From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #75 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, February 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 075 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Like a beacon [Dflahm@aol.com] Re: Critics of all expression [catman ] Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni ["Ross] Joni Criticism (SJC) [NathanLaFraneer@aol.com] Re: Aging Pianists ["Catherine McKay" ] An observation ... BSNLE vs. Promo??? [Don Rowe ] BSN-a good copy! [Kevin_E_Licht@email.whirlpool.com] Fwd: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) [NathanLaFraneer@aol.c] Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni [KJHSF] Get BSN for free!!!! [AsharaJM@aol.com] I made a BSN conversion! [Bounced Message ] RE: I made a BSN conversion! ["Alan Lorimer" ] Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni ["Matt] OK, that Daily Mail review in full [Jason Maloney ] Re: OK, that Daily Mail review in full [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) [SCJoniGuy@aol.c] Re: Public Flogging ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: I made a BSN conversion! ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: I made a BSN conversion! [luvart@snet.net] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 07:47:05 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Like a beacon Like the best beacons, Susan's list enables you to move forward while at the same time acting as a caution. Thanks DAVID LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:27:00 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Critics of all expression perhaps I have missed some posts or something. I have read what people are writing now and I get the imprssion that posts wondering whether or not Joni can pull off a standards album or posts about dislikeing TTT are considered mean and hpercritical. It also seems that Joni's truly sensitive fans do not write to the list. Is the new rule that we can only write about about those Joni works we love? That we cannot express an opinion about her painting that is negative? The only meaness i noticed was from people who disagreed with those who wrote anything negative about Joni or her work. I believe it is possible to disagree without people getting all humpy about it. In the 2 1/2 years I habve been here, I have noticed a change of late, not for the better. It has become not such a safe place to state an opinion.( iam not talking about people coming down on others for racist,sexist, homophobic, remarks-tho that needn't be done horribly). I know when i dared to suggest that maybe Joni wouldn't be able to pull off the singing of the standards, I was written to and among other things, was told 'how dare I, as poor wally had just died'. Personally, I found that highly offensive and sick. Still this list is by and large a wonderful list, peopled by good and caring and sensitive people who sometimes get away with themselves. bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:18:03 -0000 From: "Ross" Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni 'Their prominent divas'??? Please! I find this really homophobic. Like ALL gay men merge into one? They only have a collective opinion? 'They don't usually like jazz, rock or folk'?! Well I do! And I know many others too, heck, one of the most popular gay clubs in London plays back to back rock music. Who the hell are Deborah Cox and Crystal Waters?! Please please don't sterotype, it is a very dangerous thing to do. My current boyfriend is a huge Joni fan and my ex is aslo a huge Joni fan so hopefully this will tell you that your sexuality has absoultely nothing to do with your taste in music. God, what century are we in?! Ross GAY Joni Fan (*Last* time the word 'gay' will be inserted) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:14:53 EST From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Subject: Joni Criticism (SJC) On the subject of criticizing Joni ... why must we mince words? Unless she is God(dess) she has been bound to make a few missteps along the way. I mean, I am a huge fan of Alfred Hitchcock films, and really love him, but I know that even he made some real stinkers along the way (Marnie, Family Plot...bleccch) And I like reading Jane Austen, but really...she was over extending herself when she wrote Mansfield park (too many characters, too little humor). Is Joni to stand over and abover everybody else just because she's... well, Joni? Nah. Of course, I am not saying make it a field day on her (Lord knows, enough Joni detractors do that ... especially my friends who roll their eyes whenever I mention her name,...yet have they even TRIED to listen to her? NO! But I digress...) As for a lot of the criticism of her new album, I have yet to hear it. However, I have been steeling myself for it. I am also thinking how since 1982 all her albums have been really spaced apart, and that for this one to follow TTT so closely is a pretty cool thing. Therefore, I am going to consider this new album a "gift." I mean, we COULD have waited another three or four years for it ... but only 1.5 years after her last effort, at this late stage of her career? We are lucky. :) Anyhow, have a good day all Ed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:07:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Aging Pianists Jim writes: "I think the only thing to degrade Joni's keyboard playing would be those damned paintbrushes in her hands! :)" Well, I guess someone's just gonna have to rip them from her bleeding hands! (Anyway, she doesn't need any MORE paint on her piano!