From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #60 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, February 13 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 060 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Both Sides Later. [JRMCo1@aol.com] silly BSN dream [Deb Messling ] Re: BSN lithos [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BSN Bummer # 394 [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BSN lithos (md) [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: BSN lithos [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: BSN lithos [Phyliss Ward ] Re: Joni on National ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Both Sides Later ["Mark or Travis" ] Tribute Album??? [Matt Jones ] Re: Tribute Album??? [Jerry Notaro ] Joni on National, etc. [evian ] A Case Of Joni [Jerry Notaro ] Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Kakki" ] Re: Joni on National [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: BSN lithos ["Eric Taylor" ] BSN Ltd Edition [Brian Gross ] Re: BSN Ltd Edition [MGVal@aol.com] Re: The carpenters [FredNow@aol.com] BSN Ltd Edition- bitchin [TerryM2442@aol.com] Add Me To The List!!! [RIKandBRAD@aol.com] Joni Interview on Newsweek (TV show) [Anne Madden ] BSN DOA [Randy Remote ] Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff ["Kakki" ] Re: Tribute Album??? ["Matthew Hall" ] Re: jazz takes - uk fanzine ["Matthew Hall" ] BSN NY Times Review [dsk ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 05:12:55 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: Re: Both Sides Later. First things first: thanks for the catchy subject line, Martin. That tickles. Very clever indeed. Really. And you had me going for a spell with sound logic on the 'limited edition' thing. Form should follow function if you ask me. On this we concur. But we part ways on your narrow interpretation of what is lovable in her music. I've been immersing myself in her lyrical, musical and emotional complexity. Plus, evolution is real...let's get used to it. "Repetition without examination is death" someone said across these wires. Word. - -Julius Martin writes: << I think the reason for this is that I've come to love Joni most when the orchestration in her music is simple. Preferably just her and her guitar, but a small band is fine. For instance her rendition of Just Like This Train on the PWWAM video is for me a thousand times better than the original studio/band version. Now she has surrounded herself with big band and orchestra and it's going in the wrong direction for me. >> ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 07:47:05 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: silly BSN dream I dreamed last night that I read a view of BSN on the Internet that said something like "traditional Mitchellisms abound" and "Mitchell's lyrics surpass themselves on this album" and I thought to myself, what an idiot! Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:49:56 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN lithos In a message dated 2/12/00 2:03:13 AM US Central Standard Time, ewwt@netzero.net writes: << I think you're just upset that Joni is quitting songwriting for awhile to master her extraordinary painting skills.>> Thanks for your diagnosis, Dr. Eric...checks in the mail. And your spot-on analysis has inspired me to quit my paying job to master my extraordinary lawnmowing skills! :~) << I find her self-portrait stunning - the detail in the smoke, hair & shadows are so fresh, yet somehow classic.>> While it's my favorite of the lot, the eyes/pupils aren't right to me, plus the top of the wine glass isn't level. I do like the reflection of her image on the bar, and the expression of her mouth is pefect. The "heart on the sleeve" thing is REAL corny...what else am I supposed to do, look for Waldo in here somewhere? :~) << I don't think it's possible to truly appreciate the magnitude of Joni's genius if any aspect of her evolving artistry is discounted before given a fair viewing or listening. >> I'd love to see the paintings in person, just for the novelty of it. Personally I liked her work more on the C&S cover and the LOTC cover. When she shoots for realism, she misses the mark slightly. Bob NP: Joni, "Winter Lady", 03/17/67 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:52:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Bummer # 394 In a message dated 2/11/00 10:51:24 PM US Central Standard Time, katencj@ptd.net writes: << but alas, my lithos (trading cards) are missing from the box. >> Look on the bright side, CJ...maybe you have a rare one-of-a-kind collector's item without the cards! Did they also leave out the lyric/credit sheets? Bob NP: "Born to Take the Highway" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:39:16 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN lithos (md) In a message dated 00-02-12 02:59:30 EST, ewwt@netzero.net writes: << << I had almost the opposite first take on the paintings; they look to me like some of old paint by numbers kits people used to do. She uses some nice colors, but if she wasn't "Joni Mitchell", these paintings would never be seen by the public aside from showing up in a yard sale. >> >> Funny thing happened to me at the Musee D"Orsay in paris. When I went to the Van Gogh section I was struck at how ordinary and paint-by-numbers-like the paintings were. I could not believe that someone had paid 64 million dollars for what appeared to me to be ordinary stuff. OTOH some were gawking at them in a state of wonder and giggling at their genius. I LOVE Impressionism and Barbizon School paintings and I have taken a hard look at Jonis stuff, although they must be seen in person to truly make a judgement, and I think some of her stuff compares very favorably with other modern impressionist works. Some of Lautrecs people pictures are like that. Ruebens, Renoirs later stuff. There are many others hanging in the best museums that I wouldnt pay $1000 for and there are million dollar paintings in modern art museums I would actually PAY money to keep out of my house for fear they would mutate my soul if observed every day. That, is art. Keep on painting Joni except I personally would appreciate it if she did more studies of her surroundings and a few landscapes. Just dont try to do the ocean. No one pulls that off very well. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:59:01 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN lithos In a message dated 2/12/2000 9:54:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, SCJoniGuy@aol.com writes: << The "heart on the sleeve" thing is REAL corny...what else am I supposed to do, look for Waldo in here somewhere? :~) >> Bob, Oh, you outdid yourself on that one. I'm howling... Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:08:45 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: BSN lithos SCJoniGuy@aol.com wrote: > The "heart on the sleeve" thing is REAL corny...what else am I supposed to do, > look for Waldo > in here somewhere? :~) I believe that in the radio interview at the gallery, Joni says that the heart on the sleeve was actually taken from the photograph she used for the painting. i.e. it occured there naturally. > > I'd love to see the paintings in person, just for the novelty of it. The original painting of the cover was, for me, mesmerizing. I couldn't stop looking at that one. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:01:08 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Joni on National > Oh, the one thing she said was that she has a lot of female fans and a > minority of white male fans, and those that are are either sensitive or > "have been screwed by someone". She also included gay men, saying that the few straight guys that like her music are what Evian describes above. > Anyway, the whole interview was so uncomfortable for me to watch. > The guy obviously didn't do much research, and thus all his questions > were the worst possible ones... the ones any Joni fan would KNOW not to > ask. In a nutshell, the thing made her look cranky and defensive, and > it really pissed me off. Frigging CBC never gets anything right. > Evian > I'm not so sure the CBC is entirely at fault. I have to say I'm getting a little tired of this same old rant out of Joni. Of course they could have asked her different questions. She did say that Myrtle (her mom) likes to crank BSN up on their stereo and that doing that (cranking it up) really makes it sound good. She also said Bill (her dad) likes the more upbeat songs. When he heard what the record was going to be about he told her he probably wouldn't like it because it sounded too sad. But apparently it's growing on him. They did mention the reunion with Kilauren & Joni said she thought it was a great thing because it empowered women in similar situations to come forward & talk about it. She said one of her mother's neighbors told Myrtle that she had had a baby out of wedlock and that there was a teacher in Saskatoon who had also had a baby she had given up which shocked Myrtle (why would a *teacher* want to make such information known? etc, etc) Thank you, Evian! I just happened to see your post last night a few minutes before the West Coast edition of the National came on. So I was able to catch the whole thing. The Joni-alert squad comes through again! Don't you hate it when people call you in the middle of something you really want to see?? Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 10:10:34 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Both Sides Later > As you can probably tell, I really disagree with the notion that the > orchestral arrangements are mere window dressing ... they are integral, part > and parcel of the musical statement, they are what this record is about -- > Joni's vocal interpretations in the context of smart, soulful, inspired, > well-crafted orchestral arrangements, jazz rhythm section, and jazz soloists. > Sure, she could do it alone with a guitar, but that would be a different > statement ... equally valid but not ipso facto superior. I'm really curious about the process Mendoza & Joni employed in coming up with these arrangements. The intro to 'You're My Thrill' sounds to me like they lifted it note for note from the string intro to Billie Holiday's 1949 recording of the same song. They did spread it out over more instruments (horns, etc), giving it a fuller sound but it's the same arrangement. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:16:39 -0500 From: Matt Jones Subject: Tribute Album??? Has the Joni Tribute Album been released yet? I head a cover of "help me" on the radio today and was wondering if that was from the album... MJ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:42:38 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: Tribute Album??? Matt Jones wrote: > > Has the Joni Tribute Album been released yet? I head a cover of "help me" on the radio today and was wondering if that was from the album... > MJ No, the tribute album, on which kd lang sings Help Me is not out yet. The version you heard is Wynonna Judd's, which just may have beaten kd to the punch. Jerry np: Judy Collins - Classic Broadway ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:04:17 -0600 From: evian Subject: Joni on National, etc. Mark in Seattle wrote: > I have to say I'm > getting a little tired of this same old rant out of Joni. > Oh, my thoughts EXACTLY!! I mean, yeah, she's pissed at the industry, etc., and rightfully so, but I mean... c'mon! Snap outta it! I would like to see a positive interview where she would just say she was happy for the opportunity to record BSN, and how she is in a great place in her life or whatever... After you hear the same rant for years and years, it begins to really grate on your nerves. Also, this is something else that has been annoying me lately, especially the other night when I was reading the Companion. I am SO tired of hearing "The painting is the main thing, music is just a side venture" or whatever. Every damn interview it's "I'm quitting and going to paint, the painting is the first priority" and I don't know.... it just really annoys me that she always says this. To me, it's almost like a slap in the face, saying "well, I don't really care for the music, it's not important". I'd like to hear for once "I really like this album, I hope the fans are happy, and I had a lot of fun making it" instead of having every interview prefaced with "Well, they could fire me tomorrow, I want to paint". Well, I'm sorry, and forgive my language, but art means sweet fuck all to me, and so I am never going to appreciate a painting like a song. Don't get me wrong, if she wants to paint, fine, but I'm just complaining about how she never seems to articulate the joy of music making. Evian, who is coming down with a hideous cold, or ebola, or something nasty, and is extra cranky today... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:15:39 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: A Case Of Joni This reveiw, 2 pages long, appears in The Advocate, the national gay and lesbian newsmagazine. It also has a gorgeous half page color repro of the Joni litho with the cigarette. It's certainly the most intellegent review I've read so far. Les, if you want me to send it to you, let me know. A Case of Joni With a lushly romantic new album, Joni speaks to the lover in us all by Suzanne Buirgy What exactly is it about Joni Mitchell? Given that manyn of her songs are expressions of romantic love clearly intended only for the opposite sex, how does she manage to shine her searchlight into not only her darkest corners but ours as well? From her self titled 1968 debut to her moving new release, Both Sides Now, she has always disregarded "appropriate" behavior as defined by society and the musical powers that be, following her heart and forging a unique path, even at her own peril. She is unable to live any other way, even if at times it brings her frustration and pain. In all of these ways she connects deeply with us, her gay and lesbian listeners. In her three decade career the Canadian born Mitchell has wound her way through an astonishing array of musical styles and poetic journeys, never relying on what has carried her before, choosing instead to reach for new and untried territory. With Both Sides Now, Mitchell makes what may be her most devestatingly romantic statement yet - a fact that her record label, Reprise, has acknowledged by predating the CD's March 21 release with a special $49.95 limited edition package in time for Valentine's Day. Here, for the first time, Mitchell has chosen to record mostly material other than her own -and, adding to her own power, she's backed by The London Symphony orchestra. Singing jazz standards, accompanied by as many as 71 players, Mitchell holds her own and then some, sounding like a beautifully aged wind instrument. The bell-like tones of her early records are long gone, replaced by a smoky, resonant voice that has become an interpretive tool. Mitchell no longer just sings her songs, she inhabits them. The record as a whole is a knockout, particularly Comes Love and You've Changed, which in now way resemble the songs you've heard while cruising your local piano bars. The orchestral layers are complex and lush, the vocal phrasing sophisticated. The two self-pnned pieces she does include are breathtaking. Even in this classic collection, they stand out like jewels. A Case of You, arguably on of Mitchell's best songs ever, is stunning not only in the emotional impact of the musical arrangement but in her understated vocal. Both Sides Now is an anthem, a song that manages to be so personal yet so universal that any group could take it and use it as a theme song. In a profound way Mitchell put into words long ago what so many of us inthe nonstraight community know to be true: Being able to look at life and love from both sidesbrings us wisdom and compassion, even as we realize we may never know what it all means. P.S. Also in the issue is a picture and short blurb on Catgirl's cousin, Wendy Worthington. Though straight, she says she thinks her character on Ally McBeal should be pursuing a significant other. And "Being a larger person in a society that looks at that as a moral weakness, I can imagine what being gay must be like." Catgirl, be sure to tell her appreciate her comments. Jerry np: Bleecker Street Thanks to whomever recommended it. It's great ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:06:55 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Catching up with Joni and Stuff After an all-night, 10 hour flight from Micronesia I've just now caught up on all the digests (whew!) I'm too spaced to reply to individual posts so just some various comments. First, I am very saddened to hear about Wally and the many posts in tribute were just beautiful to read. Also, my very belated condolences to Anne and Catherine in the loss of their parents. As for the BSN/LE, it was waiting for me here this morning and I've played it on both my awful computer CD player and on my good player twice and there are no skips, jumps or scratches. Must have had a good packer. This one was from Amazon.com - still have not received the one from Reprise. As for the package itself, it is different from the prototype shown us by Robbie. That prototype had a deep, ribbed well for holding the CD. Also, there were tissue papers separating the lithos. Maybe the final configuration was determined by cost factors. What a rotten shame that "quality control" seems to have been sleeping on the manufacturing/distribution end Speaking of the lithos, I think the detail in them is really great and the colors are fairly true except for the yellow roses painting, which is more vivid in person. Guess I'm the one (no doubt along with Eric ;-) in the tiny lifeboat of those who think she is an exceptinal painter. But paint-by-numbers, Bob?? Go get an actual paint-by-numbers work and hold it up to the real deal in Saskatoon this summer. I'm happy to read that so many are wowed by the music. I received an advance of the CD and played it for my parents recently. (This is definitely "their" music. My father's initial reaction was similar to Patrick's - the strings were a bit overbearing. My mother's reaction was "it's Billie Holliday!" and "now *that's* what Joni should sing all the time!". They both did, however, also get the tears in their eyes listening, like I did. I also took them to Joni's art exhibit here in December. My father has been a painter all his life (so I give him some credit for knowing a bit about it) and my mother is very picky and sometimes snobby in her tastes. Both of them cried as they viewed her paintings, too. Guess you just have to be there ;-) Sorry I missed the Paz, Steve and Clark gathering. Thank you Michael for the Peter Erskine