From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #150 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, April 19 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 150 The 'Official' Joni Mitchell Homepage, created by Wally Breese, can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com. It contains the latest news, a detailed bio, Original Interviews, essays, lyrics and much much more. --- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. --- Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund" with all donations going directly towards the upkeep of the website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds. it is now up to US to help Jim continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA. 01983 USA ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Singers/Musicians on the JMDL [picard3@webtv.net (Sherelle Smith)] Jonimitchell.com Website costs and explanations [AsharaJM@aol.com] tickets May 22nd - NYC ["amy boyce" ] Re: Covers Project ["Kakki" ] Re: Record Biz 101 [philipf@tinet.ie] KD clothes and CD covers and Nicotene ["howard_scptv" ] A Case of You [Steve Dulson ] Re: Record Biz 101 ["Brenda J. Walker" ] BSN-LE [Steve Dulson ] JMDL Benefit ["Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" ] River ["Kate Bennnett" ] Re: more tribute thoughts [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Narlins ["Kate Bennnett" ] Re: Covers Project [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: A Case of You [Marksa973@aol.com] Re: A Case of You [Steve Dulson ] Re: Tribute, Video Trees [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] Re: TNT Tribute [Mike Friedman ] Re: Covers Project ["Helen M. Adcock" ] apres madonna [jan gyn ] Alas, More Comments on TNT (Long) [Lindsay Moon ] Re: apres madonna [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: A Case of You [Gellerray@aol.com] Its the writer not the singer not the song (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] She Hisses Her Summer Lawns ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Tribute Casual [Vince Lavieri ] Re: Grace ["Mark or Travis" ] Joni&David&Cher, and Saskatoon [AngelinoCoyote@aol.com] guitar tunings ["David P. Swanson" ] HOSL Songbook ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: Last week's sale for Both Sides Now [Randy Remote ] Re: Last week's sale for Both Sides Now ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: BSN-LE ["Brenda J. Walker" ] Re: BSN-LE [Vince Lavieri ] Joni-in her own words [Greg Dudichum ] Re: Its the writer not the singer not the song (md) ["Mark or Travis" > and Deb asked: <> No. Unfortunately, Reprise only pays a one-time promotional fee when there is a new CD coming out. Jim still hasn't received this amount from the February promotional site for BSN. Feldman and Associates pays a once-yearly reimbursement for the domain name registration annual renewal. (This has also not been received.) There are many other costs involved in running this site, including phone charges (calling many venues to find up-to-date information for the website, such as when something is being aired, or when tickets go on sale) and per month ISP and server charges. This does not even take into consideration the time that Jim puts into the website, including site creation maintenance. Research, design and production (normally about four hours a day right now, seven days a week): Research (obtaining and verifying current information on Joni can often be VERY time-consuming). Design: HTML, image preparation, writing or transcribing, scanning, uploading, troubleshooting, answering e-mail as time permits, file maintenance on server, maintenance of extensive archive for use as background documentation. The fact is this: Jim needs to earn a living. If the website is not supported (yes, the fact is, it *should* definitely be supported by Reprise, Joni's management, etc., but it's not) then it will eventually go under - as simple as that. According to Jim, "If it comes down to working on the site or making a living, I'm going to have to curtail work on the site to live unless I get a little help." I hope this information helps everyone to understand the situation. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:43:58 PDT From: "amy boyce" Subject: tickets May 22nd - NYC Hi all, Due to some scheduling stupidity on my part I have two tickets to Joni's NY concert on May 22nd that I have to part with. Anyone interested should e-mail me at amyboyce@hotmail.com. (I'm living a Will and Grace episode...) The tickets are middle, center of the mezz. in Mad. Sq. Garden, and were $75/each (minus handling). Thanks all. Unhappily yours, Amy ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 12:40:45 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Covers Project Stephen wrote: > I think that the "Mitchell/Taylor Boy/Girl" choir sings on "Will >You Still Love Me Tomorrow" and not on "You've Got a >Friend". And you are right, it is one of the classics Joni >contributions ever and deserves a place on Vol. 3. I taped this one for my next installment going to Bob, but there is a recurring pop noise from my old vinyl, so maybe Phyliss can send a better copy. Good luck on the Mabel, Stephen! Kakki NP: Eric Clapton - Inside of Me ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:57:32 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Record Biz 101 Brenda J. Walker wrote: > Sales outside of the U.S. are a definite crap shoot. The US while it's important is only 30% of the world's music market. Someone should tell the bean counters at Siquomb hq that they're losing a lot of sales by not promoting and touring in the other 70% of the market. Europe also has 30% of the world's record sales. It seems to me that a short tour taking in the key markets of UK, Germany, France and 'em Ireland (ok that last one's a joke) would generate a lot of additional sales. Philip NP Steely Dan - Turn That Heartbeat Over Again ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 00 14:56:51 -0500 From: "howard_scptv" Subject: KD clothes and CD covers and Nicotene 1. Get over what kd wore. Please, people. She sang the song beautifully. Maybe her clothes were hipper than hip and we just don't know it. What did you want her to wear? Those big hoop skirts and cowboy from her Angel with a Lariat days? Get over it. 2. Where do I get my hands on or who do I get to put into my hands the CD covers collection? Will work for CDs. 3. Did I read correctly that JM has quit smoking? I saw her with a cigarette during the Tribute concert. 