From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #229 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Friday, June 2 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 229 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: TNT Tribute/Richard Thompson/Joni/Gene Shay [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Detroit gathering-show [Siresorrow@aol.com] Gene Shay CANCELLED ["Paul Castle" ] Re: No One Prepared Me [Vince Lavieri ] Re: No One Prepared Me ["cassy" ] Re: My thoughts about the Clarkston, MI gig [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Pine Knob Performance (long, long, long) [TerryM2442@aol.com] Hejira [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: No One Prepared Me [Phyliss Ward ] Detroit Show and Jmdlers [Siresorrow@aol.com] mama-mia, what the...?! ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Hejira ["Mike Hicks" ] No One Prepared Me [Steve Dulson ] DED [Steve Dulson ] Re: DED ["James L. Leonard" ] Open message to Judy Collins [Bounced Message ] Re: DED [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: DED ["cassy" ] Re: DED ["Alison Einerson" ] Early Joni info please, Pat [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: DED ["James L. Leonard" ] Hissing, and the arc of life [B Merrill ] Re: Chicago concert: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 at the Rosemont Theatre [Sire] Re: DED [SMEBD@aol.com] Re: DED [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Download mp3s from TNT ["Ken (slarty)" ] Re: No Subject [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Hejira Anon....and on ["Steve Mitchell" ] Coming Down from N.O. [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Hissing, and the arc of life ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: DED (Don's dander is officially UP) [Don Rowe ] Re: DED [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED ["Alison Einerson" ] Re: Hissing, and the arc of life [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Joni photo from New York magazine [Catherine McKay ] Re: DED (Don's dander is officially UP) ["Alison Einerson" > yea, y'all were sleepy heads. i tried to find some coffee friends that morning but they were all passed out. and yes, it was a pleasure to add shwanker to my litany. it was nice to still hear a new one after all these years. made me feel young. i'm still getting my thoughts together and i'll post them later. sue c, you are someone i want to hang out with all the time. i love your speed connection...sight/thought/speak. 'son of pig.' oh yes, and amy, one of those cigarettes left a shitty taste in my mouth the next morning. probably those ultra lights... pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:27:28 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Gene Shay CANCELLED Unfortunately, the Gene Shay appearance on WXPN Philadelphia today has been cancelled. PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 07:59:47 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: No One Prepared Me Howard's light did indeed come on before FTR but it came on again in FTR and did as I said. As Laura, Jody, and I were in the first row balcony, it was very easy to see. In Detroit, I was in in the 5th row center when FTR was sung and as I was looking for the spotlight, I saw it but figured for those down center front, it would have been harder to pick up on, as the perspective was different. But Howard, um, the light, the empty spotlight, was there on the empty microphone as FTR ended. Remember how in Chicago Joni kind of slowly exited the stage after she finished the lyric on FTR? That was when the empty spotlight on empty mic thing was happening. In Detroit, as she left more quickly, it didn't linger but it was sure there. Vince Howard Motyl wrote: > In a message dated 6/1/00 5:46:20 PM US Central Standard Time, > writes: > > < or it's > the first time she's done it! > > >Bob > > Um, Vince, > ah, I was at the Chicago concert and I didn't see any spotlights going > through the crowd. At one point, a spotlight facing the crowd, on the > right side of the stage, in the second section back, went on but it was > lighting a microphone in the audience. (I thought someone was going to > sing with her, and then I thought she was going to go into the crowd to > sing!) But I don't remember if it was in FTR. The light went on and > sat still before going out. It looked like it was a mistake. It didn't > move around the crowd and then settle back on the stage. At least not > in the arena I was sitting in. > > Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:17:31 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: No One Prepared Me Vince wrote: >In Detroit, I was in in the 5th row center when FTR was sung and as I was >looking for the spotlight, I saw it but figured for those down center >front, it would have been harder to pick up on, as the perspective was >different. Hi Vince (you handsome dev... errrm Reverend you) You are absolutely correct, from where we were sitting, 13th row center, it was obvious that the spotlight was empty, it was a very poignant and deliberate moment. Thom looked over at me and commented on the content of the lyrics of the song, saying how bitter she must have been at the time she wrote it and how effectively the empty spotlight punctuated the meaning of the song. So it wasn't just you who noticed it, in fact I recall one other person from another show mentioning it briefly in their post but I don't recall who it was. Cassy N.P. My coffee maker spitting out it's last drops, calling my name. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 08:32:24 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: My thoughts about the Clarkston, MI gig Phyllis, Detroit set list, as I remember it: started same as Chicago, through ACOY and Don't Go to Strangers... then rather than Sometimes I'm Happy, she did Be Cool... but when the set list deviated, I freaked out as I knew there were going to be deletions, so I could be wrong. The second portion opened with Stormy Weather, then BSN, Hejira, FTR. That was that. (the Rev) Vince (Phyliss, it was great meeting you!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 08:47:57 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #303 > Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 01:45:24 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #303 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > Yeah? And? I remember discovering a few years after that that my mentor had > discovered Hejira on his own. His favorite? Amelia. And how dumb I felt > when he had to point out the reference to Amelia Ehrhart! The song had > worked perfectly fine for me with out the reference. And of course my joy at > hearing the new version in concert. Man, can I feel it. In a different world, in a different setting, but at about the same time. I felt some of those same things as I heard it for the first time. And, at that time I had no idea what the songs really meant. I just loved what I heard on that little dorm stereo. As I grew so did the album Hejira. It is timeless. I never tire of it. It sends me right back when I put it on. Things start making sense. It is incredible. Thanks for sharing that with us. That's why I like this list! Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:33:04 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Pine Knob Performance (long, long, long) Oooh, what wonderful posts I've been reading about the Detroit concert. I won't go into the details, as Cassy, Sue and others have already done a wonderful job of sharing those with you already. I just wanted to express how wonderful it was to meet up with Joni pals to share a magical night together. Alas, no Joni siting for us! I'm still trying to figure out where she's been hiding on this tour! We DID see some of Lionel Richie's entourage, though. Anyway... It was a great deal of fun singing away with the Joni Motown Choir. My, we had a collection of great voices! Not a single out of tune one. And Cassy...you did hit that high C spot on. Did you know that Cassy is actually from England and still has a lovely accent? Back to the concert...am I the only one who REALLY loved For The Roses?? Though we missed out on two songs due to Joni's late arrival, I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of the show. I have to agree with Cassy that Joni didn't seem quite herself. Her chatting in between songs seemed less spontaneous than in previous concerts. I think that delayed flight did affect her mood big time. But it didn't affect her singing. Wow! When she let loose with Hejira, you could see Klein grinning with surprise. She looked like she was possessed! You go GIRL! Yes, there were "arseholes" in the audience, but the worst were the ones both next to us and behind us who wouldn't SHUT UP during the concert. Even Amy's evil eye stare-down didn't seem to faze them. Grrrr.... Anyway, yes...I couldn't even talk about the show afterward. I could drink a case of you, Joni, but I was barely on my feet afterward. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:33:45 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Hejira <> Maybe this is pretentious on my part, but I've been thinking the same way about BSN...when I first heard Hejira, I was 18 and had NO idea what these songs dealt with emotionally, only that they were brilliant and I HAD to find out why. It's taken me 25 years and I'm still working on it. Likewise, I think BSN will need time to fully appreciate. Joni's 15 years older than me so she's coming from a different age & stage. I foresee myself in the future playing this record and really appreciating it fully as I've done with Hejira. Bob NP: Joni, The Knitting Story from PWWAM ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 06:40:09 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: No One Prepared Me Howard, Glad you made it to the concert. I was wondering...we missed you at the pre and post parties. We Californians (coyote and I) were hoping to meet all of you Chicago area folks! Phyliss Howard Motyl wrote: > In a message dated 6/1/00 5:46:20 PM US Central Standard Time, > writes: > > < or it's > the first time she's done it! > > >Bob > > Um, Vince, > ah, I was at the Chicago concert and I didn't see any spotlights going > through the crowd. At one point, a spotlight facing the crowd, on the > right side of the stage, in the second section back, went on but it was > lighting a microphone in the audience. (I thought someone was going to > sing with her, and then I thought she was going to go into the crowd to > sing!) But I don't remember if it was in FTR. The light went on and > sat still before going out. It looked like it was a mistake. It didn't > move around the crowd and then settle back on the stage. At least not > in the arena I was sitting in. > > Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:00:09 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Detroit Show and