From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #46 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, February 3 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 046 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Joni's recording method ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue [Deb Messling ] Wally- [jw1327@rcn.com] Big Yellow Taxi [Paul Scott ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #67 [w evans ] shortlife [Roman ] Re: Covers That Resonate With The Music/DJRD [pyramus ] Re: HOSL [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? [Susan McNamara ] Re: Big Yellow Taxi [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Hejira vs DJRD ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Juno Award Nominees ["Catherine McKay" ] Big Yellow Taxi [Steve Dulson ] big yellow taxi [Paul Scott ] Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue ["Catherine McKay" ] tribute album [Betsy Boyle ] Laurel (age 5) sings Joni [M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\))] Re: Laurel (age 5) sings Joni [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: Big Yellow Taxi ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Big Yellow Taxi [catman ] Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue [David Wright ] Re: Laurel (age 5) sings Joni ["Catherine McKay" ] "Both Sides, Now" on radio!!!! ["Jerome Gonzales" ] Re: WHEN IS THE BOX SET COMING OUT? [Randy Remote ] Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #67 (up on the walls) [Mike Friedman ] RE: Hejira vs DJRD [Chris Marshall ] Re: Hejira vs DJRD [catman ] (no subject) [dave fairall / beth miller ] RE: re: "Political correctness," etc. [LL ] Re: BSN Shipping Now [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: BSN Shipping Now [MGVal@aol.com] A BSN Review from Amazon [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] re: "Political correctness," etc. [LL ] BSN being shipped NOW!!! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Neil Diamond [Relayer211@aol.com] HOSL [Walter R Rodgers III ] Re: Hejira vs DJRD [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:30:52 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Joni's recording method There's been recent discussions about Joni's tuning and writing methods, but I'm curious about her recording methods, ie. does she play guitar and sing at the same time, or lay down the guitar first, then sing, or what? Does anyone know? I've always pictured her recording with the guitar at the same time, especially since a lot of her songs don't follow conventional rhyming patterns, you know, fitting 73 syllables into a 4/4 beat! Likewise with the piano. I can't imagine her playing the piano for "Blue" or "The Last Time I Saw Richard" then singing over the top of it - the performances are too "raw" (hopefully you know what I mean by that)! Anyone have any answers/thoughts/ideas? Or has this been done to death in the past, and I've just missed it! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 06:42:20 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue Where did you get Alternate Blue? Has that been treed? Does Alternate Blue have the original version of All I Want, or is it the version we're all familiar with? At 02:09 AM 2/3/00 EST, you wrote: >I was listening to Alternate Blue tonight > Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 07:18:06 -0400 From: jw1327@rcn.com Subject: Wally- No recent word on the list...does anyone have any new information on Wally? James ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:30:04 -0000 From: Paul Scott Subject: Big Yellow Taxi Hello, I'm making a series about protest songs for BBC World Service. I'm including Big Yellow Taxi as an environmental song. Does anyone know of articles or information that explains Joni's inspiration for this song (each programme tries to include a clip from the singer/songwriter about why they wrote the song) and also, does anyone know who the last paragraph is referring to and its meaning in relation to the rest of the song? I've recorded a discussion group who talk about the song and they have their own opinions, but it would be great if I could find out a more definite answer. Thanks for any help that you may be able to give. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 07:35:18 -0500 (EST) From: w evans Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #67 > But since it was brought up, what did the gay men here put on their walls > when they were teenagers? I don't ask that in any sort of judgemental way, > I'm just curious...I suppose they couldn't put beefcake male posters up > unless they had outed to their parents, which is a minority I'm guessing. (My > sister didn't out to my parents until she was in her thirties). > Or maybe they did - I don't know, that's why I'm asking...so you see Don > Rocker-Bryant, you have opened up an interesting topic. > > Bob > Nope, wasn't out.... so I put up Beatles album covers on my walls. :o) Never tipped off the folks, but it was quite nice. It's too bad that the new Paul single for "No Other Baby" wasn't out at the time, cuz it's got a full-color (colorized) poster of Paul at about 15 playing his guitar. (I may have it framed anyways :o) BTW, I just realized that this entire digest #67, except for one post about HOSL, was entirely NJC. