From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #28 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, January 23 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 028 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- BYT [catman ] Re: LACE Interview - Part 5 ["Kakki" ] LACE Transcription [evian ] Re: LACE Transcription ["Kakki" ] Most depressing song [Alan Poff ] LACE transcription [Scott Price ] Re: LACE transcription [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Re: LACE transcription ["Mark or Travis" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:59:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: BYT Whilst I was preparing Phoebe for her first show tomorrow, I half watched a talent show on the BBC. That is until a young woman came on to sing Big Yellow Taxi. There were five acts altogether and the only person to get more praise than her, won the show. Anyway, they souped up the song and unless I am wrong, got the words wrong! She kept singing'they paved paradise and put up THE parking lot'. I alwyas heard 'A parking lot'. She also sang 'they charged 25 bucks to see em' and 'they carried away my old man', which i have always ehard as 'and took away my old man'. The girl did sing well, had a great voice, but of course this being a Joni song, it didn't go down too well with me. Also, one of the panel, a girl from a band called b*witched, said it was great to have a country singer on and she would do well!!!!!! - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:00:23 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: LACE Interview - Part 5 Interview with Joni Mitchell at LACE - 12/21/99 [Rene Ingle from KCSN] Q. And I have two more paintings that I want to spend some time with. They're two that I had my strongest reaction to. Is this you crouched here -- A. Mm-hmm. Q. -- in this painting, and will you tell us a little about it? A. This is Edmonton, Alberta. Most of my relatives live there. In the distance you see a skyline. The Edmonton skyline came up late and fast because of oil money and is mostly glass buildings, so from a distance the pink glass or blue glass, it's quite an Oz-looking place. And in the bend in the river there is a foot bridge or a bicycle bridge, and there's a bicycle path that comes along this side, again, right at that point that stands out at the left-hand side. The following day I gave a concert. So this is the day before the concert and very close to the concert site but this is the North Saskatchewan River. The figure in the foreground is my boyfriend who's from my hometown. Donald and I grew up playing on the banks of the South Saskatchewan River, and one of the reasons that a lot of these images of he and I -- well, they're not all here -- they take place -- we have a Saskatoon, Saskatchewan thing about walking in parks. I don't know, it's just something locals do, you know. So we always end up in every city that we are renting bicycles whether it's in Rome and riding our bikes through parks and a lot of the images that I track home with me to paint come from those public spaces. Q. And the other one that I -- I have, I think, have my strongest reaction to is this, and it's also outdoors. A. That's a park in London. Q. Okay, a park in London. And here the people that inhabit the painting are absolutely elusive because there are no faces. There's really image of hand on knee. And I think this is quite a striking painting. I was really moved by it. Could you tell us maybe a little bit more about it, Joni? A. Well, first of all, let me tell that you after the earthquake I began painting this way. I guess with Nietzsche first. First, I would smother the canvas in, you know, avocado green oil paint because there was a period of painting where they painted photographically in terra verde and then they glazed over it, right? So I thought, well why don't I just smother the canvas in olive green because it's got a transparent gold thing to it and see what happens. Well, what happens is you get these very rich kind of old-world, tapestry colors. So it was kind of a successful color experiment for me. Right after the earthquake I had an insurance adjuster. She was a German woman and I was working on this painting. This one was complete and this one was one day old and I get the whole image up on the first day but then I bring the surface up and the detail up. She looked at this and she says, (in German accent), why would you want to paint a painting like that? I said, you know, "what's wrong with it?" And she said, "brown!" She looked at this one and she said, "brown! after the bombing of Dresden every hack in Germany was conscripted to do brown propaganda painting. Why would you want to do a painting like that?" And I thought about ____________ Rembrandt's black and that whole era and going black paintings, black paintings, black paintings until I got to the Impressionists and I was in heaven with all the color. So this was the beginning of a kind of _____ exploration. That's why this gray, this seagull, this is a Dutch-style frame from the Rembrandt era, you know. Which would still be in use in the time of Van Gogh, that type of frame, had he framed his paintings in Holland. But instead he was older and cramped and they put all of that floofy-floofy, you know, stuff on it. But I tend to like that style of frame for these kind of light experiments and with these tapestry colors, you know, ___________. But the thing -- this snapshot was taken from Donald's perspective I do believe, although I could have taken it randomly by holding it up. We don't remember really which one of us took it, but I suspect it was Donald. I find it very tender. But, some of the people here, a couple of men, found it disturbing, you know. There is an element of -- while it's very warm and friendly and the female form is basically just a lap and a knee, the male form is just a hand on that knee and the boot on that foot that's not even a full foot. A lot of it's on the margin because of the angle, and you're looking down at the ground which has a lot of autumn leaves. But, yeah, I find it very romantic, but I guess because of the color, this one fellow found it male-dominant. I said, "well, you know, what's wrong with a little male domination? A little in the right places -- it's a good thing" (laughs). Q. Joni, this