From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #157 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, April 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 157 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- what a week ["Garret" ] RE:friends and joni ["Garret" ] Re: Christine Lavin [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [Siresorrow@aol.com] toontown, krall, and giving up baby [Kate ] Re: Joni's Tribute [AsharaJM@aol.com] Re: Post C+S [Gellerray@aol.com] Re: Singers/Musicians on the JMDL [AsharaJM@aol.com] Joni Tickets [Christopher Kornmann ] Joni & Folk Song [john low ] Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Joni & Folk Song [dsk ] Where love and kindness are... [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:36:33 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: what a week Well, i've finally caught up on all those digests of late. i think i'll take this window of oppurtunity to throw a few things out there: Last week i was utterly bummed- not only did i drop my cd copy of Blue and scratch River to shreds (this happened to my Hits version recently as well), but i totally blew my practical exam in Palaentology and Structural Geology. so as you can imagine i was feeling a little down by mid week (you know, just when i wanted to hear River). so, i was eating dinner with my mother, the rest of the family were off somewhere else, she said"when u go to america, leave out that cd you always play with the songs i like" confused, as you can imagine, i said "joni mitchell??" "the one with 'you're a mean old daddy but i like you' and 'the seasons go round and round' and 'i've looked at clouds from both sides now'" "yes"i was chuffed"that's my Joni, of course i'll leave it here for you" "that way"she went on"whenever i miss you, i can listen to it" :-)she made my week a few days ago there was discussion about who ACOY was written about, and having read all the replies i must bow to our superior Joni-knowledge people. i was way off apparently. i thought i read somewhere that ACOY was about Leonard Cohen. IS this total rubbish? Or was this another song? OR is it indeed possible that ACOY is about him? i echo the sentiments posted recently- i know nothing about all those men in Jonis life. maybe some kind heart would inform us all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 00:42:43 +0100 From: "Garret" Subject: RE:friends and joni you know what, i noticed exactly the same thing recently myself. not only does my friend refuse to even acknowledge Joni, but he tends to insult her, me for liking her, and everyone on this list (hate mail to blasphemous_contemptuous_ignorantboy@.... only kidding). i can fully understand that he may not like Fleetwood Mac, Bob Dylan or Cher ( i know, how can anyone *not* like Cher?). but when it comes to Joni, sorry, noone can convince me that her lyrics are BAD, or that she can't sing. >I think it is my enthusiasm for Joni that makes my friend >not want to give her a chance. yes, it could be that or my utter disliking of Manic Street Preachers. i would never let him come to a Joni concert wiht me (if we actually were lucky enough to have JM playing in Ireland), not even as a last resort to try and convert him- that's my selfish side which dictates that i'd have to enjoy myself unforgivingly. GARRET ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:41:28 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Christine Lavin In a message dated 4/22/00 9:07:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, TanyerSCO@aol.com writes: << wallyk, still feverish and flu-ish, but happy in bridget jones's kind of way because I've lost 13 pounds in 5 days!!!! [catching the flu is so much easier than dieting...] >> now this is sick, but i love a good stomach flu every year just to drop 5 pounds. it's so easy. you don't want anything at all. you just lie there and dream of better times. then, before you know it, you've lost five big ones. only bad part is if you get one when you have plans for a trip or something. worse thing, the flu in a hotel. pretty lonenly. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 19:43:41 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts In a message dated 4/22/00 11:04:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Although I love Both Sides Now, the way she talks about modern relationships when she describes the concept for the album seems awfully cynical. She seems to be saying that romantic love is doomed to failure from the outset. >> i love the woman. and i agree with this totally. pat not in seattle. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:59:05 -0600 From: Kate Subject: toontown, krall, and giving up baby Penny: "Holly Cole rules!" this past week, but she's playing there on Sunday night, two days after the Mendel opening! ;-)" Any idea where in Toontown she's playing? We should get tickets NOW. Tanya: I suggest "Love Scenes" for your initial run with Diana Krall. It was the first one I got of hers and remains by far my favourite. Catman: "She gave up her daughter for her art." I don't think this is true. Joni gave up her daughter *for her daughter.* It wasn't in order to make it easier for her to pursue her own interests; it was because she wanted her daughter to have the secure home that she didn't trust herself to provide. I used to have trouble figuring out how anyone could be so *selfish* as to give up their child because they didn't want the responsibility of raising him/her; now I think it is the utmost loving sacrifice that a woman makes because of her love and concern for her child... it requires putting the child's needs first, not your own need (I can't imagine parting with my child, even if I were abusive -- it would be more pain than I personally could bear; and that's more selfish than giving your child up to what you hope is a better home) for the child in your life. Hope this makes sense, I'm probably not explaining myself as well as I should. Kate du Nord ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:33:14 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Tribute Heather sobbed: <> Heather, you darling, you!! Considering how much I cried at the Tribute show, with Maggie and Chuck not far behind, I for one will be very grateful for those tissues!! :-) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 22:50:52 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: Post C+S In a message dated 4/22/00 10:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, davebeth@bellatlantic.net writes: << It would have been great to have Seal there, Dave. The show could've done > with a few more guys. >> I keep thinking it would have been really cool too if the elegant and spirited David Bowie had been there and sung one of Joni's elegant, spirited songs from the 80's-90's, like "Three Great Stimulants," or, I don't know, something on Chalk Mark. And what about Paul Simon--I've always thought that there is a curious absence of connection of any kind between Joni and P.S. I have heard her mention him (but only mention, never really praise--of course) but I've never heard him talk of Joni--maybe I've just missed those interviews, who knows. I think it would have been amazing if someone had sung "Cherokee Louise," or what about "Ray's Dad's Cadillac" or "The Only Joy in Town." Any of them; I could go on and on! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:14:12 EDT From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Re: Singers/Musicians on the JMDL Kakki wrote: << A great dream would be to one day have all the JMDL musicians all together at one big Jonifest. >> And Marcel wrote: <> And after that, EVERYONE on the list gathers in Boston for the THIRD ANNUAL NEW ENGLAND LABOR DAY JONIFEST!!!! (E-mail me for more info!!!) Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 00 00:01:32 -0400 From: Christopher Kornmann Subject: Joni Tickets Hello all... I wanted to see if anyone needed tickets for Joni's upcoming show in NYC. I have 2 extra tickets for Monday the 22nd. Please let me know if anyone is interested or knows anyone that might be. The cost was $120 for both. (I would be willing to sell them for $100). Let me know. Thanks. Chris - --------------------- Christopher Kornmann Graphic Designer Spit & Image 828 Waring Avenue Bronx, NY 10467 718.798.2862 spitandimage@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 14:08:15 +1000 From: john low Subject: Joni & Folk Song I know this debate about Joni and folk music has been around for ages, but I am grateful to all those who took the time to respond to my original post. Being a relative ‘newbie’ (been a member for a year now), I wasn’t around for the earlier discussions. I guess inspiration reveals itself in different ways and I actually do think Joni’s work indicates that she has absorbed many aspects of the folk idiom, including a strong sense of narrative. I also think, though, that folk music was never the dominant influence with her. It shares that space with jazz, classical and literary influences. But, all this has been said before I’m sure. David Lahm and Sue McNamara referred me to ‘The Silky Veils of Ardour’. I take your point about this one, and feel a bit silly for overlooking it. Yes, even the title exudes the folk influence! And the discussion David and Sue’s posts initiated, suggesting a link between this song and one or more traditional folk songs, has given me some very tasty food for thought. It also reminded me of another case of ‘appropriation’ which occurred at around the same time – The Grateful Dead’s beautiful ‘Lady With A Fan’ (from ‘Terrapin Station’) which is basically a re-working of the traditional song ‘Lady of Carlisle’. This whole issue of ‘borrowing’ or ‘appropriation’ of someone else’s material is a very interesting, though contentious, one. Some would argue that it is an accepted part of the folk tradition. But just when one can attach one’s own name to the resulting composition is problematic! John (in Sydney). __________________________________________________________________ Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 21:14:20 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: toontown, Krall and giving up baby Kate asks and suggests: <> Holly Cole with Marc Jordan Location: Saskatoon Centennial Auditorium Date: Sunday, July 2 Time: 7:30 Tickets: $34 Here's the Sask Jassfest link: http://www.saskjazz.com/index.html Since I supplied the requested info, will you keep the high sticking to a minimum if I should happen to find myself in a direct line between you and Joni? ;~D Catman: <<"She gave up her daughter for her art.">> Kate replied: <> Kate, your take is more in line with my understanding of the situation. It sounds like Joni did everything she could to keep the baby, short of going to her folks for help. And even in that decision she may have been playing the protecter of her folks' reputation in the community. I don't think her art or her career factored in one iota in her decision to give up her baby. If anything her wealth that came so soon after, made her feel more heartache for giving up her child. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:19:03 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song john low wrote: > This whole issue of ‘borrowing’ or ‘appropriation’ of someone else’s > material is a very interesting, though contentious, one. Some would > argue that it is an accepted part of the folk tradition. But just when > one can attach one’s own name to the resulting composition is > problematic! People on the list that know more of music history can speak to this with more authority than I can, but I don't think that "reusing" music without attribution is limited to the folk tradition. Some examples that come to mind are Durufle "redoing" Ubi Caritas, a very old chant, or Bach including tunes so old the writers weren't known in St. Matthew's Passion, or tunes in the New World Symphony (by Dvorak?), or folk tunes in Applachian Spring (by Copland?). I'm sure there are many other examples. It seems to be something composers have always done. Nowadays if a song has been around for more than 75 years (when copyright protection ends), there's probably no legal need to list the original writer (if that person's name is even known). Someone who's more of a folkie than Joni, Joan Baez for example, would probably always make it as clear as possible where a song came from because that fits in with her image as a singer of traditional songs. But someone known as a songwriter/composer may not want to call attention to their reusing an earlier tune, and even though it doesn't seem quite right, apparently there's nothing illegal about it. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:38:13 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Where love and kindness are... It's almost Easter morning, and this Durufle is playing in my head: Ubi caritas et amor Deus ibi est. (Where true love and kindness are found, God is always there.) Wishing peace, rejoicing and rejuvenation to you all this holiday season. Debra Shea ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #157 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?