From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #298 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, December 15 1999 Volume 01 : Number 298 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Guitar questions [Howard Wright ] Re: Blue "HDCD" [Howard Wright ] Wally's Weekend [Medric Faulkner ] RE: Blue "HDCD" [Jamie Zubairi ] strings and things [Kleronomos@aol.com] wally's weekend [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: wally's weekend [Jerry Notaro ] Re: He aimed really good at me (SJC) ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Blue "HDCD" [Malte.Peters@t-online.de (Malte Peters)] Re: Millenium Countdown [Mark Domyancich ] re Wally at Joni's [Bounced Message ] Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana [Bounced Message ] wally's weekend [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana ["Kakki" ] Re: Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana ["Lisa Peakes" <] Re: Millennium Countdown [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Plug Of The Week #47 [Brian Gross ] snapshots and old recordings [Kleronomos@aol.com] Wally's weekend ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: snapshots and old recordings [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Wally's visit with Joni ["Helen M. Adcock" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:02:37 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Guitar questions There have been some good replies to this already. Here's my 2 cents ... Sue Cooper wrote: >I taught myself how to play guitar many moons ago when I was in high school. >Basically I memorized chords and learned how to finger pick. Later on I did >take lessons for only a couple months and learned the basic notes of the >first 3 frets. What I am wondering is how do you learn to play like Joni >......or like Eric Clapton? or James Taylor? I don't know much about EC or JT, but for Joni there are a few basics to get used to. As others have already mentioned the tunings are essential. If you've already tried them in the past, then great! If you've got some songbooks with the tunings, or from the guitar section of www.jmdl.com, get used to some of the tunings. Pick a few songs you'd like to learn, get the tuning and the chord shapes, and you're half way there. As you get used to a few different tunings you should find you get better at retuning, and you begin to spot relationships between some of the tunings. (You also tend to break quite a lot of strings ;-) ) The strumming/picking style that Joni has is something that takes time to pick up. Maybe start with some of the songs that have a more straight forward strumming style - Chelsea Morning, Clouds, Coyote, Free Man in Paris, People's Parties ... then when you're comfortable with these, try out some of the ones with more picking: Amelia, Hejira, Little Green, Marcie ... >Is there a method that you would recommend to learn? I used to try some of >Joni's tunings that were in the old songbooks from For the Roses and I would >use my parents piano to tune it. I guess what I am wondering is how do >people who play on the really low frets know the notes? > > I always wanted to REALLY learn how to play. When a person does a guitar >solo he is basically just playing the melody, the notes, and not chords, >right? I know Joni is the exception to the rule too because not only does >she play chords and melody but also rhythm too! It's not essential to learn the notes in the way you describe. Remember that Joni happily admits to knowing next to nothing about the names of the chords or notes she uses. You can get a long way on the guitar without knowing much about the names of the notes up and down the fretboard. Because of the tunings, learning the note and chord names for Joni's stuff is harder than usual, and I wouldn't say it's very important. You can learn most of the important stuff by listening carefully to the CDs, getting used to the tunings and chords, and trying to pick up bits from Joni's picking style. You'll soom find that there are chord shapes that Joni uses in many songs, and also certain types of chord changes that appear in many songs. Spotting these patterns can help a lot in the learning process. Outside of Joni's guitar style, knowing chord and note names can help - but the essence of music is the sound, the feeling, the mood ... if you have the sound of what you want to play in your head, you don't need to worry about note names - you just play! For soloing, you are free to play whatever notes you choose. There are no rules saying you have to follow this scale, or play these notes from the melody - whatever sounds good to you is the thing to play! If you want to spend a little time getting into a bit of the theory, what the notes are, what the basic scales are, this can help ... but tuning into the feeling and mood of the music are key skills. To develop these kind of skills, there's no substitute for careful listening. If you've tried to learn a certain song, listen over and over to the original to try and figure out what the important parts of the guitar part are. Try playing along to the original, and try to work out some of the parts from the CD if you can. Learning by listening and copying others is