From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #206 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 24 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 206 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni at MSG taped last night [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" and Joni's bitterest lyrics [Murphycopy@aol.com] Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) [Mark Domyancich ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long ["Kakki" ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long [Howard Motyl ] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, A Smelly Turd [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long ["gene mock" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 [catman ] Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Rainy days [catman ] MPP [dave fairall / beth miller ] WTRF [dave fairall / beth miller ] Non Joni(Sort of)-My rainy day pix [GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com] Non Joni (sort of) My rainy day pix [GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com] interupting the sorrow... [Murphycopy@aol.com] Superiority debates & NY concert ["Frederick Freeman" ] Inner Circle Meeting Time Change ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] MSG May 23rd [CaTGirl627@aol.com] May 25th Show Meet'n'Greet [Julian51469@aol.com] Back to the Garden [Seulbzzaj@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:53:41 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Joni at MSG taped last night I'm surprised his equipment wasn't taken. Most security at venues would have done that. NP-Garcia/Grissman-Louis Collins At 10:00 AM -0400 5/23/00, Gerald Notaro (LIB) wrote: >It was probably simon. > >Jerry 8-) > >On Tue, 23 May 2000 SMEBD@aol.com wrote: > >> I attended Joni's show at MSG last night and noticed that they >>were recording >> the event. There was a microphone directly in front of my seat and just >> before the show, one of the ushers told the person whose chair the >>microphone >> was attached to that he should be mindful of the microphone, as they were >> recording. I don't know if this is something that is routinely done, but >> thought that everyone would be interested to know this. The show was, IMHO, >> simply wonderful. In the audience were Diana Krall, Bette Midler, and Judy >> Collins, along with lots and lots of fans. >> - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:53:01 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" and Joni's bitterest lyrics For bitter Joni lyrics, "The Magdalene Laundries" immediately came to mind: Singing of nuns as "bloodless brides of Jesus," she says: They wilt the grass they walk upon They leech the light out of a room And also from the same song: Peg O'Connell died today. She was a cheeky girl, A flirt. They just stuffed her in a hole! Joni... so bitter and so sweet! -- Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:56:29 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) Edie Brickell and New Bohemians - Ghost Of A Dog THOSL Hejira And sometimes NPR NP-Garcia/Grissman-Guitar Jam >>Joseph Palis posted: >> >i wonder what others listen to during rainy days. - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:58:29 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long Howard wrote: > I understand that this is what you were doing, but whether or not that was clear, it is a small jump to >other people on the list. Colin and I were not the only people to pick up on this. Others sent me >messages privately. Here's one: "Your points are very valid. I could also play this game and mention private messages that I have received but I won't because it further feeds the "us vs. them" mentality - a dynamic I have always found distressful here when it rears it's ugly head. Howard, your series of posts have now caused me to become physically ill. I wonder if you and those supporting you stomped all over Jim's original heartfelt essay just to have the chance to get at me. I feel horrible for Jim that he now has to defend himself against allegations that are false and possibly provoked by something I did. And I feel horrible that this discussion comes at a time when we all should be reveling in the excitement of Joni's shows and reviews. Even though I know you will have more to say, this will be my last post on the subject. You want to call me an elitist? Fine, whatever. Obviously, my personal contributions, assistance and sacrifices of time to many people on this list over the past three years means nothing. I could recite them in my defense, but that would also probably make me seem to putting on an "air of superiority" in some eyes. Since you keep referring back to it, I did want to clarify my original discussion with Jim about the For The Roses songs Joni is performing during the current tour. I can see now that I was probably wrong in assuming that other readers would understand where I was coming from and should have clarified it better, but it was late and I was tired. That album is very personally important in my life for reasons I won't go into here, but I am passionate about it. From articles and interviews with Joni that can be found on the JMDL website, she has discussed the lyrics on Ludwig's Tune and For The Roses. If you don't know it from reading