From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #171 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, May 3 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 171 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: a new member of the list! [Marian ] Re: joni content in today' nytimes [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: a new member of the list! [catman ] Re: a new member of the list! [Deb Messling ] Re: a new member of the list! ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Teens for Joni! ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Joni mention on the radio (VLJC) [Loren Carter ] Nice Judds! ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Approach to catalog- Was: Book Recommendations? ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamad] Tribute show [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Joni mention on the radio (VLJC) [Guitarpoint@aol.com] Judy and the Clintons [Jerry Notaro ] Re: a new member of the list! [Catherine McKay ] RE: Nice Judds! ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] Re: Nice Judds! [Don Rowe ] Re: a new member of the list! [Don Rowe ] Re: Nice Judds! ["Alison Einerson" ] Urge for controversy [Les Irvin ] Re: a new member of the list! ["James L. Leonard" ] RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) ["Garret" ] WELCOME! [Anne Sandstrom ] Thinking Ahead? ["Paul Castle" ] Camden tickets? [Jim and/or Jay ] Re: Urge for controversy [susan+rick ] Re: a new member of the list! (SJC) ["Sara *" ] RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) [Catherine McKay ] flashlights etc ["Kate Bennett" ] Urge for controversy ["Bob Muller (Perception)" ] "mitchell" ["Ada Wittenberger" ] Re: Unreleased songs [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: Book Recommendations ["Alan Lorimer" ] This Just IN!!!!!!! ["Michael Paz" ] CSNY and guilty pleasures ["kerry" ] Re: New Member ["Madell S" ] sF cONCERT [KJHSF@aol.com] Speakeasy rerun and an apology [susan+rick ] Re: "mitchell" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Welcome Sara [leslie@torchsongs.com] Re: Unreleased songs [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures [IVPAUL42@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 09:22:35 +0200 From: Marian Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Dear Sara - I really enjoyed reading your post. Yes, I think you will fit in here just fine! Welcome! What is your favorite Joni song? How did you find Joni? Do you have a favorite album? Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 06:20:02 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: joni content in today' nytimes Pardon me if this has been said before: the TIMES mention was in Margo Jefferson's column, wasn't it? I think I remember her talking about JM, Ute Lemper and Audra MacDonald. I think Tuesday's NY DAILY NEWS also had a picture of JM and an item about how well recent albums by artists in their 50s were doing. I think it cited sales of BSN which were already within 27,000 of the sales of TTT, "which tanked." doing some thinking, DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:28:44 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: a new member of the list! While I know teens like me are highly out-numbered, there > are a few teens out there that are listening to Joni (and others - some of > my other favorites are Joplin and Dylan). (Joni is the best!) :) Yup, as > you might figure, I do get picked on because of my love for music that is > not popular for people my age, Hi sara and welcome. When I was a teen, I was exactly the same-didn't like the pop stuff. I still basically like the sem sort of music as I did back then. Your age won't matter. There are many even younger than you on this list! ;-) bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 06:37:06 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Welcome, Sara! I'm always happy to hear that younger people are into Joni. I'm 44, and I was picked on in high school for my musical tastes, too. Even then, Joni was a minority taste. My peers at the time were into Led Zep and other hard rock. And this was in an artsy Quaker school, go figure. At 10:30 PM 5/2/00 -0600, you wrote: >you might figure, I do get picked on because of my love for music that is >not popular for people my age, Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 23:00:37 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Sara wrote: >I do get picked on because of my love for music that is >not popular for people my age, but it's just so much more passionate and >'deep' than the bubble-gum pop music of Britney Spears. So, I have decided >that I will fit in with the list just fine - after all, it's not age that >matters, it's my love for Joni! Welcome to the list, Sara! And don't worry about being picked on for your taste in music. I was getting picked on at the age of 12 for liking Carole King, instead of Abba, and it's continued ever since! I'm still getting picked on now, for liking Joni instead of the current "popular" music - and I'm 33! I figure I'll be getting picked on for a lot more years to come, and you know what? I don't care! Because you said it best yourself - it's not age that matters, it's the love for Joni! And Marian has already asked, but I'll ask as well - what's your favourite song/album, and how did you get into Joni? We all want to know! Hell (formally known as Helen!) _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:07:05 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Teens for Joni! <So, I have decided that I will fit in with the list just fine - after all, it's not age that matters, it's my love for Joni! >> Right on, Sara, and welcome to the bunch! You have much wisdom beyond your years...on the other side of the coin, I went with my 13-year old to see Creed last