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 08:13:09 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: An observation ... BSNLE vs. Promo??? While many of us have been gnashing our teeth and spitting "venom" at Reprise over defective BSNLE ... has it struck anyone that not a single review (many have been posted)has mentioned a CD that skips? Now this is *pure* speculation on my part -- but I imagine that Reprise sent out promo copies for review -- and they seem fine. So my question to Reprise, to use the ad lingo catch-phrase of the day is: WHAA-SUUUUUUP? Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:02:01 -0500 From: Kevin_E_Licht@email.whirlpool.com Subject: BSN-a good copy! Hi all, Haven't posted in a very long time but wanted to touch base that my version of Both Sides Now arrived from CD Now with the disc still firmly attached to the spindle and with no scratches. Not sure why or how I got lucky. My wife and I had to wait a full week to find a suitable time to listen to the new disc but it was worth the wait. Yesterday was beautifully sunny and warm, so were able to take the Passat out for a nice leisurely drive with the sunroof open. The CD played flawlessly, and we both loved it. Definitely different, but very nice. This turned out to be the perfect Valentine for Kimberly. I feel very bad for all the folks with funky discs that have to go through the hassle of returning. Not fun. Kevin Come back soon, Kakki. Thanks Wally ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:02:24 EST From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) - --part1_15.15e8f3f.25e2c9a0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My apologies if you already received this email ... it never seemed to show up to my mailbox, so I am wondering if anybody else received it the first time I sent it out... Again, sorry for the duplicates In a message dated 02/21/2000 10:04:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, NathanLaFraneer writes: << Subj: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) Date: 02/21/2000 10:04:47 AM Eastern Standard Time From: NathanLaFraneer To: joni@smoe.org, ross@rossty.co.uk In a message dated 02/21/2000 9:27:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, ross@rossty.co.uk writes: << Gay men don't usually like jazz, rock or folk and don't get Joni. >> Dammit! I *knew* I wasn't a real gay man, no wonder I can't get a date! Now I'll have to throw out all of my Nirvana CD's and start over. No, I think that was a bit of a generalization as well. Yes, there is also truth to it (I do happen to own every Madonna CD as well) but really... I have actually been conducting a very unscientific search as of late. I am on AOL and I get very very bored, so I often conduct member searches looking for guys to chat with who have listed Joni in their profile. Now, this may be of interest ... the only search terms I use are "Joni" "Mitchell" and "male" I do NOT include the terms "gay" or "homosexual." Over half the men who turn up (maybe even 3/4) are indeed gay. In fact, wasn't Wally Breese himself not of the heterosexual persuasion? (I am not speculating here, nor slamming him) So, yes, gay men do like their diva's (grumble grumble), but as for us not "getting" Joni ... well, no, I do think we get it... It is funny this was brought up as I was calling Joni the "unknown diva" this past week. (Her behavior and comments are certainly very diva-like at times) I think if gay guys who liked her all got together, we'd see how many of us there were... And truthfully, I'd rather worship Joni, who is arrogant, self assured and a real pisser than Judy Garland who has become known for her misery. :( Ed "Does this make me look fat?" Aycock >> - --part1_15.15e8f3f.25e2c9a0_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Full-name: NathanLaFraneer Message-ID: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:04:47 EST Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) To: joni@smoe.org, ross@rossty.co.uk MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 45 In a message dated 02/21/2000 9:27:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, ross@rossty.co.uk writes: << Gay men don't usually like jazz, rock or folk and don't get Joni. >> Dammit! I *knew* I wasn't a real gay man, no wonder I can't get a date! Now I'll have to throw out all of my Nirvana CD's and start over. No, I think that was a bit of a generalization as well. Yes, there is also truth to it (I do happen to own every Madonna CD as well) but really... I have actually been conducting a very unscientific search as of late. I am on AOL and I get very very bored, so I often conduct member searches looking for guys to chat with who have listed Joni in their profile. Now, this may be of interest ... the only search terms I use are "Joni" "Mitchell" and "male" I do NOT include the terms "gay" or "homosexual." Over half the men who turn up (maybe even 3/4) are indeed gay. In fact, wasn't Wally Breese himself gay? (I am not speculating here) So, yes, gay men do like their diva's (grumble grumble), but as for us not "getting" Joni ... well, no, I do think we get it... It is funny this was brought up as I was calling Joni the "unknown diva" this past week. (Her