is an absolute treat to be able to get a little glimpse into your life as a painter because it's something very few of us have a chance to have access to beyond the packaging on album covers. So thank you for spending this time with us. A. Sure. Q. Thanks for coming down and walking through the gallery today with us. Okay. [Interviewer 2 - believed to be Gilles Hebert who is associated with the Mendel Art Gallery in Saskatoon]: Q. Where in your physical space do you like to paint? Describe that area to us. A. Oh, wow. Okay. I recently removed my recording studio from my [house] and converted it over. Prior to that I ended up as I did as a child, anywhere. I just squatted on the floor. Sometimes I'd set up on the couch with a mirror like so I could see the TV backwards anywhere. And I paint for that in some kind of a surface __________ because I'd wake up in the morning and I painted in very, very low domestic night light and exaggerated all the colors to get that relief. It looked terrific in that light, but in daylight it was a bitch. So then I'd tone it all down, but then I'd look at it again that night under the domestic light and it would look flat. So then I'd correct it again so it went through all these processes and sometimes it damaged the surface, although I like a little bit of surface on a painting, sometimes it made a kind of a clumsy thing because mistakes were being made by wrong light, you know. So now I have a studio with access to a dimmer, a rheostat, so I can dial up any kind of light I like - synthetic > daylight and good daylight during daylight hours so now I have a proper studio. In the '80s when I worked large and abstractly, I had a studio down at -- what's his name? The museum designer. (Frank) Geary's place. Until he put some aluminum facade on the building and doubled the rent. So I got out of there (laughs). But, you know, there I needed -- the paintings were large and gestural and sloppy, you know, and there was a French curator that came to visit me, walked through my house, and my house was kind of Santa Fe style at that time, and she was saying to her son in French, "pink and blue." She was kind of tittering, you know, and everything was really neat and to be an Abstract Expressionist, you have to be drunk and messy. So when we got down to the studio, she couldn't believe it. It was like the world's biggest ashtray, right? I mean, it was like completely schizophrenic, butts from one end to the other and things slopped around. She had to kind of take a reassessment. But the pieces were big and very physical and messy then. But now I could do it in white gloves. Now I'm a Bourgeois painter, you know, like Matisse. You know, I live in a nice decor and I don't make messes. (laughs). Q. Do you listen to music when you paint and if so what do you like to listen to? A. I haven't in the past. No, I've had silence because in my youth and ... over the better part of my career I've had a lot of stalkers, you know, so I'm the night watchman. So I have a tendency -- not in a paranoid way, not to mask the night sounds -- people up on the roof and, you know, but recently I have taken to listening to things. Duke Ellington, Chopin Nocturnes. Let's see, what else? I've got KCRW in the dining room now set on -- (Rene Ingle): Q. You better put KCSN on your radio, you have to put KCSN on your radio (laughs). (Inaudible joking about putting a special antenna on her roof so she can pick up the interview.) Q. Okay. [Interviewer 2 - thought to be Gilles Hebert): Q. Just a couple of quick last thoughts. Most people are very subjective in the way they see themselves, and I think you paint yourself in a very objective way. Your paintings look like you. When you look at your paintings with you in them, do you see yourself in them? A. Yeah. I mean people ask whether (inaudible). I mean, there was even a period it was hard to paint your beloved. I think they criticized Rembrandt for that. He was always painting his beloved. (Rene Ingle): Q. I thought this would be hard to do. It's a painting of you rowing, and you're full face onto the canvas. A. See that's done from a mirror. This is done from a photograph. This is done from a photograph. That was done from a mirror and then the background was all invented. And this one is one of the first ones that I did in acrylics. It was right when I started painting this way, and I wanted to get to a point of invention too.________ but it was better likeness than that, a little more flattering. And my hired man came over and -- it was painted in the same region as "The Bathers"_______, and he was sucking on his pipe. And you shouldn't really have anybody in the room until you're done because they can influence you without saying anything. Georgia O'Keefe said the same thing. After it's done, it runs off your back, but during the process it's very delicate. And he pulled on his pipe and went, "Mm-hmm," or something like that and after he left, it looked like a Chevy Chase poster to me. Do you know what I mean? It was kind of like over _________. So I took it apart and then it just went into psycho dwarf land. The nose went way up, and the face just was contorted, and the next day he came back and he went, "OH, GEE!, like (laughs) and it took a while to wrestle the countenance back and something got lost. But what I captured in the recapturing of it was the intensity and the resolution to get it back. So it's very stern-looking because it was done from a mirror, and I lost control of it and I had to gain it back. So the jaw is very firmly set and the eyes are wall-eyed which is a thing that happens during the latter part of painting processes, and when that occurs an amazing perspective takes place where your brushes are suspended in air and you can see, you know, behind them. I mean it's kind of the same process when you look at those pointillistic things that have numbers and hidden images,it's that. When you hit that point in the painting where your eyes open up, you know exactly where to go. I mean it's almost worth it pushing yourself for 14 hours to hit a pocket of fatigue just to hit that state and you can sustain it then. And that's captured in the eyes in that, you know, the long labor it took to save the poor face from -- (laughs) -- this hideous thing that happened to it. (Rene