the lyrics, she affirms that those lyrics refer to her disillusionment with the music business and related personal upheaval she was going through at the time. She was going through the first of her many crises, deciding whether or not to quit the business. The lyrics are all about the downside of fame and art and people who want you to be something you don't feel and so on. They are about those who don't "get" who you are as an artist, or, by extension, as an individual. So when I saw some of the posts on JM.com getting upset with her for not playing her oldies (also, some of the other reviews mentioned how some people in the audiences were heckling her to play the oldies) and also knocking her orchestration of some of the old songs, I suddenly was struck by the incredible irony of it all. To me, it was like she may have somehow known in advance that this would happen and so she deliberately chose to finish off the show with the two songs that addressed the whole phenomenom of those who don't "get" her. And it is apparent from the reviews that indeed, some people did not "get" it. *This* is where I was primarily coming from the other night. Jim's post struck a chord with me and I wanted to discuss more about that particular lightbulb that had come on in my head. Plus, it selfishly gave me yet another opportunity to rant a bit once again about my favorite Joni album. I hope this further clarifies where I was coming from but if not, there's not much more I can say. Finally, I have gotten both overy and covert criticism a number of times in the past for my "eloquent" writing style. I have even been told by some people that I should "dummy it down" because it pisses people off. But when I have tried to dummy down, I have been quickly corrected, so I can't win. I truly can't help how I write. I am overly verbal - it's just the way the circuits are connected in my brain. On the other hand, "when it comes to mathematics, I have static in the attic", as Joni would say. Like I said, I don't have anything else to add about all this. I'm drained and I also think it time to move on. I apologize to any whom I have offended. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:09:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Bird Subject: rainy day joni My favorites for rainy spring days are Marcie window shopping in the rain, and "oil on the puddles in taffeta patterns that run down the drain, in colored arrangements that Michael will change with a stick that he's found." For snow, it has to be "the bolts of lace waltzing on a ballroom (bridal) girl" and the "six foot drifts on Myrtle's lawn." For hot summer sun, turn-it-up and roll-down-the-windows for "Shiny Toys." And of course the Latin drum, and the hissing ... For early darkness and autumnal chill, the geese in chevron flight, and the warm chords of "Tiger Bones." And right now, in the budding warmth of late May, especially when it's warm enough to linger outside just after dusk on the cooling grass, watching the stars come out, the "crocuses to bring to school tomorrow." Nickel Chief ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:12:51 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FMYFL@aol.com wrote: > The one part of this thread that I wanted to address is the "negative > reviews" on Joni's website. First of all, I think that a good majority of the > reviews were positive ones. I didn't perceive any of the negative ones as > "hate mail" either. I think everyone IS entitled to express their opinion > whether it is on the JM.com or a newspaper article > For those > who posted these views on Joni's site, I would think that they had a good > idea what was in store for them. I can't imagine them getting back from the > concert, turning on the computer, doing a search for Joni Mitchell, finding > Wally's page and sending in a review. I would think these people would have > already known about JM.com and would read it occasionally. How could these > people NOT know what Joni was going to do on this tour? I do suppose it's > possible, but it puzzles me. > > I hope I made a little sense in my post. (Yeah I know "VERY LITTLE SENSE") > I'm at work right now and really didn't have time to think this out clearly. > > Made perfect sense to me. You are a voice of reason in our quarrel of degrees. Thanks. - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="howard_scptv.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Howard Motyl Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="howard_scptv.vcf" begin:vcard n:Motyl;Howard tel;fax:312-421-7714 tel;work:312-421-7711 x-mozilla-html:FALSE org:SCPtv Worldwide adr:;;400 N. May St., Suite 201;Chicago;Illinois;60622;USA version:2.1 email;internet:howard_scptv@interaccess.com title:Director, Creative Development note:"Any time you have the opportunity to accomplish something for those coming behind you and you don't, you are wasting your time on this earth." Roberto Clemente x-mozilla-cpt:;3 fn:Howard Motyl end:vcard - --------------0B55E2AFCB0139394D97DCD6-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:40:47 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:33:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 08:30:31 PDT > From: "Reuben Bell" > Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) > > My three favorite rainy day pics