From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #64 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Monday, February 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 064 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Kakki" ] Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. [Robert Glenn Plotner ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff [dsk ] Re: Joni giving up music for painting [dsk ] BSN ["Raffaele Malanga" ] BSN review on VH1.com [Deb Messling ] BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 [Deb Messling ] BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times [Deb Messling ] Re: Two statements which explain alot (from BSN review on VH1.com) [MDES] Joni on the National ["Chad Burkhart" ] Re: Joni on National, etc. ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 ["Chris Marshall" ] vh1.com reviews both sides now ["Bryan Thomas" ] Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now ["Loren Carter" ] Re: BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times [dsk ] BSN Review - LI Newsday ["Jill (cactustree@excite.com)" ] Re: Both Sides Later [Martin Giles ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:01:36 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Debra wrote: > I think to be effective a person's art has to be honest and true to that person's particular experience, > which to me includes taking into consideration the times she or he is living in. > That's why different movements evolve, not because someone consciously sets > about doing something new, but because the former ways of representing life > truthfully don't fit anymore. And the change in style doesn't have to be > dramatic or completely without earlier influences (which is impossible anyway) > for the work to speak honestly to a new time. Maybe I'm regarding her paintings simplistically, but to me they do reflect her particular experience as far as the subject matter she chooses - boyfriend, ex-husband, cats, Canadian landscapes, etc. She is memorializing what is near and dear to her and leaving a visual story along the way. That can be considered banal or ordinary, I suppose, but it is honest as far the subjects she chooses to portray. I also see hidden symbolism in many of the paintings - the work is ordinary at first glance but later reveals deeper meanings or concepts, just like many of her songs do. Maybe that can be considered contrived because others before her have already done it, but I think she just likes to employ the conceptual too much not to use it in her work. One of my favorite paintings is the one of Charlie Mingus in the wheelchair wearing a big hat. Sure, probably anyone could have painted Charlie in his wheelchair toward the end of his life, but to our knowledge nobody else did so. Only Joni has memorialized Charlie in this way and the simple painting speaks volumes to me. Perhaps the act of borrowing the generally impressionist style itself in the 90s paintings is a deliberate choice for which only she at this point, knows the meaning. However, if she is deliberately choosing that, maybe that could also be considered a contrivance. >But, if Joni considers these paintings as merely learning exercises or decorations for her home, why >are they in such a permanent public display on her CDs? I never for a moment took her remarks of "painting as mere decorations," or "painting to match her couch" seriously. I think she is possibly poking fun at some of her critics in the art world who have had those sentiments about her work at first glance. Defensiveness disguised as "laughing it all away." My bottom line is that she is much better than I thought she was prior to seeing the paintings and that really delights me. I'm inspired by her wanting to pick up and pursue her first love. I'm also impressed by her guts to give it a go in the face of probably many who exhort her to "stick to the music, Joni." I think it's obvious, for better or worse, that the music biz has burned her out to the point where she wants to retreat from it indefinitely, lest it suck her spirit away completely. So what does she turn to to satisfy her abundantly creative nature? Her first love - painting. I'm just glad she wants to continue expressing herself creatively, regardless of other opinions as to the proper medium she should employ to accomplish that expression. I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't blame it on Kakki! ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 00:47:49 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Glenn Plotner Subject: Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: >>By the same token, picking up on what Randy said, just in the last two weeks I've had conversations with 3 straight guys at work about Joni. They were all fans, albeit not as nutty as me, but then again there aren't many of *us* out there!