From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #194 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk Archives: http://www.smoe.org/lists/onlyjoni Websites: http://www.jmdl.com http://www.jonimitchell.com Unsubscribe: mailto:onlyjoni-digest-request@smoe.org?body=unsubscribe onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 194 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: The State of the JMDL Report [Phyliss Ward ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["P. Henry" ] Re: tape trees and Napster [Mark Domyancich ] Hilburn interview [Steve Dulson ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Mike Hicks" ] www.audiophileimports.com is selling Joni on DVD [dennis.leong@mcd.com] River by Rosanne Cash [philipf@tinet.ie] River by Rosanne Cash ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: River by Rosanne Cash [philipf@tinet.ie] RE: River by Rosanne Cash ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: Happiness is the best facelift [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Happiness is the best facelift ["Ken (slarty)" ] FW: Urge for Going Controversy ["Peg Eves" ] RE: "Conversation" by . . . ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["Peg Eves" ] Re: The State of the JMDL Report [Brian Gross ] RE: Urge for Going Controversy ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner, VERY LONG ["Jim L'Hommed] Re: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Shadows & Light on DVD ["Jim L'H] Re: Urge for Loyalty [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #260 ["Kate Bennett" ] Joni & Croz at Woodstock ["Kate Bennett" ] RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 ["Kate Bennett" ] New Lister [Emmy M Burns ] Joni's LA Concert [davidpaulmarine@webtv.net (David Marine)] Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock [Brian Gross ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 [jw1327@rcn.com] Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock [Scott Price ] Yet another Joni mention on Rosie [Phyliss Ward ] "Joni Mitchell never lies..." [Jason Maloney ] Re: Urge for Going Controversy ["Mark or Travis" ] VideoTree #1 ["Kate Bennett" ] Urge for going.....to W.Palm [MP123A321@aol.com] Re: Urge for Loyalty [IVPAUL42@aol.com] report from a viola player [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: Urge for going.....to W.Palm ["Kakki" ] Tshirts [Seanapper@aol.com] Re: New Lister [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Concord show ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 09:57:41 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL Report This is wonderful news Les! I've been wondering with all the newbies checking in...Thanks for sharing! Les Irvin wrote: > Just thought I'd let everyone know that the JMDL has hit an all-time record > high for membership. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:18:34 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy well said, catherine! I especially liked: "Joni Mitchell never lies" :o) we are always seeing our fair lady ranting on the music biz and the low-to-no level of artistic effort put into current pop musak and for this she is viewed my many as mal-content, if not downright bitchy... but these assume her motives to be selfish while, in truth, she doesn't have to take second place to anyone... and isn't it really that she's just very, very.... (too?) honest? (you know... the way your little sister was 'too honest' about what you and johnny were doing on the back porch? LoL!) also, I agree that UFG is not a 'man's' song like Winter Lady or Free Man are and I would also wonder if that's what the writer intended... for my part, in my response, I was referring more to the experience of looking at Joni's songlist (she would've taught me any of them I asked her to) and determining the ones I *could* do, determining factors being: a) the extreme limits of my guitar playing ability, b) my range and, c) naturally, the lyric content. as I stated before, Urge is well suited for a male voice (as instrument) and there is nothing in the lyric that's prohibitive to either a man or a woman singing it. it worked quite well for me. ;o) pat - -- Catherine wrote: >...It's a Joni song, dammit - Joni has too much integrity to steal from someone else, and she doesn't need to. (Joni Mitchell never lies.)> >Peace and all that... Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:23:35 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster I agree they shouldn't be apart of Napster. If someone gets their hands on it and decides to make a boot of it then we would feel terrible. Blanks and postage or trading all the way!!! NP-Phish, Farmhouse-Bug At 11:20 AM -0500 5/17/00, Eric G. Postel wrote: >I am completely against this and the reason is that you are >partially correct about MP3 maintaining audio quality. When a >digital >recording is converted to MP3, bits of data are lost and hence >quality drops. Of course, compared to a 5th generation analog tape, >MP3 is better but that is not a good comparison because almost all >analog traders are moving towards CDr anyways. Combined with all >the legal problems Napster is getting caught up with, why risk >getting dragged into that. I vot against Napster and MP3 for trees > - -- Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net tape trading: http://homepage.mac.com/mtd/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 10:39:29 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Hilburn interview Deb Messling wrote: >I don't think this brief interview has been posted. It appears in today's >Miami Herald Online. It was published in the LA Times when the CD came out - not sure if it made it to the list or not. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:02:13 -0500 From: "Mike Hicks" Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 > Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:22:58 -0400 (EDT) > From: les@jmdl.com (JMDL Digest) > To: joni-digest@smoe.org > Subject: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 > Reply-to: joni@smoe.org > How about The Roches anyone? Patty Smith? Jane Siberry? Yes, please more info on these artists. They are all very good. Jane Siberry is so innovative. Mikei > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 12:43:54 -0500 From: dennis.leong@mcd.com Subject: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Joni on DVD JONI MITCHELL * SHADOWS AND LIGHT (J)DVD $49.99 Qty (Bass) 2000 release. Now only available as an import, reissued (although appearing for the first time on DVD) with an additional fifteen minutes of footage, including the tracks "Edith And The Kingpin," "Hejira," and "Why Do Fools Fall In Love?" This incredible band recorded live in Santa Barbera, CA. in 1979. Joni Mitchell, guitar, vocals; Pat Metheny, lead guitar; Michael Brecker, sax; Lyle Mays, keys; Jaco Pastorius, bass; Don Alias, drums; and The Persuasions, on vocals. This version also features Jaco's solo, and the track "Raised On Robbery," not included on the 2 cd set. Running time 75 minutes. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:05:14 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: River by Rosanne Cash I've had Rosanne Cash's version of River on almost constant repeat in the car for the past two days. Once in a while (probably in a big blue moon) the right singer and the right song combine like this. Johnny's little girl never sounded more blue. Thanks to Clive in Blighty for sending me the tape of this and other great stuff. Philip NP Richard Harris - The Yard Went On Forever ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:12:44 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: River by Rosanne Cash <> I'm supposed to be getting this one as well to put on Covers, Volume 5 - I'm anxious to hear it. Also on the same disc will be Dianne Reeves' "River" which is exquisite! Starts off with almost an Asian feel to it...I also am fond of Heart's take, and of course I was nuts for JT's cover on the tribute, which got mixed reviews from this crowd. Many "River"s to cross! :~) Bob NP: Crime & The City Solution, "The Adversary" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:27:24 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: River by Rosanne Cash I believe it's on it's way to you oh master of covers. >and of course I was nuts for JT's cover on the > tribute, which got mixed reviews from this crowd. I thought JT's cover was pleasant enough. But Rosanne is the real blue business in my opinion. Philip NP KD Lang - drag ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:33:37 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: River by Rosanne Cash <> And a good thing too! I was starting to develop a case of "Cover Envy"! And while I'm thinking about it, I also think Thomas Dolby's "Jungleline" is a perfect mix of voice/synthesizer & Joni song, as is "Midway" and Bonnie, and "I Had A King" and Adrienne Barbeau (well, 2 outta 3 ain't bad!) :~) Bob NP: REM, "Fretless" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:44:30 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Happiness is the best facelift In a message dated 5/17/00 9:10:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, slarty@sympatico.ca writes: << Well I don't thing that Joni intended it as a pun though I sure know that John Lennon did. Happiness is a warm gun. > A penis is a warm gun. I certainly can't see a penis being a facelift. kerry wrote: > I was just wondering how other people interpret the line, "Happiness is the > best facelift." >> i always thought she was talking about herself. that she was happy and didn't that override her living outside of her mother's standards. and at 50 something, happiness is the best face lift of all, so why can't her mother see that in her face? and i also think about her two portraits...the one on ti and the one on ttt and she certainly looks happier on ttt. now this penis thing going, seems a different type of happiness. happiness is a warm gun > happiness is a face lift > a penis is a warm gun > so happiness is a warm penis? possibly? but not exclusively as i recall copi's logic. sorry. i'm out of my normal patterns this week. pat np. a boys dream ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:50:59 -0400 From: "Ken (slarty)" Subject: Re: Happiness is the best facelift I'm afraid this is just to confusing for me at the moment as I need a good sleep. Hopefully I won't be dreaming of penises, facelifts, warm guns or copi's logic in any order. Night all. Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > now this penis thing going, seems a different type of happiness. happiness > is a warm gun > happiness is a face lift > a penis is a warm gun > so > happiness is a warm penis? possibly? but not exclusively as i recall copi's > logic. > > sorry. i'm out of my normal patterns this week. pat > np. a boys dream ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:53:05 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: FW: Urge for Going Controversy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com] On Behalf Of P. Henry Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 1:19 PM To: Catherine McKay Cc: joni@smoe.org Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy well said, catherine! I especially liked: "Joni Mitchell never lies" :o) we are always seeing our fair lady ranting on the music biz and the low-to-no level of artistic effort put into current pop musak and for this she is viewed my many as mal-content, if not downright bitchy... but these assume her motives to be selfish while, in truth, she doesn't have to take second place to anyone... and isn't it really that she's just very, very.... (too?) honest? (you know... the way your little sister was 'too honest' about what you and johnny were doing on the back porch? LoL!) also, I agree that UFG is not a 'man's' song like Winter Lady or Free Man are and I would also wonder if that's what the writer intended... for my part, in my response, I was referring more to the experience of looking at Joni's songlist (she would've taught me any of them I asked her to) and determining the ones I *could* do, determining factors being: a) the extreme limits of my guitar playing ability, b) my range and, c) naturally, the lyric content. as I stated before, Urge is well suited for a male voice (as instrument) and there is nothing in the lyric that's prohibitive to either a man or a woman singing it. it worked quite well for me. ;o) pat - -- Catherine wrote: >...It's a Joni song, dammit - Joni has too much integrity to steal from someone else, and she doesn't need to. (Joni Mitchell never lies.)