photo and autograph from NAMM. He and the Yellowjackets have been playing around L.A. constantly lately and I saw them back in December. He is the most awesome drummer I've ever experienced - blows everyone else right out of the water! On my way out to Micronesia, I gave myself the challenge of finding an obscure Joni cover over there to contribute to Bob's ongoing project of compiling all of them. When I arrived and picked up my rental car, I found that there was only one religious radio station on the island where I was staying so headed for the nearest store to buy some tapes. I absolutely could not believe it when I found a (new release) cassette for sale at a local general store of Nancy Wilson (of Heart) playing live at McCabe's Guitar Shop and one of the tracks was A Case of You!!! I still get chills thinking of the amazing coincidence of it all. It's not like I was at some Tower Records store. It sounds like Nancy is not playing in proper Joni tuning on it, but it works. The rest of the tape is outstanding, too, and I know the Heart fans on the list would love it. Copies will be sent to Bob and a few others shortly ;-) Now to rest up for the CSNY concert tonight ;-) Missed you all and may be returning to the island in a few days, but will try to keep up. Kakki NP: BSN/LE P.S. I acquired the largest mosquitos bites yet - argh! ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:31:26 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni on National In a message dated 2/12/00 12:09:42 PM US Central Standard Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << the few straight guys that like her music are what Evian describes above. >> What a shame she said this...usually she speaks with such wisdom. Like Penny, I enjoyed the back credits, where she thanks her parents and Larry's parents for playing high quality hi-fi in their homes. That's where I also developed my love for moving melodies, interesting rhythms and provocative lyrics, not because I was "screwed by someone"...here she has a beautiful record out, and she should be basking in the afterglow of her majestic work, not snapping like a bitter woman scorned! I mean, my gosh, the limited run of 15,000 limited editions sold out in a couple days already...she could have a runaway hit on her hands, but when she's turning off the most faithful of us it makes you wonder... WHACK!! Thank you, Joni, may I have another!? Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:08:20 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff In a message dated 2/12/00 1:20:46 PM US Central Standard Time, KakkiB@worldnet.att.net writes: << But paint-by-numbers, Bob?? Go get an actual paint-by-numbers work and hold it up to the real deal in Saskatoon this summer.>> Yikes! I was hoping I could sneak that one in before you got back from the islands! LOL! And I admit that it was a cheap shot, her work is way above paint by numbers but I *do* stand by my statement that nobody would pay much attention to her visual art if she wasn't Joni the musical genius... Oh, and btw, welcome back! :~) << On my way out to Micronesia, I gave myself the challenge of finding an obscure Joni cover over there to contribute to Bob's ongoing project of compiling all of them. Nancy Wilson (of Heart) playing live at McCabe's Guitar Shop and one of the tracks was A Case of You!!! Copies will be sent to Bob and a few others shortly ;-) >> Thanks a ton, Kakki! I'm excited about this project...I got some really cool stuff this week, too cool to even talk about lest it start a frenzy, but I'll sure be looking forward to this copy!! And while I'm on the subject, anyone who has a Joni cover or a song that Joni can be HEARD contributing to, let me know. Anyone who sends me a seed gets a FREE copy of the completed CD project. I already have enough for one disc, I'd like to make a 2/3 CD set! (Volume 1 is already complete, it featured Fairport Convention and a neat assortment of covers. If you're interested in it and missed it the first go-round, let me know...). Of course, I'll offer to tree it up for anyone who doesn't have anything to contribute and is interested... If you're interested in participating (all are welcome), let me know what you've got first and I can tell you if I already have it or if you can send it on! <> You're gonna LOVE it I'm sure, everything I've read about their shows has been great...three and a half hour marathons opening up with "Carry On"...I get chills just hearing it in my head. Bob NP: Tom Waits, "Emotional Weather Report" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:31:42 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: BSN lithos Marcel wrote: << Keep on painting Joni except I personally would appreciate it if she did more studies of her surroundings and a few landscapes. Just dont try to do the ocean. No one pulls that off very well. >> Judging from TI & TTT, Joni does her fair share of landscapes & still lifes - very well I might add. Her sunset surf crashing on the rocks in TTT is magnificent! I have yet to see anyone paint the ocean more vividly or realistically. & MAN she can capture a moody sky! E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 13:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: BSN Ltd Edition Hi gang, Pre-release, we learned that the package was *NOT* going to be signed by Joni. But I seem to remember a mention of the set being numbered. I have looked all over the one I received from CDNow (with some minor scratches and a slightly skipping Comes Love and You've Changed) and can't seem to see any numbers. Anyone have any insight on this? BTW, my replacement from CDNow is in the hands of Fedex for the weekend. I hope the Reprise packing machine pressed *THIS* one down on the spindle farther than the first one! Later, Brian np: BSN2K (hey, if I'm gonna return it, it may as well be worn out!) ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:49:17 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Ltd Edition In a message dated 2/12/00 1:26:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, BrianGross@rocketmail.com writes: << Pre-release, we learned that the package was *NOT* going to be signed by Joni. But I seem to remember a mention of the set being numbered. >> Brian is correct. As I type, I am looking at the ad from Valley's "Streetdate" which says: "The BOTH SIDES NOW limited edition boasts special packaging, and each album is numbered. The lithographs are suitable for framing." Now they may be able to get you on the technicality that you have a compact disc, not an album. (:-D MG - trying to decided whether it's feed a cold or starve a fever or just ignore them both and plow on ahead..... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:23:45 EST From: FredNow@aol.com Subject: Re: The carpenters Relayer211@aol.com >I am a big fan of the caroenter's music.Even though Karen Carpenter's >voice and the songs don't have the depth of Joni's songs and voice,I think >Karen has one of the most gorgous voices I've ever heard,and many of the >songs are wonderful. Karen Carpenter had one of the most beautiful instruments ever handed out by nature, and she could use it, too. Good drummer as well. I saw the PBS documentary put together by her brother, and it's clear that she was a musical genius. And, yeah, a lot of those tunes are wonderful ... Bacharach, etc. Man, I'd love to have heard her wrap her pipes around some of Joni's songs ... wow. - -Fred ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:03:19 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: BSN Ltd Edition- bitchin Damn. After hearing the rave reviews as well as the laments over scratched CD's, mine finally arrived today from Tower. The entire thing is scratched, though some songs- about 1/2- are unaffected. The question now is, do I request a new one or just get credit and find one locally that I can eyeball before purchasing? My local store ran out of them, otherwise I know what the answer would be. Broken hearted in Michigan, Terry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:48:27 EST From: RIKandBRAD@aol.com Subject: Add Me To The List!!! Just got my 2 BSNs from CDNOW, both are ruined - all scratched up - can't hear Case of You at all. I propose a class-action lawsuit! I followed the tales of horror while in TX on biz since the 3rd. I was delirious to think I'd be spared, especially on two of them. Was so happy to get home today...to see Brad and hear JM....this sucks! What barely plays sounds good tho! P&L - Rik Hollywood, CA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:43:34 -0500 From: Anne Madden Subject: Joni Interview on Newsweek (TV show) Did anyone catch the interview last night (Fri. 11th) on Canadian TV? Joni looked good even though she wore no makeup. She smoked throughout the interview and was in an extremely fiesty mood. She bristled when the interviewer compared her to Leonard Cohen and Sylvia Tyson. Actually she didn't seem to mind the Cohen comparison but clearly didn't care to be compared to Sylvia. She got even more onery when she was compared to Gordon Lightfoot....she said her music was nothing like Gordon Lightfoot's. She also did not like the reference to her as a "folk singer" and said her music was as far away from folk singing as you could get....she only sang folk from 1964-1966. She mentioned that she had quite a few black people who liked her music and they had no difficulty at all in interpreting it. Joni also said that most of her fan base was made up of gay males, females....the smallest group was white straight males! She lamented and talked about the sorry state of the music industry in general. She of course talked about her new album. Her mother loved the album and her Dad although he wasn't sure initially because the songs were kind of sad, eventually did give it his seal of approval. She said the orchestra didn't just show up to play....they put their hearts and souls into it completely! She was very impresssed with them. At the beginning of the interview Joni said, "as usual, in my opinionated opinion......" and trust me she was opinionated and certainly didn't back down.....way to go Joni! I almost felt sorry for the interviewer but he did a good job and didn't get too flustered, all things considered! Anne ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:56:45 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: BSN DOA I got mine from CD Now, and it was badly scratched up. I looked at it and figured there was no way it would play, but I decided to try to get the scratches out, and was fairly successful, I was able to play it with only 3 places where it skipped. What I did was to put the CD play side up on a piece of newspaper on the table, and with a clean pair of fairly worn-in jeans, I dry-scrubbed the surface very forcefully for about five minutes, stopping to check on my progress, and concentrating on the worst scratches. I got most of them out, but the process left lots of smaller scuffs. I took a clean tee shirt and went over the surface again. The fine scratches are still there, and a couple of the deepest ones are, too, but it plays almost all the way through. I have emailed CDnow about replacement. My impressions of BSN will follow, and are not for the faint hearted. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:49:30 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Catching up with Joni and Stuff Bob wrote: > Yikes! I was hoping I could sneak that one in before you got back from the islands! LOL! > And I admit that it was a cheap shot, her work is way above paint by numbers > but I *do* stand by my statement that nobody would pay much attention to her > visual art if she wasn't Joni the musical genius...Oh, and btw, welcome back! :~) Kommol Tata for the Yokwe (see I'm already learning the language;-) I'm starting to see some irony that the Joni art-dissers who think she should stick to her music may unintentionally be provoking her to hole up with the paints until further notice just to prove you all wrong ;-) At any rate, the ongoing Joni's paintings are wonderful/Joni's paintings suck debate has had so many lifetimes here now that it's become a list institution. But I think many people generally sometimes get caught up in the "art game" style of criticism. There are no real rules in art. Once rules are imposed, then the art is no longer quite as honest or original, IMO. I liked what Julian in D.C. wrote a few weeks back in this regard. There is no rule that art to be worthy must be completely "avant garde" even though that's what most art