behavior and comments are certainly very diva-like at times) I think if gay guys who liked her all got together, we'd see how many of us there were... And truthfully, I'd rather worship Joni, who is arrogant, self assured and a real pisser than Judy Garland who has become known for her misery. :( Ed "Does this make me look fat?" Aycock - --part1_15.15e8f3f.25e2c9a0_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:04:28 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: What's a good Carly Simon to buy? Mark quotes Carly: "'Cause you're over thirty and underweight Though you call yourself petite" This song doesn't sound like Joni at all but the thing that really clinched it for me was that line - I can't imagine Joni "calling herself petite". Does anyone know how tall Joni is? She looks tall to me, but then, people think I'm tall and I'm only 5ft3in. I'd put Joni at at least 5'8", hardly what you'd call petite and although Joni isn't overweight, I'd hardly call her underweight either - she looks "normal" to me (whatever that means.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:19:06 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Kakki wrote to Lisa (and the list): "Regarding my sometimes unabashed enthusiasm for Joni, I have to say that I am not the only one around here although it may look that way sometimes. I constantly receive private email from regular and irregular posters and lurkers who often feel the same positive reaction to various aspects of her music and painting that I do, but who are reticent to express the same on the list. The critics certainly have their place here and their posts are often educational and provide new angles and insights. I appreciate and learn from them. But there is something upside-down when a significant portion of the list feels reticent to express purely positive opinions about various aspects of Joni's work. I know we pride ourselves here as being collectively brilliant and a cut above the typical discussion group, but I can't buy an attitude that makes people feel foolish because they happen to like something that others more boldly vocal have dismissed. So I hope that some of those hiding their light under a bushel will come forward and feel comfortable to express their opinions more often." I second that emotion. It saddens me to think that people might be afraid to express their opinion - especially when it's a positive one. No one's opinion is any better than anyone else's - it's just an opinion. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:32:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Fwd: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni (SJC) I'm not really gay either. Can't stand Garland, Striesand, Doris Day, Ethel Merman, Petula Clark, Dusty or Cilla Black. the closest i got was rteally liking Donna back in the 70's. Apart from Joni and Carly and other female singers i also like Pink Floyd, Bowie, Oldfield, Tangerine Dream. bw colin ps don't tell John I'm not really gay....after almost 19 years, he couldn't take the shock. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 11:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: My Interview With Joni (a Bigger Fiction) Kakki recently lamented ... > I > can't buy an attitude that makes people feel foolish > because they happen to > like something that others more boldly vocal have > dismissed. I hope this is not what's happening around here ... some of my fondest memories of being on this list include saddling up my white horse and riding out to defend "Dog Eat Dog" and "Chalkmark In A Rainstorm" from what, at the time, seemed an army of critics. It's been my experience since that time, that an equal number of folks have joined the cause. And that, for me, is what this list is all about. Let's hope it stays that way. And while I'm on the subject, I'll paraphrase John Irving and pray: Dear Lord, please send Kakki back to us -- I shall not stop asking you. Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:36:21 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: john kelly Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:31:42 -0500 From: Barbara Lucey Hello, Joni subscribers. Last summer totally by chance I caught John Kelly's "Paved Paradise" Joni-tribute show at the Jungle in Provincetown. As any of you know who have seen him, he's extraodinary. Every spring, I get togethr with 3 high school girl frends for a weekend away from the usualy responsibilities -- we live in 4 different east coast cities. We are all forever Joni fans. This year I was hoping to track down where John might be performing so I can share the experience with them. So far, no luck in tracking down his schedule or his agent to ask. So I'm asking you! If anyone has a link, please email me at blucey@mediaone.net. Thank you! (Of course, if Joni is performing anywhere that you know of, even better.