From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #69 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, February 17 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 069 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? [Joseph Palis ] Re: BSN complaint department ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni's "God" notes [dsk ] Re: The new album: A Latecomer [dsk ] Re: Joni's many fans ["Kakki" ] Re: The Genius Of Joni Mitchell - one liner [Jason Maloney ] Re: The new album: A Latecomer ["Reuben Bell" ] ravaged [Jerry Notaro ] A strange kind of Blue [Steve Dulson ] Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? [Don Rowe ] BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! [Louis Lynch ] BOTH SIDES, SORRY... [Louis Lynch ] Re: Tax Free ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: BSN complaint department [Phyliss Ward ] Re: BSN complaint department [Phyliss Ward ] Re: BOTH SIDES, SORRY... [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Tax Free [Don Rowe ] Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: Tax Free [Linda Worster ] Re: Tax Free ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: A strange kind of Blue ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Tax Free [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Tax Free ["Catherine McKay" ] BSN REVIEW [Louis Lynch ] Re: BSN defect solution? ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: new to list ["Mark T. Domyancich" ] Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? ["Matthew Hall" ] RE: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! [Louis Lynch ] Re: BSN Packaging [Johnwe2@aol.com] Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? ["lpeakes" ] Re: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? ["Reuben Bell" ] Re: Just got it this week [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns [Bounced Message ] what is STAS??!?!?! [Joseph Davis ] AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! [Joseph Davis ] Re: what is STAS??!?!?! [catman ] Re: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] madonna, BSN package/impressions [BarBearUh ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:28:37 +0800 (JST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? I would love to her hear sing "Blue Motel Room". I like that song and though I am not exactly a fan of Madonna, I like the husky sexiness of her voice that I am sure she will use to best effect to that song. Another thread: standard songs I would love Joni to sing are: The Folks Who Live On The Hill Two For the Road Happy Endings Joseph (exactly 6 hours with 1/8 inch hair) On Wed, 16 Feb 2000 NathanLaFraneer@aol.com wrote: > Hi, my name is Ed, I am new to the list. Hello hello. > > Just a quick question, and an odd one: All week, I have been trying to think > what song of Joni's that Madonna could do a cover of successfully. (If she > can do American Pie ... she can surely do better than that!) I would > appreciate it if I only got serious answers, and not people saying, "Who > cares?" If you don't care, don't respond. > > The one song I would have a kick out of Madonna covering would be "Don Juan's > Reckless daughter" but maybe Madonna wouldn't like it because of the words > ... but she could sure do a lot with that beat. > > Any other ideas? > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 01:13:48 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: BSN complaint department Howard wrote: >I got the album the day it was released, paid 40 some bucks for it. I was so looking forward to the >"original lithographs" suitable for framing. One CD+Four postcards+43 bucks= one pissed off >customer I feel completely ripped off. I had to look up in the dictionary what a lithograph is just >make sure I wasn't crazy. And maybe these fit into the (loose) definition of one, but they are not >suitable for framing--and even if you think they are, are they really worth 30 extra dollars? Yeah, the "lithos" in the Night Ride Home special edition are more like real lithos. Maybe Lindsay or Phyliss can refresh my memory, but I seem to remember much finer lithos as far as paper quality in the prototype shown us in December. I was also surprised at the card stock prints. I distinctly recall the tissue paper separators, like were in the NRH SE. Maybe the record company wanted to cut costs. > (The photos >in the special edition Night Ride Home are far superior--in quality and content--and that >cost less than >ten dollars more.) True, but that *was* nine years ago and it didn't have out-sized fancy packaging. The artist portfolio "case" is CD size and rather cheaply made itself. > I love her music (altho I am a bit lukewarm on this CD) but this packaging is just not right. What the > hell am I supposed to do with that hat box now? Keep it as a special memento of Joni's final album? (Just kidding, I hope ;-) Personally, I love it. I'd rather spend $40 on something like this anyday than spending roughly the same amount of money on two CDs that I ended up lukewarm about (and this happens a lot with me). > This may be material that has already been covered. (I can't believe there aren't scads of diehard fans > who felt taken on this one.) But I had to vent some steam. What a scam. I feel bad for the disappointed, especially since I was one of the ones raving about it. But it does not seem to be exactly as originally conceived. I'm not sure where Joni's artistic wishes end and Reprise's practical business decisions begin. I've been thinking of all the scratched versions. I've played my CD about 10 times now and still have not had a single problem. Record companies often have more than one manufacturing plant, usually located in rural areas of the U.S. where they can pay lower salaries to their personnel. It seems that the problems involve more than scratches - the frequent complaint of problems, especially on the Case of You cut, leads me to think there was a flaw in the actually manufacturing process of "burning" the CD. It may be that all the defective CDs