4. Reaction shots: I don't doubt that JM enjoyed the performances of her music but reaction shots (of anyone, including JM) are not necessarily used in the same video moment that the reactions were originally made. For instance, I react to JM singing BSN and that is taped, but in the final airing of the show, my reaction is seen during the performance of ACOY. This happens especially a lot with audience shots. So, it could mean that JM was reacting to a different song than the one in the video. This *could* happen, doesn't mean it did. 5. Isn't it funny how varied the reactions are to different people? Some love R Thompson, some hate him. It's what make the world go 'round. Howard M NP: Rough Cut of "Living on the Edge", a new special for HGTV ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:59:47 +0100 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Record Biz 101 Kakki wrote > > I want to believe that Joni would have been considered an in-demand artist > for this one. She has remarked lately in interviews on how well Reprise has > been treating her and it would be nice if they decided to foot the whole > production bill considering that they are going to also profit from this > promotion with the temporary upsurge of sales of her older catalog product. I'd imagine that an artist as big as Joni has a deal where she dosen't have to recoup 100 % or her tour costs for the label. Classical artists who sell a lot less records than Joni would have similar tour costs If the tour is a sell out, maybe she can break even or better. Philip NP Steely Dan - Brooklyn (Owes the Charmer Under Me) I wonder what that means in english. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:08:07 +0100 From: "Kevin J. Greenland" Subject: I can't cope ! Help me, I've just joined and I'm getting a message every couple of minutes. How do I sub to the digest ? I can't do it through the site as my email address is "strange" apparentely. Kev xxx ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:25:15 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: A Case of You Pbart123@aol.com wrote: >Does anyone know who A Case of You was written for? I always thought it was about James Taylor, and the "woman with a mouth like yours" was his sister Kate. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:29:23 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Record Biz 101 According to the latest numbers released, U.S. is 40%, then Japan at 17% and then Great Britain at 7.6%. Music sales fell almost everywhere last year except the U.S. Check here for more details: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000414/re/leisure_music_2.html I would imagine it might be difficult for Joni to take her current show on the road, given the orchestra and all. The main inhibitor for promoting outside of your home territory is cost. It is hugely expensive to engage an orchestra in every city you go to and cover all the rehearsal expense. And it's all recoupable. Hopefully they'll put together some type of tour for Europe, nevermind the cost. Brenda (in sunny, at least today anyway, Culver City, CA) NP - Buena Vista Social Club - Dos Gardenias philipf@tinet.ie wrote: > Brenda J. Walker wrote: > > > Sales outside of the U.S. are a definite crap shoot. > > The US while it's important is only 30% of the world's music market. > Someone should tell the bean counters at Siquomb hq that they're losing > a lot of sales by not promoting and touring in the other 70% of the market. > Europe also has 30% of the world's record sales. It seems to me that a > short tour taking in the key markets of UK, Germany, France and 'em > Ireland (ok that last one's a joke) would generate a lot of additional > sales. > > Philip > > NP Steely Dan - Turn That Heartbeat Over Again ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:31:12 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: BSN-LE Brenda wrote: >There were 5,500 copies of the special package sold. Hmmm..out of the 15,000 produced... ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:38:41 -0400 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu \(Lamadoo\)" Subject: JMDL Benefit Here's a reminder JMDLers. If you buy your CDs from CD Universe, a small portion of proceeds help to begin to reimburse Les for his expenses of the JMDL website. http://cdu2.cduniverse.com/asp/cdu_main.asp?frm=lk_jmdl If you prefer to shop at CD Now, use this link: http://www.cdnow.com/from=sr-159240 All the best, Lamadoo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:01:50 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: River Has anyone heard Holly Cole's version of River (I don't think I saw it on your compilation CD, forgive me if it was). I really like it! Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:50:09 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: more tribute thoughts In a message dated 4/19/00 5:15:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, sem8@cornell.edu writes: << After the '98 tour I insist on hearing him play on BLACK CROW. Richard Thompson was magnificent. >> Before all the new knowledge I picked up from the list, I had never heard of Richard Thompson nor really like Black Crow. I am a convert to both. No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:12:45 -0700 From: "Kate Bennnett" Subject: Narlins The Jonifest in Narlins sounds really fun but I don't think I will be able to make it. Darn-- it would be really fun to do one of her songs for ya'll and to hear other JMDL performers interpret. However, I would like to contribute to the festivities by donating a CD or few as a door prize if it is appropriate and would help somehow. Although I just learned of and joined this list, I love the JM website and read it a lot when Joni was on tour with Van & Dylan (I got to see her in LA). Then I went back to it early this year and was so sad to hear about Wally. But how wonderful that he got to spend time with Joni. Anyway, whoever is in charge of this sort of thing, let me know and I will mail the CD(s) to you. Kate Bennett Singer Songwriter kate@katebennett.com www.katebennett.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:55:43 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Project My other half just got a Caludine Longet import CD from Japan (go figure) which contains a cover of BSN. Did y'all already know about this one? The rest of her stuff sounds a little bit like TelleTubbies to me, and this cover is certainly unique! No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:35:02 EDT From: Marksa973@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of You In a message dated 4/19/00 4:27:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << >Does anyone know who A Case of You was written for? I always thought it was about James Taylor, and the "woman with a mouth like yours" was his sister Kate. >> I always thought it was about James Taylor too, but I thought the "woman with a mouth like yours" was Carole King. I'm not sure why. I know Joni and James did back-ups on Carole's Tapestry album as the Mitchell-Taylor Boy and Girl Choir, and I always assumed James had some involvement with Carole before Joni. I just can't imagine James' sister being the one advising Joni to "be prepared to bleed". Anyone else have any ideas? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:13:54 -0700 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Re: A Case of You >...I always assumed James had some involvement with Carole >before Joni. Certainly never heard anything about that. It's not impossible, though. >I just can't imagine James' sister being the one advising Joni >to "be prepared to bleed". Who would know better about his youthful tribulations, his "devils and his deeds", his addiction and institutionalization than his family? Hey, Marksa973@aol.com, if you're going to disagree with me, at least sign your name, OK? :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:25:05 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Re: Tribute, Video Trees In a message dated 4/19/00 12:29:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, AsharaJM@aol.com writes: << and it seems that every time I "finally" catch up, I am way behind again in a short span of time. I am just starting to read everyone's thoughts about the Tribute, and even though I have 6 or 7 more digests to read >> I am in the early spring of my JMDL life. I was wondering if one of you in the winter or fall of yours can tell me what it is like, email volume-wise, when the whole world is not about JM and she stays home and works. I am loving these emails - all 100+ per day! Even though I now need glasses. This is fantastic, seeing the Lady get her due! No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:31:45 -0700 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: TNT Tribute Sweetest, we must get you a copy of this tape! :-) ================================================================ "Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?" "I think so, Brain, but how are we gonna find chaps our size?" Mike Friedman San Francisco, CA, USA http://63.192.218.181 > From: catman > Reply-To: catman > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:21:27 +0100 > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: TNT Tribute > > Okay, all of us not in the USA, what shall we talk about? :( > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:43:59 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Covers Project Jimmy wrote: >Thanks to all the JMDLers for sending Bob all of this great music. I'm >especially enjoying the 3 songs by Jacqui Fitzgerald. I believe I >read those were submitted by Hell in NZ. That must be from the good Hell! I'm glad you like my little contribution - it seems a lot of people are impressed with Jacqui's interpretation of Joni's songs. So much so, that I'm tempted to get in touch with her about it (she lives not far from me)! Maybe she'd consider a whole album. She'd probably sell a few copies on this list! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:00:03 -0700 From: jan gyn Subject: apres madonna re: madonna and the concept of 'genius' I liked her first album, with 'Starlight' and 'Borderline'. Then she went WAY downhill. As she got older she got more conservative, UNLIKE SOMEONE WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE. True, she has a 'genius' for marketing, choosing producers and staying in the spotlight. But this not the same 'genius' as that of having a fierce and virile creativity, like say the 60s Beatles or Miles Davis or THE ONE WE ALL KNOW AND LOVE. - -jan BTW, there's much Joni 'Tribute' discussion on both the main Hendrix list and the Miles Davis list. Madonna may have more fans, but Joni's're cooler. ;) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:22:17 -0700 From: Lindsay Moon Subject: Alas, More Comments on TNT (Long) Well, as if this hasn't been discussed enough -- I'm chipping in my own opinions on the TNT Special. I have enjoyed reading everyone else's. Let me preface this by saying that I think when it all comes down to it, I'll always think Joni does the best versions of her songs. I have trouble getting into other peoples' versions of her songs, although Bonnie Raitt's version of "That Song About the Midway" I think is just great. To me, the artists just never capture the spirit of the piece or in some cases the musical brilliance, for instance the beat or the mixing of colors or whatever. Okay, I'm just a cranky, hard-to-please, anal Joni lover. Leave it at that. Of course I was thrilled that such a show even took place. Maybe if Joe Q. Public channel surfed and landed on it, they might get a glimpse of the heartfelt feelings people have for that beautiful woman and her music. I loved the video clips and the many pictures I hadn't seen before. I missed some input from the people who were with her at the outset, either David Crosby or Graham Nash. I guess they're touring right now, but they might have cut Hillary for one of those two. Musically, I enjoyed Wynona and Bryan's version of Raised on Robbery. To me, it had a lot of spirit and rock and roll elements that I think it "should." k.d. lang I love but I'm afraid I'll have to go with the stodgy crowd and diss her outfit. I said to a friend, couldn' t they have done something with that outfit? A scarf? A belt? A trashcan? I agree with whoever said she looked like she'd just rolled out of bed. Cyndi Lauper's version of "Carey" was very good -- enjoyed the slower beat. I didn't care for James Taylor's version of "River." I am not a musician (and do not play one of TV -- as evidenced by my not being invited to join in The Tribute!) but, to me, it sounded like he'd transposed the song into a major tuning (eeeeuuuuwwww!) which took all the discordance out of the song which is what was so compelling about the original. To me, he homogenized it. But I enjoyed their interaction. I'm likening Richard Thompson to Bob Dylan -- I guess you either love him or hate him. I couldn't get past the fact he seemed to be so out of tune and that, to me, neither "Woodstock" nor "Black Crow" bore any resemblance to the originals. I agree with David Lahm who said something along the lines of he completely missed the rhythm of the song (excuse me, David, if I'm mis-paraphrasing you.) I thought Shawn Colvin and Mary Chapin Carpenter did great versions of their songs. My husband was thinking they were out of tune on Chelsea Morning, but to me it sounded right. The harmonies are just unusual which is why it is a great song and so Joni. I thought Amelia was just beautiful ... but then it wasn't too far from the original. Sir Elton was most amusing and I enjoyed his version of "Free Man in Paris." Joni seemed to too. What must Joni be thinking? It must be a very strange position to be in, especially being put in a box where all performers bow to you. I wonder if she wouldn't have felt more comfortable just jamming around with some of these people rather than having it be so formal. Need I even mention her singing "BSN"? It brings me to tears every time. Funny, I notice that when she sings, she sort of wiggles and flexes her fingers, almost as if she still mimics playing the guitar to that song. All in all, it was a beautiful show (too bad they didn't let Joni design some nice set backdrops as she has on past tours -- oooohhhhh, maybe long vertical panels with the self-portraits from STAS, LTOC, WTRF and BSN? I wish someone had contacted me about this!!) Epilogue -- great to see so many new listers inspired by this show. I was contacted by a friend's sister and we are setting up a date for her to peruse my prized possession of JMDL tape tree treasures (say that 10 times fast!) Thank you for getting through this. I don't post often and was so inspired by everyone's comments. My best to you all, and I am so excited about the L.A. May 12 day which will be here soon. Hope I have enough Kleenex ... Lindsay in San Diego P.S. Trivia Question: In the videos (I believe the segment narrated by Tony Bennett focusing on her as a painter) there are a couple of shots of her at a canvas on maybe a patio with her foot in a cast. What did I miss? Does anyone know about this mishap? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 16:25:25 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: apres madonna Jan writes: <> OK, the wheels start turning again. Paul Allen, Bill Gates' partner, owner of the Portland Trailblazers, main residence in Seattle, HUGE Hendrix fan..... maybe he could help persuade Joni to play either Portland or Seattle on the BSN tour? ;-) (smart guy Paul, sold off a million shares of Microsoft before the court decision happened...maybe he could celebrate his stock savings by helping get together another great concert in the PacNorWest. ;-) He even made a point of having his Rose Garden (where the Blazers play) built state of the art soundwise for it's size. I can see the adds already.....Joni's Both Sides Now set For The Rose(s). ;-) Penny NP: Impossible Dreamer ;-) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us versus them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:25:36 EDT From: Gellerray@aol.com Subject: Re: A Case of You In a message dated 4/19/00 4:27:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, steve@psitech.com writes: << I always thought it was about James Taylor, and the "woman with a mouth like yours" was his sister Kate. >> wow--i used to think that too I remember. But then I don't know anymore; I mean it could be true but then again I have read that so many songs are about other people--about Graham Nash for instance (i mean even as late as on Blue) or Crosby--or some guy whose name was Blue. So it gets confusing. But that is