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:17:40 +0100 From: Roman Subject: shortlife > but after getting to my 40's, I've found my philosophical base > shift from "Life is weird and I can't figure it out" to "life is short > and love is precious." yep, that's a great line. I second that emotion alrighty. tube ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 11:46:32 +0000 From: pyramus Subject: Re: Covers That Resonate With The Music/DJRD Bob wrote: The colors on the cover, the blue and the rust, are they considered opposite colors? I mean from a color spectrum standpoint, would the simple contrast of those two colors represent the duality of the record? ======= Absolutely Bob. The juxtaposition of colours and shades (and ideas) permeates through much of Joni's work it seems to me. Just off the top of my head.. Colour - ------ "Red is angry, green is jealous." "Miami sky red as meat...and green sea air" "Pawn shops glitter like gold tooth caps...in the grey decay.." Shade - ----- "...all the house lights left up bright...I'm gonna blow this damn candle out..." "When forests rise to block the light...I'll challenge them with flashes from a brighter time.." All of Shadows and Light of course. These are a painters lyrics, and for me personally are the most fascinating part of Joni's work. The 'duality' of her work is undoubted. I saw a video clip of an interview with Joni where she was anxious to point out that she didn't write purely from a woman's point of view but tried to see both sides (now?) of an argument. I always think of Joni's lyrics as little word paintings where you can look in and see yourself but also see through to bits of Joni as well. Like looking .."in the mirrors of a modern bank..." and back out through "...the windows of a hotel room." Kevin. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:55:02 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: (no subject) > Give it another listen...... I listen to it on a regular basis and still skip the tracks i don't like' > > > DF - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:28:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: HOSL Catgirl said: <> Synchronicity...this morning while continuing in the JM Companion (almost done, dammit) I read the wonderful essay about 'Joni's Aviary', great takes on "Seagull", "Sweet Bird", "Amelia", and "Beat of Black Wings"...the writer not only analyzes the lyrics but also how the music and the chord shapes empasize what the song is saying. Even for someone who can't relate much to the technical music analysis, it was fascinating reading...again, highly recommended! ***** After that it'll be "Long Time Gone" about David Crosby. Bob NP: "Black Crow" (S&L version...smokin!!!!!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:29:48 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Guess which cd I got???? What do you think? > >What the heck IS that line she says? It's printed on the liner as "your >notches, liberation doll". Is that what she's saying and if so, what the >heck does it mean? > I can't remember where I heard her say it: some article or interview, but the line is "Your notches, liberation doll" and Joni says the notches refer to the wine glasses in the previous line: A room full of glasses Your notches liberation doll So the man is basically saying "you call me a drunk, but those dead men are yours!!" Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:05:36 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi Hi Paul: If I were you, I would do a search on the JMDL articles page. http://www.jmdl.com/articles/ I know there was an interview with Joni where she said she was inspired to write Big Yellow Taxi when she checked into a fancy hotel in Hawaii and when she looked out her window all she could see of the beauty of the island was a big fat parking lot. So the line "they paved paradise and put up a parking lot..." was the line that started the song going. Good luck with your series! Take care, Sue >Hello, > >I'm making a series about protest songs for BBC World Service. I'm including >Big Yellow Taxi as an environmental song. Does anyone know of articles or >information that explains Joni's inspiration for this song (each programme >tries to include a clip from the singer/songwriter about why they wrote the >song) and also, does anyone know who the last paragraph is referring to and >its meaning in relation to the rest of the song? I've recorded a discussion >group who talk about the song and they have their own opinions, but it would >be great if I could find out a more definite answer. > >Thanks for any help that you may be able to give. > >Paul ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 10:09:19 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi - ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Scott > I'm making a series about protest songs for BBC World Service. I'm including > Big Yellow Taxi as an environmental song. The BBC World Service - now there's an example of the best of Britishness. But that's another topic. I recall from a concert that Big Yellow Taxi was written on a trip to Hawaii where she was appalled by the mass tourism and over developement of the place. Still I wouldn't mind going there, just to see how bad it is for myself. The little kids who play loud music in my house love the Big Yellow Taxi remixes. It's a welcome change lately to hear Joni blasting though the house instead of Robbie Williams. Whoever produced the remixes did a great job, I love the way he stretched Joni' s vocals to fit the beat. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 15:49:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD >From someone who knows nothing of the technicalities fo music-I cannnot >hear any similarity at all between Hejira and DJRD. They sound completely >different. Lyrically they are too. hejira is by far the better album, at >least to my ears. >i seem to recall it written on this list that Joni just threw DJRD together >cos she had an obligation to fill. it certainly is a strange album. My >favourite tracks being Talk To Me, The Tenth World and Dreamland. Paprika >Plains is incredibly boring to my ears. For some reason, I never got DJRD when it came out. I only got it a few months ago and loved it right from the start. I agree that there are parts of it that don't seem to fit. The one that stands out as not really *belonging* (to me) is "Jericho". Funny thing because I believe Joni wrote "Jericho" quite a bit before DJRD came out. I've only seen her twice in concert and I think it was the first time I saw her (which would have been in 1972 or '73 when she played Massey Hall in Toronto in between the releases of "Blue" and "FTR".) I may be mistaken, but I thought she did sing it there. Or else maybe it was the next time I saw her (again in Toronto at the CNE stadium or something like that - it was outdoors) - this would have been post WTRF and pre-DED and yes, she had the *bad* perm at the time. Memory fails... To get to my point (yeesh, finally!) DJRD is certainly right now my most favouritest Joni album. I may get over it, but, for the most part, with a few exceptions (I don't care much for "Off Night Backstreet" either - I wonder if it's the presence of the evil Don Henley on it?) I really love it. Yes, I do like Paprika Plains, the whole darn thing, and I also like the Tenth World. Part of it is the way the music segues from one song to the next. I find that "Otis and Marlena", "The Tenth World" and "Dreamland" which, coincidentally, follow one another, work as a bit of a suite, or whatever the correct musical term might be. They *fit* together. It starts out with Otis and Marlena arriving in the Florida hotel, the unreality of this golden world compared to reality, continuing with "It's all a dream she has awake", then it ends with Joni's dreamy harmonies blending into "The Tenth World" which to me is a kind of hypnotic, trancelike dance (perhaps induced by drugs, or alcohol, or perhaps just by the music itself, the percussion and the voices weaving in and out), then segues into "Dreamland" which moves from Florida to a more remote tropical location and then back again to the plane heading back to Canada - it's like she's trying to shake herself out of the trance, but she's still mostly in Dreamland. Not to say that I don't like "Hejira" - I do, but I have to be in the right mood for it. And not to say that "DJRD" will continue to be my favourite. Probably not. I would be hardpressed to rate Joni's albums in any order of favourite-ness - the two that don't do much for me right now are "Ladies of the Canyon" and "Clouds" (or "Joni Mitchell"). That could change. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:30:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Juno Award Nominees Steve notes: >The nominees for Juno Awards (Canada's Grammies) were announced today. >Most interesting to us: > >Best Pop Adult: Joni Mitchell - "Taming The Tiger" Interesting how it takes an American to tell a Canadian that! In typical "short-version-of-the-news-on-the-radio", the only ones that were mentioned in this morning's news story were Alanis Morissette and the usual crowd who are always nominated for 4-5 awards apiece. They didn't even mention Joni's name (the bastards!) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 08:32:27 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Big Yellow Taxi Paul Scott wrote: >I'm making a series about protest songs for BBC World Service. I'm including >Big Yellow Taxi as an environmental song. Does anyone know of articles or >information that explains Joni's inspiration for this song The first verse, as SueMac mentioned, came from a trip to Hawaii. The second, I am convinced, was inspired by a Richard Serra installation at the Pasadena Art Museum (admission $1.50 at the time), consisting of several giant tree trunks. > does anyone know who the last paragraph is referring to and >its meaning in relation to the rest of the song? I'm sure "my old man" that the BYT took away is the same "my old man" referred to in the song of that title, ie. Graham Nash. It relates to the rest of the song because it's another case of not knowing what you have until it's gone. PS. I liked the Farrah poster, too. :) ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:40:00 -0000 From: Paul Scott Subject: big yellow taxi Hello - thanks for the responses so far, they're very useful, didn't know about the musem and stuff - I thought that the last verse was about her old man, but didn't know it was Graham Nash Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 16:59:42 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue Clark says: >I was listening to Alternate Blue tonight and would theorize that >the >reason Good Samaritan didn't make it in is because it sounds >very much >like This Flight Tonight... Help me, someone - what is Alternate Blue? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:17:08 -0500 From: Betsy Boyle Subject: tribute album Hi all, does anyone know if the Joni tribute album has come out yet? If so, what's the name? Thanks, Betsy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:23:51 +0000 From: M.D.Quinn@shu.ac.uk (Mike QUINN\(CMS\)) Subject: Laurel (age 5) sings Joni From Mike Quinn: Greetings everyone, I have just joined JMDL and wanted to share this with you all. I take my five year old daughter Laurel to school every morning and we often sing together as we cross the school fields. On Monday we did our rendition of BSN (at least verse one and the chorus). When we arrived at school Laurel continued singing BSN in a lovely voice and caught the attention of her teacher who exclaimed "That's beautiful! I know some of the words to that song too, you must sing it to the class" Later that day, after their morning milk break, Laurel sang BSN to the rest of the class. Could this be one of the youngest public performances of a Joni song? My next challenge is to find another Joni song for her to sing (I'm always singing Joni songs around the house, well I try anyway). Possible choices: Night in the City: Too difficult? Song for Sharon: Great song, too many words for a 5 year old? DJRD: Would that make me Don Juan ? Man from Mars: Our cat went missing... TTT:....it came back. Circle Game: Good for out of tune voices, so we can all join in. Let me know if you have any better choices. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 12:38:24 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Laurel (age 5) sings Joni Mike said: <> Hiya Mike! and Welcome... <> Like you say, probably easier to figure the ones she SHOULDN'T sing. "Smokin" is nice and short but probably not something you want to encourage her to sing! :~) Seriously, I'd shoot for Big Yellow Taxi... Bob NP: Tome Petty, "Don't Do Me Like That" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:47:39 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi Philip says, of BYT (oh cripes, an acronym!): >It's a welcome change lately to hear Joni blasting though the >house instead of Robbie Williams. This must be admit-my-ignorance/confessional day. I've seen the name Robbie Williams mentioned before. Who he? Qu'est-ce qu'un Robbie Williams? Is he someone my kids would likely know about? What is/are his big hit(s)? Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:54:47 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Big Yellow Taxi Catherine McKay wrote: > Philip says, of BYT (oh cripes, an acronym!): > >It's a welcome change lately to hear Joni blasting though the > >house instead of Robbie Williams. Well I might not want him blasting thru my house but he could blast in my bed anytime. He's a filthy looking devil. > > > This must be admit-my-ignorance/confessional day. I've seen the name Robbie > Williams mentioned before. Who he? Qu'est-ce qu'un Robbie Williams? Is he > someone my kids would likely know about? What is/are his big hit(s)? > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:55:27 -0500 (EST) From: David Wright Subject: Re: thoughts on Alternate Blue On Thu, 3 Feb 2000 CarltonCT@aol.com wrote: > It reminds me of reading that Joni got upset when she heard the cassette > version of C&S and discovered they had reordered the songs. Yes! I have one of those reordered cassettes. "Just Like This Train" is moved from after "Down to You" on side 2 to after "Free Man in Paris" on side 1. - --David ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 18:33:01 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Laurel (age 5) sings Joni Mike writes: >Greetings everyone, I have just joined JMDL and wanted to share this with >you >all. Welcome, Mike! >I take my five year old daughter Laurel to school every morning and we >often >sing together as we cross the school fields. On Monday we did our rendition >of >BSN (at least verse one and the chorus). When we arrived at school Laurel >continued singing BSN in a lovely voice and caught the attention of her >teacher >who exclaimed "That's beautiful! I know some of the words to that song >too, >you must sing it to the class" >Later that day, after their morning milk break, Laurel sang BSN to the rest >of >the class. >Could this be one of the youngest public performances of a Joni song? I'm amazed a 5-year-old would be able to sing a Joni song - you must be raising the kid right! >My next challenge is to find another Joni song for her to sing (I'm always >singing Joni songs around the house, well I try anyway). >Possible choices: >Night in the City: Too difficult? I think if she can sing BSN, she can handle "Night in the City" >Song for Sharon: Great song, too many words for a 5 year old? Definitely, and kind of depressing "A woman I knew just drowned herself..." >Circle Game: Good for out of tune voices, so we can all join in. The Circle Game would be good. When I was a kid and going to Sunday Mass, we had a folk mass - the guy who did the singing and guitar playing would often sing "The Circle Game" at mass. I'm not quite sure how he got away with it - my Dad was fond of pointing out that Christians would be more likely to view life as a spiral rather than a circle, however... Here's a few I think would be good for kids: Morning Morgantown, from LOTC Big Yellow Taxi (the ubiquitous) Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 11:49:57 -0800 From: "Jerome Gonzales" Subject: "Both Sides, Now" on radio!!!! I am overcome with pure joy and wondrous beauty. Nic Harcourt on 'Morning Becomes Eclectic' just played the new 'Both Sides, Now' and offered three of the limited edition of the new album as a gift with subscription to KCRW. For those not in the know, KCRW is LA's greatest radio station which happens to be public. Joni is a devotee of it as am I. Nic still doesn't have the full album promo so since I have one on the way, I will be dropping it off tomorrow or Monday. Spreading the Joni-it's a passion and a mission!!!!! Jerome ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:03:55 -0600 From: "Pitassi, Mary" Subject: RE: re: "Political correctness," etc. I wrote, and LL responded: ">As with anything else, it may; it may not. >But I can tell you that my own deep respect for the nuances of language is >precisely what caused me to jump into this debate in the first place, and to >became so irritated with the overuse (misuse) of the term term "PC" to cover >a multitude