From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #76 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, February 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 076 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) [KJHSF@aol.c] Worship Divas [Joseph Palis ] Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles [Joseph Palis ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #108 [w evans ] Re: Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles [Joseph Palis ] Is this for real??? [Louis Lynch ] This is for real [Louis Lynch ] Genius of Joni and Clouds [M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\))] Re: This is for real ["Catherine McKay" ] Kakki [Steve Dulson ] Re: Kakki [Janet Hess ] Re: Critics of all expression.... [philipf@tinet.ie] A few words about Wally [leslie@torchsongs.com] Joni's BSN Review in Rolling Stones Magazine [mann@chicagonet.net] Email eze [Julie Webb ] Re: Joni's BSN Review in Rolling Stones Magazine [Don Rowe ] "Fan Addict" or "Connoisseur" [Julie Webb ] Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [RIKandBRAD@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #75 [Mindy Rose ] Re: Kakki [luvart@snet.net] One down, ?? to go [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:42:15 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) I have information about Rosanna Arquette. She is a big Joni fan and devotee. She was involved in getting some California politician elected to some office (possibly Jerry Brown, though I can't remember for sure, politics BORE me), and asked Joni to perform at a fund-raiser. Apparently, Joni came and played "The Last Time I Saw Richard", and Rosanna was blown-away. She has been quite vocal about her love for Joni. Perhaps she asked to introduce Joni in PWWAM out of this reverence, though she's a little too effusive IMHO. Oh--maybe it wasn't Jerry Brown, rather the campaign to elect McGovern for president way back in the seventies, and a young Arquette witnessed the perormance. I just can't remember. God, I feel old. "First you're green, then you're grey" Ken in SF ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:51:05 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Worship Divas I have been reading with keen interest the ongoing discussion about worship divas, homophobia, critics, and I find the discussion rife with insightful observations borne out of long experiences by the writers themselves with these issues. Thanks for the enlightenment. One thing I would like to say is the identification (almost like McCarthyism witch-hunting) of gays by the artists/divas they like or music they prefer. I am straight but I never hide the fact to people (especially in homophobic Manila) that I find Judy Garland's voice beautiful and that I prefer it to so-called urban divas of late. And yes, when I as much as discuss Judy Garland in public, people always assume I am gay because they perceive Garland fans as gays. Sometimes I get irritated by the narrowness of their definitions, but most of the time I let it pass because they are entitled to what they feel is right, as much as I am entitled to my opinions. Not too many people here (in the circle I move) knows Joni Mitchell, sad to say. They know more about Carole King and Carly Simon. If they do know Joni, it is through her BSN song. That's at least a good sign, in terms of the sales of Joni's latest album. Joseph PS. I requested my girlfriend to inquire about this singer Yma Sumac (as I read great things about her singing style in the Net) and when she finally found someone who knows Yma, that person asked my girlfriend if I am gay. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:30:14 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles I have often thought what it would be like to have a Joni tribute by artists who are in various musical genre (I know, I know. Music genre were manufactured by people in the music industry to make it easier for other people to trawl through a whole catalogue of various styles). In my wish list, here's my line-up Renee Fleming Janis Siegel Amy Holland Glenn Close Trisha Yearwood Blossom Dearie Dawn Upshaw Melissa Etheridge Oleta Adams Carly Simon Mary Black Lorrie Morgan Sade Carly Simon Cleo Laine And how I would have loved tohear Ella Fitzgerald sing one Joni song. Joseph (listening to the heartbeats of homes, courtesy of two felines, in the wee hours of the morning) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:01:16 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles Mary Black did cover "Urge for Going." I love Mary and I love that song, but I was unmoved by her cover version. Sounded sterile to me. At 07:30 PM 2/22/00 +0800, you wrote: >Mary Black Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 06:54:43 -0500 From: Maggie McNally Subject: Re: Get BSN for free!!!! Excuse me, but since when is BSN NOT Joni content??? May be indirect, but as long as it had SOME connection, it's cool with me. Maggie A Joni-content onlyer At 03:28 PM 2/21/00 EST, you wrote: >I'll probably get clobbered by not labeling this NJC, but I thought everyone >might be interested in this offer. Oh, no, Laura's freebie fever has rubbed >off on me! Oldsmobile is offering a $50 CdNow Gift Certificate just for test >driving an Alero by 4/29/00. Go to: www.alero.com and check it out! >With apologies if I've upset any Joni-onlyers. > >Hugs, >Ashara >www.photon.net/lightnet > > Maggie McNally ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:46:15 -0500 (EST) From: w evans Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #108 > > Ross, > > I