> >Peace and all that... Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:06:44 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: "Conversation" by . . . < mentioned.>> > The only one I know of is Catgirl's on the Jonifest '99 Boxset, and she nails it! :~) But "Conversation" should be a good candidate for a cover - it's a pretty, poppy sounding thing! Bob NP: Daniel Lanois, "Sleeping In the Devil's Bed" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:13:11 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Urge for Loyalty I think it's so lovely how loyal we are to 'Our Lady' as, is it Paul? - refers to her. I agree with Pat & Catherine, "Joni Mitchell doesn't lie" . She is TRUE. Her Art is TRUE. Lies about what Johney & I (or Judy & I) did on the back porch are different from the URGE type of untruth. I might "lie" about Judy & me. Joni MIGHT "lie" about she and Larry but no artist of Joni's caliber could lie about writing a song. Crediting people for their work is fun. Sorry so long. Peg > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:27:47 -0400 From: "Peg Eves" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy Yo Bob, Nix the "had a girl in summertime" explanation. I've had girls in summertime and I'm a girl. I know Joni is not herself a woman- oriented- woman in the affectional or sexual sense, but in general that theory wouln't neccessarily apply. You know what I mean. Respectfully, Peg > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-joni@jmdl.com [mailto:owner-joni@jmdl.com]On Behalf Of Bob > Muller (Perception) > Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 11:23 AM > To: 'catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca' > Cc: 'Joni@smoe.org' > Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy > > > < song". I'm not quite sure what that means >> > > It means there's a line in the song that goes "I had a girl in summertime, > with summer-colored skin".... > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: The State of the JMDL Report - --- Les wrote: > Just thought I'd let everyone know that the JMDL has hit an all-time record > high for membership. We now have 724 members as follows: > Joni list: 128 subscribers (17.6%) > JoniDigest list: 486 subscribers (67.1%) > OnlyJoni List: 26 subscribers (3.6%) > OnlyJoniDigest list: 84 subscribers (11.6%) Does this mean that 110 of you have some sort of a non-JMDL life??? Take care everyone, Brian np: California Celebrates The Whales Day (11/20/76) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:05:53 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: Urge for Going Controversy > <> > > Well, from what I know of Joni in '66/'67, she wouldn't have had a lesbian > relationship in mind when she wrote the song, and she's never alluded to > such in any reference I've ever seen, so all I was saying was that that > line was why UFG felt like a "man's" song...the beauty of Joni's tunes are > the personal things we bring to them that make them work for us, right? > > Bob > > NP: Kitaro, "Island of Life" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 13:04:35 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Urge for Loyalty Oh Peg, You don't have to urge anyone's loyalty here! ;-) I don't think anyone here has said Joni "stole" the song or "lied" about it. Even if the story is true, Joni's integrity remains intact, in my opinion. I am involved in the legal end of these types of issues in my work so I tend to look at the whole controversy in an analytical, "what if" way. What we learned from the woman's email so long ago was that Joni allegedly *bought* the *bare bones* of the song for $1.00 from some guy traveling through the coffeehouse. If true, she did not *steal* it, and back in those days it was not uncommon for people to buy songs and get the rights to them. It may not be Kosher, but it wasn't necessarily illegal. It would have been looked at as a kind of contract. If she took the bare bones of the song and made them substantially her own, she might have a good case for taking credit for the song. Also, it would be possible that she may not have credited him down the road because she may not have known or remembered his name! This is just a hypothetical discussion not an accusation of her. And it's not to ever imply that she was not creative and talented enough to come up with her own songs. Hypothetically, she may have just loved the sound of it and wanted to improve upon it. *Hypothetically* Long before I ever read that woman's email, I wondered why Joni never released this song on any album and why she did not include it in her first songbook. She did finally release it only as a "B" side on the 1972 single "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio." And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s? I don't think there would be as much questioning if not for these curious facts. But again, this is just a lot of pondering and certainly not an assertion of gospel truth! Kakki, one of her most ardent loyalists! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:22:56 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner, VERY LONG What a neat thread. I think that everyone has valid points so far and it's great to see a lively discussion on distribution of Joni's rarities. It's a topic close to my heart. Let's look at the quality question first. There are two quality levels, basically, in the tape trees. You have the modern recordings from the 1990s and 2000s, but then you have stuff recorded with portable 1960s tape recorders and crappy mics. The modern stuff, like the Yasgur's Farm tape is of very high quality for example, even though it's an audience recording. I believe that the high priest over in Tape Procurement uses a portable DAT recorder. This DAT tape then goes to cassette without ANY intermediate steps! That's why we have that great detail in the Hammerstein Ballroom tape! I noticed that the sound of applause on the TV version sounds like rain on a tin roof. On the uhhhh..... JMDL audience tape, (the one that I've been describing as a surrealistic audiophile version) the applause sounds like people close to you are clapping- no drama just simple truth. The high priest had a better microphone on the audience than the TV people did, clearly. This final layer of quality can be reproduced on a nice stereo or home theatre but probably not on any boom box or any set of _normal_ computer speakers. So I'm thinking that cassette tape and video tape with Hi-Fi tracks are the prefered method of transmission for the modern JMDL recordings. On the other hand, there's some neat stuff on the tape trees that are of lower quality. For example, who would want to pass on the tapes of Joni at the Second Fret coffee house in 1966, just because the quality is below our present standards? Not me. This stuff loses very little when translated into boomboxes and _normal_ computer speakers. It would be perfect material for distribution in mp3 format. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be offered in both formats. By tape for the diehards and on mp3 for the public. Here's my take on using Napster- and I haven't heard anyone else say this yet. Let's say a college kid is going to search on "Joni Mitchell" using Napster. If she gets "hits" and "Rarities by JMDL" as results, wouldn't it be great if we could draw one or two kids away from stealing Joni's catalog??????? The kid gets Rarities by JMDL and thinks, "Wow, this is so _inside_, how cool! I'll buy the CDs when I have the money but for now, I can hear Joni in her coffee house days free. It's neat to hear this artist develop." I think it would set the hook deeper than if the kid got "Big Yellow Taxi". This two tiered approach to distribution would solve the hard drive problem too. We could just put a small selection of early recordings (tape tree 1 and the retrospective part of 3) on mp3. One technical challange here is how do you take a line-level input and convert it to mp3? My Napster won't let me- it's oriented exclusively towards stealing CD tracks. I had some freeware that let me do it but it expired. On a practical level, how much hard drive space does an 45 minutes of mp3 take? I have one gig free, a fast connection (ADSL, 500 kbps) and a firewall to keep the hackers out. My connection is always on. I'm willing to put up a _trial_ mp3 of side 1 of cassette 1 of the radio retrospective from Tape Tree #3 if someone can solve the encoding problem. Is there a way to know how many times a track has been stolen, uhhhh I mean downloaded, from a Napster installation? The manager in me wants to see numbers. Finally I think it's important to keep some perspective. How may people do we think would actually access these mp3s? Rather than ask the JMDL communtity to purchase a big hard drive to distribute the trees, I'd like to see the legal eagles among us find a way to create a structure to pay the costs for Mr. Johanson and Mr. Irwin. JMDL fundraisers as needed, like public television here in the US and public accounting? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 16:23:39 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: www.audiophileimports.com is selling Shadows & Light on DVD The video "Shadows And Light" includes the most amazing version of "Amelia"! Metheny takes off in careful, ethereal solo that is beyond description by human beings. It's the most amazing thing...... I'm speechless. Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:19:44 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Loyalty << And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s? >> Well, she DOES do it on the 2nd Fret set from the Tape Trees, and again on the Gerdes Folk Festival in '67, and a Folk City '67 show, so apparently it was a part of her performing repertoire... But your point is taken and there are still lots of open questions about it! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:29 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 Peg askis,"For instance, how many were at Woodstock '69? How many are parents, how many are musicians" I am all three! Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:25 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #260 please forgive me for baring my soul here....I just thought you would understand and really get it . mags Thank you for baring your soul, you brought me to tears... Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:19 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: Joni & Croz at Woodstock Hope this hasn't already been posted (haven't seen it but I'm a digester) Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the weekend" Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:32:27 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 RE: "I was wondering how people feel about trading Joni's tape trees through Napster instead of by mail." Napster is pretty controversial-many artists are speaking against it. You might consider this in your decision. (don't shoot the messenger, please) Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:27:43 -0700 From: Emmy M Burns Subject: New Lister Hello Everyone, I cannot express how wonderful it is to have found you all. I have been an avid visitor of jonimitchell.com for several years but never knew this list existed. What a thrill it has been these past few days hearing all your personalized reviews of her concerts. My mother and I attended the San Francisco concert on the eve of mother's day and it was absolutely amazing. The night was rather chilly and we came unprepared, but we wrapped a blanket around our shoulders and our faces gleamed with excitement in the stage light and the joy that emanated from the woman herself. It was my mother's first Joni concert and my second. She discovered Joni in 1974 and promptly introduced her music to me via womb (right around the time of the Don Juan's Reckless Daughter release - somehow I have a strange connection to that album). Needless to say it was amazing for both of us to whisper-croon right along with Joni as we have sung along with records, tapes and CD's for over twenty years now. So glad such insightful Joni listeners are out there, I look forward to posts each day. If anyone is willing to pass on information about tape trees and how to go about making exchanges it would be greatly appreciated (I had no idea they were out there). Emmy in Seattle ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 14:41:41 -0700 (PDT) From: davidpaulmarine@webtv.net (David Marine) Subject: Joni's LA Concert Hey List -- I'm an "erstwhile" contributor to the list and occasional lurker. I've enjoyed reading all the concert posts, and while I know it's many days late, I feel compelled to share a few of my thoughts on the LA concert. First, I have to say that it was a beautiful night, and an extraordinary and very beautiful concert. Joni was sublime. She was completely dedicated to realizing her vision, completely open and loving in her expression, completely sincere. Her banter was charming though minimal (except for the funny, moving, illustrative, and instantly classic Beethoven story), and her phrasing on much of the BSN material was even more nuanced and expressive than it is on the album. I was deeply moved, especially when listening to the reworkings of her old material. Somehow the orchestration removes them so completely from their original context that the effect is to highlight the gulf of time and experience that lies between the artist/person that Joni was and that which she has become. And so for me the emotional resonance of these songs created not so much a feeling of nostalgia, but rather more of an appreciation for the continuation and growth of life, love, and art. After the show I thought to myself that this is truly what makes a Diva. Not just that she has "divine" talent, but that she has lived to the point that she can evoke a universal, worldly, and increasingly powerful pathos. It was thrilling to hear the newly orchestrated material performed for the first time. I am very curious to know what stage of development these songs are in, and exactly what the nature of the collaborative process is between Joni, Klein, and Mendoza as they work on the next album. I thought "Be Cool" was the most fully realized and the one in which Joni felt most comfortable. It was beautiful. "Hejira" was also gorgeously and lovingly done; I appreciated the varied and subtle use of the orchestra and the lightness created by the "samba" beat, as it has been called here (and I would say that is probably accurate; it had a little of the flavor of the clip from the VH1 Coast To Coast jam on Tape Tree One -- the one with Wayne, Herbie, David Sanborn, and Bobby McFerrin). I thought "Judgement Of The Moon And Stars" was impressive but a bit awkward. It was so ambitious, and so grand, that to me it needed to be perfect to work, and it wasn't polished. Still, in places Joni's vocals were so expressive, honest, and penetrating that I had chills. "For The Roses" was stunning. The orchestration was ethereal, but here I felt that perhaps Joni had not yet really found the vocal cadence to fit the arrangement (this is just how it seemed to me at the time and I could be dead wrong). Her vocals on the last two stanzas, however, were powerful and haunting. When the dying strains of the song kept slowly and softly breathing, and the empty spotlight theatrically revealed that Joni had made her exit (stage left, in darkness), the audience was enraptured. The piece ended, and for a moment there was genuine, absolute silence. Well, those are just some random thoughts. I feel very fortunate to watch Joni as her art continues to evolve. Though awed by her talent, I am even more overwhelmed by the dedication and love of her spirit. David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:07:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock - --- Kate Bennett wrote: > Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: > > "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the > weekend" Well, it seems that either: Scott's leg was getting pulled by the guy telling a good story OR Crosby has burned out enough brain cells that he no longer remembers :-) So W.Palm goers and Atlanta goers - it's up to you this week to find out. Right from the source (if you can get lucky enough for an encore visit with Siquomb) Take care everyone, Brian np: Joni at GM Place 5/14/98 ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:16:41 -0400 From: jw1327@rcn.