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 14:59:31 EST From: KJHSF@aol.com Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni Ross, I don't think homophobia is intended by anyone making the statements about what "their" divas are. As a gay man, I have been told to "turn in my card", whatever that means, because I lack the proper diva-worship. I happen to agree with Carlton that the VAST MAJORITY of gay men I've met fall into that same category musically (Madonna, Crystal Waters, Steisand, Garland etc.) This is not meant to be a judgement of their character, just an observation of the sign-of-the-times and musical tastes. Why is that homophobic to you? We all have diva-worship, I hope, as there are many, many brilliant women in art, music, literature, politics nd thought, we just may disagree about which divas we worship. And that is a matter of taste. I live in San Francisco, and have encountered a few gay men here. I have not encountered that many who appreciate Ms. Mitchell, or know who she is or, worse yet, confuse her with Judy Collins, Joan Baez, etc. You are lucky to have met two partners who are Joni-heads. Please don't consider it Americanphobic, but I've sensed that Europeans are more understanding and open minded to cultural anomalies such as Joni who transcends the opinion of current taste. I don't lump ALL Americans into the category of Joni-nonfans (as evidenced by my participation in this discussion community), just most of them. In this country, taste in many things is bought and sold, and as you are a fan of Joni's, you must be aware that this is quite a grand theme for her life and work these days almost having replaced her ruminatons on love. (This is by no means a criticism of Joni's work in this regard, she could probably ruminate on the phonebook in a valid and brilliant way). Music is so important to me that it would not serve me to be involved with someone romantically who has no appreciation for Joni. I think that is the point for many gay men who struggle to seek a partner and encounter men with musical tastes tht run more toward the Madonna/Streisand/Bette/ etc thing. That is their frustration. Calling them homophobic for this observation about the demographics of musical taste, which threatens no one's life, freedom or happiness, is going a little overboard. Though I feel compassion and empathy for us all as, with any group that is readily castigated, we should be on guard when someone's will is being forced upon us. Let's save our phobia-calling for those issues, and enjoy this discussion of taste and opinion about the wonder of music and the genius of Joni. Peace and Love and, if your ex who loves Joni is available and it's okay by you, I'd love to meet him, Ken in SF NP: (appropriately, and not the madonna song) BORDERLINE ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:28:18 EST From: AsharaJM@aol.com Subject: Get BSN for free!!!! I'll probably get clobbered by not labeling this NJC, but I thought everyone might be interested in this offer. Oh, no, Laura's freebie fever has rubbed off on me! Oldsmobile is offering a $50 CdNow Gift Certificate just for test driving an Alero by 4/29/00. Go to: www.alero.com and check it out! With apologies if I've upset any Joni-onlyers. Hugs, Ashara www.photon.net/lightnet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:56:41 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: I made a BSN conversion! From: "Jerome Gonzales" Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:44:33 -0800 OK, so my boss and I usually discuss music here at work. I got him into Aimee Mann and he's gotten me into all different types of world music-the latest was Hawaiian slack guitar and Maori music. Also some Paolo Conte. But I knew he didn't like Joni. We've discussed Dylan on several occasions and my concert experience came up. He admitted to "never being much of a fan of hers." Some Bela Bartok comparison came up that I never really understood. Anyhow his wife loves Joni but like many fell out of the loop in the late '70s. So sneaky me decided to play Both Sides Now in the office. A few times went by without a comment, and then last week he finally noticed. "Ooh. Who's singing this?" When I replied Joni, he said, "Joni MItchell. God her voice has changed. I like it much better." I almost wet my pants. So I copied it for him (don't worry, he promises to buy the regular edition March 21) and he took it home to his wife. She loved it but couldn't believe it was Joni. So now she asked me for a list of what Joni's done recently. Question is, what do you-my fellow experts think that someone who's been out of the Joni-loop for over twenty years and who loved the new album would repsond best to? MY first thought is Night Ride Home. Maybe Hits? Jerome ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:47:17 +1100 From: "Alan Lorimer" Subject: RE: I made a BSN conversion! >Question is, what do you-my fellow experts think that someone >who's been out of the Joni-loop for over twenty years and who loved >the new album would respond best to? Jerome, How about "Turbulent Indigo"? I can't think of a "mature" Joni album which would be better for introducing old Joni fans to her new music. Powerful lyrics, stunning music combing the best of the old with the new. You still get some excellent acoustic work while being introduced to the newer VG-8 based songs. On the other hand, I must admit that tracks such as "Slouching Towards Bethlehem" on NRH would be absolutely mind blowing to older Joni fans who haven't heard some of her "newer" music before Alan Lorimer Hawley Beach Tasmania ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:23:48 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni Well Ken, I sort of agree with you - obviously, there's two sides to this discussion that are both valid. I think that anyone who is gay (or a joni mitchell fan) should have a very open mind and therefore not generalise, but at the