colleges/instructor will try to tell you. All that is required in my opinion is that it honestly reflect what is uniquely inside the heart/mind/spirit of the creator, rather than be a contrivance. In that respect, Joni gets an "A" grade, whether or not anyone else cares for the subject matter or her "archaic" pictorial style. Plus, she has the "chops", as she puts it. If we are honest with ourselves, we also have to acknowledge that her music, while some of the most original ever created, still has many derivative roots itself in a lot of music that came before her. Bottom line, it's unfair to compare her music to her paintings because it is apples and oranges. I hear the criticism of her art and really do understand where much of it comes from, but I never hear what it is that people think is specifically flawed or missing from it, or what their opinions of what it would take to be considered "great" other than that it generally fails because it is not sufficiently avant garde or does not break new ground like her music does. I will give Debra much credit in her discussions of the paintings because she articulates her position in depth. I used to hold very much the same opinion of the paintings for years until I actually saw them. Now I'm like the newly, evangelical converted and one knows how that can be ;-) In the end, Joni has never represented herself as a ground-breaking artist, so why is she held to that standard? She just says that she is a painter first - a true statement - and that the painting is how she would prefer to express herself and what she wishes to devote her time to now. Kakki NP: Marcel Deste - Both Sides Now (currently receiving rave reviews from my Joni-loving houseguests) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 20:22:05 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: Tribute Album??? Do you have any idea when the tribute album is out? I can't wait to hear the tracks by bjork and Janet Jackson. But I think Tori Amos should definitely be on there. If anyone wants to hear 'a case of you' by tori, from the very rare 'cornflake girl' limited edition single (which i picked up just yesterday for 20 quid) then I'm very willing to tape it for you. It also has rather unique versions of 'If 6 Was 9' by Jimi Hendrix, and 'Strange Fruit' by Billie Holiday. Brill. kd lang has an amazing voice too, i can't think of anyone better to sing 'help me' Matthew - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Notaro To: Matt Jones Cc: ; Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 7:42 PM Subject: Re: Tribute Album??? > Matt Jones wrote: > > > > Has the Joni Tribute Album been released yet? I head a cover of "help me" on the radio today and was wondering if that was from the album... > > MJ > > No, the tribute album, on which kd lang sings Help Me is not out yet. > The version you heard is Wynonna Judd's, which just may have beaten kd > to the punch. > > Jerry > > np: Judy Collins - Classic Broadway > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 20:11:54 -0000 From: "Matthew Hall" Subject: Re: jazz takes - uk fanzine Hello everybody, I think I've told you before about the fanzine that I'm putting together - 'Orbiting'. Well of course, it has a comprehensive reviews section - and we're going to include this review I wrote about David Lahm's 'Jazz Takes On Joni...' album. I was just wondering what everyone thought about it - I know that plenty of you own the cd, so it would be nice to have a few suggestions if you thinkI've missed anything out, or I've made a glaring error. Thanks, it's much appreciated: By the way, we don't use a scoring system or give marks out of ten - I'm not a big fan of that personally. Also, by the time the fanzine comes out, 'Both Sides Now' will have been released properly, so if anyone wants to do a good review of it then it would be great. You'll get a free copy of the first issue for your troubles. Thanks Matthew Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell David Lahm Arkadia Records 'Jazz Takes on Joni Mitchell' or 'Jazz Takes On Joni Mitchell'? It is the former that David Lahm has opted for, although some sort of collaboration between the two would probably have made a much more engaging listen. This is no run of the mill tribute CD however; more of an extension of Joni Mitchell's music than a retread, Lahm has taken a selection of her 'more unusual compositions' in a new direction. A direction that, as Lahm says, 'explores the overlap with her [Mitchell's] songs and certain well-defined approaches to jazz'. Riveting stuff you may think, but the result is actually a mixed bag of charms. Lahm, although himself a formidable piano player, allows Mitchell's music to take centre stage; none of the tracks have been rearranged beyond recognition, and yet the sheer level of talent employed on this record (most notably Randy Brecker on 'Edith and The Kingpin') mean that the resulting interpretations are diverse to say the least. The greatest success is ironically, the one that sticks closest to the original: 'Song for Sharon' taken from 1976's 'Hejira'. David Friedman on vibes somehow manages to nail Mitchell's sprawling melody, whilst Mark Feldman's violin, based on the original background vocals, takes centre stage to reveal the song's true dynamics. This is an album that has taken Lahm years to get released; most of the tracks were recorded before 1995, and it would have been a great shame if his incredible interpretations of Joni Mitchell's music had never seen the light of day. Much of it will be lost on people unfamiliar with Joni Mitchell's original recordings; from someone who heard this collection before actually hearing some of Mitchell's own versions, I found it a much more enjoyable listen, when I had some insight into the stories behind the songs. And despite Lahm's comments on each individual track, included here with the packaging, they cannot replace Mitchell's unique turn of phrase, which, ultimately, is the only thing missing from this most innovative piece of work. This is a great album, but it will take a dedicated fan to dive into Lahm's arrangements. And also I did get this CD free, which is an excuse for a thumbs-up if ever there was one. - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:09:49 