From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #270 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Sunday, November 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 270 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- The proverbial "what should I buy question" and official de-lurking message ;-) [Nicholas ] Re: art and marketing [MDESTE1@aol.com] Fans and Fanatics [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB [MDESTE1@aol.com] In Jane's Defense [Jim and/or Jay ] Re: absolute joni ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB [catman ] Six Degrees of Zappa [Julian51469@aol.com] Cher and Joni... ["Russell Bowden" ] RE: Being John Malcovich, Eric Rohmer ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: In Jane's Defense [Brian Gross ] Madonna, Cher, Joni [CarltonCT@aol.com] Re: JAZZ TAKES/ Grammys/Hendricks & Ross ["Kakki" ] Re: Cher and Joni... [catman ] RE: In Jane's Defense ["patrick leader" ] Re: Court & Spark on gold CD ["Jim L'Hommedieu" ] Re: fans and fanatics [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: JAZZ TAKES... & the Grammys [SCJoniGuy@aol.com] Coutrt and Spark GOLD CD!!! [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Wumb Top 100 ["rick novosel" ] Chris Botti on SNL [Julie Webb ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:50:01 -0500 From: Nicholas Subject: The proverbial "what should I buy question" and official de-lurking message ;-) Greetings Joniphiles, The subject says it all... I've been lurking for a few days and I thought I'd say hello and ask a Joni-related question. First, the Joni-relevant question... About 3 months ago I picked up Blue on a whim and it's slowly become one of my favorite CD's. I was very impressed with Joni's pared-down acoustic sound, intimate lyrics and unique singing style. Unlike the over-produced music (read: crap) that make it to the radio today, there's something refreshing about both Joni and the album Blue. The album/artist are complex, simple, happy, devastatingly sad, political, silly and serious depending on which track you're listening to. In plain English, I dig it. Big time! :) My favorite track, and perhaps one of my favorite songs by any artist ever is the title cut, "Blue." I fell in love with Sarah McLachlan's cover of it, but once I heard Joni's original version, I knew that I needed to get the CD. So I was wondering which album you suggest I buy next? Joni has such a vast body of work that I'm not sure where to go from here... A little about me... I'm a long-time fan of contemporary folk artists like the Indigo Girls... But, oddly enough, my eclectic 200+ CD collection also includes discs by Bonnie Raitt, Tori Amos (I'm a proud Toriphile), R.E.M., nine inch nails, Loreena McKennitt, Depeche Mode, Joan Osbourne, Annie Lennox, Suzanne Vega, Mary Chapin-Carpenter, Sinead, Sarah McLachlan, Cher, Destiny's Child, the Cranberries, and Radiohead. (the list goes on...) I was unable to find any Usenet Joni groups, so finding your e-mail list was very exciting for me. I'm currently trapped in the chasmatic vortex of graduate school (last semester!!), so I may lurk more than post... but I look forward to reading, contributing and sharing in my enthusiasm for Joni. Best wishes, Nicholas Joniphile in training ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 06:18:57 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: More Garberek coincidence Martin wrote recently:- >>>It's a funny, coincidental kinda world isn't it? I tuned into BBC radio3 in the car on Thursday night and caught the end of something beautiful and bizarre...choral music with a jazz saxophone. It was completely sublime, but unfortunately the announcer garbled her words afterwards, so I didn't find out what it was. This morning I came across a copy of last weeks 'Radio Times' in reception at work. This doesn't happen - we don't get it. But I looked up Radio 3 for the time that I was listening and it listed Jan Garberek & the Hilliard Ensemble. This evening, catching up on my jmdl digest reading, I find that they played on Tuesday at the RAH! And that of all the choices Paul listed, the one that Wally recommends is guess what...??<<< Martin, I had a very similar experience. A friend who lives in Brighton e-mailed to say she had been invited to a Jan Garberek concert but was letting someone else go instead as she thought it would be too "Jazzy" for her. Having never heard the name before, I then downloaded my JMDL posts to find the list full of news about him. I quickly advised my friend to go to the concert but, too late, she'd sold the ticket. If you want to know about anything, ask the JMDL! Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 06:31:50 EST From: Gertus@aol.com Subject: Re: Got it bad(SJC) Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 00:27:30 +0000 From: Rob Jordan Subject: Re: Got it bad (SJC) Rob wrote:- >>>I was listening to my five year old son reading, and he got stuck on the word "Ghost", so, trying to give him a clue, I did this long "WhoooOOOOooo" sound and he came straight back with "Joni Mitchell?". Whole family got it bad here! <<< I love this story, Rob. You're obviously bringing your kids up right! I have to warn you though, when the kids get a bit older, too much Joni obsession will turn them right off as I have learned! Regards Jacky ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 07:39:57 EST From: Kleronomos@aol.com Subject: art and marketing I've enjoyed reading the discussions comparing Joni's work with Madonna's and Cher's. It says something about Joni Mitchell (oh, what the heck! her name is rarely spelled out in this list!) that her fan listers are so insightful and sensitive. (and critical, in the most foundational sense). Certainly, there is room in my heart for both Cher and Madonna, even though Joni is like a treasured first love. I have never bought a recording of either diva (question: is Joni a diva? discuss amongst yourselves!). But surely they have both reached the hearts of many, and mine included, from time to time. It's easy to dismiss Madonna as image over substance, because she does in fact enjoy success partly because of how she's been marketed (the same could be said of Mic Jagger and Howard Stern). She's a "bad girl" and every girl has some part of her that wants to be a bad girl! But beyond marketing, she does indeed have something to sell, IMO, though one might reasonably wonder if she is more admired for her body than for her body of work! I enjoyed seeing Evita... though it never hit the mark it was shooting for, I was grateful for the effort. On the other hand, though she's also partly a product of marketing, I have to adore Cher. She seems like the next-door neighbor (I grew up in Long Island, an ethnic melting pot if there ever was one.) who has won me over with her frank humanity and endearing dramatics (she knows she's over the top!). But although her music was her entree into our conciousness, her acting has established her there.... many memorable performances... a fine actress. My favorite moment is from a more recent flick, "Tea with Mussolini" where the dashing European is dancing with her and asks (at a pregnant pause in the tango) "Are all Americans as exciting as you?" To which she replies, in perfect deadpan, "Alas.......... no!" Joni cannot be dismissed as a product of good merchandising. It could be argued that she has endured despite a hugely deficient marketing plan! Doesn't she seem as though she has bucked the trends (rather than pandering to them) to be herself? And isn't that a reason to admire her all the more? I think so. And yet, at times in interviews, it seems that she resents the success of those who've gone for success. Joni, I wouldn't trade your fan base for Sheryl Crow's in a million years! Playing to the masses has its own reward. I admire those who can capture the attention of the masses, whose art (indeed it is art!) touches the hearts of so many, if not as deeply as your's does. My respect is not grudging for Garth or Sheryl or Madonna. But I like them... they're good friends. But they haven't stirred my heartstrings as you have. Artists whose work will endure long after they are gone have a different reward, don't they? Why are they not recognised in their time, as they should be? Or are they? Dan NP Neil Young Unplugged "Unknown Legend" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:26:13 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: The proverbial "what should I buy question" and official de-lurking messa... Nicholas delurks: << The subject says it all... I've been lurking for a few days and I thought I'd say hello and ask a Joni-related question.>> Welcome Nicholas! You have definitely found the right spot for admiration (not obsessive fanatical worhip ;~) ) of all things Joni... << there's something refreshing about both Joni and the album Blue. The album/artist are complex, simple, happy, devastatingly sad, political, silly and serious depending on which track you're listening to. >> This is a wonderfully honest assessmant of Blue, and one of the constant topics here...the music public has branded Blue as some kind of depressive thing, but as you say, it's Joni at her various bests; songwriting, singing, dulcimer, piano, guitar, and songs that run the gamut of emotions... << So I was wondering which album you suggest I buy next? Joni has such a vast body of work that I'm not sure where to go from here... >> Depends on what your strategy is...you can start with STAS (Song to a Seagull), and move forward chronologically to trace her growth, you can try and see what we collective nuts recommend and tally up the results, or you can just pick 'em up at random...the good news is, you can't lose! Just don't expect them all to be "Blue-like"...Joni dabbles in a bit of everything and does it all extrememly well. Again, welcome, and happy hunting! Take time out from your grad studies to share your thoughts about your Joni finds... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:02:50 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: art and marketing In a message dated 11/20/99 7:37:19 AM US Central Standard Time, Kleronomos@aol.com writes: << Joni cannot be dismissed as a product of good merchandising. It could be argued that she has endured despite a hugely deficient marketing plan! Doesn't she seem as though she has bucked the trends (rather than pandering to them) to be herself? And isn't that a reason to admire her all the more? I think so. And yet, at times in interviews, it seems that she resents the success of those who've gone for success. >> This is true, Dan, she has followed her ARTISTIC muse rather than her COMMERCIAL one, and that is truly reason for admiration. Reflecting on what was being talked about a couple of weeks ago, it may be that Joni, like most of us, refuses to bend to fit into a clique, and subconciously that's something we strongly admire about her...that's why I'm excited about her Standards project, she's not doing it to turn a buck, but rather as an artistic piece...I start foaming at the lips thinking about how gorgeous this will be... << Joni, I wouldn't trade your fan base for Sheryl Crow's in a million years! >> And sure hope you ain't knockin' Sheryl...she's also shown strong growth with every release she's put out...the fact that her interest and the zeitgeist coincide isn't her fault, she's worthy of any and all success that comes her way imo... Well, time to get off this computer and clean this house! Happy weekend everybody! Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:12:54 -0500 From: "Chuck EIsenhardt" Subject: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB WUMB, Boston-area's mostly-acoustic and folk radio station just finished counting down yet another millennial listener-voted top-100 albums list. Joni scored big-time... #77 Hejira #67 Clouds #19 Ladies of the Canyon #9 Court & Spark #1 Blue Joni *finally edged out Cheryl Wheeler's Circles and Arrows for the top spot after bridesmaiding the last three times. Sorry, Ashara! You can check out the whole list at http://www.wumb.org/99top100.html Glad to see Eva Cassidy's Songbird recognized here at #66... Maybe someone who knows for sure could tally up the number of Canadian entries here? Lots... I think of all the worthies mentioned here my next essential purchase is 'Cry, Cry, Cry', a collaboration of Dar Williams, Lucy Kaplansky and Richard Shindell singing mostly songs by other writers. The vocal arrangements are simply beautiful and their voices blend wonderfully. Chuck E ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:29:38 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: art and marketing All I can say about Cher is that the MTV video she did on the Battleship was the single most outrageous music video Ive ever seen. Absolutely preposterously over the top. But FUN. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:53:31 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Fans and Fanatics In a message dated 11/18/1999 3:41:57 PM Pacific Standard Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << One already knows how great One is >> ...and then Marcel Deste wrote: << Better be careful Colin describing God as ONE. After all thats a pretty obvious phallic reference and tends to "lock in" God on the masculine side of things....>> After your wonderful world of possible g/God descriptions I would hope that s/he/it/hey is ALL of the numbers: man, woman, threesome, devil, impotent, bodacious, Yoko and retired folks (BTW, in China the number "4" sounds just like the word for death - in hospitals patients are never put on the fourth floor because of this phenomena)..... But to get to my Joni content... With all of this silliness in mind, let us not forget that Joni is God in disguise. That is, that I think she, like the rest of us, is having a human experience full of confusion, arrogance, insecurity with flashes of brilliance, genius, and insight. For me, the reason why she is so f@#$ing great is that she practices enough in the ways of artists (self/cultural questioning, honesty, storytelling, sacrifice and prayer, you know, all that) that she is ready to capture her insight and unafraid to lay it down and put it out when it is done. By this I mean that we see beauty, find sanctuary, (find God) in her art. I feel that the mistake we make as mortals (and I've been saying this for a while now) is to confuse the messenger with the message. Just because "Joni is God" (according to fanatics) doesn't mean that NSync isn't God to other folks (so long as the listener is finding peace, sanctuary, bliss, etc when they listen to them - then of course, IMO groups like NSync mutate and retard the human spirit into a Ken and Barbie soap opera planet...) Joni is willing to let us into her truth and for many of us it is a place that we call home. (for you English folks: Clapton is God...right?) I s'pose this is note of caution: If yer God is exclusive then It excludes. I want a god more like Joni that includes. Amen, Om, etceterateratera;-) Julian np God Loves a Drunk - Richard Thompson (no foolin' - weird, huh?) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:03:59 EST From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB In a message dated 11/20/1999 6:44:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, chucke@tiac.net writes: << yet another millennial listener-voted top-100 albums list. Joni scored big-time... #77 Hejira #67 Clouds #19 Ladies of the Canyon #9 Court & Spark #1 Blue >> Let me see, unless Im mistaken, four OLD albums one NEWER album. What do the JMDL listers make of THAT one. Hejira at #77 CLOUDS at #67 ????!!!!????. Ahem, the defense rests its case. marcel -ducking behind the sandbags. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:45:54 -0500 From: Jim and/or Jay Subject: In Jane's Defense Hello list. This is my first posting. I've been lurking for a while reading most posts for the past month. Suffice it to say I'm a long time Joni fanatic. My vanity license plate (Massachusetts) reads "HEJIRA". 