From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #164 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, April 28 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 164 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: JONI AND JAZZ ["James L. Leonard" ] Re: Covered in Cheese [FMYFL@aol.com] Joni Mithcell (VLJC) [Dmascall@aol.com] Re: Covered in Cheese [RSTM@aol.com] Joni on Leno [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Betty's "I Had A King" (VLJC) [FMYFL@aol.com] Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Sorry! I forgot to give times. [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Another cover [Steve Dulson ] Joni Sales ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) [Siresorrow@aol.co] Refereeing at AYSO Carpinteria Region 683 Tournament [RSTM@aol.com] k.d. lang, Sue M., and "Impossible Dreamer" ["Pitassi, Mary" ] Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) ["Alison Einerson"] Re: k.d. lang, Sue M., and "Impossible Dreamer" [MDESTE1@aol.com] Book Recommendations? [BrainEnvy@aol.com] OBTUSE JONI? [dave fairall / beth miller ] Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) [catman ] Re: "your music puts me to sleep" [Relayer211@aol.com] Re: [Maryland preconcert gathering] [Loren Carter ] Re: Record Biz 101 ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Joni Sales ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: BSN costs ["Brenda J. Walker" ] re: laura's question about joni books [pat holden ] re: Rosie's comment on falling asleep to BSN [pat holden ] Joni's Paintings in London [Gerald Heibert ] Re: "your music puts me to sleep" [Janet Hess ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 06:17:41 -0700 From: "James L. Leonard" Subject: Re: JONI AND JAZZ Hi, Dave. Thanks alot for writing. It wasn't until I saw your post that I remembered where I'd heard of Ethel Ennis. I *knew* I'd heard her name, but just couldn't place her. Then, when you mentioned Ethel's Place in Baltimore, I slapped my forehead with the palm of my hand and said, "Of course!" I never made it to Ethel's (or to Baltimore, yet, I'm sorry to say), but a good friend of mine lived in your city in the early and mid-'80s and used to rave about the club. I'm sure he must of caught one or more of your performances there. I'm sorry to learn the club is gone. Another great one, Bradley's (in NYC), closed a couple of years ago, too. "Don't it *always* seem to go..." Anyway, Ethel's version of "For Free" on the Joni Covers set is great...one of my Top 5 favorites. I'd like to hear a lot more of her, and will check to see what's available via Amazon, etc. Btw, one of my favorite vocalists/pianists, Shirly Horn, also lives in your neck of the woods...in D.C., I believe. I'll bet she and Ethel are friends. Did Shirley perform at Ethel's? I remember reading that she didn't/doesn't like to tour, but that, before her re-emergence on the national scene in the late-'80s and '90s, she would play out occasionally in and around D.C. Do you know Shirley? Have you sat in with her? I've heard she can be a bit "tempermental." But, man, nobody sings, or plays, a ballad like her! "Boston Jim" NP: Pat Metheny Trio 99 > 00 - "Giant Steps" (Coltrane) ----- Original Message ----- From: dave fairall / beth miller To: joni@smoe.org ; joni-digest@smoe.org ; Anyway@bellatlantic.net ; jll@tampabay.rr.com Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 4:41 PM Subject: JONI AND JAZZ {Anyway, I'm a "dyed in the wool" fan(atic). I also enjoy many other artists and many styles of music. For the past twenty-five years or so I've primarily devoted my listening hours to the study of jazz, but I don't neglect my other interests. :) "Boston Jim" (who moved to Tampa) NP: Ethel Ennis - "For Free"} Hey Jim, I to am a jazzbo, sax player, and share you sentiments about Shadows and Light. When that record came out I was thrilled, Jaco, Metheny, Brecker all on the same album playing true fusion music. Joni's output from that era defies categorization, as in my opinion Jaco's participation took the material to a place that had never existed, and won't again. It's easy to get lost in the jazz thing, and back in the day when I was shedding hours on end, Joni helped me connect to "music w/ words".... although what always attracted me, and still does. is the harmony and chordal voicings she employs. Glad you posted....and btw, Ethel's a Baltimorean as you may know, and used to have a great jazz club called Ethel's Place, where my wife worked, and I played on a regular basis. The good old daze...... DF Baltimore Md. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:14:10 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Covered in Cheese Stephen and Kakki wrote: << << And how about a separate box set "BSN for 365 days of the year?" ;-D >> KakkI: And for Leap Year we can include a re-cover by Judy Collins ;-) (You know I really love you Judy!) Stephen >> Of all the versions of BSN that I've heard, I think Bob should have included our own Marcel Deste's version of BSN. I was just listening to the Jonifest Box Set, and I *love* his voice and guitar playing. It's great! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri Apr 28 09:15:55 2000 From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Joni Mithcell (VLJC) Downloads direct are currently offering what I presume is a BSN free download from one Joni "Mithcell" (is the JMDL a mythcell?) David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 09:18:54 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Re: Covered in Cheese In a message dated 4/28/2000 6:16:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, FMYFL@aol.com writes: << Of all the versions of BSN that I've heard, I think Bob should have included our own Marcel Deste's version of BSN. I was just listening to the Jonifest Box Set, and I *love* his voice and guitar playing. It's great! >> I agree. I particularly like the syncopated jack boots in the background. Nice touch. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:06:57 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Joni on Leno Hi guys! Just checked "rock on tv" and Joni's name came up a couple of times. Starting on April 30 Joni is one of the several featured artists on VH1's Behind The Music, about music of the early 70's. And then Joni is also slated for Leno on May 8th. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 11:15:13 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: Betty's "I Had A King" (VLJC) In a message dated 4/27/00 12:42:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, SMEBD@aol.com writes: << I was delighted to hear that you liked the Betty Buckley cover of ACOY--I supplied this to Bob and it is one of my all time favorite covers of a Joni song. If you liked this cover, I will be very curious as to what you think of Betty's cover of "I Had A King". >> I agree that Betty does a FANTASTIC job of "I Had A King". She does have a great voice, but I never have purchased any of her albums. I guess it's because I was soooo sick of hearing "Memories" from CATS. Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 11:15:24 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) It is interesting to tape a show and watch it several times. You know all the big things that occur and you begin to notice other little details. Obviously risking flames Marcel fearlessly lists some of the "long term effects" of watching the tribute concert. 1) Larry Klein is one monster bass player. His coloring, fills, and lead fills absolutely made the music that which it would not, could not have been with any other bass player. Little credit was given to him but the other musicians were literally looking to him for feel and guidance. His timing is very special. He knows the songs and the others knew it. He also did some great JAZZ chops on the mingus section. One of his best attributes is his ability to subordinate his playing to the music and feel of the song, something that Jaco Pastorious didnt have in his bones. 2) Wynona pinches Bryan Adams ass as they leave the stage. 3) Raised on Robbery: Yeah Wynona, that first line about the Empire Hotel is really tough to hit and easy to underestimate the air you need to hit it. Bryan Adams low harmony part was really well done. It was hard to see how his sand in the larynx voice could pull it off as a harmony part but damned if he didnt. The guitar player had this look on his face like "I can hardly wait for this song to end" even though he did a good job with some classic fils. later on when they did the jazz songs it occurred to me thats what the guy really likes to do. I could be wrong but either Wynona was doing some extraordinary mugging OR she reall did like the way Bryan holds his.....drink. (see two). When she reached across his body I could see he wondered where exactly her hand was going. 4) Carey:Cindi Lauper has to be one of the absolute most underrated singers going. I saw her not too long ago at the black music awards and she more than held her own in the realm of soul and jazz. Unfortunately she must have worked on her car in the afternoon because she still had some motor oil streaks in her hair but so what. Her hip thrusts had me wondering what was going through her mind. In any event the most poignant moment happened when Ashley Judd (sigh) said that Cindi used to play the song on the street for money. Joni gets this really stunned look like it was all brought back to her and she was truly touched. She was unprepared for that comment. This demonstrated to me how unbelieveably sensetive Joni is. Since shes already written For Free whats left to say about this phenomenon of street musicians but she was deeeeeply touched. Also the way Cindi stepped out of her mike chord was masterful two thirds of the way through the song. She got tangled up as she was traipsing around checking out the horn section and then the rhythm section. Years ago I saw this happen to Jimmi Page and they had to have a roadie go out to save him by lifting up his leg like he was shoeing a horse. I feel compelled to mentioon that Page completed his solo WHILE this was being done. Not bad for a guy in a stupor. Anyway I just loved the way she slowed the song down and again Larry klein and the drummer really laid down the perfect palette for Cindis voice. I just wish the sound of Mark Ishams horn solo could have been heard. 5) Woodstock: I dont know if Richard Thompson learned these chops from Bert Jansch and John Renbourn but he sure did a mean interpretation of how Pentangle would do Woodstock. Em tuning with a lowered 6th string and he got some great bass chords on the resolve. The celtic scale did wonders for this song and one particular stretched note in the beginning actually caused Jonis ear to perk up at the end of the first verse. Like "wow what a cool note" said Joni ever the player. Someone in a prior review mentioned him "yelling" but Joni has this way of writing melodies that require the voice to go up a register or a half a register at the weirdest times and without alot of practice and anticipation you realize that you are late in your breathing and the only way to get there and sound cool is to squeeze the old diaphragm hard. Great finger picker and it sure looked like a hand made custom guitar that was old. 6) Hillary Clinton : Someday money grubbing politicians and their ideological cohorts in the television industry will actually refrain from intruding on others shining moments with their mutated touching (and factually twisted) "special moments". First of all she even mentioned that she and Bill were in England not New York so that screws up the meaning right there. Second if Jonis song meant that much to those carpetbaggers then why did they have Fleetwood Mac over to the White House and not this person who they absolutely named their only child after ? Huh. Now back to the Buddhist Temple Hillary. Maybe you can go now and arrange for a new FREE government paid psychiatric counselling health care benfit for 6 year olds confronted by masked men pointing loaded machine guns at them in the middle of the night. It WAS nice for Ted Turner to take time out from buying up over two million acres of land in the Nebraska panhandle (what does he know and does it include a missle silo) to orchestrate this crass political moment. What an intrusion. 