<< I missed the initial thread, but I think it is a wonderfully funny joke on straight males that this is the one place that *they* must come out. So I too must confess that I am indeed a straight white male fan of Joni Mitchell. In fact, I agree with Bob, there's a whole underground of us (I've traded tapes with 6 or 7 of them in the past year), a subculture secretly listening, keeping it on the sly, the remote ready to advance the CD lest one of our buddies walk in on us. "Say there, Bob. What's that you're listening too? You ain't turning fruity on us, are you?" "Uh no, no. The wife must of left that in there." I think it's time that we were secure enough in our straightness that we just let it play, come out to the world, put on DED at full blast in the car with the windows down and drive into the city. You do not know how liberating that can be especially if you own one of them four-wheelers with big honking tires. Robert ===== Screenwriter Contact Information http://members.xoom.com/_XMCM/rabidfox/page12.html Ignatz Mouse's Tape Trade Archive and Seriously Disturbed Humor http://members.xoom.com/rabidfox Thought Experiments, The Metaphysical Think Tank http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thoughtexperiments __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 03:51:06 EST From: Dmascall@aol.com Subject: BSN Mojo Review It's probably been posted already - but I don't know because I'm sorting out the results of a "friendly" AOL helpdesk person losing a monthsworth of mail when "helping" my partner. Mojo March 2000 issue - review of BST by Paul Du Noyer Sooner or later most singers must wonder if they cut it compared to those golden-throated canaries of yesteryear. For the sinbger-songwriter there is an extra challenge: how would their material measure up to the Rodgers and the Harts? Joni tackles standards once the preserve of Billie Holliday, Frank Sinatra and Ella Fitzgerald, suavely pitching two of her own creations - the 1967 title track and Blue's A Case of You - into the reckoning. Let it be said the results knock George Michael's recent effort into a pre-war trilby hat. Vocals wreathed in grey-blue cigarette smoke, she follows the arc of a love affair in 12 exquisitely sequenced episodes, from the first flirtatious tingle (1933's You're My Thrill) to intoxication (A Case of You) and, by way of Stormy Weather, to the ambivalent resolution: "I don't really know love at all". And in her maturity those old songs of hers - delivered in lower, slower tones now - are closer than ever to the terrain that great performers occupy. (And this review is on the same page as the new Steely Dan and Fiona Apple reviews) David Mascall ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:57:11 +0100 From: Marian Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting It seems like some have interpreted Joni's remarks about giving up music for painting to mean that she's aspiring to be as great a painter as she is a musician, or that she thinks she's as good at painting as she is at music. I think she just sincerely loves to paint - she finds it easier and more relaxing than creating new music - and she's in a place in her life where she can afford to do what she most enjoys. In that LACE interview, she said that she paints things she'd like to have on the walls in her own house. She called her paintings "domestic decorations", which is a pretty humble thing for her to say about her artwork. In any case, it seems like kind of a waste of time to be comparing her works to the great artists, especially since most of us have never seen her artwork up close and in person and, moreover, what we *have* seen of it (as album covers over the years) is only a small fraction of her total portfolio. I saw some of her paintings at the London Exhibition in 1990 and most of them were very abstract and unusual - totally unlike anything on the album covers. As a life-long fan, I do share the general wish for yet more of Joni's musical treasures, but as someone getting closer to retirement age myself, I totally support her decision to take early retirement from music and enjoy her golden years painting. Marian (still waiting for BSN) Vienna NP: Cactus Tree - Marcel D'Este (great guitar playing and harmonies!) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 04:08:34 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Kakki wrote: > One of my favorite paintings is the one of Charlie Mingus in the > wheelchair wearing a big hat. Sure, probably anyone could have painted > Charlie in his wheelchair toward the end of his life, but to our knowledge > nobody else did so. Only Joni has memorialized Charlie in this way and the > simple painting speaks volumes to me. I like this painting too, and even though I can think of other artists that used large flat areas of color in a similar way, that never got in the way of appeciating this painting. > Perhaps the act of borrowing the > generally impressionist style itself in the 90s paintings is a deliberate > choice for which only she at this point, knows the meaning. Maybe so, or for some unknown-to-her reason she's driven now to paint this way. But for now anyway, I see those heavy elaborate frames and impressionistic style of the late 1800s and it turns me off. Before TI, I liked her artwork, but didn't pay a great deal of attention to it. At least Joni's paintings on her latest CDs are getting some strong reactions, which is much better than being ignored even if the reactions are negative. So thinking about it that way I've got to hand it to Joni: she knows what she's doing. She's a wizard in many ways. > ...I'm inspired by her > wanting to pick up and pursue her first love. I'm also impressed by her > guts to give it a go in the face of probably many who exhort her to "stick > to the music, Joni." ... > I'm just glad she wants to continue expressing herself creatively, regardless > of > other opinions as to the proper medium she should employ to accomplish that > expression. There is something very inspiring about a person doing what she's driven to do, or called to do (in a spiritual sense). It's very easy to get lost in the "should do"ness of life and lose that inner spark. That's the aspect of Joni that most impresses me. I usually associate it with the "I'm doing this album this way even if it means we're going out on a very slender branch" attitude, but as you point out, it's true for her as a painter also. > I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until > I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to > travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't > blame it on Kakki! ;-) I promise, REALLY. Although my expectation is it will be one of those positive/negative/complicated experiences. :-) Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:12:21 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting Marian wrote: > It seems like some have interpreted Joni's remarks about giving up > music for painting to mean that she's aspiring to be as great a > painter as she is a musician, or that she thinks she's as good at > painting as she is at music. I think she just sincerely loves to > paint - she finds it easier and more relaxing than creating new > music - and she's in a place in her life where she can afford to > do what she most enjoys. Well, Joni's already complained about the art world not giving her enough attention, and since she's so driven and such a perfectionist, my guess is she definitely aspires to being as great a painter as she is a musician, especially since she acts like her music is no big deal. She does loves to paint, but doubt that she finds it easier since she's been painting for 40 years or so and still is assimilating her influences, as she puts it. And I know from experience painting is not necessarily relaxing, mind- and time-bending sometimes, but too intense usually to be relaxing. Maybe satisfying is a more accurate description. Time will tell on this one. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 02:11:01 PST From: "Raffaele Malanga" Subject: BSN I got my copy of BSN through Amazon this morning (at 7!) Although the box was free to bump in the too big packaging, I should consider myself lucky that the CD jumps just on one track, "You've jumped"... sorry, "You've changed" :-) It's like the track is going automatically in fast forward, so the song only lasts a couple of minutes. I'm still in doubt what to do, exchanging it, keeping it... I'll just check with Amazon about their policy. I won't go into a review of the CD. You all know it and, on the other hand, I'll let it grow for a while before speaking any word. What it is impressing for me is that I got BSN exactly on Valentine's Day. Isn't it ironic that my love affair is located at the moment at the downhill side of the virtual arc that Joni thought of? To be more precise, I'm currently at the "Don't Worry 'Bout Me" stage. At least I'll have a good soundtrack for my weeping :-( Raffaele in London ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:11:52 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review on VH1.com Joni Mitchell In the late '70s, much to the dismay of her legions of hippie folk fans who had stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell opened her musical heart and let us in on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the time at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell released non-folk rock albums like Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and back into the genre, occasionally merging her love of pop with her passion for jazz and ending up in uncomfortable musical places because of it. With Both Sides Now, though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz standards. Drawing from the inspiration of archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell croons with the style and aplomb of a cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted with a classy, delicate grit. Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra - swell with charged emotion, especially on the sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might check twice to be sure it's the same golden-haired lady of the canyon they remember. Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and it's terrific. BOB GULLA Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:24:47 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 Joni's giggly voice gone by Jonathan Takiff Daily News Staff Writer "Both Sides Now" Joni Mitchell (Reprise) Once she was the epitome of the flower child, with a soaring soprano to match. Today, there isn't a hint of girlish giggle or dewy-eyed optimism left in Joni Mitchell's voice. She's smoked her way into a dusky-throated, world-wise thrush, and seemingly wrung the romantic gush from her art and life (twice married, many more times aligned). Yes, it's an ideal situation for Mitchell to be contemplating love from "Both Sides Now." And with the set's underlying theme - that romance demands eternal vigiliance from both parties - it's perfectly timed for Valentine's Day gift buying, too. Named after one of her most famous songs, this mature, knowing overview of romance's (short) ups and long downward spirals is expressed in a song cycle of lushly arranged pop, blues and jazz-tinged classics first popularized by the likes of Billie Holiday, Nat King Cole, Dinah Washington and Frank Sinatra. Layered in for seasoning are radically re-arranged,but startlingly effective versions of Mitchell's own "A Case of You" and the song-cycle capping title tune. Their enduring nature and relevance remind us that Joni might have been foolish in love, but never anybody's fool. Luxurious treatments for upwards of 70 musicians (plus special guests like Herbie Hancock and Mark Isham) lends this set the rich panache of a classic Sinatra or Ella Fitzgerald studio session. The first track of attack, the Holiday-popularized "You're My Thrill," is a bit of overkill, almost drowning the quivery, sensual nature of the confession, and scaring you into thinking that Mitchell's gone over the top. Ah, but the dynamic is quickly re-balanced with the Etta James' hit "At Last," with contrasting pinging piano notes and strings against Joni's dramatic phrasing - subtly slurred and cracking in all the