were made at one particular manufacturing location that goofed up and that the "good" CDs that some of us have received were made at and shipped out from another location. As for the music, I really love it and have no complaints. The big orchestration does not bother me - it reminds me of the big, sweeping romantic music in the old 30s and 40s movies I used to watch as a kid. I like the grandness of it all. I like pared down, but I also like lush, too. I think her voice is the loveliest it has been in a long time. My favorites are Case of You, Don't Go To Strangers, Sometimes I'm Happy, I Wish I Were in Love Again and Both Sides Now. And you all know what I think of the paintings - heehee. Kakki NP: Joni - Sometimes I'm Happy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 04:30:08 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni's "God" notes Emily Kirk Gray wrote: > ... made me start thinking of > which of joni's "notes" i love especially. any thoughts? ...until love sssucksss me back that way is my favorite (although maybe these sounds are Joni's "devil" notes) oh oh my my :-) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 05:46:47 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: The new album: A Latecomer "H.D. Motyl" wrote: > I feel completely ripped off. I had to look up in the > dictionary what a lithograph is just make sure I > wasn't crazy. And maybe these fit into the (loose) > definition of one, but they are not suitable for > framing--and even if you think they are, are they > really worth 30 extra dollars? > ...What a scam. I didn't like the packaging much either, even though I really wanted to (after all it IS Joni and I did spend $54 on it). I listened to the CD to see if was OK before opening the wrapped package inside. But looking just at the one "litho" I could see, the painting of Joni's back with so much of the area on the card taken up by the frame and burgundy moire background, I thought "I don't want these things." And then the CD skipped and there was no question that I'd return it. I'll be very happy when the regular release is available so I can listen to the music again. Calling the reproductions lithos is really a stretch here. It's like calling every picture in a magazine a litho just because it's printed using the oil-and-water-don't-mix idea. Marketing wise, I guess calling them lithos sounds better than saying tiny little pictures. Don't know if I'd call this a scam, but as I was listening to the skipping CD and looking at the awkwardly drawn painting it felt like Joni (or someone) is taking advantage of her die-hard fans, knowing such fans would spend extra money on this no matter what. Although I don't know if it would actually be a big money-maker; must have cost a lot to get those special boxes made. At the very least, I didn't have the usual, simple "oh boy, a new Joni!!!" feeling. Maybe I will on March 21. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 02:07:08 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni's many fans Clark wrote: > I've posted about this on the gays and straights thing before, but the vast > majority of men I know who love Joni are almost all straight who fell in love > with her and are haunted by both her physical beauty as well as her artistry. > Most of those men are musicians, or at least musicologists, who know just > what an innovator and original she is. All the jazz musicians I know respect > Joni and know her music. But almost all musicians are romantics of some > kind, have some poetry in their soul, and those are the kinds of people > whether they are male, female, straight or gay, who will see themselves in > the genius of Joni Mitchell. This has been exactly my experience. All my musician boyfriends and friends have always considered Joni, Goddess Numero Uno and The Alpha and Omega of songwriting, period. And the more well-known musicians I've had the opportunity to speak with - Jimmy Webb, Graham Nash and Mark Isham - also think Joni is "IT", hands down. > It wasn't until I joined this list that I met so many gay brothers who understand the Siquomb thing. I had a good gay male friend in high school who felt nothing for Joni but adored Judy Collins and Mama Cass. Fortunately I loved Judy and Cass, too, so there was no argument as to what to put on the turntable. Another gay male friend in college would scream at me to turn it off when I played Joni's albums. The frat boys in college would not abide her, either, yet one-on-one they would pull out those early, sensitive James Taylor albums and put them on when the other "brothers" weren't around. I actually found a Ladies of the Canyon album in one guy's collection. He immediately tried to "disown" it and said that it must have been his sister's album and it must have gotten mixed in with his stuff accidently. He immediately insisted I take possession of it. I still have it ;-D Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:47:58 +0000 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Re: The Genius Of Joni Mitchell - one liner Hi Cassy, Jim and anyone else thinking.."why didn't he include the damn URL!" ;o) Yeah, sorry about that....doh!...guess you can tell I've never worked in sales ;-) I do it all the time....maybe I subconsciously don't want people to see it?! The mainpage is at : http://freespace.virgin.net/jason.maloney/index1.htm Click on "Enter", and follow the link to "The Genius Of Joni Mitchell"...... Thanks to a friend of mine, I've learnt how to compress some of the larger image files for quicker downloading....including a pretty big fullspread STAS artwork that was originally 161K. Apparently, my new front page was taking too long to load. Hope you enjoy it, Jason. cassy wrote: > I would have loved to check out your site Jason, but you didn't include the > URL! > > Cassy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:43:19 -0500 From: Erin Stoy Subject: new to list I have never felt such a connection to any other artist in my life as I do with Joni. I've been listening to her since I was 14, when