7) Shawn Colvin/Mary Carpenter: Chelsea Morning and Big Yellow Taxi. Mary sure does an incredible and strong high harmony and Larry Kleins bass was special. James Taylor adds absolutely nothing AND he knows it. He does no harmony and you could hardly hear him. It was like he didnt practice and his voice fit nowhere. Dont tell me they brought him in just to do the silly low part on the last line...yech. 8) James Taylor: Ol Mud Slide Slim strikes again. First of all perhaps giving away some personal insight perhaps not I beleive everyone knows all about those cute little inside jokes that lovers have. Its hard to even broach this subject so I wont go into too much detail BUT suffice it to say men and women have alot of personal little phrases and sayings that are like this code that when they say something to their intimate other (not necessarily in a sexual inuendo here) the other perosn is ostensibly the only one who knows what is being said. THAT was my first thought when James Taylor immediately says to Joni "The bone on the thrown where she belongs". Would somebody help me here. Is there some COMMON knowledge that matches this reference by james Taylor. Otherwise the next shot of Joni was this quasi awkward look, back to JT begining his into to a very unique version of River then back to joni who is waving her hand with what could conceivable be a sour look which I interpreted to mean something along the lines of "I never did like your version of my song". This is a little nuance type thing but my impression was he had just used one of those phrases that only they knew what it meant but it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out. By the end of the song of course She claps and says "beautiful". All in all it was a pretty avant guarde version of the song. Not even on the same planet as Jonis melody wise. Hes a unique guitar player and his voice still can bring it. On the other hand he should have been doing rogaine instead of smack years ago. Winonna: You turn me on. Really good treatment of one of Jonis most enjoyable songs. Personally the lyrics of this song are so cleverly crafted its always been one of my favorites.The visual of the wildflower waving for ya always gets me. Having said that I have always wondered why musicians bring a guitar out to play and then it becomes a hood ornament. Elvis was the only performer who could pull that off. Winnona actually started to play then stopped. K.D.Lang: The clothes that devoured Cleveland. In that I only appreciate musicians for their music as opposed to any other thing about their life I thought KD lang was average. However in that I perpetrated such a diisturbance for having the audacity to question the womans duds I feel compelled to say one thing complimentary about them. Fact is orange parachute manufacturers everywhere are rejoicing now equipped with the knowledge of what can be done with their product. I expect a new Summer Line to debut in Paris.. It could sweep across America like the genesis project in the movie Star Trek 1. And think of the government prision system beaureaucrats who now know that the shirts they have been doling out to convicted criminals for YEARS are really Haute Coture. But enough is enough. I have heard some of her songs for the last 10 years or so and frankly I was curious as per why she was such a focal point in the evening appearing in the middle of the show. The real opportunity was missed to use her during the commercial breaks to "warm up" the audience like Doc Severinsons band used to do for Johnny. Melissa Etheridge would have done a better Help Me. Lawrence Fishburn: Of course the logical question is if your going to pack smack against KD what about Lawrence Fishburn. Well the cat was introducing Jonis Jazz and the man had on such a hellacious jazz ensemble that I found myself looking and trying to find the snifter of courvassier. I wondered aloud how, not whether, I could write this guy in for President of the country. Talk about a commanding presence. Cassandra Wilson: Dry Cleaner from des Moines. THIS was the band at its best. Amidst the pedestrian rock stuff I noticed the musicians really stretching out and then it hit me. You can get jazz men to do rock but you cant really get rock men to do jazz. In that they wanted to showcase Jonis jazz phase ( a phase that may actually solidify her position as a true giant in music history) then they had to have these guys JUST to do this song. Personally I thought the rendition was excellent. Cassandra was outstanding although they could have gotten a number of female jazz monsters to do it. As it stood Ill take it. Larry Klein was fabulous. The sax solo was a solid creative sortie out to the edge. The horn guys here were all real pros. A well done jazz song leaves you at the end wishing it had gone on longer in a different way than any other kind of song. Its like coming out of hypnosis. I thought this one did. Sweet Honey On the Pot (oops) Sweet Honey In the Pot. Circle Game. All in all not too bad. I just couldnt fiigure out why this song and this group doing it this way. We had just seen how daring Joni was with dry Cleaners. Might as well have had Pinchas Zuckerman take a crack at Turbulent Indigo. Now that I think of it Zuckerman, Andre Watts and YoYo Ma would be very interesting to hear do that song together but I digress. The truly touching words of this song were lost in a circus like cacophony of swirling round-esque gospel singing. What was the point. This was where the license taken by the producer