are: > David Sylvian - Secrets of the Beehive > Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll > Joni's Hejira > (and ok one more) > Everything But The Girl - Worldwide My faves are: Cocteau Twins - Four Calendar Cafe Fleetwood Mac - Future Games Giles Reaves - Sea of Glass Enya - Shepherd Moons mike > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:19:06 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, A Smelly Turd i will say that i would to like see us let this one go now. can't we all just breath tonight a little. drink a martini, or a beer or a tonic or what ever else we do to relax and come in tomorrow and start again. i told my humbling failure story to try and get us off the debate. i thought jim's post was a fine one and i never took insult to it. and i failed at school once. and i'm smart enough to understand both sides of the debate. but jim's heart was not malicious. i dont think he is capable of malicious. but i do like his spunk this afternoon. howard, it was not meant the way it sounded to you. but it's time to stop it now. please. let's drop this thread like a smelly turd. it will only put stink on anyone who touches it from this point on. pat np. a heated fire on the inside, wanting to drink a case of someone tonight at the show. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:39:07 -0700 From: "gene mock" Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long Egads!!! i thought this thread would die out, but it seems to have a life of it's own. I emailed Jim and told him how I thought his original post was "great and right on." He and Kakki never had any intentions of insulting anybody. I know that inferences were made, that higher education was needed to appreciate Joni. Rightly so, now I'm making a difference between "higher formal education" and "higher education." Higher formal education would be a college degree, higher education is a sense of sociology, philosophy, fine arts, literature, physics and what have you. In other words, "life experiences." Sorta like "the agony of defeat and ecstasy of victory", to win and lose in life and love. Joni writes about these things better than anybody else. On top of that she combines it with great music. Awesome!! So no, I don't feel insulted, I don't feel like I'm a minority, because I know what Jim meant to say. This list is really great! We always don't agree/disagree on all things Joni. But we talk about Joni, because it's like ---------like Joni is part of us, and we're part of Joni. As far as people who go to her concerts to hear her sing old songs, that's okay. It's like going to class reunions. You turn back the clock and remember things as they were. But we all change, Joni changed, I've changed, we all have changed----------and I enjoy watching and listening the changes Joni has gone through. "What a long strange trip it's been," So I don't mind if Joni doesn't play her old songs and people shouldn't expect her to do so either. I don't like going to class reunions, going through the yearbook is enough for me. She's an artist. If you can't do it from the heart, then don't do it at all. "Elitism" on this list. No way, I just wish I could write as good as you guys. Hey!Forever Joni!!!!! Take Care gene ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 17:46:40 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: A Joni Day in London Town/Redux UKers I spoke too soon. In my continuing discussions with JM mgmt about the possibilties of the company I work for shooting the BSN concert next week, I got more information about JM in London. The producers of the ITV show, South Bank, are interested in airing a taped BSN concert. There are no plans for her to perform in England, at this point. The possibility exists but "she doesn't like to do live shows and she doesn't like to travel". I'm sorry for getting your hopes up. When he said South Bank yesterday, I had just read a big article about South Bank in the NY Times and the new Tate over there and thought she would perform there. For Joni fans in Japan, TV folks there are talking about the taped concert for broadcast also. Finally, I was told that there is a possibility--and, right now, this possibility is very, very slight--that Joni may tour with BSN again in the fall. There have been offers but nothing, I repeat, nothing has been set, there have been no deals made, it is only a little glint of a possibility. And it is the smallest possiblity imaginable. Howard M. If the computer crap is still on the end of this message, I'm sorry. I have tried to turn one part of it off . . . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:04:53 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Miles' "Blue Xmas" (SJC) In a message dated 05/23/2000 6:17:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bobm@kayaker.com writes: << Any other contenders for Joni's bitterest lyric? >> I think my favorite is: ...All romantics meet the same fate someday, cynical and drunk and boring someone in some dark cafe...