From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #156 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, April 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 156 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's Art / Exhibit [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Mark Isham (some JC and possible concert spoiler) ["Kakki" ] Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" [IVPAUL42@aol.com] folk song lyrics [Deb Messling ] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Post C+S [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Christine Lavin [TanyerSCO@aol.com] Diana Krall [TanyerSCO@aol.com] Re: Students and Joni Mitchell [TanyerSCO@aol.com] Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Re: Post C+S [dave fairall / beth miller ] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Post C+S [RSTM@aol.com] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts [RSTM@aol.com] Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" [catman ] Carly Sings Joni response [catman ] more on carly singing joni [catman ] Re: Joni & Folk Song [Dflahm@aol.com] Need a favor ... [FredNow@aol.com] Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts ["susan+rick" > There is a very good article up on jonimitchell.com giving all the most up to date details. Sounds like they want to tour it nationally (Canada) and then internationally, but I don't think anything is set in stone yet for when the art works would tour. I just got my airline booked today to attend the opening night of "Voices", at the Mendel in Saskatoon. YAY!....all set! All I have to do now is figure out how to avoid Kate from the north. ;-) Sounds like she's a pretty determined canuck! Putting two and two together, after I've seen them drive and watched enough hockey, I'm getting pretty damn scared to find myself being between Kate and Joni! ;~D What's the current count of JMDLers now going up for that? Coyote, Roberto?, Ashara?, me, Kate from the north, and evian if he can flee a family reunion for awhile. Has anyone else made their plans to attend? Oh! As another little bonus, and I can't remember who said "Holly Cole rules!" this past week, but she's playing there on Sunday night, two days after the Mendel opening! ;-) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:06:49 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Mark Isham (some JC and possible concert spoiler) Sue C. wrote: >I am leaving my husband for Mark Isham. He is adorable >and I want to have his children. He is the sexiest trumpet >player alive. And Debra ummmed: >Um-hmm. Yeah, it gets a little warm for me when he and >Cyndi so closely "communicate" at one point. He really is adorable and sexy in a quiet way. He plays in little clubs in L.A. with his Electronic Project band constantly when he is not touring or scoring movies. I've been on his mailing list for a long time and saw that his last local appearance was a couple weeks ago. Since it was at The Mint and near my yoga class, I decided to drop in. Towers Records had set up a table of CDs there for the new movie "Rules of Engagement" which Isham scored. While there, I spoke a little with his manager (who has Steve Dulson's exact English accent!). His manager was raving about all the recent Joni appearances like he was a listmember ;-) Anyway, he said that Isham may only be appearing at a couple of the upcoming Joni shows because he was already booked to go off and score three more movies during the tour period ;-( Of course, I whined when I heard that. Hope there can be some miracle re-scheduling worked out. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:33:06 -0500 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Joni on the Diana Krall Fan Site Joni Mitchell made front page on the unofficial Diana Krall site http://www.dkrall.com/main.shtml You can go to the message board and read lots of comments on Joni, Diana and the TNT Tribute. One message linked jonimitchell.com for the pictures of the show (Diana in particular!). There are varying opinions of everyone........Joni included. Remember to be nice if you're just visiting! :-) Under the ARTICLES section: Krall expands boundaries Canadian jazz giant Diana Krall to play Ottawa Lilith Fair 8/10/98 Diana is quoted as saying: "I'm just striving to have a career that lasts and has integrity -- like Joni Mitchell." Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:07:40 +0100 From: "Ross, Les" Subject: Katie Couric interview and the Instrument Hi I've just been watching and listening to the Interview KC had with JM and was delighted to watch excerpts from the TNT show. James's version of River sounds like a little piece of unbridled joy and made me wish that I'd been able to watch the whole show. Maybe some day. But I particularly enjoyed JMs couple of bars of Both Sides Now towards the end of the clip. As ever, JM played around a bit with her rendition of the song. I love that, I really enjoy it when she moves the melody and phrasing around. I've often wondered why JMs music has had such an enduring effect on me. Of course the songs are great, for the most part, but I've heard other people's versions and remain largely unmoved by them. It is with some surprise, therefore, that it has taken me some twenty odd years to realise that it is the instrument of her voice that makes me respond to her work in an almost visceral and persistent way. It's so like a tuning fork to my senses that time and time again I get that 'goose-flesh' reaction and connect with it so fundamentally. Hearing the short extract from the televised BSN brokered in me a 'thunderhead' of feeling. Gosh, that's remarkable after all this time and all the other musicians to whom I've listened. Way back when the BSN project was announced and we all got into a debate