From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #207 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 207 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Non-Joni Rainy Day List [Leslie Mixon ] Cassette Branches Wanted ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - MSG ["Helen M. Adcock" ] New York Times review 5/24 [Deb Messling ] Re: Mendel exhibit [catman ] Re: Joni's bitterest lyrics ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Fw: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change ["James L. Leonard" ] NY Times review of MSG 05/22 [SMEBD@aol.com] Re. Joni's bitterest lyrics [Linda Worster ] Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Gellerray@aol.com] "Urge For Going" Covers Question ["James L. Leonard" ] RE: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Janene Otten ] RE: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Janene Otten ] [Fwd: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc)] [Bounced Message ] More Misc Ramblings.... [Steve Dulson ] Info Needed URGENT ["Michael Paz" ] Re: "Urge For Going" Covers Question [Brian Gross ] Re: Barangrill Question ["Gerald Notaro (LIB)" ] Re: Joni at MSG taped last night [Brian Gross ] fig leaves ["Wally Kairuz" ] RE: fig leaves [Janene Otten ] RE: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change [Howard Motyl ] Re: Barangrill Question ["James L. Leonard" ] RE: fig leaves ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] RE: fig leaves [Janene Otten ] Re: TV Time ["P. Henry" ] Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics [Don Rowe ] Joni's NYC Concert Reviewed in Wed NY Times [Kenny Grant ] RE: fig leaves [Scott Price ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:22:21 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Non-Joni Rainy Day List Laura Nyro & LaBelle - Gonna Take A Miracle Carole King - Tapestry James Taylor - Hourglass Stevie Wonder - Talking Book Works every time! Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 05:35:02 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Cassette Branches Wanted With all these new JMDLers there is a big untapped need to reproduce Simon's JMDL tape trees. Please contact me if you're interested in discussing same. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:01:24 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - MSG Patrick wrote (and I've "snipped" heavily!): >Then into "A Case of You", which drew the first standing ovation. First of all, thank you for the review Patrick, very cool! Actually, thank you to everyone who has posted a review on the list. The more detailed the better - I can almost pretend that I was there! Although I don't have any souvenirs - yet! I was just struck by the comment about the standing ovation for A Case Of You. There was another post today (sorry, my mouse got carried away on the delete button, so I can't give due credit) with a review from the UK's Daily Mail, which also mentioned a standing ovation at one of Joni's own songs (BSN, I think) at the LA concert. If she's getting a standing ovation each time she sings one of her own songs with an orchestra, can you imagine what it will be like after she records the next orchestrated album? (That didn't come out right, but you know what I mean - the one where she sings an entire album of her own songs, with an orchestra). Imagine the reaction at the concerts - I'm not assuming she's going to tour again after this one, I KNOW she is ;o) As much as I love Both Sides Now, I'm going to be in complete bliss when this project is finished and in my hot little hands. There's nothing like Joni singing Joni. And with a 70-piece orchestra? Heaven. Hell P.S. I abbreviated Madison Square Garden to MSG in the subject of this post, but it doesn't look right. What has Chinese food got to do with Joni? And why is it No Yanni Content? P.P.S. I'm trying to fight off the first winter cold (and stomach 'flu) and losing - it's going to be a long week/weekend. Expect a LOT more posts. And I'm sorry. I'm really, really, really, really sorry. _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:13:23 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Mendel exhibit I just booked a hotel room in Saskatoon. Somebody tell me not to do this. We have 2 cars with 350,000 miles between them, and we're saving for a house. I hope Mr. Shatner is right about the cheap plane tickets! Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:20:40 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: New York Times review 5/24 Joni Mitchell Transcends the Musical Packages By BEN RATLIFF It was a little startling to hear Joni Mitchell one of pop music's most iconic and stubborn free spirits announce from the stage of the Theater at Madison Square Garden on Monday night that she was about to take the audience on "an old- fashioned journey through romantic love." Not that she hasn't written about all kinds of romantic love before in her own onrushing imagistic way or that she doesn't have a right to be old-fashioned;, it was the presentation. You have to picture her saying it while standing in a very un-bohemian purple dress in front of an enormous string orchestra. Ms. Mitchell's music comes in two packages: the gnarled, original harmonies and instrumentation of all her past albums and, now, the expensive, lush orchestral music heard on her newest record, "Both Sides Now" (Reprise/WEA). The album is a good-taste songbook of unassailable jazz and pop standards from midcentury, with a few of her own older pieces mixed in; taken together, they form a narrative arc about a love affair. But at their best, the songs, with Vince Mendoza's pleasant, unobtrusive, 1950's-sounding arrangements, become secondary to what Ms. Mitchell