From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #291 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, December 9 1999 Volume 01 : Number 291 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) [Wolfebite@aol.com] RE: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) ["Wally Kairuz" ] Shadows and Light on video? ["dave foers" ] Re: All things Joni ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Lawyers at LACE? ["Kakki" ] Re: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) ["Kakki" ] Re: All things Joni ["Kakki" ] ebay bootlegs [Kleronomos@aol.com] Joni in GOLD? [Kleronomos@aol.com] Re: Joni in GOLD? ["Robert Youngken" ] FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) ["patrick leader" <] Re: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) ["Mark or Travis" <] Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) [TerryM2442@aol] Both Sides Now 2: Not A Sequel ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: It's hit eBay.... ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: Guitar questions [Randy Remote ] Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) [zapuppy2@webtv] Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) [zapuppy2@webtv] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 15:01:44 EST From: Wolfebite@aol.com Subject: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) hello all i was just thinking about the LACE reports - the comment about joni banging on the door and yelling into the mail slot- 'it's joni mitchell- let me in'. it still laughing that's priceless ...i think i'm tired and need some sleep doug ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:14:25 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) yeah! i laughed hard at that one too. i still am in fact! wallyk, listening to really melancholy xmas music today. the temperature's back to normal [it snowed and it was minus 13 celsius in the south four days ago!!!] and today's a holiday in argentina!!! [thanks heaven for good old catholic traditions in my very conservative country] wallyk - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Para: Enviado: Miércoles 8 de Diciembre de 1999 17:01 Asunto: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) > hello all > > i was just thinking about the LACE reports - the comment about joni banging > on the door and yelling into the mail slot- 'it's joni mitchell- let me in'. > > it still laughing > that's priceless > > ...i think i'm tired and need some sleep > > doug > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 15:31:35 -0500 From: dsk Subject: Lawyers at LACE? Kakki, I just read about a case involving a NYC gallery owner and Amy Adler was quoted in it. She was described as a professor at NYU law school and an expert in art law (whatever that is), so I'm thinking she's a lawyer herself. Is this the same person that curated Joni's show at LACE? Just wondering. If it is, Joni really was among the lawyers at her show. Considering how critical she is of lawyers as a group (or maybe just as a symbol of our modern society?) I find this very interesting. Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:40:33 +0000 From: "dave foers" Subject: Shadows and Light on video? Does anyone know if the 'Shadows and Light' live concert is available on video, preferably PAL?, and if so where can I buy it from?. I know it was released on laser disc some time ago. Thanks. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:03:23 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: All things Joni Julian wrote: ><police. ;-) Gee, I just happened to look it up the address for the heck >of it:>> > > >NYC, Stooz Records >122 E 7th Street >(Fade in the theme from "Cops", "CHiPs" or "Dragnet". SFX: Tires >screaching, >police sirens wailing Pan Am hellicopters circling) > >Sgt Richard of the 68th JMDL district pulls out his bullhorn: >" We're half a million strong and we've got you surrounded on both sides >now. Come out with your hands up and leave your father's gun alone." > Julian - this was excellent! Way to go! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:20:36 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Lawyers at LACE? Debra wrote: > I just read about a case involving a NYC gallery owner and Amy Adler was > quoted in it. She was described as a professor at NYU law school and an expert > in art law (whatever that is), so I'm thinking she's a lawyer herself. Is this > the same person that curated Joni's show at LACE? Just wondering. That is interesting. I really didn't ask much about her and only heard that she is a fairly well-known artist. But she could also be a lawyer. The lawyer at my firm was an art gallery director in New York before he went into law so maybe their paths crisscrossed long ago and that's how they became friends. It is also possible that she is a non-lawyer expert in art law and has the credentials to be doing a stint as a professor there. I have been assigned to certain types of cases over the years based on my art background, too. I got the impression that she is only there temporarily and permanently resides in L.A. > If