From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #292 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Friday, December 10 1999 Volume 01 : Number 292 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) ["Kakki" ] Re: All things Joni ["Helen M. Adcock" ] RE: merry christmas/new web site [Jamie Zubairi ] All this talk about Joni CDR [MP123A321@aol.com] Joni Booksearchin' ["Chuck EIsenhardt" ] Re: All this talk about Joni CDR [philipf@tinet.ie] Possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) [mann@chicagonet.net] Re: Guitar questions - LONG [TerryM2442@aol.com] LACE "Photo Tree" [Phyliss Ward ] RE: All this talk about Joni CDR [Anne Sandstrom ] LACE photos [Phyliss Ward ] Photo Tree from Lace and Phyliss [Jerry Notaro ] Re: Photo Tree from Lace and Phyliss [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Lace Photos [Susan McNamara ] LACE photos to 1st 5 [TerryM2442@aol.com] Re: Lace Photos ["Ken (Slarty)" ] London/Euro Joni Fest 2000 [Jamie Zubairi ] LACE photos [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: All things Joni ["Robert Youngken" ] BSN cover painting [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: All this talk about Joni CDR ["Kakki" ] Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) [Don Rowe ] Re: All this talk about Joni CDR [philipf@tinet.ie] Re: Joni Booksearchin' [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: LACE photos posted [Deb Messling ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 00:19:00 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) Penny wrote: > Since you're in Stooz often, maybe you could keep us posted if you > notice any change in their frequency of (having and) selling of > promotional Cd's. Jmdlers also informed Reprise Records and Joni's > management of the illegal eBay listing of BSN by Stooz. And it would be great to keep an eye on Stooz's in-store Joni CD bins, too! > I think what bugged me most about this was that the bootleg was trying > to be sold a full two months before the release date of the Limited > Edition. With the way the price skyrocketed, (I bet his eyes popped > when he saw the bidding) it could almost be expected people would start > burning copies as quick as they could get them out and packaged for > sale. I'm not so bothered by it being on eBay per se as the possibility of the bootleg being shipped off to those countries where this kind of counterfieting is legal. Ever pick up a "Best of" a favorite artist's cassette at your local car wash and be surprised to see it's not on a recognizable label and made in a foreign country? These are the types of sales that truly hurt an artist because the record label and the artist really have no way to stop it because it is outside U.S. jurisdiction (and legal in the country where it's being counterfieted). As far as eBay, I believe they are sincere about wanting to catch these illegal sales because, if they don't, they could be charged as an accessory to a crime and/or subject to lawsuits from the artist/record company. I think we can keep any more off there in the future but will have to be vigilant to nip it in the bud. Kakki NP: Todd Rungren - Utopia ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:24:38 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: First Footing Peter wrote: >Joni went with me to college and I always managed to afford her >latest works, even on a student's meagre pittance. First of all, welcome to the list! And I have to agree, I'd go without a lot of things before I'd go without Joni, and you can be sure I'm going to have enough money available on Feb. 14th for the next album! Mind you, if CSNY's latest is anything to go by, it'll be May 14th before it arrives here! Hope you enjoy yourself here. Some of us are mad, some, sorry MOST! are sane, but we all love Joni, so it's OK! Helen - not telling which of the above categories I fall into, but time will tell! NP - CSNY - Looking Forward _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:32:09 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: All things Joni Julian wrote: >(Fade in the theme from "Cops", "CHiPs" or "Dragnet". SFX: Tires screaching, >police sirens wailing Pan Am hellicopters circling) > >Sgt Richard of the 68th JMDL district pulls out his bullhorn: >" We're half a million strong and we've got you surrounded on both sides >now. Come out with your hands up and leave your father's gun alone." Brilliant! Superb! Wonderful! Watch out, Don/Chris/Larry - you've got some competition! Hell _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:29:59 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: merry christmas/new web site Well, on the Joni's Jazz, someone did a cover of Raised On A Robbery done in a ska/reggae style which was a highlight for me. Joni has reworked Hejira to be more funky and ska in direction. Isn't Solid Love in reggae style anyway? Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 06:53:48 EST From: MP123A321@aol.com Subject: All this talk about Joni CDR I have been reading a lot of responses about the Ebay listing of Joni's recent recording on CDR . I'm very interested to know if I am the only person that isn't distressed about it. As a few people know, I do buy and occasionally sell on Ebay. I know there are others on the list also buy (and sell) Joni items. I could have easily been the bidder on this item, although I knew it would go much higher than I am willing to pay. This is the question: When a promo of this CD hits Ebay or some other market place, people on this list will not listen to it if they could? I know TTT was widely available before it's official release on promo cd. I thought the reason promotional items are sent out is to let people hear the new release, thereby promoting it. Now if they get sold to people that must have them early, that's the cost of ever sending promos out. I understand that the CDR in question may not be a legitimate "promotional" item. But if it is, and you have a tape of it, I will be proud and glad to listen to it and I know there are more. happy holidays... Maurice ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:47:23 -0500 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: Joni Booksearchin' I drop by at http://www.alibris.com from time to time to see what's available in the way of Joni folios and other hard to find/out of print stuff by favorite authors. Today they have some Joni Mitchell Songbooks Vol 1 for $11 (used) That's a great deal! They indicate 'availability guaranteed', so that seems to point to multiple copies. There are a bunch of Complete Poems and Lyrics. Interestingly, the hardcover is already appreciating considerably - in Fine condition in the $40 range. A good opportunity to pick up a hardcover 1st ed. if you missed it in the stores. BTW I have noticed that the publisher didn't bother correcting the errors in the paperback edition. Pretty sloppy. Apply the fire with kindling, y'all... They also have some CD's which will show up if you do an author search on Joni. Today they list a Cd single of Wild Things Run Fast. I say 'today' because these items are mostly singletons and availability is only when you find it. I have actually not ordered anything thru Alibris but they appear entirely legit. ChuckE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 14:04:25 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: All this talk about Joni CDR - ----- Original Message ----- From: > I have been reading a lot of responses about the Ebay listing of Joni's > recent recording on CDR . I'm very interested to know if I am the only person > that isn't distressed about it. I'm not the least bit stressed about it. I'm not even sure that the seller was doing anything illegal if he was selling the original promo copy given to him by Joni or the label. I doubt if the "promo - not for sale" sticker is a legally binding agreement. It's no different from any other record which gains value because of its rarity. If he was making copies, well that's different. Philip ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 08:29:23 -0600 From: mann@chicagonet.net Subject: Possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) The eBay auction was halted but unfortunately the sale probably was not. The seller probably sold the CD to the highest bidder off of eBay or offered it to the second or third highest bidder. If he has more than one CD he can go down the bidder list and keep offering the CD to each bidder for the highest bid amount. The seller can also get the emails of bidders bidding on other Joni items and offer what he has because he sees an interest (also known as SPAM). Laura ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 09:47:46 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Guitar questions - LONG In a message dated 12/8/1999 11:05:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, asandstrom@allaire.com writes: << This probably didn't help too much, so if you have more questions, feel free to email me. >> I think Anne has done a splendid job! I agree with most everything she wrote. Guitar lessons do help- they give you some stepping stones for further exploration. I took guitar lessons at the age of 12, for about 3 months (I was in love with The Beatles!) and then became exasperated because I just could not learn to read music. The teacher, at the end, wrote everything in code, similar to tabs. After that, I learned everything by just exploring on my own. Listening to records over and over again. Watching others play. My older brother was just picking up blues, so I learned a lot from him, especially the tricky finger picking. When it came to Joni, I did what Anne suggested. I tuned the guitar in one of her open tunings and just played. It really helps to think of it as playing, not working, and then things begin to fall into place. If you have a Joni tab songbook, follow her (alternate) chords along with the music. Forget about your right hand for now- just strum. For someone who's never taken lessons, I think it would really help to be shown how to do some finger picking at some point, with that right hand. It's tricky learning it from books, but probably can be done. Another thing Joni does that I adore, is slapping the strings with her right hand to provide some rhythm and texture. Years ago, when she toured with Tom Scott, I lucked out and got front row seats to both her shows here in Detroit. I have no idea what she was wearing, what the crowd was like, etc. because I was studying her hands intensely the whole time. I can't believe how much I learned from those two shows. So, getting some of her videos should really help too. Just my .02- Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:50:08 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: LACE "Photo Tree" Hello All I have a few pictures of Joni's newest paintings, the front cover and some inserts, as well as one of Joni receiving flowers from a few "fans in costume", for lack of a better explanation. I will send these 4 (rather large) files to the first 5 folks who send me a private email requesting them with the understanding that they will each forward them to 5 folks too. This is the best I can think of right now to get the photos out to those who want to see them before I leave on vacation early Saturday AM. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 10:55:56 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: All this talk about Joni CDR For me, the money aspect isn't the most distressing thing about the eBay 'pre-promo.' I don't know, obviously, what exactly is on the CD, whether it really is the final version or not. If it's not, that's even more hurtful. If I were Joni, that's what I would find the most upsetting. I know she likes to have control over what gets released - she strives for the highest quality possible. If this CD isn't the final version, it takes that away from her. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 08:13:10 -0800 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: LACE photos Wow, that was quick! Go technology! I have my 5 generous folks: Susan, Penny, Jerry, Terry, Anne I'll send the photos now. You guys please make your public offer as soon as you get them Thanks!!! - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:28:41 -0500 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: Photo Tree from Lace and Phyliss I've got mine. Now come get yours! I'll reply with Phyliss's photographs. Jerry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:33:14 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: LACE photos I've got the photos - first 5 people to respond to me, I'll send them to you. Also, I'm going to put them up on my own site at lunch- they'll be up by 1:00.. I'll send you all the URL as soon as they're posted. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:37:48 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Photo Tree from Lace and Phyliss Thanks, Phyliss! I got mine and sent them to five already. I'll send to another 5-10, pronto, before I have to leave the house. I hope everyone does the same and doesn't forget the lurkers they might know! Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:37:12 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Lace Photos I've received the photos, too. I'm going to a meeting right now but email me and I'll send them to you after 1:30 EST. Thanks Phyllis!! Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 12:08:03 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: LACE photos to 1st 5 Hi, I'll be happy to send Phyllis' photos to the first 5 who contact me. Ok, maybe I'll be nice and send them to more than 5. : D Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 12:04:32 -0500 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: Lace Photos I've got my copies and will send them off to 10 people. Ken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:00:39 -0000 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: London/Euro Joni Fest 2000 Dear Folks I have just been back from the Troubadour and we are confirmed to be there on the 4th of January 2000 from 7pm. It is a lovely space, with a small stage and little round gingham covered tables. Although the stage will be spotlit, the tables are individually candle-lit. It feels like we would be in the very epicentre of the boho zone (apologies to you Bohemians! ; )) There is a door charge, as we are hiring the space. The more people that sign up, the less it will be. This event is going to be open to non-members as we might introduce new members to the JMDL. For those of you (Marian! Lori!) that are travelling from the continent, it's such a lovely romantic spot. I saw it in afternoon light and was taken in. What it will look like with appropriate Joni decor in candlelight will be even better. The Troubadour are also going to put the event in their newsletter and will be informing 'Metro', the free London paper. (Not that London needs freeing, well, it does, spiritually) so it may be an event where not only members are up there singing and laughing and having fun. I am trying to keep it as tasteful as possible. reply to this email or contact me here: jamie_zubairi@hotmail.com Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:51:15 -0500 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: LACE photos Hi all. Well, I got home at lunch only to discover I'd forwarded the wrong email (without photos) to my home email account. I'll post the photos when I get home from work today. In the meantime, please email me if you want me to send them to you. Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 10:56:23 -0800 From: "Robert Youngken" Subject: Re: All things Joni I hope this hasn't been said already, I didn't read all msgs (sorry): JMDL must stand for the Joni Mitchell Defense League!! > Julian wrote: > >>(Fade in the theme from "Cops", "CHiPs" or "Dragnet". SFX: Tires > screaching, >>police sirens wailing Pan Am hellicopters circling) >> >>Sgt Richard of the 68th JMDL district pulls out his bullhorn: >>" We're half a million strong and we've got you surrounded on both sides >>now. Come out with your hands up and leave your father's gun alone." > > Brilliant! Superb! Wonderful! > > Watch out, Don/Chris/Larry - you've got some competition! > > Hell > _______________________________ > "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with > available extremes" - Carole King > > hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:50:47 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: BSN cover painting Hey, I've been comparing the two different pics I received of Joni's painting of the cover for BSN. The first one is taken somewhat from the right and the second one (today's pic tree) is taken pretty much straight on. In both, it appears Joni is looking directly at the viewer. This might be a dumb question, but how do artists do that trick? Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 13:25:52 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: All this talk about Joni CDR Philip wrote: > I'm not the least bit stressed about it. I'm not even sure that the > seller was doing anything illegal if he was selling the original promo > copy given to him by Joni or the label. The seller advertised is as a "CD-R" and not a promo, plus I don't think the promo has been distributed yet. > I doubt if the "promo - not > for sale" sticker is a legally binding agreement. It's no different > from any other record which gains value because of its rarity. Selling promos may be offensive to some people but it is not illegal. The mid- and large size chains in California sell them all the time in their "Used CD" bins. I recall that some of the record companies tried to stop the practice but they did not prevail and I think that part of the reasoning is that the record companies and the artists effectively waive their right to a income or a royalty on it by giving it away for free. They probably chalk it up as part of the promotional/marketing cost of doing business. If a person receives a gift from someone and then later sells it at a yard sale, the gift-giver may be offended but would not have legal grounds to come back and demand a cut of the proceeds. No doubt we will see promos of Joni's new album being offered on eBay soon, and though it may upset people, it cannot be stopped. Kakki NP: Jimmy Webb - Campo de Encino ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 11:32:59 -0800 (PST) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) Kakki writes ... > I think we can keep any > more off there in the future but will have to be > vigilant to nip it in the > bud. Yes we will, and I hope this won't be a losing fight. This sort of genie isn't easily put back in the bottle. Once a recording is "out there" illegally, my understanding is that it is virtually impossible to stop completely. But it's heartening to see that we are doing our part! Carry on! Don Rowe ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 16:18:28 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: LACE photos posted Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 18:17:52 -0500 From: Anne Rickaby Hi everyone. I put the LACE photos up on my site. To go directly to them, use this URL: http://people.ne.mediaone.net/arickaby/joni1.html If you want to poke around the site, go to http://people.ne.mediaone.net/arickaby Enjoy! Anne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 00:19:49 -0000 From: philipf@tinet.ie Subject: Re: All this talk about Joni CDR Kakki wrote: >. If > a person receives a gift from someone and then later sells it at a yard > sale, the gift-giver may be offended but would not have legal grounds to > come back and demand a cut of the proceeds. yes, it's a similar situation to when that guy sold paintings which Joni gave him as a gift. Well maybe not as bad, to me he was the lowest of the low. > > NP: Jimmy Webb - Campo de Encino > My favourite Webb tune for years. Love the cheap piano sound and the line about police helicopters checking his pad over. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 19:43:36 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni Booksearchin' In a message dated 12/9/1999 9:36:51 AM Eastern Standard Time, chucke@tiac.net writes: << Today they have some Joni Mitchell Songbooks Vol 1 for $11 (used) That's a great deal! They indicate 'availability guaranteed', so that seems to point to multiple copies. >> Thanks for the addy!! I went there just today and they had CAS for $20.00! It sounded like it was pretty used but if you want the songbook that is a GREAT price! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 21:14:57 -0500 From: Deb Messling Subject: Re: LACE photos posted Thanks, Anne, this was a good idea. Guess it would be redundant to offer my pix to the next five takers. At 04:18 PM 12/9/99 -0700, you wrote: >I put the LACE photos up on my site. To go directly to them, use this >URL: > >http://people.ne.mediaone.net/arickaby/joni1.html Deb Messling messling@enter.net http://www.enter.net/~messling/ ~there are only three kinds of people: those who can count, and those who can't. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #292 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?