'Nuf said?? I was at the Joni's Jazz event and wanted to chime in with my Siberry critique. From purusing her web site, she was told the songs she'd sing on May 27th, about a month before the event. Not a lot of time but not a little either. In her defense, she was in the final stages of putting her latest CD's together so her time was crunched. My guess is that only a few of the performers got to practice well with the band beforehand. Jane was not the only one using lyric sheets. I loved the whole event and agree that the electricity in the air was incredible. I've listened to the tape a few times and find that I'm really missing the visuals and the audience energy. Although it's undeniable that Jane flubbed her lines a few times, I was glad that at least her performance made the effort to be inspired. Duncan, p.m. dawn and Eric Anderson basically just read their lines to the musical background. At least Jane played with the harmonies and arrangement of People's Parties to demonstrate an effort at being somewhat creative. (Kudos to Carl Hancock Rux & Dean Bowman for the most inspired performance of the evening IMHO - Jungle Line). Here are 3 paragraphs from Siberia's web site (sheeba.ca) in which a fan asked Jane to comment on what her experience of the concert was. Apologies if this has been posted here previously. "They picked the songs. I wasn't that familiar with that era of her writing. (Court and Spark, Hissing of Summer Lawns, Hejira). I had not listened to her for quite a long time, because when I was starting to write, I felt I was being programmed too strongly and had to break away to hear my own muse. So listening to the songs as I was trying to learn them was strange. Her rhythms, phrasing, sound of her voice running through my head all the time, bringing back memories. And affecting my body, how I walked. Well, I'm not sure but that's how it felt. Joni sitting in the audience. Looking beautiful. Girl tough, easy-going, grit, parties, smoking. Don Freed beside her, intense, elbows on knees. (Don one of Canada's finest documenters of the human condition. Now traveling from small town to small town in northern Saskatchewan. Getting exasperated when the students sit there in his songwriting workshops saying nothing. Then he's about to leave. Then one speaks. That's more like it! he yells. I've heard him yell, too. Would scare the bee-jesus out of you. And then the class takes off and songs are written and sung like no one could but them. A window opens for safety for a few young people.) Raining right up until the concert. But temperature is 90. So rain is sweet. Share trailer with other women. Examine each other's clothes and makeup. Talk about our grandmother's fortés, talents. Ten talents of gold." Yours in JoniLove: D.J. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 12:23:13 -0500 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: absolute joni waytoblu@mindspring.com wrote: > > >Hi everyone, > >I don't mean to sound fanatical, but do you ever go through periods when > you > >think that you don't really need anything else in musical terms apart from > >Joni's? > > I have to say, I have had some periods of time when Joni is all I listen to, and I never feel like I'm missing something. But generally, I would miss David Bowie, the Talking Heads, and yes even Mariah Carey, to name a few. - -Jenny in CT ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:09:36 -0800 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB > WUMB, Boston-area's mostly-acoustic and folk radio station just finished > counting down > yet another millennial listener-voted top-100 albums list. Joni scored > big-time... Not *one* Steeleye Span album on this list??! Ashara, we have to do something about this! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:34:29 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Fans and Fanatics > I s'pose this is note of caution: If yer God is exclusive then It excludes. I > want a god more like Joni that includes. Amen to that. very well put > Amen, Om, etceterateratera;-) > Julian > > np God Loves a Drunk - Richard Thompson (no foolin' - weird, huh?) - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:35:52 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Yet another Top 100 list - WUMB I imagine most of the voters were aged hippies who haven;t followed Joni since 75 because they got lost in a fog. MDESTE1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/20/1999 6:44:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, > chucke@tiac.net writes: > > << yet another millennial listener-voted top-100 albums list. Joni scored > big-time... > > #77 Hejira > #67 Clouds > #19 Ladies of the Canyon > #9 Court & Spark > #1 Blue >> > > Let me see, unless Im mistaken, four OLD albums one NEWER album. What do the > JMDL listers make of THAT one. Hejira at #77 CLOUDS at #67 ????!!!!????. > Ahem, the defense rests its case. marcel -ducking behind the sandbags. - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 11:15:06 -0800 From: Randy Remote Subject: Re: The proverbial "what should I buy question" and officialde-lurking message ;-) I would say that if you liked the simple production values of Blue, try For the Roses, IMO as much the masterpiece if not more. Also the sparser Ladies of the Canyon. These are the albums she did before (LOTC) and after Blue. And welcome to delurkland! RR Nicholas wrote: > > Greetings Joniphiles, > About 3 months ago I picked up Blue on a whim and it's slowly become one of > my favorite CD's. I was very impressed with Joni's pared-down acoustic > sound, intimate lyrics and unique singing style. Unlike the