my dad told me that "Woodstock" and "The Circle Game" were not originals by CSNY and Tom Rush, respectively. Consequently, I became enamored with Ladies of The Canyon. Nowadays, I must say that if I had to choose a faavorite, Hejira would be it. To write all the reasons would take hours. But Song for Sharon is just such an amazing piece of work... I have 3 questions for the group: 1. How exactly is Hejira pronounced? I have heard countless different ways! 2. What does the word Siquomb mean? 3. Wally Breese, in one of his last writings for the official Joni web site, alluded to Joni's own health problems. Anyone know what these are, and how she is doing? I know she has residual problems due to a post-polio syndrome. Thanks. Erin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 06:26:28 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: The new album: A Latecomer Debra wrote: > >I didn't like the packaging much either, even though I really wanted to >(after all it IS Joni and I did spend $54 on it). I listened to the CD >to see if was OK before opening the wrapped package inside. I kind of feel the same way. I bought mine at Tower Records last Tuesday. No scratches, the pictures and lyric sheets were a little beat up because they were not shrink wrapped or held together or anything. The fabric on the box (and this may be kind of picky) is also glued on very haphazardly, and there are big glue blobs all over everything. The album itself, is superb. And that is what is most important to me. I ordered several copies to give to friends, but plan to return them and get the regular release when its available. My verdict on the limited edition package: great idea, poorly executed. 2 1/2 stars. Reuben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:49:56 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: ravaged I think Eric, in his own way, was on to something. WMNF is playing BSN as I type. The dj referred to The New York Times review. He commented on the reviewer's use of the word "ravaged" and took great issue with the word. "Transformed" he said was a much more appropriate description. Then he went on to highly praise the cd. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:18:24 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: A strange kind of Blue Helen wrote: >a copy of Blue that he owns that is rather >unusual. It's vinyl, and everything looks fine, but both sides of the >record are the same, ie. Side 1. The stickers are correct, Side 1 and Side >2, with the correct track listings >...Anyone else ever heard of anything like this, and is it rare enough to be >valuable (he was just curious, he's not interested in selling)? I have a copy of this, too. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:21:08 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? Hi Ed and welcome to the fray. I was hoping for a Madonna appearance on the long-rumored "ttibute" album for some time. I think there's lots of stuff in Joni's collected works she'd handle well -- including: My Secret Place (not sure who we'd get to replace Peter Gabriel ...) Sex Kills (afterall, Maddy's book nearly killed HER career ...) Free Man In Paris (as long as she keeps those French Empire costumes from the MTV Music awards in the closet!) Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:21:38 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! Hello all, I am chiming in, or harping in. I just received my copy of Both Sides Now, from Amazon.com. So here's my totally unbiased opinion as it plays through: THE MUSIC IS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!! A-PLUS-PLUS-PLUS-PLUS. Worth at least $50, and then some!!!! I was so worried that I would not like it after hearing the reviews about a "ravaged" voice, reading the list posts, and being oh-so-disappointed with the VG8-induced dullness of "Taming the Tiger." (I can understand a musician's fascination with a new instrument, but after listening to TTT three or four times, I put it aside and haven't been tempted to listen since.) BUT THIS ALBUM IS A GREAT WORK. The orchestration is lovely -- real class. And as far as Joni's voice, I wish I could sing one iota as well as she does. Her voice always has been beautiful, and it gets more beautiful every year. She's singing jazz even better than she did on Mingus, despite the smoking. The package itself. Oh who cares! The music is gorgeous! In love again, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 07:47:53 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: BOTH SIDES, SORRY... I listen to my copy of the limited edition BSN release. I hear "Case of You." I think, "Oh wow." I listen some more. I think "Oh wow oh wow oh wow." I go to amazon.com. I order a whole bunch of them. I send them out as gifts. I realize that I may have bought up more than my fair share. I think, "Too bad." Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:00:00 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Tax Free Jerry tells me: [Rod Steiger as the preacher in Joni's Tax Free"] was recorded specifically for the record, unlike Jim Backus which was taken >from Rebel Without a Cause. > OK, i'll bite. Huh? Jim Backus, Rebel Without a Cause? Whatcha talkin' 'bout? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:19:40 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: BSN complaint department Kakki wrote: > Yeah, the "lithos" in the Night Ride Home special edition are more like real > lithos. Maybe Lindsay or Phyliss can refresh my memory, but I seem to > remember much finer lithos as far as paper quality in the prototype shown us > in December. I didn't actually hold them or anything so I'm not sure but I don't remember them being semi-glossy like they ended up being. As for what to do with the box - for now, mine is sitting beautifully on my coffee table. What a great conversation piece it has turned out to be! > -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:19:40 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: BSN complaint department Kakki wrote: > Yeah, the "lithos" in the Night Ride Home special edition are more like real > lithos. Maybe Lindsay or Phyliss can refresh my memory, but I seem to > remember much finer lithos as far as paper quality in the prototype shown us > in December. I didn't actually hold them or anything so I'm not sure but I don't remember them being semi-glossy like they ended up being. As for what to do with the box - for now, mine is sitting beautifully on my coffee table. What a great conversation piece it has turned out to be! > -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:24:54 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: BOTH SIDES, SORRY... Harper Lou writes: << I go to amazon.com. I order a whole bunch of them. I send them out as gifts. I realize that I may have bought up more than my fair share. >> Don't worry Louis, there's quite a few missing from Amazon.com's BSN stock. We have a total of 6 copies at my office right now. My brother and I both placed orders with them, they were defective so we ordered the replacements. In the meantime we both found clean copies at the local B&N, and it was too late to stop Amazon.com from shipping. So while we wait for the return shipping sticker, we both have the clean copies that we are listening to in our offices and we have the 2 bad copies plus 2 unopened replacements. I feel like a BSN hog! Jimmy, who wants to know want what Joni songs Lou plays on the harp. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:27:14 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Tax Free > > OK, i'll bite. Huh? Jim Backus, Rebel Without a > Cause? Whatcha talkin' > 'bout? > Jim Backus played father to James Dean in RWOAC (whee! new acronym!) ... I think there's a sample of dialogue somewhere on DED, but it's not credited (at least on my LP, which is all I have for reference at the moment). Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:41:48 -0500 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? I couldn't believe it when i thumbed through the current issue of Performing Songwriter on the newstands yesterday. The issue is dedicated to women in music, the lead article being "A Century of Women in Music." There is a list, compiled by Ruth Adkins Robinson but NO MENTION of Joni! They are taking a survey to publish in the next issue. Please take the time to fill it out. Go to the link below, click on current issue, and then to the link about "A Century of Women in Music." http://www.performingsongwriter.com/ Also, I sent the following letter to the editor to lydia@performingsongwriter.com To the editor: You must be joking! How can you even consider publishing an edition on "A Century Of Women In Music" without a mention of Joni Mitchell? She is the top of the line when it comes to songwriters of either sex. For four decades she has been courageously mining new territory and is undoubtedly the leading influence on female songwriters today. Bill Dollinger ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 08:45:05 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: BOTH SIDES, SORRY... On second listen, everyone, BSN is even better! Jimmy, Glad to know I'm not the only record hog. However, I was much worse with Night Ride Home -- I bought every shelf copy from four different record stores, and I lived in New York City at the time! As far as playing Joni Mitchell songs on the harp, I have tried all of them. Some don't work at all, and there are some, such as "Woman of Heart and Mind" that I don't sing because I'm a guy. Funny, at my hotel gig last evening, I asked around for requests, and one man requested as much Joni Mitchell as I could play. Little did he know who he was dealing with, ha ha... I played a mini-concert for him. Over the years, my favorite songs on the harp (and voice) have been: You Turn Me On, I'm a Radio (I love it!) Urge for Going Case of You River Dreamland (with drumming on the soundboard) Slouching Toward Bethlehem (real title?) Both Sides Now Off Night Backstreet Magdalene Laundries Bird that Whistles (Korinna Korinna) Cotton Avenue Blue Motel Room I also do a little rock and roll rumble medley and throw in "Why Do Fools Fall in Love" and "You're So Square". I sound a bit like Elvis and used to do a complete Elvis set, until he died and all the impersonators made doing Elvis a weird and unsightly thing. So now I do an Elvis-impersonator-doing-Joni-doing-Elvis thing, which works. I'm an unusual harp player, striking it more like a percussion instrument such as a piano instead of plucking it like a stringed instrument. I tend to add and drop Joni songs from my list regularly. Because I do so many Renaissance shows, I often spend so much time learning special music or orchestral scores that I forget the accompaniments and have to refresh the memory banks. I've never had a complete set of Joni songs prepared at the same time because I'm just too busy. Regards, Harper Lou (apologizing if this should be NJC, but hey, I quit smoking recently, so now I have an excuse for everything!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:46:07 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Tax Free Don wrote: >Jim Backus played father to James Dean in RWOAC (whee! >new acronym!) ... I think there's a sample of dialogue >somewhere on DED, but it's not credited (at least on >my LP, which is all I have for reference at the >moment). The sample is on S&L. I just checked both my CD and my LP and don't see a credit. When I first heard the album, I'd never seen the movie. When I saw the movie finally, I got very excited at that scene- like they were quoting Joni or something! :~) Linda ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:51:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Tax Free >Jerry said (about Rod Steiger's part on Tax Free): > > >It was recorded specifically for the record, unlike Jim Backus which was >taken > >from Rebel Without a Cause. > Helen said: >I had a weird moment the other day with the intro to Shadows and Light. >I had been listening to S&L (on repeat), and stopped to go do something >else >just as the intro started again. I turned on the TV (out of interest) as I >went past, and the same scene (James Dean and Jim Backus) was playing at >that moment! Coincidence, or Joni serendipity at work again?! Now, Jerry, you can forget my previous duhhh-question. I figured this MIGHT be what you were talking about. I didn't know it was Jim Backus, nor that it was Rebel without a cause, but I guessed it was probably something like that. Does the original S&L tell you this stuff? I just got the CD not too long ago, and there's not much in the way of credits, just a bunch of photographs that are hard to make out and a list of musicians - that's about it - on the other hand, it does include the "extra" songs that I understand may have been missing in the original release. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:01:29 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: A strange kind of Blue Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > > > I was chatting with a friend of mine the other day (the only friend I >know > > > who likes Joni) and he mentioned a copy of Blue that he owns that is >rather > > > unusual. It's vinyl, and everything looks fine, but both sides of the > > > record are the same, ie. Side 1. Randy responded: >Once I >got a Who album that had somebody else on the other side. >For whatever reason, these type of misspressings don't seem >to have much value as collectibles. I got the CD of Fairport Convention's Liege and Lief. The CD is fine but the little book that's in it has a couple of pages that were meant to go with ANOTHER (non-Fairport) CD. How annoying. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:10:56 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Tax Free Catherine McKay wrote: > I just got the CD not too > long ago, and there's not much in the way of credits, just a bunch of > photographs that are hard to make out and a list of musicians - that's about > it - on the other hand, it does include the "extra" songs that I understand > may have been missing in the original release. They were on the original vinyl release, missing on the single cd U.S. release, but on the Japanese import, and then, finally restored on the new double HDCD release. Black Crow 3:52 Don's Solo 4:04 Free Man in Paris 3:23 Jerry np: Shawn Colvin - Fat City ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:23:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Tax Free >They were on the original vinyl release, missing on the single cd U.S. >release, >but on the Japanese import, and then, finally restored on the new double >HDCD >release. > > Black Crow 3:52 > Don's Solo 4:04 > Free Man in Paris 3:23 Ripoff, ripoff, ripoff! Jeez, don'tya hate that? I guess I just lucked in when I bought the CD because I got the HDCD version without even being aware of it (bought it through CDNow and as usual, don't pay enough attention to that kind of stuff) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 09:27:37 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: BSN REVIEW From the Orange County Register and Harrisburg Patriot-News MITCHELL JAZZ CD DRIPS WITH FINESSE Three years ago, the incomparable Joni Mitchell appeared at a unique benefit concert for Don Henley's Thoreau Institute at Los Angeles' Wiltern Theater. Dubbed Stormy Weather, the one-off event featured a top-notch roster of novelles chanteuses, from Steve Nicks and Natalie Cole to Gwen Stefani and Bjork, delivering robust rethinkings of pop standards. The reclusive Mitchell closed the show -- and, shockingly, offered the least memorable performance. Given how ill-suited the material was to her increasingly esoteric, anti-verse-chorus-verse style, it's somewhat surprising to hear Mitchell in rare form on "Both Sides Now," an elegant and often moving 12-track collection of jazz-era greats. Clearly some of the success has to do with the selections: "You're My Thrill," "You've Changed," "Don't Worry 'Bout Me," the infinitely transmutable "Stormy Weahter" -- these are moodly, forlorn numbers that all but howl for Joni's now-cigarette-husky seductiveness. Where once she might have approached these tracks with chirpy confidence, now she sidles up to them with a ruminative voice that has gone to the other side of regret and come back to share details. None of her choices here is upbeat, and even the obvious ones (Etta James' signature tune "At Last," for instance) are reworked so that their foreboding nature is as front and center as their timeless melodies. And in two remarkable instances, Mitchell toys with two of her own classics '' "A Case of You," from 1971's "Blue," whose lyrics still read like a latter-day Cole Porter, and the title track, that '60s war-horse that Judy Collins made famous. It's on "Both Sides Now," slowed to a haunting dirge tempo, its transitions enriched with melancholy strings, that Mitchell proves she can take a vanity concept and wring some magic out of it. This is deeply engaging listening, no doubt. It's just not as daring as we've come to expect from Joni Mitchell. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:48:51 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: BSN defect solution? I don't think there's anything we can do now because Reprise is already working on a solution about this. I think I read this on JM.com last night. I hope their solution is a worthy one, although it's gonna be interesting to see what they do with (is it?) 50,000 scratched-up CDs. At 11:34 PM -0500 2/16/00, BarBearUh wrote: >hiya joniphiles! i've been trying to catch up on this year's digests >(seems impossible to me now 'cause you guys are so damn prolific!). >hope you're all well and having a good time with the new record. i got >to a bunch of posts about the packaging defect and am wondering if >anyone has had any luck with replacements. i had a strange experience >with mine. i played it once and it was fine. on second playing, it >started skipping. i took it out of the player and took a look at it and >couldn't believe how badly it was scratched up. i cleaned it a little >and it seems to be ok, but i'm still not happy with this scratched >costly copy. i'm wondering if there's a way to exchange the disc >without having to ship the box back out or if there's a web site/email >address that can be accessed for complaints. can anyone help? > >barbara >np: ani difranco, to the teeth Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:53:36 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: new to list I imagine this will be answered a dozen times, but: > >1. How exactly is Hejira pronounced? I have heard countless different >ways! Hedge-ear-uh. For the longest time I called it heh-gy-ruh! >2. What does the word Siquomb mean? She Is Queen Undisputedly Of Mind Beauty---that's Joni! Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:59:25 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: VLJC: Madonna Does Joni? I reckon her voice would really suit 'come in from the cold' She might miss out a few verses just to make it her own, but I think she'd really do this one well. She could have some fun with those backing vocals too. Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 12:57:18 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Re: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! At 7:21 AM -0800 2/17/00, Louis Lynch wrote: >And as far as Joni's voice, I wish I could sing one iota as well as she >does. Her voice always has been beautiful, and it gets more beautiful every >year. She's singing jazz even better than she did on Mingus, despite the >smoking. I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is better because she had control over all of the singing, and she wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:11:40 -0500 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! As long as we're talking about Mingus I'd like to mention that Ross Porter (the guy who did the infamous interview with Joni, on the CBC last week) played 2 songs off of that album not to mention Claire Martin's version of Be Cool last night on his jazz show 'After Hours'. Glad to see he's not holding a grudge. "Mark T. Domyancich" wrote: > At 7:21 AM -0800 2/17/00, Louis Lynch wrote: > >And as far as Joni's voice, I wish I could sing one iota as well as she > >does. Her voice always has been beautiful, and it gets more beautiful every > >year. She's singing jazz even better than she did on Mingus, despite the > >smoking. > > I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on > BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is > better because she had control over all of the singing, and she > wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. > > Mark Domyancich > Harpua@revealed.net > http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:13:04 -0800 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: BOTH SIDES NOW NOW NOW NOW!!!!! Realizing that it's been almost two months without a cigarette while Joni Mitchell chain smokes and still sounds great, Harper Lou answers Mark Domyancich's musical question.... Actually, Mark, you're pretty much right. Joni Mitchell's singing on Mingus (especially "Dry Cleaner") is out of the world. And you make some very cogent and incisive points. But so what? You can't be 100% right because it was my idea in the first place, so nyah, nyah, nyah. And besides that, you're a homophobic racist _____ Jonatha-listening NJC-writer, too! And that blank line, there, well you can just fill it in yourself, buster, because I don't see why should I waste MY time trying to think up names to call YOU! Oh, and the nicotine withdrawal is going just fine, thank you, so just pass the potato chips, then shut up and sit down, now. Because I'm feeling really grouchy and I'm not one to be argued with today unless you like the sound of your own bones breaking, Love and firebombs, Harper Lou At 7:21 AM -0800 2/17/00, Louis Lynch wrote: >And as far as Joni's voice, I wish I could sing one iota as well as she >does. Her voice always has been beautiful, and it gets more beautiful every >year. She's singing jazz even better than she did on Mingus, despite the >smoking. I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is better because she had control over all of the singing, and she wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) From: JJM Subject: Just got it this week Well, this is my second post in a 6 month period of time. I just got the new CD from Wherehouse Music in impeccable condition. I really was very impressed. I was expecting Joni's voice and a contemporary sound, but actually, there is a wonderful Joni accent on the instrumentation. It makes me feel like the old tunes were flavored with her alternate tunings!! I loved it because she does a fantastic job and putting her own stamp to the classics. As far as her voice goes, I don't understand the fuss. She has so much talent in so many other ways as a musician and artist, why would anyone want to focus on where her voice has gone in the past 10 years or more? Yes, we notice when there is a change, but we overlook the minor stuff when we're talking about a true artist, don't we? - -Juliette. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:48:56 EST From: Johnwe2@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Packaging I too, am less than thrilled with the packaging, but love the album. Although the paintings are ok, I would rather see photos of the recording sessions, etc. Also a torch singer type photo would have really fit the bill for the cover and illustrated cd. A while back, Anita Baker had a limited edition CD that looked like the old 78's, kind of bound like a book, with the brown paper sleeve for the CD to slip into. Something like that would have been really cool, and also more practical. Next time JM puts out a limited edition, I hope the JMDL has final say on any packaging...I know wishful thinking :) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 14:51:48 -0500 From: "lpeakes" Subject: Re: Performing Songwriter list ---- Where's Joni??? Dude - that list was just one issue's worth - looks