From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #87 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, March 4 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 087 Ashara has set up a "Wally Breese Memorial Fund," with all donations going directly into the upkeep of the JoniMitchell.com website. Wally kept the website going with his own funds, and it will now be up to Jim to continue. If you would like to donate to this fund, please make all checks payable to: Jim Johanson and send them to: Ashara Stansfield P.O. Box 215 Topsfield, MA 01983 USA ------- The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage can be found at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni in the UK times.... [Marian ] Re: Julia Fordham (Klein and minor JC) ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni in the UK times.... [catman ] BSN on BBC ["Paul Castle" ] Both Sides Now [Linda Worster ] Re: "Standard" edition of BSN - what does it look like? [Jerry Notaro ] Re: The Times Article - read it here ["Reuben Bell" ] the Joni Mitchell Companion [M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\))] J Fordham SJC [KJHSF@aol.com] The Next Album.... ["Jamie Zubairi" ] Re: J Fordham SJC [Don Rowe ] Both Sides Reviewed in People Magazine (w/picture) [mann@chicagonet.net] Repeat Showing of California Rock (Henry Diltz show)on Saturday Afternoon [mann@chicagonet.] Joni's voice "drop" is not that great [Louis Lynch ] Billboard Magazine and Joni [mann@chicagonet.net] Billboard Magazine and Joni [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: the Joni Mitchell Companion [David Wright ] Re: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Sorry for the Triple Post...had problems [mann@chicagonet.net] Billboard Magazine's Back Cover of Joni on Ebay [mann@chicagonet.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:13:21 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: Joni in the UK times.... CaTGirl627 wrote: > Hey gang, > I just ordered the newspaper from that site Leslie > menitoned. I don't know the diff between lbs and > dollars so I hope 18 lbs is not a ton of money!! They wanted 30 lbs to send it to Europe! Which is outrageous. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 01:21:08 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Julia Fordham (Klein and minor JC) Mr. Rowe's new tag line reads: > "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop >dreaming of the comfort of strangers." > -- Julia Fordham One of my favorite songs and one of my favorite artists. This one's for you, Don. I broke a date to finally get to see her for the first time tonight at the little Largo club here. She is astounding - 1000% better live than on record and that is rare. I planted myself at the bar and immediately noticed Larry Klein dining alone a few feet away and then he disappeared. Right before she came on stage, I ran outside for a last cigarette and saw Klein coming up the sidewalk. I addressed him as (swear to God) *Mr.* Klein (the Peter Erskine "incident" has made me more formal these days, ahem) and congratulated him on the BSN album and gave him my best. He was very kind and shook my hand and thanked me. I was tempted to ask for an autograph for the *other* Larry Klein but got too shy ;-) Julia played almost all new material which is really good except for just one number which I thought was too '70s Vegas style for her. She does best when she sticks to her own unique style, IMO. She amazed everyone with her vocal range - she can go from low, low smoky alto to Minnie Ripperton soprano in less than a second. When she is singing her presence is very ethereal but her stage patter in between songs was the pure incarnation of Tracy Ullman in both her accent (are they from the same area in England?) and in her funny faces and comedic delivery. She is non-stop hilarious and entertaining. Around about the fourth song she said that she wanted to introduce "a VERY special musician who we are so lucky to join us tonight." Klein made his way up to the stage. She raved about him as he set up. Then for some reason, things weren't plugging in right for him and everything he plugged in gave awful feedback so she started teasing him unmercilessly. But then she said "he has produced me and Joan and he is the number one bass player in the world." She also talked about their first meeting - "Joni.. Joni Mitchell came up to me and said my husband LOVES you. I was going 'gaaagaaagaaaahhh' - all goofy - this is my heroine - I was just like 'gaaaaah.' Then Joni Mitchell's husband, Klein, said he'd like to produce me and I was just 'GAAAAHHH.'" She went on to tell about their first session and it was clear that she thinks the whole world of Klein and Joni. By now Klein was up and running and they went on to do a few songs - the first one was titled "Lucky Guy." Everyone around me was knocked out and buzzing about Klein's performance. The "awe" factor rose considerably in the room from that point on and Julia started sucking the air out of the place on song after song. Klein then departed the stage and ended up right next to me slouched over the bar, head resting in hand. I did not speak to him any further but it was really neat with him nearby while myself and everyone were becoming increasingly entranced with her performance. After a long set of new songs, she ended with a perfect rendition of her older, well-known "Happy Ever After" that had me in tears. After several standing ovations, she came back and did three or four more songs (including Ripperton's "Loving You") that just finished us all off. Klein appeared just as knocked out as the rest of us. Even the overworked and somewhat grumpy bartender suddenly grew a big grin and was positively floating behind the bar. I always knew she was good but now I'm convinced that she is truly one of the rare heavyweights out there. No hype - go see her if you can. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:38:09 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni in the UK times.... oh dear 18 pounds is a ton of money! about $30! CaTGirl627@aol.com wrote: > Hey gang, > > I just ordered the newspaper from that site Leslie menitoned. I don't know > the diff between lbs and dollars so I hope 18 lbs is not a ton of money!! > This is what they sent me... > Catgirl (look below) > ps thanks Leslie!!! > Dear Debra, > > Unfortunately you have selected the U.K. delivery, not U.S.A. There is a > cheaper option for the U.S. as you only require the magazine which has the > article on Joni Mitchell the charge will be £3.00 for the magazine and > £15.00 for delivery. Please confirm these charges are OK and we will process > your order. > > Kind regards, > > Rupert Godden - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 10:38:25 -0500 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: BSN on BBC Praise Be! Nothing beats hearing Joni on the radio. It's coming up to 10am here on a bright Friday morning following a wild rainy night. Sitting here in my little home office, with its window looking out across the rooftops and back gardens of North London, working away intently at the computer, with the radio on in the background for company. Catching the words "Joni Mitchell", I spin round and turn it up. ".....the winner of our quiz gets a copy of our 'Album of the Week', 'Both Sides Now', of which we are very very fond. Here's the title track...." Oh my God! It feels like the whole country stops. Frozen. Everywhere background music becomes foreground music - traffic stands still as lights change to green - factory and warehouse workers look up from their daydreams - computer keyboard clatter stops mid-sentence - and here comes Wayne's solo - Oh my God! A nation weeps. By Jove, I needed that! PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 08:38:58 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Both Sides Now Joni has done it for me again. From the first listen, I LOVED it (which is unusual for me... I don't usually like albums first time out). The sensitivity and honesty of her voice on this album is better than ever. She reveals so much understanding and experience in this album. Her voice has so many layers... such emotional integrity... so many colors and textures. Every note is true- smack ON the pitch. Maybe that's why she is so comforting to me... I feel like I can really RELAX when she is singing because she doesn't strain- she relaxes. I've not been a fan of standards in the past... so a lot of this music is new to me- or I've only heard it a couple of times. My favorites are "At Last", "You've Changed", "Answer Me, My Love", "Sometimes I'm Happy", "I Wish I were in Love Again", ACOY and BSN. I'm delighted to hear her in yet another musical form. This is something I love so much about Joni- she keeps changing. I can't wait to hear what she'll come up with next. I feel like I am getting a great singing lesson from listening to this album. For example... her delivery of the first verse of "You've Changed"... Her phrasing is so great... the way she says "you're breaking my heart" on that verse makes me weep every time. That's just one example among so many. Like many singers as they get older, I find I don't have as much power and range... and Joni teaches me some new, creative methods of dealing with that dilemna. Then..... there's "A Case of You" and "Both Sides, Now". To have heard these songs as the masterpieces they are- in their earlier incarnations so many years ago... and to have loved them for their wisdom and heart all this time... and now to hear them from the mature Joni who KNOWS their truth- has more experience to sing them..... this is pure joy for me. Her honesty is inspiring. BSN was one of my father's favorites- he would always make me play it for him and then say how wise it was. To hear Joni do it in her maturity is an unbelievable joy for me. Both BSN and ACOY have the added dimension for me that I have performed them, made them my own... Especially with ACOY, people where I play often request this one. And I get to watch them SWOON over how amazing a song it is. It is almost always a show stopper. It is such a privilege to have grown up with Joni in my life for 30+ years. One of the things that thrills me the most in life is when I have the honor of being able to witness the growth of another human being- the beauty and joy of that is beyond my powers of description... Her tenacity in following her path, her muse, is- as ALWAYS- tremendously inspiring to me. I am so happy for her that she had and took advantage of the opportunity to sing with the LSO. What ecstacy for HER!!!! That she has the courage to show herself to us- over and over and over... it humbles me. She continues to restore my faith in humanity. ALL of life's experiences go into creating art and she uses them ALL. And thus... gives out a lot of permission and encouragement to the rest of us mortals. Who she IS- is constantly urging me to create and then share it... God bless you, Joni!!!! I could drink a case of you... and I would still be on my feet. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:01:45 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: "Standard" edition of BSN - what does it look like? Dmascall@aol.com wrote: > Jerry > > Here's a quick run down of the appearance. > > Front Cover - Thanks, David. BTW, does it skip? Wicked Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:08:03 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia Fordham (Klein and minor JC) <> Great review of Julia Fordham's show, as always so well-written I felt as if I was there. I was fortunate also to meet Klein after Atlanta, and he is a very gracious man. I told him that Kyle Eastwood's record was one of my faves for the year and he did a great job on it. I think he appreciated hearing that... I was working on the Covers BoxSet last night and heard Minnie Ripperton's version of "Woman of Heart & Mind". Very nice, she does hit that glass-breaking note in it and I also thought it interesting that she changes the lyric to "lay with strangers". Bob NP: Bonnie, "I Sho Do" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 09:14:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Now <> Linda, what a beautiful post! And I agree, it's like that line in "As Good As it Gets", listening to Joni makes me a better man. (I can only imagine how jerky I'd be WITHOUT her! ;~D) Bob ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 09:27:18 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Both Sides Now At 09:14 AM 03/03/2000 EST, SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > it's like that line in "As Good As it Gets", listening to Joni makes me a better man. >(I can only imagine how jerky I'd be WITHOUT her! ;~D) LOL... me too Sure is a good thing we don't have to be in world without her. I cannot even begin to count the times that Joni's music has saved me from myself! Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 07:37:27 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: The Times Article - read it here I've only had time to ready the first bit of the article, but its great. The pictures are fabulous. Joni bitches more elegantly than anyone else. You have to give her credit for not accepting the wave of "crime scene copycat" awards with gushing and subservience. She has been jilted by the media machine and has no trouble pointing that out without being totally ungrateful (and rather eloquently, I might add.) Thanks for posting this Les! Reuben >From: Les Irvin >Reply-To: Les Irvin >To: joni@smoe.org >Subject: The Times Article - read it here >Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 14:46:17 -0700 > >Joniphiles - >By popular demand, here's the hastily formatted Times article for all to >read. Three people sent me the text at about the same time and should be >commended for their work at transcribing: Philip from Ireland, Paul >Castle, and ... someone else (I'll remember who and credit you too!). The >pictures were sent by Paul. > >Thanks to you all! > >http://www.jmdl.com/articles/thetimes.htm > >Les >NP - Equation > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:02:47 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Joni Video Tape Trees Hi everyone! I'm in Portland, OR at the moment, looking at colleges with my oldest son. Since the list has been "reasonable" lately, (some have used the word "slow") I am caught up for the moment! YAY!!! (A temporary situation, I'm sure.) Anyway, I am taking advantage of a few minutes of down time to respond to some posts. Regarding tape trading, MG said to the question of: << Is this lack of reciprocity a problem? >> <> To which I reply: Great idea!! From now on, anyone that wants a video made can do both for me! ;-) (Believe me, this would be a full-time job for a multitude of people!) LOL!! Speaking of videos, when I get back home, one of my first priorities is to get the PAL version of A Day in the Garden video made up for those that want it. If you would like a PAL version of this video tape, and have NOT contacted me before about it, please let me know right away. I will be sending the original copy to CA to be transferred very soon! Also, if you want the tape tree videos (1 & 2) in PAL format, please speak up now, as I will have more made up at the same time, if enough people want it. I cannot stress enough the importance of letting me know right away, as the process of tranferring the formats is an expensive one, and the more videos I have done, the less expensive it will be for everyone! Again, and I'm sure this goes without saying, no money is made in the process of getting these videos into your hands. The charge will be whatever the cost is to make up the videos, and send them to you overseas. If anyone is interested in any, or all three of the videos with regular (US) format, please e-mail me after Sunday, March 5th, when I get back home, and I will be happy to give you all the information about how to get them. Update on Future projects: I am still working on the Jonifest video, but had to put it aside for lack of time. It is my fervent wish to get this out in the very near future. I would like to make video treees 3 & 4, (or maybe this would be 4 & 5 with the A Day in the Garden tape) sometime soon as well. If you have a decent copy of anything Joni on video that is NOT in the first 2 tape trees, and would be willing to let me borrow it for a future tape tree, please e-mail me with the following information (again, after Sunday would be great!) 1) What you have on video: Venue, list of songs, (if possible), length of video, quality of tape 2)Are you willing to send me an original copy to borrow? (Videos lose a great deal in quality every time they are copied.) 