From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #79 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, February 25 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 079 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: CBC Interview/Grammy Night [FredNow@aol.com] Another BSN Review [M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\))] The Awful Truth ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #112 [catman ] Re: worried about Joni's smoking [catman ] Re: CBC Interview/Grammy Night [luvart@snet.net] Re: Give 'em Hell Joni! [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: CBC Interview/Grammy Night [Siresorrow@aol.com] RE: worried about Joni's smoking [Louis Lynch ] Re: Unsung melodies [Susan McNamara ] RE: worried about Joni's smoking ["Carver, Dax" ] RE: worried about Joni's smoking [Louis Lynch ] RE: Unsung melodies ["Carver, Dax" ] Joni's Memoirs [M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\))] Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? ["Bill Dollinger" ] RE: worried about Joni's smoking [Louis Lynch >supernatural album. first, i thought one of the things santana did that was >>brilliant was to allow the other players on his album write their own songs. Anyone else notice that a very important writer went uncredited on the tune that Dave Matthews sings, Love Of My Life, namely Johannes Brahms? It's from his 3rd Symphony, a very famous (and beautiful) melody, and Carlos and Dave ripped it! It's true that the tune is in the public domain, so it's legal, and it's also true that several pop tunes have been directly lifted from classical melodies, but it would have been nice to see something like: "based on a melody by Johannes Brahms," dontcha think? - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:56:15 +0000 From: M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\)) Subject: Another BSN Review Here is another positive review, this time from today's UK newspaper "The Independent". It comes directly after their review of the new Steely Dan album which explains the first sentence. Mike JONI MITCHELL | Both Sides Now (Reprise) Another example of the advantages of age and maturity would be Joni Mitchell's beautiful, smoky-blue vocal tones, showcased here on a song-cycle sequence of torch-songs depicting the arc of a relationship from first flirtation, through infatuation, disaffection and separation, through to anticipation of the next romance, and an acceptance of the cycle repeating itself. Backed by a 70-piece orchestra, it affords her an opportunity to tackle standards like "Don't Go To Strangers", "Stormy Weather" and "You're My Thrill" within a wider context, though as the inclusion of her own songs "A Case Of You" and "Both Sides Now" demonstrates, she's hardly a stranger to the perplexing intricacies of romance. The latter is particularly well rendered, in a reflective, autumnal reading buoyed by a Wayne Shorter soprano sax solo, one of several tasteful jazz flourishes that also includes contributions from Herbie Hancock and trumpeter Mark Isham. Vince Mendoza's arrangements are expertly done, sometimes with the expressive detail of Gil Evans, at others with the sheer romantic sweep of Miklos Rozsa, but always flexible enough to respond to the emotional needs of a particular song. A quality job all round. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:06:06 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: The Awful Truth Once you get to know us we're self-centered, egomaniacal, psychotic, and have no sense of community.:) Ken said, > Just wanted to say that this is a delightful collection > of souls and I always look forward to reading the posts. All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu near Cincinnati ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:41:49 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #112 TV118@aol.com wrote: > Wow, a lurker here, all this arguing and name calling, good heavens. > > E-bay, copyright infringements, Lord...haven't we anything else better to do. > My God we're sounding almost as bitter as Joni on Turbulent Indigo...geez. > Lets leave the accusations just like you have done..... > for the experts and concentrate on our own lives. > I think we can use a little introspection. certainly you could.then maybe you wouldn't have come out of lurkdom just to bitch. > > > I'm very turned off by having to read this petty crap and arguing. simple. delte it. I assume you think your post will be a turn on? > > > I'm glad some are still talking about the music and Joni. Whats happening to > this page? Yuck. Posts like this are yuck. Or more precisely are extremely arrogant. > > > - Tim V. - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:42:26 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: worried about Joni's smoking > Funny, because smoking is really about conformity to some > image of "cool". Bollocks!(excuse me) what twaddle. smoking is about nicotine addiction. It is hardly cool or ever was. I smoke. I smoke because I am hooked and am not willing to go thru the withdrawals having already experienced such from other substances.If you think HL is irritable now, you ain't seen me when i have gone a day without my fags! > RR > > Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > > > I certainly believe that people should smoke whenever and whereever > > they want(as long as it's not against the rules-though I think some rules are > > ridiculous,like the rules that prohibit smoking in resturaunts).However I am > > worried about Joni,the fact that she has a heavy daily smoking habit.I know > > many people who have cancer,including my sister,and my aunt died of cancer in > > March.I'd hate to see Joni get cancer,or some other major smoking related > > illness.not that smoking is the only cause of cancer.but It does increase the > > risk of cancer. - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:50:34 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: CBC Interview/Grammy Night At 04:21 AM 2/25/00 EST, FredNow@aol.com wrote: >Anyone else notice that a very important writer went uncredited on the tune >that Dave Matthews sings, Love Of My Life, namely Johannes Brahms? It's from >his 3rd Symphony, a very famous (and beautiful) melody, and Carlos and Dave >ripped it! > I love Brahms 3rd Symphony (in F major) ..... especially the poco allegretto movement! If anyone ever gets the chance, put this piece of music on your DiscMan and go for a walk on the beach. Truly moving. I have not heard this 'rip off'. I'm going to check it out :-) Here's a question: If every inspiration were noted on every piece of art (music, painting or otherwise) wouldn't that be a little over doing it? And another: Where is the line when it comes to directly plagiarizing music? It would have been nice to see "based on a melody by Johannes Brahms" :-) Heather - plagued by a questioning mind this morning :) >It's true that the tune is in the public domain, so it's legal, and it's also >true that several pop tunes have been directly lifted from classical >melodies, but it would have been nice to see something like: "based on a >melody by Johannes Brahms," dontcha think? > >-Fred > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:57:57 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Give 'em Hell Joni! In a message dated 2/24/00 7:14:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: << when I caught myself starting to write about her "incessant whining," it occurred to me it seems "incessant" to us because we are reading essentially the same interview over and over. >> i think this is a very true statement. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:24:45 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: CBC Interview/Grammy Night In a message dated 2/25/00 4:24:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, FredNow@aol.com writes: << but it would have been nice to see something like: "based on a melody by Johannes Brahms," dontcha think? >> i didn't know that it came from brahms. i liked the tune, but i dont' even have the cd case here to look at to see what they credited. i think all credits should be complete. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:18:48 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking Relayer and Catman discussed... > Funny, because smoking is really about conformity to some > image of "cool". Bollocks!(excuse me) what twaddle. smoking is about nicotine addiction. It is hardly cool or ever was. I smoke. I smoke because I am hooked and am not willing to go thru the withdrawals having already experienced such from other substances.If you think HL is irritable now, you ain't seen me when i have gone a day without my fags! Harper Lou steps out on the platform again folks. This time I'm ready to really talk about it, seriously. Pardon me, this a lot more than two-cents worth.... Like other singers addicted to nicotine, I know EXACTLY why Joni smokes cigarettes despite the fact that she sings. Nonsmokers, pay attention ... this essay explains why you sound so stupid to people who smoke. First, I agree 100% with Catman's "bollocks!" People smoke regularly because of nicotine addiction. That's the only reason -- otherwise, people would smoke in the same manner that they do other things, such as have a chocolate or drink a champagne or enjoy a cola or go out for Chinese food. Even though the ingredients in chocolate, champagne, and cola can be classified as addictive and some people do have problems with alcohol or caffeine, the addiction to nicotine is much greater and much more steady. Nicotine is one of the strongest, most addictive drugs known to science -- it affects every system in the body and dependence operates at every level. Nicotine is a powerful drug -- it changes your endorphin level and makes you feel good. Unfortunately, if you don't maintain a certain level of it, the feel-good stops and the urge-for-killing starts. Most people who smoke don't really want to smoke a pack a day or two packs a day, or whatever. Most smokers despise the continual expense and smell and inconvenience. They would love if they could enjoy a cigarette now and again -- such as after a meal or after sex, or whatever, but most simply cannot choose to do that. Withdrawal from nicotine is incredibly painful and stressful. It starts even after a few hours and if the nicotine concentration is not replenished, withdrawal continues for weeks. Smokers understand that perfectly -- they know how hard it is to stop. And, I'm totally convinced that most smokers continue to smoke not because it's cool, but it makes sense intellectually, so we feel obligated to defy the "information" fed to us from the anti-smoking world. Frankly it feels good to smoke, and it feels bad not to smoke. All the literature and "evidence" in the world are not going to change that personal, physical observation -- smokers are going to be defiant when faced with any other "information" -- it's simply not true to them. Long-term, smokers also know that not everyone succumbs to smoking-related illnesses, so the anti-smoking information seems even more flawed -- there is a perfectly good chance that a smoker can enjoy cigarettes all his or her life and not die from cancer. Intellectually, and subsconsciously, continuing to smoke is a lower risk (smarter) for a nonsmoker than attempting the painful process of quitting (not smarter). To a smoker, defying the misinformation makes sense. Joni's BSN painting of her smoking at the bar, right in front of the "No Smoking" sign says it all. Nonsmokers don't seem to understand that at all -- they come up with weak little slogans to tell us that it's not "cool" to smoke. They use photos of cute puppies with cigarettes in their mouths, thinking it's clever when it's just plain stupid in light of the facts. Nonsmokers put up "Thank you for not smoking" signs thinking that it's a matter of social manners, when most smokers would prefer to put out their cigarettes right on the stupid signs. Nonsmokers complain about their precious second-hand air, stupidly adding guilt to everything else a smoker deals with, increasing the defiance. Nonsmokers say things like "I never started, so I don't understand how hard it is to quit." That's right, nonsmokers just don't understand. The several times I tried to quit, I found that my biggest barrier to quitting was the American Cancer Society, the Department of Health and all the other organizations that spout off smarmy no-smoking literature. The toughest thing I have had to battle is the stupid anti-smoking billboards plastered all over Pennsylvania highways -- the 20-foot-tall photos of cigarettes make me crave cigarettes. I can walk through a smoky bar and not crave a cigarette -- physically I'm not addicted any more. But subconsciously, I'm still addicted, and it's that urge to feel good that makes me want to smoke. Everyone trying to tell me "smoking is bad" is exactly the reason I want to have a cigarette -- smoking felt "good" for me. Therefore, they are wrong and stupid for saying that -- and I want to prove how wrong and stupid they are by having another cigarette. Smoking is legal, yet so many people condemn it. The first natural reaction for a smoker faced with non-smoking propaganda is to light a cigarette. Because, frankly, the people who are condemning smoking really don't make any sense to a person whose thought process is linked to a nicotine level. For some reason, nonsmokers fail to recognize that smokers are dealing with a severe physical addiction and psychological dependence. And, even though they might "say" they understand -- they do things that indicate they don't. If you're trying to help someone beat a cocaine addiction, would you plaster a large photo of a pile of pure, white, beautiful, silky cocaine on the highway? Do you think you could solve the problem just by saying "Thank you for not snorting"? Duh!!! I, like most smokers, smoked for a long time, continually saying how much I really wanted to quit. Consciously, I did. Physically, I did not. Subconsciously, I defied the thought of quitting with every fiber of my being. What worked for me? The only thing so far? Fortunately, I found some sane information on Dr. Koop's web page -- the only true source of non-emotional information I ever found. It didn't cause me to stop -- it caused me to think about what I needed to do to stop and find a tool that worked for me. Vivid pictures of lungs affected by emphysema and cancer and such -- intellectually and subconsciously, they were the only "information" that was able to overrule my desire to smoke the next cigarette. I had to work at "reprogramming" myself continually with those images for weeks and weeks. I felt sick for weeks, too, so after I did quit, I relied on a few herbs and drugs and support from friends. And I still want to smoke, believe it or not. But my main point is that in order to quit, I