From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #16 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, January 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 016 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Did you MISS anything? ["Catherine McKay" ] off the list for a while [Bounced Message ] RE: The Second Coming [Don Rowe ] Re: The Second Coming [Kathleen Kajioka ] RE: The Second Coming ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: real good for free [Martin Giles ] Re: real good for free [Martin Giles ] Re: real good for free [Scott Price ] Companion is Awesome [Bounced Message ] Re: real good for free ["Kakki" ] Re: off the list for a while [Vince Lavieri ] BSN for the academic [Vince Lavieri ] 2000 Purchases (VLJC) [Joseph Palis ] aloha [ubingo@webtv.net (bingo)] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 15:10:43 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Did you MISS anything? Brett was away and now he's back and he asks, did he miss anything. DID YOU MISS ANYTHING??? You missed Joni's participation in the GREATEST discussion of all time!! I am KIDDING - get that pulse back down and stop hyperventilating. I was away too. Welcome back. And Happy New Year and all that. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 09:31:00 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: off the list for a while From: Anne Sandstrom Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:34:29 -0500 Hi everyone. Well, I intended to be un.sub.scribed only while I was away on vacation, but it looks like I'll be away a while longer. My mom passed away last week. (even though she'd been having some health problems over the past year, it was still very sudden). So, I'm still very much in shock, rather behind at work (so what else is new?), and trying to sort through all her stuff with my brother and sisters. I hope to be back by the time Joni's new album comes out. In the meantime, take care of yourselves. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 10:44:52 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: The Second Coming - --- "Ross, Les" wrote: > I was listening to this (Slouching Towards Bethlehem) in the car coming in to work > this morning Every time I put this on in the car and crank it up, when the police sirens come in way off in the background, my palms start to sweat and I frantically check my mirrors ... every time, no kidding, that's how wrapped up in it I get -- I completely forget those damned sirens are part of the mix! Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 14:33:36 -0500 From: Kathleen Kajioka Subject: Re: The Second Coming Hi Everyone. I've enjoyed all the chat about "Slouching". I discovered this song when I was away at music school (classical), and it was through Joni's treatment of this legendary Yeats' poem that I came to recognize what art really is. Because it's not as though the original poem is simply set to music. And the alterations and additions to the original poem are not just patchwork for the sake of making it fit a musical form (I think many others less sophisticated than Joni would have been satisfied with that). I perceived that this is not just a clever 'rendering' of the poem, but that it is something wholly different. It seemed to me that she has ingested the poem, that it has sunk deep inside her and mingled and merged with the depths of her experience and re-emerged fully integrated into her own voice. In this song, the communicative vessel (the poem) that Yeats created was immersed in the alchemical fire of Joni's soul and emerged transformed into a "Joni Mitchell song". Amazing. This taught me a lot about where art comes from--how our experience enters the depths of our being, and that 'art' is the other half of the cycle where the experience, having been digested within, finds its way out again through creativity. Good day everyone! Kathleen ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:31:48 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: The Second Coming Don wrote: Every time I put this on in the car and crank it up, when the police sirens come in way off in the background, my palms start to sweat and I frantically check my mirrors ... every time, no kidding, that's how wrapped up in it I get -- I completely forget those damned sirens are part of the mix! Me too! I keep looking around for cop car or an ambulance and wondering whether I should pull over! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:52:40 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: real good for free I asked.. > So I was wondering, has Joni ever explained how she developes/creates a > tuning for a song? Bill replied: > The only thing I have repeatedly heard in this regard is that > she tunes to her environment, finding "sonic references" from > birds, water, wind etc. And Bob agreed.. > ...for Magdalene Laundries, she says that she went to the coast and tuned the > guitar to the sounds the birds were making, because she wanted to write a > happy song. Now this sounds like she was speaking with tongue lightly planted in cheek to me. I know She's a hippy chick, but what key is a blackbird in? Maybe I'm too rational/cynical though, eh? On a side note, I once recorded some bird song and then played it back three octaves down on a sampler, (one quarter speed), and it didn't sound all pretty and sweet anymore, it had transformed into a series of very intimidating bellows and roars. The birds seemed to be shouting, "GET