don't think homophobia is intended by anyone making the statements about > > what "their" divas are. As a gay man, I have been told to "turn in my > card", > > whatever that means, because I lack the proper diva-worship. I happen to > > agree with Carlton that the VAST MAJORITY of gay men I've met fall into > that > > same category musically (Madonna, Crystal Waters, Steisand, Garland etc.) > > This is not meant to be a judgement of their character, just an > observation > > of the sign-of-the-times and musical tastes. Why is that homophobic to > you? > > ruminate on the phonebook in a valid and brilliant way). Music is so > > important to me that it would not serve me to be involved with someone > > romantically who has no appreciation for Joni. I think that is the point > for > > many gay men who struggle to seek a partner and encounter men with musical > > tastes tht run more toward the Madonna/Streisand/Bette/ etc thing. That > is > > their frustration. Calling them homophobic for this observation about the > > demographics of musical taste, which threatens no one's life, freedom or > > happiness, is going a little overboard. Though I feel compassion and > > Peace and Love and, if your ex who loves Joni is available and it's okay > by > > you, I'd love to meet him, > > Ken in SF > > NP: (appropriately, and not the madonna song) BORDERLINE > > I feel much the same way, but even worse because I really do think it speaks to a guy's character whether or not he's been manipulated by the media and the gay subculture into liking what everyone else likes, and I've met so many guys who don't have anything in common with me musically and have turned out to be major flakes once i tried to overlook that and go out with a few of them anyways. Recipe for disaster right there. I don't smoke or drink or enjoy loud techno at all, and I'm only 30 and don't want a "daddy" so it's really difficult for me. I really ought to move to England but I have no choice because of family but to be in Atlanta. I really feel oppressed by the gay world sometimes because I so don't fit in to it. When I say that it speaks to one's character, what I mean is that I think people's souls have certain shapes to them, and these shapes have contours that fit well with certain musics and styles--- different all-over musical map goes with a different soul shape. Am I judging people too harshly? I have a gut reaction when I meet people for the first time and learn a bit about them and think to myself "typical technofag...." when they tell me how much they love to dance to that shit, it just makes me feel so alienated and alone. - --ken in atlanta ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:53:17 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles But I liked another Celtic singer Maire Brennan's cover of Joni's Big Yellow Taxi in her MISTY EYED ADVENTURE album On Tue, 22 Feb 2000, Deb Messling wrote: > Mary Black did cover "Urge for Going." I love Mary and I love that song, > but I was unmoved by her cover version. Sounded sterile to me. > > > At 07:30 PM 2/22/00 +0800, you wrote: > >Mary Black > > > Deb Messling > messling@enter.net > http://www.enter.net/~messling/ > > I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. > - Joni Mitchell > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 08:12:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Tribute in Various Musical Styles Joseph wished: <> I put her version of "BSN" on my Covers collection, Volume 1. I thought it would be crummy, but I was pleasantly surprised. Her voice is pretty cheesy imo, but the arrangement of the song is really unique & pretty. Meanwhile, seeds are blowing in for the next volume... Bob NP: The Cure, "Maybe Someday" (from their new record) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:31:59 EST From: Chilihead2@aol.com Subject: More on Wally---listening to the Blue Notes Hi, Wally's death has really been very sad for all of us here and I don't blame any of us for wanting to move on, but I thought we could perhaps linger on these sad notes just a little longer. When I saw the photos of Joni and Wally together, I thought, how brave Wally looked fighting back the pain but also so serene. He clearly had made peace with his passing. Wally passes on and Joni's "classiest" album comes out at the same time with her best paintings. How wonderful it was that Wally was with his friends. We live in a world that fears pain and death. It runs away from it like an Armani spring collection. We are often uncomfortable with the dying and the sick. As our dear Kay of this list recently told me, "it's because it reminds them of their own mortality. What we will all will go through." Look, we even locked up Kervorkian. The baby boomers have taught us much, that life doesn't end after thirty and smoking pot is ok as long as you don't inhale and the like but, you still don't see many of them selling you anything on the tube. It's even worse if you're a woman. A woman in her mid thirties is often told she's too old to play opposite a thirty something man. So many people let the passing of years settle on their hearts like stones, they have cried rivers around their eyes and they expect fifty years to be cut away with a scalpel. A friend of mine who has full-blown aids said, "People live as if they have the years coming. As if they're entitled to them." He lives more in a week than most of us do in a year. He dances, he is a scientist, he paints scenes of his childhood in Haiti, he calls his girlfriend Queen Latifah in Paris just for fun and everyone believes him. We are, if we live long