Jmdlers i thought the detroit show was wonderful. she was late. she was a little stressed as she came out. but she became very joyful and exuberant as she progressed. and i thought she was hot in that black jetson thing she wore late in the show. i sat alone because i really made the decision to go just a few days before so i bought a ticket at the door. i sat in row p, and i can't do that math right now, but i was about 100 feet from the stage. i thought the trumpet player was excellent and his notes cut through the haze of the orchestra and penetrated my heart. the sax player was liquid fluid and the two together were smooth. i also thought the sound of the whole orchestra was very deep and held some bass that made their sound very big. i sat the whole time on the edge of my seat. i stood several times and yelled out loud. all the periphery of other people stopped when the show started. and my only thought afterwards is that if it were not for the nudge of a dear friend, i would not have gone and i would have missed something i was meant to see. now all the people from the list that i met....they were all great. cassy tells a heart warming story of her endurance through illness and her magical ability to capitilize on love. vince was very much the warm person, and quite soft spoken. softer than i had imagined. kelly has great patellas and keeps lots of pictures of her children in her purse. amy amelia keeps the picture of her with joni from last year which she wrote about, glued in the front of her copy of joni's book. in the very front. terry m plays the piano with style. she never saw me listening, but she's wonderful at the keyboard and looked at home there at the piano in the lobby of a beautiful hotel. and she has a great relationship with her daughter that was very touching to witness. and sue cameron would be the best company i can imagine on a hejira. it would not be a boring trip sue. and she can smell a cop a mile away. and that can come in handy on the kind of hejira i'd want to have. there were other people as well that were beautiful to meet and i can't remember all the names and that tells me i did not do a good enough job listening to everyone. oh yes, jim lamadoo was definately there taking pictures. and when i got back today to my office, i found the tape he had made for me of the tribute. thanks jim. but overall it was very clear that everyone there shared some common thread that was not fully understood, but was clearly felt. and i could say one last thing about the experience of the this entire past week. before the show, while waiting on joni, i got a piece of pizza and a beer and sat on these steps and looked at the gazillion people walk by my eyes. detroit is big city. there are alot of interesting people there. and franky, it made my mind spin. and when i landed back in little old savannah, in its steamy haze and drippy moss, i realized that some new things had come back with me to this little town from my experience of joni mitchell this past week and maybe even since the tnt tribute. and i also realized while still on the plane, that some of these things don't fit here. but they are here nonetheless, and it's too late now to worry about how they are going to fit. and i like that a lot. pat np. rt black crow...kick ass ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:09:26 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: mama-mia, what the...?! things like this can only be heard in israel! well - here in israel we have a very bad and very sad case of husbands beating abusing and somtimes killing their wives and children. it's got so very sad and bad here - that it's now known as a national disease. now here it comes - - i was listning to the radio yesterday, and a special progrem about this problem was on the dial. "stars" from all over the world were talking to an israeli "radio-star" about this. most of them were intelectuals and novelists and so on. then, out of the blue, came sinead oconor. sinead is dealing with this sort of problem for many years all over the world, and she speaks freely of her own pain and loss and scars as a child who's been abused by her mother. the woman who was talking to sinead asked her about her case, and sinead spoke. the woman from the radio said to the listners that "we'll now hear sinead's song "fire on babylon" which is her most known song about abusers and being abused", or something like that, and the song was played, while the israeli woman asked sinead to hold on so she'll talk to her at the end of the song. the song ended, the woman said something like "this was very brave of you to speak like this about your mother" and then sinead said - "this is not about my mother. this is about joni mitchell". the woman laughed - i swear to god, she laughed, and said something like "we know, sinead, that sometimes you're..." - but she could'nt finish cause sinead silenced her by saying "listen, you fool - (folks, i swear that she said listen you fool) - this song is not about my mother. it's about joni mitchell!". the woman was brave enough to ask sinead if she's once again using the media for privat complaxes, and asked her something like "if this song is realy about joni mitchell - than why do you sing in it "look what she did to her son" and "she took my father from my life" and more from that song, and told sinead that this interview's going nowhere and that sinead "should know that joni never had a son and has never abused sinead, as far as she knows". sinead said "yeah right" - i swear she just said "yeah right" and hung up. i rushed to the nearest music store and found the cd "universal mother" where "fire on babylon" is. while listning to the whole thing, i remeberd the on one event i've seen on the mtv or was it vh1 sinead was given a reward by joni, and then i rememberd a "go to hell" sort of interview i read in a british magazin where sinead spoke "go to hell" sort of words about peter gabriel. i wanted to print the words of "fire on babylon" for you but it's too much for me to handle. i've noticed a member on the list called yael, and yael can only be an israeli name, so maybe yael heard it too. that's it. yours, an unabused child. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:52:48 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: Hejira > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com > Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:33:45 EDT > Subject: Hejira > To: m_hicks@aiken.k12.sc.us > Cc: joni@smoe.org > < heard it for the first time. And, at that time I had no idea what > the songs really meant. >> > > Maybe this is pretentious on my part, but I've been thinking the same way about BSN...when I first heard Hejira, I was 18 and had NO idea what these songs dealt with emotionally, only that they were > > Likewise, I think BSN will need time to fully appreciate. Joni's 15 years older than me so she's coming from a different age & stage. I foresee myself in the future playing this record and really app> > Bob > > NP: Joni, The Knitting Story from PWWAM Yep, me too. Mike > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:08:33 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: No One Prepared Me The Rev Vince wrote: >The stunning visual at the end of the concert....she >departs the stage while the spotlight grows brighter and fixes on the >empty stage and suddenly lone microphone. It gave me chills in both >Chicago and Detroit. Did anyone mention this in a concert review and I >missed it? Ummmm, well, yes, it was discussed a bit - you were probably so out of it with Joni Anticipation Frenzy (JAF - a new acronym!) that it blew right by you. :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 09:21:40 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: DED Julian wrote: The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so confused, they don't know what's happening. :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:39:26 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: DED I'm one. Who's the other? :-) Now...what's DED again? "Boston Jim" > Julian wrote: > > The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) > > Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so confused, they don't > know what's happening. :) > > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 10:35:35 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Open message to Judy Collins Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 00:19:59 -0400 From: vivienne j wildes I will validate for you that there are some wags out there who really have nothing better to do in their lives than to create trouble. There were many missing from the Joni Tribute. You, noticably. That's all. This is a great opportunity for you to do another hit. Best, Vivienne Wildes - -------------------------- Vivienne J. Wildes PhD Candidate Hotel, Restaurant and Institutional MGMT Penn State University University Park, PA 16802 email: vwildes@psu.edu phone: (814) 238-3447 865-1851 fax: (814) 238-8424 - ----------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 12:51:25 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: DED <> Heck, I thought Don was BOTH of them! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:07:41 -0400 From: "cassy" Subject: Re: DED Boston Jim said >I'm one. Who's the other? :-) >Now...what's DED again? I think he must mean me Jim. I'm a huge DED (Dog Eat Dog) fan, but I swear Don Rowe said he's a fan too so there must be three of us! Cassy N.P. Terence Trent Darby ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:29:52 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: DED i am coming out of the closet as a tried and true die hard DED fan. i love the song DED, i love GooD Friends. i even love Smoking. so there. the count stands at four. alison e. in slc. np: lucy kaplansky....turn the lights back on from Ten Year Night, which is in constant rotation. this cd is amazing. it came out last year. she is really incredible!! - ---------- >From: "James L. Leonard" >To: "Steve Dulson" , >Subject: Re: DED >Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2000, 1:39 PM > >I'm one. Who's the other? :-) > >Now...what's DED again? > >"Boston Jim" > > >> Julian wrote: >> >> The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) >> >> Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so confused, they don't >> know what's happening. :) >> >> Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:26:39 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Early Joni info please, Pat Hey, *shit-list* Pat ;-D, I'd like some detailed info from Joni's early Detriot days. I'm planning on visiting with Sid tommorrow, the guy I know that would play on the same bill as Chuck and Joni at Detroit's The Poison Apple club. (Well, I'll try to visit with him tommorrow if the Blazers don't lose to the Lakers tonight in Portland. If they do, wisdom tells me not to interact with anyone for a couple of days! ;-) What I want to know