as a singer does to them. By lifting her voice out of the matrix of her usual complex arrangements for guitar and keyboards, the record allows you to hear her gifts as a singer more starklyeven if it took a 90-piece studio orchestra to accomplish it. Monday's concert, which began with the orchestra playing Debussy's "Nuages" by way of a prologue, replicated the album track by track, and then proceeded with a few more songs from a forthcoming album projectorchestral, againof Ms. Mitchell's own work. In the "Both Sides Now" portion, Ms. Mitchell commandeered a highly organized, powerful performance, creating confident new readings of old songs. With the thicker, breathier voice of her recent years, Ms. Mitchell especially owned the slow ballads: in "You're My Thrill," making contrary seesaw motions with her hips and shoulders as she sang, she seemed imperious and deeply comfortable; in "Comes Love," with a line like "Don't try hiding, 'cause it isn't any use," the first and last words contained dramatic slidings of pitch, and her rhythmic phrasing, as personal and eccentric as it gets, gave the song a near rewriting. She didn't scat, but she swung the lyrics vehemently, and given the song's association with Billie Holiday, one could say that Ms. Mitchell has suddenly emerged as a great jazz singer. But that limits the point: the way she sang these songs transcends jazz the way Willie Nelson transcends country. The upbeat or faster songs did not quite reach the same mark as the ballads. "Sometimes I'm Happy," with Herbie Hancock sitting in for a piano solo, felt a little too brisk for the size of the band. Finished with the album portion of the concert, Ms. Mitchell went into her own catalog, performing songs that included "Hejira," "Be Cool" and "Judgment of the Moon and Stars." The show's subtext reverted to the cantankerous Joni Mitchell again: this was the distemperate portion of her show, in which she talked about the difficulty of adapting art to business, mentioned that her heroes, Beethoven and Picasso, were troublemakers, and slipped a hostile lyric about copycat artists into her old antimusic industry song, "For the Roses." Though the level of Ms. Mitchell's own performance did not waver, something of the concert's conceptual elegance was lost by the end. There were some train wrecks between the orchestra, the bassist Larry Klein and the jazz quintet at the back of the stage in the effort to give the songs a jazz feel. To the Mitchell fans who vociferously pledged their love all the way through, it didn't matter; the house had already long been torn down. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:38:28 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Mendel exhibit You only live once, deb so enjoy yourself. How often is this opportunity going to come along? bw colin Deb Messling wrote: > > I just booked a hotel room in Saskatoon. Somebody tell me not to do > this. We have 2 cars with 350,000 miles between them, and we're saving for > a house. I hope Mr. Shatner is right about the cheap plane tickets! > > Deb Messling > messling@enter.net > http://www.enter.net/~messling/ > > ~there are only three kinds of people: > those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 23:59:30 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni's bitterest lyrics Bob wrote: >Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? Pretty much the entire Turbulent Indigo album - I think that's why I love it so much. Actually it's not so much the lyrics, just the whole tone of the album. It's the best "driving to work in the morning" music I know. I am not a morning person, and it really matches my mood! But if I have to narrow it down to specific lyrics then it gets too hard. I tried to think of a few, and some of Little Green comes to mind, The Last Time I Saw Richard, FTR, Lesson In Survival. But I could find a "bitter" lyric in a lot of her songs - and I think that's a lot of her appeal (to me, that is). She's honest, both lyrically and in person. Brutally so at times, and that takes guts. I've always admired that about Joni - I admire it in anyone. Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz Visit the NBLs (Natural Born Losers) at: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~hell/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:35:01 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Fw: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change From: James L. Leonard To: jlamadoo@one.net Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change Come on, Jim. The whole unfortunate thing had just about run its course. Peace was being made. I think Howard and Colin, though offended at first, now agree that you meant well in your original post. Why keep the war going? "Lay down your arms." Please. "Boston Jim" NP: Shirley Horn, Here's To Life (highly recommended to BSN fans - arguably the finest vocalist ever to wrap her rich tones around a ballad, orchestral arrangements by Johnny Mandel, and a program which also can be taken as reflective of the "arc" of a love relationship) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:49:03 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Project (VLJC) Hey Bob, I was just notified by eBay that I was the highest bidder on the Jim Nabors cd with "BSN". I just hope it's not a boot leg. If it is, I promise I will send a letter and a check to Gomer to cover his royalties. Jimmy NP - (Now Packing) for Jonifest YEAH!!! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:30:34 -0400 From: "Ronda Snyder" Subject: Re: Lyrics for your life movie... > Hey Michael (who gets it;)...that was great....nobody like Joni to soundtrack one's inner visual life...every life should have a great inner soundtrack IMO....Joni's been mine for 30+ years now....Paprika Plains one of my favorites, particularly looking out the window on a long crosscountry flight, with Amelia by my side.. Ronda Snyder http://home.att.net/~ronda.snyder ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:20:53 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics I feel extremely fortunate that I was able to see Joni perform this way, with the orchestra, no guitar in hand. I, of course, love her guitar and piano playing but see/hearing this incredibly gifted woman, who has inspired me and all of you by an outpouring of her talent over the years, perform songs that have inspired her was a blessing. I know some of you couldn't attend these shows for various reasons but I do hope that there will be a tape made so that you have the chance to see it too. I can be critical, believe me, but all the criticism in the world can't take away Joni's spirit, her charm and grace as her smoky crooning filled the theater. Bravo! And it was a pleasure spending time with you, Colleen. I'm glad you made the trip. I like reading the lyrics here so I will add a bitter and not-so-sweet lyric from a song that seems to pop into my head at the strangest times, like, when I'm at the BAR *lol* (just kidding). "...you go down to the pick-up station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - a few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. Peace, Janene np: Bob Dylan at RFK Stadium 6/25/95 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:28:09 EDT From: SMEBD@aol.com Subject: NY Times review of MSG 05/22 This review appeared in the NY Times today (I copied this off of the NYT Online). Stephen Joni Mitchell Transcends the Musical Packages BEN RATLIFF 05/24/00 It was a little startling to hear Joni Mitchell —— one of pop music's most iconic and stubborn free spirits —— announce from the stage of the Theater at Madison Square Garden on Monday night that she was about to take the audience on "an old-fashioned journey through romantic love." Not that she hasn't written about all kinds of romantic love before in her own onrushing imagistic way or that she doesn't have a right to be old-fashioned;, it was the presentation. You have to picture her saying it while standing in a very un-bohemian purple dress in front of an enormous string orchestra. Ms. Mitchell's music comes in two packages: the gnarled, original harmonies and instrumentation of all her past albums and, now, the expensive, lush orchestral music heard on her newest record, "Both Sides Now" (Reprise/WEA). The album is a good-taste songbook of unassailable jazz and pop standards from midcentury, with a few of her own older pieces mixed in; taken together, they form a narrative arc about a love affair. But at their best, the songs, with Vince Mendoza's pleasant, unobtrusive, 1950's-sounding arrangements, become secondary to what Ms. Mitchell as a singer does to them. By lifting her voice out of the matrix of her usual complex arrangements for guitar and keyboards, the record allows you to hear her gifts as a singer more starkly —— even if it took a 90-piece studio orchestra to accomplish it. Monday's concert, which began with the orchestra playing Debussy's "Nuages" by way of a prologue, replicated the album track by track, and then proceeded with a few more songs from a forthcoming album project —— orchestral, again —— of Ms. Mitchell's own work. In the "Both Sides Now" portion, Ms. Mitchell commandeered a highly organized, powerful performance, creating confident new readings of old songs. With the thicker, breathier voice of her recent years, Ms. Mitchell especially owned the slow ballads: in "You're My Thrill," making contrary seesaw motions with her hips and shoulders as she sang, she seemed imperious and deeply comfortable; in "Comes Love," with a line like "Don't try hiding, 'cause it isn't any use," the first and last words contained dramatic slidings of pitch, and her rhythmic phrasing, as personal and eccentric as it gets, gave the song a near rewriting. She didn't scat, but she swung the lyrics vehemently, and given the song's association with Billie Holiday, one could say that Ms. Mitchell has suddenly emerged as a great jazz singer. But that limits the point: the way she sang these songs transcends jazz the way Willie Nelson transcends country. The upbeat or faster songs did not quite reach the same mark as the ballads. "Sometimes I'm Happy," with Herbie Hancock sitting in for a piano solo, felt a little too brisk for the size of the band. Finished with the album portion of the concert, Ms. Mitchell went into her own catalog, performing songs that included "Hejira," "Be Cool" and "Judgment of the Moon and Stars." The show's subtext reverted to the cantankerous Joni Mitchell again: this was the distemperate portion of her show, in which she talked about the difficulty of adapting art to business, mentioned that her heroes, Beethoven and Picasso, were troublemakers, and slipped a hostile lyric about copycat artists into her old antimusic industry song, "For the Roses." Though the level of Ms. Mitchell's own performance did not waver, something of the concert's conceptual elegance was lost by the end. There were some train wrecks between the orchestra, the bassist Larry Klein and the jazz quintet at the back of the stage in the effort to give the songs a jazz feel. To the Mitchell fans who vociferously pledged their love all the way through, it didn't matter; the house had already long been torn down. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:31:59 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re. Joni's bitterest lyrics Bob asked: > Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? geez, there are lots of contenders... :~) but since I've been listening to FTR for days now... "drive your bargains, push your papers, win your medals, fuck your strangers don't it leave you on the empty side..." .......... "you know the times you impress me most, are the times when you don't try... when you don't even try..." That whole song, really.... Linda ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:38:50 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics In a message dated 5/24/00 7:25:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time, JaneneO@mji.com writes: << station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - a few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. >> IT's from the Bible honey--it's what Adam and Eve used to "clothe" themselves after they ate the apple. The first sign of shame. haven't read it lately but that's my understanding. r ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:42:06 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: "Urge For Going" Covers Question Which was recorded first, Tom Rush's or George Hamilton's version? That little descending lead guitar figure is present in both, and it also appears in Rush's "The Circle Game." My guess is Rush recorded it first, and the Hamilton arranger lifted the guitar line. On Rush's version, the lead playing reminded me a little of Jerry Garcia, on something like "Playing In The Band." Who was the guitarist? "Boston Jim" NP: Sinatra, "BSN" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 07:42:08 PDT From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics I always figured that that fig leaf referred to Adam, and the shame, or rather anxiety over sexuality in general. The protagonist in the song is stealing around in the dark like some kind of cassanova, but has issues with him/herself (I don't remember if the lyric is gender specific), and is hiding this both literally and figuratively in the darkness. Kind of neat, I've always liked this, too. And on a slightly related note, there is a plaster copy of Michalangelo's "David" in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Being a nude roughly the size of King Kong, the stague boasts quite an impressive package. There is a plaster fig leaf attached to the base of the statue that was used up to a certain point to cover the David's genitals when the museum was visited by female members of the royal family. Too much of a good thing, apparently. Reuben np: Chaka Khan: Greatest Hits >From: Janene Otten >Reply-To: Janene Otten >To: "'joni@smoe.org'" >Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics >Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:20:53 -0400 > >I feel extremely fortunate that I was able to see Joni perform this way, >with the orchestra, no guitar in hand. I, of course, love her guitar and >piano playing but see/hearing this incredibly gifted woman, who has >inspired >me and all of you by an outpouring of her talent over the years, perform >songs that have inspired her was a blessing. I know some of you couldn't >attend these shows for various reasons but I do hope that there will be a >tape made so that you have the chance to see it too. I can be critical, >believe me, but all the criticism in the world can't take away Joni's >spirit, her charm and grace as her smoky crooning filled the theater. >Bravo! >And it was a pleasure spending time with you, Colleen. I'm glad you made >the >trip. >I like reading the lyrics here so I will add a bitter and not-so-sweet >lyric >from a song that seems to pop into my head at the strangest times, like, >when I'm at the BAR *lol* (just kidding). "...you go down to the pick-up >station craving warmth and beauty - you settle for less than fascination - >a >few drinks later, you're not so choosy..." and the line "...clutching the >night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about >fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. > Peace, > Janene > >np: Bob Dylan at RFK Stadium 6/25/95 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:42:45 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics <> Janene, I'm sure the allusion is to the Adam & Eve story...after they tasted the forbidden fruit of knowledge, they were aware of their nakedness and covered themselves with a fig leaf. So I think what Joni is saying is that someone going to the "pickup station" is emotionally laying themselves bare and is protected only by the night. Just one more example of Joni's brilliance! Bob NP: XTC, "Stupidly Happy" (which pretty much describes me enjoying their latest release, just out yesterday!!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:58:34 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Lyrics for your emotional life Ronda Snyder wrote: > ....nobody like Joni to soundtrack one's inner visual life...every life should have a great inner > soundtrack IMO....Joni's been mine for 30+ years now. How about the way Joni's lyrics illuminate what you're feeling? OK I'll talk about me :-) as in what I'm feeling. And even give some examples. Like hearing Joni singing "you want me to be truthful, sometimes you turn it on me like a weapon though and I need your approval" as I'm standing in the rain trying to get a cab after a job interview. And after hearing that I say to myself, oh, you did seem a little taken apart in there didn't you? That may not be the place for you. Or months ago sitting on the bus after some rather intense flirting with a very attractive guy and hearing "sometimes I get that feeling and I want to settle down with somebody, sometimes I get that strong longing and I want to settle down with somebody, but it passes like the summer, I'm a wild seed again, let the wind carry me" and I say to myself, oh, a little scared are you? Or a couple of weeks ago while starting to know someone and for days hearing Joni singing "I wanted to send it but I don't know where I stand" and I say, yes, I am a little uncertain about this new relationship. But where's my old theme song of "let the wind carry me"? Hmmm, interesting, to me anyway. Joni's music is many things, but the one I've most benefited by is the way she expresses emotions, the subtleties, the contradictions, the messiness, and before I even recognize myself how I'm feeling, I often hear her voice and then I can take it from there. She's given me a vocabulary and acceptance of emotions that I wouldn't have otherwise. So once again I say, thank you so much Joni for being with me on my life's journey. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:54:46 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics Thanks, Reuben. That makes perfect sense. Interesting fact about the statue at the museum. I think that it is rather sad that the museum would do that but I suppose if it was at the Queens request the curator has no choice but to come up with a solution. At least it was a creative choice. =) J > I always figured that that fig leaf referred to Adam, and the > shame, or > rather anxiety over sexuality in general. The protagonist in > the song is > stealing around in the dark like some kind of cassanova, but > has issues with > him/herself (I don't remember if the lyric is gender > specific), and is > hiding this both literally and figuratively in the darkness. > Kind of neat, > I've always liked this, too. > > And on a slightly related note, there is a plaster copy of > Michalangelo's > "David" in the Victoria and Albert Museum in London. Being a > nude roughly > the size of King Kong, the stague boasts quite an impressive > package. There > is a plaster fig leaf attached to the base of the statue that > was used up to > a certain point to cover the David's genitals when the museum > was visited by > female members of the royal family. Too much of a good > thing, apparently. > > Reuben > np: Chaka Khan: Greatest Hits > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:56:22 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics and thank you Bob! > > < night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there > something about > fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. >> > > Janene, > > I'm sure the allusion is to the Adam & Eve story...after they > tasted the > forbidden fruit of knowledge, they were aware of their > nakedness and covered > themselves with a fig leaf. So I think what Joni is saying is > that someone > going to the "pickup station" is emotionally laying > themselves bare and is > protected only by the night. Just one more example of Joni's > brilliance! > > Bob > > NP: XTC, "Stupidly Happy" (which pretty much describes me > enjoying their > latest release, just out yesterday!!) > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:10:17 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: [Fwd: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc)] Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:59:09 +0100 From: Jason Maloney For some reason, this didn't go through yesterday (an e-mail to the Don Henley list suffered the same fate..hmmm), so I'm reposting :-) Jason. - -------- Original Message -------- Mark Domyancich wrote: > Edie Brickell and New Bohemians - Ghost Of A Dog Oh yes, there's one track on there in particular isn't there? About curling up together under a blanket and listening to the rain on the window......it's been waaay too long since I last played that CD! Personally, and this is JC, the perfect rainy weather track (and indeed album) is My Secret Place (and CMIARS generally, I guess). The last time it really poured down (thunder lightning and all), I stuck My Secret Place on the CD player here on my PC, and it sounded soooooo good :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:16:40 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: More Misc Ramblings.... Kakki wrote: >she has discussed the lyrics on Ludwig's Tune and >For The Roses. If you don't know it from reading the lyrics, she affirms >that those lyrics refer to her disillusionment with the music business and >related personal upheaval she was going through at the time. She was going >through the first of her many crises, deciding whether or not to quit the >business. I think I'd say "one of her ongoing crises"....Pat has discussed her reluctance to sign with the labels tha were courting her in '66, and by '69 she'd written "For Free", surely a sign of her ambivalence about the whole biz thing. And Kakki also wrote: >I truly can't help how I write. And I wouldn't have you change a thing! :) And Rick wrote: >TM told me he lives next to Wrigley Field, where I later found >out they play baseball. Heathen! Brute! I sentence you to three "Hail Cubbies" at the shrine of Harry Caray. :) And Patrick wrote in his great review: >For The Roses was, for me, the perfect justification of this orchestral >project. This was a brilliant arrangement of the song, perfect musically, >perfect vocally, perfect lyrically. Amen, amen, amen! - ------------------------------ ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:22:03 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: Info Needed URGENT Hello Gang- Be prepared to see me bald when you get here cause I am pulling my hair out. Not really, but boy it's been crazy. I am making the final schedule for airport pick ups and I am missing the following info: CATGIRL- NO AIRLINE SPECIFIED Phyliss Ward-I need a number to get ahold of you Julius Mills-NO INFO YET Bill Dollinger-NO INFO YET Pearl and Steve-NO INFO ON FILE I MUST HAVE MISPLACED IT Dan