over-produced > music (read: crap) that make it to the radio today, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:20:37 EST From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: In Jane's Defense In a message dated 20/11/99 15:47:33 GMT Standard Time, jimjackson@mediaone.net writes: << In her defense, she was in the final stages of putting her latest CD's together so her time was crunched. My guess is that only a few of the performers got to practice well with the band beforehand. Jane was not the only one using lyric sheets. I loved the whole event and agree that the electricity in the air was incredible. I've listened to the tape a few times and find that I'm really missing the visuals and the audience energy. Although it's undeniable that Jane flubbed her lines a few times, I was glad that at least her performance made the effort to be inspired. Duncan, p.m. dawn and Eric Anderson basically just read their lines to the musical background. At least Jane played with the harmonies and arrangement of People's Parties to demonstrate an effort at being somewhat creative. >> Welcome Jim! Azeem in London here, chiming in my he-would-say-that-wouldn't-he "hear hear" to your comments about Jane. Of course I wasn't there and didn't see the stuff people have written about; but I was genuinely dreading her performances from what I'd read, and my reaction was "well, that wasn't bad at all". Also, although she did play about with the melodies a bit, she certainly did so respectfully (to my ears). As to reading from a lyric sheet, well, I'd rather she did that than forget the words altogether! Azeem NP: Marianne Faithfull's masterpiece Broken English, one of the albums of the 70s. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:42:44 -0000 From: "Tony Wyer" Subject: Music of the Millenium Poll With a week gone by since the fatuous 'music of the millennium poll on the UK television. At which, when asked to sum up at the end of the show, Bob Geldof said, 'It was a load of bollocks' (testicles for those who dont know their Anglo-Saxon), much to the presenters annoyance, but to my approval. Just wish that Joni's name had not made the list as I feel her standing was somewhat sullied by its inclusion. However. The thought passes to ........... What does make a good composer? Ignoring the classics, and only looking at the late 20th century popular music, here are a couple of my own personal guides. Are their songs covered by other artists. Breadth of vocabulary. Original and imaginative music. There are obviously many many more,but would anyone like to shed a few of their guides. regards Tony np Weather Reports 'Young and Fine' Tony's Rough Guide to Skiing La Plagne http://www.wyer.force9.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:09:06 EST From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Six Degrees of Zappa Hello folks, Just a little update. I originally posted that Warren Cucarullo played with Joni and Frank, well there's more... When the Mothers were living and playing in New York in 1967... "Moterhead Sherwood picked up a 'strange girlfriend' (according to Michael Gray's book Mother! is the Story of Frank Zappa, 1985, p. 73.) who also came out west - she turned out to be Joni Mitchell" And then... Joni is mentioned again on the Mother's album Just Another Band from L.A. during the description of where the hero Studebacher Hoch comes from, "...he was born next to the frozen beef pies, underneath Joni Mitchells autographed picture, right next to Eliot Roberts big bank book, next to the boat where Crosby flushed away all his stash..." Who knows...next we'll find out that Joni and Frank made and album together...let's not go there quite yet, shall we? Julian ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 13:13:54 PST From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Cher and Joni... Happy Saturday, Joni Devo-Taze, I can finally delurk from the Shadowlands of Cher Appreciation... I always thought if "Thelma and Louise" had starred Joni and Cher...Cher as Sarandon and Joni as Davis......(fab casting twist, no?).....it could have been a milestone in ....something?....Indeed!! While we are on the Gypsy/Tramp/Thief Godess thang.....she was wonderful in the recent "Tea With Mussolini" with ...get this....Maggie Smith, Judi Dench, Lily Tomlin and Joan Plowright....a very good role....Check it out.... She also appeared in the Broadway play of Jimmy Dean squared. Her early roles in anti-drug films aimed at young people (from the '60's) with the ex-late M. Bono...Groovy, baby!!! Joni all the time Issue. I sometimes find myself taking up to a week off from our Queen. I mean, it's like; how long can one stare into the sun without being blinded and amazed???? My audio units just can't be filled with that much.....je ne sais WHAT? Sorry about the ramble.......If I could only have ONE Joni on a deserted star-system...I guess it would be DJRD, H, TI,B, FTR, CS, etal. Sunny in Oregon!!!! Love, Russ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:47:34 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Being John Malcovich, Eric Rohmer mariana!!!! another fan from argentina! [beat that folks!] mariana i'm in buenos aires, write me privately, maybe we can organize the first argentine jonifest ever. as to rohmer's autumn tale, you beat me! i was just about to write about it. rohmer is god. wallyk > Hi everyone, > > I'm Mariana from La Plata, Argentina. I've