right places. Also delish - the downfall predicting "You've Changed" with the first of the album's several haunting Wayne Shorter sax solos, the ups and downs of "Sometimes I'm Happy" and "I Wish I Was In Love Again" and a multi-hued, insightful treatment of "Stormy Weather" that now stands among the best for this war horse. According to Ice magazine, Mitchell got the bug for this project when her musical director, co-producer and ex-hubby Larry Klein staged a benefit concert called "Stormy Weather" and invited Joni to perform standards with a big band, alongside Sheryl Crow, Paula Cole, Natalie Cole, Stevie Nicks and Bjork. A recording of that whole show may soon see the light of day, we hope, though Mitchell's tantalizing treatise is going to be tough to top. Grade: A Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:35:08 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times Joni Mitchell plays favorites on new album February 8, 2000 RECORD REVIEW BY LLOYD SACHS It was only a matter of time before Joni Mitchell, whose achievements as a pop-jazz innovator approach her achievements as a singer-songwriter, cut a standards album. On the concert trail, she has tested those waters with "Stormy Weather" and "Comes Love," once a vehicle for Billie Holiday. She also contributed readings of "Summertime" and "The Man I Love" to jazz pianist Herbie Hancock's genre-hopping disc, "Gershwin's World" (1998). Because her Gershwin interpretations strained for pained, Holiday-esque expression, you could have feared the worst in approaching "Both Sides Now" (Reprise). The title track and another early folk-rock Mitchell favorite, "A Case of You," is surrounded by mostly pre-rock classics. But the album, available today in a limited-edition box set containing three of her lithographs (it retails at $49.98; the regular CD will be released March 21), transcends its influences. It's as convincing as anything she has done. Luxuriating in West Coast arranger Vince Mendoza's stirring orchestrations, the 56-year-old Mitchell brings a husky, powerfully laid back authority to songs associated with the likes of Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald and Etta James-and even while misfiring with "Stormy Weather," the singer makes an interesting pass at Lena Horne. Joni wouldn't be Joni if she weren't pitching a high concept. In ordering the songs to trace the arc of a love affair, she told Billboard magazine, "Both Sides Now" is designed as "a commentary on romantic love in the 20th century." Those expecting any champagne bubbles are in for a letdown. Though she projects a sexy, carefree maturity on "Comes Love" and "I Wish I Were in Love Again," thriving as always in a cool, swinging vein, even the most upbeat songs are streaked with foreboding. On "You're My Thrill," the album's stunning opener, heartbreak is no more than an inflection away from hope. The two Mitchell oldies are out of their element here. Decking out "I could drink a case of you" in strings is like outfitting a flower child in Dior. Still, singing the songs with a reflective intensity, she muscles her way past their '60s-collegiate sensibility to spill pressing middle-age truths. Recorded in London in settings ranging from a big band to a 71-piece orchestra, "Both Sides Now" features pop-tinged soprano saxophone solos by Wayne Shorter (a longtime crony of Mitchell's), and contributions by Hancock and trumpeter Mark Isham. The first in a trilogy planned by Mitchell and her co-producer (and ex-husband) Larry Klein, the disc will be followed by a symphonic treatment of her music and reportedly a holiday album including several "something bad always happens to me on Christmas" songs. Rating: *** ½ Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:46:40 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Two statements which explain alot (from BSN review on VH1.com) In a message dated 2/14/2000 4:13:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, messling@enter.net writes: << giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. >> <<>> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 05:22:46 PST From: "Chad Burkhart" Subject: Joni on the National I too am wondering how many of you saw Joni on the National. I was one of the people that did catch the interview and I have to say that at first, my girlfriend and I were a little put off by her attitude. In hindsight, and after reading some of your posts, I have to give Joni the benefit of the doubt. The interviewer did seem to be egging her on, it seemed right from the start that he wanted to get a rise our of her. I did like some of her answers and she was good ol' Joni sitting and smoking about five cigarettes throughout the interview. I didn't really care if it wasn't the best interview in the world. I'm just glad to see that finally one of her albums is getting the press that it deserves. Oh yeah and my BSN-EL was scratched too so I took it back and got a refund....I will be waiting for the jewel box rather than take my chances with another copy (It's $100 with tax in these parts). Chad ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:26:53 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni on National, etc. Evian tells ranting Joni to "Snap outta it!" Evian, you're starting to sound like Myrtle, now. ;) P.S., In my usual inimitable fashion, I didn't "notice" Joni was going to be on the National, therefore, I missed it (but sounds like I didn't miss much.) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:33:27 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Kakki says: My father has been a painter all his life (so I give him some credit for knowing a bit about it) and my mother is very picky and sometimes snobby in her tastes. Both of them cried as they viewed her paintings, too. Guess you just have to be there ;-) For what it's worth, my husband, the artist, just noticed the Joni songbooks I bought recently (TTT and TI) and commented, "Gee, I really like her paintings". Also, the real thing is often quite different from the reproductions you see here and there. Sometimes the reproduction looks more "realistic" because it has been reduced - however, you miss the "feeling" that you get from seeing brushstrokes and so on. How many people have seen the REAL Mona Lisa and been surprised at how "small" the real painting is? and so on... it is a matter of taste. My husband, constantly indecisive about what medium to use (among many other things), always asks me whether I like his oils or acryclics better and it drives him nuts when I tell him I usually can't tell the difference and that I go by what the painting is about, rather than how it was painted. Although I'm no art critic, there are many Joni paintings I quite admire and others I don't care for at all. Just to get my bitchy 2-cents in, I'm not crazy about a lot of the frames she uses - to me, these often overwhelm the painting itself. IMO the frame should complement the picture and these great big gold things don't do much for me - they seem to cry out to be looked at, rather than the paintings. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:50:24 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff In a message dated 2/14/2000 1:36:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << why, unless she's carved the frames herself, are they included in the reproductions of her work? >> I showed the pictures to a painter-friend of mine and the first thing she said was, "well, the frames alone explain it all". Deb, you've summed up my feelings, though I do feel that if she wants to decorate her CDs with her paintings, that's fine with me. You realize we'll never be invited to her home, now, right? Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:00:25 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff In a message dated 2/14/2000 3:05:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << I'm starting to feel a little nervous about the "withholding judgment until I see them" comments. Please, just promise me if you lay out the money to travel to Saskatoon or elsewhere and then be disappointed, that you won't blame it on Kakki! ;-) >> LOL, Kakki. I've already made comments without seeing the paintings in real life. So, you're off the hook. Still, I have to agree with Debra's points. Though Joni does depict her life and what's important to her, it goes beyond that. The final, breaking point for me was seeing that close up of the heart on her sleeve on the CD. Yes, it was really there- she didn't make it up- but another artist might have seen it and dismissed it, realizing that sometimes, stating the obvious is not the way to go. Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:03:16 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: my graceless post In a message dated 2/13/00 11:32:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, les@jmdl.com writes: << From: "Mark S" Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:27:37 -0500 I am aware of the irony of my graceless post on Joni's "National" interview. >> every day is a new day, and i am amazed each day when i learn how to say more and more with less and less. and when i don't do that, and i say very little with way too much, which i do far too often, i look forward to tomorrow, which is a new day. pat ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:09:28 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni giving up music for painting In a message dated 2/14/2000 5:09:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, dsk11@bellatlantic.net writes: << And I know from experience painting is not necessarily relaxing, mind- and time-bending sometimes, but too intense usually to be relaxing. Maybe satisfying is a more accurate description. >> I'd like to know Joni's secret. I'm a nervous wreck when I paint; my mind is all over the place, fretting and thinking, and I pace. But it is satisfying- unless what comes off the brush is a piece of shit. Then I'm a miserable slob. Relaxing for me is listening to Joni! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 07:25:44 -0800 From: Don Sloan Subject: BSN - Thanks, Joni!! Thanks to all who offered up warnings about the scratched LE BSN. I cancelled my Reprise order and thought, "I'll wait for the regular version." Hah! Within 24 hours, I found myself calling around to every music retailer in the area and when I found one with the LE BSN in stock, I had to bite. Am I glad I did, especially as it is a flawless disk! Okay. So it's a hefty price for the package, but after listening to the music three or four times, I can't get enough. I love it, start to finish. Thanks to Joni for a wonderful Valentine gift. Don ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:23:58 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: A Strange boy. Or at least a rare bird. Bob says: >just in the last two weeks >I've had conversations with 3 straight guys at work about Joni. They were >all >fans, albeit not as nutty as me, but then again there aren't many of *us* >out >there! :~) >One of the guys even had a copy of C&S in his pocket! Really, Bob? Was that a copy of C&S in his pocket, or was he just happy to see you? (Sorry - I couldn't resist!