about whether or not JM had the voice to sing those 'Standards', I may have argued otherwise, but deep down I felt that, No, she probably couldn't. But My God can she emote. The comparisons are redundant; no she isn't Ella, Billie, Sarah etc etc, she's Joni and she brings to the feast 'Joni', take it or leave it. If you want potatoes, don't eat rice. I listened and listened to the BSN record to the exclusion of all others when the LE version came out and found that it, along with other things, was party to my foundering 'in the grey place' and so I stopped. I've, step by step, set aside the things that lead me there and the 'green foothills' don't seem so far away now. My reaction to the concert clip confirms that I have still some way to go but I was moved by it sufficiently to come back to the list and report in, so to speak. I've missed the day-long chatter and insight. I'd love to pick up tickets to see this JM roadshow if it ever comes to London but.......is there any news about that? Oh yes, one other thing, I've been playing and singing Case of You using the chord charts from the JM Songbook (an ancient and collapsing volume) and find that the chords no longer match the melody as it is played on BSN. I've tried to jig them around and find the right chord for the slightly changed melody but am failing hopelessly. Has anyone in 'tuning' land had a look at that and come up with the revised chording. You see, I'm hoping to go out to Indonesia in the autumn to hook up with an old art school chum. We used to play and sing together and are hoping to revisit our dueting times by doing a couple of performances. He still does appearances there at some folk club or other. I'd like to include ACOY in the set - bold or what!? - and would prefer to tackle the BSN version. Thanks, in anticipation. Les (still in the grey desert) but otherwise resident in London ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:37:10 GMT From: "Ada Wittenberger" Subject: "they'll say that you're crazy" Hi everyone. My name is nuriel. I was born in nazareth and I still live in north israel. What I’m about to tell you may seem as a madmans letter. Most of the times I told this to anyone I was treated as a madman. I’m sure most of you would feel the same – but I’ve got nothing to loose. I’d like to say that everything I'm about to tell you is true. You’re free to believe it or not. There’s a music company in london named 4ad. 4ad is an alternativ music group. The first time I've ever listened to a 4ad artist was in the late 80s. At the summer of 89 I felt an urge to send my music to 4ad. I could’ve composed some songs – but I’ve chosen not to. I asked 3 friends to meet me at a recording-basement. We played a jam that was recorded on a broken tape. I was singing and my friends were playing guitar, bass , keyboards and drums. All songs were improvised. We recorded 6 songs. It lasted an hour. 2 days later I mailed the tape to 4ad. It was called "highland" and I named our band "riss” – which means in hebrew “an eye-lash” A month later I got a call from the manager of 4ad. His name is ivo watts-russel. He told me that "highland" was the strangest thing he has ever listened to. He could’nt believe that anyone could improvise such a thing. He said that it was a revelation and said that he thinks I’m the messiah. I don’t think that I’m the messiah and I never will. (please go on reading – I promise you that you’ll be amazed) ivo confused me. He asked me where did I get the idea of improvising music. I told him that by listening to 4ad artists d e b u t albums I’ve noticed that they were all very home-made. Ivo said that it’s true, but added that none of them were an improvisation, and insisted on a better answer. Our conversation became very open and free. I had to tell him that 4ad artists debut albums always reminded me of something. I told him that they all had the same format of jonis debut Ivo words were “yes – jonis debut is what started 4ads tradition. 4ad is the temple of her” He added “we always thought that our lilyth will last forever – till you came along” – And hung up the phone. Then new albums were released on 4ad. Photos of me were on every cover. My name was mentioned on every song. Everything was about me and “highland”. Ivo and 4ad were celebrating the “come of the child”. Then “night ride home" was released. I instantly understood that joni has listened to "highland" too and was a part of the "celebration" I knew I had to talk to ivo again – but first I had to understand what has happened at the "lilyth temple" before my "revelation". I searched for all the albums on 4ad that came out before 90. You don’t have to be a genius and you don’t have to be very much inlightened to notice That the albums and the artists that ivo personally chose to release were all about her. The songs – the covers – everything was about joni. I called him again. The moment he picked up the phone I asked him “is joni aware of this, mister?” Ivo laughed and said “no, you fool – she’s B E H I N D this!!!” I asked him “are you her representative?” He laughed again and said “my relationship with joni is a private matter!!!” Then he hung up the phone. That was too much for me. I had a breakdown and was taken to an asylum. I was out of there after a month. A new 4ad album was released. It was a band named "his name is alive" and the album was named "mouth by mouth" A photo of me was on the front cover, and my closest friends were amazed. But what amazed me was that jonis voice was recorded on it. A conversation she had with some woman. At this point I'd like to stop. You must understand that what you've just read is a little piece of the information I have. Many of the things I wrote here may seem crazy or at best needing more explanation. I could tell you everything step by step and explain everything – but I know that only few of you will be interested in this case And believe me folks – you’ve heard nothing yet. For those of you who need to know more – I’m willing to tell you all the details. It’s impossible to do so on one letter – and that’s why I stopped. For those of you who found this a madmans words – I hope you had fun. Yours, nuriel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:35:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" In a message dated 4/22/00 6:39:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wittadi@hotmail.com writes: << That was too much for me. I had a breakdown and was taken to an asylum. I was out of there after a month. >> Obviously much too soon. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:44:53 -0400 From: Deb Messling Subject: folk song lyrics Perhaps most people know the lyrics to "Wayfaring Stranger" and "Water is Wide," but here they are. I wouldn't chastise Joni for adapting these lyrics. You can't steal a folk song! She probably didn't feel to make the source explicit, because she expected most people to recognize the source. And she wove these different lyrics together for her own unique poetic purpose. It's akin to her borrowing from Shakespeare for "That Song About the Midway." It's not stealing, it's allusion. I AM A POOR WAYFARING STRANGER I am a poor wayfaring stranger A-trav'ling through this land of woe. And there's no sickness, toil or danger In that bright world to which I go. I'm going home to see my father (mother, sister, brother etc.) I'm going there no more to roam; I'm just a-going over Jordan I'm just a-going over home. I know dark clouds will gather 'round me I know my way is steep and rough; But beauteous fields lie just beyond me Where souls redeemed their vigil keep. I'm going there to meet my mother She said she'd meet me when I come I'm just a-going over Jordan I'm just a-going over home. I want to wear a crown of glory When I get home to that bright land I want to shout Salvation's story In concert with that bloodwashed band. I'm going there to meet my Saviour To sing His praises forevermore I'm only going over Jordan I'm only going over home. WATER IS WIDE The water is wide, I cannot get oer Neither have I wings to fly Give me a boat that can carry two And both shall row, my love and I A ship there is and she sails the sea She's loaded deep as deep can be But not so deep as the love I'm in I know not if I sink or swim I leaned my back against an oak Thinking it was a trusty tree But first it bent and then it broke So did my love prove false to me I reached my finger into some soft bush Thinking the fairest flower to find I pricked my finger to the bone And left the fairest flower behind Oh love be handsome and love be kind Gay as a jewel when first it is new But love grows old and waxes cold And fades away like the morning dew Must I go bound while you go free Must I love a man who doesn't love me Must I be born with so little art As to love a man who'll break my heart When cockle shells turn silver bells Then will my love come back to me When roses bloom in winter's gloom Then will my love return to me Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:18:13 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts In a message dated 4/22/00 12:21:24 AM US Central Standard Time, mann@chicagonet.net writes: << Don't you think this is why she may be taking a break from writing her own songs? >> Laura, this was a GREAT post and you're probably about 90% right. I DO hope that she is able to work through it emotionally and create...what an emotional treasure chest it would be! Not that I'm looking for gossipy dirt, just the kind of emotional journey that has become her trademark, she's dealing with emotions that we've all dealt with, other manifestations of lave & the petty wars... << It's probably a real good time for Joni to concentrate on her paintings.>> Hush your mouth! ;~D Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:30:11 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Post C+S In a message dated 4/21/00 11:13:18 AM US Central Standard Time, davebeth@bellatlantic.net writes: << "How Can You Stop" would've been cool, and had they recruited Seal to perform, maybe memorable. >> It would have been great to have Seal there, Dave. The show could've done with a few more guys. BTW, put me in the category of those who thought R. Thompson's songs were MAGNIFICENT! And just to be nit-picky, "How Do You Stop" isn't Joni's song, it was written by Dan Hartman who also gave us the 80's hit "I Can Dream About You"... But it would have been a great tribute to see/hear songs that AREN'T so well known, to maybe inspire the audience to check out her 80's & 90's stuff. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:05:01 EDT From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Christine Lavin In a message dated 4/22/00 3:07:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: alison, i absolutely adore Christine Lavin!!!! i had never heard any of her music until last st valentine's day. wnyc played her "regretting what i said". my [then] lover and i were just waking up and getting into heavy duty st valentine's morning practices, when all of a sudden i started paying attention to the lyrics. we couldn't focus anymore, she was so funny! i'd really like to know more about her. wallyk, still feverish and flu-ish, but happy in bridget jones's kind of way because I've lost 13 pounds in 5 days!!!! [catching the flu is so much easier than dieting...] > i often wonder if there are any Christine Lavin or Patty Larkin fans hanging > out in jmdl land? > alison e. in slc. >> Wally and Alison, I have just discovered Christine Lavin myself and am trying to find more of her music. Where can I find some