of ill-defined sins. I misunderstood, then, and apologize. I was under the impression that your objective was to dissuade bigotry, perceived or otherwise." That, too! But you were speaking about language, and so it was that particular motivation of mine that I emphasized in my reply. It is a very strong one. I also wrote, and LL responded: ">Hmm. . . if your math is right, there could be lots of reasons for that: >more people of certain viewpoints on the list; all the died-in-the-wool >PCers were busy during this thread; the fact that the view you express is >one that's played up OVER and OVER again in the press, so people are >familiar with it? That's rather doubtful, since this group is fairly independent and most of them are also relatively irreverent of the press in light of some actually "being" the press, however, whether the view I express is one played over and over again in the press, remains for me, specifically, to be seen and may well depend on what papers one reads. In addition, not having expounded on or defended my views, there are likely qualifying statements that may lead you to determine that I may possibly be a reasonable person, even perhaps one of sound mind, rather than simply another "lemming" leaping along with a "pop-op." :)" Well, the possibilities I suggested were written to be taken *somewhat* tongue-in-cheek: maybe I didn't make that quite clear enough. And far be it from me to suggest that *this* group is comprised of a bunch of lemmings! ;-) But I do think that the view that something called "PC" exists and is out to destroy language and clear thought (if not the decency of Western civilization) is one that's been replicated in quite a few magazines and newspapers, whichever ones you may happen to read. And yes, I think people tend to respond to views with which they are familiar. Finally, LL writes, "If we are able to continue, I think you will see that we are not as opposed on this issue as you seem to think." I don't think we're diametrically opposed on this issue at all. I think we agree on some things, like the great importance of clear language, and are likely to continue to disagree on others. Mary. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:10:32 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Joni's recording method We're talking about the inner sanctum now...where few people have been! I'm sure you are correct that the piano stuff on "Blue",LOTC,FTR was done live. There are videos of her performing those songs on Dick Cavett, Johnny Cash Show,etc, pretty much to the letter of the studio versions. I expect that as her process got more complex, she may have overdubbed the vocals afterwards, for instance on C&S, HOSL etc. Others, like "Off Night Backstreet" sound like the guitar & vocal were done simultaneously. I'm just taking an uneducated guess here. I don't know how much actual details of her recording process have been revealed. RR "Helen M. Adcock" wrote: > > There's been recent discussions about Joni's tuning and writing methods, but > I'm curious about her recording methods, ie. does she play guitar and sing > at the same time, or lay down the guitar first, then sing, or what? Does > anyone know? I've always pictured her recording with the guitar at the same > time, especially since a lot of her songs don't follow conventional rhyming > patterns, you know, fitting 73 syllables into a 4/4 beat! Likewise with the > piano. I can't imagine her playing the piano for "Blue" or "The Last Time I > Saw Richard" then singing over the top of it - the performances are too > "raw" (hopefully you know what I mean by that)! > > Anyone have any answers/thoughts/ideas? Or has this been done to death in > the past, and I've just missed it! > > Helen > _______________________________ > "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with > available extremes" - Carole King > > hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 12:15:50 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: WHEN IS THE BOX SET COMING OUT? I have heard of no plans or rumours of one. I would agree that a big fat one is long overdue. RR Relayer211@aol.com wrote: > > There are so many box sets out there,some of them of artist far less > deserving of the boxed set treatment then Joni.Are there any plans for a Joni > Mitchell box set in the recent future,and if not,why on earth not??? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:11:41 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #67 (up on the walls) I put up Styx and Kansas. I was a child of the 70s. Oh and Billy Joel too. ============================ I'm your Boogie Man That's what I am I'm here to do Whatever I can. - --KC & the Sunshine Band, 1976 > From: w evans > Reply-To: w evans > Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 07:35:18 -0500 (EST) > To: joni@smoe.org > Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V2000 #67 > >> But since it was brought up, what did the gay men here put on their walls >> when they were teenagers? I don't ask that in any sort of judgemental way, >> I'm just curious...I suppose they couldn't put beefcake male posters up >> unless they had outed to their parents, which is a minority I'm guessing. (My >> sister didn't out to my parents until she was in her thirties). >> Or maybe they did - I don't know, that's why I'm asking...so you see Don >> Rocker-Bryant, you have opened up an interesting topic. >> >> Bob >> > > Nope, wasn't out.... so I put up Beatles album covers on my walls. :o) > Never tipped off the folks, but it was quite nice. It's too bad that the > new Paul single for "No Other Baby" wasn't out at the time, cuz it's got a > full-color (colorized) poster of Paul at about 15 playing his guitar. (I > may have it framed anyways :o) > > BTW, I just realized that this entire digest #67, except for one post > about HOSL, was entirely NJC. > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:23:26 -0600 From: "Mark T. Domyancich" Subject: Jaco Pastorius Jazz Bass I know this technically isn't Joni-content, but I thought the bass players on the list would be interested in this. I just got the newest Musician's Friend magazine in the mail and on p105 there is a new Fender bass taken after Jaco. It says: The bass of choice for the man who inspired a whole generation of players. It's a basic, very vintage Jazz Bass, set up just the same as Jaco's: alder body without pickguard, two vintage Bi-Pole pickguards, (should be pickups!) vintage 4-saddle bridge, a(nd) vintage reversed tuners. 