night and enjoyed it a lot, even though I'm sure everyone in the audience thought I was a narc! So, at 42, I'm not too old to bang my head and you're not too young to appreciate the greatest composer of our generation! I hope you'll speak up - there aren't a lot of vocal teenagers here and y'all bring an interesting perspective to things. Bob NP: XTC, "All of a Sudden" (It's Too Late) ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 00 08:28:41 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Joni mention on the radio (VLJC) All, This morning during my commute to work I was listening to the radio, OK it was the Howard Stern show. He was ragging on a new album by Kathie Lee Gifford. Apparently Kathie Lee covers The Circle Game, and Howard, commenting about that cover said "She'll (Kathie Lee) ruin it too, Joni Mitchell is brilliant." Sure surprised me to hear him say that. Loren.... NP...nothing but the humming of the A/C and the taping of keyboard keys. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:34:17 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Nice Judds! Howard said: <> Howard, I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that their story is totally true; that's what connects us to Joni's music after all, the emotional images and the memories we associate with the songs - why do you think they would make it up? When Wynonna (who I have a newfound respect for) says "Joni, I've loved you since I was 10 years old and I can't believe I'm here", it gets me every time. These people sincerely love Joni's art and there was no possible reason for them to fabricate, embellish, or can anything, regardless of their name change. Bob NP: XTC, "Down In the Cockpit" (Apple Venus Volume 2 out this month!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:52:14 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: Approach to catalog- Was: Book Recommendations? Hi Laura, You get to decide for yourself on this question. If you really like the Joni-with-6-string-guitar period, go for the earlier albums first. If the hints at jazz on Miles Of Aisles sound more interesting, go for the later albums next. But honestly, since you already have an introduction to Joni, I like the idea of starting with "Song To A Seagull" and working your way through the catalog! Welcome to the Discussion List. I hope you find a home here. Laura asked: Does it make sense to buy the albums in the order they were recorded, or are some worth hearing before others? All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati, Ohio, USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:42:45 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Tribute show Totally unexpectedly I received an audio tape of the tribute show from a kind Joni fan. I'd be happy to make copies for fellow Joni starved europeans. I haven't had time to play it yet. Can't wait. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:51:43 EDT From: Guitarpoint@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni mention on the radio (VLJC) << OK It was Howard Stern>> Why are you making apologies for listening to Stern? I've been listening for years and it's obvious that he likes her. Her makes comments all the time that show knowledge and like of her. He made some hilarious comment when the were talking about he tribute show. Did you catch that? Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:01:16 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Judy and the Clintons I won't stoop to Paul's level of name calling and negativity, but just to show I'm not a Nixonian trying to make up stories about Chelsea Morning at the time of the Clinton Inauguration, here is the story from The New York Times: The New York Times January 19, 1993, Tuesday, Late Edition - Final SECTION: Section A; Page 15; Column 1; National Desk LENGTH: 224 words HEADLINE: THE INAUGURATION; Shedding Light On a Morning And a Name BODY: It started with a hotel: the Chelsea Hotel in New York City, where Joni Mitchell was staying and, one bright morning, felt as if "the sun poured in like butterscotch and stuck to all my senses." Those impressions inspired "Chelsea Morning," the song that gave Chelsea Clinton her name. But to Chelsea's parents, "Chelsea Morning" is a Judy Collins song. The Collins version came out in the summer of 1969 as a single, and was a modest hit. It had also appeared a few months earlier on Ms. Mitchell's second album, "Clouds." Thus began a controversy that played a role in the Clinton campaign similar to Socks the Cat's run-in with photographers. In the late 1960's, Ms. Collins was the bigger star. There was still a gap between popularizers or interpreters, like Ms. Collins, and the songwriters, like Ms. Mitchell, who were known mainly to more dedicated fans. Ms. Collins already had a Top 10 hit with another Mitchell song, "Both Sides Now," which she introduced in 1967, two years before Ms. Mitchell's version appeared on "Clouds." Later, Ms. Mitchell's versions of her songs would reach the radio. So to Bill and Hillary Clinton, "Chelsea Morning" may remain the work of Judy Collins, who is among the performers participating in the inaugural week's events. But to rock fans with hindsight, Joni Mitchell gets the credit. Jerry Librarians are the secret masters of the world. They control information. Don't ever piss one off. - --Spider Robinson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:06:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: Re: a new member of the list! - --- Bounced Message wrote: > From: "Sara *" > Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 19:32:22 EDT > > Hi!