recordings? Do you know that song "It's a good thing he can't read my mind". I'm trying to find some stuff for a show I'm planning on doing here in NYC in the next year or so. Any help would be much appreciated! : ) Tanya ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:07:55 EDT From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Diana Krall Hi everyone! Ok. I was totally sold on Diana Krall's performance of Case of You at the tribute concert. I was sitting in the audience, completely captivated, and then asked myself, "Where the hell have I been?????" Does anyone know of a good first Diana Krall album to pick up? Thanks, Tanya ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:11:29 EDT From: TanyerSCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Students and Joni Mitchell In a message dated 4/22/00 3:07:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << A student asked "What concert?" She said "Not anything you all would be interested in, it was a tribute to Joni Mitchell." A student replied "Joni Mitchell ROCKS!!!" >> Patricia, I too am a teacher at a high school in NYC, only I'm a music teacher at a performing arts high school. Now these kids should know their music, right? I, like your sister, also went to school the next day completely out of it. My students didn't know who Joni was but when I sang a little of BYT, they said - "No! That's Janet Jackson!" Ahhhh, to be a teenager again. : ) Tanya ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:44:44 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" >For those of you who found this a madmans words – I hope you had fun. > >Yours, >nuriel Alright, I have an idea that this message is really from Don Rowe, being the trickster that he is. Victor http://www.mindspring.com/~waytoblu/Tangled.htm > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:03:39 -0500 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: Re: Post C+S Bob, Don't agree on RT, even more so after having watched the tape again and again... Thanks for the correction on How Do You Stop....wouldn't have been appropriate since it wasn't penned by Joni...but something / anything from Night Ride Home and / or Turbulent Indigo would've been great. Seal, David Crosby, Michael McDonald or Peter Gabriel, all onetime collaborators, come to mind as possible potential male invitees. Maybe next time!! thanks, dave SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/21/00 11:13:18 AM US Central Standard Time, > davebeth@bellatlantic.net writes: > > << "How Can You Stop" would've been cool, and had they recruited Seal to > perform, > maybe memorable. >> > > It would have been great to have Seal there, Dave. The show could've done > with a few more guys. BTW, put me in the category of those who thought R. > Thompson's songs were MAGNIFICENT! > > And just to be nit-picky, "How Do You Stop" isn't Joni's song, it was written > by Dan Hartman who also gave us the 80's hit "I Can Dream About You"... > > But it would have been a great tribute to see/hear songs that AREN'T so well > known, to maybe inspire the audience to check out her 80's & 90's stuff. > > Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 08:02:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts > Then on top of the emotional ride with > Kilaurin.........I bet Myrtle > is riding her over this........ > maybe even telling Joni......."you made > your bed.......you lie in it" kind of thing. > Along with the moral issue and such. > Bet Joni's getting it from all sides. > > Joni's gone for years without having any > emotional ties or 'family' responsibilities. > Her life was really her own.....she had > time to indulge her creativity & perfect > it. She's also > admited to up and leaving relationships > after a few years because they start > getting 'uncomfortable'. This is so funny that you should write this post today, Laura. I was talking with a woman I work with yesterday. She is also someone who has reunited with a daughter she gave up when she was a teenager and that daughter now has a step-daughter and a daughter of her own. My co-worker has a step-daughter also who considers my co-worker to be her mother and was an only child before the adopted daughter was found. To make a long story short, the step-daughter was devastated that she would no longer be the only child. And that got me to thinking about Joni. I think people make far too many assumptions about Myrtle. We only see her through Joni's eyes. And I think Joni in all probability has many of the classic traits of an only child. People who are the only child in a family tend to grow up thinking the world revolves around them. Couple that with the fact that Joni almost died of polio at a young age. My feeling is that an already doting father became an even more indulgent one after he almost lost his precious daughter. Myrtle probably came to feel that she had to try to provide some kind of balance in Joni's life. Anyway, I don't believe that Myrtle is chiding Joni at this late date. I think she is probably trying to support her daughter in any way she can but it's probably not easy given that they probably do not have an easy history. I also wonder if being an only child hasn't affected Joni's behavior in her various romantic relationships and if that isn't partly accountable for her inability to sustain one. Although I love Both Sides Now, the way she talks about modern relationships when she describes the concept for the album seems awfully cynical. She seems to be saying that romantic love is doomed to failure from the outset. It's true, the initial spark and excitement of new love usually settles down after a time. But I think (and I know there are people on this list who know I'm right) that what evolves when the feelings are deep and genuine is something that is so much more & so much richer than physical chemistry that it's worth the effort of sustaining a marriage or relationship. However, if you're pretty much unable to live with someone else because you can't overlook their faults or see past the nose on the end of your face, well of course you're not going to succeed. Please don't flame me for saying Joni is this way! I'm only speculating and we know she can be a kind & gracious person. But I think, in spite of all the words of wisdom she has given us about love over the years, that her recent comments about relationships show her to be rather cynical and short-sighted about them. Don't get me wrong. I love her dearly. But I just don't understand why this intelligent woman who obviously feels with such depth has this view of love that is so bleak. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:09:25 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: Joni & skating Hi Jimmy. I didn't realize you were a figure skater. I skated in college and could land all the single jumps, including an axel. I've found in listening to BSN, that I think of skating to various pieces. The way the music 'flows' is just perfect for some wonderful choreography. Good luck with your program! Anne btw: I'm sure you know that Toller Cranston is the skater on the cover of Hejira. And I think Sandra Bezic is the woman in the wedding dress. Joni is apparently a skating fan! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:17:14 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Re: Post C+S Its amazing how two people can look at the same performance and disagree. I think Elton added nothing to the song; someone loved him. You liked Diana Krall, I thought it was affected and unmelodic. I am intrigued by the "what ifs" and have come up with my own wish list for JM covers: Nancy Griffith Little Green Chrissie Hynde A Case of You Natalie Merchant River Neil Young Black Crow Van Morrison Furry Sings the Blues Sting Free man in Paris Tori Amos Carrey Diane Warren Jericho Lauren Hill Woman of Heart and Mind Sweet Honey in the Rock Don Juan's Reckless Daughter Tuck and Patty Both Sides Now Ron in Lost Angeles time on my hands, no child to raise ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 11:20:28 EDT From: RSTM@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts In a message dated 4/22/2000 8:04:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << Don't get me wrong. I love her dearly. But I just don't understand why this intelligent woman who obviously feels with such depth has this view of love that is so bleak. >> Great art from neurotics; what a concept! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:02:52 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: "they'll say that you're crazy" > > That was too much for me. > I had a breakdown and was taken to an asylum. hi! Which one were you in? I have been in a few. Maybe we met? I was the one calling myself carly. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:11:13 +0100 From: catman Subject: Carly Sings Joni? This was posted on the carly Board: carly has spoken kindly of joni in the media; however, joni has never been especially warm in her comments of carly or of many other of her peers. of course, joni doesn't consider carly or many other women singer songwriters of her era to be on her level. somehow, i don't think it would be appropriate for carly to sing at her tribute. why pay tribute to an ego maniac who has dissed you publicly on several occasions. of course, this probably has little or nothing to do with why carly wasn't in attendance. i think joni is very talented, but she's extremely full of herself and she's long since lost what little vocal quality she once had. enough said. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:12:22 +0100 From: catman Subject: Carly Sings Joni response I do have to agree with you that Joni at times does seem full of herself. However, I must disagree with you that Joni has lost her vocal quality. I think her voice has improved with time. She is a much better singer from "Court and Spark" on, than her earlier work. Not taking anything away from Carly, Joni is the absolute greatest female composer of her generation. Carly and Joni are two different people. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:16:50 +0100 From: catman Subject: more on carly singing joni I would have to say "Chelsea Morning" or "People's Parties" on the upbeat side.Could also do a very sensual........"Blue Motel Room".This last one would be my personal pick.Glad to see an new recording coming out.Could I give her a Bronx Cheer since that's where she was originally from and where I still live???.......and yes! of course "Riverdale" is in the Bronx I don't think that Carly and Joni have had a good relationship throughout the years. I was not surprised that she wasn't at the tribute. It could be the fact that they both have had a relationship with James Taylor. I disagree with you about Carly doing a good "Woodstock". The only version of "Woodstock" I have ever heard that I thought was really good is CSNY's version of it. I didn't like JT's, Joni's or Richard Thompson's version on the tribute show. Some of the Joni songs I do think Carly could do real justice to are: "Woman Of heart and Mind", "Rainy Night House", "The Circle Game" and "Both Sides Now". This is just my opinion about what songs I think Carly would do a great job on. I am a huge fan of Carly, James and Joni. One artist I would have loved to see doing Joni is Rickie Lee Jones. This of course was very unlikely, since they also do not have a good relationship. When Rickie was starting out, there were comparisons in the press that neither Joni or she seemed to appreciate. JD Looking at the posts over at the JT link, I suddenly