Haas-NO INFO YET Craig (HAPPY THE MAN)-NO INFO YET Mary Grace-NO INFO YET Please call me at the office to day and give me this info so I can complete the airport pick up list for Jack and make the final reservations for the dinner on Friday night. Or email me to this address michaelpaz@worldnet.att.net Thanks Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 08:29:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: "Urge For Going" Covers Question - --- "James L. Leonard" wrote: > Which was recorded first, Tom Rush's or George Hamilton's version? That > little descending lead guitar figure is present in both, and it also appears > in Rush's "The Circle Game." > > My guess is Rush recorded it first, and the Hamilton arranger lifted the > guitar line. On Rush's version, the lead playing reminded me a little of > Jerry Garcia, on something like "Playing In The Band." Who was the > guitarist? Tom's "The Circle Game" album credits are as follows: (the credits are not on a track-by-track basis) Musicians (only guitars listed here): Bruce Langhorne, Guitar Jonathan Raskin, Classical Guitar and Bass Joe Mack, Bob Bushnell, Electric Guitar Later, Brian np: just the usual buzzing here in the office, making me wish I was back at Judy's Chelsea or at a JoniFest so I could hang out in person with all of you. ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 10:29:10 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: RE: Our Lady of Duality--my last one Did I overreact? Probably a little. Was I wrong about the intentions of Kakki and Jim? Probably a lot. Am I sorry that I reacted the way I did? Probably. (But it is good to get our blood pumping sometimes.) (with all these probablys, I'm hedging a bit, aren't I?) What did I take away from this? That if Kakki and I run into each other at BSN Chicago (you're going to be here, aren't you?) that it will be a little tense. And . . . That there is a perception of exclusivity on the list. I AM NOT ACCUSING JIM AND KAKKI OF THIS! I think we all, in some way, promote it. Old folks who have a wider breadth of knowledge might not deal with questions they dealt with a hundred times. And new people need to be patient, I guess, and persistent. And lurkers, don't be afraid to chime in, speak your mind, let the rest of us know what you think the lyrics on Moon in the Window mean to you, or how much you hate Mingus (this said with a wink toward Jim). Your insights can make us see a song in a completely new way. So, that's what I hope we all got out of this. As much as I hate to say it, there is a bit of a feeling of us vs. them, and no one wants that. JM would want us all to feel included, whether we are stuck at Blue, or stuck on the notion that Hejira is one of the most underrated albums of the rock era (this would be my crusade) or that TTT is an amazing use of the VG-8. I'm beginning to sound like I've been force-fed too many happy pills. So, I will end. But let me give you an example of how wonderful this list can be, and you lurkers can read this as encouragement to ask questions, be insightful, reveal your truths--and that goes for the oldies, too. I have always loved Two Grey Rooms, from the moment I heard it. When I sang along, I always sang thinking of another man, of course (and this goes back to our discussion once about Joni being a gay man--or was it a gay black man? Or both?). For years, I thought it was just something JM had written from her head. A few months ago, I found out that it is actually written for someone she knew, a gay man, and it is written from his point of view. That kind of information is, to me, amazing and lifted JM even higher (is it possible?) on the pedestal I hold her on besides adding another layer to the song. My point, not one person knows everything about JM--whom we all love otherwise we wouldn't be here. So, we all--oldies, newbies, gentle souls, cantankerous ones (like me), lurkers and listeners--need to share our knowledge to enhance our love of JM. I do not believe that Jim or Kakki are elitist and I now believe their intentions were not elitist. Jim and I have agreed to disagree (haven't we?) about negative reviews on JM.com. Boy, it took me a long time to end. I must go back to work. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:53:25 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Barangrill Question I posted this question last week, but no one responded. Is Barangrill the name of a town or some other real place, or does Joni simply mean "Bar And Grill?" I've wondered that since first hearing FTR, but never had anyone to ask. Thanks. "Boston Jim" NP: Richard Dworski, "Woodstock" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:59:35 -0400 (EDT) From: "Gerald Notaro (LIB)" Subject: Re: Barangrill Question Sorry I didn't get to meet you in West Palm Beach. The name is generic. Jerry On Wed, 24 May 2000, James L. Leonard wrote: > I posted this question last week, but no one responded. Is Barangrill the > name of a town or some other real place, or does Joni simply mean "Bar And > Grill?" I've wondered that since first hearing FTR, but never had anyone to > ask. Thanks. > > "Boston Jim" > > NP: Richard Dworski, "Woodstock" > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:03:41 -0700 From: RandyRemote Subject: Re: Joni at MSG taped last night That's interesting. I saw a similar setup at the Concord show, a few rows back from me. My thought was that they would probably get a alot of noise and bump sounds by attaching it to the seats. Also wondered how they got away with doing it so openly. The usher's comment would suggest that it was an "official taping", but why do that when they could go direct from the soundboard? RR SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > I attended Joni's show at MSG last night and noticed that they were recording > the event. There was a microphone directly in front of my seat and just > before the show, one of the ushers told the person whose chair the microphone > was attached to that he should be mindful of the microphone, as they were > recording. I don't know if this is something that is routinely done, but > thought that everyone would be interested to know this. The show was, IMHO, > simply wonderful. In the audience were Diana Krall, Bette Midler, and Judy > Collins, along with lots and lots of fans. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 09:21:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni at MSG taped last night Maybe because simon already had all the soundboard's output jacks occupied?? ;-) - --- RandyRemote wrote: > That's interesting. I saw a similar setup at the Concord show, a few > rows back from me. My thought was that they would probably get a > alot of noise and bump sounds by attaching it to the seats. Also > wondered how they got away with doing it so openly. The usher's > comment would suggest that it was an "official taping", but why do > that when they could go direct from the soundboard? > RR > > SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > > > I attended Joni's show at MSG last night and noticed that they were > recording > > the event. There was a microphone directly in front of my seat and just > > before the show, one of the ushers told the person whose chair the > microphone > > was attached to that he should be mindful of the microphone, as they were > > recording. I don't know if this is something that is routinely done, but > > thought that everyone would be interested to know this. The show was, > IMHO, > > simply wonderful. In the audience were Diana Krall, Bette Midler, and Judy > > Collins, along with lots and lots of fans. > ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:24:48 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: fig leaves i think she refers to adam and eve after they ate the fruit. this must be one of joni's greatest lines!!!! wallyK, np blossom dearie l'étang > < night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there something about > fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. >> > > Janene, ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:28:01 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: fig leaves One more comment on this. I think it's pretty funny that I never thought of Adam & Eve's fig leaf revelation because I go to bible study EVERY SUNDAY. *lol* Subject: fig leaves > > > i think she refers to adam and eve after they ate the fruit. > this must be > one of joni's greatest lines!!!! > wallyK, np blossom dearie l'étang > > > < > night to you like a fig leaf..." Why a fig leaf? Is there > something about > > fig leafs that I don't know about? I need some enlightening. >> > > > > Janene, > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:31:02 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: RE: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change >From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" >Subject: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change >Howdy circlers!! >The meeting time of the JMDL Inner Circle has been changed from 13:00 GMT to >15:00 GMT but the place has remained unchanged. See all you cool people >there! >All the best, >Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati - -- Whether or not you believe it, Jim, there are people who honestly do feel left out. This flippancy doesn't help. Howard M ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 12:37:12 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: getting caught up... Hi everyone. First off, Bob (not M) wrote: > After being with the JMDL for a couple of days, I must say that you've been like family to me -- people who seem nice enough, but then act like perfect idiots when they get together. JMDLers are like family - but in the best sense. Don't worry, Bob, this thread will pass :-) I've been pretty much skipping through most of the 'elitist' posts myself. Also a big WOOHOO for Mark in Seattle's Mom. What great news! I hope she gets through the radiation with minimal side effects and maximum success! (no matter how great the prognonsis, it can be a lonely thing to go through - - see previous comment about this list. For all you newbies, suffice it to say that knowing I have several hundred people thinking about me makes it easier when they stick that IV needle in to do the chemo. BTW, the next treatment is tomorrow. Yipee...) lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:14:56 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: Barangrill Question Thanks for clearing that up for me, Jerry. I'm sorry, too, that we didn't get to meet at the WPB concert. At one point before the show, Jimmy took off to try to find you (I think he succeeded). I would have joined him, but I didn't want to leave my girlfriend sitting there by herself. There'll be a "next time," I'm sure. :-) Jim > Sorry I didn't get to meet you in West Palm Beach. The name is generic. > > Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:21:33 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: fig leaves <> Sure you do, Janene, sure you do...;~) And while we're on the subject, it reminds me of the fact that the Adam & Eve story was what drove Joni away from organized religion, at least to hear her tell it. She wondered (as do I) if you interpret the A&E story literally (which I don't), then how did Cain and/or Abel ever have a family of their own, given that Eve was the only female? :~) I've posed this conundrum to people who say the Bible is the literal