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:25:56 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re:it sounds stupid... >SIQUOMB: She Is Queen Undisputed Of Mind Beauty > > >other Joni acronyms include: > >SISOTOWBELL: Somehow In Spite Of Trouble Ours Will Be EverLasting Love >POSALL: Perhaps Our Souls Are Little Ladies >MOSALM: Maybe Our Souls Are Little Men Never knew about the Sisotowbell thing - it sounded vaguely Scottish to me somehow - and would prefer that I hadn't. IMO, Joni should stay away from the acronyms, but then, I'm known for having acronymophobia... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:32:25 -0000 From: "Chris Marshall" Subject: RE: BSN review: Philly Daily News 2/8 Deb Messling forwarded the Philly Daily News article:- > According to Ice magazine, Mitchell got the bug for this project when her > musical director, co-producer and ex-hubby Larry Klein staged a benefit > concert called "Stormy Weather" and invited Joni to perform standards with > a big band, alongside Sheryl Crow, Paula Cole, Natalie Cole, Stevie Nicks > and Bjork. A recording of that whole show may soon > see the light of day, we hope, though Mitchell's tantalizing treatise is > going to be tough to top. Interesting: this sounds just like the Stormy Weather concert CD that AT&T put out to accompany a marketing push. - --Chris Chris Marshall Secure Systems Integration Ltd Web: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/ Tel: +44 (0) 7970 459 553 Fax: +44 (0) 1954 201 741 E-mail: chris@secure-si.co.uk PGP key: http://www.secure-si.co.uk/chris/pubkey.txt Fingerprint: 86F2 8809 FAC2 37ED 491A FD7D 7CAF 3206 E706 D3B3 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:12:23 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Happy Valentines Day!! A word of caution to anyone with a mushy heart on this Valentines Day. I just opened my candy box of Joni love songs and they go straight to wear it hurts and turn the faucets on full blast! Oh boy, I can't think of any thing I would rather hear on a melancholy Valentines day!! Blue is my favorite color!! :-) You'll start sliding, when your heart turns on the juice... PS no skips! ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:50:01 -0500 From: "Bryan Thomas" Subject: vh1.com reviews both sides now Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: anyone else NOT received their BSN from Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll come today. (Sigh.) Peace to Wally, y'all. B. - - - - - - VH1.com http://www.vh1.com/thewire/reviews/review.jhtml?ID=179 Joni Mitchell. Both Sides Now. Reprise. In the late '70s, much to the dismay of her legions of hippie folk fans who had stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell opened her musical heart and let us in on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the time at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell released non-folk rock albums like Don Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former folk icon a reputation as an artistic adventurer and an industry risk. Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and back into the genre, occasionally merging her love of pop with her passion for jazz and ending up in uncomfortable musical places because of it. With Both Sides Now, though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz standards. Drawing from the inspiration of archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell croons with the style and aplomb of a cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted with a classy, delicate grit. Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra - swell with charged emotion, especially on the sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might check twice to be sure it's the same golden- haired lady of the canyon they remember. Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and it's terrific. BOB GULLA - --- BRYAN THOMAS. new.black.music. http://www.bryanthomas.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:13:01 -0500 From: "Loren Carter" Subject: Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now Bryan, I haven't received my copy yet either. However, not 5 minutes after I drafted and sent a message to the Reprise folks asking what's up, and where is it, I got an e-mail from them saying that it's in the able hands of the US Postal Service. Asuming that my carrier, or a carrier somewhere in the process, does not go postal, it should be at the ranch, in the CD player, this week. I only hope that, after hearing all of the sad stories and disappointments of the first releases, purchases, and arrivals, that mine (and yours) was delayed so that they could get all of the bugs worked out. cross 'em if you got 'em, I am, Loren.... "Bryan Thomas" on 02/14/2000 11:50:01 AM Please respond to "Bryan Thomas" To: joni@smoe.org cc: (bcc: Loren Carter/Maryland/United_States/Sylvan Learning Systems/US) Subject: vh1.com reviews both sides now Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: anyone else NOT received their BSN from Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll come today. (Sigh.) Peace to Wally, y'all. B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:30:31 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Joni in new VF Joni gets a brief mention in the new Vanity Fair magazine (March issue). Page 264, a nice inserted photo of Joni looking out from behind a bamboo (?) leaf, and this text: "It's been 33 years since she wrote the song, and Joni Mitchell has actually seen the world from both sides now, so the new version-on her exquisite album of standards, "Both Sides Now"-has a been-around-the-block, Edith Piaf-like impact" Hopefully they'll run another nice feature story on her soon. fwiw, the cover and feature story for this ish is Madonna. Bob ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 09:50:57 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: vh1.com reviews both