realized that Carly should have been there too. What a show that would have been, with her and James teaming up for--which song? Which song should Carly and/or Carly and James performed? I personally think she would have done a fantastic job on "Woodstock" or another song from "Ladies" : "For Free." Any other thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 12:47:44 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni & Folk Song Do you mean the entire song, with its harmonies and asymetrical phrase lengths, dates from 1890? That would SHOCK me; I'm not so surprised about the words. LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:45:50 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Need a favor ... Since I don't have cable, my PARENTS taped the tribute for me, which was sweet of them, but my PARENTS have a knack for setting the timer to the exact minute a show is supposed to end, and their clock is off. So the credits listing the musicians was cut off. Would anyone be so kind as to email me a list of the entire band? Thanks, Fred Simon ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 10:56:41 -0700 From: "susan+rick" Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Mark in Seattle posted: > Please don't flame me for saying Joni is this way! I'm only > speculating and we know she can be a kind & gracious person. But I > think, in spite of all the words of wisdom she has given us about love > over the years, that her recent comments about relationships show her > to be rather cynical and short-sighted about them. > > Don't get me wrong. I love her dearly. But I just don't understand > why this intelligent woman who obviously feels with such depth has > this view of love that is so bleak. In one of the recent interviews I've read or heard with Joni she stated (I'm paraphrasing) that romantic love seemed to be a trick of nature designed to keep the human race propagating. After the bloom of chemical love dissipates there better be something else you can appreciate or the romance is doomed. Hence the cry of "You've changed" by the FOURTH song of BSN! Have all of Joni's relationships soured less than of third of the way through them? Is this the immutable "arc of a modern relationship" for her? If that's the case then I can understand her cynicism completely. All good things Rick, celebrating his 13th wedding anniversary today. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 13:00:24 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Laura wrote: <> Bob: <> Laura: << It's probably a real good time for Joni to concentrate on her paintings.>> Bob: <> I've been thinking about this whole subject lately too. First off, although I agree with Laura in that it may be the safest and wisest thing for Joni to *not write* much right now, I don't think she'll be able to refrain from writing for very long. I just don't think painting is going to be enough of a release for her. And like Bob, I also think that some of Joni's most amazing works are yet to come, directly out of her emotional rollercoaster centered around the relationship with Kilauren. BTW, just how much of TTT was written before her and Kilauren got in contact with each other? Some of the things I could see weighing heavily right now would be the years of longing for Kelly, so much so that it was a driving force in her art, and now, when she realizes just how much of a struggle the reality of that long sought relationship actually *is*, Joni's head and heart are probably spinning. (I could see Joni gaining, for the first time in her life, a deep respect for Myrtle too.) This relationship with Kilauren is a whole new ballgame for Joni. I mean it's one thing for a person to break away from a lover, spouse or parents, but it's something completely different to give up trying to make and keep ties to one's child! Joni may be feeling relationship pressure, like she's never before experienced.....without that option to bail. Joni has made statements, I think the last in the London Times interview, sounding a bit like projection in that it's something Kilauren is going to have to deal with. Maybe so. I don't know about any other listers who experienced the absolute worst time emotionally around mid-30's, but I know that was the worst time in my life, without anything earth shattering to deal with, and have women friends who've said the same about that period in their lives. And this is just the age Kilauren is now....apart from the trauma and media circus of finding out your mom is Joni Mitchell. What an emotional nightmare for all involved! And back to the painting. In Saskatoon I'm going to be paying close attention to Joni's paintings of the last couple years that weren't created soley for the purpose of "album art". And Joni has said time and time again lately, that her tailwind comes from her fans. Apart from her cats, we could be the most consistant and sustained relationship(s) of her life. I adore that woman, and I sure hope she feels every ounce of love people have for her on her up-coming tour! Penny PS Another thought is, I wonder if all this stress and strain with Kilauren is not a factor in why Joni is booking her time solid? :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 16:29:36 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts Penny said << BTW, do other's think Joni has aged 10 years in the last two? Is it the camera that's aging her so much lately or is it stress, possibly form the struggle over her relationship with Kilauren? >> While she looked a lot older on the Tribute show, I thought she looked much younger on Rosie, and even Rosie commented how good she looked. I imagine it's the different lighting and makeup. << BTW, just how much of TTT was written before her and Kilauren got in contact with each other? >> "Stay