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: BSN-my review I would never review a regular Joni album. She is such a trailblazer that it takes time, sometimes years to fully appreciate where she is coming from. With BSN, however, I feel it is more of a "what you see is what you get" proposition. I hope she has accomplished what she set out to do with this record, because she is the artist, and that is the bottom line, and it doesn't really matter what I or anyone else think about it. Still, does it work for me? First, the container itself is a beautiful cloth covered affair that is at once nostagic and psychedelic. Very classy. The lithos have been described as trading cards, but really, they are more than twice that size. The size of a CD booklet, to be exact. The artwork. I'm afraid I fall into the category of those who are not extremely impressed by it. There is no depth. Her paintings have a one dimensional flatness to them. Her biggest strength is her ability to capture faces, not an easy thing to do. However, the skin tone looks chalky and unreal. And certain things in the paintings like the bottles and TV in the bar, the No Smoking sign, Larrys picture in the little frame, the ashtray (so that's what it is) look totally amateurish. The roses are nice, but again, the picture just sits there flat and has no dimension. And when I want to see two fifty-somethings tongueing each other, I'll let you know! Ewww! My wife loved them all and wants to frame them. Art is one of the few things we disagree on. I don't quite get the concept of printing the lyrics on individual loose sheets rather than a cohesive booklet. For that matter, the words are completely intelligible, and printing them seems unnessasary. Joni's voice sounds much better than I expected. Years of smoking have damaged it of course, but not to the extent I had feared. She handles the songs well, occasionally her voice thins out a bit at the end of a phrase. Thankfully she doesn't use that fast vibrato too much. That would be pretty annoying. In "You're My Thrill" she seems to be purposefully doing her Billy Holiday impression, also somewhat on "You've Changed", not in a bad way. The rest is more in her own voice. The arrangements-well...I'm sure the little Wagnerian bit at the beginning of "You're My Thrill" was a tongue in cheek joke. Wagner is known for his grandeur, and these arrangements are sweeping, dramatic, and border on the syrupy. They recall a certain period when that style was in vogue, like Sinatra in the sixties. Not really my cup of tea, but I think it was consciously done that way. What it really reminds me of is-remember the Jackie Gleason Show, not the Honeymooners, but his weekly variety show? That's the sound. Over the top. Montavoniesque (I cringe even saying it). My favorite cuts are her two originals, also, there is one cut, "Sometimes I'm Happy" that swings. This is the only one where Joni actually seems to be enjoying herself, she sounds looser and freer, and it makes me wish the whole album was done more in this jazz vein, instead of with the seriousness that the symphonic stuff has. "Comes Love" has some of this swing to it, too. I guess my biggest problem with the whole set is the choice of material. These songs just don't move me, for the most part. With all the standards to choose from, I would have loved to have heard her get into some more melodically interesting stuff.."Stardust" perhaps. Most of the melodies are kind of monotonous. No Berlin, Gershwin, Cole Porter. And interestingly, she has recently stated that committee songwriting sucks, yet all the tunes have 2 or 3 authors (although most songs of the period did). The soloists for the most part leave me cold, too, with the exception of Mark Isham on muted trumpet. Wayne Shorter sounds stiff, especially on "You've Changed", and only gets a looser feel on "Don't Worry 'Bout Me". He gets kind of squeaky on the last chorus of "A Case of You", but manages not to intrude too much on BSN. Herbie Hancock, who I respect a great deal, also sounds stiff on "Sometimes I'm Happy", but contributes a more inspired solo on "I Wish I Were In Love Again". Also, if you listen closely, he is emote/grunting along with his solo, and what's up with that? Surely he can control this inappropriate (in this setting) noise. What if the whole orchestra did that? I can only guess that the stiff performances are a function of the huge costs involved. I don't know what union scale is in England, but in the States a 70 piece orchestra would probably run you $10,000/hour. So don't screw it up! Speaking of noise, there is a low rumble at the beginning of "At Last", and to a lesser extent at the beginnings of a couple of the others, as if they forgot to turn off the AIR conditioning before they hit "record". The quality of the recording is quite good, and the CD is an HDCD. I suspect it could be a bit better, and I would gladly turn in the fancy packing materials for a super high quality disc. As a concept that seeks to trace "the arc of modern romance", it is interesting to note that the fourth of the twelve cuts is already complaining "You've Changed". Well, disappointment is her favorite theme, right? In conclusion, I liked it, but it did not blow me away. There are some powerful moments, and even if "Both Sides Now" were the only track on there, it would still be worth it. Still, it does not leave me totally satisfied. I do think the symphonic treatment works better on Joni's own material, and eagerly await the next project. "Judgement of the Moon and Stars" sounds like a fine idea, and "Shades of Scarlett..", "Electricity"...the mind boggles at the possibilities. RR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 00:30:58 -0500 From: dsk Subject: BSN NY Times Review You can read the review and also see the dramatic photo by going to http://www.nytimes.com. In the printed paper that I picked up on my way home tonight there's also a b/w picture of Joni at last summer's Joni's Jazz. It's great that Joni's getting so much attention for her newest experiment, even though I'm not sure that "weather-beaten jazz chanteuse" is much of a compliment. Debra Shea ****************** February 13, 2000 Joni Mitchell: Something's Lost and Something's Gained By STEPHEN HOLDEN FEW contemporary voices have aged more