enough, going to die. Sometimes this is accompanied by pain so great it is an ocean that cannot be measured. Sometimes the pain itself will kill you. If you think about it, all the stuff you will acquire will end up in some yard sale someday. All your lovemaking and all your passion and you will still become as a bleached shell on the beach, and then you too, to the beach again. But it's the clutching that causes the pain, not the yielding. The empty hand is the richest. It took me a long time to really understand that. I would lie beside Mrs. Chili, her face still smooth and round, a belly like a runway model, and I would think I want to keep you this way always. After 20 years, she has become my lover,my mother, and my child. I want to hold her and keep her safe forever, but I can't. I would even give up my own life for her but that still will not stop the snows of winter. I know some of you are going through the same thing Wally went through, or know someone who is. Don't go through it alone. Call a hospice. Be with your friends. Find a pain doctor with a heart. Let yourself cry and laugh and don't be afraid. Find people who have looked death right in the face and said I am not afraid. Let them hold your hands. Let them hug you. Let yourself cry and laugh and don't be afraid. Warmly, - -Chili NP (Now painting) Mrs. Chili just finished her first painting of 2000. Oil on canvas. "Sweet peas on a jute trellis". She got right to the next one " Green grapes on the vine." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:20:10 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Public Flogging Mark writes beautifully and expressively: "This whole business of people getting mean-spirited private email from list members has come up before & it really pisses me off royally. Whoever it is that is doing this, JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???" And so on... Well said, Mark. I wonder if they're the same doofuses (doofi?) who send out all that pointless spam inviting one to visit porn sites, invest in some stupid venture, take out health insurance, win a trip to Florida and so on. Man, am I getting sick of that! Maybe it's just because I'm using "Hotmail", the "free" e-mail service. However, I took my name off their directory and given that I'm only on this list and no other, I'm leaning towards thinking that people sign onto these lists just so they can create mailing lists for whatever weird thing they're into. The thing I have to wonder is, why??? First of all, whoever does this obviously hasn't done their homework, or they'd realize that an investment or health insurance plan that may work in the US doesn't necessarily work outside of the US. They would likewise probably figure it out that, if I were interested in seeing sex acts on the internet, I'd figure out a way to get there myself, wouldn't I, without having it shoved in my face by someone who gets [what???] out of it?? It concerns me in particular because anyone can get a Hotmail (or Yahoo, or whatever) account and if so, this kind of stuff could be going to children. I was going to bring this up before, but I didn't want to get into this with the jmdl simply because I wasn't sure if it was an issue for other listers - however, a while back, a fellow lister mentioned something about the e-mails he gets inviting him to see live nude dwarves (or whatever.) Despite the obvious humour his e-mail intended, it actually comforted me to know that I wasn't the only one getting this kind of stuff (in the beginning, i was actually getting quite paranoid about it.) So, OK, I fight back by blocking the sender and, when I'm really in a rotten mood (who me? naaah!), I forward the offending e-mail to abuse@[name-the-ISP].com but, more often than not, the offender has somehow forged the name and they're not in fact a member of that particular ISP's list anyway. Something I just recently learned is that, if you're going to do that, you have to include the "long" version of the sender's message headers which presumably picks up more info than the "short" version would be. Yeah, I know I should just ignore this crap, but I really have to wonder why would anyone bother with this? If it's a marketing ploy, it can't be a very good one and probably ranks up there with dropping flyers off on people's cars in the parking lot so if there's anyone out there who's guilty of spamming a) kindly knock it off b) read up on marketing research and target your audience according to who is most likely to be interested in your product. (Wheeeewwww) I'm OK now. Cheerio. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:26:05 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Is this for real??? Hi all, Returning to the list after a long but trying weekend, I find this post from Lisa... ************************************************************************* I have recently joined and now must remove myself from this "discussion" list. Where are the discussions. It's been more like "diss' cussions...superficial banter, mean spirited jabbering and generally too many people with too little to say (in my opinion). What a waste of talent and time. Try spending it doing something meaningful for your community, your families or yourselves. Joni (and wally, whom we own a debt to) would appreciate it. L. nebenzahl *************************************************************************** Is this some kind of joke? If so, what a spit in the face! Lisa, you should not accuse other people of being "mean spirited" -- you seem to have the market cornered on mean spiritedness single-handedly. How