before I sit down and visit with Sid is if his time with Joni preceded your's. Sid's extremely laid back, so I'm not sure we'll be talking in terms of actual calender dates, probably more helpful would be doing this in terms of Joni points of reference. Like what songs had she written by the time you knew her and if she played in her different tunings yet? (Sorry if this is redundant for some, but I never read the guitar threads not being a player myself.) Just in a brief conversation I've had with him before, Sid insists she still played standard tunings when he knew her and that Chuck had already become the obvious jerk. I'll also try to find out if she were living in "The Castle" at the time. (Thanks for posting that article Cassy!) I'm also hoping he may have kept some flyers with his band billed along with Chuck and Joni. (I'd get that scanned to distribute.) Anything else I should key on? I'll ask also if Joni would ever refer to Kelly to him. Did she you? Or was it hush-hush except to her very closest friends? Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:42:43 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: DED Okay! Cassy, Alison, and Don make it four of us. ("and, you know, there may be more") While we're on the subject of DED, does anyone know if "Impossible Dreamer" was written in tribute to John Lennon? I've always wondered, but, until recently, I had no one to ask. The reference to "Give Peace A Chance" is what made me think that. Thanks, "Boston Jim" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:40:01 -0400 From: B Merrill Subject: Hissing, and the arc of life Hello to all Hissing Fans, In her notes for HOSL, Joni announces: "This is a total work, conceived graphically, musically, lyrically and accidentally-- as a whole...." I find that the most important whole that Hissing sets before us is the arc of life, of living a life. The chronology of "Hissing," as based upon the arc of life, unfolds as follows: 1) In France they kiss on Main Street. Older teenagers: wild youth in the wild group, charged adolescent romanticism in the hurtling car. Push-up bras & Brando-like patter.... ("Such, such were the joys!") (Musically /Stylistically this song looks back to "Court and Spark." So that when you begin the album for the first time you think, "Hey, she's picking up where she left off..." In C&S, it is mirrored by "Trouble Child" which in its jazzy musical quality and subject matter of anxiety, confusion and imprisonment looks forward towards "Hissing." In other words, "In France" could easily have been located in Court and Spark, just as "Trouble Child" could be moved into Hissing-- where it would be positioned between Harry's House and Sweet Bird?) 2) The Jungle Line. Initial adulthood: Hitting urban adulthood hard, the innocent girl (from the Canadian plains?) stumbling down into the bohemian urban nether-world, a world of primitive predation and primitive, addictive self-destruction. Also a musical and lyrical disruption of the happier days of "In France." Now you suddenly realize that this isn't Court and Spark, Pt. II. Moreover, "I don't think we're in Alberta anymore, Toto!" 3-5) Edith and the Kingpin, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, Shades of Scarlett Conquering. Early adulthood: the power-plays of sex & romance, domination & subservience engaged in by single men and women. Courtship as a hissing battleground, rather than a happy sparking. 6-8) The Hissing of Summer Lawns, The Boho Dance, Harry's House/Centerpiece. Middle adulthood: marriage and materialism, the ominous, tense, married, materialist "fading," suburban circumstance... While Joni is a committed participant in Southern California suburban affluence (as the inner photo and caption makes plain), where she can hear the hissing of her neighbor's lawns (and her own as well!) while lolling about in her bikini, she is outside of this kind of marriage, and observes it. Being on the outside, perhaps she inclines towards soured grapes, and sees the married world as essentially a matter of materialism and possession (esp. the possession of the wife). In sum, a bad outcome, exchanging youthful unmarried romance for mere things. "You have been warned." On the other hand, the autobiographical (rather than third person, observed) song is the intervening Boho Dance, where Joni indicates her own attitudes to middle-aged materialism: She will avoid being claimed either by the suburbs or the Boho, by the streets or the glamor gown. Wise Joni. 9. Sweet Bird. Later Adulthood: Physical decline, waving goodbye to "the sweet bird of youth" (a Tennessee Williams' play), and saying hello to confusion, losing one's mind, and relativism, losing one's footing. (This is the most emphatically immediate and autobiographical song of the album.) 10 Shadows and Light. A closing larger (retrospective?) view of the mixed, equivocal nature of human life, our existence here, our mortal coil. The whole that I'm pointing here pertains to a lyrical coherence, as opposed to the graphical, musical, and accidental whole which Joni also alerts us to. The biggest puzzle here is: In what regard is Hissing a musical whole?? Since, with respect to its music (styles, instrumentation), it is the most diverse of all of Joni's albums, n'est-ce-pas?? I'm looking forward to hearing Jason Marsalis wailing away through this one. A friendly off-list spirit reports: >Jason did the following: In France they kiss on Main Street/ Edith and the >Kingpin/ Shades of scarlett conquering/ Hissing/ Dreamland according to the >list I got from the show. >The concert was recorded and Michael is looking into getting it pressed so he >can use it as a fundraising vehicle. Welcome to June! Get those sprinklers out, Bruce M. PS Sorry to ask such a naive question, but what is Joni's marital status, past or current? Did some guy "real" her in? I thought she'd never married, but then I read these references to her referring to Mr. Klein as her "husband." A joke? Along with algebra, I don't know much about the Joni nitty-gritty. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:51:50 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Chicago concert: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 at the Rosemont Theatre In a message dated 6/1/00 2:49:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, PitassiM@WEAC.org writes: << I was very sorry to read in Valerie's account that the Michigan show last night was delayed and truncated due to Joni's late plane--and tarnished somewhat, perhaps, by loud, unappreciative audience members. But I echo Phyllis's sentiment that the Chicago audience was extremely respectful. >> i sat next to a man from san francisco at the detroit show. he has followed the tour and saw the shows in san fran, la, chicago, and detroit. he said that he liked the one in san fran the best becuase the people were nice. he said that he was surprised how hard some of the l.a. people were, ( he does not list so he doesn't know kakki ) and he said the very same thing here above about the chicago show. we talked about the list. he knew of it. he knows wally's site. he asked me when the last time was i saw her and i said 1976 and he said...that was hejira. and i think he was right. he likes lucinda williams, billlie holiday, etc. all names we have seen a zillion times on this list. i suggested he check it out, but he was pretty sure he was not meant to be a lister. but he did like the chicago show while remaining true to his home town of san francisco. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:57:19 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: Re: DED In a message dated 6/2/00 1:31:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alisone@kirkhams.com writes: << i love the song DED, i love GooD Friends. i even love Smoking. so there. >> Make that 5. I LOVE "Smoking"--it shows a wonderful sense of humor! Stephen ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 10:58:19 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: DED >I'm one. Who's the other? :-) >Now...what's DED again? Count me in! According to my mailbox, we're at five and climbing quick! DED is my favorite Joni 80's album, in fact. I love Fiction and Shiny Toys.... they perk me up everytime. Tax Free, Ethiopia, and Impossible Dreamer are faves too. Only track I really don't care for is Lucky Girl. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:07:45 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Download mp3s from TNT Brenda was kind enough to set up accounts for the JMDL on 2 different web sites as of her post yesterday. I've uploaded 14 songs from the TNT broadcast which can be accessed by anyone on the list. They can be played directly from the website or you can download them. http://myplay.com email: jmdl-files@mail.com password: hejira The allowed size of our uploads is 3 gigs so in the future it would be possible to upload all the tape trees there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:13:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: No Subject - --- "P. Henry" wrote: > Catherine wrote: > >Wot? You? Lie? To us? Shirley Yoo jest!> > > > ...and don't call me Shirley!!! ;o) > Oops - somebody's been watching too many "Airplane" movies! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:15:23 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: DED "James L. Leonard" wrote: > While we're on the subject of DED, does anyone know if "Impossible Dreamer" > was written in tribute to John Lennon? I've always wondered, but, until > recently, I had no one to ask. The reference to "Give Peace A Chance" is > what made me think that. Joni is asked that question on some interview and says that it was not about any one particular person but too many dreamers. I'm sure however, that John was one of them. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 02:46:32 +0100 From: "Steve Mitchell" Subject: Re: Hejira Anon....and on Julian wrote: > ...Blue is a great album but it's so much shorter than Hejira...sometimes I > find myself wishing that I was in the Blue Anonymous group . . . . When I first got Blue on CD I used to loop the intro to The Last Time I Saw Richard and play it for hours! - --Stevie ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 11:31:25 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Coming Down from N.O. Please tell me I am not the only one who is having trouble coming down from Paz Fest, New Orleans. I'm having trouble concentrating on the real world and getting some much needed work done. What a life changing event it was! Phyliss, off to her Friday standing lunch date with her artsy friends where she plans on dominating the conversation with stories of the past week. : - ) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:34:43 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Hissing, and the arc of life Hi, Bruce. I loved your analysis of Hissing, and think it's somewhat akin to my own (but *far* better expressed by