had to do it by myself and for myself. No one else was involved in the process (except for the people I snarled at, bitched at, yelled at, and ran over with my car). I support anybody who quits smoking -- and if there is a system or device or organization out there that works consistently for other people, great! The only thing I found that worked for me was a little bit of intellectual information that finally made sense. And, so I'm going to offer a piece of advice to anyone who is worried about Joni's smoking, or anybody else's smoking. Shut up. Just shut up. It's none of your business. Words like "worry" are toxic to an addict. The only possible thing you can say to a smoker is: "Have you ever thought of quitting?" After you ask that question, there's nothing more you can say. The smoker has to answer the question. And if you don't understand that and keep on talking, you're only making the smoker want to smoke more and more and more. Off his soapbox, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:34:20 -0500 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: Unsung melodies I have compiled a list of 41 titles of Joni's that have either never been released or have been released by other artists instead of Joni herself. I know that Joni has stated that she hasn't been writing anymore songs of late. I also am aware that she doesn't feel like she can relate to her earlier writings anymore do to what she feels is the naivity she had when she wrote them. However, I would love to hear Joni sing these songs. She has enough for 4 albums! I think they would sound great with the style she used on NIGHT RIDE HOME or her new orchestra style, or a combination of both. I would love it also if URGE FOR GOING would also appear on one of these proposed albums since it only has appeared on her HITS album on not on any regular release. She could use the original version (which I love!) or re-make the song with her new style (or both!!!!!) Here are a list of the titles I know of. I don't know the lyrics to all of these songs, however 1: The Daisy Summer Piper (is this the same as The Daisy Summer?) 2: Day After Day 3: Lazy Summer 4: Little David (is this the same as Play, Little David, Play?) 5: The Wizard of Is 6: Just Like Me 7: Blue on Blue 8: Being Free (unless this is the same as "For Free" which appeared on LADIES OF THE CANYON) 9: Easter Rain 10: The Fishbowl (I have seen lyrics, but no music, so this may just be a poem; recite Joni, RECITE) 11: Winter Lady 12: Who has seen the Wind 13: Straw-Flower Me 14: Jeremy 15: Carnival in Kenora 16: A Melody in your Name 17: Moon in the Mirror 18: Poor Sad Baby 19: Ballad in Blue 20: Ballerina Valerie 21: (Born To) Take the Highway 22: Brandy Eyes 23: Cara's Castle 24: Come to the Sunshine 25: Doctor Junk (the Dentist Man) 26: Endless Summer 27: Free Darling 28: Gemini Twins 29: The Gift of the Magi 30: Go Tell the Drummer Man 31: Here Today, Gone Tomorrow 32: Hunter 33: I Won't Cry 34: Julie's Mom 35: Kelly 36: The London Bridge Song 37: The Midnight Cowboy Song 38: Mister Blue 39: Song to a Daydreamer 40: The Way It Is 41: What will you give me? I know I would definitley love to hear Joni sing her old songs. No one else really can. dax carver ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:40:58 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Unsung melodies At 10:34 AM -0500 2/25/00, Carver, Dax wrote: >8: Being Free (unless this is the same as "For Free" which appeared on >LADIES OF THE CANYON) I believe Being Free was an early title for Cactus Tree (while she was out somewhere Being Free) Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:46:45 -0500 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking As a non-smoker, I don't feel that my desire not to breathe second hand smoke has ever been self-righteous or anything other than I don't smoke and, therefore, I believe I have the right not to have to breathe it in. Despite what smokers say about physical addiction (and believe me, I truly feel for those that are physically addicted to anything) it doesn't make it right to force others to breathe in their smoke-induced air. Thank You For Not Smoking signs are polite. Owners of businesses that use this sign could ver easily use less than polite signs. I find the comments below as stereotyping all smokers into one category. Not all smokers feel like the world is against them. Not all of them would want to smash out their cigarrette buds on a non-smoking sing. This has nothing to do with physical addiction, it has to do with manners and politeness. If you were addicted to a needle induced drug, hopefully you wouldn't walk around sticking it in others just because you are physically addicted. The same goes for smoking around those who don't want to breathe it. By doing this, you are forcing those who don't smoke to have to smoke "second-handedly" which is just as bad for them. This isn't said to make anyone feel bad, it's the truth. Not everyone has all of these horrendous problems quitting either. Smokers, like all people, are not so easily defined as the posts below would indicate. I totally agree that smoking is not the cool thing to do (unless you are still in high-school). The unfortunate thing is the addiction. A lot of people start smoking from peer pressure (hence, the cool thing to do) but do not continue for this reason. They continue because of addiction. That's sad. > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Lynch [SMTP:Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:19 AM > To: 'catman'; JoniList > Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking > > Relayer and Catman discussed... > > > Funny, because smoking is really about conformity to some > > image of "cool". > > Bollocks!(excuse me) what twaddle. smoking is about nicotine addiction. It > is > hardly cool or ever was. I smoke. I smoke because I am hooked and am not > willing to > go thru the withdrawals having already experienced such from other > substances.If > you think HL is irritable now, you ain't seen me when i have gone a day > without my > fags! > > > Harper Lou steps out on the platform again folks. This time I'm ready to > really talk about it, seriously. Pardon me, this a lot more than > two-cents > worth.... > > Like other singers addicted to nicotine, I know EXACTLY why Joni smokes > cigarettes despite the fact that she sings. Nonsmokers, pay attention ... > this essay explains why you sound so stupid to people who smoke. > > First, I agree 100% with Catman's "bollocks!" People smoke regularly > because of nicotine addiction. That's the only reason -- otherwise, > people > would smoke in the same manner that they do other things, such as have a > chocolate or drink a champagne or enjoy a cola or go out for Chinese food. > > Even though the ingredients in chocolate, champagne, and cola can be > classified as addictive and some people do have problems with alcohol or > caffeine, the addiction to nicotine is much greater and much more steady. > Nicotine is one of the strongest, most addictive drugs known to science -- > it affects every system in the body and dependence operates at every > level. > > Nicotine is a powerful drug -- it changes your endorphin level and makes > you > feel good. Unfortunately, if you don't maintain a certain level of it, > the > feel-good stops and the urge-for-killing starts. > > Most people who smoke don't really want to smoke a pack a day or two packs > a > day, or whatever. Most