just subscribed to the list. > > Julie, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 18:28:50 EST From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: JAZZ TAKES... & the Grammys An update on my own understanding of the process: only voting members of NARAS receive ballots; this ballot determines the GRAMMY NOMINEES. The listings for JAZZ TAKES...were: FIELD 9, CATEGORY 42 Lew Tabackin as a soloist on Blue Motel Room and Solid Love Randy Brecker as a soloist on Edith... Thomas Chapin as a soloist on Shadows and Light and ...Sharon (I don't understand this entirely, as the solost on ...Sharon was really David Friedman) FIELD 9, CATEGORY 43 ("group instrumental performance") DL for the CD as a whole FIELD 21, CATEGORY 75 (''jazz arranging") DL for Blue Motel Room and Edith... It's a long shot, but I'm having fun hoping. DL, glad that Mark in Seattle is enthused about the Jon Hendricks/George Russell NEW YORK, NEW YORK CD. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 15:38:44 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Cher and Joni... Russell wrote: > I always thought if "Thelma and Louise" had starred Joni and Cher...Cher as > Sarandon and Joni as Davis......(fab casting twist, no?).....it could have > been a milestone in ....something?....Indeed!! I was watching yet another VH-1 story about Cher the other night and there was talk about how her rising film career got cut a little short when she was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue/Epstein-Barr Syndrome in the late 1980s. She was offered a role in Thelma and Louise along with some other top films and had to turn them down because of her illness. > Her early roles in anti-drug films aimed at young people (from the '60's) with the > ex-late M. Bono...Groovy, baby!!! Wow, now this is really a blast from the past! I actually saw one of those Sonny and Cher anti-drug films in 8th grade in the school auditorium! I actually used to look forward to viewing the various anti-drug flicks because they were so funky - like B-movie film noir ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:04:34 -0800 (PST) From: Brian Gross Subject: Re: In Jane's Defense - --- AzeemAK@aol.com wrote: > Azeem in London here, chiming in my > he-would-say-that-wouldn't-he "hear hear" to your comments about Jane. Of > course I wasn't there and didn't see the stuff people have written about; but > I was genuinely dreading her performances from what I'd read, and my reaction > was "well, that wasn't bad at all". Also, although she did play about with > the melodies a bit, she certainly did so respectfully (to my ears). As to > reading from a lyric sheet, well, I'd rather she did that than forget the > words altogether! Hi gang, First, welcome to all the new jmdlers and the delurkers. Second, I was at Joni's Jazz. And IMHO (and I stress that this is just my own personal opinion) but Jane's performance that night really sucked. After all the hype here on the list about Jane prior to that evening, I was really expecting a songstress extraordiniare. What I got was a totally unprepared half-hearted performance. And no desire to run out and buy anything of hers. On the whole, though, the evening was wonderful. Especially our very own John Kelly and also Erin Hamilton. Later, Brian np: Marian at Atty May's ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 19:36:41 EST From: CarltonCT@aol.com Subject: Madonna, Cher, Joni Cher is one of those actresses where I like the movie, no matter how bad it is, because she is in it. She's just so likable and she gives a hundred per cent of herself. I have never bought and will never buy a Cher record. Her most interesting and curious period was in the Seventies in which she had a weird string of hits that all told little stories and were often about the trials of being an "other": A Half-breed Indian, A Gypsy, A Dark Lady. This was the same period in American pop music in which narratives were popular: Cat's in the Cradle, Me and You and A Dog Named Boo, Signs Signs Everywhere are Signs. If you ask me those were dark days on the AM dial. After seeing Madonna's Ray of Light following a lot of lister's NP, I finally broke down and bought this disc. It's incredible! And yes, some credit has to be given to Madonna. As lyrics go, she's no Joni and never will be. And as a singer, she's pretty so-so -- no range, not much nuance, not much coloring. But she's the best ever on this disc and the songs are surprisingly rich and somewhat in a Joni mode, very confessional, honest. One thing the two of them have in common is that they are both very driven women and their ambitions and achievements have made it difficult for them to find and keep men of equal stature. Madonna has also gone the way of Annie Lennox by writing songs which could be interpreted as being about a new lover, but are actually about her daughter and the joys and connection of motherhood. Madonna has to be credited for picking who she collaborates with and the arrangements on Ray of Light are gorgeous and imaginative. And you can dance to it. One cut, SWIM, borrows very heavily from Brian Wilson's FEEL FLOWS, a Beach Boy's song from their late psychedelic period when Wilson's genius was in full bloom and the songs about girls, fast cars and surfing were far behind them. At the time Brian was making strange, obscure water music with stream of consciousness lyrics. SWIM borrows the background keyboards from FEEL FLOWS and has the same liquid, mystical quality. I resist Madonna on a personal level, but she keeps us all fascinated. I knew a guy with an MBA who said that Business majors loved Madonna because they knew she was all about marketing. What I do appreciate about her is her honesty about that -- I saw her give an interview where she said "I just had to be a star". And she is one, one of the biggest despite her lack of real talent or genuine beauty. However she managed it, she made a very respectable album which deserves a listen and will remain in my Walkman for workouts on the Stairmaster for at least the next month. - - Clark NP: Beck, Mutations. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:40:40 -0800 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: JAZZ TAKES/ Grammys/Hendricks & Ross DL wrote: > It's a long shot, but I'm having fun hoping. Wow, a possilibility of 5 nominations! This is so exciting. I hope we will all be a collective cheer for you at Grammy time! > DL, glad that Mark in Seattle is enthused about the Jon Hendricks/George > Russell NEW YORK, NEW YORK CD. Not only did I get to enjoy reading Mark's wonderful review of Hendricks and Ross last week but also received a compilation tape of them from Mark yesterday and I'm just blown away. It's is absolutely fantabulous! This is some of the best stuff I've heard coming from the 40s-50s and so much of the music is reminiscent of artists who came along much later. I hear a little bit of Manhattan Transfer, The Chordettes (Mr. Sandman), Dan Hicks and his Hot Licks, Brian Wilson, both early beatnik and surfer music melodies, a tinge of Brazilian, and John Lee Hooker here and there in the music! No wonder Joni cites them in her top 10 - they were also obviously a bit ahead of their time and very original. ALso included in the compilation is L, H& R's "Twisted", "Centerpiece" and "Summertime". Sheesh, I think we should tree this stuff, it's so good! Kakki NP: Lambert, Hendricks & Ross - "be bop shoo boo de da de da do wah" then moving into Annie doing "Love For Sale" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 00:43:18 +0000 From: catman Subject: Re: Cher and Joni... Okay so I guess with most you being Americans you kight well shoot me for saying this but if I have one negative thing to say about Cher it is her promoting plastic surgery and her buying into women not being good enough as they are. Although i can understand the need for pa,stic surgery in cases of injury, burns or some such thing, the idea of risking one's life just to have a great nose or good tits or a tight bum is beyond me. I don't think in that respect she has been good role model. Self acceptence is the thing to promote. To me it taints her position as being her own woman and liberated. If so why is does she pander to the 'rules' and do all this to herself? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 20:08:27 -0500 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: In Jane's Defense hi, ><< From listening to > Patrick's collection of Sib music which he so generously gave me, >I can see > that her music is very theatrical...BUT it's also my opinion that she's a >TON > better in the studio than she is live...in concert her backup singers are > blowing her away! >> just thought i'd clarify, for all the janesters, etc. on list. what i sent bob is a tape that includes most of 'lips' (one third of the triple live cd jane has just released) except for the long spoken word parts (he says, she says; mimi speaks). the rest of that concert is just so funky; jane channelled 'average white band' there; i thought bob would get off on it. but jane does give the other singers lots of room to shine, rebecca campbell and gail ann dorsey in particular. i love the breadth they gave to the concert (i saw one of the shows). i suppose they do outdo jane in pure lung power; they'd outsing joni just as easily if that were all that mattered. it's not. i'm glad bob has described jane as 'theatrical'; i hope he's tuning into her particular brand of storytelling. i included 'grace hospital'; i think that it's an amazing achievement in songwriting and an amazing vocal performance. the song is a nine minute interior monologue of a terminal cancer patient on the seventh floor ward, walking to the end of the hall again and again to sneak a smoke. seen at the window through the rain by some poor s.o.b. stuck in traffic and life. this song never fails to make me cry. i can't think of another song like it in joni's (or anyone else's) output. the rest of bob's tape includes three or four songs each from 'maria', 'bound by the beauty' and 'when i was a boy', a few extras in there. i think i done well. i'm still surprised by the level of hostility to jane's performances in joni's jazz. i'm dubbing yet another set. her 'people's parties' still disappoints me, but i think jane's performance of 'strange boy' is just stellar. bob vented, a couple of days ago: >she doesn't care about the lyrics, she doesn't care about the melodies, well she sang the lyrics just fine in 'strange boy' the only change was skateboard to surfboard, and i love that change. and listening to it tonight, i thought she really caught subtleties in the melody. she only went off when she wanted to accentuate the lyric. this is why she went wild on 'stiff-blue-haired-house-rules' (when she said, 'could anyone else write a lyric like...) you said she doesn't care. noone, i