~ > My name is Sara, and I have been lurking around > the list for a few > months now. However, I have been very reluctant to > post in the past because > I didn't know if I would fit in well with the list - > mainly because of my > age. I'm 14 (I'll be 15 in about a week). But as I > was reading some of the > latest posts about teenagers and the music that they > listen to (Britney > Spears, Backstreet Boys, etc.), I decided that it > was time for me to finally > post a message. Welcome to the list, Sara! If all of us weirdos fit in, then you most certainly do! I have a Sarah (with an h) of my own - she's 13 and unfortunately doesn't as yet appreciate Joni's music. I'm hoping one day she will and trying like crazy not to force it down her throat (somebody stop me!) ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:08:54 -0500 From: Howard Motyl Subject: Re: Nice Judds! "Bob Muller (Perception)" wrote: > Howard said: > < Ashley and Wynonna (by the way, not their real names--the PR machine > running again) did all those things to Joni's songs that they said they > did. I didn't believe it for a minute. In the barn with flashlights. > Talk about canned. >> > > Howard, I have NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER that their story is totally true; that's > what connects us to Joni's music after all, the emotional images and the > memories we associate with the songs - why do you think they would make it > up? > When Wynonna (who I have a newfound respect for) says "Joni, I've loved you > since I was 10 years old and I can't believe I'm here", it gets me every I believed Wynonna when she said this. Because it was straightforward and real. > > time. These people sincerely love Joni's art and there was no possible > reason for them to fabricate, embellish, or can anything, regardless of > their name change. The overblown stuff that Ashley kept talking about struck me as false and exaggerated. And when Ashley went on at one point (feverishly reading the prompter, I might add--how's that for spontanaeity!) using all kinds of polysyllabic words thrown into a sentence that I had to stop and think about just to make sense of the syntax, let alone the content. I've only watched the show once but I know that her praise (that bordered on embarrassing) was toward the end of the show. Anyway, I shouldn't be talking about it without knowing exactly what she said. On the other hand, I am in the bizness and know how much of this banter is written by other people and said by the glamourpusses or more famous. I don't doubt that the Judd girls liked, even loved, Joni--I just think some of the things they supposedly did while listening to her music seemed a bit far-fetched and/or exaggerated. And the reason why they were embellished or exaggerated is simple--they were on TV. It sounds better to say they were singing songs in the barn with flashlights (even here, I thought they lived in a city, Naomi was a nurse, I thought) than to simply say Wow, we like you. Howard M. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 11:20:27 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: RE: Nice Judds! <> She said her scripted stuff at the beginning of the show, yes, I'm sure it WAS scripted and she WAS reading it - doesn't mean that what she was saying was false or not heartfelt...when she said her "me too" comments after Shawn Colvin's praising remark, it was just as genuine imo... Seems like Joni's fans can't win - if they make the effort to record their comments for inclusion, they're berated for not being there in person (Hillary), and if they show up and deliver a prepared monologue, it's STILL not good enough! I don't think improvisation is the strong suit for most of these performers, which is yet another reason Richard Thompson gets such high marks for filling in with Woodstock for Stone Temple Pilots... I'll say it again - this show was a total joy to watch and listen to, every nanosecond of it! << Anyway, I shouldn't be talking about it without knowing exactly what she said.>> I don't think this is an issue; I think maybe because you're in the biz you're jaded about it. From this fan's perspective, the show was a total treat. Of course, you are just as welcome to your opinions as well... Bob NP: XTC, "Travels in Nihilon" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:31:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Nice Judds! Oh aren't we so tragically hip! I mean really, everybody knows celebrities are grown in a bio-engineering lab secured in a concrete bunker built 40 stories under Devil's Tower. Somehow, this thread seems headed in this kind of direction ... How easily we forget that as late as 1976, modern cosmopoli like Dallas, speaking from personal experience, were completely provincial, conservative backwaters before the Manhattan Diaspora. I mean, Tom Leherer records were banned as late as that -- no kidding -- you had to be connected to find them. And there's some pretty racy stuff on Joni albums, as we've all been free to point out. So the idea that Mama Judd might not have wanted her daughters hearing things like "I gave him my warm body", "hanging on your boom-boom pachyderm" -- in the rural South, isn't preposterous in the least. Why should we doubt that the girls had to listen to them in secret? Oh that's right, because they're famous now. I guess in the end, we of the jmdl should have been the ones putting together the tribute, and featured as performers. Of course, that would bring up the whole ratings issue ... or lack thereof. You see, I'm a little cynical myself -- just not so completely, I guess. Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:06:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Welcome Sara! So good to hear you're bucking the trend. Janis too, huh? Bold, very bold -- I'm impressed, as I am equally by your eloquence. Don't worry, though I suspect you may be the youngest lister (the previous record being 17, if memory serves), I'm sure you'll make a welcome addition. I for one, will look forward to hearing more from you! Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:20:45 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Nice Judds! - ---------- >From: Howard Motyl >On the other hand, I am in the bizness and know how much of this banter is >written by other people and said by the glamourpusses or more famous. I don't >doubt that the Judd girls liked, even loved, Joni--I just think some of the >things they supposedly did while listening to her music seemed a bit >far-fetched and/or exaggerated. i remember sitting on my mom's bed and listening to her play "little green" on the guitar. i was pretty young, i don't remember how, but it was so beautiful and moving that i started crying. i was embarrased, so i faked it like i fell off the bed so that i could say that i was crying because i hit my head. true story. now, if i get famous someday, and go on tv to tell that story, will you believe me howard? alison e. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 11:20:35 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Urge for controversy Joniphiles - Long time listers may remember the brief appearance a few years ago of a woman who delurked and innocently proclaimed that "her father wrote the song 'Urge For Going' and sold it to Joni". Needless to say, she was met with considerable derision and never posted again. I've often thought about her claim and wondered. Urge for Going has always seemed to me to be an "odd" Joni song. The chord structure and the melodic flow seem to be unlike anything else she was doing at the time. Certainly, it wasn't uncommon to "lift" melodies from other sources - I'm probably wrong, but I don't think Dylan wrote an original melody until 1964. On the other hand, why would Joni be "purchasing" a song at a time when her creativity was overflowing? The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. Could be that Joni just fell in love with the song and "had to have it". Or, could be that this woman's father is full of crap and the song is indeed 100% Joni's. Thoughts anyone? Pat... Cul... you were both there during that time, no? Any insight? Les - who saved up his paper route money to buy each new Monkees album that came out and still likes to listen to "Headquarters" and "Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, and Jones"... NP: Cat Power ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:27:16 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: a new member of the list! Hi, Sara. I'm new to the list myself, and wanted to join in with everyone else to extend a hearty welcome. The people here have all been very kind to me in the few weeks I've been aboard, and I know you'll also find that to be true. I've seen several folks ask you how you learned of Joni, which is your favorite album or song, and such. Please take the time to write us a nice, long history of your musical journey, particularly as it involves Joni. We'd all enjoy reading it. Which artists did you listen to most before discovering Joni? Don't be embarrassed to say. We've all had our own meandering musical journeys...many, as you can see, involving the Monkees! :-) "Boston Jim" NP: "Mood Indigo," Dr. John ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:43:45 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) Hey Sara, welcome ot the list, it's great to have you aboard!! it's great to hear from someone younger than me!! i'm nineteen years of age myself, when i was fifteen i was listening to Paul Simon (sometimes wiht Art Garfunkel) and motown music. i understand what you're saying about peoples reaction to your taste in music. In fact, recetnly, while listening to Comes Love from BSN my own mother laughed at me "you're gettign worse" she said. " these songs are around longer than me!!" when i was at school everyone knew that my taste in music wasn't quite Lauren Hill, Busta Rhymes, or Oasis because my friend and i had a radio show on a community station. iwas in an all boys school and social standing was, for most, about conformity and being on the inside of the most popular cliques; so it was strange for anyone to express an interest in anything other than the popularly accepted, and this included musical taste. mainstream rap, hip-hop, and britpop (including Travis, as it happens) were the most favoured tastes in music(for the known conformers, hehe), along with a little "classic rock"- the beatles, fleetwood mac, the doors. those that enjoyed Korn and Marilyn Manson were thought strange. those that liked (and they did indeed exist) Celine Dion, Mariah, and Britney (eh, her music that is) were laughed at. then there was me. i was the lad that would vandalise the desk not with "GAR WUZ ERE" but with "we are stardust, we are golden". it was strange, over the years it reached a point where i was considered an expert on "strange" yet generally reputable music (my year actually included a lot of musically sound people, and a few bands emerged by the end of sixth year). people often asked me what did i think of such and such's new song, or had i ever heard of Buffy Sante-Marieee (?!?) Joni was one of the hardest to explain. "is she liek BobDylan?", or "who?" were common questions. i always consoled myself wiht the fact that some of these people have been desensitised to good (yet challenging) music by years of easy to hear/no thought involved songs o the radio. forgive me Sara, if i have made no point here and if my writing is awfully ineloquent:-) i've been studying for my tests which start on friday and i am utterly unprepared! Hope ot hear much more from you on the list!! GARRET NP- Patti Smith, Land ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:42:07 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: WELCOME! Hi Sara. Welcome, welcome, welcome! I was 14 when I discovered Joni's music. (OK, so that was a LONG time ago.) May I complement you on your