3) Please DO NOT send anything to me until I am ready to copy them! I would hate to have your originals sitting on my desk. My goal is to get them when I am ready to make a Master, and send them back right away. I know there were many people that sent originals to Barbara and Sherrie. Would those people be willing to lend me their copies?l 4) Lastly, for the whole list: These trees will be just the videos, without the fancy covers that Sherrie made up (unless someone is willing to make a Master cover that I can copy and glue on to the videos) or the fancy titles that Barabara put on the first videos. I so intently admire these two women for all they put into the first 2 video tape trees, and wish that I could follow in their footsteps, but alas, do not have the software, hardware, or expertise to do the job they have done. With that said, I am wondering, after the low response for A Day in the Garden video, how many people would truly be interested in this project? Maybe someone could come forward, and be willing to take a poll in the amount of people interested in this project, separating PAL and US versions to see if it is worth the time to put into this project. I am very willing to do it, if there is enough interest. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 11:28:53 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: Re: "Standard" edition of BSN - what does it look like? Thankfully it doesn't skip - I believe it was pressed in Germany. Hope the description wasn't too over-the-top, but I know some people get very excited about the whole package thing (not normally me though).When I worked in central London I regularly used to buy pre-recorded cassettes at HMV Oxford Street which had been reduced due to lost inserts etc. - there was an element of lucky dip in it and it meant I could buy and listen to a broader range of music as well as indulging my inner skinflint. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 08:29:46 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: My Compliments To The BSN Webcasters ... I have to say that yesterday's wonderful broadcast of BSN was one of the best, and most even-handed presentations of Joni material in memory. I had to agree right down the line with the hosts ... and I RARELY do that. Their selection of counterpoint original recordings was insightful and illuminating. I think, as they did, that Joni kind of missed the acerbic cynicism of "I Wish I Were In Love Again". Now watch me flambe as I also say that the symphonic recasting of "A Case Of You" really didn't do much for me -- it seemed lost without it's original manic energy. But on the *drop-dead* side of this coin are "Don't Go To Strangers", the wildly different moldings of 'Stormy Weather' and 'Comes Love.' (by comparison to AT&T Stormy Weather/Gershwin's World performances). And if 'A Case of You' left me cold, without a doubt, the most powerful and moving of all the rearrangements is "Both Sides Now." March 21 can't get here quite fast enough ... Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:57:19 +0000 From: M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\)) Subject: the Joni Mitchell Companion I'm enjoying the discussion about the Percy Meisel piece in the Joni Mitchell Companion. I've only just ordered my copy of this book so it'll be weeks before it arrives in the UK and by then this particular bus will have left town. First of all, is he really saying that any artist who writes down their lyrics on the album sleeve must consider themself to be a poet? Surely not. Just go and have a look at your record collections. Don't tell me all those artists with their dodgy lyrics printed, reckon they're poets. I think not. But if you love good lyrics isn't it so frustrating when they're not printed on the sleeve. Thank you Joni for printing those lyrics (what happened to Clouds though?) As for Joni's lyrics standing up as poetry in their own right, here's a little anecdote. I have just had an relative staying with me, a woman in her seventies, who reads a lot but is not really a music lover. During the week she must have found my book of Joni's Lyrics ( and Poems) . She asked me about Joni saying how lovely her poems were, she could understand them and did not find them obscure like many poems she'd read. She was astonished when I told her that Joni was more than a poet and had musical talents too! (I forgot to mention the paintings!) Dax wrote: >> Basically, he's calling her self-importa n >t >> and vain throughout the entire article. .. David Wright replied : Well, I think in her interviews she pretty well demonstrates that she is those things. Second point about Joni being vain and self-important. Well I suppose every artist who wants their work to be known must have this side to them. Otherwise they would not want anyone to see or hear their work at all, because they would not think it important enough (unless it was just for earning money). So that comment directed at Joni is facile. As for Joni's stance in interviews, she's hardly going to say that her work is unimportant. She knows her worth and she's honest. Good for her. Can't wait to read this piece in a few weeks so I'll know what I'm talking about! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:41:19 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: J Fordham SJC I'm not a big fan of Julia's, and the comparisons to Hejira are way off. My roommate has explained to me that the beauty of Fordham is that the theme of 90% of her songs is a woman mistreated and scorned who has not one ounce of pride, and carries a pleading, wounded torch forever. I am unfamiliar with her work, and therefore, can neither confirm nor deny. However, I do remember having purchased Porcelain because of a review that likened her to Joni. I am now supremely skeptical as I find that comparison overworked time and time again by critics who have never and will never comprehend the depth and breadth of Mitchell's work. By the way, does anyone have info about Joni's background vocals with Rosie Vela on a Don Henley tune from "The Color of Money". I am a Fan of Vela's, and read that she had worked with joni on that tune. Also, Steely Dan fans should check out "Zazu", Vela's album from 1987 where Becker and Fagen comprise her band along with several other great players. Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:45:32 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: The Next Album.... I was just musing on the next album and came up with a fantasy Joni League of songs that I would like to hear re-done Not in any particular order: Sweet Sucker Dance Harry's House (can you imagine the horn intro 10 times fuller and more dissonant?) Shades Of Scarlett Conquering The Last Time I Saw Richard River (a high probabilty) Little Green Edith and The Kingpin ( as a stripped down hornsy thing) A Chair In The Sky (I have just rec'd an HDCD version of Mingus so this alum is getting a lot of play after years of not being able to play the record!) Blue (can you imagine that!!!) My Secret PLace Ray's Dad's Cadillac with real horns? Only Joy In Town Song To A Seagull Much Joni Jamie Zoob NP - Put Me In THat Dungeon (Mingus Dynasty) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 12:07:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: J Fordham SJC - --- KJHSF@aol.com wrote: > However, I do > remember having purchased Porcelain because of a > review that likened her (Julia Fordham) to > Joni. Hi Ken -- I agree that comparisons to Joni, while inevitable for some strange reason, don't apply to Julia. You're quite right though -- Julia writes and sings torch songs -- interesting that this is where Joni's ended up recently. That aside, I was lucky enough to discover her on my own, and appreciate her for her own unique style and quite considerable voice. Julia herself cites Joni as a big influence, which I've always taken as a reason she much more quickly took to jazzy themes and arrangements -- she's really quite a bright person, and I think saw that in the Joni work she admired. Having them both on Kyle Eastwood's album is a treat I'm sure I'll enjoy forever. Don Rowe ===== "I want a stillness inside, and a quiet of mind, and to stop dreaming of the comfort of strangers." -- Julia Fordham __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:27:56 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Both Sides Reviewed in People Magazine (w/picture) The New People magazine (with a pretty looking Madonna on the cover), March 13th issue, page 45 under "Picks & Pans" is a big picture of Joni with the caption, "Former Folk standard-bearer Joni Mitchell sings pop standards with a new edge" Both Sides Now Joni Mitchell (Reprise) Reviewed by Steve Dougherty Fans accustomed to Joni's soaring soprano and the spare acoustic settings of her folk-rock albums are in for a shock. Here her voice has dropped an octive or so, and she sings 10 tunes from an earlier pop era (as well as two originals) as torch songs, in a husky, smoke-cured alto. With phrasings that evokes a latterday Billie Holiday, Mitchell covers such Lady Day numbers as "You're My Thrill" and "You've Changed," a desolate love-gone-dry song made sweet by accompanist Wayne Shorter's tender saxophone. In places, however, the melodramatic, string-heavy orchestrations featured on tracks like "Stormy Weather" make the songwriter, long known for her sly deconstructions of pre-rock pop styles, sound more like the kind of ermine-and-pearls lounge crooners her parents might have swooned for. While just such an overripe arrangement makes a new version of her 1971 impressionistic bar-room blues "A Case of You" (from BLUE) sound sentimental, the album highlight is a richly textured reinvention of the title tune, one of Mitchell's classic compositions. A pop hit for Judy Collins in 1968, the song is rendered here as a melancholy, middle-aged woman's rumination on the mysteries of love. Bottom Line: Folk icon tries on a new old style. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 14:50:33 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Repeat Showing of California Rock (Henry Diltz show)on Saturday Afternoon The Learning Channel (TLC) is re-running the two Rock & Roll shows that aired on Feb. 26th. California Rock: Under the Covers will re-air on March 4th at 1PM EST/P (12:00 noon here in Chicago) Rock & Roll Moments will re-air on March 4th at 2PM EST/P (1:00 pm Chicago time). Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:47:00 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great Thanks for posting the People magazine article. Pretty much typical of People magazine reviews. By the way, the article, like others states that Joni's voice has dropped an "octave or so." That's simply not true. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but I don't hear it. My friend Barby (a high soprano) noted that Joni's voice on "Both Sides Now" is only a few notes lower than her Miles of Aisles version. According to what Barby picked out on the piano, she now sings in D instead of F. That's only two notes lower. Barby said that it sounds as if Joni simply stopped using her higher range, which she explained is made similar to a male's falsetto. When Barby demonstrated it on her own voice, really, it just sounds as if Joni dropped the higher ornamentation. Joni is definitely using her lower register more, and better. But if you listen, the high notes are still there. Sometimes Joni even switches registers mid-phrase, which is a pretty awesome singing feat. I noticed that she started singing consistently lower on Night Ride Home. But if you listen to Turbulent Indigo or Taming the Tiger, she still belts out a few high notes now and again -- notes that are well above my high tenor range for sure. It would be wrong to call her an alto -- I can hit most alto notes and Joni is still well above them. Besides, there's only about an octave