mean noone in this concert expressed her respect for the lyrics more deeply. as for not respecting the melody. you've been praising pm dawn (and i like his performances, mostly) but he doesn't sing the melodies at all. at all. especially on 'sharon'. seems a double standard, here. anyway, bob, i hope you keep on giving the jane tape, cussing included, your best 'music-slut' attention. i love every moment on it. patrick, seeing jane siberry at the bottom line on december 4th, with several jmdlers, and completely psyched! np - annie ross - jon hendricks - twisted > > >Whooaaaa! Steady on there old chap! If you get a chance to go >and see her >on her current tour, you'll see and hear what a magical performer she is. >Her most recent release is a live trilogy, which spans a breadth of styles >which NO ONE else could handle. I certainly accept that nobody >listening to >her on Joni's Jazz would suspect any of this, but please don't assume (if >that is what you are doing) that she generally doesn't cut it live. > >Azeem, thinking it's about time he got down off his Sib soapbox... >NP: The fabulously funky Lewis Taylor, funkier than Funky the Funkster's >extra-funky Funk Thang. Imagine a cross between Marvin Gaye, the Average >White Band and Todd Rundgren > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:32:24 -0500 From: "Jim L'Hommedieu" Subject: Re: Court & Spark on gold CD To whom ever wanted to buy Court and Spark on gold CD, I recommend these guys: Acoustic Sounds P.O. Box 1905 * 1000 West Elm Street Salina, KS 67402-1905 USA phone 1-800-716-3553 phone: (785) 825-8609 email: asounds@acousticsounds.com web: http://www.acousticsounds.com - -- All the best, Jim L'Hommedieu ** Get well Wally! ** Tolerance, tolerance, tol... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:58:36 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: fans and fanatics In a message dated 11/18/1999 6:41:57 PM Eastern Standard Time, catman@ethericcats.demon.co.uk writes: << Oh I don't think you are the only one who recognizes that Joni is just a person with the same value as any other person. I think 'One' doesn't need or care about our worship. One already knows how great One is. I think One would be more interested in our 'worshipping' of eachother i.e seeing the value of each of us instead of the way things are at present. > I wonder how a celeb (and > particularly Joni) feels, knowing that they are flesh and blood, about the > worship they sometimes receive. I would imagine they think it is sad or odd or wonderful or deserved, depending on their own level of awareness. bw colin >> GREAT POST Colin!! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 22:27:25 EST From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com Subject: Re: JAZZ TAKES... & the Grammys In a message dated 11/20/99 5:31:44 PM US Central Standard Time, Dflahm@aol.com writes: << FIELD 9, CATEGORY 43 ("group instrumental performance") DL for the CD as a whole >> David, this would seem to be a special honor, even to get the nomination... Bob ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 22:35:09 EST From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Coutrt and Spark GOLD CD!!! Whoever was looking for the Joni CAS CD on gold it is on ebay right now and the curent bid is only $5.00!!! US A Money~! eB ay item 204323655 (Ends 11/27/99, 10:23:58 PST) - Joni Mitchell-Court And Spark CD GOLD DISC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:05:12 -0800 From: "rick novosel" Subject: Re: Wumb Top 100 > I imagine most of the voters were aged hippies who haven;t followed Joni since > 75 because they got lost in a fog. Okay ,Catman, them's fightin' words! Perhaps the reason that the older recordings did better than the newer is that they could actually be considered "folk" albums and the station is largely a "folk" station, n'est-ce pas? But honestly, I've never thought of C&S as folk and I would never rate it anywhere near Hejira. The other day, in one of the rare moments when the fog cleared from my brain, I thought, "Okay, I have to chose one Joni album to take to a desert isle, which will it be?" The final choice came down to a showdown between STAS, Blue, and Hejira. In the end I had to chose STAS. I was eighteen, I was a romantic (hey, I guess I still am) and I know that I will always have a need to be able to listen the song Song to a Seagull. I guess it just cuts right through the fog. All the best, Rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 21:59:20 -0500 From: Julie Webb Subject: Chris Botti on SNL Sting was the guest tonight on SNL. He was accompanied by our new favorite jazzman, Chris Botti, known here on the jmdl as Joni's 'wind section.' Did anyone notice that the SNL's director gave Botti and Sting an equal share of camera close-ups? For the second set Sting shared the stage with what seemed to be several Turkish musicians and a vocalist who sang a duet (in Turkish?) while Sting sang a love song of some kind. That late in the program, I started to drift off then suddenly perked up hearing the exotic sounds made blending the music of these two----kinda like a rich dark Turkish Espresso meets a little Earl Gray with attitude while this handsome Botti-icelli-guy kept things percolating. So Joni. -JulieZWebb ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #270 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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