it is, Joni really was among the lawyers at her show. Considering how > critical she is of lawyers as a group (or maybe just as a symbol of our modern > society?) I find this very interesting. The little I heard is that Joni has become friends with Amy through the art side of it. I would think Joni does like the lawyers that work on the side of artists ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:24:35 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: it hits ya later and ya laugh (sjc) Doug wrote: > i was just thinking about the LACE reports - the comment about joni banging > on the door and yelling into the mail slot- 'it's joni mitchell- let me in'. > > it still laughing > that's priceless I also crack up every time I think of it, too!! It is a priceless story and I'm glad Phyliss caught it. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:47:26 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: All things Joni Oh Julian, this is brilliant and hilarious and belongs in the JMDL Hall of Fame!! Teeheehee ;-) Kakki > (Fade in the theme from "Cops", "CHiPs" or "Dragnet". SFX: Tires screaching, > police sirens wailing Pan Am hellicopters circling) > > Sgt Richard of the 68th JMDL district pulls out his bullhorn: > " We're half a million strong and we've got you surrounded on both sides > now. Come out with your hands up and leave your father's gun alone." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:49:15 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: ebay bootlegs hi folks... just a note about that CD-R (which is a recordable CD... you can duplicate things to CD on your computer). The reason it vanished from the listings is because eBay pulled it. It's a violation of their Terms of Service to offer ANY bootlegged material, whether it's vinyl, tape, or CDR. They will also NOT allow anyone to sell promotional CDs, which are labeled "not to be sold" etc. They do slip through from time to time. A community like eBay depends on sharp-eyed folks to alert them if material is questionable. I'd like to think that the listers did that for them on this one. And may that dealer get what he deserves some day... a good lawsuit! I'm a big eBay fan, and have bought a lot of stuff, and sold a few items there. Most of the sellers are honest, hard-working people, and I've been amazed at times how gracious commerce can be! I've not got burned once, though I'm careful, and check their feedback ratings. Joni is entitled to her royalties. Whether she can "pay her rent" or not is not the issue, IMO. Regarding guitar "lessons".... (Sue Cooper). May I recomment The Guitar Handbook by Denyer. Music is a language. Learn the language, and you can express yourself better! Dan NP: Amelia "it was just a false alarm" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 19:19:03 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: Joni in GOLD? I've been slowly aquiring Joni's albums on CD and I read somewhere (maybe on the list!) about a "gold" CD or something.... I think it was C&S or Blue. Is this a special re-issue.... re-mastered or something? Could someone clue me in on this, and what titles are available in this form? TIA, Dan NP: Amelia (I'm listening to it over and over... I don't get it, but I like it!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 16:56:14 -0800 From: "Robert Youngken" Subject: Re: Joni in GOLD? Generally speaking the gold CDs are mastered from the original recording media, have better and more dense information content (at the acoustic level), and just plain sound better. I just got "Blue", and the differences (in my somewhat revealing system) are very real, and enjoyable. Regular CDs, especially earlier re-releases, really do not have sound that is all that great-the mass market doesn't demand it. Even HDCDs are not that terrific, especially since few of us have HDCD players. Plus, their portrayal of the original music doesn't quite compare to vinyl LPs, which some us us still use. (C&S is much better on LP, IMHO). So much for "perfect sound forever" (the CD mantra). Anyway, JM has had C&S, Blue, and WTRF issued on gold. All but "Blue" are currently out of print, as far as I know. You can still find the others around, check audiophile locations, mags, and eBay (the auction place). I just got C&S and WTRF on eBay. They cost more but they are in my opinion very worth it-its Joni! > I've been slowly aquiring Joni's albums on CD and I read somewhere (maybe on > the list!) about a "gold" CD or something.... I think it was C&S or Blue. Is > this a special re-issue.... re-mastered or something? Could someone clue me > in on this, and what titles are available in this form? > > TIA, > Dan > NP: Amelia (I'm listening to it over and over... I don't get it, but I like > it!) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 20:33:56 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) hey folks, i saw a lot of 'why doesn't someone alert ebay?' and i've just read that it's been pulled, but how 'bout this?! i made it happen! >-----Original Message----- From: Safe Harbor [mailto:SafeHarbor@eBay.