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #261 Hello all- I really don't know what the ticket situation is like in NYC, but I have an extra ticket to the May 22 Joni concert which I would be glad to sell for what I paid for it (my concert date backed out at the last minute). If you're interested, you can email me directly at jw1327@rcn.com. First come first served, I guess. JW ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:41:58 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Joni & Croz at Woodstock At 03:07 PM 5/17/00 -0700, Brian Gross wrote: >>Kate Bennett wrote: >> Straight from the Croz's mouth re: Joni at Woodstock: >> "not true I'm afraid ......she was never there and I was only there for the >> weekend" >Well, it seems that either: >Scott's leg was getting pulled by the guy telling a good story OR >Crosby has burned out enough brain cells that he no longer remembers :-) My B.S. meter was immediately tweaked when the guy began the story but the more we chatted the more sincere it seemed, and then, as previously written, when Shawn found that reference in "Starart" it helped to validate the event. But the Croz seemingly puts an end to the story...and BTW Crosby seems very much "with it" these days...I'm sure he would remember if he was at the festival site a few days before or just for the weekend. I have the gentleman's address and will be sending to him, as promised, a copy of Joni's "A Day At The Garden" performance. At that time I'll enclose a short note saying Crosby himself shot holes in the story. Think I'll get any response? Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 15:47:02 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Yet another Joni mention on Rosie Rosie was talking to guest, John Stamos, who is apparently married to Rebecca DeMornay. John says to Rosie that the last time he saw her they were at the Joni Mitchell Tribute Concert and proceeds to complain about the cameras being on them the whole time and how annoying it was. He says it should have been the Rosie and John Tribute. Rosie agreed it was annoying but then piped in and said how wonderful Joni is and what an incredible performer she is. John agrees. Ok, so I work from home and the TV is on in the background a lot. Sue me! Phyliss ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:01:47 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: "Joni Mitchell never lies..." ...is, of course, taken from the Q-Tip rap during Janet Jackson's BYT-sampling Got Til It's Gone. Nice reference Catherine - impeccable as ever! :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 17:52:52 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Urge for Going Controversy > < song". I'm not quite sure what that means >> > > It means there's a line in the song that goes "I had a girl in summertime, > with summer-colored skin".... Hmmm....on my 'Hits' cd she sings 'I had me a *man* in summertime, *he* had summer colored skin/and not another *girl* in town my lover's heart could win' Mark in Seattle still planning on writing a concert report as soon as I can get caught up with email & get my thoughts in order ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 19:06:21 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: VideoTree #1 Is it possible to get a copy of this video listed on the JMDL site? Haven't done this before so let me know the ropes. Also would be happy to contribute to the website- who/where do I sent it to? Thanks! Kate Bennett Singer/Songwriter email kate@katebennett.com website www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:31:10 EDT From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: Urge for going.....to W.Palm About UFG.. Kakki wrote: <<....She did finally release it only as a "B" side on the 1972 single "You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio." And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s?>> According to an article about her performance at Mariposa '66 - Folk Festival - The Globe 8/20/66 "They came to be entertained; to hear Pete Seeger sing Down By The Riverside with the Staple Singers at the close of a Friday night concert at which Joni Mitchell, a willowy Canadian, painted lyrical pictures of life on the Prairies...... "And I get the urge for goin', when The meadow grass is turnin' brown, and Summer time is fallin' down, and Winter's closin' in." I believe UFG is performed on some early tapes..circa 60's. It is that very 1972 single with non-lp B-side release that started me collecting Joni recordings. Up until Hits and Misses ...I bought every playable copy I could find and gave many of them away to Joni lovers. I had a serious urge to go to W. Palm at 7pm tonite....a little too late..oh well. Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:38:35 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Loyalty In a message dated 5/17/00 4:17:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << And why don't we ever hear her performing it early Second Fret sets or other performances from the 60s? I don't think there would be as much questioning if not for these curious facts. >> I did hear her perform Urge in a concert in Chicago, either January '72 or the next time I saw her in '73. Cannot recall which, but I do know she opened her second set with it after the intermission. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:51:05 EDT From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: report from a viola player A new friend that I have just started working with played viola with the orchestra that backed Joni on Friday at the Greek. He reported to me that they rehearsed for a day and half at the Raleigh film studios in a building the size of an airplane hangar. The violist is from Poland and not that familiar with pop music, but he said he was very impressed with Joni as a jazz singer, particularly her renditions of You're My Thrill and Stormy Weather. He noted that she does not have much range, but that she has great interpretive skills. He said Joni was smoking a lot during rehearsals which was annoying some of the other musicians even though it was a large sound stage. Finally, someone from the studio had to announce over the public address system that smoking was not allowed inside the building. The message was addressed tactfully to all of the other nonsmoking musicians but meant only for Siquomb. He said Joni was very late to the next day's rehearsal -- but traffic was so awful that night that audience members were still filtering into the concert an hour after it was supposed to have started. Otherwise he said that Joni