same time you know what they say about stereotypes... there is often a lot of truth in them. Okay, that's another generalisation, but it's important not to get bogged down in this sort of political correctness because that way we'd spend half our lives trying to justify ourselves. I actually am a bit of a fan of the divas, but in a different sense: people like Joni and Tori Amos, Patti Smith, Bjork, Pj Harvey, Sinead O'Connor - the thinking man's divas you could say, lol. If someone assumed that I was a big fan of Judy Garland just because I'm gay then I would simply say that I'm not. At the same time, I am also beginning to realise that if I was a Judy Garland fan then there would be no need to hide it just to prove a point. If I want to fit a stereotype then I will. Matthew (rock n' roll faggot) NP: Patti Smith Group - 'Easter' - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Cc: Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Viagra, drones, Carol Bayer Sager, gays and straights and Joni > Ross, > I don't think homophobia is intended by anyone making the statements about > what "their" divas are. As a gay man, I have been told to "turn in my card", > whatever that means, because I lack the proper diva-worship. I happen to > agree with Carlton that the VAST MAJORITY of gay men I've met fall into that > same category musically (Madonna, Crystal Waters, Steisand, Garland etc.) > This is not meant to be a judgement of their character, just an observation > of the sign-of-the-times and musical tastes. Why is that homophobic to you? > We all have diva-worship, I hope, as there are many, many brilliant women in > art, music, literature, politics nd thought, we just may disagree about > which divas we worship. And that is a matter of taste. I live in San > Francisco, and have encountered a few gay men here. I have not encountered > that many who appreciate Ms. Mitchell, or know who she is or, worse yet, > confuse her with Judy Collins, Joan Baez, etc. You are lucky to have met two > partners who are Joni-heads. Please don't consider it Americanphobic, but > I've sensed that Europeans are more understanding and open minded to > cultural anomalies such as Joni who transcends the opinion of current taste. > I don't lump ALL Americans into the category of Joni-nonfans (as evidenced by > my participation in this discussion community), just most of them. In this > country, taste in many things is bought and sold, and as you are a fan of > Joni's, you must be aware that this is quite a grand theme for her life and > work these days almost having replaced her ruminatons on love. (This is by > no means a criticism of Joni's work in this regard, she could probably > ruminate on the phonebook in a valid and brilliant way). Music is so > important to me that it would not serve me to be involved with someone > romantically who has no appreciation for Joni. I think that is the point for > many gay men who struggle to seek a partner and encounter men with musical > tastes tht run more toward the Madonna/Streisand/Bette/ etc thing. That is > their frustration. Calling them homophobic for this observation about the > demographics of musical taste, which threatens no one's life, freedom or > happiness, is going a little overboard. Though I feel compassion and empathy > for us all as, with any group that is readily castigated, we should be on > guard when someone's will is being forced upon us. Let's save our > phobia-calling for those issues, and enjoy this discussion of taste and > opinion about the wonder of music and the genius of Joni. > Peace and Love and, if your ex who loves Joni is available and it's okay by > you, I'd love to meet him, > Ken in SF > NP: (appropriately, and not the madonna song) BORDERLINE > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 02:15:47 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: OK, that Daily Mail review in full Yes, a little late, but I finally did it..... Always good to see such positive reactions to Joni and her work, but I'm not too sure about some of the comments in this article. I'll let you all read it first, then add my thoughts afterwards...... "A REAL NORTH AMERICAN BEAUTY - from the beginning to the end of the affair, with passion...by ADRIAN THRILLS JONI MITCHELL - BOTH SIDES NOW (Reprise) **** Long before Shania Twain, Alanis Morissette and Celine Dion, the most widely appreciated Canadian female singer was Joni Mitchell. But, while her musical influence has been acknowledged by many modern vocalists, from madonna to Tori Amos, Mitchell has kept a low profile in recent years, concentrating more on painting than her music. Mitchell's last album of new songs, 1998's Taming The Tiger, reiterated the huge gulf between the folk and jazz veteran and the pop mainstream, with lyrics that voiced her contempt for most aspects of contemporary culture. But Both Sides Now, a suite of romantic songs, is a more positive statement. The album features new versions of standards and show tunes, the same format George Michael used on last year's Songs From The Last Century. But, unlike Michael's selection of personal favourites, Mitchell's record uses North American song to trace the nuances of a love affair, from flirtation and consummation to despair and, eventually, philosophical acceptance. This concept gives Both Sides Now, to be released on February 28, an emotional edge and sense of purpose missing from most covers