chow foon before I get my Buff'lo wings to take away Only a phase these plastic tray days NP: M&M’s ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 21:02:54 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: favorite cd's Why do people get so bent out of shape about burning CD's? It has been the norm for years to pirate cassette recordings. Tell me that you have never owned a pirated tape copy of an album that you didn't buy. (Please accept my apologies if you really never have :) ) I personally am a marketer's dream, and can't stand to have the music without the package, but I don't think that its morally reprehensible to copy music. What is the law? I'm curious. Reuben >From: IVPAUL42@aol.com >Reply-To: IVPAUL42@aol.com >To: bozjojo@hotmail.com, joni@smoe.org >Subject: Re: favorite cd's >Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 23:42:06 EDT > >In a message dated 6/9/00 11:39:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >bozjojo@hotmail.com writes: > ><< Forgive me all. But............ the first time I heard '2Against Nature' >I > realized that I had not just heard a great album. I decided it was the >BEST > album I've heard in my lifetime. My friend burned me a copy the day it >was > released and I haven't tired of it yet. >> > >This makes me sick -- you can proclaim it your favorite album yet you >essentially "stole" it. Go BUY a copy, man. Show a little respect for the >artists who created your "favorite" CD. > >Paul I ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:02:52 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Joni at Camden WOW! From: Kakki > Thanks to the King of concert recordings, I received a tape of the Camden > concert today and have just played through the first few songs. Oh wow, > wow. > I haven't heard the tape, but I'm here to tell you that the Camden concert was among the best concerts I have ever attended. Before that event I held a very low opinion of BSN. in fact my end of a telephone conversation the day before the concert went something like this: "But I just don't like it.....I've certainly given it a chance..... it's not like I'm saying she sucks now.....why does she need 70 pieces?...Wouldn't 5 or 8 be better...and the tempo, man it's deadening. I was soooo wrong ( with, of course, a caveat: the tempo is different than the CD isn't it?) I haven't listened to BSN again since the concert last week, but I can still hear most of the songs as performed live...in my head. That has got to be proof of a great concert. Yesterday I listened to FTR, when the title track came up, I expected to hear the song as performed in Camden, I WANTED to hear it that way. > In a way it was certainly risky of Joni, Mendoza and Klein to just breeze > into town and rehearse for a few hours with the locals before show time, but > oooweee, it makes for marvelous spontaneity and the feel of hearing real, > ALIVE music happening and not the canned, go-through-the-motions performance > of a band that has done it over and over by rote in their sleep. Well said. Patricia O'Connor p.a.oconnor@att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:50:23 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: European jmdlers?? Chris, Indeed! It just means that I'm too busy having my feelings hurt and conducting hate campaigns (!) to respond to your question. After all discussing Joni is why we're here. I'd like to hear a song from the troubled "Dog Eat Dog" set. Let's find out what one of those wonderful Joni lyrics sounds like without synths! I would normally dig out DED and find a good example but I have 37 taped boxes in this apartment, yearning for my attention! - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Chris > what songs > you would like to see done with an orchestra. No one responded, but as I'd > read earlier, that doesn't mean you're not loved or welcomed. :) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:48:49 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Play Joni Tribute Now Thanks Ken! I'll try it once I have broadband service restored. I guess I can take my RealAudio page down now! You've made me obsolete! You dog!! How did you discover those folks? Is your playlist supported free or do you pay a fee? > This link will directly start up winamp or any other > mp3 player you have configured and start playing the > songs from the Joni Mitchell Tribute Show. > This link can also be put on any web page to add > Joni content to it. > http://www.myplay.com/mp/playlist/now_playing.jsp?u=607455&plid=151001&start =1 > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jun 2000 22:52:55 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: favorite cd's Reuben Bell wrote: > Why do people get so bent out of shape about burning CD's? It has been the > norm for years to pirate cassette recordings. Tell me that you have never > owned a pirated tape copy of an album that you didn't buy. (Please accept > my apologies if you really never have :) ) I personally am a marketer's > dream, and can't stand to have the music without the package, but I don't > think that its morally reprehensible to copy music. What is the law? I'm > curious. > > Reuben > The law is copying is OK for personal use ie a tape for the car, etc. Copyright is literally the right to copy, which is reserved for the copyright holder; either the creator of the work, or the entity assigned by her/him. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:51:11 -0500 From: Richard Rice Subject: Re: CD Tracks. Thanks to everyone involved in making the two Joni sites so incredible. This is the finest company anyone could ever hope to be surrounded by. Last night, I was up into the wee hours working, with my head phones on, listening to DJRD. My boom box, which gets trouped to and fro, looked a tad bit worn and grimy. Potatoe chip crumbs in the cd well! I was certain the disk was going to skip but it sailed along nicely. --DJRD is such a great rhythmic cut. I especially enjoyed Paprika Plains, trying to envision how nice it would sound, added to the new recording Joni is working on!!