impeccable musical taste! I hope you enjoy the list and the web sites. And NEVER be bashful about posting. I certainly would love to hear more from you! lots of love Anne ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 19:18:12 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: Thinking Ahead? Here's a thought for the future... well, tomorrow, really. "May the 4th be with you." PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 14:39:12 -0400 From: Jim and/or Jay Subject: Camden tickets? I'm forwarding this for a friend who's trying to help another friend: "My friend Betsy has two tickets to Joni's BSN Concert on June 2 in Camden that she cannot use. She is looking to sell them. You can contact her by Email at betsyandrews@yahoo.com" Here's another Ticketmaster nightmare for the archives: I bought mine by phone for the Boston show four days after they went on sale. I went for "best tickets available". They arrived last week and are almost in the very last row of the concert space. I just can't believe that was the "best" they could do. I'm determined not to let that spoil this upcoming Joni experience but I need to work through my anger first. D.J. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 12:13:40 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Re: Urge for controversy Les Irvin posted: > Joniphiles - > Long time listers may remember the brief appearance a few years ago of a > woman who delurked and innocently proclaimed that "her father wrote the > song 'Urge For Going' and sold it to Joni". Needless to say, she was met > with considerable derision and never posted again. [snip] > Thoughts anyone? Pat... Cul... you were both there during that time, > no? Any insight? Is the original post still available in the archives somewhere? I've always thought of UFG as the quintessential Canadian song, right up there with Four Strong Winds. The images of winter and "geese in chevron flight" and "locking the vagrant winter out" are so vivid in my experience and memory that of all JONI's songs this is the one that is guaranteed to give me goose bumps and get me all misty. I have never found it to be that distinct from her other work that it would stand out as being written by someone else. Yes it is in standard tuning but the chord formations are very typical of Joni. In many of the early concerts I attended, Joni told of writing UFG about the bleakness sometimes felt in a long cold prairie winter. (Check out the Second Fret Sets). When she did perform other people's material she never hesitated to acknowledge them (Get Together by Dino Valenti was a regular in early concerts). Could it be that she was so caught up in the glow of recognition that no doubt came from having people like Tom Rush perform her music that, once everyone believed that UFG was her own, she was unable to tell the truth? Somehow, given Joni's history of supporting new performers (e.g. Jackson Browne) and freely talking about influences in her life I find it hard to believe that she would "buy" a song and then claim it entirely. As far as borrowing (what the the folk process is all about) it's apparent that Joni even borrowed from herself, keeping chord and picking patterns but rejecting words, or putting old phrases to new melodies. Pieces of many of her rejected songs show up in her other works. (Compare Hunter the Good Samaritan to This Flight Tonight-Why waste a good guitar part?) Could Joni have heard someone perform something like UFG and borrowed parts of it unconsciously or otherwise? Yeah maybe, but a slim maybe, given that her writing at the time was so unique. The poetry of Urge For Going is so perfectly Joni and so unlike anything I can remember from that era. When you compare it to Circle Game you find much the same folky structure (verses with a repeated chorus) that is not typical of most of her work but can perhaps be attributed to someone just emerging from the "folk" environment. My final verdict: Indisputably Joni. Great topic, Les All good things Rick, home with laryngitis, full of medication, and thus free to sit and ramble somewhat incoherently at the keyboard. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:41:34 EDT From: "Sara *" Subject: Re: a new member of the list! (SJC) Hi everyone!~ Thank you SO MUCH for all of the kind replies to my message. It makes me feel really great just to know that I've finally found someplace where I know my love for Joni will always be accepted and embraced. So, people have been asking about my past musical history, so here it goes . . . . . The first music I remember listening to (at about the age of 4 or 5) was 50's music - mainly doo wop and things like that. I don't exactly know why I started listening to this music, but I have an idea that my parents had something to do with it. *smirk* Basically, that was all I listened to until about age 9. I then went through a VERY BRIEF period when I loved everything country, but it was only a phase that probably didn't last any longer than a year. At age 10 I began playing saxophone and immediately fell in love with it. I'm still playing today, and it's one of my favorite things to do! At about age 11 I joined jazz band and found an interest in playing jazz. This was about the same time that I discovered Joni. My sister (a drummer, guitarist, vocalist, pianist, and lover of ALL music) was listening to a Joni album (I can't remember which one), and I immediately fell in love. I started saving my money so I could buy more and more Joni albums, and my love for Joni grew each time I bought a new one. As for a favorite Joni song or album, I don't think I can pick one. I love them ALL!!!! Sara >From: "James L. Leonard" >Reply-To: "James L. Leonard" >To: "Joni List" >Subject: Re: a new member of the list! >Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 13:27:16 -0700 > >Hi, Sara. > >I'm