great way to improve. It can be tough, and a little frustrating when it goes slowly, but it really is one of the best ways to learn. > >Do you guys think that lessons are necessary? Or is there a book that you >would recommend that would send me in the right direction?? Thanks for all >your help! > Lessons aren't necessary. They could help - or they could end up being not useful at all, it depends what you want to learn, and what the teacher is like. If you're mainly interested in learning songs and the basic style of people like Joni, James Taylor etc, lessons probably won't be as good for you as teaching yourself from the records, songbooks and tab that's available on the net. If you're also interested in some of the theory side of things, lessons may be a good way to start - but if you're motivated (and it sounds like you're *very* motivated!) you could just as easily teach yourself some basic theory. Teaching yourself from books or by playing along to CDs etc has one big advantage - you get to learn exactly what you want! Marcel already mentioned an excellent guitar book called "The Guitar Handbook" by Ralph Denyer. I can also thoroughly recommend it - it covers virtually all you need to know. Good luck! Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Every country has smart people in it. The trouble is : none of these smart people ever go into politics. - Frank Zappa ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:14:39 +0000 (GMT) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Blue "HDCD" Malte Peters wrote: >I recently bought the "Blue" HDCD Remaster. It was clearly marked as a >remastered version but the cd itself was completely indentically. Now, >to my ears there's no difference between the two versions, so it seems >to me that they just packed an old cd with a new cd-inlay. >Anyone knows about that? Is the cd really the same? >Or is it just my ears :-)? It's not your ears. I had the same problem with Court and Spark - it was labelled as HDCD on the cover, but the CD was the original CD. I took it back the shop and got my money back. There is one way to double-check if the CD is a genuine HDCD or not. All the true HDCDs had the artwork redone, and there should be a credit on the back saying something like "Artwork redesigned by Robbie Cavolina", probably also with a date of 1997 or 1998? I think this is the best way to check what you're buying. This seems to be a particular problem in many European countries. I've seen many Joni CDs with HDCD stickers on them that were NOT genuine HDCDs. It's a real con, and it seems to happen in many shops. There are a couple of audio glitches on my copy of Blue and C&S, but it seems impossible to find the genuine HDCDs for these in Europe, so I will have to wait to replace my CD copies ... Of course, the audio difference between normal and HDCD versions are usually fairly subtle (apart from the huge difference in volume!), but there should certainly not be any audible glitches on the HDCD versions. There certainly are a few glitches on the regular Blue and C&S releases. The artwork credit is probably the best check for genuine HDCDs. I have started writing letters to complain about this HDCD labelling problem. It's just dishonest. Howard ******************************************************* Howard.Wright@ed.ac.uk Every country has smart people in it. The trouble is : none of these smart people ever go into politics. - Frank Zappa ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 05:30:53 -0800 (PST) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Wally's Weekend Beautiful. Good luck to you, Wally. Medric __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:06:53 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: Blue "HDCD" The new reissues of the Robbie Cavolina Artwork HDCD's in Tower Recors in London - LOTC, Blue, STAS, Clouds are all made in Germany, and yet the HDCD's of Hits and Misses are made in the US. I would only buy HDCDs that are imported to guarantee genuine HDCDness. I bought the STAS thinking that with the process they would have cleared up most of the muffle. I tried comparing the two (with my Mother's CD on her CD player) and found that they sounded exactly alike. I returned the cd to Tower Records in Piccadilly the next day. Buy your HDCD's on import. I have a friend who offered to buy me a whoole list of US HDCDs of Joni's and will be getting them in January. Is the player really necessary? My MOA sounds incredible as it is slightly longer than my original cd - they obviously went to the trouble of going back to the masters. Don't buy any HDCD's with just the sticker. That's the obvious con. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:01:12 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: strings and things Clark writes: << I wanted to ask guitarists on the list how often they change their guitar strings. And what are the advantages/disadvantages to light or heavy gauges of strings? Are Martin strings the best?