3 tone sunburst finish. Only $1259.99! Mark Domyancich Harpua@revealed.net http://home.revealed.net/Harpua ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 23:34:14 -0000 From: Chris Marshall Subject: RE: Hejira vs DJRD On Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:21 PM, catman [SMTP:catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk] wrote: > >From someone who knows nothing of the technicalities fo >music-I cannnot hear any similarity at all between Hejira >and DJRD. They sound completely > different. Lyrically they are too. hejira is by far the >better album, at least to my ears. > i seem to recall it written on this list that Joni just >threw DJRD together cos she had an obligation to fill. it >certainly is a strange album. My > favourite tracks being Talk To Me, The Tenth World and >Dreamland. Paprika Plains is incredibly boring to my ears. It's funny and interesting to note how differently we all hear and perceive things. I'm the exact opposite to Colin, in that I hear lots of similarities between Hejira and DJRD. However, a large chunk of that is because I play bass, so I'm much more in tune with the lower register of the music, more so than a lot of people, if my recent experiences are anything to go by. Just goes to prove... something or other. [ Recent experiences, I hear you say? Just that I was putting a subwoofer in the car to add a bit of bass reinforcement, and a few friends commented that they don't really notice bass in music. I was ready to call them heathens on the spot, but y'know, live and let live. I guess they'd notice it if it were gone, but it's probably the case that they don't really listen closely to what's going on "down there". Oh, I dunno. ] - --Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 00:04:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD > > > [ Recent experiences, I hear you say? Just that I was putting > a subwoofer in the car to add a bit of bass reinforcement, > and a few friends commented that they don't really notice > bass in music. I was ready to call them heathens on the spot, > but y'know, live and let live. I guess they'd notice it if > it were gone, but it's probably the case that they don't > really listen closely to what's going on "down there". > Oh, I dunno. ] I like bass but not up so much it thumps thumps thumps.TI is very bassy. > > > --Chris - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:35:28 -0600 From: dave fairall / beth miller Subject: (no subject) Right on Kevin..... Your comments about Shadows and Light are enlightening, encourage me to focus more on Joni's lyrics. As a musician, often I'm preoccupied w/ the music. thanks DF ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 20:09:16 -0500 From: LL Subject: RE: re: "Political correctness," etc. At 02:03 PM 2/3/00 -0600, Pitassi, Mary wrote: >I wrote, and LL responded: > >That, too! But you were speaking about language, and so it was that >particular motivation of mine that I emphasized in my reply. It is a very >strong one. 8<-------------------------------------------------------------->8 >Well, the possibilities I suggested were written to be taken *somewhat* >tongue-in-cheek: maybe I didn't make that quite clear enough. And far be >it from me to suggest that *this* group is comprised of a bunch of lemmings! ACK!! I *never* said that!! I don't even slyly imply it with a wink and a nudge! >;-) But I do think that the view that something called "PC" exists and is >out to destroy language and clear thought (if not the decency of Western >civilization) is one that's been replicated in quite a few magazines and >newspapers, whichever ones you may happen to read. And yes, I think people >tend to respond to views with which they are familiar. Hmm. Pardon my saying so, but "destroy" is such a strong word and seems a bit extreme. My objection is the manipulation of language (by anyone, regardless of their politics) in labelling that to *me* signifies a dismissal of some true issues in favor of "cleaning up" people's consciences. While my friend will say I am quite right about PC not making the problem go away, yet it does ensure that the problem is constrained within the bounds of civil society while it is being addressed, that is, under the assumption that all human beings are civil. It's been my observation that bigots are not reasonable people and I have found, personally, that it is futile to reason with the unreasonable. The attitude is one of self-entitlement, and by using popular terms, i.e. "Newspeak," (read 1984 by George Orwell?) we are really only kidding ourselves that we are taking real social action. These words are not actions. They can pacify those of us who wish it, but they do not change people's hearts. My friend tells me that she agrees PC can be a real pain when you're trying to express yourself and