Ingle): Q. Joni, this is, I think, incredibly insightful and somewhat courageous. I'm surprised at how much you were willing to share with us about what goes into painting and making the paintings and everything. A. Mmm. Q. So thank you. And I strongly urge you to come and check out "Tri-Annuale, Part 2, Amy Adler Curates Joni Mitchell" through the 23rd of December, that's the Thursday before Christmas, at Los Angeles Contemporary Exhibitions, 6522 Hollywood Boulevard. The phone number for information is (323) 957-1777, and you can also head up to the Worldwide Web if you have internet access and go to www.artleak -- a-r-t-l-e-a-k -- .com. Thank you, Joni Mitchell. *** (Transcribed by Lindsay Moon, moonlj@san.rr.com) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:10:39 -0600 From: evian Subject: LACE Transcription > Joni also makes reference to another person present who she calls "Jill" who > is from Saskatchewan and who works at a museum in Saskatoon. After some > sleuthing around, Lindsay and I are guessing that "Jill" is actually a > person named Gilles Hebert, who is listed on as the Director at the Mendel > Art Gallery in Saskatoon where Joni is scheduled to exhibit this summer. > (Per Mendel website). > Probably, since the article in the S'toon paper that I missed but my Mother told me about said that someone from the Mendel went down to L.A. to meet with Joni about the Mendel show, and tried to work out a date with her. So, methinks Kakki Drew is on to something! Evian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:24:19 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: LACE Transcription Evian wrote: >Probably, since the article in the S'toon paper that I missed but my Mother told me about said that >someone from the Mendel went down to L.A. to meet with Joni about the Mendel show, and tried to >work out a date with her. So, methinks Kakki Drew is on to something! Thanks, Evian! It's likely then that this *is* Gilles Hebert (there should be a little accent mark over the first "e" in Hebert but I don't know how to do it! ;-) In the interview Joni seems to be quite friendly with him. Kakki (whose mother also alerts her to all Joni and related newspaper articles ;-) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 20:56:36 -0500 From: Alan Poff Subject: Most depressing song Interesting thread. As several others have mentioned, I too rarely find Joni depressing. Even when her songs turn to melancholy, they do so in such an intelligent, honest, insightful manner that it leaves me feeling reinforced somehow, not depressed. With any Art, so much depends on the interpretation, the mindset and setting of the receiver at the time. Which is why our perception and appreciation of a work tends to change over time. I think Joni talked about this in one of the interviews. Although it no longer affects me that way (the situation has changed, thank goodness), I think my personal vote for most depressing song of all time (so far) goes to Sarah McLachlan's "Do what you have to do." While I was living in San Antonio, and my then seven year old Son was here in Florida, that song would send me straight past depressed into tearful grief. Her hauntingly beautiful voice singing: "And I have the sense to recognize that I don't know how to let you go Every moment marked With apparitions of your soul ... I know I can't be with you I do what I have to do" Whoa... the memory is still intense. Total change of subject. Earlier this week, somebody was asking, what was "Dawntreader?" and somebody else opinioned that it was the name of Crosby's boat, and then somebody else said "no, that's not it..." Anyway, and please forgive me if somebody else already said this, but my Son is currently working his way through the "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C.S. Lewis, and I just noticed that "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" is the title of the fifth book. Alan Poff ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:13:37 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: LACE transcription A huge THANK YOU to Kakki and Lindsay for their efforts to get this remarkable interview "down on paper." Joni shares with us so much of her creative processes...her inspirations and techniques...all without reservation. Great stuff! Scott ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 21:30:48 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: LACE transcription In a message dated 1/22/00 8:16:22 PM US Central Standard Time, sp@olympus.net writes: << A huge THANK YOU to Kakki and Lindsay for their efforts to get this remarkable interview "down on paper." Joni shares with us so much of her creative processes...her inspirations and techniques...all without reservation. Great stuff! >> Absolutely! Of course, I had heard it a couple times already, but it's also great to SEE the dialogue, as I read I can almost hear Joni saying those things and SQUAWKING and laughing too! Thanks to our Ladies of the Canyon...and it's not too late to get a copy of the LACE interview if you want it, I have received an electronically cleaned up copy from Patti (big tip of the ten gallon hat for that Patti!) and I can even throw in a copy of the card that was handed out at the exhibit (to clarify, this would be a XEROX'ed copy of the card). And also a big SC thank yew to Phyliss for sending this to me. I am surely getting spoiled! :~) Anyways, let me know if you want to get hooked up with a copy of it... It's been a lazy day here in South Carolina, as we're covered up with snow & ice, something we see about every five years... Bob NP: Aimee Mann, "One", from Magnolia - this IS an excellent record!! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 23:47:33 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: LACE transcription > > A huge THANK YOU to Kakki and Lindsay for their efforts to get this > remarkable interview "down on paper." Joni shares with us so much of her > creative processes...her inspirations and techniques...all without > reservation. Great stuff! > > Scott I'll second that. Kakki you are the queen of the Joni Alert Squad & Lindsay you are the Empress of the Scribes! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #28 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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