dare you deign to tell us what our late friend Wally would appreciate! What a horrible and hurtfully disrespectful thing to say to people who are still actively mourning the loss of a vital centerpiece of our Internet community. Your words are worse than stupid -- they are heartless. This list is not a waste of talent and time for the ones who use it appropriately. We have created a network for information and discussion and humor and commiseration. It's not all highbrow -- we are human, after all, and sometimes we just like to talk about the weather. True, we don't all agree on every issue. Sometimes we criticize each other, sometimes we say things that are offensive, and sometimes we even makes fools of ourselves. But, even through the negative comments, we enjoy the interaction. Our objectives for this discussion list are interaction and communication. We don't pretend that this list is anything more. As far as meaningfulness to our communities, you might be surprised to find that this list comprises people who ARE leading successful lives, raising families, creating worthwhile works of art and music, serving our communities and reaching pretty lofty heights. We are mature adults who don't have unrealistic expectations of what other mature adults should say, do or be -- something you'll understand some day. I generally tend not to chastise other people in writing, but in your case, I'm going to make an exception: Young lady, the comments above indicate that you are full of your own self-righteous shit. Your message reeks of cruelty, bitterness and dysfunction, and you should be careful to assess what you are doing with your own talent and time before criticizing others. The intelligent and inspired people on the Joni Mitchell Discussion List do not deserve your abuse, so take it elsewhere and keep it there. Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 07:36:02 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: This is for real Hello Joni Discussion List, I couldn't help but respond to the person who criticized our list so inappropriately. I want to affirm that I enjoy reading the posts from all of you on the list, and I'm glad to be numbered among you. Sure, the disagreements and stupid little jokes and ridiculous stuff aren't the cream of literary history, but I gratefully accept them along with the brilliant and sublime. Even though I get busy and have to skim, I still look forward to the posts - -- especially yours Kakki! And Ashara, and Don Rowe/Whoever, and Catherine, and Michael Paz, and David Lahm, and Catgirl, and Jerry, and ... well, you get the picture. (Even you, catman!) So keep up the good work, and write what you want! And, the curse of perpetual nicotine withdrawal symptoms on anyone who criticizes this list again! Love and regards, Harper Lou . ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:40:28 +0000 From: M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\)) Subject: Genius of Joni and Clouds I have been looking at all the album covers on the Genius of Joni Mitchell page from Jason Maloney's web site (http://freespace.virgin.net/jason.maloney/Slipstream_menu.html). Its a treat to see all those brilliant covers together on the screen, it brought back to me memories of the delights when I first bought them. (Well done Jason- but have you forgotten MOA?) Some of the covers are opened out showing front and back. Seeing both sides now (sorry I couldn't resist it) of the Clouds album cover, reminded me that this was the only Joni album I had on vinyl which was not a gatefold cover. More annoyingly it did not include any printed lyrics. I think I acquired this copy around 1980, so it could have been different from the first release version. Does anyone know if the original cover opened out with the lyrics printed inside? Tucked inside the cover I found my own handwritten version of the lyrics last night. I recall playing and re-playing that album to scribble them all down. Apart from noticing how my handwriting has changed (deteriorated to be truthful!) I spotted a few mistakes e.g. On Tin Angel I wrote "there's a soul in his eyes" for "there's sorrow in his eyes" On Roses Blue "she'll probably sign your death" for " prophesy your death" On "Songs to Aging Children Come" I could never make out the word "rhapsodies" so there's a blank. Has anyone else been singing the wrong words for years too? It made sense to me anyway! Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:04:33 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: This is for real Well, Louis, I hate to say this, but I am just so tempted to tell you just to start *smoking* again. But you've come so far, you just can't give in now... My initial reaction to *that* post was just like yours. But then, I realized, she's entitled to her opinion, just like everyone else (even if it is, IMO, a *bit* misguided - just a tad, a wee skite.) I have to wonder why someone would post, as far as I can see, the first time, only to be SO negative. From what I've read from those who are/have been on other lists, there's a lot of cussin' and swearin' and name-calling and brawling (see- JC!) so I do wonder where she's coming from and am so tempted to suggest psychiatric help, but that seems to be my answer to anything these days (my mother would have suggested that she pray). If I see someone being that angry with a bunch of, let's face it, complete strangers, I assume either she's joking (Jerry-Lewis style?) or she's really angry with something and just taking it out on us (instead of kicking the dog). Keep NOT smoking. The worst is behind you (I think). Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:25:13 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Kakki patrick wrote: >kakki, you're one of my favorite people on the joniplanet. that i've ever >met through the internet. that i've ever met. I can't imagine anyone who has met Kakki who would disagree with that. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:55:17 -0500 From: Janet Hess Subject: Re: Kakki Even many of us who haven't met Kakki in the flesh (as it were) are inclined to agree. You'll do too, Steve, my bro. ;) In fact, this whole Joniworld ain't all that bad. Hugz, Janet & Deanna Ivy the Wonderkitty, still enjoying those cybertreats from yesterday At 09:25 AM 2/22/2000 -0800, Steve Dulson wrote: >patrick wrote: > >>kakki, you're one of my favorite people on the joniplanet. that i've ever >>met through the internet. that i've ever met. > >I can't imagine anyone who has met Kakki who would disagree with that. > - ----------------- So when you see a man who's broken / Pick him up and carry him. And when you see a woman who's broken / Put her all into your arms 'Cause we don't know where we come from / We don't know what we are. Laurie Anderson, "Ramon" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:54:36 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Critics of all expression.... - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Thank god for a forum like the JMDL where it isn't (or shouldn't) be unhip > to express delight and positive reactions, whether or not the world at large > will agree. There's nothing unhip with expressing positive opinions. Joni Mitchell is a fairly robust artist who is well capable a dishing out criticism herself so I don't think she needs well intentioned fans telling other fans or music writers not to express doubt about any aspect of her work. About the NME. I regularly hate it, love it, get infuriated, etc etc. In other words it's still the best music paper in the world. Here's the first sentence from a review of Yo La Tengo's new album in this week's paper: " It's a truth rarely acknowledged by rock bands that relationships are defined by the tiny details, not the grand gestures. First glances, awkward dancing, flavours of Chapstick, sleepless silences after arguments in the middle of the night ..................." John Mulvey I don't have time to type any more but I don't ever see writing that good in older persons mags like Q, Mojo etc. Makes me feel young. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:02:24 -0800 (PST) From: leslie@torchsongs.com Subject: A few words about Wally Hello: A few people have emailed me to inquire about the memorial on Saturday. The weather cooperated fully as we set sail on the Monterey Bay. Jim had the solemn privilege of pouring Wally's ashes into the San Francisco Bay. I deposited several pieces of the urn (which had broken, but that's another story) and felt the pain of a lost and cherished friend. Some people come into our lives.......leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. Joni's manager as well as Reprise sent floral arrangements to Jim's house. Thank you to those who have sent comforting words and thoughts. Thank you to Wally for sharing your heart with us. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:54:13 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Joni's BSN Review in Rolling Stones Magazine The March 16th issue of Rolling Stones (with Santana on the cover), pg. 74 has a nice, recent b&w picture of Joni. They give Both Sides Now 3 stars Joni Mitchell Both Sides Now Reprise Mitchell shows off her jazz skills on an album of covers Deep down, Joni Mitchell has always been a jazz singer. Though her compositions center on life lessons and other writerly observations, what animates them are the intricate melodies - jackknifing, sharp-cornered lines that demand to-the- syllable specificity. On Both Sides Now, Mitchell applies that precision to tunes that have been famously blubbered over for decades (plus 2 of her own songs). Where Linda Ronstadt and other pop singers who have covered jazz standards tend to lean on oversize crooning (most recently and abhorrently, George Micahel), Mitchell knows that the romance vanishes when the lines are exaggerated. So she concentrates on the melodic essence of torchy warhorses like "You've Changed" and "Stormy Weather," boiling away the frills until all that's left are haunting, painfully stark declarations. Singing atop a velvety orchestra, sounding buoyant one minute and betrayed the next, Mitchell interprets "At Last" with slurry, smeared-paint gestures and gives "Don't Go To Strangers" a weary, Billie Holiday-worthy soul ache. It is Mitchell's emotional generosity, not the fabulous surroundings, that winds up mattering most: After years of spinning yarns heavily dependent on words, she's telling these stories with a repertoire of gingerly placed inflections and anguished sighs, tools she's always had but never flaunted - - Tom Moon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:01:35 -0500 From: Julie Webb Subject: Email eze The following site by Virginia Shea--- has everything you ever wanted to know about the workings of email culture but were afraid to ask: http://www.thirdage.com/features/tech/netiquette/ix0963702513.htmlby Virginia Shea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:07:04 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni's BSN Review in Rolling Stones Magazine Well at least they didn't dub it "Worst Album Title of the Year" ... keep the good presses rolling folks, there's a movie in need of a