smokers despise the continual expense and smell > and > inconvenience. They would love if they could enjoy a cigarette now and > again -- such as after a meal or after sex, or whatever, but most simply > cannot choose to do that. > > Withdrawal from nicotine is incredibly painful and stressful. It starts > even after a few hours and if the nicotine concentration is not > replenished, > withdrawal continues for weeks. > > Smokers understand that perfectly -- they know how hard it is to stop. > And, > I'm totally convinced that most smokers continue to smoke not because it's > cool, but it makes sense intellectually, so we feel obligated to defy the > "information" fed to us from the anti-smoking world. > > Frankly it feels good to smoke, and it feels bad not to smoke. All the > literature and "evidence" in the world are not going to change that > personal, physical observation -- smokers are going to be defiant when > faced > with any other "information" -- it's simply not true to them. Long-term, > smokers also know that not everyone succumbs to smoking-related illnesses, > so the anti-smoking information seems even more flawed -- there is a > perfectly good chance that a smoker can enjoy cigarettes all his or her > life > and not die from cancer. Intellectually, and subsconsciously, continuing > to > smoke is a lower risk (smarter) for a nonsmoker than attempting the > painful > process of quitting (not smarter). > > To a smoker, defying the misinformation makes sense. Joni's BSN painting > of > her smoking at the bar, right in front of the "No Smoking" sign says it > all. > > > Nonsmokers don't seem to understand that at all -- they come up with weak > little slogans to tell us that it's not "cool" to smoke. They use photos > of > cute puppies with cigarettes in their mouths, thinking it's clever when > it's > just plain stupid in light of the facts. Nonsmokers put up "Thank you for > not smoking" signs thinking that it's a matter of social manners, when > most > smokers would prefer to put out their cigarettes right on the stupid > signs. > Nonsmokers complain about their precious second-hand air, stupidly adding > guilt to everything else a smoker deals with, increasing the defiance. > Nonsmokers say things like "I never started, so I don't understand how > hard > it is to quit." That's right, nonsmokers just don't understand. > > The several times I tried to quit, I found that my biggest barrier to > quitting was the American Cancer Society, the Department of Health and all > the other organizations that spout off smarmy no-smoking literature. The > toughest thing I have had to battle is the stupid anti-smoking billboards > plastered all over Pennsylvania highways -- the 20-foot-tall photos of > cigarettes make me crave cigarettes. I can walk through a smoky bar and > not > crave a cigarette -- physically I'm not addicted any more. But > subconsciously, I'm still addicted, and it's that urge to feel good that > makes me want to smoke. Everyone trying to tell me "smoking is bad" is > exactly the reason I want to have a cigarette -- smoking felt "good" for > me. > Therefore, they are wrong and stupid for saying that -- and I want to > prove > how wrong and stupid they are by having another cigarette. > > Smoking is legal, yet so many people condemn it. The first natural > reaction > for a smoker faced with non-smoking propaganda is to light a cigarette. > Because, frankly, the people who are condemning smoking really don't make > any sense to a person whose thought process is linked to a nicotine level. > > For some reason, nonsmokers fail to recognize that smokers are dealing > with > a severe physical addiction and psychological dependence. And, even > though > they might "say" they understand -- they do things that indicate they > don't. > If you're trying to help someone beat a cocaine addiction, would you > plaster > a large photo of a pile of pure, white, beautiful, silky cocaine on the > highway? Do you think you could solve the problem just by saying "Thank > you > for not snorting"? Duh!!! > > I, like most smokers, smoked for a long time, continually saying how much > I > really wanted to quit. Consciously, I did. Physically, I did not. > Subconsciously, I defied the thought of quitting with every fiber of my > being. > > What worked for me? The only thing so far? Fortunately, I found some > sane > information on Dr. Koop's web page -- the only true source of > non-emotional > information I ever found. It didn't cause me to stop -- it caused me to > think about what I needed to do to stop and find a tool that worked for > me. > Vivid pictures of lungs affected by emphysema and cancer and such -- > intellectually and subconsciously, they were the only "information" that > was > able to overrule my desire to smoke the next cigarette. I had to work at > "reprogramming" myself continually with those images for weeks and weeks. > I > felt sick for weeks, too, so after I did quit, I relied on a few herbs and > drugs and support from friends. And I still want to smoke, believe it or > not. > > But my main point is that in order to quit, I had to do it by myself and > for > myself. No one else was involved in the process (except for the people I > snarled at, bitched at, yelled at, and ran over with my car). > > I support anybody who quits smoking -- and if there is a system or device > or > organization out there that works consistently for other people, great! > The > only thing I found that worked for me was a little bit of intellectual > information that finally made sense. > > And, so I'm going to offer a piece of advice to anyone who is worried > about > Joni's smoking, or anybody else's smoking. Shut up. Just shut up. It's > none of your business. Words like "worry" are toxic to an addict. > > The only possible thing you can say to a smoker is: "Have you ever thought > of quitting?" After you ask that question, there's nothing more you can > say. The smoker has to answer the question. > > And if you don't understand that and keep on talking, you're only making > the > smoker want to smoke more and more and more. > > Off his soapbox, > > Harper Lou > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 07:52:56 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Crosby "Ray & Cathy" write: >My favorite >cut is the first song "Music is Love"...not only was Joni's dulcimer >playing enchanting, but the song was such a collaborrative thing, Was that Joni or Laura Allen dulciming on that track? ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:03:24 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking Dax, You missed my point completely. You totally discounted what I said about the mental process of addiction -- the reason I wrote in the first place. As I said, to an addicted smoker, statements like the one you wrote simply do not make sense. True, not all smokers have the same level of addiction and some can quit more easily. But they all have one thing in common -- subconsciously something has to change the addiction. Whining about second hand smoke does just the opposite -- it reinforces the desire to smoker. Sorry, but your argument is based merely on an emotion "I don't LIKE smoke in my face." A smoker might be more courteous because of your statement -- but your second-hand dislike does not change the fact that the smoker wants to smoke. I was a very courteous smoker and respectful of nonsmokers. But that courtesy was linked to my personality, not to my subconscious addiction. My point was: to a mind addicted to nicotine, the emotional/social arguments of nonsmokers sound really stupid. Everything you wrote confirms what I said. You just don't understand. Try to dismiss the emotions you're feeling and re-read what I wrote. I'm standing firm on this one. Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: Carver, Dax [mailto:DC200009@Exchange.AtlantaGA.NCR.com] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:47 AM To: Louis Lynch; 'catman'; JoniList Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking As a non-smoker, I don't feel that my desire not to breathe second hand smoke has ever been self-righteous or anything other than I don't smoke and, therefore, I believe I have the right not to have to breathe it in. Despite what smokers say about physical addiction (and believe me, I truly feel for those that are physically addicted to anything) it doesn't make it right to force others to breathe in their smoke-induced air. Thank You For Not Smoking signs are polite. Owners of businesses that use this sign could ver easily use less than polite signs. I find the comments below as stereotyping all smokers into one category. Not all smokers feel like the world is against them. Not all of them would want to smash out their cigarrette buds on a non-smoking sing. This has nothing to do with physical addiction, it has to do with manners and politeness. If you were addicted to a needle induced drug, hopefully you wouldn't walk around sticking it in others just because you are physically addicted. The same goes for smoking around those who don't want to breathe it. By doing this, you are forcing those who don't smoke to have to smoke "second-handedly" which is just as bad for them. This isn't said to make anyone feel bad, it's the truth. Not everyone has all of these horrendous problems quitting either. Smokers, like all people, are not so easily defined as the posts below would indicate. I totally agree that smoking is not the cool thing to do (unless you are still in high-school). The unfortunate thing is the addiction. A lot of people start smoking from peer pressure (hence, the cool thing to do) but do not continue for this reason. They continue because of addiction. That's sad. > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Lynch [SMTP:Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:19 AM > To: 'catman'; JoniList > Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking > > Relayer and Catman discussed... > > > Funny, because smoking is really about conformity to some > > image of "cool". > > Bollocks!(excuse me) what twaddle. smoking is about nicotine addiction. It > is > hardly cool or ever was. I smoke. I smoke because I am hooked and am not > willing to > go thru the withdrawals having already experienced such from other > substances.If > you think HL is irritable now, you ain't seen me when i have gone a day > without my > fags! > > > Harper Lou steps out on the platform again folks. This time I'm ready to > really talk about it, seriously. Pardon me, this a lot more than > two-cents > worth.... > > Like other singers addicted to nicotine, I know EXACTLY why Joni smokes > cigarettes despite the fact that she sings. Nonsmokers, pay attention ... > this essay explains why you sound so stupid to people who smoke. > > First, I agree 100% with Catman's "bollocks!" People smoke regularly > because of nicotine addiction. That's the only reason -- otherwise, > people > would smoke in the same manner that they do other things, such as have a > chocolate or drink a champagne or enjoy a cola or go out for Chinese food. > > Even though the ingredients in chocolate, champagne, and cola can be > classified as addictive and some people do have problems with alcohol or > caffeine, the addiction to nicotine is much greater and much more steady. > Nicotine is one of the strongest, most addictive drugs known to science -- > it affects every system in the body and dependence operates at every > level. > > Nicotine is a powerful drug -- it changes your endorphin level and makes > you > feel good. Unfortunately, if you don't maintain a certain level of it, > the > feel-good stops and the urge-for-killing starts. > > Most people who smoke don't really want to smoke a pack a day or two packs > a > day, or whatever. Most smokers despise the continual expense and smell > and > inconvenience. They would love if they could enjoy a cigarette now and > again -- such as after a meal or after sex, or whatever, but most simply > cannot choose to do that. > > Withdrawal from nicotine is incredibly painful and stressful. It starts > even after a few hours and if the nicotine concentration is not > replenished, > withdrawal continues for weeks. > > Smokers understand that perfectly -- they know how hard it is to stop. > And, > I'm totally convinced that most smokers continue to smoke not because it's > cool, but it makes sense intellectually, so we feel obligated to defy the > "information" fed to us from the anti-smoking world. > > Frankly it feels good to smoke, and it feels bad not to smoke. All the > literature and "evidence" in the world are not going to change that > personal, physical observation -- smokers are going to be defiant when > faced > with any other "information" -- it's simply not true to them. Long-term, > smokers also know that not everyone succumbs to smoking-related illnesses, > so the anti-smoking information seems even more flawed -- there is a > perfectly good chance that a smoker can enjoy cigarettes all his or her > life > and not die from cancer. Intellectually, and subsconsciously, continuing > to > smoke is a lower risk (smarter) for a nonsmoker than attempting the > painful > process of quitting (not smarter). > > To a smoker, defying the misinformation makes sense. Joni's BSN painting > of > her smoking at the bar, right in front of the "No Smoking" sign says it > all. > > > Nonsmokers don't seem to understand that at all -- they come up with weak > little slogans to tell us that it's not "cool" to smoke. They use photos > of > cute puppies with cigarettes in their mouths, thinking it's clever when > it's > just plain stupid in light of the facts. Nonsmokers put up "Thank you for > not smoking" signs thinking that it's a matter of social manners, when > most > smokers would prefer to put out their cigarettes right on the stupid > signs. > Nonsmokers complain about their precious second-hand air, stupidly adding > guilt to everything else a smoker deals with, increasing the defiance. > Nonsmokers say things like "I never started, so I don't understand how > hard > it is to quit." That's right, nonsmokers just don't understand. > > The several times I tried to quit, I found that my biggest barrier to > quitting was the American Cancer Society, the Department of Health and all > the other organizations that spout off smarmy no-smoking literature. The > toughest thing I have had to battle is the stupid anti-smoking billboards > plastered all over Pennsylvania highways -- the 20-foot-tall photos of > cigarettes make me crave cigarettes. I can walk through a smoky bar and > not > crave a cigarette -- physically I'm not addicted any more. But > subconsciously, I'm still addicted, and it's that urge to feel good that > makes me want to smoke. Everyone trying to tell me "smoking is bad" is > exactly the reason I want to have a cigarette -- smoking felt "good" for > me. > Therefore, they are wrong and stupid for saying