like they're doing it with different editors - Joni's bound to be in one of the issues this year - I noticed this list gave a nod to a lot of women in the industry - it takes a lot of people to put out a song (Joni Mitchell's been known to cast a jaundiced eye toward the factory-like-assembly line aspects of "the star-maker machinery") Thanks for the address - filled out the survey (with Joni tops on the list) - I also mentioned Meredith Monk, Carla Bley, Dinah Washington, & June Tabor ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:03:50 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? How many Lithographs is everyone getting? The Reprise site shows four but I only found three when I opened my CD now package. One of the Lithographs has two big spots.....what looks like glue marks. (?) The inside black round part is ratty looking and torn. Part of it looks like it was sliced with a knife. Anyone else's? The CD does have a few scratches. Not too bad looking tho........I haven't played it yet. Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:06:45 -0500 From: "cassy" Subject: Joni Unplugged and Jamming I recently bought a CD from Ebay called "Joni Mitchell Unplugged and Jamming Volume 3" It is a compilation of several events... A BBC studio appearance from 1970 with James Taylor: That Song About the Midway, The Gallery, Rainy Day Man and Steamroller (James Taylor), The Priest, Carey, Carolina on My Mind (JT), California, For Free (duet with JT), Circle Game (duet with JT) You Can Close Your Eyes (duet with JT) Mariposa Folk, Festival 1969: Night In The City, Both Sides Now and Chelsea Morning FolkloreTV 1970: A Case of You At times the quality is not too good (Night in the City-Mariposa) but overall it's a really good CD. What I'm wondering is whether this is a bootleg? If it is it's really well-done and a fabulous addition to my collection. Cassy NP: Tim Buckley "Greetings From L.A." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:15:08 PST From: "Reuben Bell" Subject: Re: BSN Lithos. How Many In The Package? 3 or 4? Laura wrote: >How many Lithographs is everyone getting? >The Reprise site shows four but I only found >three when I opened my CD now package. >One of the Lithographs has two big spots.....what >looks like glue marks. (?) >The inside black round part is ratty looking >and torn. Part of it looks like it was sliced >with a knife. Anyone else's? Laura, Run (don't walk) to the Post Office and send it back. I'm not a send-it-back kind of person. I don't complain about the food in restaraunts. I don't bitch at the movies when the sound goes out. I'm pretty easy going. But, this really is getting out of hand. It seems like every time Joni releases an album, there is some cosmic SNAFU that screws her up. I bet she's gonna be Pissed when she finds out about all of this. Don't keep it. Its broken. $50 is too much to blow on poorly manufactured crap. Copy the CD, though, so you can listen to it until the new one comes. Reuben ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:29:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Joni Unplugged and Jamming cassy wrote: > I recently bought a CD from Ebay called "Joni Mitchell Unplugged and Jamming > Volume 3" It is a compilation of several events... > > A BBC studio appearance from 1970 with James Taylor: That Song About the > Midway, The Gallery, Rainy Day Man and Steamroller (James Taylor), The > Priest, Carey, Carolina on My Mind (JT), California, For Free (duet with > JT), Circle Game (duet with JT) You Can Close Your Eyes (duet with JT) > > Mariposa Folk, Festival 1969: Night In The City, Both Sides Now and Chelsea > Morning > > FolkloreTV 1970: A Case of You > > At times the quality is not too good (Night in the City-Mariposa) but > overall it's a really good CD. What I'm wondering is whether this is a > bootleg? If it is it's really well-done and a fabulous addition to my > collection. Yes, Cassy, this is a bootleg and should not be offered for sale on ebay. Resales of legitimately released cd's, where the artist has already been compensated, is another matter. Jerry np: Maura O'Connell - A Real Life Story ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:45:25 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Critics Found an interesting quote from Nietzsche (the philosopher, not the cat) today- "Insects sting, not in malice, but because they want to live. It is the same with critics; they desire our blood, not our pain." And from Samuel Butler - "The test of a good critic is whether he knows when and how to believe on insufficient evidence" Kakki NP: Joni - Comes Love ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:52:33 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Just got it this week In a message dated 2/17/00 1:27:43 PM US Central Standard Time, tiaj99@yahoo.com writes: << She has so much talent in so many other ways as a musician and artist, why would anyone want to focus on where her voice has gone in the past 10 years or more? Yes, we notice when there is a change, but we overlook the minor stuff when we're talking about a true artist, don't we? >> But, Juliette, on BSN all she's giving us is VOICE. On her previous releases you could dwell on her playing or her songs, but here we're getting no new songs so there's nothing to analyze there. So what's left to discuss is her voice. Bob, enjoying BSN but still holding out for new songs... NP: Days of the New, "Weapon & The Wound" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:54:12 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns From: "Happy The Man" Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 15:00:40 -0600 I was kicking around a music store and "Help Me" comes on but couldn't figure out who the singer was. Wynonna on her new album. Which bugs me because she doesn't really do anything to make it Wynonna's version. I was returning for the second time my copy of "Both Sides Now" to CD Now or whenever we ship it to you. Both were scratched so I sought long and hard for a phone number. Immediately I was put on hold only to listen to some dude singing "Comes Love". Dude are the stars aligned or are my hemorrhoids acting up. Peace, Craig NR: Sun also rises - Hemmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 16:54:46 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: In The Same Vein... Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:43:06 -0800 (PST) From: mystery touch Slightly off topic, but with BSN ringing in our ears, I thought I'd point out another release along the same lines that I enjoy. If Joni was my "music queen" of the century, Bryan Ferry was my king... and late last year, he released an album entitled "As Time Goes By." All the material chosen for the release is 1930s stuff, and the arrangements and performances are superb. Bryan did a very fine job of allowing the songs to breathe a bit; the vocal style is very different for him, and I can't tell if it's simply the natural aging process or if he's mimicking the vocal style of the era he pays tribute to. No matter... in either instance, I truly enjoyed this album. I'd guess many here will as well. Regards to all! Craig ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:59:21 -0600 From: Joseph Davis Subject: what is STAS??!?!?! I've gone through her catalog, and STILL haven't figgered out what STAS stands for? HELP ME!! (no, I'm not falling) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 18:23:16 -0600 From: Joseph Davis Subject: AAAAAAHHHHHHHH! okay - thanks to all who answered that question for me! NOW, I can go gym it up in peace! hehehehehe ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2000 00:24:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: what is STAS??!?!?! Song To A Seagull-the name of her first album. Tho there are those that think her first album is eponymous. Joseph Davis wrote: > I've gone through her catalog, and STILL haven't figgered out what > STAS stands for? HELP ME!! (no, I'm not falling) - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:05:45 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Wynonna sings "Help Me"! and CD NOW Returns Craig said: << I was kicking around a music store and "Help Me" comes on but couldn't figure out who the singer was. Wynonna on her new album. Which bugs me because she doesn't really do anything to make it Wynonna's version. >> Well, we can all pass judgement before too long as this will be going on the covers collection I'm working on. Thanks Laura the coupon queen for this one! Bob NP: They Might Be Giants, "Chess Piece Face" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 22:21:15 -0500 From: BarBearUh Subject: madonna, BSN package/impressions couldn't resist this thing on madonna, who i have vehemently detested throughout her entire career until 'ray of light', which shows many rays of a promising future. she'll never come close to the depth and complexity of a joni lyric, but she's trying at least. if nothing else, her voice has gotten a lot better. anyhow, i digress... i think "number one" would be the perfect madonna cover, and would give it a great sense of irony. it almost seems sacrilegious for me to admit this, but i think she could do a nice job on "sweet bird", seeing how she's all into buddhism these days ;-). Mark D. wrote: > I disagree. Joni's singing on Mingus is so much better than it is on > BSN (yes, I have listened to it). I think her singing on Mingus is > better because she had control over all of the singing, and she > wasn't singing something that someone had previously written. complete agreement! i think her singing on mingus is the absolute best it ever was has been will be. it's a brave album that i like a lot; it'll never be my favorite, but i think it's a great great achievement. on that record, her instrument is as controlled and refined as it ever got before the cigarette damage kicked in. which leads me to BSN. i'm a little reluctant to review it quite yet 'cause i've only had a few listens, but it could be another month or two before i post again, so i might as well be obnoxious enough to forge ahead.... the packaging thing is rather disgraceful. i think the packaging is nice, but worth $25, not $45. "lithographs"???? pullleaase. if you're gonna print 'em like they're standard postcards, they at least ought to be big enough "to frame". the paintings are competent, but i think joni should think twice about quitting her day job (not that she need worry about her financial future). if she just took the time out of her day that she spends complaining about the record business and applied it to her passion, she could probably be a better painter. i just adore the song "both sides now". the original version is just simply out of my range - i don't like the high girly voice and i no longer appreciate the innocence of it. coming from this mature voice and this more worldly perspective, it just bowls me over. i'm still on the fence about "case of you" - the melody is so addictive, but i miss some of the innocence and rebellion of the original there. the covers are all over the place for me. sometimes i find the orchestration way too over the top and outdated. they're very nelson riddle, but she isn't frank sinatra and can't come up with the chops that compete with it. i want to use the word competent again. it's a very skillful album (and i certainly think it runs rings around TTT), but if i compare her covers to someone like betty carter or cassandra wilson or ella fitzgerald or frank sinatra i just can't say that she's bringing anything new or fresh to the form. it's lovely to hear joni singing this stuff, no doubt i can dig it; it's just in the big picture it seems little more than a blip on the screen. it adds depth to her career, but not to the form. i enjoy it when i play it, but it don't hold a candle to the genius of all the albums from "blue" through "turbulent indigo". barbara np: bruce cockburn, breakfast in N.O. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #69 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. 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