themesong that will lead to an Oscar nomination for Joni -- remember you heard it here first! How's *that* for unbridled enthusiasm ... :-) Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:23:08 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: Genius of Joni and Clouds Hello Mike, I'm delighted you enjoyed the Joni Mitchell page. Part of my hope and intention when doing the section was to finally have all the Joni artwork presented together. In fact, I wanted to include more "opened-out" sleeves (DED, HOSL, TI), but it would have disrupted the format I had in the text of *grouping* certain albums together. I did try HOSL actually, but the spine was a bit mangled and the resulting scan didn't look too good. Thank you for the feedback. As I was saying to another JMDL-er the other day, it's a really good feeling when your work and effort gives others pleasure. MOA? Yes,"Guilty, m'lud"..... I've been called up on this omission already, and I will try and rectify that. I don't have the CD, so won't be able to scan the artwork, but thanks to Cassy I should be able to write a few words on the album and its significance in the overall career arc of Joni. Best Wishes, Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:33:22 -0500 From: Julie Webb Subject: "Fan Addict" or "Connoisseur" Jmdlers, "Saturday Night Live" was especially funny this past week. Ben Affleck, who surprisingly impressed me the most....was host and the talented, Fiona Apple, was the guest musician. My favorite skit was a spoof on MTV's(?) "Fan Addict" show. This sketch gave us a derelict Ben in braces playing a hilarious stereotypical zealot fan who gets to meet Anna Nicole Smith. To me, this sketch brings it all home to this discussion. I'm not referring to the jmdlers at the heart of this thread----but what I see as the fundamental underlying issue here. (Please don't see me as pontificating, because I have written some incredibly insensitive posts....) But I've gotta say what's on my mind. I think it has something to do with being **dissed** when you embrace anything in our culture.. A fan addict connotes a loser with no life. John Hinckley was a big-time fan addict. Wine aficionados are not always alcoholics. As educated contributors on this list, I don't think anyone appreciates the slightest insinuation of fanaticism----because----plain and simple----there are a lot of weirdoes into star-worship.. I have found many of the folks on the jmdl to be, for the most part, cultivated and extraordinary in their own individual ways...Perhaps many of them are more like Joni Mitchell "connoisseurs," if you will. Doesn't the word connoisseur conjure up images of someone you respect? I would feel a tad sheepish in teasing (dissing) Woody Allen for his love of Benny Goodman.... We live in a time when it's cool to "dis" and not respect. And the truth is that few people possess the charm of Letterman to get away with it. (Wasn't he brilliant last night? btw----Although I often find Letterman to be sophomoric----the way he affectionately introduced his entire surgical staff ---- was touching. They saved his life...he was grateful. The heart and humor...and humility displayed was gracious and a testament to his talent.) ---Juliezwebb ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:46:59 EST From: RIKandBRAD@aol.com Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Kakki Wrote: but I can't buy an attitude that makes people feel foolish because they happen to like something that others more boldly vocal have dismissed. So I hope that some of those hiding their light under a bushel will come forward and feel comfortable to express their opinions more often. RikyRacer Responds: Kakki: You were the first person to email me (offlist)with a welcome note when I joined the list a few months ago. You made me feel immediately welcome and I ran home from work that night delighted to tell Brad about my new pals. His reaction? You mean there are people in this world that write about HER? He's not a fan. He leans more to Judy Garland, Oleta Adams, and the other "gay divas." But I digress, that's my next post. Kakki, your warmth and generosity shine through your pearls of prose gifted to us on the list. Please don't go away for even a while. The response to your (hillarious) fictional interview was unfortunate and a clear judgement error. I can't spell well, much less type well, and don't know a damn thing about music like most of you do, and can't send a message to the discussion list without it getting bounced. I now have to leave my work ISP, go to AOL and send from there to avoid Les kickin me off altogether. But, I will post when provoked and Kakki, this provoked me. The list would not shine as bright without Kakki. Please don't go. RikyRacer in Hollywood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:03:10 -0800 (PST) From: Mindy Rose Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #75 I would like to comment on the post: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni. Now I know gay is an all emcompassing word, but I for one am a lesbian fan of Joni's and have been for awhile. I agree with Ross that not all homosexuals like Judy and Bette. Some like Metallica and Judas Priest. Some like Classical and Jazz. IMHO Joni has done alot for the gay community to say that Gay's only like Bette is rather homophobic and ignorant. Music whether it be Joni Mitchell or Van Halen reaches everyone.Gay or straight. - --- onlyJMDL Digest wrote: > > onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, February 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 075 > > > > The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at > http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, > original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. > ------- > The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains > interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. > ========== > > TOPICS and authors in this Digest: > -------- > Re: Like a beacon [Dflahm@aol.com] > Re: Critics of all expression [catman ] > Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni ["Ross] > Joni Criticism (SJC) [NathanLaFraneer@aol.com] > Re: Aging Pianists ["Catherine McKay" ] > An observation ... BSNLE vs. Promo??? [Don Rowe ] > BSN-a good copy! [Kevin_E_Licht@email.whirlpool.com] > Fwd: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) > [NathanLaFraneer@aol.c] > Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? ["Catherine McKay" Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) ["Catherine McKay" Re: Fwd: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni > (SJC) [catman Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) [Don Rowe john kelly [Bounced Message ] > Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni [KJHSF] > Get BSN for free!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] > I made a BSN conversion! [Bounced Message ] > RE: I made a BSN conversion! ["Alan Lorimer" ] > Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni ["Matt] > OK, that Daily Mail review in full [Jason Maloney Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) [Na] > Re: Daily Mail review [David Wright ] > Re: OK, that Daily Mail review in full [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] > Re: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) > [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] > Re: Public Flogging ["Mark or Travis" ] > Re: I made a BSN conversion! ["Mark or Travis" ] > Re: I made a BSN conversion! [luvart@snet.net] > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 07:47:05 EST > From: Dflahm@aol.com > Subject: Re: Like a beacon > > Like the best beacons, Susan's list enables you to move forward while at the > same time acting as a caution. Thanks DAVID LAHM > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:27:00 +0000 > From: catman > Subject: Re: Critics of all expression > > perhaps I have missed some posts or something. I have read what people are > writing > now and I get the imprssion that posts wondering whether or not Joni can pull > off > a standards album or posts about dislikeing TTT are considered mean and > hpercritical. It also seems that Joni's truly sensitive fans do not write to > the > list. Is the new rule that we can only write about about those Joni works we > love? That we cannot express an opinion about her painting that is negative? > The only meaness i noticed was from people who disagreed with those who wrote > anything negative about Joni or her work. I believe it is possible to > disagree > without people getting all humpy about it. > In the 2 1/2 years I habve been here, I have noticed a change of late, not > for the > better. It has become not such a safe place to state an opinion.( iam not > talking > about people coming down on others for racist,sexist, homophobic, remarks-tho > that > needn't be done horribly). > I know when i dared to suggest that maybe Joni wouldn't be able to pull off > the > singing of the standards, I was written to and among other things, was told > 'how > dare I, as poor wally had just died'. Personally, I found that highly > offensive > and sick. > Still this list is by and large a wonderful list, peopled by good and caring > and > sensitive people who sometimes get away with themselves. > bw > colin > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:18:03 -0000 > From: "Ross" > Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni > > From: CarltonCT@aol.com > Subject: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and > Joni > > their > prominent divas. Gay men don't usually like jazz, rock or folk and > don't > get Joni. The usual gay divas are Judy, Barbra, Liza, Bette, Shirley, > Madonna and a few others. The younger generation still likes > Madonna > but are listening to dance stuff from the new divas like Deborah Cox > and > Crystal Waters. > > > 'Their prominent divas'??? Please! I find this really homophobic. Like > ALL gay men merge into one? They only have a collective opinion? > > 'They don't usually like jazz, rock or folk'?! Well I do! And I know > many others too, heck, one of the most popular gay clubs in London > plays back to back rock music. > > Who the hell are Deborah Cox and Crystal Waters?! Please please don't > sterotype, it is a very dangerous thing to do. My current boyfriend is > a huge Joni fan and my ex is aslo a huge Joni fan so hopefully this > will tell you that your sexuality has absoultely nothing to do with > your taste in music. God, what century are we in?! > > Ross > GAY Joni Fan (*Last* time the word 'gay' will be inserted) > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:14:53 EST > From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com > Subject: Joni Criticism (SJC) > > On the subject of criticizing Joni ... why must we mince words? Unless she is > > God(dess) she has been bound to make a few missteps along the way. I mean, I > > am a huge fan of Alfred Hitchcock films, and really love him, but I know that > > even he made some real stinkers along the way (Marnie, Family Plot...bleccch) > > And I like reading Jane Austen, but really...she was over extending herself > when she wrote Mansfield park (too many