albums. Recorded in George Martin's London studio, it features a 71-piece symphony orchestra and a big band. But it is Mitchell's subtle, poised vocals which add a freshness to You've Changed, Stormy Weatherand a further ten classic relationship songs. Even the two tracks here from Mitchell's own extensive repertoire, 1972's A Case Of You and the 1967 title track, are revived with great elegance and style. Exploiting the cool and sophisticated tone that has always been her vocal hallmark, the singer examines the passions of an affair without relying on the sentimentality that most singers would have brought to these songs. With lavish strings and piano providing a relaxed backing, the early stages of love are the euphoric inspiration for You're My Thrill (thanks, Joni) and At Last. The latter, a signature tune for blues legend Etta James, is superbly performed, contradicting reports that Mitchell found the song a difficult one. The first hint of turmoil arrives on the brassy, jazzy Comes Love, one of four songs that were once sung by Billie Holliday. But the album's pivotal track is You've Changed, on which Mitchell, accompanied by sweeping violinsand gentle perscussion, pinpoints the moment when romance turns sour. Then the sorrow of a broken heart is explored on Answer Me, My Love, with Wayne Shorter's saxophone adding poignancy, and a melancholy Stormy Weather. The album closes philosophically. I Wish I Were In Love Again, a Rodgers and Hart classic, wittily hints at the probabbility of the cycle repeating itself, while Both Sides Now adds a reflective finale. Jam-packed with outstanding interpretations, this album - the first part of an orchestral trilogy - might not rival fellow Canadian stars Twain, Morissette or Dion in terms of sales. It does, however, reiterate the enduring talent of one of Canada's greatest performers." OK, me again :-) Well, he obviously loves the album, which is clearly a good thing. However, his verdict upon TTT and his perception of her overall strikes me as somehwat wide of the mark, even guilty of the usual same old stereotyping. Notice how many times he mentions Canada and Canadian artists. Note too, how many big names are also dropped all over those first few paragraphs. Perhaps the intention is to draw unbelievers in through association, but I don't think so many other artists' names were necessary. Strangely, despite all this name-dropping, he didn't even mention Bryan Ferry, whose recent covers album is surely the closest in spirit, and also among her peers? It tends to smack of trying to ingratiate Joni and her relevance into the hearts of the younger generation, as if that's either the point of the album or Joni's raison-d'etre. Maybe that's not so bad, but this kind of praise-by-association with hipper, younger acts must only serve to fruther annoy someone like Joni herself. All the usual suspects are wheeled out, Tori, Alanis, Madonna......I almost expected Sheryl, Suzanne and Tracy to be thrown in for good measure. Yes, Joni *has* had an impact on those artsist and goodness knows how many others, but tell us something new...or at least tell us it in an original way! I can't really fault his view of the album...firstly, because I haven't heard it, but also because he makes it sound interesting. His emphasis on the thematic nature of the record is a neat touch, and one that really makes the album sound more enticing. Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:37:36 EST From: NathanLaFraneer@aol.com Subject: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) Hello, Does anybody know if Joni's Painting With Words and Music would ever be available as an audio CD? Also, does anybody have the roster of songs that she does perform in that "intimate concert." I know she starts with "Big Yellow Taxi," and sings "Dreamland" over the closing credits.. but that's about it. Also... um..when it came to people to introduce her...why Rosanna Arquette? Was Rosanna trying to jump-start her career now that she has been overshadowed by Patricia and David? Jeepers. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:56:45 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Daily Mail review The Daily Mail said: > The first hint of turmoil arrives on the brassy, jazzy Comes Love, one > of four songs that were once sung by Billie Holliday. Wow, to think that Billie Holiday is so highly regarded despite having sung only four songs. ;) - --David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:18:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: OK, that Daily Mail review in full In a message dated 2/21/00 8:23:33 PM US Central Standard Time, jason.maloney@virgin.net writes: << It does, however, reiterate the enduring talent of one of Canada's greatest performers." >> Jason, thanks for reprinting this, and also to all of you who have sent in the reviews. I agree with you, it's a great review and that's fine, but it's SO tiresome hearing Joni always qualified as one of the greatest "female", "Canadian", whatever performers, like she's automatically on a lower rung or something. Also let me take this opportunity to say that if you haven't checked out the BSN section of the website, you should do so. Jim is really doing a super job. I especially love the section that details the many other artists who recorded the songs that Joni covers on BSN. Keep up the great work, Jim! Bob, trying to accentuate the positive! ;~) NP: "Amelia", Syracuse 98 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 22:23:30 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Most Likely, a question that has been asked over and over again (SJC) In a message dated 2/21/00 8:48:43 PM US Central Standard Time, NathanLaFraneer@aol.com writes: << Does anybody know if Joni's Painting With Words and Music would ever be available as an audio CD?