(if I recall correctly) Still waiting to meet that fate. No regrets, Coyote (Richard) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:24:58 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Our Lady Of Duality, an essay, Long, long, long In a message dated 05/23/2000 11:48:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << It does say, however: "Tolerance, tolerance, tolerance: It is not acceptable to personally insult someone publicly on the list." Post away, damn the rest. >> Finally, the ultimate authority comes in and (hopefully) saves the day! No regrets, Coyote (Rick) Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:32:58 -0400 From: peves@marlboro.edu Subject: Re: Covers Comments Jason, Here is a cross-section which was torture to pick from such a barrel of blossems as Joni's got. Torture I tell ya! Cactus Tree JM 1968 The Gallery CLDS 1969 The Priest LOC 1970 This Flight Tonight BLUE 1971 Banquet FTR 1972 For The Roses " Let The Wind Carry Me " Court & Spark CAS 1974 Just Like This Train CAS 1974 Shades Of Scarlett Conquering HOSL 1975 Sweet Bird HOSL 1975 Hejira HJR 1976 Song For Sharon " Jericho DJWD 1977 Otis & Marlena DJWD Chinese Cafe WTRF 1982 Slouching Toward Bethlehem NRH 1991 Come In From The Cold " Turbulent Indigo TI 1994 Borderline " Sire Of Sorrow " Man From Mars TTT No Apologies " Taming The Tiger " She stunns me! Peg/VT NP No Apologies / TTT "Ohoh you tired watcher" - Sire Of Sorrow and "Ohoh my my" - Crazy Cries Of Love Are identical in melody & in chord. I love that. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 18:42:10 -0000 From: "alan larson" Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) How about Rainy Day Man off of JT's titleless album, where he is laying horizontal on the cover in his suspenders. Or Gordon Lightfoot's Looking at the Rain. Or my favorite.... it was raining hard in Frisco, i needed one more fare to make my night... Taxi by Harry Chapin Oops, almost forgot Rainy Night in Georgia.... Brooks Benton I believe. I love that song. "now rainy day man he don't need sunshine don't need no rainbows he don't need good times gray days rollin' then you'll see him i say empty feeling lord how you need him all those noble thoughts they don't belong and you can't hide the truth with a happy song and since i knew where you stood all along just call on your rainy day man" alan in ames who has always loved the less acclaimed songs, diamonds in the rough maybe - ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Domyancich To: Sent: Tuesday, May 23, 2000 8:56 PM Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) > Edie Brickell and New Bohemians - Ghost Of A Dog > THOSL > Hejira > And sometimes NPR > > NP-Garcia/Grissman-Guitar Jam > > >>Joseph Palis posted: > >> >i wonder what others listen to during rainy days. > -- > Mark Domyancich > Harpua@revealed.net > tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:46:21 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 In a message dated 5/23/00 6:20:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, m_hicks@aiken.k12.sc.us writes: << > My three favorite rainy day pics are: > David Sylvian - Secrets of the Beehive > Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll > Joni's Hejira > (and ok one more) > Everything But The Girl - Worldwide My faves are: Cocteau Twins - Four Calendar Cafe Fleetwood Mac - Future Games Giles Reaves - Sea of Glass Enya - Shepherd Moons mike >> How could anyone leave Jimi's Electric Ladyland off such a list? It is the ultimate rainy day album. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:52:29 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #275 > How could anyone leave Jimi's Electric Ladyland off such a list? very easily-especially if you have no idea who jimi or Electric LadyLand is :-)(tho now I think maybe you mean hendrix and if so I'll save that for Hell) It is the > ultimate rainy day album. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 19:53:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: music for a Rainy day (Vljc) In a message dated 5/23/00 7:45:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alarson@isunet.net writes: << How about Rainy Day Man off of JT's titleless album, where he is laying horizontal on the cover in his suspenders. Or Gordon Lightfoot's Looking at the Rain. Or my favorite.... it was raining hard in Frisco, i needed one more fare to make my night... Taxi by Harry Chapin Oops, almost forgot Rainy Night in Georgia.... Brooks Benton I believe. I love that song. >> I made a 90-minute tape of rain songs about 15 years ago -- Gordon Lightfoot's "Rainy day People," Randy Newman's "I Think It's Going to Rain Today," Neil Young's "Like a Hurricane," Van Morrison's "Full Force Gale," The Beatles "Rain," of course, and a few others, including several selections of the ultimate rainy day album, Jimi Hendrix' "Electric Ladyland." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 00:58:53 +0100 From: catman Subject: Rainy days Don't know about rainy days but on days I feel the need to unwind I listen to; Hejira-very relaxing. Don't usually go for vocals to unwind but this album sounds the same all the way thru and has resting feel to it. I also like Enya for the same reason. Enigma or something by Jean Michel Jarre. I have nothing particular for rainy days as they feel the same as any other day-cept they are more work when one has 7 hairy dogs! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:47:39 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: MPP Hey Loren, Wish we could join you, but due to pending paternity / maternity we are going to have to play it by ear, possibly arriving at the last minute. Coming from Baltimore, 6 in our group....really looking forward. Dave F. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 21:51:52 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: WTRF Chinese Cafe, Solid Love, Moon at the Window, Be Cool, Man to Man, and Love, are terrific, especially Wayne Shorter's playing on the last tune, {Love}, amazing..... Some of the tunes I could do without, not a complete album perhaps, but the above stuff is all great. THX DF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:49:54 EDT From: GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com Subject: Non Joni(Sort of)-My rainy day pix When Im in for the day because of the rain I spin: Cocteau Twins-Victorialand Joni Mitchell-Blue/Hissing of summer lawns (Thanks to Bob! Now that I have the demo's them too)! Brian Eno-Another green world Lisa Germano-Geek the girl Dead can dance-Aion Lisa Gerrard- Mirror pool I know a little depressing, but rain is sometimes! Peace and sunshine! Guru DJ Smithmix ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:02:52 EDT From: GuruDJSmithmix@aol.com Subject: Non Joni (sort of) My rainy day pix When Im in for the day because of the rain I spin: Cocteau Twins-Victorialand Joni Mitchell-Blue/Hissing of summer lawns (Thanks to Bob! Now that I have the demo's them too)! Brian Eno-Another green world Lisa Germano-Geek the girl Dead can dance-Aion Lisa Gerrard- Mirror pool I know a little depressing, but rain is sometimes! Peace and sunshine! Guru DJ Smithmix NP-Dimitri from Paris-A night at the playboy mansion (for the name alone) Get down with Hugh baby! Too chunky! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:21:01 EDT From: Murphycopy@aol.com Subject: interupting the sorrow... After being with the JMDL for a couple of days, I must say that you've been like family to me -- people who seem nice enough, but then act like perfect idiots when they get together. Can we drop this whole elitism thread? It's boring. Joni Mitchell is touring. That's exciting. I've always thought that anyone who loves Joni must be as wonderful as I am. Am I wrong? Because if I am I'll just go to CDNow right now and click on Britney (sic) Spears, OK? Oh, baby, I can't seem to make it with you Cyberly, Bob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:28:23 -0000 From: "Frederick Freeman" Subject: Superiority debates & NY concert I am sure that anyone who made comments that offended people had no intention of doing so, and its getting tiresome to scroll through this feud. The issues raised against the original essay posts have merit, but again, I don't think these people intended to make anyone feel inferior. I think like Rosie O's flub with Joni, maybe it was just a poor choice of words, which we all can do from time to time, college educated or not. Let's all just let it go and enjoy the art of Joni's music. I would like to see more openness to criticism. Joni is not infallable, I dont think many of us would disagree after listening to "Dancing Clown". (But, hey if that's your cup of tea, enjoy it without me). This brings me to last night's MSG performance which I attended. All in all, this was a wonderful show, but I noticed a few things that could be improved upon, and maybe if Joni does read these, they can be ironed out for the next album and tour. 1. The arrangments for the BSN stuff were just like on the album, which is great if you enjoyed them to begin with. I felt that almost every song on the record and in the show, had exactly the same feel. Somber, distant, lush to a fault. This would have been great for 1 or 2 tracks, but nearly the entire album, and show? Don't get me wrong, everything sounded gorgeous, just a little repetetive and monotonous. Why not use more of the big band sound hinted at in "Comes Love" or even a small combo, or bass & guitar ala Julie London. (That would really smoke!). In all fairness, we did get much more of this kind of "punch" in the show than on the record, but IMHO she could have had more variety in the arrangments. 2. The complexity of Joni's music really hit me when the orchestra did a fine job on the standards, then floundered helplessly with the rythyms of "A Case of You" I understand that there was not much time for rehearsal, it just points out the complexity of "her stuff", and the need for more rehearsal time 3. Why not throw in a surprise number at each show, maybe just with Larry, Herbie, Mark, and Peter. Oh and more stories!! In the context of the whole show, these things were relativly minor, and the show was classy and gorgeous, these are just some things that could be improved upon. Joni sounded wonderful. The presentation was high class and overall I would give the show a B+, but there is still room to rise to an A+. Oh, and my freind was sitting in front of a woman who was singing " A Case of You" at the top of her lungs along with Joni. And 2 women beside me could not stop gossiping and giggling. HOW RUDE!! Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:28:23 -0000 From: "Frederick Freeman" Subject: Superiority debates & NY concert I am sure that anyone who made comments that offended people had no intention of doing so, and its getting tiresome to scroll through this feud. The issues raised against the original essay posts have merit, but again, I don't think these people intended to make anyone feel inferior. I think like Rosie O's flub with Joni, maybe it was just a poor choice of words, which we all can do from time to time, college educated or not. Let's all just let it go and enjoy the art of Joni's music. I would like to see more openness to criticism. Joni is not infallable, I dont think many of us would disagree after listening to "Dancing Clown". (But, hey if that's your cup of tea, enjoy it without me). This brings me to last night's MSG performance which I attended. All in all, this was a wonderful show, but I noticed a few things that could be improved upon, and maybe if Joni does read these, they can be ironed out for the next album and tour. 1. The arrangments for the BSN stuff were just like on the album, which is great if you enjoyed them to begin with. I felt that almost every song on the record and in the show, had exactly the same feel. Somber, distant, lush to a fault. This would have been great for 1 or 2 tracks, but nearly the entire album, and show? Don't get me wrong, everything sounded gorgeous, just a little repetetive and monotonous. Why not use more of the big band sound hinted at in "Comes Love" or even a small combo, or bass & guitar ala Julie London. (That would really smoke!). In all fairness, we did get much more of this kind of "punch" in the show than on the record, but IMHO she could have had more variety in the arrangments. 2. The complexity of Joni's music really hit me when the orchestra did a fine job on the standards, then floundered helplessly with the rythyms of "A Case of You" I understand that there was not much time for rehearsal, it just points out the complexity of "her stuff", and the need for more rehearsal time 3. Why not throw in a surprise number at each show, maybe just with Larry, Herbie, Mark, and Peter. Oh and more stories!! In the context of the whole show, these things were relativly minor, and the show was classy and gorgeous, these are just some things that could be improved upon. Joni sounded wonderful. The presentation was high class and overall I would give the show a B+, but there is still room to rise to an A+. Oh, and my freind was sitting in front of a woman who was singing " A Case of You" at the top of her lungs along with Joni. And 2 women beside me could not stop gossiping and giggling. HOW RUDE!! Frederick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 22:02:06 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - Madison Square Garden Theater From: "patrick leader" Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:53:48 -0400 hi folks, submitted my report to jim around 2 pm today. it's too late for me to make any changes. this is hard!! and that capitilization of names and sentences shit... why!? jim has already put ppeterson of new york's report up and it's a great one. anyway, here's the official (hah!) one. patrick, about to settle down for one hour of will & grace np - real good for free - spectrum philly 1976 - ----------------------------- Joni Mitchell Tour Report, 05/22/00, NYC - Madison Square Garden Theater In what must have been the first indoor date of the Joni Mitchell "Both Sides Now" tour, Joni had to work a room. An old room, the Theater at MSG, which has been the Felt Forum, the Paramount and has seen a lot of history. An ugly room, compared to so many fine theaters in NY, but a room that just happens to have a lot of great seats to see Joni from. This was by far the best space I've seen Joni in, but it was not magic under the stars, so the girl had to work it. And work it she did, not just with showmanship (though there was some of that) but with vocal artistry. She sang real good. Though the songwriter's art came into view several times during the night, it was an evening for appreciating the singer's art. Joni Mitchell's voice, year 2000. And as you'll see in my report, Joni's rhythm, year 2000. After the overture, Claude Debussy's "Nuages" (clouds, appropriately: thanks to drummer Peter Erskine for clearing that up for us) Joni appeared in vivid, shiny purple. Definitely not Miyake, this was a full-length purple gown with an attached cape. She held on to the ends of the cape as if they were attached to her sleeves, through most of the set. The piece was not quite as haute couture as the dresses I've seen photographed earlier in the tour (and actually not as pretty or flattering) but the shade of purple was so aggressive you had to love it. Almost brassy. She did have a pair of shiny white slacks underneath, peeping out under the hem. No surprises in the set list. "You're My Thrill" warmed us up, as Joni warmed up, a little tentative. She gave a lovely introductory spiel, inviting us on a journey along the arc... I was warming up to the sound of an amplified orchestra (I attend a fair amount of classical concerts, which are rarely amplified, so this was a bit of a shock, especially during the Debussy.) She introduced "At Last", saying "Now, we're smitten; now we celebrate." An excellent entree to that song; it really does have a gleeful tinge. Next: "Comes Love", the first high point of the evening for me, with Isham on trumpet. Her introduction admitted to the oddness of its placement, only three songs into a set about "the arc of modern love". She called it "The Soothsayer Song