among friends it probably isn't necessary - but for a society to be, and remain, civil, there must be some means of controlling behavior. We aren't controlling anyone's behavior and there is no real way to do that. We think we are pricking the consciences of unethical people with words and changing their attitudes? Specific examples of cultural and societal abuses can be found in classical literature...someone here mentioned _To Kill A Mockingbird_, add _Tarzan_ and _Huckelberry Finn_ . Specifically, HF has been targeted here in the United States for removal from some schools. We really don't want to go back to the days when the white/male culture had complete domination and everything else was dismissed quite openly as inferior, no, but the truth is that white male domination is still the order of the day for the most part. A shameful case is the one of indigenous people. "Native Americans" say that no one here cares at all about them and they are quite right. Our society ignores them and hope they and their land claims will go away. But we *are* among friends here ... right? Has civility been mentioned as a JMDL criteria? Still, there's nothing wrong with "live and let live" as a general guide for living...all have that right. I simply don't agree that PC language is effecting the kind of social change that is needed. And no, I am not a Republican. L lyric@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 16:15:11 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: BSN Shipping Now Catherine exclaimed! <> That prompted me to check the status of my order from Reprise that was put in early the first day they were taking orders. Status: on back order. "#&#$@" was my initial thought, but then it dawned on me, this is great news for Joni! ;-) And then Catherine also shared: <> I admire your discipline and am thrilled it's on it's way for you!!! Thanks for helping prime the rest of us. ;-) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 20:40:19 EST From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN Shipping Now In a message dated 2/3/00 5:33:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << That prompted me to check the status of my order from Reprise that was put in early the first day they were taking orders. Status: on back order. "#&#$@" was my initial thought, but then it dawned on me, this is great news for Joni! ;-) >> The backorder doesn't mean that she's sold out, it simpy means that they are waiting for the official street date of 02/08/00. At Valley, our stock on hand is about 2,500 pieces. When Joni CDs come out, I always get the promotional stuff from our Marketing Department. What I find very disconcerting is that as of this Monday, we do not have any Joni promos for the BSN limited edition. I find it interesting that Joni has so much artistic control over the entire package from the concept to the music to the packaging and what appears to be nada over the marketing strategy. My company is the main supplier to places like CDNow, Amazon.com and various Indie record stores. They get their Joni from us as well as marketing incentives and promotional items. So far, we have not hawked it in our weekly "streetdate" beyond mention of its upcoming release. No posters, no advertising budget. Nothing. Boggles my mind. MG ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 17:31:22 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: A BSN Review from Amazon Joni Mitchell has long dabbled in the jazz world, forging alliances with the likes of Charles Mingus, Jaco Pastorius, and Wayne Shorter while incorporating elements of fusion into her more intrepid recordings. Both Sides Now, however, comes at jazz from a different angle than the experimental likes of Mingus and The Hissing of Summer Lawns. Here is Joni the chanteuse, tackling smoky standards such as "At Last," "Sometimes I'm Happy," and "Stormy Weather" in the embrace of lush pop arrangements that owe a debt to Nelson Riddle and Gordon Jenkins, though some stray over the line from stately into staid. The focus here is on Mitchell the vocalist, and she displays a real commitment to the music. She has the chops and the smarts to tackle these staples, but at times she seems intimidated by their illustrious pedigrees. Two of Mitchell's own songs are revived here--"A Case of You" and the title track. The results are mixed: the former takes on a new weight while the latter seems adolescent in such mature company. Ultimately, Both Sides Now is more a valentine to classic pop by a woman who can--and should--be off making more touchstones of her own. This numbered, limited-edition version of the album comes in a Mitchell-designed box that contains three of her lithographs. --Steven Stolder (He must have been working off old info with the three litho statement) Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 21:38:35 -0500 From: LL Subject: re: "Political correctness," etc. > >At 02:03 PM 2/3/00 -0600, Pitassi, Mary wrote: >>I wrote, and LL responded: >> >>That, too! But you were speaking about language, and so it was that >>particular motivation of mine that I emphasized in my reply. It is a very >>strong one. > >8<-------------------------------------------------------------->8 > >>Well, the possibilities I suggested were written to be taken *somewhat* >>tongue-in-cheek: maybe I didn't make that quite clear enough. And far be >>it from me to suggest that *this* group is comprised of a bunch of lemmings! > > >ACK!! I *never* said that!! I don't even slyly imply it with a wink and >a nudge! > > >>;-) But I do think that the view that something called "PC" exists and is >>out to destroy language and clear thought (if not