something, that thinking it might have been Kate--I used to think that. Now, having heard that JT's mom has a wall still covered with pictures of Joni and James together (who was it that wrote that recently?), maybe she must join the list of "suspects" in the mystery of the great Case of You's third verse! rg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:43:48 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Its the writer not the singer not the song (md) In a message dated 4/19/2000 4:25:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, moonlj@san.rr.com writes: << Let me preface this by saying that I think when it all comes down to it, I'll always think Joni does the best versions of her songs. I have trouble getting into other peoples' versions of her songs, although Bonnie Raitt's version of "That Song About the Midway" I think is just great. To me, the artists just never capture the spirit of the piece or in some cases the musical brilliance, for instance the beat or the mixing of colors or whatever. >> Good take on this. I have watched many segments of a show called Austin County Limits (I think) which always showcases songwriters (some famous some not) and I was always intrigued by how the original songwriters version was always "the best". Even when some other artist did the song and it sold a billion copies I always liked the songwriters version better. Randy Newmans "Mama told me not to come" for instance. But there are many other instances. I think its because the songwriter has subliminal things in the song. memories behind the words or lyrics. They KNOW why they wrote what they wrote and it is subliminally in the lyrics, they are picturing it in their minds (whatever it is) as they sing it. The spirit, as opposed to the words, is in the voice of the original composer. . Those who cover the song may have a similar memory (lost love etc) but it isnt the same. The writer actually pictures the person of whom the song was written about. Just Like to See You Again (of Jonis) is a great example and judging from the way Joni LOOKED at James Taylor ( as opposed to the others) I could tell they had a great time together which is what she says in the song. I also think that of all the writers I have ever heard no one incorporates private messages to those she has known into her lyrics. I can think of a hundred examples of this. I asked some time ago if anyone knew the chronology of Jonis love life and relationships and some sent me nasty messages thinking I was prying into purient matters, but this was why I was curious because I have found so many references to her relationships in so many of her songs. She may be singing "Old friends are acting strange..." but it would be neet to know who the real old friends are. Thats all. Most of the time the songwriter believes that no one will figure out this private message "but that ex lover who jilted me will really get it". "The hair in the bathtub drain" from Backstreets, is a great example. The "boom boom pachyderm" etc. All these and so many more. Miss Joni sure has sent alot of messages. As for why the songwriter has this ability I think is that the song comes from the heart and soul of the songwriter, but only from the voice of the cover artist. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 00:59:13 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: She Hisses Her Summer Lawns Having nothing really to talk about, everyone else talking about the Tribute and the upcoming shows, I have decided to mention that when I was listening to HOSL, and more in particularly the title track, I have heard that Joni uses the word 'lawns' onomatopoeically, as in 'lawnsssssssss' like she was hissing it herself. Has anyone found this too? Have a fresh listen. Also I have been listening to NRH recently and I have come to really respect it's work. It's funny how certain sounds and phrases jump out at you when you aren't listening too hard. All the 'voices' she uses in Slouching Towards Bethlehem. I love The Windfall now and yet when it first came out and until now I HATED it. Zoob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 20:20:22 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Tribute Casual I can't believe this discussion on k d lang's or anyone's clothing is for real. Those of us who are of a certain age - that is, within ten years of Joni's age - grew up proclaiming, "It's your thing, do what you wanna do..." We had songs about Hair... about Signs... about here we come, walking down the street, getting funniest looks from everyone we meet... but we don't put anyone down... and I remember those absurd arguments with my parents about bell bottoms and turtlenecks to church being disrespectful... I feel sorrow for all of those who have grown up to be as stodgy and narrow and closed as we complained of our parents of being... What a pity to watch a tribute to Joni and instead of enjoying, becoming fashion police. "Oh, dear, that one isn't wearing any shoes!" "Oh, my, in our day we never went barefoot in the park...." "Oh, look at that horrid hairstyle; when I was a child, we never went outside without combing our hair!" "Oh goodness, these young people are so disrespectful." "Yes, we hippies and flower children and freaks were so classy; these kids today are so horrible. That k. d. lang... not capitalizing her name... who does she think she is, r. crumb or e. e. cummings?" "Well, I am so disgusted by this terrible insult to Joni with these dreadful fashions and hairstyles, that I, for one, cannot enjoy the music." "Ok, let's turn off the tv and play the Who: "My Generation." "Hope I die before I get old!" Vince ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 17:49:50 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Grace - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Hicks" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 