shockingly than Joni Mitchell's. The craggy alto on "Both Sides Now," her intermittently magnificent new album of standards (including two of her best-loved original songs), is so changed from the sweetly yodeling folk soprano of her earliest albums that it hardly seems possible the two sounds could have come from the same body. In refusing to fight or try to camouflage the ravages of time, Ms. Mitchell belongs to an interpretive school that includes Billie Holiday and Frank Sinatra, whose vocal deterioration brought them greater emotional depth and realism. Studying a chronology of their records is like following a road map of their lives that takes you deep into the mountains over increasingly rugged terrain. The bumpier the road gets, the longer the view. In the opposite school are supremely polished technicians like Mel Tormé and Sarah Vaughan, whose voices remained distinctively beautiful (even as they darkened with age) until the ends of their lives. Listening to Ms. Mitchell, who is 56 and has smoked heavily for decades, you can hear the toll of all those cigarettes in her shortened breath, husky timbre and inability to make fluent vocal leaps. At the same time, that very huskiness lends her torch singing the battered authenticity we expect of middle-aged jazz singers with their years of after-hours living and accompanying vices. Ms. Mitchell has been struggling for that authenticity since the mid-1970's, but it wasn't until her guest appearances on Herbie Hancock's 1998 album, "Gershwin's World," singing "The Man I Love" and "Summertime," that she finally sounded like a weather-beaten jazz chanteuse. To approach the rarefied place inhabited by Abbey Lincoln and Nina Simone, Ms. Mitchell virtually had to lose her voice. With "Both Sides Now" (Warner Brothers 2-47620), Ms. Mitchell follows her 70's folk-pop peers, Linda Ronstadt and Carly Simon, into the realm of formally orchestrated pop arranged in the style of late-1950's Holiday and Sinatra albums. And in making the gesture, Ms. Mitchell, the most influential female folk-rocker of all time, has recertified the continuity of pre-rock and rock traditions. That continuity has more to do with attitude than with musical style. For as much as rock-era singers rebelled against pre-rock forms, many (especially those who came out of folk music) retained an enduring faith in the earlier generation's romantic mythology. With true love the unquestioned ideal, pop sentiment swung between the poles of happily-ever-after and heartbreak, ecstasy and tragedy. Ms. Mitchell's original folk-rock songs upheld that mythology while analyzing it with an unprecedented personal candor and deep skepticism. It remained for another generation of punk rockers and hip-hoppers to topple that mythology and subvert romantic dreaminess with rawer, more realistic views of sex as brutally funny, harshly combative game-playing. "Both Sides Now," which Warner Brothers has just released in a special Valentine's Day package ($49.98; it will come out as a regular CD on March 21), was recorded in England with a 70-piece orchestra arranged and conducted by Vince Mendoza. The orchestrations on 7 of its 12 cuts have the richness of full-scale Hollywood film scores, embellished with jazz solos that feature Wayne Shorter (on saxophones) and Mark Isham (trumpet) along with a discreet dusting of jazz rhythm. The album's most obvious precedent is Holiday's classic "Lady in Satin," recorded in 1958, not long before the singer's death, with Ray Ellis conducting an orchestra augmented by top-flight jazz soloists. "Lady in Satin" is as starkly tragic a pop album as has ever been made. On it, Holiday's cracked, parched old-woman's timbre (she was only 42 but sounds 70-something) adds an extra layer of pathos to self-lacerating ballads like "I'm a Fool to Want You," "You Don't Know What Love Is" and "You've Changed." Yet for all the physical damage on display, Holiday's stealthy jazz phrasing remained intact along with her ominous aura of masochistic enjoyment. "Both Sides Now," unlike "Lady in Satin," has its lighter moments. But on the whole it aspires to the same level of emotional gravity, especially in Ms. Mitchell's devastating versions of "You've Changed" and "You're My Thrill" (which Holiday recorded in 1949 with a similar arrangement). Ms. Mitchell's interpretations of both songs are as deep and somber as Lady Day's. Her Holiday-like phrasing, smoke-charred timbre and anguished intensity take you to the core of songs describing states of emotional torture: facing the imminent departure of a lover who has lost interest ("You've Changed"), and helpless erotic obsession ("You're My Thrill"). Equally powerful is a version of "At Last," sung as a pained cry of relief, in which eerie piano triplets almost beyond earshot echo Etta James's version of the song while the blossoming orchestrations recall Nat (King) Cole's. These darker moments are much more convincing than the album's sunnier ones, in which Ms. Mitchell's attempts to swing breezily fall short. Her performance on a brass-heavy Sinatra-influenced version of "I Wish I Were in Love Again," in particular, lacks the visceral punch that might make this playful celebration of a rough-and-tumble relationship seem like fun. The album's boldest and most problematic moments are its symphonically weighted versions of two Mitchell originals, "A Case of You" (originally a fragile folk-pop lament sung against a quivering dulcimer) and her most famous song, "Both Sides Now." Here, both are intoned as dramatic monologues amid churning, hovering strings. But since neither song goes anywhere harmonically, the music just sits heavily as the singer muses out loud. But if "A Case You" sinks under that orchestral weight, "Both Sides Now" somehow stays afloat. With her brooding oracular delivery, Ms. Mitchell forcibly twists this singsongy tune with its frilly images ("rows and flows of angel hair") into a humbling life lesson on the elusiveness of personal wisdom ("It's life's illusions I recall/ I really don't know life at all"). Like a determined swimmer fighting a flood tide, Ms. Mitchell prevails and carries her most famous song safely to higher ground. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #60 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?