difference between the high soprano and a normal alto range to begin with. Compare the new Both Sides Now to a work by a truly deep-voiced vocalist (like Stevie Nicks perhaps? or Anne Murray for sure). According to Barby, Joni still has at least a solid mezzo-soprano range. All singers lose a little of their upper register as they age -- even the most technically practiced of opera singers. Technically, Joni has not lost all that much. However, the tone and texture have changed a lot. Like I said, we may be wrong, but neither Barby nor I could find more than a few notes' difference in total range over the past decades. What we have noticed is a much fuller, much more controlled low range. And there's a completely different timbre, of course, because Joni's not 20 any more. Barby bets that Joni could still squeak out the high "paved paradise" if she still wanted. Most human voices fall between a four octave range, with very rare exceptions. Men usually sing in the lower two octaves of that range and women sing in the top two octaves, with some overlap in the husky contralto and high tenor/falsetto ranges. So don't believe a reviewer who claims that someone's voice drops "an octave or two." The review hasn't done the math. It's very unlikely that any singer's voice could drop two octaves. Regards, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 22:13:48 GMT From: "Jamie Zubairi" Subject: Re: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great That's a great post and so insightful! I have noticed that Joni doesn't sing 'You've Changed' as low as Billie Holiday does in Lady In Satin. I can sing that and I'm a bass baritone. I can't sing the Joni version! So to all the critics and reviewers that thinks she's lost her voice... a big raspberry! Her voice is more like a palette than a single colour now. And not just gold and silver but deep purples... and of course turbulent indigos! :-) Much Joni Jamie Zoob ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:33:41 -0500 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: BSN Yesterday was a great Joni day. Thanks to everyone who help get that Times interview on line, I enjoyed it immensely. Also I'm happy to say I've had a huge turnaround in my feelings for BSN after listening to it on British radio. Though the sound was pour, hearing the CD in it's entirety changed my appreciation for BSN which I'm now very happy to say I thoroughly enjoyed. My first unfavourable reaction was fuelled, I'm sorry to say, by listening only to sounds bytes from CDNow. I'm still going to wait for the standard version to come out at the end of March but now I'm really looking forward to it. Did anyone notice the similarities to "Answer Me, My Love" and the Beatles song "Yesterday"? I had heard Paul say that the song came to him in a dream but after hearing AMML I suspect that Paul might have heard it somewhere and then subconsciously wrote Yesterday. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:41:13 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Billboard Magazine and Joni Randy, Thanks so much for posting this information. I picked-up an issue at Tower Records this morning because of your post. (Hey, and it was free with my Tower Records cash card I got from Freeride!! "woohoo" as Catgirl would say) It is a great picture of Joni........and because it's a small poster size would even look good framed! Thanks again for your sharp eyes. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 16:43:17 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Billboard Magazine and Joni Randy, Thanks so much for posting this information. I picked-up an issue at Tower Records this morning because of your post. (Hey, and it was free with my Tower Records cash card I got from Freeride!! "woohoo" as Catgirl would say) It is a great picture of Joni........and because it's a small poster size would even look good framed! Thanks again for your sharp eyes. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:49:24 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: the Joni Mitchell Companion Mike Quinn wrote: > I'm enjoying the discussion about the Percy Meisel piece in the Joni > Mitchell Companion. I've only just ordered my copy of this book so it'll > be weeks before it arrives in the UK and by then this particular bus > will have left town. Hello Mike. You can read the Meisel article at www.jmdl.com in the reviews section if you have web access. > First of all, is he really saying that any artist who writes down their > lyrics on the album sleeve must consider themself to be a poet? No, I don't think he is saying that. The exact quote is that Joni "has always tried to pass herself off as a poet" -- yeah, I know, ouch! -- "by printing out her lyrics on the covers of her recordings. No mere listening aids, the printouts constitute a tacit commitment to the perils of scrutiny and rereading." But, again, he's drawing a distinction here between Joni's words as poetry (printed) and as song lyrics (sung). > Second point about Joni being vain and self-important. Well I suppose every > artist who wants their work to be known must have this side to them. > [snip] ...So that comment directed at Joni is facile. I agree that self-importance on one level is a natural artistic and human impulse, and enriches us all (e.g., I wouldn't have read the many posts I have enjoyed reading on this list if their authors didn't consider what they had to say important enough to share)....but that wasn't the sense I, or Meisel (I think), was referring to. I meant lines like "These are the clouds of Michelangelo...shine on your witness in the refuge of the roads" or "[we're] each so deep and superficial/between the forceps and the stone," or "we all live so close to that line/and so far from satisfaction" -- this pursuit of universal metaphysical Truths and all. Again, if Joni's aims weren't so ambitious, _Hejira_ probably wouldn't be the great album it is. (It might be a different kind of great album. On the other hand, if it weren't as successful as it is ambitious, it might be unbearably pretentious.) So I don't think its facile at all to say that. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 11:55:15 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great >So don't believe a reviewer who claims that someone's voice drops "an octave >or two." The review hasn't done the math. It's very unlikely that any >singer's voice could drop two octaves. I agree. I've always thought that Joni has an unusually large range in her voice, ie. she can cover several octaves with ease. She chose to use the higher end when she was younger, and now sings in the lower end. Some of this is probably due to age and the effects of smoking - and I'm speaking from personal experience here. I know I can't hit a high E like I used to, but I can reach the bottom notes more easily. But I'm sure that she could hit those notes if she wanted. Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 17:03:26 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Billboard Magazine & Joni Randy, Thanks so much for posting this information. Because of you I went to Tower Records this morning and got a copy (hey, and I got it FREE with my Tower Records cash card I got from Freeride "wooohooo" -quoting the catgirl). This is really a nice print and because it's a small poster size would look great framed!! Collectors........this is a keeper! Thanks again for those sharp eyes, Randy. I always check out the magazines table of contents and would never think to look at the back of a magazine. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:32:58 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great In a message dated 03/03/00 21:57:24 GMT Standard Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << So don't believe a reviewer who claims that someone's voice drops "an octave or two." The review hasn't done the math. It's very unlikely that any singer's voice could drop two octaves. >> What about Marianne Faithfull??! She could probably sing the bass parts in the choral society! Azeem, Still haven't laid eyes on a copy of BSN, maybe on Monday. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:32:50 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Hello In a message dated 03/03/00 00:03:14 GMT Standard Time, Siresorrow@aol.com writes in response to Catgirl: << << Last I heard she doesn't even own a computer. We should chip in and get her a WebTV >> watch this one, girl. i remember maybe two years ago someone started a thread about buying joni a computer and it got ugly quick, and the whole thing turned into a big smelly turd. but the idea is a nice one. pat >> Well, I remember that too, it did get rather out of hand. I would add, though, that until recently I subscribed to the Jill Sobule list, and the same topic came up there - and they went ahead and did it, and she was chuffed to bits! Obviously there are a lot of differences in the circumstances, principally (1) that Jill is nowhere near as wealthy as Joni, and couldn't really afford to buy herself an Imac, which is what they got her (I know Joni isn't as rolling-in-it as many, but I don't think a PC would stretch her resources too far); and (2) Jill was already a PC user and did participate in the list. Still, the fact remains that she was really touched by the gesture - and so was her mum, who also subscribes! So, who knows whether Joni would welcome such a project, but I wouldn't want to prejudge her reaction. Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:33:07 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Julia Fordham (now a little bit of JC) I well remember Julia Fordham's very first appearance on telly (on the Wogan show in, I think, 1988), and then appearing on a late night live music thing and being very impressed - and thinking she was pretty darn fanciable too! I don't listen to the first album that much, as I think Porcelain is better and Swept, the third, best of all. "Betrayed" is my favourite song, utterly gorgeous melody and brilliant lyric. It took me loads of listens to get into the fourth album, Falling Forward, but the last time I played it, it finally clicked. As far as Joni comparisons are concerned, any woman who sings her own songs is going to have some cloth-eared critic flinging that old cliche her way, and Julia's voice is very different to Joni's, much deeper for a start. And yet, there are times on Porcelain, when she's singing in her falsetto voice, that I can actually hear a shade of Joni. I think Julia's great compositional talent is in writing melodies that accommodate her huge range without sounding like she's "doing a Mariah", shoehorning the dogwhistle into every song just because she can! I saw her live a few times, in the late 80s and early 90s, and she was always good, although the venues were too big and the band a little bland. I don't have Eastwest, as I've only ever seen it on import for huge sums of money... Oh yes, the Joni content: when I blagged my way into Joni's painting exhibition in London in 1990 or 1991, one of the scattering of celebs I saw was Julia Fordham: my friend and I were observing proceedings, and we both thought that it was the first time the Js had met; they obviously hit it off, cos when Joni and her people left, Julia went with them! So I was most intrigued when Julia's next album had Larry Klein all over it! It had a stellar cast in fact: Steuart Smith (who was Shawn Colvin's lead guitarist, with Larry as bassist, for one of the best shows I've ever seen, but that's another story), Brenda Russell, Vonda Shepard, David Lasley, etc etc. Glad you enjoyed it Kakki - you've made me determined to catch her next time she plays here. Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 18:32:42 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: Covers Project Update (LONG but all Joni) In a message dated 03/03/00 00:59:57 GMT Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << Whew! This is gonna be really cool you guys! I'm assuming there's no one else out there who wants to contribute, but if there is, let me know! >> Bob, there's one that I don't see there, and it's a very good one: Mathilde Santing's version of I Had A King. I think I missed the beginning of this thread, so I'm not sure what's supposed to happen; I don't suppose there are that many people who have this track, so let me know if you'd like me to send you a tape of it - or I may be able to get Martin or Rob to put it on a CD if I ask them nicely - I'm sure that would be better, especially as my cassette deck isn't that brilliant. Cheers Azeem in London ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:14:58 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's pretty voice In a message dated 3/2/2000 10:38:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, dgrowe227@yahoo.com writes: << I think a great deal of this has to do with which entrance you used to get into the world of Joni Mitchell. Those who came in on the ground floor with STAS are usually most fond of the early, effortless soprano -- and have favorites lists quite similar to yours. >> I would like to agree with you on this but can't. I discovered Ladies of the Canyon first and then went backwards and then got into Herjira which I love lots too. I am totally crazy about her much later stuff but since I love her so much and understand how the human voice changes their is not alot I can say about it except I love Joni voice for the most part just the writing has slacked off a little for me. The music is a little different too but her voice is still hers. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:23:29 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Re: Covers Project Update (LONG but all Joni) Bob understandably exalted: > Whew! This is gonna be really cool you guys! I'm assuming there's no one else > out there who wants to contribute, but if there is, let me know! Bob, I didn't see Both Sides Now by Hole from their CD called Pretty As You Feel (I think). Unfortunately I don't own it but I heard it a few years ago and really liked it. Okay, so I'm a 50-year-old closet Hole fan but now I'm out ;-). Anyone else out there who might have access to this? Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 22:39:42 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's voice "drop" is not that great In a message dated 3/3/2000 4:57:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << So don't believe a reviewer who claims that someone's voice drops "an octave or two." The review hasn't done the math. It's very unlikely that any singer's voice could drop two octaves. Regards, Harper Lou >> Thanks for sharing that interesting informaton regarding voice registers. I know that my singing at the age of twenty was much higher then it is today. Joni's voice has not lost the quality at all and the range is obviously a natural thing to lose with age. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 19:41:08 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Re: Joni's pretty voice Catgirl said that there >is not a lot I can say about it except I love Joni voice for the most part just >the writing has slacked off a little for me. The music is a little different >too but her voice is still hers. I agree totally. Joni could sing her grocery list and I'd still enjoy it because of her voice. But here's something I was pondering today: All of the list commentary on the new BSN has related to her voice, or the music, or the production but because the material is not largely hers (or not new) there is none of the analysis that would normally accompany a new Joni release. This is probably why the list is "slow" despite being in the middle of a new release. (Of course, if you want to see a list that is suffering from a lack of new material, try checking out the Kate Bush list. I joined up a few days ago just to check it out and was amazed at the difference between that one and the JMDL. Almost every post consisted of only one short sentence or sentence fragment, most of them relating to Tori Amos!) Rick ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 21:44:28 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Sorry for the Triple Post...had problems Sorry for my triple post.............. from my end it looked like it never went thru (and a copy was never in my sent box either) so I tried sending it again and again..........then my computer crashed so I rewrote thinking it never went thru....... unaware that it had. OOPS! Laura ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Mar 2000 01:04:45 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Billboard Magazine's Back Cover of Joni on Ebay The March 4th issue of Billboard Magazine that Randy found had a picture of Joni on it's back cover is already on eBay! Here's the item number: 274820500 if you want to take a look at the picture. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=274820500 Billboard sells in the US for $5.95 Canada $6.95 UK 4.95 Japan Y2,500 (according to the front cover) Laura ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #87 ******************************** ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?