In Touch" is the only thing even close, and I don't think it was written with her in mind, rather about a "significant other"-type relationship. << I adore that woman, and I sure hope she feels every ounce of love people have for her on her up-coming tour! >> I think she's gonna have a much better time than on the 98 tour, because all the people there will be there FOR HER! Bob NP: Springsteen, "Galveston Bay", live in Stockholm 03/96 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 17:38:59 EDT From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: TNT All Start (sic) Tribute To Joni Mitchell Well, it's a big wide world, and we're all gonna have different takes, some aligning and some veering. Here's a few of mine. "Kurt Joachim von Behrmann" wrote: >Wynonna did a great job, and has a way with Joni Mitchell's music. Although >I am not a big Brian Adams fan, he mangaed to do a respectable job. But >Wynnona way outclassed him as a musician and singer. I thought she sounded horrible (really out of tune) on Robbery, better on Radio but too much a slave to the original phrasing. Adams OK, but you know who would have sounded great on Robbery, either with Adams or, better yet, by herself ... Tina Turner would have rocked the house. >k.d. Lang is just excellent. Her rendition of a slower sultry version of >her big 70's hit "Help ME" was just too sweet. This one really captured the >erotic feel of this song. Loved k.d. ... very cool version, almost a 70s R&B vibe, like Marvin Gaye. Made it her own. >Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter were just perfect choices. I could >see them doing a whole concert of Mitchell compositions. Would have very much preferred Shawn by herself. Very much. >Sweet Honey in the Rock, they are always good, and this night they were >not exception. A nice reworking of the Circle Game. Dug the cycling and weaving. Made it their own. >Honorable Mention, Ok, but not my favorites > >Cindy Lauper, now I enjoy Cindy Lauper. She has made some good music, but I >just don't think this rendition was as charming as Joni Mitchell's. I >could think of any number of songs she could have sung that would have been better >for her. It didn't work for me. Loved Cindi(y?), but probably shouldn't have gone around again at the end, though. Oh well ... made it her own, with mystery and soul. >James Taylor, I like James Taylor, but the song and the way he sung it >did not capture the drama of the original. Again, I can think of a number of >Mitchell songs that would have been a better choice. James killed me, totally made it his own, in fact, sounded like he wrote the music. Beautiful. >Diana Krall, I have to admit Joni did this one well, I think this was >a nice version. Well worth the time. It just seems that certain songs are >just so closely associated with Joni Mitchell that it is hard to envision anyone >doing them nearly as well. I have previously been mostly lukewarm on Krall ... she's competent but doesn't move me (although I did enjoy her bossa-nova version of Irving Berlin's Let's face the Music and Dance that she did recently on the Tonight Show). But she definitely moved me on Case Of You, and definitely made it her own. One of the best of the night. >Someone take the mic away > >Richard Thompson, I think there was a reason there were so few cuts to >Joni Mitchell during Richard Thompson's horrific version of the 60's anthem >"Woodstock." What he did to "Black Crow should be considered a criminal >act. His voice, grating and off and on key singing was just awful. To >do what he did should be punished. I really think Joni Mitchell thought it >sucked as badly as I did. Easily the worse part of the show in my opinion. Pretty much agree. His singing was awful, out of tune, time, etc. Nice guitar on Woodstock, though. I've enjoyed much of what he's done in the past (Shoot Out the Lights), but he was wrong on this gig, although there's no inherent reason he couldn't have been right for it. >Cassandra Wilson tried hard, but it just didn't jell for me. This has never >been an easy song to sing, but Wilson for me just didn't capture the "jazz" >feel of the song. Dry Cleaner is a fun song and it was all lost on this >dead version that just did not swing. Didn't thrill me. I agree ... rhythm section not grooving. >Elton John, boy it was a real pain to see him play and sing this classic. >It just did not suite him any more than his bad wigs. Elton has made some >classic music, but I think he lacks the sincerity in his music of Joni >Mitchell. I think he just seemed out of place. OK, bad wigs, rings and all, I dug Elton a lot. He managed to pay homage to Joni but it also sounded like a tune he could have written. Rocking and swinging, soulful, and the right chord changes to boot. Some other observations: 1) Very surreal, Hollywood-vibe to it all ... so un-Joni like. She says as much when she speaks at the end. Like those Oscar tributes to Jack Nicholson, etc. ... "this is your life." Bizarre. 2) Many singers, though not all, sounded very out of tune and I wondered whether there was a monitor problem 3) Dean Parks! Dean Parks! Dean Parks! ... man that guy played some perfect, soulful tasty guitar, and all while looking like he was whittling on a porch. 4) I dug the photos hanging by strings, etc. in the retrospectives. And some incredibly gorgeous photos of Joni. 5) Hillary didn't bother me; she was sweet. 6) What's the big whoop about k.d lang's outfit? She's doing her own thing and looked very comfortable. 