characters, too little humor). Is > Joni to stand over and abover everybody else just because she's... well, > Joni? Nah. Of course, I am not saying make it a field day on her (Lord > knows, enough Joni detractors do that ... especially my friends who roll > their eyes whenever I mention her name,...yet have they even TRIED to listen > to her? NO! But I digress...) > > As for a lot of the criticism of her new album, I have yet to hear it. > However, I have been steeling myself for it. I am also thinking how since > 1982 all her albums have been really spaced apart, and that for this one to > follow TTT so closely is a pretty cool thing. Therefore, I am going to > consider this new album a "gift." I mean, we COULD have waited another three > > or four years for it ... but only 1.5 years after her last effort, at this > late stage of her career? We are lucky. :) > > Anyhow, have a good day all > Ed > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:07:22 GMT > From: "Catherine McKay" > Subject: Re: Aging Pianists > > Jim writes: > "I think the only thing to degrade Joni's keyboard playing would be those > damned paintbrushes in her hands! :)" > > Well, I guess someone's just gonna have to rip them from her bleeding hands! > (Anyway, she doesn't need any MORE paint on her piano!) > > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:13:09 -0800 (PST) > From: Don Rowe > Subject: An observation ... BSNLE vs. Promo??? > > While many of us have been gnashing our teeth and > spitting "venom" at Reprise over defective BSNLE ... > has it struck anyone that not a single review (many > have been posted)has mentioned a CD that skips? Now > this is *pure* speculation on my part -- but I imagine > that Reprise sent out promo copies for review -- and > they seem fine. So my question to Reprise, to use the > ad lingo catch-phrase of the day is: > > WHAA-SUUUUUUP? > > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:49:07 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: Kakki I'll testify too ..... Kakki is such a sweet person. Her posts are kind, well thought out and a pleasure to read. I've had the privilege of meeting with her three times over the past two years and really feel I've met a kindred spirit. Don't stay away Kakki :-) Heather At 09:25 AM 2/22/00 -0800, Steve Dulson wrote: >patrick wrote: > >>kakki, you're one of my favorite people on the joniplanet. that i've ever >>met through the internet. that i've ever met. > >I can't imagine anyone who has met Kakki who would disagree with that. > > > >######################################################### >Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:01:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: One down, ?? to go Hello, Joni lovers around the world! I've had a great evening putting together the various flotsam and jetsam I've been collecting for the "Covers and Contributions" project I'm working on. The first disc is gonna look something like this: A Case of You - Nancy Wilson (this is a smokin' live-in-the-guitar-shop recording that Kakki picked up. Really nice acoustic and vocal) Laughing - David Crosby (this just has a wisp of a Joni vocal on it but it's a gorgeous song) Both Sides Now - Nana Mouskouri (she's Greek I think, she's got a nice voice) Blue - Paul Horn, with Joni vocal & piano (if you haven't heard this one yet, all I can say is WOW!) Urge For Going - Crosby & Nash Chelsea Morning - Paul Horn A Case of You - Brian Kennedy (this was given to me a while back by Kevin in Scotland...are you still out there, Kevin?) All I Want - Natalie Merchant Blue - Sarah McLachlan A Case of You - Tori Amos (may be a case of you overload on this first disc...I may have to rethink my sequencing, but they are all gorgeous versions) If I Could - Seal, with superb Joni duet - Joni really pushes herself on this duet, it's much better than the Seal/Joni song on her record imo) Long Ago & Far Away - James Taylor & Joni duet(I debated putting this one on, because I figured everyone has heard it, but it's so darn pretty) For Free - Ethel Ennis (talk about smokin' jazz...this one features great sax and upright bass, dare I say it's better than Joni's version? Hmmm, I'll leave it to you to decide) For Free - Judy Collins (this version is SO radically different than Ethel's, it doesn't bother me a bit to have it back to back, Richard Stoltzman on the clarinet, very nice) Chelsea Morning - Judy Collins (1997) Both Sides Now - Judy Collins (1985) (hey, I'm not even a J.C. fan and I love these three JC selections!) Dida - Joan Baez/Joni (I'd print the lyrics, but just say "Dee-dah" about 238 times and you pretty much got the gist of it. Nice track, I wish Joni was out in front of the other Joan vocally tho, but that's just me) Twisted - Lambert, Hendricks & Ross Centerpiece - Lambert, Hendricks & Ross (OK, I know that it was JONI covering THEIR stuff, but I've heard Joni's versions so much these sound like covers to me! Besides, it's a good way for me to get some free CD's to my pal Deb Messling!) Besides Deb, contributors on this disc are Randy Remote, Kevin, Stephen, yours truly, and of course Kakki. And that's just the first disc!!! Coming up in this same volume, George Hamilton IV, Janet Jackson, Wynonna Judd, Diana Ross,The Byrds, Matthews Southern Comfort, too many more to name... And it's not too late to contribute - if you have some Joni covers in the closet somewhere, just let me know! So far I've got about 3 CD's worth! Bob NP: Steely Dan, "Razor Boy" ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #76 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?