truth, and it's always fun to watch them wriggle and weasel around it... Bob NP: Tom Waits & Crystal Gayle, "This One's From the Heart" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 13:39:31 -0400 From: Janene Otten Subject: RE: fig leaves Yes, fundamentalism is a dangerous thing. Perhaps God was running a mail-order bride service. CRACK!!!! - that's lightning striking down around me. Ah, my pastor would be proud. J.O. > <> Bob wrote: > Sure you do, Janene, sure you do...;~) > > And while we're on the subject, it reminds me of the fact > that the Adam & > Eve story was what drove Joni away from organized religion, > at least to hear > her tell it. She wondered (as do I) if you interpret the A&E > story literally > (which I don't), then how did Cain and/or Abel ever have a > family of their > own, given that Eve was the only female? :~) > > I've posed this conundrum to people who say the Bible is the > literal truth, > and it's always fun to watch them wriggle and weasel around it... > > Bob > > NP: Tom Waits & Crystal Gayle, "This One's From the Heart" > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:15:13 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: TV Time David wrote: >Hi: ...I heard Joni singing "The Circle Game". It's amazing that one artist can say so much within the context of one song, convey so much feeling and get her point across at the same time. 34 years later and she can still do that. WOW> what's possibly even more amazing is that this wisdom came originally from a mere girl of twenty years... pat Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:31:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: MSG 5/23 & some bittersweet lyrics I don't think Genesis is specific about what flora was used to 'cover the nakedness' of Adam and Eve, as I recall. The fig leaf, I believe, was an early tactic the Christians used to co-opt the symbolism of Greek/Roman paganism to speed conversion. But I could just be confusing my Art History and my Religious Symbol Systems courses from many ... many ... years back. I'll be interested to see what the "Judgment" of the Inner Circle is on this one ... tee-hee! ;-) Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 14:34:11 +0000 From: Kenny Grant Subject: Joni's NYC Concert Reviewed in Wed NY Times Hi all, Was nice to see some listers at Judy's before Monday's show. Alot of new faces for me, as I've been lurking (at best) lately, though plan to get back to a more active status on the JMDL. Was nice to see that some people came from far away places (Prit from Spain, Lori from France, Alisone & Lane from Salt Lake, and Peter from London.) Always a pleasure to meet up with old friends and long time listers like Brian Gross, Patrick Leader, and Jill Linn. Not sure if it was the surprise in simon's voice when he rang me up over the weekend and learned that I only planned on going to Monday's show, or the fact that I can never get enough of Joni, but I returned last night, spur-of-the-moment, alone, last minute, and treated myself to a front section center stage seat (row 12). Doesn't compare to the 2nd row center seat that I have for the CT show on Sat with the "CT Group" - -- I am REALLY psyched about that!!! I've attached a hyperlink to a review of the Monday show published in today's NY Times (see below). Joni was in great voice and spirits both nights, and I truly enjoyed myself, especially Tues night, with the better seat and view. At last night's show she cracked up the audience. She was introducing the song Both Sides Now, and spoke of the many cloud formations she'd seen over the years, and said that one of the oddest cloud formations she'd ever seen was just recently - after the Florida show (Hi Paul, Pearl and Steve!) - "it was the strangest thing," Joni said. "I looked up and could swear I saw Magoo jacking off" The audience was in stitches! Here's the link to Monday's NYT review. Best, -Kenny http://www.nytimes.com/00/05/24/news/arts/mitchell-music-review.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 11:43:49 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: RE: fig leaves "Down to You," --Joni Mitchell, Court and Spark Clutching the night to you like a fig leaf You hurry To the blackness And the blankets To lay down an impression And your loneliness ...brilliant Joni lyrics, as always... "Fig leaf" conjures up an image for me that shows the subject is feeling vulnerable. S/he has met someone at the "pickup station" and is about to engage in a physical relationship. It's after closing time and feeling a bit of desperation s/he has become "not so choosy." They hurry through the night to the darkened bedroom (blackness and blankets) where they both want to please and/or dazzle each other "lay down an impression" and at the same time stave off their "loneliness." It's happening fast. One minute s/he is "craving warmth and beauty" and the next has resigned to "settling for less than fascination." To me the "fig leaf" metaphor is that the subject is a little unsure about the whole evening's events, reaching out for *anything,* like the "night," that will help cover up or provide some reassurance and security. Further stretching it ;-) I might say that Joni was describing the subject of the song (Is it Joni herself? Most likely but the song isn't in the first person) as feeling naked in that situation, and when one is suddenly aware that a spotlight is on the instinctive reaction may be to reach for something to cover one's genitals. That's how the fig leaf was used by Adam and Eve and that's how I visualize the lyric. With a way-too-vivid imagination this morning, Scott ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #207 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?