has a very large entourage of men, that she was surrounded by them like workers around the queen bee. He made particular mention of Larry Klein who he seemed to think was the king drone and who was particularly protective of Joni -- everything that merited Joni's attention was filtered through him first. Honey to the bees, baby. The viola player was surprised to find out that Joni confesses to struggling with reading music and could not tell you what key she was in. Of her compositions, he was most impressed by Hejira which seemed very original to him, full of interesting dissonances. He thought Joni gave a good concert and said Vince Mendoza was a brilliant arranger but not his favorite conductor to work with as he is a little laxed at the podium. Reporting Live from Los Angeles for the Joni Mitchell Network, - - Clark NP: Road to You -- Pat Metheny Group ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 18:47:29 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Urge for going.....to W.Palm Maurice wrote: > According to an article about her performance at Mariposa '66 - Folk Festival - The Globe 8/20/66 >"They came to be entertained; to hear Pete Seeger sing Down By The Riverside with the Staple >Singers at the close of a Friday night concert at which Joni Mitchell, a willowy Canadian, painted >lyrical pictures of life on the Prairies...... "And I get the urge for goin', when The meadow grass is >turnin' brown, and Summer time is fallin' down, and Winter's closin' in." Thanks, Maurice, Bob and Paul for the Joni "beginning history" lesson. I'm glad to hear she played it fairly regularly in the old days because it is one of my favorites. If I could have a Joni wish, I would wish to be transported back to those early days seeing her just starting out along with Pat Henry and a few lucky others here. > I had a serious urge to go to W. Palm at 7pm tonite....a little too late..oh > well. Hope you make it to Atlanta, Maurice. You cannot miss this show! Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 21:57:28 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Tshirts Hi Debby. From what I remember at the Concord Pavilion, they sold Tshirts with the cover paintings from Turbulent Indigo, Taming the Tiger, one that had no painting but had a circular design with printing inside that listed the songs from Both Sides Now (sort of like the sticker that was attached to the wrapper on the limited edition of BSN), one with the BSN painting on the front and the back-of-the-head painting on the back (I got that one), and a black one that had the words, "Happiness is the best facelift...Joni Mitchell" printed in white. Neil in Seattle From: "Debby Magill" Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 00:01:59 -0400 Hi guys! As you most of you know, I am not able to go see Joni but Jimmy Stewart (my ticket savior!) has offered to pick up a t-shirt for me but I don't know which one to get since I don't know what they're offering ...! Would someone please send me a brief description of what's available? I would truly appreciate it :~) I have searched the web but came up empty-handed. Thanks in advance! And to all of you going to see Joni in FL, I hope that it is all that you dreamed it would be! Blow a kiss for me! All the best ~ Debby in Mad Beach ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:22:39 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: New Lister << Needless to say it was amazing for both of us to whisper-croon right along with Joni as we have sung along with records, tapes and CD's for over twenty years now. >> Wow, what a great night for you & your Mom, Emmy! Thanks so much for sharing it and welcome to the list! Bob NP(Now Playing): "At Last" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:47:49 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: tape trees and Napster, Audiophile's Corner Major props to all on this thread! This is certianly a hot button as Kate pointed out. For clarity, no one has proposed that we put ANY catalog material out in mp3 format. Or any format for that matter! I personally understand that lots of dollars have basically been stolen from artists and record companies, and record outlets, etc with the rise of this new technology. I think we may be on to a noble use for what was basically a bad idea.... Kudos to Ken and our Founder Les for suggesting MusicMatch for making mp3s. I'm reading up tonight! How fun- a completely NEW, time wasting hobby! Like job hunting, moving, and COBOL isn't enough, I have to pick up this. I guess learning Photoshop will have to wait for now....... Sheeesh! Lamadoo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:46:56 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for Going Controversy In a message dated 5/17/00 7:04:48 PM US Central Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Hmmm....on my 'Hits' cd she sings 'I had me a *man* in summertime, *he* had summer colored skin/and not another *girl* in town my lover's heart could win' >> Cool, Mark - I didn't know that, I assumed it was the same recording as on the Alternate Blue! And for sure you could sing it as any gender to any gender as far as that goes... Bob NP: "Don't Go To Strangers", imagining how pretty this is gonna sound live... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:56:25 EDT From: BMBSPIRIT@cs.com Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #262 It seems that there are a lot of new intros arriving on this list and thats wonderful . I feel that I am an old timer at three weeks. In that short period, I have had some bad karma from PAULIV ( no offense ), a nice welcome from a few (Paul C), support from a few more, (thank you Catherine)and an invite for drinks ( See you the 22nd in NYC Alisone)and I am not as big a fan as all of you. Joni was a huge part of my younger life and when the road gets a little bumpy, she is part of the therapy that smooths things out.So is Nanci Griffith, Dave Matthews, John Prine, Steve Goodman, Iris Dement,Tom Paxton, Sandy Denny, Van Morrison, Judy Collins, Louis Armstrong, Shawn Colvin, YoYoMa, Donovan, Dylan, Sean Tyrell, Eric Clapton,Nina Simone, Annie Lennox, and a myriad of others. Nonetheless, when I get home from work,(where nobody listens to any of this music) I immediately check my e-mail to see what you all have been up to in the past 24 hours. That's my tribute to the page. P.S. The four margaritas at El Charro have helped to loosen the tongue. Good night, Bernie ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 22:59:14 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Yet another Joni mention on Rosie I believe John Stamos is married to a different Rebecca- Rebecca Romaijn Stamos. (SP?) She's the blonde falling forward, out of her red spangled dress at the Tribute. (Not that I'm complaining.) Lamdoo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:01:36 EDT From: Seanapper@aol.com Subject: Concord show Thanks to all who posted their reviews of the Concord show. Unfortunately I hadn't had the time to read the digests very consistently before the show, so I didn't go to any JMDL get-togethers that might have taken place. I kept my eyes peeled for anyone wearing a JMDL T-shirt, but didn't see any (they were probably hidden beneath jackets, as it was pretty chilly). But I did get to HEAR one list member: "Did you guys hear me holler 'You've Changed' (her outfit) when she came back for the 2nd half of the show??" I DID hear that, RandyRemote! Our seats were excellent: row H, just to the right of center, and NOT under the bird-pooping area. Unlike when I saw her in concert two years ago, this audience was there just for Joni (not for Dylan or Morrison), so pretty much everyone was politely spellbound throughout the show. Joni, of course, was Fab-U-Lous. The concert has been very well described by others, and I don't have anything new to add to it other than a few of my perceptions: The entire evening, at times, seemed dreamlike to me. Throughout the show, fog machines pumped out smoke-like clouds over the back of the stage (I assume it was to invoke impressions of a smoky lounge). But the Concord Pavilion is an open-air venue and it was quite breezy that night, so the smoke clouds rushed and danced around the sides and back of the stage. At one point (I don't remember during which song), the smoke clouds swept up both sides of the stage and swirled down behind Joni. Seeing and hearing Joni brightly lit, swaying in a huge spiraling tunnel of smoke, I suddenly felt like I was on drugs (good ones, but I had only had a glass of wine). At intermission I went up to the concessions area and met someone who said he met Joni back in the 60s before she began recording. He was a waiter at the time and recalled her wearing an orange miniskirt and black stockings. What also was dreamlike was the trip back to SF. On the shuttle back to the BART station I listened to snippets of conversation between the other riders. Hearing Joni lyrics quoted here, Joni history lessons there, Joni this, Joni that, throughout the bus was the oddest experience! It was a very enjoyable weekend: good friends, one of my favorite cities, and, of course, the Goddess. It doesn't get any better than that! Neil in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 23:10:26 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going.....to W.Palm In a message dated 5/17/00 7:59:48 PM US Central Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << If I could have a Joni wish, I would wish to be transported back to those early days seeing her just starting out along with Pat Henry and a few lucky others here. >> Forget about the covers, our next JMDL project should be a TIME MACHINE!! :-) Can you imagine? What if we did and were back in those little clubs watching her get started? What would we tell her? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:09:00 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Urge for Going Controversy Bob wrote: > Cool, Mark - I didn't know that, I assumed it was the same >recording as on the Alternate Blue! And for sure you could >sing it as any gender to any gender as far as that goes... On my version of Alternate Blue, she sings "had me a man". Also checked my complete Second Frets and it is "had a man". However, Joni's recording on the Alternate Blue sounds different than the version on "Hits". I long ago lost my "Hits" liner notes but I recall there was some history of the recording there. My "Hits" cassette is buried in my car but maybe I'll dig it out and listen to see if the Alternate Blue UFG is a alternate take, so to speak. I'm sure Maurice knows! Kakki NP: TNT Joni Tribute - Help Me (Oh my.. this IS an incredible recording - thanks to Scott and Steve Polifka and, I assume, our Chairman of DATs ;-D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 May 2000 20:20:53 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Concord show Neil wrote: >The entire evening, at times, seemed dreamlike to me. It was exactly like that for me, too! > On the shuttle back to the BART station I listened to snippets of conversation between the other riders. Hearing Joni lyrics quoted here, Joni history lessons there, Joni > this, Joni that, throughout the bus was the oddest experience! Everywhere I turned at work this week people were coming up to me asking how the show went. My assistant, who I converted 2 years ago, had Blue in the CD player all week, another assistant, who didn't convert until he saw the TNT Tribute, is begging me for tapes, and I learned that a woman in the word processing department has been into Joni since the beginning and speaks of her with reverence (she's begging for tapes, too!). I feel like the new Tape Branch Leader for my law firm! Kakki NP: Tribute - Thompson on Black Crow ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #194 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at ------- Siquomb, isn't she?