OFF MY TURF BUSTER!" Which is probably how it sounds to other birds. Back to Joni - My suspicion that she is in the habit of exploring different tunings and maybe later comes back to write a song with something she has already sorted out. The Zoob chimed in.. > What I love doing is playing the piano songs in DADF#AD (BYT, YOu Turn Me > On, 3 Great Stims etc etc) and fairly simple to transcribe too. Yep, that's the kind of thing I was trying. But in a way it seemed a little literal, if you know what I mean. I'm was looking for a much more melancholic tuning, something more haunting. Sue McNamara's description of how she transcribed Impossible Dreamer seems to be the sort of direction that I should have gone. Armed with said advice, I'm going to spend some time this weekend having another go! Thanks Sue, and all who have responded. I really hope that I can come up with something 'authentic'. It would be a blast to record it and see what everyone thinks! atb, Martin. Sue helped out with.. > The clearest way to figure out Joni's tunings is by getting the barre chord > first. She also has a hook pattern in most of her songs. In the beginning > intro of Impossible Dreamer there is a chord progression that translated > easily into a barre chord progression on the guitar (if you've ever played > People's Parties you know what I'm talking about). The chord progression > starts at the 7th fret and goes up the fret board to the 6th and then the > 2nd. So I figured out what chords Joni was using on the piano for that > progression and then at first realized it was a D tuning and then played > around with the strings until it sounded just like the piano chords. I > came up with a wierd tuning: DAEGBD I thought it sounded pretty close > although my version of Impossible Dreamer is a little slower and more moody > than Joni's from DED. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 19:52:40 +0000 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: real good for free I asked.. > So I was wondering, has Joni ever explained how she developes/creates a > tuning for a song? Bill replied: > The only thing I have repeatedly heard in this regard is that > she tunes to her environment, finding "sonic references" from > birds, water, wind etc. And Bob agreed.. > ...for Magdalene Laundries, she says that she went to the coast and tuned the > guitar to the sounds the birds were making, because she wanted to write a > happy song. Now this sounds like she was speaking with tongue lightly planted in cheek to me. I know She's a hippy chick, but what key is a blackbird in? Maybe I'm too rational/cynical though, eh? On a side note, I once recorded some bird song and then played it back three octaves down on a sampler, (one quarter speed), and it didn't sound all pretty and sweet anymore, it had transformed into a series of very intimidating bellows and roars. The birds seemed to be shouting, "GET OFF MY TURF BUSTER!" Which is probably how it sounds to other birds. Back to Joni - My suspicion that she is in the habit of exploring different tunings and maybe later comes back to write a song with something she has already sorted out. The Zoob chimed in.. > What I love doing is playing the piano songs in DADF#AD (BYT, YOu Turn Me > On, 3 Great Stims etc etc) and fairly simple to transcribe too. Yep, that's the kind of thing I was trying. But in a way it seemed a little literal, if you know what I mean. I'm was looking for a much more melancholic tuning, something more haunting. Sue McNamara's description of how she transcribed Impossible Dreamer seems to be the sort of direction that I should have gone. Armed with said advice, I'm going to spend some time this weekend having another go! Thanks Sue, and all who have responded. I really hope that I can come up with something 'authentic'. It would be a blast to record it and see what everyone thinks! atb, Martin. Sue helped out with.. > The clearest way to figure out Joni's tunings is by getting the barre chord > first. She also has a hook pattern in most of her songs. In the beginning > intro of Impossible Dreamer there is a chord progression that translated > easily into a barre chord progression on the guitar (if you've ever played > People's Parties you know what I'm talking about). The chord progression > starts at the 7th fret and goes up the fret board to the 6th and then the > 2nd. So I figured out what chords Joni was using on the piano for that > progression and then at first realized it was a D tuning and then played > around with the strings until it sounded just like the piano chords. I > came up with a wierd tuning: DAEGBD I thought it sounded pretty close > although my version of Impossible Dreamer is a little slower and more moody > than Joni's from DED. > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:34:48 -0800 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: real good for free At 07:52 PM 1/13/00, Martin Giles wrote: >I know She's a hippy chick, but what key is a blackbird in? >Maybe I'm too rational/cynical though, eh? Martin, My impression is that Joni really does imagine, say, a bird chirping, and then fiddles with the guitar strings until the chord shape is what she's looking for. She does not have any concept of what key she's playing or composing in...only working toward an overall sound and feeling that she's trying to convey. This is part of why it's always been difficult to transcribe her music into notes and staffs because it defies "standard" notation. The musicians