>> << And for recording on a four track, what are the best cassettes? I recently recorded over some old cassettes and can hear remnants of the original recordings. >> I change strings about every month. When you play Joni stuff and other alternate tunings, you tend to break strings more often, and that forces you to get new ones anyway. I've been buying D'Addarios (get them online... search "guitar strings") and like them better than the Martin Marquis 80/20s I was using. I can get a week or two more out of them by also buying singles of the .12 "e" string. I play fairly regularly. If you play less frequently, then strings may last longer, but just being stretched on a guitar (not being played), they will lose harmonic qualities in a few months. Old strings are also harder to tune... it takes fewer turns of the peg to change the frequency, because the strings are no longer as elastic. I'm using Gibson 740s on my Strat, and I like them fine. I've wondered what strings Joni prefers. As far as I can tell, she doesn't play much acoustic any more, favoring the Parker Fly instead. (I wish they'd make the Fly in lefty!) Re: 4 track tapes: Any high quality tape (setting: "high", not "norm") will do fine for 4track recording, though I use Quantegy TypeII 70msEQ 472 or TDK PRO 70ms TypeII High bias for more important recordings. Note: if you record over a tape THAT WAS ORIGINALLY RECORDED IN THE SAME DECK, you shouldn't have any leftover sounds, unless your deck is really messed up. The residual sounds you experienced are probably from the alignment being different on the other deck that recorded your old tape. You should record important stuff on NEW tape, and High Bias is all you should really need for most purposes. There is a new Recording Website for home recording enthusiasts. Very helpful site, with a great message board and friendly and expert folks to answer your recording questions. Its temporary home (changing soon) is http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb759584&TL=944852859 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:37:36 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: wally's weekend i think i may have missed this post. i got one about a month or so ago but if a new one with more story came out, could some one please forward to me. thanks. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:12 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Re: wally's weekend Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: > i think i may have missed this post. i got one about a month or so ago but > if a new one with more story came out, could some one please forward to me. > thanks. pat The new story with loads of pictures is on the jonimitchell.com website just posted by Wally. Jerry np: Ann Hampton Callaway - This Christmas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 17:35:49 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: He aimed really good at me (SJC) Victor, who took the car, and not the choochoo, writes: >I was bored today driving home from Chattanooga, so I made this attempt at >parody (inspired by all this Y2K paranoia which I think is completely >ridiculous.) > >(to the tune of For Free) > >I spent last night in the hood...do tell, >I went shopping today for guns. >The wind blew around in the dusty town, >As I handed one to my sons. Get this recorded ASAP so you can make a few bucks before it's too late! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:48:44 -0700 From: "Alison Einerson" Subject: Re: Wally's weekend Hello All, I don't post to the list very often, but having just read Wally's account of the unimaginable weekend he spent with Joni, I am just compelled to comment with tears in my eyes. You always imagine that someone for whom you have so much respect and admiration would be as kind, gracious and true and Joni Mitchell seems to be. Wally, I am so happy that your efforts have brought you (and me!) this close to something you love so much. It felt like being there, so thank you thank you! My heart and thoughts are with you, Alison E. in SLC. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:43:13 +0100 From: Malte.Peters@t-online.de (Malte Peters) Subject: Re: Blue "HDCD" on the back of my copy *is* a note saying "Repacked by Robbie Cavolina". ("Artword redesigned" seems a bit exaggerated, since only the back looks a bit different.) So I guess this isn't a safe way to check what you're buying either. Besides, does any european fan know where I can get the genuine remasters without paying a whole lot of money at an american (online-)shop for taxes & shipping? Malte ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 11:56:40 -0600 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Millenium Countdown I could do better about the connection with James Taylor: Joni sings backup on "You've Got A Friend." (Bob, you've got some competition! :-D Mark NP-Paul Simon-Negotiations and Love Songs-St. Judy's Comet (In constant rotation for DAYS!) ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | ICQ: 21619464 | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:58:10 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: re Wally at Joni's From: "geronimo" Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:33:20 +1100 Much as I love Joni I'm a bit worried about those trainers she's wearing in the full length photo of her and Wally! Sounds like a great weekend - I particularly love the idea of Joni squashed up in the back of the rent-a-car car giving directions (well I'm making up the squashed up bit, but you get the idea.) Nicholas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:57:29 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana From: "geronimo" Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 00:00:42 +1100 Did Joni really say Issac Mizrahi in Rolling Stone ( "Isaac Mizrahi clothing, because it's astounding in its artistic construction.") or is it a misquote somewhere along the line given her previously expressed admiration of Issey Myake (spelling?) whose name starts with the same letters? And to Jim, I agree with everything you said about Havana in Harlem. Its hot on my playlist at the moment. So great! Nicholas ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 10:36:51 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: More JC in press.. In Billboard 12-11-99 there is a small B&W photo of Joni with Larry Klein and Allen Sides, owner of Ocean Way Studios. They are sitting amid the mixing boards of the control room. Joni looks just like she did in Wally's photos. The caption: MITCHELL TAKES SIDES. Reprise Records artist Joni Mitchell works in Ocean Way's Studio B on her upcoming self- produced album for the label, "Both Sides Now," slated for February release. Also, in Rolling Stone 12-30-99 (the same one with the Joni quotes and illustration of her previously posted) Stevie Nicks says: When I was getting started, Joni Mitchell was my greatest influence-because songwriters were the ones who I really emulated, and she was the best of the songwriters. But I don't really listen to her anymore. Now when I sit down at the piano, my influence comes from people who aren't musicians: A friend calls me up in tears about something that's happening to her, and that'll influence what I write. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 14:44:23 EST From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: wally's weekend got the facts on the wally weekend. thanks everyone. pat ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:32:12 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana > Did Joni really say Issac Mizrahi in Rolling Stone ( "Isaac Mizrahi > clothing, because > it's astounding in its artistic construction.") or is it a misquote > somewhere along the line given her previously expressed admiration of > Issey Myake (spelling?) whose name starts with the same letters? Great catch, Nicholas! I'm sure she meant Miyake, too (looked up the spelling ;-) - that is who she has spoken of in the past and her style is much more him than Mizrahi. Maybe someone should write to RS so proper credit is given. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 23:33:29 +0100 From: "Peter Holmstedt" Subject: Plug Of The Week #47 Hi there, "A laid-back blend of rock, blues, folk and country", that's what the press release for this brand new album says : Dave SanSoucie - Dead In Dog Years ( Iko's Music ) Drawing from contemporary and traditional rock, blues, country, jazz and folk influences; singer-songwriter Dave SanSoucie performs acoustic music best described as Roots Music. A native of Pennsylvania, Dave grew up in the suburban Philadelphia area, influenced by artists such as David Bromberg, John Prine, Steve Goodman, Bruce Cockburn, Daniel Lanois and John Gorka. Dave has toured as mandolin- and guitar-player for Nashville singer-songwriter David Olney. He has also shared the stage with Donovan, Steve Young, Steve Forbert, David Lindley and many others. His new album features his original songs and some well chosen covers by artists like John Martyn, Richard Thompson and Neville Brothers. Copies of this beautiful album is available from : Iko's Music 2300 East Market St. York PA 17402 U.S.A. Phone: 717 - 755 -2752 717 - 854 - 7171 Email: iko@worldnet.att.net davesansoucie@att.net If you love any of the above mentioned artists, I'm sure you'll enjoy Dave SanSoucie! Take care, Peter ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:48:24 -0500 From: "Lisa Peakes" Subject: Re: Re major joni in Rolling Stone and Harlem in Havana <> Gotta be Miyake. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 01:58:25 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: Millennium Countdown - ----- Original Message ----- From: >As for the Beach Boys, another route to them would be through their use of >the theremin on Good Vibrations, an instrument very rare in rock, but also >used by Mercury Rev on Deserter's Songs, I've seen theremins used live by 3 bands in the past year Pere Ubu, The Flaming Lips and the aforementioned Mercury Rev. The Butterflies Of Love also used one on their not bad album this year but you're rigjht I don't think the theremin will be replacing the guitar just yet. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 18:51:40 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: Plug Of The Week #47 Here here! Peter plugs a list member! - --- Peter Holmstedt wrote: > > Hi there, > > "A laid-back blend of rock, blues, folk and country", > that's what the press release for this brand new album > says : > > Dave SanSoucie - Dead In Dog Years ( Iko's Music ) > > Drawing from contemporary and traditional rock, blues, > country, jazz and folk influences; singer-songwriter Dave > SanSoucie performs acoustic music best described as > Roots Music. > > A native of Pennsylvania, Dave grew up in the suburban > Philadelphia area, influenced by artists such as David > Bromberg, John Prine, Steve Goodman, Bruce Cockburn, > Daniel Lanois and John Gorka. > > Dave has toured as mandolin- and guitar-player for Nashville > singer-songwriter David Olney. He has also shared the stage > with Donovan, Steve Young, Steve Forbert, David Lindley and > many others. > > His new album features his original songs and some well > chosen covers by artists like John Martyn, Richard Thompson > and Neville Brothers. > > Copies of this beautiful album is available from : > > Iko's Music > 2300 East Market St. > York PA 17402 > U.S.A. > Phone: 717 - 755 -2752 > 717 - 854 - 7171 > Email: iko@worldnet.att.net > davesansoucie@att.net > > If you love any of the above mentioned artists, I'm sure > you'll enjoy Dave SanSoucie! nc: 10.5 days ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:06:54 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: snapshots and old recordings Two things happened recently that had a similar effect on me. One, my wife dug through our pictures and framed a bunch of favorites of our kids (who are now teens: 15, 17, 19). The other was that I got some old recordings of Joni in the mail (from some Joni-guy in SC.... THANK YOU, bob!). I love my girls.... I couldn't love them any more than I do.... but those old pictures are so incredibly precious, and I remember now how I loved them *then*. There is a verse in Proverbs 31 (the chapter with: "a virtuous woman... who can find? for her worth is far greater than rubies") of which I heard a literal translation once.... "perfectly ripe is temporary...". Though my three girls are still "ripening" so to speak, each phase of their growth has been so beautiful and endearing to me, and looking at the pictures, I'm reminded of that. And like some of our pictures, Joni's 1970 BBC performance captured her at a moment of "ripeness" that just knocked me out. I had a tape in the car and was listening for the first time. About half-way through "California," I had to pull the car over and just listen with eyes closed. The old, familiar feelings of what that song meant to me *back then* came flooding back. I've moved on... Joni has moved on, and she wears her maturity beautifully and gracefully (it's for others to judge how I wear mine !), but that moment, captured on tape, really brought home for me again, who she was, and even who I was. What a long, strange trip it's been! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 22:49:01 -0500 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Wally's weekend Now I know what all the clamor was all about. I read Wally's account and am struck with both awe and jealosy. I even took notes! I'm so happy to have found JM.com and JMDL because now I know I'm not alone in my close-to-first-commandment-violation in my worship of Joni. But I also have that melancholy disdain that at one time, at least in my own head, I was her biggest fan; worthy of meeting her in person because I was the only other human being that really understood her. Now that I've found the websites, I realize that I pale in comparison to listeners who have had many more years of exposure (I'm 26) and many more albums and/or CD's than I do. I only wish I were worthy of a "Weekend With Joni", but then again, I probably would be sad it had to end. - -Jenny from CT np: nothing, my husband is trying to sleep and my type-clacking is keeping him up as it is! PS Joni, if you do check out the list and you are reading this, I am your biggest fan in my own mind, and I do love you, as a motherly-type love. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 20:21:39 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: snapshots and old recordings What a lovely post, Dan! And you must have been on the list long enough now, that you've got the synchroncity thing going, too. ;-) >>What a long, strange trip it's been! The Grateful Dead was today's Millennium Countdown artist! Smiles Penny PS Now that Brother Bob has a CD burner, does he qualify as Friar Bob? ;~) :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 17:33:00 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Wally's visit with Joni I loved hearing about Wally's visit with Joni. It's nice to know that she's as warm and friendly as I always hoped she was (and Wally, may Y2K bring you happiness and good health). But I have a question from his story, re the following: "Also up on the wall is the "ideal" painting of Don Freed sitting on a cliff in B.C., which was used both in the TTT album package and as the curtain backdrop during many of the shows on her first tour with Dylan in 1998. I was told that during an exhibition of Joni's paintings, the frame of this picture caused quite a ruckus with those folks who are "in the know" about such things. They insist it's important to keep up with the trends, apparently -- note to self." What was the ruckus about the frame? Does anyone know? Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #298 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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