9:14 AM Subject: Grace > There are some on the Fulton list that would like to see the same > tribute for Grace Slick. What do you think? I'm a big J. Airplane > fan. However, I think Joni personally had a bigger impact than did > Grace. Grace was also on the cutting edge with her music and lyrics > that rubbed some the wrong way. I liked that edge though. > > mh I'm a big fan of Grace's too. She maybe wasn't as prolific or on the same level with Joni but she was very unique & challenging in her own way. Of all the members of the Jefferson Airplane that performed on the reunion album, I thought Grace was the one whose writing showed the most growth & maturity. The rest all sounded like they were still stuck in the 60s (except Marty who is stuck in the late 70s, early 80s). A couple of Grace's solo albums did show her trying to branch out from the acid rock thang. Grace sang in a way that I've never heard anybody else sing. And her lyrics were often outrageous but always provocative and well-crafted. Some of the tunes weren't bad either. But Grace never was and never will be the musician/poet/composer that Joni is. In her recent memoir Grace said she had seen Joni in a restaurant recently and even though they had met one another back in the heyday, she didn't have the guts to go up and speak to somebody who had worked with Charles Mingus. But I think Grace still deserves her own tribute. It would be interesting to see who would perform and what their choice of songs would be. You can bet that 'Somebody To Love' (even though she didn't write it) and 'White Rabbit' would be in there somewhere! Mark who will stubbornly return to being 'in Seattle' even though technically it's Shoreline ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:07:50 EDT From: AngelinoCoyote@aol.com Subject: Joni&David&Cher, and Saskatoon Hell to all: A trip last weekend to Las Vegas brought some excitement and intrigue. First, the excitement. I am not a *good* gambler. However, on this trip all I touched turned to gold and I came home $600 richer. I gave the moola to my better half, who had been complaining about the cost of airfare from LA to Saskatoon. Guess what? The $600 bought my ticket. He still won't go, but now I can go, free of nag and guilt, courtesy of the Flamingo and it's richly rewarding $1 slot machine. Don't get me wrong on a lifetime-to-date basis, they still owe me big time. Laying around the Flamingo pool, basking in the sun and my good fortune, I began reading Cher's autobibabble. The First Time she called it. In a chapter titled, My First Time with a New Friend, Cher writes about Geffen. ..."It was late one night when Joni Mitchell came walking through the door to tell David she was on her way out. After she left, I said, "So what is she doing here?" David said, "She's recording an album, and she's living with me." Then in parens, Cher writes...(The album was Court and Spark). Then she concludes...I thought, *this is getting stranger and stranger.* I am sitting here seeing Cher wanting to get laid, Geffen preferring Sonny, and Joni in the mix somewhere writing some song about it (FMIP?...wonder if there were extra verses, conjuring up lyrics here) and feeling like some sorta fag hag. *This is getting good.* Now, flash forward to the 1998 Vanity Fair Oscar party and there's Cher and Joni together in the famous photo-op. (Hmmm... Discussing Geffen war stories?) With, of all people, the list's recently much discussed k.d. lang (looking under-dressed) and Madonna. *This life is getting weird.* I am f---ing loving this. NP: Pet Shop Boys - Nightlife (appropriately) No regrets, Coyote Casa Alegre Hollywood, California I'll be dancin' on a pony keg. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:10:12 -0700 From: "David P. Swanson" Subject: guitar tunings I visited the new site for Joni and checked out the guitar tabs section. Question for guitar players - I know some major and minor chords like G, Gm, D, Dm. etc - Does one play the same finger configurations/placements when you tune the guitar differently ?? David Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 02:13:53 +0100 From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: HOSL Songbook I was just wondering if anyone onlist has a HOSL songbook cluttering up their library and would like to sell it to me here in the UK? Email me privately please. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:32:08 -0700 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Last week's sale for Both Sides Now Brenda, thanks for the info, and the music biz insights- I was wondering if the accumulated total sales numbers are readily available-or locked in the record co's vault somewhere...for BSN as well as her catalog albums.. Welcome to the list, Randy "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > > Here sales jumped 6,289 units, driven mostly from the advertising for > the special I'm sure. This does not include the sales since the > special, as this report is for the week ending 4/16. There will likely > be another big jump next week. > > She moved up the chart from 98 to 66. > > Title Report: National Sales Report Week Ending > 04/16/00 > 04/19/00 > 13:00:07 > BOTH SIDES NOW > MITCHELL*JONI > WAR Rel: 02/08/00 > > Cat: 47640 > This Last 2 Weeks 3 Weeks 93 > TD > Week Week Ago Ago > Total > ---- ---- ------- > ------- ------ > Total 21149 14860 14581 18079 74243 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:35:06 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: BSN-LE > Brenda wrote: > > >There were 5,500 copies of the special package sold. > > Hmmm..out of the 15,000 produced... > So why the hell couldn't CDNow get ahold of a replacement for the damaged one they shipped to my friend Melanie? It was her birthday present from me and she still doesn't have a playable cd! (her birthday was way back at the beginning of March) They did redeem themselves, however. I finally called them and they said they would credit me for the original order, cancel the replacement and allow me to use the credit to ship Mel a copy of the regular jewel box edition. So she doesn't have to return the special packaging but she will finally get a good cd. And I used the credit to get two additional cds for us! Mark in SEATTLE!!!!!! DAMMIT! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:38:22 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: Last week's sale for Both Sides Now The Soundscan report that I've sent to a few people has the accumulated sales on all her releases (music & video) since Soundscan began in '93. Randy Remote wrote: > Brenda, thanks for the info, and the music biz insights- > I was wondering if the accumulated total sales numbers are > readily available-or locked in the record co's vault > somewhere...for BSN as well as her catalog albums.. > Welcome to the list, > Randy > > "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > > > > Here sales jumped 6,289 units, driven mostly from the advertising for > > the special I'm sure. This does not include the sales since the > > special, as this report is for the week ending 4/16. There will likely > > be another big jump next week. > > > > She moved up the chart from 98 to 66. > > > > Title Report: National Sales Report Week Ending > > 04/16/00 > > 04/19/00 > > 13:00:07 > > BOTH SIDES NOW > > MITCHELL*JONI > > WAR Rel: 02/08/00 > > > > Cat: 47640 > > This Last 2 Weeks 3 Weeks 93 > > TD > > Week Week Ago Ago > > Total > > ---- ---- ------- > > ------- ------ > > Total 21149 14860 14581 18079 74243 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:39:35 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: BSN-LE A friend of mine sent the CD only to Warners and they mailed a new CD back within a few days. Mark or Travis wrote: > > Brenda wrote: > > > > >There were 5,500 copies of the special package sold. > > > > Hmmm..out of the 15,000 produced... > > > > So why the hell couldn't CDNow get ahold of a replacement for the > damaged one they shipped to my friend Melanie? It was her birthday > present from me and she still doesn't have a playable cd! (her > birthday was way back at the beginning of March) > > They did redeem themselves, however. I finally called them and they > said they would credit me for the original order, cancel the > replacement and allow me to use the credit to ship Mel a copy of the > regular jewel box edition. So she doesn't have to return the special > packaging but she will finally get a good cd. And I used the credit > to get two additional cds for us! > > Mark in SEATTLE!!!!!! DAMMIT! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 18:54:44 -0700 From: "Brenda J. Walker" Subject: Re: BSN-LE Sorry, I should have been more clear. There were 5,500 sold BEFORE the jewel box came out. The two have the same catalog listing so there is no way to distinguish between them after the jewel box release. So I'm sure more have sold and once you get down to 5,000 or fewer units in the marketplace, it becomes hard to find them. (They end up spread out among the thousands of retail outlets in the country). Steve Dulson wrote: > Brenda wrote: > > >There were 5,500 copies of the special package sold. > > Hmmm..out of the 15,000 produced... > > ######################################################### > Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com > "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com > "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ > "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:22:40 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: BSN-LE 5,500 SOLD, 9,500 REPLACED before the jewel box came out :-) "Brenda J. Walker" wrote: > Sorry, I should have been more clear. There were 5,500 sold BEFORE the jewel > box came out. The two have the same catalog listing so there is no way to > distinguish between them after the jewel box release. So I'm sure more have > sold and once you get down to 5,000 or fewer units in the marketplace, it > becomes hard to find them. (They end up spread out among the thousands of > retail outlets in the country). > > Steve Dulson wrote: > > > Brenda wrote: > > > > >There were 5,500 copies of the special package sold. > > > > Hmmm..out of the 15,000 produced... > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:20:26 -0400 From: Greg Dudichum Subject: Joni-in her own words Hello I've been reading the digest for about a month. I found out about it when I checked back on Wally's site after being away from it for about a year and a half. This is the first time I've posted to any list. I sent two emails to two people asking them not to post star trek and star wars messages. I didn't think it warranted being posted. Thankfully I was made awhere of the only-jodydigest list. I had been subscribed to the lee-shore digest for about two years but had to jump off because of too much unrelated chatter. I've just completed my Joni CD collection (and others) after finding MassMusic.com: http://massmusic.com/cgi-bin/mr.cgi?session_id=648x943932043 No I am not affilliated with any .com it's just that they have all of joni's CD's. Most for 8.95@ and in stock. The best part is that they ship via the US Postal service cheap! Around this last Christmas holiday thru Feb. there was free shipping. One of my orders was $320.00. Being a 50 year old music lover I had over 500 albums. My CD count is probably near that now. But I digress. And so I don't get blammed for (NJC) the reason for this post is to let you know that I found two interesting first person interviews: Follow this link to "Joni Mitchell-In Her Own