you). Where do you fall on the Kingpin issue? I see (or saw) him as the local rich guy...the "small town big man"...maybe a great-looking former college football star-type to boot...the prized catch of the Edith circle. Other JMDLers see him as a pimp, or an underworld figure. I also used to think those things about the Kingpin, in the early years of my listening, but it upset the "storyline" I finally concocted. Unlike you, I saw the girl of "In France" as Edith, and the rest of the protagonists in the songs on Hissing as Edith, too, as she progresses through life. To that end, the Kingpin and Harry became the same person. (Granted, it's a stretch.) "Boston Jim" > 3-5) Edith and the Kingpin, Don't Interrupt the Sorrow, Shades of Scarlett > Conquering. > > Early adulthood: the power-plays of sex & romance, domination & > subservience engaged in by single men and women. Courtship as a hissing > battleground, rather than a happy sparking. > > Bruce M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:41:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DED - --- Penny wrote: > >I'm one. Who's the other? :-) > >Now...what's DED again? > > > DED is my favorite Joni 80's album, in fact. I love > Fiction and Shiny > Toys.... they perk me up everytime. Tax Free, > Ethiopia, and Impossible > Dreamer are faves too. Only track I really don't > care for is Lucky > Girl. > I've been listening to DED a bit lately. I only had it on vinyl and didn't have a turntable to play it on. Recently I bought a cheapo boombox with a turntable on it and dubbed DED and WTRF onto tape. Unfortunately many of my LPs, after spending years in the basement and being lugged from one house to the next, have warped - anyone have any idea whether you can de-warp a record? Anyway, I've been listening to DED and WTRF. I now like DED better than WTRF - it used to be the other way around. BTW, I really *like* "Lucky Girl" - it's got this really neat syncopation. I think this would sound tres cool if she did it with a big band or a jazz combo. I also feel that if she re-did the whole of WTRF but more accoustically, it could sound a lot better - IMO there's too much "electricity" in it. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 11:41:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: DED (Don's dander is officially UP) - --- Steve Dulson wrote: > Julian wrote: > > The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) > > Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so > confused, they don't > know what's happening. :) Sorry Steve, I know you've heard all this before, but the post is under your signature, so for the benefit of the newbies: The Defense of Dog-Eat-Dog Now them's some fightin' words! First of all, Julian, the "DED people" as you call us -- get it right -- we are all members of DEDMAS: The Dog-Eat-Dog Musical Appreciation Society. And we do NOT have it "easy" as you put it ... It's not an easy thing to like DED. It is not "popular". It takes a strong, sensitive, literate and technically appreciative soul to understand what Joni Mitchell did with that album. What's THAT you Blue-worshippers ask? Joni Mitchell claimed ownership of the keybaord/synthesizer on DED, just as she did the alternately-tuned guitar in her early career. Those chords, those figures, those sounds she herself helped design, and played HERSELF ... for anyone to suggest that the results are brilliant, unique and 100% Joni Mitchell is to suggest that "The Last Time I Saw Richard" is a so-so confessional song. "Over-produced! Over-produced!" they all howl in the hallowed halls of Acousticia University! Why? Because the richness of the orchestral textures in the electronic treatments of the songs created, for the first time, a lusher, more intricate Joni Mitchell sound that any of us had ever heard before? Or is it that you just never thought of, or listened to it that way? "Noisy and cluttered," say those of the Inner Circle with Doctorate sheepskins in 'For the Roses' hanging on their walls. Pooh and bah! Noisier than the cloying harmonica blasts on STAS? More cluttered than the intricate sonics of 'Cotton Avenue'? Not for those with the courage to listen closely. You know, more than a few folks on this list have been reduced to whining about Joni's perm once we at DEDMAS are through with 'em. Long live Dog Eat Dog ... a jewel in Joni's crown! God I feel better! ;-) Don Rowe ===== "I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are others hiding history from ME." - -- Shelby Foote __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:51:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: DED - --- Phyliss Ward wrote: > "James L. Leonard" wrote: > > > While we're on the subject of DED, does anyone > know if "Impossible Dreamer" > > was written in tribute to John Lennon? I've always > wondered, but, until > > recently, I had no one to ask. The reference to > "Give Peace A Chance" is > > what made me think that. > > Joni is asked that question on some interview and > says that it was not about > any one particular person but too many dreamers. > I'm sure however, that John > was one of them. > It sounds like a composite to me - it could refer to a bunch of people. Another lister had mentioned Martin Luther King at one time. If you listen to the words, she could be talking about many idealistic people. Anyway, I prefer to see it that way, rather than it being about just one person. ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:04:35 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: DED okay, i don't remember which interview i heard it in, but i remember her saying she did have John Lennon in mind when she wrote the song. I have to put it on now and listen to it specifically, but it seems like there's a specific reference to him in the song. anyone have their copy of DED handy? i left mine at home. alison e in slc. - ---------- >From: Phyliss Ward >To: "James L. Leonard" >Subject: Re: DED >Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2000, 12:15 PM > >"James L. Leonard" wrote: > >> While we're on the subject of DED, does anyone know if "Impossible Dreamer" >> was written in tribute to John Lennon? I've always wondered, but, until >> recently, I had no one to ask. The reference to "Give Peace A Chance" is >> what made me think that. > >Joni is asked that question on some interview and says that it was not about >any one particular person but too many dreamers. I'm sure however, that John >was one of them. > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:55:51 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hissing, and the arc of life <> Ditto for me, although I'm having a hard time fitting Boho Dance into it - it's sort of another issue, even though it's a subset of the maturity from idealistic youth to maturity... But a great post, very well thought out! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:58:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: Joni photo from New York magazine - --- Deb Messling wrote: > Here's the beautiful picture of Joni in the May 29 > issue of New York magazine: > http://www.enter.net/~messling/newyorkmag.html Deb, I finally got around to opening up the link you posted - I often save these kinds of posts for later, kind of like dessert after the meal, so I don't get around to them until after I've read the "news". What a gorgeous woman! If I didn't love her so much, I'd have to hate her for being so beautiful! ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 14:59:42 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: DED (Impossible Dreamer) I have to agree with you and Phyliss, Catherine. The lyrics, when taken en totale, didn't strike me as being specific enough to be solely about Lennon. There was that "Give Peace A Chance" line, though, and it always kept me from knowing for sure. "Boston Jim" > > It sounds like a composite to me - it could refer to a > bunch of people. Another lister had mentioned Martin > Luther King at one time. If you listen to the words, > she could be talking about many idealistic people. > Anyway, I prefer to see it that way, rather than it > being about just one person. > > Catherine (in Toronto) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:14:09 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: DED (Don's dander is officially UP) god i love that i have don on my side. can this guy postulate or what???? alison e. - ---------- >From: Don Rowe >To: Steve Dulson >Subject: Re: DED (Don's dander is officially UP) >Date: Fri, Jun 2, 2000, 12:41 PM > >--- Steve Dulson wrote: >> Julian wrote: >> >> The DED people have it easy is what I think;-) >> >> Oh, don't worry about them. They're both so >> confused, they don't >> know what's happening. :) > >Sorry Steve, I know you've heard all this before, but >the post is under your signature, so for the benefit >of the newbies: > >The Defense of Dog-Eat-Dog > >Now them's some fightin' words! First of all, Julian, >the "DED people" as you call us -- get it right -- we >are all members of DEDMAS: The Dog-Eat-Dog Musical >Appreciation Society. And we do NOT have it "easy" as >you put it ... > >It's not an easy thing to like DED. It is not >"popular". It takes a strong, sensitive, literate and >technically appreciative soul to understand what Joni >Mitchell did with that album. > >What's THAT you Blue-worshippers ask? > >Joni Mitchell claimed ownership of the >keybaord/synthesizer on DED, just as she did the >alternately-tuned guitar in her early career. Those >chords, those figures, those sounds she herself helped >design, and played HERSELF ... for anyone to suggest >that the results are brilliant, unique and 100% Joni >Mitchell is to suggest that "The Last Time I Saw >Richard" is a so-so confessional song. > >"Over-produced! Over-produced!" they all howl in the >hallowed halls of Acousticia University! Why? >Because the richness of the orchestral textures in the >electronic treatments of the songs created, for the >first time, a lusher, more intricate Joni Mitchell >sound that any of us had ever heard before? Or is it >that you just never thought of, or listened to it that >way? > >"Noisy and cluttered," say those of the Inner Circle >with Doctorate sheepskins in 'For the Roses' hanging >on their walls. Pooh and bah! Noisier than the >cloying harmonica blasts on STAS? More cluttered than >the intricate sonics of 'Cotton Avenue'? Not for >those with the courage to listen closely. > >You know, more than a few folks on this list have been >reduced to whining about Joni's perm once we at DEDMAS >are through with 'em. > >Long live Dog Eat Dog ... a jewel in Joni's crown! > >God I feel better! ;-) > >Don Rowe > > > > > >===== >"I do not object to others hiding from history. What I object to are >others hiding history from ME." > >-- Shelby Foote > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! >http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #229 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?