the decency of Western >>civilization) is one that's been replicated in quite a few magazines and >>newspapers, whichever ones you may happen to read. And yes, I think people >>tend to respond to views with which they are familiar. > > >Hmm. Pardon my saying so, but "destroy" is such a strong word and seems a >bit extreme. > > >My objection is the manipulation of language (by anyone, regardless of >their politics) in labelling that to *me* signifies a dismissal of some >true issues in favor of "cleaning up" people's consciences. >While my friend will say I am quite right about PC not making the problem >go away, yet it >does ensure that the problem is constrained within the bounds of civil >society while it is being addressed, that is, under the assumption that >all human beings are civil. It's been my observation that bigots are not >reasonable people and I have found, personally, that it is futile to >reason with the unreasonable. The attitude is one of self-entitlement, and >by using popular terms, i.e. "Newspeak," (read 1984 by George Orwell?) we >are really only kidding ourselves that we are taking real social action. >These words are not actions. They can pacify those of us who wish it, but >they do not change people's hearts. > >My friend tells me that she agrees PC can be a real pain when you're >trying to express yourself and among friends it probably isn't necessary - >but for a society to be, and remain, civil, there must be some means of >controlling behavior. We aren't controlling anyone's behavior and there >is no real way to do that. We think we are pricking the consciences of >unethical people with words and changing their attitudes? > > >Specific examples of cultural and societal abuses can be found in >classical literature...someone here mentioned _To Kill A Mockingbird_, add >_Tarzan_ and _Huckelberry Finn_ . Specifically, HF has been targeted here >in the United States for removal from some schools. We really don't want to >go back to the days when the white/male culture had complete domination >and everything else was dismissed quite openly as inferior, no, but the >truth is that white male domination is still the order of the day for the >most part. A shameful case is the one of indigenous people. "Native >Americans" say that no one here cares at all about them and they are >quite right. Our society ignores them and hope they and their land claims >will go away. > >But we *are* among friends here ... right? Has civility been mentioned as >a JMDL criteria? Still, there's nothing wrong with "live and let live" as >a general guide for living...all have that right. I simply don't agree >that PC language is effecting the kind of social change that is needed. >And no, I am not a Republican. > > >L lyric@usadatanet.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:41:11 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: BSN being shipped NOW!!! Hey Gang, It is being shipped NOW!!! ******************************************** We want you to know that we have shipped the following titles. Bill To: Debra Worthington Ship To: Debra Worthington aka Catgirl ;o) QTY PRICE TITLE --- ------- ------- 1 $39.99 Both Sides Now ------- $39.99 Net Product $0.00 GiftWrap $0.00 Tax $2.95 Shipping ------- $42.94 Total Shipment $32.94 CreditCard $10.00 Dollar Off Coupon CATTNET ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:04:20 EST From: Relayer211@aol.com Subject: Neil Diamond I am big Neil Diamond fan.Does anyone know what Joni thinks about Neils's versions of "Both sides now","chelsea morning" and "Free man in Paris"? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:13:16 -0500 From: Walter R Rodgers III Subject: HOSL Catgirl; The line from Sweetbird that nether one of us quoted is one of my favorite lines of the album... "Sweet bird you are, briefer that a falling star..." I'm assuming she's talking about the sweetbird of youth. Normally, exaggeration turns me off to an author... makes them seem kind of hysterical and lacking a strong point to make, but boy does it work for me here. I mean the image of a brief flash of light against the backdrop of the infinite expanding universe really paints the picture of what youth looks like in the rearview mirror. Don't get me wrong, growing up and raising a family is wonderful, but the album really strikes a deep chord in me. Walter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 22:11:00 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: Hejira vs DJRD In a message dated 2/3/00 9:53:57 AM US Central Standard Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << For some reason, I never got DJRD when it came out. >> I actually heard this one BEFORE it came out...the FM rock station in Raleigh played it in it's entirety at midnight before it was in the stores. I'll never forget lying in bed with the headphones on, listening to the Overture to Cotton Ave, Jaco's bass bombs, and the whole first track...I was in awe from day one. I played that 90 minute tape over and over, eventually I did buy the album and record over my cassette. I didn't understand a damn bit of it, and 25 years later am only a smidge closer...but the sonics of this record just suck me in every time. And the louder the better, especially the sweeping majesty of Paprika Plains!!!! Catherine later says: <> Me too, I have to be breathing and on the planet earth! :~) Bob NP: Living Colour: "open letter (to a landlord)" 'Vivid' is such an awesome rock record...too bad these boys were so far ahead of their time... ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #46 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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