sides now Hi Bryan I didn't receive mine either, in fact I called their 800 number and cancelled. CDnow may still have them in stock... Bryan Thomas wrote: > Before I proceed with the big cut and paste: > anyone else NOT received their BSN from > Reprise yet? I haven't, and it's making me > crazy. Do they send a confirmation e-mail > when it leaves the warehouse? Maybe it'll > come today. (Sigh.) > > Peace to Wally, y'all. > > B. > - - - - - > > VH1.com > http://www.vh1.com/thewire/reviews/review.jhtml?ID=179 > Joni Mitchell. Both Sides Now. Reprise. > > In the late '70s, much to the dismay of > her legions of hippie folk fans who had > stuck by her for a decade, Joni Mitchell > opened her musical heart and let us in > on a little secret: she dug jazz. Like the > time at the Newport Folk Festival when > Bob Dylan unleashed his electric guitar > on an unsuspecting audience, Mitchell > released non-folk rock albums like Don > Juan's Reckless Daughter and Mingus, > featuring names like Metheny, Pastorius, > Shorter, and Hancock, giving the former > folk icon a reputation as an artistic > adventurer and an industry risk. > > Since then, Mitchell's ventured over and > back into the genre, occasionally merging > her love of pop with her passion for jazz > and ending up in uncomfortable musical > places because of it. With Both Sides Now, > though, Mitchell buys once again into jazz > with a gorgeous album of romantic jazz > standards. Drawing from the inspiration of > archetypal singers like Nina Simone, Billie > Holiday, and even Billy Eckstine, Mitchell > croons with the style and aplomb of a > cabaret vet, her voice capable of lovely > phrasing, redolent with feeling, and dusted > with a classy, delicate grit. > > Mitchell's arrangements - accompanied by > the London Symphony Orchestra - swell > with charged emotion, especially on the > sultry "You're My Thrill" and the sweeping > "You've Changed." Casual Joni fans might > check twice to be sure it's the same golden- > haired lady of the canyon they remember. > Diehard fans will know that, yeah, it is, and > it's terrific. > > BOB GULLA > > --- > BRYAN THOMAS. new.black.music. > http://www.bryanthomas.com - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 13:36:51 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Re: BSN review: Chicago Sun-Times > Joni Mitchell plays favorites on new album > February 8, 2000 > RECORD REVIEW BY LLOYD SACHS > > Joni wouldn't be Joni if she weren't pitching a high concept. I love this sentence. It's very true and for some mysterious reason it makes me LOL. Thanks, Deb, for posting this review. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:45:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Jill (cactustree@excite.com)" Subject: BSN Review - LI Newsday Since I think I'm the only Long Islander here [concert buddy, Kenny G. - Queens doesn't count!], I decided to break my very long lurking streak to share this review from Newsday 2/13.... Jill - - - still trying to get an undamaged copy after 2 tries from CDNOW, but really enjoying the non-skipping songs so far!! ON THE RECORD JAZZ By GENE SEYMOUR. STAFF WRITER JONI MITCHELL 'Both Sides Now' (Reprise) One thing to make clear at the outset: Unlike other pop-rock divas who dip their toes into the jazz and classic standards pool, Joni Mitchell is no dilettante. Even the most casual survey of Mitchell's vast recorded output by the not-so-casual jazz fan would reveal an insurgent, exploratory spirit very much at home with such skittish romantics as Miles Davis, Lester Young or Gerry Mulligan. It wouldn't be much of a stretch, for instance, to place her 1976 album "Hejira" among the fusion jazz classics of the decade. And certainly no pop star of Mitchell's magnitude has since taken the kind of dare that her 1979 homage "Mingus" represented at the time. Skeptics need to hear her stunning guest turn two years ago on Herbie Hancock's "Gershwin's World" (Verve), on which she sang "The Man I Love" and "Summertime" with such depth and subtle inventiveness that many couldn't believe it was really Joni Mitchell. (Some guessed Shirley Horn. Still others said hesitantly, "Carmen McRae?") Clearly, her work here marked a considerable distance from her mischievous mid-1970s dabbling with such Lambert, Hendricks and Ross artifacts as "Twisted" and "Centerpiece." When during a recent tour with Bob Dylan, Mitchell sneaked in such standards as "Comes Love" along with her own tunes, the prospect of a full album of Mitchell and classic pop became tantalizingly visible. That album, "Both Sides Now," makes a limited-edition appearance this month before going nationwide in March. It's a mixed blessing at best. The good news is that Mitchell's voice - ripe, rich and burnished to a mahogany glow - - wraps itself around each of these familiar compositions (including two of her own, title track included) with worldly confidence and solicitous intelligence. The bad news is that the strings-brass-and-rhythm arrangements are so oppressive throughout that they all but smother her to death. Ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell you I'm as much a sucker for a luscious, pretty string arrangement as any melancholy baby. And it wouldn't have been a bad thing for "Both Sides Now" to carry a few orchestrated pieces here and there. But there seems something calculated in the omnipresence of these thick, glossy arrangements - almost as if those assembling the album (including Mitchell herself?) sought to avoid the kind of spare, small-group context that would provide genuine risk and, consequently, true revelation. The choice to make "Both Sides Now" as plush and comfortable as a luxury automobile shows its defects from the start with "You're My Thrill." Those who already own 1959's "Lady in Satin," Billie Holiday's poignant last testament, will recognize the keynote nod to Lady Day - especially in Mitchell's own brittle and angular approach to the lyrics. But while it's obvious Mitchell sounds much better than a diminished and dying Holiday, it's just as obvious that the effort to honor the latter's memory blunts dramatic impact; worse, it almost sounds as if Mitchell is straining at the outset to stand as one with Billie Legend. You can feel the whole album exhale with the next track, "At Last." Here is where Mitchell's rueful maturity and command of phrasing tap unsuspecting fans on both sides of the jazz-pop divide and make their eyes grow big. Her writerly sensibility, more highly evolved than most singers at any level of the pop pyramid, confronts the familiar lyrics with levelheaded tenderness. For those unabashed Mitchell fans, who wouldn't know Harold Arlen from Harry James, hearing her late-period voice (coarsened by time, but still capable of limpid sound) convey the songs on this album will be an education. That is, whenever the orchestra keeps out of her way. Sometimes it does, gratifyingly so on the aforementioned "Comes Love" - which melds so well with Mitchell's whisky-sour approach to conventional romance that you'd think she'd written it in 1978, instead of Lew Brown, Sammy Shear and Charles Tobias in 1939. But for all the attempts to make these arrangements sound like those which so comfortably framed the most resonant work by Reprise's founder Frank Sinatra, they, too, often sound like one of Max Steiner's 1940s film scores on steroids. The orchestra doesn't just want to accentuate these songs. It wants to conquer and plunder them like a colonial armada. And Mitchell isn't the only one who almost gets swamped. Some of her old buddies, notably Hancock on piano, Mark Isham on trumpet and Wayne Shorter on reeds, contribute graceful solos that manage to elbow their way to your pummeled senses through thickets of strings and brass. Their presence only makes you wish that this grandiose project had been pared down to them, a bass, a trap set and Mitchell herself. OK, so maybe "A Case of You," the other Mitchell original on the disc, wouldn't have sounded markedly different from its original 1971 incarnation on "Blue." It still would have been more interesting than the gaudy wrapping applied here. For all my complaints, I truly hope "Both Sides Now" succeeds, for no other reason than it'll embolden her to try it again with more esoteric material from the pop songbook - and with a more minimalist setting. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freeworld.excite.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:48:39 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Both Sides, Later Frugal Mary said.. > > So I'll be making a stop to The Exclusive Company, Madison's best everyday- > discount CD store, on my way home from work on Tuesday, March 21. I'm > guessing, and hoping, that the waiting may even make that first listen a > little sweeter. > > Mary P., > the essence of frugality these days in > Madison, WI, USA. And I'll be getting the regular version of BSN as soon as it gets released over here in the UK. By the way - does anyone know when that is? atb, Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:37:20 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: Both Sides Later I upset Fred (and probably others) on Friday with my use of the word 'superfluous'. I used it in the body of my post, referring to how I tend to prefer Joni when the arrangement is 'stripped down' to the minimum. This doesn't mean that I necessarily dislike any of her more complex arrangements, just that I get more of that goose bump thing from the more direct stuff. When I enquired in my PS about the producers, arrangers etc, I was taking the mickey out of myself a little by using the word again. (Hence the inserted emoticon). I hope that the fact that I asked the question shows that I am interested in them. Fred informed.. > The producers? You might have heard of them ... Joni Mitchell and Larry > Klein. Far from superfluous (insert emoticon here) > > Also far from superfluous, the arranger is Vince Mendoza, who is a brilliant > composer in his own right, and equally brilliant arranger who has worked with > many great jazz artists, including Peter Erskine, John Scofield, Ralph > Towner, and The YellowJackets. Mendoza's own albums are fantastic, > particularly Start Here and his most recent, Epiphany, an album of his > compositions arranged for orchestra (London Symphony) and small jazz group > (including Peter Erskine), which was nominated for a Grammy this year. > > And the jazz artists on BSN are nothing short of some of the greatest the > music has ever known: Wayne Shorter (sax), Herbie Hancock (piano), Peter > Erskine (drums), and Mark Isham (trumpet). > > As you can probably tell, I really disagree with the notion that the > orchestral arrangements are mere window dressing ... they are integral, part > and parcel of the musical statement, they are what this record is > about.... > Sure, she could do it alone with a guitar, but that would be a different > statement ... equally valid but not ipso facto superior. Fred, you are right. As I said, I haven't heard the album yet. I'm sure that there isn't one note in there that isn't there for a very good reason, but again - I was simply expressing 'a preference for' simplicity in my appreciation of Joni's music. I will be buying the album, and you'll be the first to know if I decide to eat my hat. atb, Martin. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #64 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?