that -- and I want to > prove > how wrong and stupid they are by having another cigarette. > > Smoking is legal, yet so many people condemn it. The first natural > reaction > for a smoker faced with non-smoking propaganda is to light a cigarette. > Because, frankly, the people who are condemning smoking really don't make > any sense to a person whose thought process is linked to a nicotine level. > > For some reason, nonsmokers fail to recognize that smokers are dealing > with > a severe physical addiction and psychological dependence. And, even > though > they might "say" they understand -- they do things that indicate they > don't. > If you're trying to help someone beat a cocaine addiction, would you > plaster > a large photo of a pile of pure, white, beautiful, silky cocaine on the > highway? Do you think you could solve the problem just by saying "Thank > you > for not snorting"? Duh!!! > > I, like most smokers, smoked for a long time, continually saying how much > I > really wanted to quit. Consciously, I did. Physically, I did not. > Subconsciously, I defied the thought of quitting with every fiber of my > being. > > What worked for me? The only thing so far? Fortunately, I found some > sane > information on Dr. Koop's web page -- the only true source of > non-emotional > information I ever found. It didn't cause me to stop -- it caused me to > think about what I needed to do to stop and find a tool that worked for > me. > Vivid pictures of lungs affected by emphysema and cancer and such -- > intellectually and subconsciously, they were the only "information" that > was > able to overrule my desire to smoke the next cigarette. I had to work at > "reprogramming" myself continually with those images for weeks and weeks. > I > felt sick for weeks, too, so after I did quit, I relied on a few herbs and > drugs and support from friends. And I still want to smoke, believe it or > not. > > But my main point is that in order to quit, I had to do it by myself and > for > myself. No one else was involved in the process (except for the people I > snarled at, bitched at, yelled at, and ran over with my car). > > I support anybody who quits smoking -- and if there is a system or device > or > organization out there that works consistently for other people, great! > The > only thing I found that worked for me was a little bit of intellectual > information that finally made sense. > > And, so I'm going to offer a piece of advice to anyone who is worried > about > Joni's smoking, or anybody else's smoking. Shut up. Just shut up. It's > none of your business. Words like "worry" are toxic to an addict. > > The only possible thing you can say to a smoker is: "Have you ever thought > of quitting?" After you ask that question, there's nothing more you can > say. The smoker has to answer the question. > > And if you don't understand that and keep on talking, you're only making > the > smoker want to smoke more and more and more. > > Off his soapbox, > > Harper Lou > > > > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:08:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Unsung melodies : Just Like Me 7: Blue on Blue 9: Easter Rain (actually is EasterN Rain) 10: The Fishbowl (This is INDEED a read Poem) 11: Winter Lady 15: Carnival in Kenora 16: A Melody in your Name 20: Ballerina Valerie 21: (Born To) Take the Highway 22: Brandy Eyes 24: Come to the Sunshine 25: Doctor Junk (the Dentist Man) 29: The Gift of the Magi 30: Go Tell the Drummer Man 32: Hunter 36: The London Bridge Song 38: Mister Blue 40: The Way It Is All of these songs ( I deleted some) are available through the Tape & CD Trees and other collections that have been offered up to this community. They ARE wonderful to hear, and I'd love to hear the other ones you mention too! Maybe someday... Bob NP: Glenn Miller, "Moonlight Serenade" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:11:01 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: worried about Joni's smoking My husband has quit every drug from alcohol to heroin. He has been clean and sober for 15 years. He takes vitamins and believes in preventative health. He has tried to quit smoking numerous times (believe me, it is no fun for me when he does, I've endured loots of 'bad days') He has even been successful for as long as 6 months. He still smokes - coughs every morning - has given up, like Joni "Carver, Dax" wrote: > A lot of people start smoking from peer pressure (hence, the cool thing to > do) but do > not continue for this reason. They continue because of addiction. That's > sad. - -- Phyliss Golden Fig Ceramics http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:16:24 -0500 From: "Carver, Dax" Subject: RE: Unsung melodies Do you think there's a way to convince Joni to record these? It would be wonderful! > -----Original Message----- > From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com [SMTP:SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 11:09 AM > To: DC200009@exchange.atlantaga.ncr.com > Cc: Joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Unsung melodies > > : Just Like Me > 7: Blue on Blue > 9: Easter Rain (actually is EasterN Rain) > 10: The Fishbowl (This is INDEED a read Poem) > 11: Winter Lady > 15: Carnival in Kenora > 16: A Melody in your Name > 20: Ballerina Valerie > 21: (Born To) Take the Highway > 22: Brandy Eyes > 24: Come to the Sunshine > 25: Doctor Junk (the Dentist Man) > 29: The Gift of the Magi > 30: Go Tell the Drummer Man > 32: Hunter > 36: The London Bridge Song > 38: Mister Blue > 40: The Way It Is > > All of these songs ( I deleted some) are available through the Tape & CD > Trees and other collections that have been offered up to this community. > They ARE wonderful to hear, and I'd love to hear the other ones you > mention too! Maybe someday... > > Bob > > NP: Glenn Miller, "Moonlight Serenade" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 16:18:17 +0000 From: M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\)) Subject: Joni's Memoirs I have just found the following two book descriptions on Amazon.co.uk 1) Autobiography Joni Mitchell Special Order Hardcover - (December 2000) 252 pages Synopsis This autobiography of Joni Mitchell covers both her personal and professional life. It details her poor upbringing, the joy of her first hit record, how she gave up her daughter for adoption when she was 21, her love affairs with people such as Neil Young, and the stories behind her song lyrics. 2) Memoir Joni Mitchell Not Yet Published Paperback - (31 December, 2000) Anyone know any more about this? I know Joni has mentioned writing her memoirs before but I didn't realise they were at this stage. Just imagine we have 252 pages of delight to look forward to! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 11:26:30 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? My favorite Carly albums are Boys in the Trees Hotcakes Another Passenger Spy Bill - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 12:00 PM Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? > Mark in Seattle Wrote: > > 'Another Passenger' is one of Carly's best imo. I never thought that > 'Dishonest Modesty' had anything to do with Joni. Great song, though. > Wickedly witty lyrics. > > Mark in Seattle > > Anybody think this is about Joni? I can't see Carly being that > mean-spirited but who knows? > > RikyRacer Responds: > > Amen, Mark. This is the best CS album since Anticipation imo and is the last of her best. One very, very cool song is Libby and no, I have never heard that Dishonest Modesty is about JM. Even though she disclaims Fairweather Father is about JT, Do we really believe her? Do we dare to start the rumors about You're So Vain, AGAIN? > > RikyRacer in Hollywood ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:24:43 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking Actually, Dax, I found the entire tone of your original e-mail to be rude and self-righteous. This last one is even more insulting. You're trying to make me feel guilty about a 3-year-old child I don't know. Sorry, buddy, you can keep your guilt. I NEVER said that nonsmokers were "stupid." I said their arguments sounded "stupid" to a smoker's addicted brain. It's an indisputable fact that nonsmokers are smart for never starting. Duh! I'm sorry about your mother's loss. My mother died of smoke-induced cancer, too. Believe me, I wrote to try to explain to nonsmokers why your attitudes don't work with smokers. But, by all means, you are free to hold onto whatever attitude you like. I'm still standing firm on this one -- the discussion is about Joni's smoking. As a professional singer who smoked all my adult like, I affirm that I can relate. If you learn something from my comments, fine. If not, fine again. Harper Lou - -----Original Message----- From: Carver, Dax [mailto:DC200009@Exchange.AtlantaGA.NCR.com] Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 11:14 AM To: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking addiction does not justify rudeness, crassness or attacking someone because they don't want smoke down their throat (the in my face thing isn't what bothers me). Also, it doesn't justify the use of the word "stupid" when referring to non-smokers. I definitely never called smokers stupid or their feelings. I very much understand. I have kicked a mulititude of habits that I fealt were distructive to me. It was very very hard to do. You can't say I don't understand, you don't know me or my circumstances. I didn't see any point to your comments. Step away emotionally and read my comments. Step away and read the comments of someone who doesn't want their 3 year old nephew to have to breathe in the smoke that his step-father blows in his face uncaringly. Step away and read the comments of a person whose mother has just lost her closest friend to smoke-induced lung cancer. Sentimental, yes, but also true. You say nonsmokers refuse to see your point, it works both ways. I never made a single comment in my statements that was rude, self-righteous accusational. I never called those who smoke stupid. I never attacked. > -----Original Message----- > From: Louis Lynch [SMTP:Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 11:03 AM > To: 'Carver, Dax'; Louis Lynch; 'catman'; JoniList > Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking > > Dax, > > You missed my point completely. You totally discounted what I said about > the mental process of addiction -- the reason I wrote in the first place. > > As I said, to an addicted smoker, statements like the one you wrote simply > do not make sense. > > True, not all smokers have the same level of addiction and some can quit > more easily. But they all have one thing in common -- subconsciously > something has to change the addiction. Whining about second hand smoke > does > just the opposite -- it reinforces the desire to smoker. > > Sorry, but your argument is based merely on an emotion "I don't LIKE smoke > in my face." A smoker might be more courteous because of your statement > -- > but your second-hand dislike does not change the fact that the smoker > wants > to smoke. I was a very courteous smoker and respectful of nonsmokers. > But > that courtesy was linked to my personality, not to my subconscious > addiction. > > My point was: to a mind addicted to nicotine, the emotional/social > arguments > of nonsmokers sound really stupid. Everything you wrote confirms what I > said. You just don't understand. Try to dismiss the emotions you're > feeling and re-read what I wrote. > > I'm standing firm on this one. > > Harper Lou > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Carver, Dax [mailto:DC200009@Exchange.AtlantaGA.NCR.com] > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:47 AM > To: Louis Lynch; 'catman'; JoniList > Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking > > > As a non-smoker, I don't feel that my desire not to breathe second hand > smoke has ever been self-righteous or anything other than I don't smoke > and, > therefore, I believe I have the right not to have to breathe it in. > Despite > what smokers say about physical addiction (and believe me, I truly feel > for > those that are physically addicted to anything) it doesn't make it right > to > force others to breathe in their smoke-induced air. Thank You For Not > Smoking signs are polite. Owners of businesses that use this sign could > ver > easily use less than polite signs. > > I find the comments below as stereotyping all smokers into one category. > Not all smokers feel like the world is against them. Not all of them > would > want to smash out their cigarrette buds on a non-smoking sing. This has > nothing to do with physical addiction, it has to do with manners and > politeness. If you were addicted to a needle induced drug, hopefully you > wouldn't walk around sticking it in others just because you are physically > addicted. The same goes for smoking around those who don't want to > breathe > it. By doing this, you are forcing those who don't smoke to have to smoke > "second-handedly" which is just as bad for them. This isn't said to make > anyone feel bad, it's the truth. > > Not everyone has all of these horrendous problems quitting either. > Smokers, > like all people, are not so easily defined as the posts below would > indicate. > > I totally agree that smoking is not the cool thing to do (unless you are > still in high-school). The unfortunate thing is the addiction. A lot of > people start smoking from peer pressure (hence, the cool thing to do) but > do > not continue for this reason. They continue because of addiction. That's > sad. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Louis Lynch [SMTP:Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com] > > Sent: Friday, February 25, 2000 10:19 AM > > To: 'catman'; JoniList > > Subject: RE: worried about Joni's smoking > > > > Relayer and Catman discussed... > > > > > Funny, because smoking is really about conformity to some > > > image of "cool". > > > > Bollocks!