From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #26 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, January 22 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 026 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- RE: most depressing song(VLJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] re: joni/anger ["Takats, Angela" ] Wally [Medric Faulkner ] Re: joni and anger ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Wally's Health ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: joni and anger ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Wally's Health JC [Linda Worster ] Wally [Steve Dulson ] Re: joni and anger [catman ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [catman ] Re: Wally's Health [catman ] Re: most depressing song(VLJC) [catman ] Re: Wally's Health [catman ] Re: joni/anger [catman ] RE: Wally's Health [Deb Messling ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [Mike Friedman ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L [catman ] Re: most depressing song(VLJC) ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Wally's Health ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L ["Mark or Travis" ] THE most depressing....(vljc) [KerriLynn@aol.com] Wally's health [FMYFL@aol.com] Dear Wally, [Kate Tarasenko ] Re: RE: Wally's Health ["Claudia SansSoucie" ] RE: Wally's Health ["Eric Taylor" ] To Wally, with Love [JRMCo1@aol.com] Dear Wally ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:13:57 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: most depressing song(VLJC) Don tortures Lou: >Harper, I'm surprised at you ... since you've quit, I >thought surely you'd pick "Smokin' --Empty Try >Another" as the most depressing Joni song! ;-) It IS depressing. Why, Joni, why?? Does anyone else think it starts off sounding kinda like Pink Floyd's "Money"? Or is it just me... I am so full of depressing song ideas that I think I'm going to have to drink myself into oblivion. Thanks a lot, guys! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 08:17:27 +1100 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: re: joni/anger Don wrote: <> Your comments are very interesting Don...I agree that Joni is a very talented and, well, just brilliant song writer ... and there is such depth to her songs...u r right that she is always asking herself why she's where she is - instead of bitching about it...it's obvious she spends a lot of time thinking and analysing things... Some of the 'angry' songs you've mentioned i am yet to hear - I haven't heard DED yet... As for Alanis...I have never been a big fan..but I do like her newest album...I think the youth of today find her work so easy to relate to - I do belive that is real anger in her songs, and it's anger that most people my age can understand...I play joni's work to friends and it's too complex, I don't know if it's an age thing, but they don't want to take the time to digest and think about her lyrics..it's just an "I don't get that" - move onto the next song - still don't get it - opt for something less complex...do u know what i mean? more thoughts Ange Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 13:33:47 -0800 (PST) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Wally Leslie, It was beautiful of you to inform us in such a loving way. Medric __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:32:23 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: joni and anger Ange says: >I've been listening to some Alanis Morissette stuff lately....so >many of >her >songs are overflowing with anger and deep hurt...and i've been >thinking >about joni's work, and trying to come up with songs in which she >expresses >such anger...i don't have all her albums, but even when she seems to >be at >her worst - very down and 'blue' she never really displays anger at >her >situation? any ideas from listers on this topic? I think Joni is a deeper person than Alanis (in all fairness to Alanis, it may be too soon to tell). Joni seems to see things, oh shucks, from "both sides now" - she can see a situation from all sides. I think Alanis was just very angry when she did "Jagged little pill". I wonder if there's an age-difference or generation thing going on too? People are freer with their language these days, the f-word seems to be every second word with some people (to the deteriment of all the other words they could be using instead). Alanis seems to be on a rant in some of her songs, whereas Joni sometimes rants but it seems more therapeutic for her - and she never seems to lose her sense of humour through it all, or her sense of irony, or whatever. Just a random rant. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:34:32 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Wally's Health >I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I >share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering >yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow >such things to happen to such people as Wally. > >As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication >and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet >would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... Don, that was so well-expressed. It does make you wonder, doesn't it? I didn't even want to say anything. What is there to say? God love him. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 21:37:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: joni and anger Ange, on Alanis, says: >And when i think of it, Alanis' voice does come across as almost >'ugly' in >some of her really angry songs...cause she's just fuming Doesn't it make you wonder - just how long can a person remain that fumingly angry? I mean, usually you just blow up, you rant, then it's over. It's such an intense emotion it couldn't possibly last that long. Could it? On the other hand now, depression, that can last a looooonnnnngggg time... Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:38:56 -0500 From: Linda Worster Subject: Re: Wally's Health JC Susan wrote: >This topic is very JC as far as I'm concerned. No rules apply. > and Don added: >As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication >and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet >would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... I was thinking this same thing. I too am very sad and send my love to Wally, Jim and you all. Linda ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 14:36:32 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Wally I am heartbroken to read of Wally's condition. My prayers are with Wally, and Jim, and with this wonderful community that Wally has done so much to create. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:31 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni and anger > inspired by depression anger and depression seem to be the same thing only depression is anger unexpressed or denied. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:44 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L I know this is ot a popular view, but I hate live albums! Am always so diappointed. Why do they have to change the damn songs? Okay, a little change here and there but really to change the whole thing just pisses me off. and joni is a big offender to me! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:40 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni and anger I would suggest there is much anger on display in DED and TI. Prhaps it is more an anger at the world and injustice rather than at people who have personally hurt her(tho The Windfall is just one). Job's Sad Song is also a raging song but maybe not personal, tho i fail to see how she was singing that in a detached way. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:36 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Wally's Health Don Rowe wrote: > I couldn't agree more with Sue Mac on both points -- I > share a deepending saddness over this news, wondering > yet again, if a more charitable God would even allow > such things to happen to such people as Wally. The suffering of people is dreadful beyond words but i don't think it has anything to do with God. Imagine what a world it would be if the rules were changed when it suited?NO ONE but NO OnE deserves an unkind death. maybe one day we will know the answers. My friend Ann died last week of pancreatic cancer. She was a homeopath and a counsellor. she was 60 She gave much to people. She was the wife of my theapist-now friend. She died painless and at peace and as she said'her work here was done' and she was ready to 'go home'. > > > As for the NJC tag -- were it not for the dedication > and heroism of Wally Breese -- the entire Internet > would be "NJC." And our world darker for it ... > > Don Rowe > > ===== > "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com - -- To change the world-change your self "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:59 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: most depressing song(VLJC) Here it is fairly common to have a 'suicide tape' which is a compilation of the saddest sonmgs one an think of. Actually just remmebred another which oputs a lump in throat everytime-Scorn Not His Simplicity by Sinead O'Conner.(about a child born with handicaps) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Wally's Health I was deeply moved by this message about wally(and also angered). There is nothing I can say that will make any difference to Wally at present but I know wally will never cease to exist, tho he will leave his body behind. Once his suffering is over he will be on a tremendous exciting journey. With much love going with him. The bit that angered me: the fucking(scuse my french)insurance people!!! Seeing US medical programs and docs, we know the situation. How truly tacky and meansprited and totally digusting. Okay our NHS is by no means perfect but at least it is still humane and you can get the best treatment regardless of your 'worth'. You can also get the worst regarldess but mostly you are treated and not got to sign bloody papers the minute you arrive in the casualty dept. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:44:02 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: joni/anger > but they don't want to take the time to > digest and think about her lyrics..it's just an "I don't get that" - move > onto the next song - still don't get it - opt for something less > complex...do u know what i mean? Yes! But I don;t think it is confined to just the young. Most people live that way-nat wanting to know much. The way tv and news is presented doesn't help. No one has much of an attention span it seems. Life is too fast and meaningless for may. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:48:51 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: RE: Wally's Health Thanks, Leslie, for keeping us informed. I trust that Wally realizes what a difference he has made in the lives of so many people. Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ I love cats. They give the home a heartbeat. - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 15:54:12 -0800 From: Mike Friedman Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L But what's even worse, to me, is when people cover another artist's song, and DO IT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as the original! I wanted to puke every time I heard "Turn the Beat Around" in the version by Gloria Estefan. Vicky Sue Robinson sang it fabulosly the FIRST TIME, Glo. Mike > From: catman > Reply-To: catman > Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:40:44 +0000 > To: JONI DIGEST > Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L > > I know this is ot a popular view, but I hate live albums! Am always so > diappointed. Why do they have to change the damn songs? Okay, a little change > here and there but really to change the whole thing just pisses me off. and > joni > is a big offender to me! > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 16:14:40 -0800 From: Steve Dulson Subject: Anger/depression/Wally Please note this day. I've finally agreed with Colin on something. Colin wrote: The bit that angered me: the fucking(scuse my french)insurance people!!! ...How truly tacky and meansprited and totally digusting. Okay our NHS is by no means perfect but at least it is still humane and you can get the best treatment regardless of your 'worth'. ######################################################### Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com "The Tinker's Own" http://www.tinkersown.com "Southern California Dulcimer Heritage" http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/ "The Living Tradition Concert Series" http://www.thelivingtradition.org/ (Website under construction!) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:31:48 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L Mike Friedman wrote: > But what's even worse, to me, is when people cover another artist's song, > and DO IT EXACTLY THE SAME WAY as the original! Yes!!! Although i tend not to like covers of any sort-unless it was the cover I heard first!(one that comes to mind-I like Summer's Could It Be Magic but dislike Manilow's, whose version I heard later). ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:43:04 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Anger/depression/Wally Steve Dulson wrote: > Please note this day. I've finally agreed with Colin on something. seek and ye shall find. > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 17:40:43 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: most depressing song(VLJC) > Gee, I must be more depressing than I thought. I'm loving the thread, and > you all mentioned some of my favorite songs: Hello In There, I Think It's > Going To Rain Today, River, Rainy Night House, Danny Boy, Great > Mandella.... > > Jerry Seriously (although I really do find 'River' to be a downer) the most depressing song I can come up with is 'Gloomy Sunday'. I know there are lots of others and I like a sad tune as well as the next Joni Mitchell fan but 'Gloomy Sunday' (which I should clarify is *not* a Joni Mitchell song) is just way overboard. I don't quite know how to describe what I feel about 'Sire of Sorrow'. The personal associations I have with it make it hard to listen to. But I admire the song so much that I can't really say that I find it depressing.... Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:09:07 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Wally's Health Suemac wrote: We would > have never come together if it wasn't for Wally's vision. This is the plain unvarnished truth. Wally is the pioneer that pointed the way for the rest of us. I, for one, will always be grateful to him. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:14:16 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Request/Explanation/Enquiry/S&L > But then thinking about In France They Kiss On Main Street, Edith And > The Kingpin, etc, etc, God they're all so good. I hardly ever get the > studio albums out to listen to these tracks, they are hugely surpassed > by their live versions.. I have the same feeling about some of the songs on 'Miles of Aisles'. In particular, 'A Case of You', 'Blue', 'Cold Blue Steel & Sweet Fire', 'Woman of Heart & Mind' and 'For Free'. Something about the immediacy and spontaneity of live performance really enhances these songs. I also like the sound of her voice better on MOA than on 'Blue' or 'LOTC'. Much less screechy. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:25:48 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: joni and anger But I do think it's interesting that someone like Joni - who has a > gift of expressing the most complex situations/emotions/relationships in her > work...seems to have avoided touching on an emotion that so many of us can > relate to... > more of my thoughts > - Ange > Sydney Well with all of the discussion of the shin kicking incident, the song 'The Windfall' comes to mind. If she isn't good & pissed off (and disgusted) when she sings 'You'd eat your young alive/for a Jaguar in the drive' I don't know what she is! I also think her voice sounds pretty harsh on certain lines in 'Sex Kills'. And she also does a good job of portraying Job shaking his fist at God in 'Sire of Sorrow' imo. 'Tax Free' on Dog Eat Dog' also comes to mind - 'Preacher preachin' love like vengeance/preachin' love like hate'. Not pretty. Not happy. Not sad. Pissed off! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:51:09 EST From: KerriLynn@aol.com Subject: THE most depressing....(vljc) okay okay.... one of your favorite lurkers here.... "if leavin' me is easy", by phil collins is by far the most depressing songs done by a non Joni.... (imho) also.... "case of you" is a total fave, as i'm in tears listening...... kerrilynn ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:24:34 EST From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Wally's health Leslie, Thank you so much for keeping us informed on Wally's health. For the past year and a half, when I learned of Wally's illness, I have prayed for him daily. I have sent all of the good vibes that I could, and I'm not about to stop now. He's the man who has made such a difference in my life; in all of our lives. Joni may be the woman who has inspired so many of us, but Wally is the man who inspires me daily. My thoughts and prayers are with you Wally, and I'll be speaking with God all night tonight! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 22:05:26 +0000 From: Kate Tarasenko Subject: Dear Wally, Although my heart is breaking, I'm also grateful and happy knowing that you are the root from which so many friendships and wonderful experiences have grown. I've met (and virtually met) many great people and done things I would not have if it weren't for you and Les. Your selflessness and dedication to the Joni site, along with Jim's tireless help, and Les' devoted work for the list, have created a foundation of love, and your positive influence and energy have grown exponentially, as they are carried daily on the words and deeds of hundreds of JMDLers. Thank you. I wish you peace and comfort, and the knowledge of the love you have helped to create. Kate in CO P.S. Thanks to Leslie for keeping us up with the news. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:21:39 -0500 From: "Claudia SansSoucie" Subject: Re: RE: Wally's Health >Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 18:48:51 -0500 >From: Deb Messling >Subject: RE: Wally's Health >Thanks, Leslie, for keeping us informed. I trust that Wally realizes what a >difference he has made in the lives of so many people. I second that - Wally, thanks for giving us all this community! Knowing that there are other human being listening, thinking, and talking about an artist that has deeply influenced me and tought me about artistic expression, integrity, and high standards has meant a lot to me. I have the digests forwarded to my work place and at lunch I usually hover behind my screen to catch up with everyone's thoughts and stories. There are no words to truly tell you how wonderful you are for having made it possible for us to be together despite the fact that we don't really know each other. Isn't it funny though how Joni makes us feel somehow deeply connected. Thanks for your tremendous vision and dedication - your spirit is simply amazing. Thanks also to Jim and Leslie. With much gratitude - My very best to you! Claud9 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 00:37:45 -0800 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: RE: Wally's Health Harper Lou shares my experience exactly: << JoniMitchell.com was the first place I ever visited on the Internet, and I could not imagine it not being there. I don't know you personally Wally, but I've seen your spirit, and it's a great one! Thank you! >> The first thing I typed in a search engine when I went online January '97 was Joni Mitchell & was immediately directed to Wally's stunning site. To this day I haven't encountered anything even approaching the integrity & beauty of www.jonimitchell.com ! Because of Wally Joni was reunited with her daughter, thousands are being turned onto SIQUOMB & we were treated to Painting With Words & Music. I only hope I accomplish something so miraculous in my lifetime! My favorite teaching, A Course In Miracles, states: "Whenever you offer a miracle to another you are shortening the suffering of both of you." You have facilitated miracles for not only Joni but many of us, Wally! Eternally grateful, E.T. __________________________________________ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 01:39:07 EST From: JRMCo1@aol.com Subject: To Wally, with Love I'm celebrating the life and spirit of Wally Breese tonight. It's a wondrous sensation to contemplate his soul. Webmaster of the universe. Dream weaver. He opens wide the doors of perception into the artist I admire ardently above all others... His labor of love completes my musical appreciation wanderlust perfectly. JM.com is magical, timeless and immortal. So are you, Wally Breese. Thank you for answering my gushing emails to you about your fascinating interviews with Ingrid Pastorious, Dave Crosby and the others. The sensitivity and thoroughness you bring so selflessly to everything you do is appreciated and admired so much by me. Since I found you and your site my whole life has been profoundly and wonderfully changed. The voices of a millon angels cannot express my gratitude. Keep on keeping on and know we love you. - -Julius ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2000 23:10:46 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Dear Wally Dear Wally, I'm sad to hear of your suffering. Your courage through this ordeal has continually amazed me. Your website was the first one I visited when I got on the internet, too. I spent about 5 hours that night just mesmerized experiencing your labor of love for Joni. I have returned many, many times to read the updates, the interviews, the reviews, the lyrics, and all for hours on end. Thank you so much for what you have done. I never thought that first internet search would lead to so much in my life. I'll always remember meetnig you and your friends at Gladstone's in Malibu that first night of Joni's concerts in SoCal. I remember seeing you at the intermission with Mariana and we were all just so giddy to have seen Joni play - Mariana for the very first time, and for me after a long stretch since Miles of Aisles. In my mind's eye I recall us all practically jumping up and down, we were so high. Little did we know then that just a week later we would be getting together again for those unbelievably fantastic nights at the tapings. Your smiling face will forever be immortalized in Painting With Words and Music. I'm so happy that your dream led you to actually become a friend to Joni and were able to spend that weekend with her. Peace and love to you, Wally Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #26 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?