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:46 PM To: patrick leader Subject: Re: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) Hello Patrick, Thank you for alerting us to this auction. The auction in question has been ended by eBay. We really appreciate the terrific help from users like yourself. Together, we can all help keep eBay a safe and fun place to trade! As always, if you have a question or problem, please contact us and we will gladly assist you. If you would like to report a questionable item please visit: http://pages.ebay.com/services/safeharbor/report-infringing.html Thanks for using eBay! Regards, Asrai eBay Customer Support > i'm a little sad about this, because stooz' is my neighborhood store (a 5 minute walk from my door) and i buy cds there often. i often see 'promotional copy only, not for sale', and i've bought more than a few. it's a tough call, because the additional income they make by reselling promos (usually sold to them by indie critics) helps them circulate unsigned bands that can't get on cdnow or into tower's racks. no doubts about this one, though, it was an egregious act. further down is my testy post to ebay... patrick np - siberry - lips (bought directly from the artist, who owns the label, which released the album. talk about maximum artist benefit!) Original message follows: - ------------------------- http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=215564863 this is a pre-release cd-rom of joni mitchell's next album; i'm pretty damn certain it's an illegal sale. this should be shut down. for shame. i found it very difficult to send this without registering, which i had absolutely no desire to do. how serious is ebay about illegal sales? i felt like a huge number of obstacles were put up before i could send this. patrick leader new york city ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:36:12 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) > i found it very difficult to send this without registering, which i had > absolutely no desire to do. how serious is ebay about illegal sales? i > felt like a huge number of obstacles were put up before i could send > this. > > patrick leader > new york city > > Three cheers for Patrick! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 22:21:58 EST From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) In a message dated 12/8/1999 9:06:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickl@bway.net writes: << i made it happen! >> Way to go, Patrick! Terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 00:42:27 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Both Sides Now 2: Not A Sequel I just now (Wednesday midnight on USA's east coast) checked on eBay. Found there was an offering described as "Joni Mitchell Final-Mastered CD 2000 NR!" When I looked for details of the auction, I found that the offering "Has been removed from our database." I'm waiting for the nice collector's edition. - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 01:04:06 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: It's hit eBay.... I agree with Kakki on this one. The general public has no access to counterfit CDs, at least where I live in the middle of the USA. I'm sure I could find them if I went looking but here, retailing is done at Wal-Mart. > But not to worry too much because if people do > decide to make more CD-R copies who is really going > to buy them - the real fans are going to want the > real thing and don't mind waiting another few weeks > for it. - -- np: Ice Cream from an officially released Sarah McLachlan CD All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 22:24:29 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: Guitar questions KCooper984@aol.com wrote: What I am wondering is how do you learn to play like Joni > ......or like Eric Clapton? or James Taylor? There's that old joke...the tourist asks the New Yorker "How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" , he says "Practice, practice practice" Joni's playing, and her whole approach to guitar is unique and innovative, yet isolating at the same time. By that I mean that due to it's uniqueness and because it is modal in nature it would be much easier for another musician to play along with her than for her to play what someone else is playing. It would be almost impossible to play some things in some of those tunings. I suspect that Joni's grasp of music theory is tenuous at best. She is an instict player who has sounded out and created her own path on guitar (& piano & dulcimer) Clapton is a blues based player. Blues is very simple musically, at least in it's purest form. It stays in the same key, it's improvisational, and it's based on a pentatonic 5 note scale. Blues players usually know very little music theory, and play instictually. Lead guitar is usually based on movable patterns, in other words, once you know a blues scale, you can move it around the neck depending on what key the song is in. Taylor is from the folk tradition, which often involves cyclic right hand fingerpicking patterns. Also (but not neccesarily)open tunings > Is there a method that you would