-- Well, around the time The Silky Veils of Ardor queues up, the sound went really weird on my player. I was convinced for a moment that the box was simultaneously playing several songs on the disk all at once. ??? It took a while to figure out what was going on: My player had isolated one of the over dubed guitar tracks and muted all the others, including Joni's vocal. This track ran up front in the mix, clear as a bell, while the other tracks with vocal played muted behind it. It was an amazing musical experience! A wonderful lesson in accompanyment and harmony. My question is, how to get more!!!! ?????? It was very reserved play. Precise, yet very elegant. There are moments in the song where she would play but a single ringing note for several bars, followed by more silence, then break into a flourish of melody to punctuate the end of a phrase. The amazing thing is how perfectly this track added to the structure of the whole. It was like hearing Joni play, really play, for the first time. I loved it. So, does anyone know of equipment (inexpensive, of course) that would allow one to isolate tracks like this on a cd besides potatoe chips and grime? I would love to dissect the entire album like this. Think of the fun it would be to hear all those guitar parts in Cotton Ave. separate from each other? Or better still, to isolate the magic of John Guerin's drum masterpiece at the end of Paprika Plains, then listen to Joni's piano play without the orchestral elements behind her. This would be sooooo cool. Almost as much fun as music lessons from Mike Domyancich or Paz. Should anyone have a clue as to how one might perform this magic, please fill us in. In the meanwhile, I think I will go spread some peanut butter on the lens of my cd player... John in Dekalb, loving Joni; np BSN in my head... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 02:44:48 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: city, jungle, suburb, SJC Wow Bruce, Or as Kakki would say, "Oh my, Bruce. Oh my." I love this type of writing. I call it lit-crit. Literary critique. This is the kind of depth that I find so rich and rewarding in Joni's lyrics, her stories. Your post is a perfect example of what's so rewarding (to me) about the List. Lamadoo np: "DJRD", and no, I'm not making it up. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "B Merrill" > Last week I suggested that the most important theme that rendered Hissing a > "total work" was the chronology within, the way that the songs were > positioned in sequence on the arc of life. > > (Since then someone described how her current show is also structured as a > chronology, in this case the chronology of a generic love affair. But they > were not enjoying how explicit and didactic she was in guiding her audience > along the chronology...) > > Now I would submit that the second most important theme, and the one that > indicates > why it is "graphically" a "total work" is the theme that she puts before us > when we first pick up this creation of hers: the triangle of city, jungle, > suburb-- a triangle which is both a matter of location and culture. > > On the cover we find: the city in the background, and a jungle scene (with > snake) in the foreground. It's an implausible dualism. (Someone from > Tasmania suggested that the city was growing out of the jungle, which might > make sense from a Tasmanian perspective. But while cities grow out of the > jungle in Asia and South American and Africa, they do not do so in North > America, Joni's part of the world.) > > On the back is an affluent suburban enclave, a little island of wealth. > This is not located within the jungle (in North America), but nonetheless > located within the green of nature, and so is a kind of intermediary place > between the undeveloped and the urban. > > When we listen to Hissing, we find out (as the curious title has already > hinted) that the dualism which the cover present us with, is not as acute > as we supposed: > > Firstly, the jungle and the snake are in the city-- in a metaphoric sense. > The disruptive "Jungle Line" is about stumbling upon the jungle and snake > in the city. Within the arc of life that Joni sets out, it pertains to > initial adulthood: Hitting urban adulthood hard, the innocent girl (from > the Canadian plains) stumbling down into the bohemian urban jungly > nether-world, a world of primitive predation and primitive, addictive > self-destruction. The underlying jungle drums signal a musical and lyrical > disruption of the happier days of "In France." Now you suddenly realize > that this isn't Court and Spark, Pt. II. "I don't think we're in Alberta > anymore, Toto!" > > Secondly, the snake is in the suburbs: the lawns are hissing. The idyllic > enclave turns out to be the site of a troubled marriage, the tense, > materialist, "fading," suburban circumstance... Joni presents marriage as > essentially a matter of materialism and > possession (esp. the possession of the wife). In sum, a bad outcome, > exchanging youthful unmarried romance for mere things. > > The question remains, has Joni made it to her idyllic suburban Southern > California enclave and successfully escaped the snake? Well, she isn't > married, is she? She's still pursuing the busy romances of the unencumbered > celebrity. We find her in her suburban pool, but lolling about in her > bikini, outside of marriage, still "shining" like the gorgeous erotic > apparition that Harry determined to reel in when he saw her emerging from > the pool. Nonetheless, she can hear the lawns hissing. So, are these her > neighbor's lawns, our her own? > > Bruce Merrill > > PS One of the great strengths of this album lies in Joni's ability to move > from the observed, generic, third person view to the autobiographical, and > back again. The more or less autobiographical songs in Hissing being: In > France (yes?), the Boho Dance, Sweet Bird (most autobiographical and most > liked, I believe), Shadows and Light. I'm sure this back and forth is also > in evidence in the manner in which she approaches her current show. It's a > measure of her surprising intelligence. Go Joni go! > > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #240 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?