>> Yes, maybe you just need to ask nicely! ;~) I've got it converted to a 2-CD set and will be glad to share it with you, e-mail me back privately and we can work it out if you're interested. <> Big Yellow Taxi, Just Like This Train, Night Ride Home, The Crazy Cries of Love, Harry's House, Black Crow, Amelia, Hejira, Sex Kills, The Magdalene Laundries, Moon at the Window, Facelift, Why Do Fools Fall in Love?, Trouble Man, Comes Love, Song For Sharon, Woodstock, Dreamland Bob NP: Hejira ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:28:20 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Public Flogging > > So while I would like to see more options for those who have been hurt, I > don't know what they might be. The unfortunate end result is that the > person who felt offended often goes into lurkdom or quits the list. > > Scott > > This whole business of people getting mean-spirited private email from list members has come up before & it really pisses me off royally. Whoever it is that is doing this, JUST WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE??? Ok, yelling's over. I do want to stress to anybody who is out there lurking and afraid to post or who has posted & been burned by these ASSHOLES that those morons perpetrating this nasty, mean, childish, inane behavior are *not* representative of this discussion list! They do not speak for us! They are not what this group is all about! I have said this before & I will say it again, I strongly urge any of you who have been HARRASSED in this manner to IGNORE IT! Don't give the bastards the satisfaction of silencing you or depriving the rest of us of what you have to say. We *want* to hear from you. I've been on this list from the very beginning and although we have had one or two people get on here who obviously wanted to stir up trouble, this group is a supportive and warm group of friendly, good people. Opinionated, naturally. We've all got brains & we use them and there aren't many people on the planet more opinionated than Joni! But! We respect one another and if you have something worthwhile to say, we will respect it. We may disagree with you but we will respect it. Occasionally feathers get ruffled and feelings get hurt. Doesn't that happen in every relationship in life worth having? We work it out, we get over it and we move on. Life is too short and too full of stress as it is. Why waste any energy on bothering to respond to people who only seem to want to inflict hurt? Especially when they aren't physically in your face and you have the choice to delete the rot they're trying to fling at you and move on. Don't give those people that kind of power over you. Ignore them. They probably only want attention anyway. Don't give it to them! Mark in Seattle (off the soap box for now) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:59:23 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: I made a BSN conversion! MY first thought is Night Ride Home. > Maybe Hits? > > Jerome > I think Night Ride Home is an excellent suggestion. It has a nice mix of up & down songs and some really pretty melodies. Turbulent Indigo, though brilliant, might be a bit too much on the dark side. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:03:50 -0500 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: I made a BSN conversion! I nominate Jerome to receive his "They Liked Joni in the 70's, Fell Out of the Loop but I Bought Them Back" JMDL badge. Keep reeling 'em in, Jerome! Heather At 01:56 PM 2/21/00 -0700, Bounced Message wrote: >From: "Jerome Gonzales" >Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 12:44:33 -0800 > >OK, so my boss and I usually discuss music here at work. I got him into >Aimee Mann and he's gotten me into all different types of world >music-the latest was Hawaiian slack guitar and Maori music. Also some >Paolo Conte. But I knew he didn't like Joni. We've discussed Dylan on >several occasions and my concert experience came up. He admitted to >"never being much of a fan of hers." Some Bela Bartok comparison came >up that I never really understood. Anyhow his wife loves Joni but like >many fell out of the loop in the late '70s. So sneaky me decided to >play Both Sides Now in the office. A few times went by without a >comment, and then last week he finally noticed. "Ooh. Who's singing >this?" When I replied Joni, he said, "Joni MItchell. God her voice has >changed. I like it much better." I almost wet my pants. So I copied >it for him (don't worry, he promises to buy the regular edition March >21) and he took it home to his wife. She loved it but couldn't believe >it was Joni. So now she asked me for a list of what Joni's done >recently. Question is, what do you-my fellow experts think that someone >who's been out of the Joni-loop for over twenty years and who loved the >new album would repsond best to? MY first thought is Night Ride Home. >Maybe Hits? > >Jerome > > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #75 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?