recommend to learn? I used to try some of > Joni's tunings that were in the old songbooks from For the Roses and I would > use my parents piano to tune it. I guess what I am wondering is how do > people who play on the really low frets know the notes? If someone is in an open tuning, they are probably oblivious to the names of the notes they are playing. > I recently bought a book for my son who is wanting to play electric guitar > (like heavy metal....the kind of music I don't like at all!!!! (a teenager, > don't you know!!! ) In the book that I purchased for him there was a grid of > all the notes on all the frets. Do you know them all??? Most guitarists probably do not know them, but it is certainly a good thing to know. How useful it is depends. If you want to be a jazz player, it would be essential. When you get into barre chords it pays to know at least all the notes on the two lowest (5th & 6th) strings,because most barre chords are based on them. > > I always wanted to REALLY learn how to play. When a person does a guitar > solo he is basically just playing the melody, the notes, and not chords, > right? When a person does a solo, they are playing notes that are compatable with the key the music is in. They may be playing a scale, the melody, a countermelody, several notes together (a chord or part of one). I know Joni is the exception to the rule too because not only does > she play chords and melody but also rhythm too! Generally any folk-fingerpicking approach combines playing the bass notes with some sort of a fill pattern in a certain rhythm. That doesn't always mean the person knows what chords and notes they are playing. > Do you guys think that lessons are necessary? Since you are knocking on the door with all these great questions, I think finding the right teacher who can explain them in more detail, and give you tools for exploring them would be great. And unlike a book, a teacher can show you how to use them, how they sound, etc. The direction (or directions!) you decide to go in will become clear as you get into it. My 2c RR ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:41:04 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) Good job, Patrick, about alerting eBay and the subsequent removal of BSN from auction. For some reason, I bet Catgirl and possibly other jmdlers jumped in there too! <> Since you're in Stooz often, maybe you could keep us posted if you notice any change in their frequency of (having and) selling of promotional Cd's. Jmdlers also informed Reprise Records and Joni's management of the illegal eBay listing of BSN by Stooz. I think what bugged me most about this was that the bootleg was trying to be sold a full two months before the release date of the Limited Edition. With the way the price skyrocketed, (I bet his eyes popped when he saw the bidding) it could almost be expected people would start burning copies as quick as they could get them out and packaged for sale. Two months of this kind of thing could potentially have a serious impact on Joni's sales. Sure, most of us jmdlers are going to know what's going on and wait for the real thing, both because of simple ethics but also our sincere caring for Joni, but who's to say about the other fans who aren't quite so much in the know. It was mostly in the timing, much more than Joni's loss of royalities during illegal pre-release sales (although that would suck too), that got me riled up. Because she could have been screwed from at least three different ways. Screwed out of royalties before the actual release (who's to say this eBay listing wasn't one of a boatload he had.) Screwed by potentially lower sales numbers when it is released (that all important first week of sales Billboard and others go by). Screwed by probably inferior product (copies of the bootlegs) being scrutinized as the authentic product. It just goes on and on with Reprise and especially Joni, the artist who brought this music into the world for us, getting the short end of the stick....again. I mean it's one thing for Joni to be asking a room full of persons at the LACE exibit, many who have industry ties of some degree, if they've heard the new one, but another thing would be to find out Joe Blow has already got a boot of it. I guess this one touches me already because Joni is clearly so excited about it. Asking everybody if they cried when they heard the new version of A Case Of You and all. Isn't that adorable. ;-) It would break my heart if she got deprived of her just desserts again. Sorry for the rant. Penny :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:53:29 -0800 (PST) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: FW: possible illegal sale item (KMM6919714C0KM) (jc) Whoops, I better clarify. I bet Catgirl and other jmdlers jumped into eBays face to remove the illegal auction. Penny <> :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Grace dies when it becomes us verses them......Philip Yancey ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #291 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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