7) Here's some folks I think would have been fantastic on the show: Prince (self-avowed big-time Joni fan), Peter Gabriel, Phoebe Snow, Annie Lennox, Pat Metheny, just to name a few. 8) Joni absolutely killed on BSN, as well as the orchestra. Outstanding. And, once, again, I have to celebrate Vince Mendoza's incredible arrangement ... he made it his own. Fred, now ... and forever ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:48:39 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni Today Show Interview (more thoughts) I also thought Laura's insight hit right to the core. Mark, your thoughts regarding Joni's only child status and her relationship with her parents are also very insightful. However, I've read in a few interviews where Joni distinctly qualifies her comments on the BSN concept, saying that it is just a creative device she used about the roller coaster of romantic love only. As far as her sustaining relationships, I actually think she's done pretty well considering her fame and the life she has lived. I was surprised to read in the updated CSN bio that Graham takes the responsibility for their relationship ending, saying that *he* was the one who did not put enough into the relationship to sustain it (he was off too much with the boys touring and enjoying the band's first flush of success). Who knows about James T. except that he seemed to become more enamored with Carly at the time (hi colin). She and Klein held it together ten years and are still obviously on very close terms. Her relationship with Donald has sustained almost ten years and that's with the added challenge of the geographical long-distance between them. I think it's simplistic to attribute her relationship ups and downs to being an only child. No one has a perfect relationship with all the loved ones in their lives. There are so many other factors in life that can bring challenges to any particular relationship. And now I know some of you out there who know I am also an only child are now thinking "aha, she's defensive!" Well, from my own personal experience and from what I've read in studies, only children *do* sometimes have difficulty understanding where other people are coming from because they have not been exposed to the give and take battles and negotiations experienced by children with siblings. They are also very used to and content with being alone - solitude is a natural state to them - and tend to be more independent. It's not so much that the world revolves around them, but rather, that they tend to live in their own world. Not a recipe for great success in all relationships, but definitely a good recipe for stimulating creativity. I do think Joni's relationship with Kilauren is probably the most challenging in her life and I'm with the camp who thinks some of her most brilliant writing and music is yet to come out of the experience. Kiluaren is probably also having her own challenges these days as a single mother with a small child and a new baby. Kakki NP: Kyle Eastwood - Solace ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:22:49 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts > > In one of the recent interviews I've read or heard with Joni she stated (I'm > paraphrasing) that romantic love seemed to be a trick of nature designed to > keep the human race propagating. After the bloom of chemical love dissipates > there better be something else you can appreciate or the romance is doomed. That 'chemical' thing does not last. For a relationship to last there has to be something else-like love for the person. There are men I have felt a strong attraction to, had relationships with, that were bastards underneath the chemicals. Of course I was too young to understand that at the time. After being with John 19 years, I can say that the love just grows deeper as time goes by. Of course the days of sex for breakfast lucnh and dinner have gone but the passion has not. Nothing has become predictable. Life is still exciting and we still talk twice a day on the phone, and certainly everynight. when he is on a business trip, he still phones. yet we live different lives and have different interests. we don't live in eachother's pockets. The only people we know who have been tgether as long as we have are our neighbours Joyce and Raphael. I don't know what makes them tick. However, from the people we know who have broken up, I would say that the one thing we have noticed about them is that they were not willing to live and let live and above all let go. Control seemed to be the issue. I can imagine, but of course do not know, that Joni would be very controlling and demanding and hard to please. She gave up her daughter for her art. Love is about loving the person as they are and not as you wish them to be. I t also has to do with self love and I would hazard a guess that joni has problems in that department too. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 23:29:09 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni's Today Show Interview - More Thoughts SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > > Penny said > > << BTW, do other's think Joni > has aged 10 years in the last two? Is it the camera that's aging her so > much lately or is it stress, possibly form the struggle over her > relationship with Kilauren? >> > > While she looked a lot older on the Tribute show, I thought she looked much > younger on Rosie, and even Rosie commented how good she looked. I imagine > it's the different lighting and makeup. I have only seen the photo's Deb put up and I noticed that she looked heavier and matronly. But she doesn't look old. She looks like many a woman does at this age. she looks like a granny. I like the kaftan type clothes too. I think she looked well and radiant. Perhaps she is feeling more at peace with the world and herself. I certainly think he look is preferable to the type of look say Jaon Rivers has or Joan Collins-they remind me of the lving dead as in Death Becomes Her. > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #156 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?