(excuse me) what twaddle. smoking is about nicotine addiction. > It > > is > > hardly cool or ever was. I smoke. I smoke because I am hooked and am not > > willing to > > go thru the withdrawals having already experienced such from other > > substances.If > > you think HL is irritable now, you ain't seen me when i have gone a day > > without my > > fags! > > > > > > Harper Lou steps out on the platform again folks. This time I'm ready > to > > really talk about it, seriously. Pardon me, this a lot more than > > two-cents > > worth.... > > > > Like other singers addicted to nicotine, I know EXACTLY why Joni smokes > > cigarettes despite the fact that she sings. Nonsmokers, pay attention > ... > > this essay explains why you sound so stupid to people who smoke. > > > > First, I agree 100% with Catman's "bollocks!" People smoke regularly > > because of nicotine addiction. That's the only reason -- otherwise, > > people > > would smoke in the same manner that they do other things, such as have a > > chocolate or drink a champagne or enjoy a cola or go out for Chinese > food. > > > > Even though the ingredients in chocolate, champagne, and cola can be > > classified as addictive and some people do have problems with alcohol or > > caffeine, the addiction to nicotine is much greater and much more > steady. > > Nicotine is one of the strongest, most addictive drugs known to science > -- > > it affects every system in the body and dependence operates at every > > level. > > > > Nicotine is a powerful drug -- it changes your endorphin level and makes > > you > > feel good. Unfortunately, if you don't maintain a certain level of it, > > the > > feel-good stops and the urge-for-killing starts. > > > > Most people who smoke don't really want to smoke a pack a day or two > packs > > a > > day, or whatever. Most smokers despise the continual expense and smell > > and > > inconvenience. They would love if they could enjoy a cigarette now and > > again -- such as after a meal or after sex, or whatever, but most simply > > cannot choose to do that. > > > > Withdrawal from nicotine is incredibly painful and stressful. It starts > > even after a few hours and if the nicotine concentration is not > > replenished, > > withdrawal continues for weeks. > > > > Smokers understand that perfectly -- they know how hard it is to stop. > > And, > > I'm totally convinced that most smokers continue to smoke not because > it's > > cool, but it makes sense intellectually, so we feel obligated to defy > the > > "information" fed to us from the anti-smoking world. > > > > Frankly it feels good to smoke, and it feels bad not to smoke. All the > > literature and "evidence" in the world are not going to change that > > personal, physical observation -- smokers are going to be defiant when > > faced > > with any other "information" -- it's simply not true to them. > Long-term, > > smokers also know that not everyone succumbs to smoking-related > illnesses, > > so the anti-smoking information seems even more flawed -- there is a > > perfectly good chance that a smoker can enjoy cigarettes all his or her > > life > > and not die from cancer. Intellectually, and subsconsciously, > continuing > > to > > smoke is a lower risk (smarter) for a nonsmoker than attempting the > > painful > > process of quitting (not smarter). > > > > To a smoker, defying the misinformation makes sense. Joni's BSN > painting > > of > > her smoking at the bar, right in front of the "No Smoking" sign says it > > all. > > > > > > Nonsmokers don't seem to understand that at all -- they come up with > weak > > little slogans to tell us that it's not "cool" to smoke. They use > photos > > of > > cute puppies with cigarettes in their mouths, thinking it's clever when > > it's > > just plain stupid in light of the facts. Nonsmokers put up "Thank you > for > > not smoking" signs thinking that it's a matter of social manners, when > > most > > smokers would prefer to put out their cigarettes right on the stupid > > signs. > > Nonsmokers complain about their precious second-hand air, stupidly > adding > > guilt to everything else a smoker deals with, increasing the defiance. > > Nonsmokers say things like "I never started, so I don't understand how > > hard > > it is to quit." That's right, nonsmokers just don't understand. > > > > The several times I tried to quit, I found that my biggest barrier to > > quitting was the American Cancer Society, the Department of Health and > all > > the other organizations that spout off smarmy no-smoking literature. > The > > toughest thing I have had to battle is the stupid anti-smoking > billboards > > plastered all over Pennsylvania highways -- the 20-foot-tall photos of > > cigarettes make me crave cigarettes. I can walk through a smoky bar and > > not > > crave a cigarette -- physically I'm not addicted any more. But > > subconsciously, I'm still addicted, and it's that urge to feel good that > > makes me want to smoke. Everyone trying to tell me "smoking is bad" is > > exactly the reason I want to have a cigarette -- smoking felt "good" for > > me. > > Therefore, they are wrong and stupid for saying that -- and I want to > > prove > > how wrong and stupid they are by having another cigarette. > > > > Smoking is legal, yet so many people condemn it. The first natural > > reaction > > for a smoker faced with non-smoking propaganda is to light a cigarette. > > Because, frankly, the people who are condemning smoking really don't > make > > any sense to a person whose thought process is linked to a nicotine > level. > > > > For some reason, nonsmokers fail to recognize that smokers are dealing > > with > > a severe physical addiction and psychological dependence. And, even > > though > > they might "say" they understand -- they do things that indicate they > > don't. > > If you're trying to help someone beat a cocaine addiction, would you > > plaster > > a large photo of a pile of pure, white, beautiful, silky cocaine on the > > highway? Do you think you could solve the problem just by saying "Thank > > you > > for not snorting"? Duh!!! > > > > I, like most smokers, smoked for a long time, continually saying how > much > > I > > really wanted to quit. Consciously, I did. Physically, I did not. > > Subconsciously, I defied the thought of quitting with every fiber of my > > being. > > > > What worked for me? The only thing so far? Fortunately, I found some > > sane > > information on Dr. Koop's web page -- the only true source of > > non-emotional > > information I ever found. It didn't cause me to stop -- it caused me to > > think about what I needed to do to stop and find a tool that worked for > > me. > > Vivid pictures of lungs affected by emphysema and cancer and such -- > > intellectually and subconsciously, they were the only "information" that > > was > > able to overrule my desire to smoke the next cigarette. I had to work > at > > "reprogramming" myself continually with those images for weeks and > weeks. > > I > > felt sick for weeks, too, so after I did quit, I relied on a few herbs > and > > drugs and support from friends. And I still want to smoke, believe it > or > > not. > > > > But my main point is that in order to quit, I had to do it by myself and > > for > > myself. No one else was involved in the process (except for the people > I > > snarled at, bitched at, yelled at, and ran over with my car). > > > > I support anybody who quits smoking -- and if there is a system or > device > > or > > organization out there that works consistently for other people, great! > > The > > only thing I found that worked for me was a little bit of intellectual > > information that finally made sense. > > > > And, so I'm going to offer a piece of advice to anyone who is worried > > about > > Joni's smoking, or anybody else's smoking. Shut up. Just shut up. > It's > > none of your business. Words like "worry" are toxic to an addict. > > > > The only possible thing you can say to a smoker is: "Have you ever > thought > > of quitting?" After you ask that question, there's nothing more you can > > say. The smoker has to answer the question. > > > > And if you don't understand that and keep on talking, you're only making > > the > > smoker want to smoke more and more and more. > > > > Off his soapbox, > > > > Harper Lou > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #79 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?