didnt make it. Colvin and Carpenter :Amelia. One of Jonis best songs done very very well. I noticed Colvin played the song in standard tuning and Carpenter was capo'd up to about the third or fourth fret. Marian your comments or corrections please. I loved the treatment and so did Joni her eyes closed feet moving body swaying in her seat (maybe she was still thinking about James ???.....yeah right). Elton John: Eltons piano playing just tears up the building. His voice always dominates and while unique it has always fallen short of truly outstanding (you always know its him but it would never make anyone cry) and borders on the pedestrian in its timbre and soul. Ray Charles he is not vocallly. BUT that pianistry is awesome. His fills and nuances are amazing and hes so good that I believe he had to change the entire key he did the song in due to a voice problem and so all his touches probably were invented on the spot. Im sure someone out there will say I dont like him that much or think hes average but I dont know many players who dont think hes maybe the best tickler of the keys outside of the Classical masters. His comments were very meaningful although his nervousnmess in playing for Joni would be transcended by the Queen of England herself if SHE tried to play a song for Joni. I know she can repair a jeep engine because she did during the war but can she do a guitar solo. Joni Mitchell: The Mastress. I will point out that she could have worn dowdy threads or KDs orange parachute and a feed bag and pulled it off but instead she had a fantastic and classy outfit that she wore. When Joni started to sing and the deep richness of that voice begins to sink in I was just wowed. Its like drinking the best Campagne after Korbell. You realize that Shawn Colvins voice and the others are good but Joni is on this much higher level. There is so much going on in her voice.; There are all kinds of aftertones and character up the wazoo. Not just tone and pitch. Some have commented on her hands and it seemed to me that after watching all these other musicians do her music she was so excited she wanted to jump out of her skin while the song she was doing with its silky orchestration requires subtlety and finesse. She probably wished she had instead done a more energy intensive number that would allow her to cut loose more but the song she did was of course wonderful. She was all adrenalined up with no where to go. Having said that her performance was stunning. You realize how far above all the others she is and has been. When I look at Joni for whatever reason I always see the little girl sneaking out behind the barn to smoke cigarettes dreaming her dreams , the knock out folk singer in the smoky clubs in Greenwhich Village, the genius artist. I dont see a crooner in front of a full blown orchestra. Thats all right. Even after Willie was ducking curve balls and taking them for strikes I always saw his hat flying off as he scored sliding into the plate on a short single to left. I guess that my problem. Regardless of what actually occurred in the music at this tribute, to me its that the tribute itself that really happened. How many artists have such a thing happen out of all those that try to get there. This event was an absolute revenge perpetrated against all those smarty pants music critics who blithely discredited her new phases, all those look down their noses at her club managers way back when, all the music industry know it alls who probably treated her like a skunk over the years and lectured her on why her "product" just wasnt happening, who slammed her daring sorties into the uncharted waters she sailed off to without them artistically. She has become a giant amongst us. That will be forever more. Shes the member of the graduating class of the sixties who became the "most likely to succeed" towering above all others. AND she can flat out play. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:20:51 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Sorry! I forgot to give times. That Behind The Music which features Joni airs Sunday, first at 11:00 AM then 9:00 PM, both Eastern time. Don't these usually premiere at 9:00? Maybe they're throwing in the earlier showing to beat the broadcast of the 70's Mini-series? Or has this Behind The Music aired previously? Anyway this is what Rock On TV states about the show: "1970: Behind the Music" traces the musical and social currents of a year which has come to represent a fascinating watershed in American life, one reflected by concurrent shifts of politics and popular culture, and one in which a climate of militant confrontation and violence ultimately gives way to quieter, soul-fulfilling journeys. Interviews include Joni Mitchell, Paul McCartney, Bernie Taupin, James Taylor, Isaac Hayes, Judy Collins, Tom Hayden, Paul Krassner, Bobby Seale, G. Gordon Liddy, Erica Jong and Robert Altman." Legal crap I'm following for using their show write-up ;-), "you must credit this service as the source. The credit should read: RockOnTV - the ultimate guide to music on television. http://www.rockontv.com" Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:25:10 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Another cover Maddie MacNeil covers "Urge For Going" on her new CD "As Time Goes By". Maddie is a hammered and fretted dulcimer player out of Virginia, and also publishes Dulcimer Players News. I can see volume 23 of the covers CDs shaping up.... :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:37:49 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Joni Sales BSN sales dropped from 21,149 to 20,936 . . . . I guess people bought on the rumor (the advertising for the show) and not the news (the show itself). Instead, they bought catalog. Her total catalog sales were up from 29,397 to 40,112 for the week. Blue, Hejira, LOTC, HOSL, C&S were all up... Report ready for anyone who wants it. Brenda NP - Magic Man - Heart - Virgin Suicides soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:55:50 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) In a message dated 4/28/00 11:18:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << The celtic scale did wonders for this song and one particular stretched note in the beginning actually caused Jonis ear to perk up at the end of the first verse. >> thanks marcel for taking time to write out your thoughts. i am wondering, what a celtic scale is, and i am quite serious. like, how would i look it up in a book? like and indian scale might be called a harmonic minor scale. how do i find a celtic scale? and i still liked seeing kd's feet. pat. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:01:34 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Refereeing at AYSO Carpinteria Region 683 Tournament I have not heard from Linda whether I will be needed to ref. From the website, we appear to be scheduled to ref Sunday only (which is good because I will not be at the games on Saturday) at fields 3& 4 (June fields across from El Carro Park). Let me know if you will need me there -- otherwise I will leave L.A. Sunday morning at 8:30 rather than 6 am Click here: AYSO Carpinteria Region 683 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:59:40 -0500 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: k.d. lang, Sue M., and "Impossible Dreamer" Sue MacNamara wrote: "I would love to have seen kd try Impossible Dreamer. ah the beauty!" Me now: I would have liked to have heard that, too, as long as k.d. was in better voice than she seemed to be the night of the tribute taping. Did anyone else think that her version of "Help Me" was listless and never really "got going"? I kept expecting a little more vocal fire power and vigor than k.d. delivered. But the main point of this post is to point out that Sue is being humble. One of the best versions of "Impossible Dreamer" that I can imagine is her very own, which is found on the JMDL tribute, "A Tape of You" (JMDL Tape Tree #4). Anyone who hasn't heard this yet is in for a treat! On some days, I like Sue's version of this song better than even Joni's. ;-) Mary P. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:13:13 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: k.d. lang, Sue M., and "Impossible Dreamer" WOW, Mary, thanks so much! I'm blushing! :-) I wish with all my heart that I could clone myself and get to the Jonifest in New orleans this year, but alas, that's Cornell graduation weekend and I owe my soul to the company store! :-( Hope you are doing great!! take care, sue >But the main point of this post is to point out that Sue is being humble. >One of the best versions of "Impossible Dreamer" that I can imagine is her >very own, which is found on the JMDL tribute, "A Tape of You" (JMDL Tape >Tree #4). Anyone who hasn't heard this yet is in for a treat! On some >days, I like Sue's version of this song better than even Joni's. ;-) > >Mary P. "heart and humor and humility will lighten up your heavy load ..." - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:38:48 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: Re: JONI AND JAZZ Jim, I've definitely heard of Shirley Horn, never had the pleasure of playing w/ her, or Ethel for that matter, but know some guys who have. I'm sure she and Ethel are friends.....and probably both dig Joni!! thanks Dave in Balt. "James L. Leonard" wrote: > Hi, Dave. > > Thanks alot for writing. > > It wasn't until I saw your post that I remembered where I'd heard of Ethel > Ennis. I *knew* I'd heard her name, but just couldn't place her. Then, when > you mentioned Ethel's Place in Baltimore, I slapped my forehead with the > palm of my hand and said, "Of course!" > > I never made it to Ethel's (or to Baltimore, yet, I'm sorry to say), but a > good friend of mine lived in your city in the early and mid-'80s and used to > rave about the club. I'm sure he must of caught one or more of your > performances there. I'm sorry to learn the club is gone. Another great one, > Bradley's (in NYC), closed a couple of years ago, too. "Don't it *always* > seem to go..." > > Anyway, Ethel's version of "For Free" on the Joni Covers set is great...one > of my Top 5 favorites. I'd like to hear a lot more of her, and will check to > see what's available via Amazon, etc. > > Btw, one of my favorite vocalists/pianists, Shirly Horn, also lives in your > neck of the woods...in D.C., I believe. I'll bet she and Ethel are friends. > Did Shirley perform at Ethel's? I remember reading that she didn't/doesn't > like to tour, but that, before her re-emergence on the national scene in the > late-'80s and '90s, she would play out occasionally in and around D.C. Do > you know Shirley? Have you sat in with her? I've heard she can be a bit > "tempermental." But, man, nobody sings, or plays, a ballad like her! > > "Boston Jim" > > NP: Pat Metheny Trio 99 > 00 - "Giant Steps" (Coltrane) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: dave fairall / beth miller > To: joni@smoe.org ; joni-digest@smoe.org ; Anyway@bellatlantic.net ; > jll@tampabay.rr.com > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 4:41 PM > Subject: JONI AND JAZZ > > {Anyway, I'm a "dyed in the wool" fan(atic). I also enjoy many other > artists > and many styles of music. For the past twenty-five years or so I've > primarily devoted my listening hours to the study of jazz, but I don't > neglect my other interests. :) > "Boston Jim" > (who moved to Tampa) > > NP: Ethel Ennis - "For Free"} > > Hey Jim, > > I to am a jazzbo, sax player, and share you sentiments about Shadows and > Light. > When that record came out I was thrilled, Jaco, Metheny, Brecker all on > the same album playing true fusion music. Joni's output from that era defies > categorization, as in my opinion Jaco's participation took the material to a > place that had never existed, and won't again. > It's easy to get lost in the jazz thing, and back in the day when I was > shedding hours on end, Joni helped me connect to "music w/ words".... > although what always attracted me, and still does. is the harmony and > chordal voicings she employs. > > Glad you posted....and btw, Ethel's a Baltimorean as you may know, and > used to have a great jazz club called Ethel's Place, where my wife worked, > and I played on a regular basis. > The good old daze...... > > DF > Baltimore Md. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:49:29 -0600 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) very well written and expressed, marcel. it's a pleasure to read your comments (while i'm laughing my ass off at your messed up humor) even if i don't agree with all your statements. >2) Wynona pinches Bryan Adams ass as they leave the stage. you can take the girl out of country, but you can't take the country out of the girl... >6) Hillary Clinton : First of all she even mentioned that she and Bill were in >England not New York so that screws up the meaning right there. it's her meaning, not the meaning of the song. it's her interpretation of the meaning and why it makes the song so special to her. we all bring personal connection and meaning to songs. if we didn't, we wouldn't care about them or listen to them. >K.D.Lang: The clothes that devoured Cleveland. In that I only appreciate >musicians for their music as opposed to any other thing about their life I >thought KD lang was average. However in that I perpetrated such a >diisturbance for having the audacity to question the womans duds I feel >compelled to say one thing complimentary about them. Fact is orange parachute >manufacturers everywhere are rejoicing now equipped with the knowledge of >what can be done with their product. rotfl-paris runways- get ready for lesbian-parachute-chic >Melissa Etheridge would have done a better Help Me. i vehemently disagree. melissa's somewhat scratchy rock voice could not have finessed it as well as i believe kd did. i think her performance was really great. melissa would be good on say...lead balloon? she is better suited for things like inducting janis joplin into the hall of fame. (great performance) >Lawrence Fishburn: Talk about a commanding presence. i totally agree. he has that kind of sidney poitier air of confidence and ability and self assuredness that really commands respect. he's not particularly good looking, but he's so sexy! >Joni Mitchell: The Mastress. . AND she can flat out play. > does anyone have any idea about whether or not she will be playing guitar during this tour? is that a stupid question to ask? not that i wouldn't enjoy it if she did just play the BSN stuff and other standards, but i would really love if she mixed it up. alison e. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 15:40:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: k.d. lang, Sue M., and "Impossible Dreamer" I am dreaming of K.D. lang in a gorgeous Armani formal gown with her hair absolutely manicured and styled by the best stylist in the world, makeup administered by New Yorks finest and stylish Italian shoes and real diamond pendant earrings......ah but Im being an Impossible Dreamer. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:12:10 EDT From: BrainEnvy@aol.com Subject: Book Recommendations? Hi all, I'm a newbie, not only to the list but for all intents and purposes to Joni's work. I've had (and loved) Blue and Ladies of the Canyon for quite a while, but after seeing the TNT tribute I've really come to appreciate how truly amazing and deep all of her lyrics are. Anyway, my question is, does anyone have any recommendations of books about Joni? I saw on Amazon.com that there is a bio about her available, but it seemed more on the gossip-y side. I also saw that there is a compilation of her lyrics- which seems right up my alley. Are there any opinions on whether this book is worth the price? Thanks so much in advance for any help! Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:47:37 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: OBTUSE JONI? What's obtuse about Night Ride Home, Moon at the Window, Jericho, Crazy Cries of Love?..............all post Hejira, and no doubt also inspirational to many of the performers who participated in the Tribute. Obviously Joni's earlier work was the catalyst that drew them to her in the first place, but the point of the Tribute was to celebrate her body of work, and it would have been nice if they'd included material not as commercially viable, and more perhaps more controversial. I was disappointed but not surprised that the Tribute didn't include more of her later work. Dave IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/27/00 6:42:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > davebeth@bellatlantic.net writes: > > << There are so many Joni fans who paid only token attention to most of her > > post Hejira albums. > It's really frustrating having to justify and explain the significance > of > DJRD, S+L, Mingus, etc.....and again Night Ride Home, and Turbulent > Indigo, to folks whose remembrance of Joni is limited to Clouds or Free > Man. > >> > I think I am with the majority of the population, though probably not the > majority of this list, when I say I find Joni's albums after Hejira (and > Mingus, though that's another category all by itself) to be too dense, > difficult, obtuse, choose you word. It was no surprise to me that these > PERFORMERS did not choose any songs from those later albums because they > simply aren't as much fun to perform and, to be perfectly honest, are not the > albums that inspired these talented people to listen, enjoy and emulate Joni > to begin with. > > Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:27:18 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Tribute Comments after 10th viewing (long) (MAOJC) > > >6) Hillary Clinton : First of all she even mentioned that she and Bill were in > >England not New York so that screws up the meaning right there. > > it's her meaning, not the meaning of the song. it's her interpretation of > the meaning and why it makes the song so special to her. we all bring > personal connection and meaning to songs. if we didn't, we wouldn't care > about them or listen to them. Well, until i was on this list, I had thought Chelsea Morning was referring to Chelsea, London, England too as I did not know there was one in NY. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:29:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: OBTUSE JONI? > I was disappointed but not surprised that the Tribute didn't include > more of her > later work. Only from rreading the reports from you all about this show, did I know that they didn't include any of her later work. How diappointing, There is plenty to choose from. I would think the thought crossed Joni's mind. It was like it was saying that she didn't do anything worthy after Mingus. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:05:11 EDT From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Re: "your music puts me to sleep" Does anyone think that this comment of Rosie's was a little thoughtless?Joni is not someone who would want people to SLEEP to her music.Does anyone think Joni may have been slightly offended by this comment? ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 00 19:41:16 EDT From: Loren Carter Subject: Re: [Maryland preconcert gathering] Marian, and the rest of us DCers, There are no firm, set in stone plans that I know of (unless I'm not invited). Since the event is only 20-25 minutes from my home, I'm more than willing to drive up there to scope out a gathering place. All I'd need to know is what kind of place fits everyone's bill, or some plain old druthers, or a random thought, or a specific desire for the meet and greet, or .... Command me, and I will serve. Loren.... NP...the Aristocats (on tape) my son loves that movie Marian wrote: > I think Loren Carter is organizing a pre-concert gathering on May > 25th. I can't find his email address, so am writing a general > message to the list. > > I will be going to the concert with my sister, Jennifer. > CaTGirl627@aol.com will be attending with someone named Walter. I > know Lori Fye is going with her partner. And Loren is going. Are > there any other listers attending the Maryland concert? Are there > any fixed plans yet, Loren? > > Marian > > NPIMH: Tweeter & The Monkey Man - Dylan ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:25:21 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Record Biz 101 Sorry for the delay in responding to this. Hopefully, this isn't too boring for you guys. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. There are two scenarios for touring. Paid and promotional. For paid tours, there would have to be an agent in the territory doing the booking and a promoter or promoters interested in selling the show. If the overall cost of the tour is greater than the revenue generated by it then the artist generally seeks tour support from the label. In my 12 years of experience at a few major labels I can tell you I have NEVER seen an artist contract where tour supported was not 100% recouped. From Janet Jackson and the Rolling Stones to Van Morrison and David Bowie. It's a standard of the industry because labels do not make money from the tour, so when they put up money for it, it is like a loan. I don't know if Joni has an agent in Europe. If she does, that's the person you want to bug about shows there. And they will only do it if they think they can make a profit. For promotional tours outside of your home territory (in Joni's case, the U.S.), generally, the foreign territory that is hosting the artist pays all of the expenses when the artist is in their country. That territory would have to feel that the artist presence would sell enough records to justify their expense. Part of that justification is taking into account that the foreign territory has to pay back anywhere from 20 - 30% of revenue back to the home territory. And the home territory has to feel that the expense on transcontinental flights would be outweighed by that 20-30%. (This is not necessarily a small amount of money when you consider that a portion (or all) of her party will probably fly first class and that you can't make tours work on discount, restricted tickets. There are always schedule changes, many last minute.) Depending on the size of her party, you could spend $50-60,000 just getting her across the pond. Finally, the artist royalty outside of the home territory is not always the same. So depending on what the deal is, there is often not as much of an incentive to incur the expense if you're the artist. Basically, it comes down to some promoter in the country thinking they can make a profit after covering all the expenses and paying Joni her performance fee. philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Brenda wrote: > > > I would imagine it might be difficult for Joni to take her current show on > the > > road, given the orchestra and all. The main inhibitor for promoting > outside of > > your home territory is cost. It is hugely expensive to engage an > orchestra in > > every city you go to and cover all the rehearsal expense. > > The only additional cost I can think of is the flight across the > Atlantic, assume double the cost of US internal. After that the > cost of hotels, food, travel, musician hire etc would be the same. > > Philip ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:25:48 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Joni Sales BSN sales dropped from 21,149 to 20,936 . . . . I guess people bought on the rumor (the advertising for the show) and not the news (the show itself). Instead, they bought catalog. Her total catalog sales were up from 29,397 to 40,112 for the week. Blue, Hejira, LOTC, HOSL, C&S were all up... Report ready for anyone who wants it. Brenda NP - Magic Man - Heart - Virgin Suicides soundtrack ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:38:16 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: BSN costs Steve Dulson wrote: > Anyway, Joni doesn't get a penny from BSN > (except songwriting royalties) until Reprise has recouped all its costs, > and that ain't going to happen for awhile, IMHO. And that includes all > the costs for those advertising displays, listening stations at > Borders, etc., etc. Major label record releases can be like Hollywood > movies - the accountants can see to it that there is never any profit > to be shared out. > Sorry, but this is just not true. Artists start getting paid after their recoupable costs have been covered. Recoupable costs are: 1) the cost of producing the record and artist advances 2) tour support 3) 50% of promotional music video costs (not tv specials or commercial videos like PWW&M) Sometimes independent radio promotion and independent publicity fees are recoupable. It depends on who asks for it, the artist or the label. And what is recouped is the cost of the person doing the work. However, any of the label marketing expenses like retail promotions, listening stations, advertising and publicity/promotional appearances (where the artist isn't getting paid - SAG fees don't count) are not recouped against the artist's income. Let's say that Joni has an independent publicist (that she requested or had mandatory in her contract) and that publicist booked her on Today. The publicist's fee would be recoupable but the expense of the appearance would not be. So as soon as Reprise has recouped Joni's advance, production costs, etc. then she starts getting paid whether they've made back their marketing expense or not. That's why auditing is so important for artists. They have to make sure that the recoupable costs are really what they should be. I know; it's rather byzantine the way it works . . . .no wonder people like her hate it! Brenda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:06:00 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: re: laura's question about joni books Laura wrote: <<>> the only joni book i have is "Joni Mitchell , the complete poems and lyrics" I love this and yes yes yes it IS worth the price so very much. A treasure. mags - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:13:33 -0500 From: pat holden Subject: re: Rosie's comment on falling asleep to BSN Relayer wrote: <<< Does anyone think that this comment of Rosie's was a little thoughtless?Joni is not someone who would want people to SLEEP to her music.Does anyone think Joni may have been slightly offended by this comment?>>>> Since you asked...here's my read on it.... I thought Rosie was paying a grand compliment to Joni by saying this particular CD was so relaxing it put her to sleep... I dont think this was meant in a bad way at all. Just my humble opinion. mags - -- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- _~O / /\_, ___/\ /_ - ----------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:13:50 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: "your music puts me to sleep" > > Does anyone think that this comment of Rosie's was a little > thoughtless?Joni is not someone who would want people to SLEEP to her > music.Does anyone think Joni may have been slightly offended by this comment? I think she was referring specifically to Both Sides Now and no, I don't think the comment was thoughtless or offensive. She was saying that the music is beautiful & soothing. I don't think she was saying it was innocuous & boring. I think she was saying she could play it before going to bed and feel relaxed and ready to drift off into pleasant dreams. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 18:19:32 -0700 From: Gerald Heibert Subject: Joni's Paintings in London OK, I have to tell you guys my funny little story about seeing Joni's art in London. I was there with some friends in the summer of 1990, and we were taking the tube to see a show downtown. As the subway was pulling out of one of the stations, I noticed a poster that said something about a Joni Mitchell exhibit, but the print was too small for me to read the details. I asked my companion if she saw the poster about Joni Mitchell, and with great self-assurance she replied, "Oh, that's not Joni Mitchell the singer, that's Joni Mitchell, the painter". At the next stop, I got off and took a train back to the station where the posters were hung, and sure enough, Joni was having an exhibit called "Diary of a Decade" at the Broadgate Circle. When I rejoined my friends, I told them about this "find" and teased my friend unmercifully about the Joni Mitchell the Painter remark. A couple of days later we went to see the show, and had an absolutely delightful time looking at Joni's work. We all bought posters to take home with us, and mine now hangs proudly by my piano. My friend still gets teased about the Joni Mitchell the Painter remark. Those of you who are heading to Saskatoon for Joni's exhibit this year will really enjoy the show....and who knows, maybe I'll have to drive there myself! It's only about a 20 hour drive from Vancouver!!! Was anyone else lucky enough to see the London show? Gerald ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:31:49 -0400 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: "your music puts me to sleep" I hope Joni wasn't offended, because I love to listen to BSN as I drift off to dreamland dreamland. I don't listen to BSN *only* then, of course, but it seems to me that one of the powers of music is its power to relax, to calm...as in a parent crooning to a child. Parts of BSN are as soothing as anything I know. > Does anyone think that this comment of Rosie's was a little >thoughtless?Joni is not someone who would want people to SLEEP to her >music.Does anyone think Joni may have been slightly offended by this comment? > - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #164 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?