who work with her are also given *visual* cues by Joni so they can create the type of riff or sound that she's after. In other words, she wouldn't say to Wayne Shorter, "please come in on the downbeat of the fourth bar with a triple-tongued bluesy scale." Rather, she'd describe to Shorter that it was late at night, maybe raining outside, but they're inside a smoky nightclub, women in evening gowns and men in coats and ties, and "NOW play your sax with this in mind..." It's an abstract approach to music but she obviously has figured out how to put it all together. :-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 13:49:33 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Companion is Awesome From: "Hobbs, Rick - TP2RDH" Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:38:03 -0800 Greetings Joni Fans: This is my first post to this discussion list, but have been watching this People's Party for about a week now. I received the Companion book about a week ago and am still reading it. I also think it is great, a real retrospective and very flattering to our lady of the canyons. I'm up to the long Mingus interview, which I finished this AM. I'm glad to meet other fans and look forward to getting to know you better. Rick Hobbs Hollywood, California USA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 12:58:14 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: real good for free Scott wrote: > My impression is that Joni really does imagine, say, a bird chirping, and then fiddles with the guitar >strings until the chord shape is what she's looking for. She does not have any concept of what key >she's playing or composing in...only working toward an overall sound and feeling that she's trying to >convey. This is part of why it's always been difficult to transcribe her music into notes and staffs >because it defies "standard" notation. In the promotional video for Hits and Misses, filmed around her property in British Columbia, Joni discusses tuning to nature and there is a segment with her sitting on a cliff overlooking the ocean and strumming the sounds she hears on the guitar. Kakki NP: Steely Dan - Black Cow ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:51:08 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: Re: off the list for a while You and your Mom are in prayer; lost my Mom in 1991 so I know what that is. and it is never easy, but God grieves with you... Love and support and prayers from all innthe JMDL Vince ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 18:58:18 -0500 From: Vince Lavieri Subject: BSN for the academic Catherine McKay wrote: > >(the Rev) Vince, taking a second collection on Sunday for BSN > > I knew it! I KNEW they weren't REALLY taking that second collection > for some > altruistic, charity thing - just make sure you have a BSN night and > invite > the whole parish out. It's the "Keep-the-Rev-sane" collection! > > Catherine (in Toronto) > cateri@hotmail.com The Bible study/Scriptural reflection session will be entitled: The Ontological meets the Transcendent: The Eschatological Revelation in the Theophonophic Message of God's Troubadour Joni Mitchell, an exercise in the dialectic of both sides now: Hegelian synthesis or Melanchthonic tension?. Epistoligcal and Hermenutical implication shall also be considered Figure I can charge $300 for the seminar, give 4 Continuing Educational Credits, and get a tax deduction on BSN when I but it. Catherine, coming to the seminar? Registration is limited! By popular demand I can do this is at a JoniFest and make your attendance partly deductible, and prove that the art world can't hold a candle to the Theology world when it comes to insider jargon! > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:13:27 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: 2000 Purchases (VLJC) I wonder what albums the Listers purchase these early days of January 2000. I usually mark an important occasion or event by buying a CD. Some people find this too quirky, but I remember an event more whenever I play the CD. This time, I started the year by purchasing albums I long wanted to buy and which are in different "genre". Its an eclectic bunch. Some were released many years back but I didn't have the resources for its purchase: Jim Chappell - Dusk (solo piano at its most sublime, esp. "Gone") Kenia - (great bossa nova sound, esp. her version of "Over the Rainbow") Manhattan Transfer - Swing (a romping stomp from the 4 vocal virtuousos) Jaco Pastorius - eponymous (great great talent and the brilliance to make the bass sound beyond what I usually associate it to sound. "Donna Lee" is a stand-out here. Trane will be glad) Ethel Merman - Gypsy (Original Broadway Cast). This woman has an enormous range and sounds heartbreaking in songs that I did not expect to sound this touching. Songs like "Everything's Coming Up Roses", "Small World", and "Rose's Turn". I heard that Tyne Daly (sp?) and Bette Midler also had records of this musical. I like the Jule Styne's music and Sondheim's lyrics. I wonder what Merman album can I purchase to equal the quality of singing she demonstrated in this 1959 recording. Joseph np: Genai's "Africa" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 20:27:28 -1000 (HST) From: ubingo@webtv.net (bingo) Subject: aloha send aloha, blessings, ma'na, & more from H.A. mahalo (thanks) ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V2000 #16 ******************************** Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?