of the Set", and it might be, but it also swings, and she swung with it. She also continued her journey into the "Children's Theater" possibilities in the lyrics. She had so much fun with lines like: Comes a mousy You can chase it with a broom or (especially this show) Comes a nightmare (Joni shivering like a cheesy horror movie, both vocally and physically) You can always stay awake Chuck Berghofer's standing bass was particularly sweet on "Comes Love". "You've Changed" is a genuine classic; some of us who had met before the show at Judy's Chelsea (where David Lahm was holding forth at the piano) had heard a cabaret style version of it. Joni was really loose by this point in the show (in the best sense of the word); she experimented with vocal line possibilities. And I have to say that here, and in every song, she could reach for possibilities because her pitch was just dead on. All night. Before heading into "Answer Me, My Love", she said, "We could've gone a number of different directions here, we decided to go straight into begging." Quite a laugh there. Then into "A Case of You", which drew the first standing ovation. Next she sang "Don't Go to Strangers", a pretty decent job (beautiful dreamy Isham trumpet at the beginning), but for me the show was beginning to hang; seven songs so far and only one with a little bit of zip. Thank god for the next song. Herbie Hancock came out for "Sometimes I'm Happy", and you could feel Joni's joy at sharing the stage. She tore it out. Here was my second big highlight; Joni Mitchell singing jazz that is not just harmonically adventurous, but rhythmically on the edge too. This was a sublime performance. "Don't Worry 'Bout Me", with its terrific barrel-voiced intro, was a perfect finish to Act 1. Act 2 was far stronger for this reviewer. Joni came out in sheer high-culcha drag, a Miyake gown, all pleated, with wire shape at knee level. It may have been the same one photographed so beautifully by Phyllis and Jimmy in Florida, but it appeared to be pure black. When someone yelled out "Joni, your outfit rocks", she replied, "It swings, too" and demonstrated. Stormy Weather was a great opener for the second set, and Joni's singing was straight-to-the-heart truthful. She then took Herbie and others into another rollicking, rhythmic ride: 'I Wish I Were In Love Again". Another peak moment in the show. The album, my previous experiences of seeing Joni live, her appearances on other albums; none of these prepared me for how hard she can swing, and how hard she swung last night. I've been reading the reports on the site as the tour has progressed, and from last night's show I got the impression that a lot of people have been. Either that, or a New York audience is more sophisticated than others. It was clear that people knew this was not a greatest hits concert; it was Joni with an orchestra doing mostly standards. When someone from the back yelled out "play your old songs", the audience shushed her. It was particularly ironic that this happened at the beginning of Both Sides Now. As we quieted down, and the band played those first beautiful wavelets of violin lines, and Joni, with pure simplicity, gently placed the first verse into the arrangement, and into the room, and into our hearts; well, I was completely gone by then. If the first act was a hair disappointing for me, I was glowing by this point. And then with her "arc of a modern romance" and the album play-through complete, the show took another leap forward. She said that she and Klein had enjoyed the BSN project so much that they were working on another one: orchestrations of more of her originals. She claimed that Klein was choosing the songs, allegedly from "the darker side of my oeuvre". I'm not sure I'm buyin' that one! Then she said, "So I chose this one to lighten it up". Be Cool! Just incredible. It was an orchestral arrangement, yes, except that the strings sat this one out. Just the brass (and that section was brilliant all night) and rhythm sections, for a completely jazzy take on a song that's always been one of her more jazzy songs. Not like this though! Ludwig's tune was, for me, just odd. Not a favorite of mine, so I couldn't say whether I liked the arrangement. I will say that I think the orchestra was right on top of it. The solo oboe was beautiful. Hejira was amazing. The rhythm was, I think, similar to "Nothing Can Be Done" which she has described as a lambada. I don't know if that's accurate. In any case, she gave it the most impassioned reading I've heard from her. Given my love for this song and for all things rhythmic, I was in heaven. For The Roses was, for me, the perfect justification of this orchestral project. This was a brilliant arrangement of the song, perfect musically, perfect vocally, perfect lyrically. She sang the hell out of it, impassioned and direct. This, when the new album comes out, will be one of the reasons I'll rush to buy it. Joni, Herbie, Mark, Klein and the band (!) finished with another smokin' version of Trouble Man. So this was truly a wonderful evening, with great musicians supporting another great musician. But for me the real surprise was this: though the album is a torch album and the show could have been, the best parts of the show (with two exceptions) were the songs where Joni got to swing. I can't wait to see where she goes next with this. You know I'll be along for the ride. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 23:27:44 From: Lisa Kowalski Subject: Giving Thanks!(JC) Just wanted to say how much I enjoyed meeting the Joni list people in Atlanta.I especially want to thank Victor and his lovely girlfriend Holly for being such a gracious host and hostess(I instantly felt at home!)I enjoyed meeting Bob,Steve,Paul,Ken,Jess and Alice!(Everyone was very friendly )Thanks to Jess for such a sweet compliment!(I enjoyed meeting you and talking to you also!)Thanks to Alice for taking such wonderful photos of Joni!(I enjoyed sitting so close to the stage with you!)Thanks to Bob for being so entertaining and interesting,just like he is on the list! Thanks to Victor for driving me and Holly,Bob,Jess and Alice to Chastain and for giving such a wonderful house concert the next night! Victor is such a talented singer songwriter and musician.I was extrememly impressed with his guitar playing,beautiful voice and songwriting abilities.Very special thanks to Larry Klein for being so very friendly and talking to us and for patting me on my shoulder! And extra special thanks go to Joni for looking so stunning and beautiful and for singing so beautifully and for giving me and everyone else an evening we will never forget!! I was thrilled to see her again and was as high as a kite before,during and at least two days after the concert! I was staying with my mother in Atlanta(I live in N. Carolina) and I believe I drove her crazy with so much Joni talk! So thanks to my Mom for putting up with my obsessive behavior! Oh,I almost forgot,I also need to thank my orthopedic surgeon for allowing me to schedule surgery on my right shoulder(the same one Larry patted!!) until after Joni's concert! I'm having a manipulation and arthroscopy of my right shoulder tomorrow(May 24th) and last but not least thanks to the JMDL for being such a wonderful,loving,caring ,friendly bunch of people!! I hope everyone enjoys Joni's remaining concerts! Take Care...Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:12:15 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Inner Circle Meeting Time Change Howdy circlers!! The meeting time of the JMDL Inner Circle has been changed from 13:00 GMT to 15:00 GMT but the place has remained unchanged. See all you cool people there! All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:29:09 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: MSG May 23rd Just a quick note to say I was totally blown away by the show. Joni sounded EXCELLENT!!! When she performed Hejira I was blown away!! I can't wait till Thursday!!! WHOO-HOOOO!!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:29:24 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: May 25th Show Meet'n'Greet Hello Dear Friends, This is my last attempt to get something together in the way of a rendezvous at the Merriweather Pavillion on the 25th of May (tomorrow). If anyone would like to get together either before or after the show please e-mail me. I would love to put a face to a name or meet someone from the list. I have been on the list for almost a year or more now...and wouldn't mind actually chatting in "real time" with someone. Hope to see you there. Take care, Julian ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 02:41:30 EDT From: Seulbzzaj@aol.com Subject: Back to the Garden Joni's NYC concert tonight was even better than the Monday performance. The sound quality was improved, and Joni seemed to jell more with the orchestra. Her phrasing in Both Sides Now was a revelation, and she looked gorgeous. I was shocked to see so many empty seats, as I exited the theatre. I guess the only reason the concert wasn't sold out must be due to the high ticket prices. I must confess that I had to leave after For The Roses, and missed the Trouble Man encore. I have a 2 hour commute, and I missed my train Monday night by about 5 minutes, and got stuck at Penn Station for 2 hours until my next train...didn't want to repeat that again. I had a great time at Judy's Chelsea on Monday night. David Lahm is an excellent pianist, and I thouroughly enjoyed the singers. I certainly will be going back. I'm sorry I didn't get to speak with more of the folks from the list. I did chat a bit with Paul, who travelled from Wales for the concert(!), and then got engaged in conversation with some of the singers - before I knew it, it was time for the concert. I had a minor 'incident' at Monday's concert - I had made up a tape of rare late Billie Holiday recordings to give to Joni. After For The Roses, I walked to the front of the stage, and as Joni was nearly center stage, I took the tape out of my pocket, which enraged the nasty security guard. The guy started yelling at me to get out of there - Joni was close, but was totally oblivious to this, looking at the fans directly in front of her. To make a long story short, I attempted to throw the tape in Joni's direction. The tape slid across part of the stage, and hit the foot of the first violinist, who looked over at me. I asked him to give the tape to Joni - he smiled and nodded - so I hope she did get it...Apologies for this disjointed post. - Scott ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #206 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?