new to the list myself, and wanted to join in with everyone else to >extend a hearty welcome. > >The people here have all been very kind to me in the few weeks I've been >aboard, and I know you'll also find that to be true. > >I've seen several folks ask you how you learned of Joni, which is your >favorite album or song, and such. Please take the time to write us a nice, >long history of your musical journey, particularly as it involves Joni. >We'd >all enjoy reading it. > >Which artists did you listen to most before discovering Joni? Don't be >embarrassed to say. We've all had our own meandering musical >journeys...many, as you can see, involving the Monkees! :-) > >"Boston Jim" > >NP: "Mood Indigo," Dr. John > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:36:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Catherine McKay Subject: RE:a new member of the list! (SJC) - --- Garret wrote: > Hey Sara, > welcome ot the list, it's great to have you aboard!! > it's great to hear > from someone younger than me!! i'm nineteen years > of age myself, when i was > fifteen i was listening to Paul Simon (sometimes > wiht Art Garfunkel) and > motown music. > i understand what you're saying about peoples > reaction to your taste in > music. Of course, you realize that, although right now you may be considered, well, a little "odd" by your friends and family, if you wait, oh, 20 to 40 years or thereabouts, people will suddenly start thinking you're just too cool for words, and all those schoolmates of yours who diss you now, will be clamouring to be remembered as your best friend "way back when". Or maybe they'll honour you at some TV show where a whole bunch of famous people will show up (some well-dressed, some in rags) gushing and oozing overly wonderful things about you, while the rest of us, your *real* friends ;) out here will get all jealous and catty about being left out of the action... Tongue planted so firmly in cheek, I may have bitten part of it off (ouch!)... ===== Catherine (in Toronto) catrin_of_aragon@yahoo.ca _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:59:57 -0600 From: Les Irvin Subject: Re: Urge for controversy At 01:13 PM 5/3/2000, susan+rick wrote: >I have never found it to be that distinct from her other work that it would >stand out as being written by someone else. Yes it is in standard tuning but >the chord formations are very typical of Joni. I agree that most of the song could be structurally compared to Joni's other work at the time. However, the chord structure and melody during this passage: "When the sun turns traitor cold And all the trees are shivering in a naked row" seem odd, almost clumsy to me. It just doesn't seem to "flow" like the rest of Joni's work does. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much! Les NP: Bill Frisell ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:05:22 -0700 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: flashlights etc "I just think some of the things they supposedly did while listening to her music seemed a bit far-fetched and/or exaggerated." This is a very typical thing for young sisters to do,barn or no barn-especially if the oldest is an aspiring musician. Some of used hairbrushes, though. Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:11:15 -0400 From: "Bob Muller (Perception)" Subject: Urge for controversy <<"When the sun turns traitor cold And all the trees are shivering in a naked row" seem odd, almost clumsy to me. It just doesn't seem to "flow" like the rest of Joni's work does. Maybe I'm analyzing it too much! >> But IMO, the lyrics you've quoted, along with "bolt my wandering in", are quintessential Joni. Plus, I would think she'd make that part of the story she'd tell about the song..."this next one is one that I liked so much I bought it from its writer"...like Rick said, she seems so insistent on giving credit where credit is due, the story of her buying it (and not fessing up) just doesn't ring true. But all *I* can do is speculate - I too would be anxious to hear from Pat and the others that 'knew her when'.... Bob NP: Yes, "Close To the Edge, Pt. I, The Solid Time of Change" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 21:22:34 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: "mitchell" hi and shalom everyone! there's a young singer in israel named mika karni. she's the only artist in israel that i have ever heard saying that joni is her first class muse. here in israel, well folks, you can't even imagine...the best music stores at the 3 largest cities, keep "blue" and "blue" only, and even "blue", as i'm told by them stores owners, is not sold. do you think that anyone here has the slightest idea about joni? the hell they do. all israeli freeks are mad about dylan - but joni? sorry? what was that name again? anyway, mika came out of the closet, and has done a wonderfull thing - on her debut, the first single was called "mitchell". she told the press about her admiration for joni, and said that she nick named her ex-lover "mitchell". them press bimbos were very much intersted about "mitchell" the ex-lover, but joni? sorry? what was that name again? so, i thought it would be nice to let you know, and i've done my best to translate the song to english, and do forgive me for my wrong spelling -ay em nought ammerikun:) so, here's "mitchell" by mika karni, and you know what? this song has made her a star in israel. mitchell - -------- 3.30 me and mitchell waiting at the station 158 do'nt come this he's called (i think) haim, listens in understanding, pushes on the button, yells, mitchell sweats 3.40 sitting down passing over all the lists haim (so i imagine) losses interest 158 is surely sleeping like a baby mitchell and i are sitting far too close to eachother no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow, no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me i'm i'm i'm 'i'm i'm... it's already something.30, a little clock, too little, and haim takes a filter for sucking mitchell has long ago taken his hands out of the pockets 158 - he do'nt come, do'nt come someone says in the okee-tokee that they saw him parking at "prophets street" sending a taxi to bat-yam to search, mitchell and i are long ago not dealing in talking haim open his mouthe only to yawn no one do'nt come, and it's already late and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow no one do'nt come, and it's already late, and as for me i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm... i'm not coming and it's already late and as for me it's me and mitchell 'till tomorow no one do'nt come, and it's already late and as for me i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm i'm... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 17:29:55 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: Unreleased songs In a message dated 5/3/00 1:24:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. >> There have been what-hundreds? of Joni songs that remain unreleased?Does anyone know why these songs were not released in the late 1960's?Why didn't Joni relsase these songs on more albums? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 07:31:37 +1000 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: Re: Book Recommendations Laura said: >My next question would be, where should a semi-newbie >start in terms of Joni's music? I think the most important thing is not which album to buy next, but when to buy them. Joni's music really takes a lot time to absorb. I would recommend only buying one album at a time and waiting a month or two between buying albums. The other recommendation that I would make is to pick albums that fill different areas of Joni's music. My recommendations would be: Hissing Of Summer Lawns - which must be one of Joni's best albums Turbulent Indigo - A great introduction to Joni's later work (post Jazz) Court & Spark - Am I allowed to say an "Easy to listen to Album?" You can then start filling in the "gaps". Hejira is another excellent ablum which follows on from HOSL and contiunes towards Jazz. Night Ride Home is another excellent example of her later work. Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 16:38:06 -0500 From: "Michael Paz" Subject: This Just IN!!!!!!! Hello Lists- I now have two companies that have agreed to do the webcast of JoniFest from New Orleans. I hope to finalize with one of the two companies next week after Jazz Fest. It looks like everyone who is not coming and not in Boston can watch the 4 hour live telecast. WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!!! **********************************ALSO VERY IMPORTANT******************************** If you have NOT made reservations at the Holiday Inn Select, but want to, please do so by friday at the latest. We are trying to finalize all the plans with them and they extended the period allotted to me by 5 days. ALSO, if you made reservations and ARE NOT coming, please cancel them so they do not charge you for these rooms. I have a couple more cool surprises that I am not willing to divulge yet, but SOON. Also a few items of note. Sting played a great set at the fest on Sunday. I hung out with my friend Scott Crago (who plays drums with the Eagles) and his friends from LA and had a great time. He is probably coming back this weekend to hang some more cause he had so much fun here. He was blown away by (drummer) Russell Batiste with the Funky Meters and George Porters Runnin Partners and also by Fred LeBlanc with Cowboy Mouth. As usual Fred was climbing his way into peoples hearts by climbing to the top of the tent covering the stage (about 60 feet) and sitting at the top with his feet propped up on the Alligator decor up there, meanwhile singing and preaching his ASS off. ARE YOU WITH ME HERE? I also managed to catch Zawinul Project, Chick Corea and Gary Burton, Continental Drifters, and so much more at the site. I am doing a web cast video shoot for Michael Murphy Productions, Acura, and www.riffage.com. You will be able to catch alot of the performances that we are taping online in July in a 7 day mini Jazz Fest sort of thing that sounds like it's gonna be real cool. One of those performances will be this weekends performance by Diana Krall (ANOTHER WHOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO). Last night Kevin and I went out with some friends to hear Shannon Curfman play at the House of Blues and she was totally amazing. This kid is really going places. She did a great version of Tell Me Something Good by Rufus. We then went to hear my friend Beth Patterson (who will be singing Ladies of the Canyon accompanied by her own Bazouki) at JoniFest2000 New Orleans. David Lahm will be in New Orleans next week for rehearsals and I am loking forward to meeting him and spending time with this wonderful friend and musician. I am sorry I am not at all current with the list so please email me privatly if I am missing anything. I only have time to do the short emails and I will catch up with the 12 or so digests I am behind. Have a great weekend everone and I will be thinking of all you. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:04:19 -0500 From: "kerry" Subject: CSNY and guilty pleasures I just got back from a trip to Key West, FL and would recommend it to anyone! It was fantastic and quite the gay mecca. Before I left I got to see CSN&Y in concert! Did anyone else see their show? I couldn't believe how great it was. I was surprised when the paper said the show was 31/2 hours long. It seemed to fly by. I'm starting to really get into Neil Young's music. Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. I've been skimming through the posts (a big job after only one week!) and just have to add my profound thoughts. The only thing that bothered me was the subject heading: "bad music." Who's to say what's bad or good music? Like any art, it is so subjective. Reviews and award shows make me crazy. If an artist touches the soul of someone, then there is something good to be found!! (Unless, it's Celine Dion) (Just kidding!!!!!) Also, how many of us have guilty pleasures and don't admit them? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 23:49:00 GMT From: "Madell S" Subject: Re: New Member Hi Sara! I too have joined the list in the past few months and have been lurking around-pretty much for the same reason as yours. I'm 17 and it's intimidating to post to a list of mainly adults who have been listening to Joni for so many years and I'm just starting out. But I guess I am relieved that there is another young person out there I can talk to! Well I guess I should introduce myself and say that the first time I heard Joni was when I heard Amy Grant's cover of "BYT" and I remember being so struck by the line- "Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got Till it's gone" And I remember writing this short story in my fifth grade class sort of based on that line. So that was my first encounter of Joni and I guess my next would be when I bought the Indigo Girl's 1200 Curfews and there is a cover of "River" on there. I fell in love with the song and shortly after that I bought the "Hits" CD and I now have added "Blue" "Taming the Tiger" and "Both Sides Now" to my small Joni collection. I don't really have a particular favorite Joni song but I am slowly acquainting myself with her music. It's a great journey :-) As far as the "good" music vs "bad" music debate recently, I'd like to add my own two cents. I personally don't listen to today's pop music. Most of it is pretty shallow and it doesn't do much for me. Sure the Backstreet Boys and N Sync harmonize well and the beats are catchy, but that's about it. I'm bored listening to that music and I enjoy listening to music that has a bit more thought put into it and not music that is written to be a #1 hit. Most of my friends listen to Eminem or Kid Rock or Christina Agulera(sp?) and I never have criticized their taste in music or said it was bad, I just tell them that I don't care for it. In 10 or 15 years, will we still be listening to the Backstreet Boys or 98 Degrees? I doubt it. Are we still listening to New Kids on the Block today? No. That music is for the present day pre-teen and teen. Once they have grown up, their tastes in music change and the music that was targeted for them slowly goes away. Well, this post has been long enough and I guess I should end it now. I just wanted to post my opinion coming a young person who is in the "targeted pop music" age range. :-) Thanks for your time and I'm glad to be among such great people! Madeline ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 20:24:20 EDT From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: sF cONCERT I heard a rumour that there is talk of cancelling the SF concert because of poor sales, something like only 3,000 sold so far! Does anyone know about this? I will be heartbroken as I've never seen joni live and she is, of course, joni. UNfortunately, my access to a computer is no longer daily, but I'm anxiously awaiting any information. Oh God Please, NOOOOOOO Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 18:02:10 -0700 From: susan+rick Subject: Speakeasy rerun and an apology For any Canadian listers who may have missed it the first time, MuchMoreMusic is replaying their interview with Joni tonight May 3 at 700 pm and 1000 pm Pacific Daylight Savings Time. And please let me apologize to the OnlyJoni listers for forgetting the NJC on a few of my previous posts. Blame it on the cold medication. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:28:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "mitchell" In a message dated 5/3/00 5:24:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wittadi@hotmail.com writes: << all israeli freeks are mad about dylan - but joni? sorry? >> What about the late Steve Goodman? Now there was a nice Jewish boy who wrote some memorable songs. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 18:31:35 -0700 (PDT) From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: Welcome Sara Hi Sara: Welcome to the list! With such fine taste in music your future appears very bright. Did you know that Bob Dylan wrote a song called, "Sara"? You must be very excited about attending Joni's concert during your birthday month. I look forward to hearing more from you. Which album of Joni's did you hear first? Leslie Mixon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:34:44 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Unreleased songs In a message dated 5/3/00 5:34:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Relayer211@aol.com writes: << << The wealth of as-yet-unreleased songs she wrote during that period certainly sheds huge doubt on this claim. >> There have been what-hundreds? of Joni songs that remain unreleased?Does anyone know why these songs were not released in the late 1960's?Why didn't Joni relsase these songs on more albums? >> My guess is that she decided most of them weren't good enough for her standards. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 21:39:37 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: CSNY and guilty pleasures In a message dated 5/3/00 7:02:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, myrtlmoo@ticon.net writes: << Does anyone have any recommendations for good Neil CD's? I have his new one and I like it, but I also like his more "rockin'" stuff. >> "Everybody Knows This is Nowhere" -- Neil with Crazy Horse Paul I ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #171 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?