Words" http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/8678/ssjonimitchell.html Check this one out too: "Joni Mitchell-Out of the Quicksand" http://www.rolandus.com/USERS/RUG/ARCHIVE/WIN_96/FEAT14_2/JONI1.HTM If the links don't work just search what's in the quotes. She talks about the early days just in from Canada. I also would like to brag a bit 'cause I have a ticket (for myself) in the PIT (sixth row from the stage) at the E-Center Camden, NJ. I was the only one waiting for West Coast Video (Ticketmaster agent) store to open on Monday, March 27 @10:00AM. I ran in loudly asking for Joni Mitchell tickets and he said Joni who? He had to go by the date to find it. When he asked if the PIT was OK I couldn't contain myself which promted a response of "your acting childish." I didn't give-a-shit! I was in-the-PIT! Suddenly $81.50 was not expensive bye,Greg ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:22:41 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Its the writer not the singer not the song (md) Lindsay Moon wrote: << Let me preface this by saying that I think when it all comes down to it, > I'll > always think Joni does the best versions of her songs. and Marcel contributed: > > Good take on this. I have watched many segments of a show called Austin > County Limits (I think) which always showcases songwriters (some famous some > not) and I was always intrigued by how the original songwriters version was > always "the best". And to both of you, I say: (the rest of you can read along if you like) I was talking to a friend of mine at work about the TNT tribute and he commented that he was a bit disappointed that nobody covered anything later than Mingus (he's a DED fan). Although I don't necessarily agree with Marcel that the songwriter always does the best rendition of their own songs (I would have to cite Dylan and Burt Bacharach as people who, imo, should never sing outside of the privacy of their showers), I do think that it would be extremely difficult for any singer to cover most of Joni's post Court & Spark catalogue. Joni has always been one of a kind & her songs, completely unique. But her earlier songs produced hits for people who recorded some of them. Those songs could be sung by someone besides Joni with some degree of success. With 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns', however, I think Joni's songwriting reached a point where it became almost impossible for anybody else to sing her songs effectively. Her personal stamp is so deeply and indelibly imprinted on everything she's done since then that nobody else really sounds right singing that material. So I think it would take a helluva lot of guts for a singer asked to sing at a Joni Mitchell tribute where the lady herself was going to be present to perform anything beyond Court & Spark. Kudos to Cassandra Wilson for her effort (although technically TDCFDM is not pure Joni, being half Mingus) and to Mary Chapin Carpenter & Shawn Colvin for daring to tackle Amelia. It's too bad none of the rest took the same chance. And it's also too bad that 80s & 90s Joni was not represented. Finally, I have to say that I admire the people who performed at Joni's Jazz for having the chutzpah to try and sing the songs they did. But, in my most humble opinion, from having heard the tapes, I thought they mostly did not do the material justice. The TNT performers may have played it safe for the most part, but they did manage to do passable versions of what they chose to perform (for the most part). And that (for the most part), is all I have to say about that....for now. Mark in Seattle (for the most part) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 22:42:00 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Grace In a message dated 4/19/00 8:51:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << There are some on the Fulton list that would like to see the same > tribute for Grace Slick. What do you think? I'm a big J. Airplane > fan. However, I think Joni personally had a bigger impact than did > Grace. Grace was also on the cutting edge with her music and lyrics > that rubbed some the wrong way. I liked that edge though. > > mh >> They had a tribute much like this for Grace a coule of years ago, but within a day or two none of the people who were there or performed rememberd anything about it. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 23:43:19 EDT From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: River In a message dated 4/19/00 2:46:08 PM US Central Standard Time, kate@katebennett.com writes: << Has anyone heard Holly Cole's version of River (I don't think I saw it on your compilation CD, forgive me if it was). I really like it! >> Holly Cole rules! And her cover of River is gorgeous! It's on Volume 1, which looks like this: 1. Fairport Convention - Eastern Rain 2. Fairport Convention - Marcie 3. Fairport Convention - Chelsea Morning 4. Fairport Convention - I Don't Know Where I Stand 5. Fairport Convention - Night In The City 6. Fairport Convention - Woodstock (live) 7. Fairport Convention - Both Sides Now (live) 8. Tim Curry - Cold Blue Steel and Sweet Fire 9. Caroline Lavelle - A Case of You 10. Cleo Laine - Both Sides Now 11. Cassandra Wilson - Black Crow 12. Betty Buckley - River 13. Betty Buckley - A Case of You 14. Bonnie Raitt - That Song About The Midway 15. Holly Cole - River 16. Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Woodstock (alternate version) 17. Phoebe Snow - A Case of You 18. Dan Fogelberg - Nexus (Joni on backing vocal) Holly also gets EXTREME bonus points for doing a whole record of Tom Waits covers! When's the whole record of Joni covers coming out Holly? :~) Bob NP: The Beatles, "Nowhere Man" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #150 ********************************* ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?