From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest)
To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org
Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #245
Reply-To: joni@smoe.org
Sender: les@jmdl.com
Errors-To: les@jmdl.com
Precedence: bulk
onlyJMDL Digest Saturday, October 30 1999 Volume 01 : Number 245
The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at
http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio,
original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more.
-------
The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains
interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more.
==========
TOPICS and authors in this Digest:
--------
Re: Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...) ["Patricia O'Connor"
]
RE: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni [Anne Sandstrom ]
Re : How much, how often? [Jason Maloney ]
Eric Anderson [Steve Dulson ]
Re: Tar Baby [MHart16164@aol.com]
Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder [AzeemAK@aol.com]
$10 off $10 at Barnes & Nobel (Joni Books & Music) [mann@chicagonet.net]
Re: Re : How much, how often? [Ginamu@aol.com]
Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder [SCJoniGuy@aol.com]
Re: Re : How much, how often? [Jason Maloney ]
Jonatha's Influences: Joni and RLJ (VLJC) [TerryM2442@aol.com]
Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [CaTGirl627@aol.com]
Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [CaTGirl627@aol.com]
Re: This Just in... [CaTGirl627@aol.com]
Cree Louise (HOSL Demo) ["Eric Taylor" ]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:38:11 -0400
From: "Patricia O'Connor"
Subject: Re: Tar Babie Babble (as in Tower of...)
Julian wrote:
> Has anyone mentioned that
>DJRD came out at a time when people weren't so worried about political
>correctness, not to mention the evolution of a word or slang terminology?
>These gems like "tar baby" litterally and figuratively get stuck in gooey
>dark syntax and cultural taboos. I really appreciate Debra (Kedabra)'s
"all
>sides now" response....because I feel that's the time we are living in.
The term "politically correct" hadn't yet been coined when DJRD was
released, however that's not to say that one didn't recognize a racial slur
when one met one in a dark alley, or in a crowded bar, or on a record album,
or when one ran head-first into the slur-maker. We didn't call it
politically incorrect, we called it racist.
Semitics as you all know, are Arabs too.
POC
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:10:47 -0400
From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com
Subject: Re: lindsay's miracle ear...
Ric reminisces:
<>
Yes, I recall it everytime I hear "Facelift" Ric...sometimes I even sing it that
way to give myself a smile.
But I'm not about to sing anything about bending over, especially in THIS crowd!
:~D
Bob
NP: "Come In From The Cold"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:05:57 +0100
From: Jamie Zubairi
Subject: Rock Masterclass
Dear Listers
Has anyone got a superb copy of the DED rock Masterclass that has been
discussed in the past couple of days? Email me privately if you have. I
believe it's the one with DED done acoustically.
Jamie Zubairi
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:17:26 -0400
From: Anne Sandstrom
Subject: RE: Heart /Sandra/Stormy Weather/Joni
Maurice said: < performance on S.W. CD
> has been played less by me than the other cuts on the CD>>
Actually, I play everything EXCEPT Sandra Bernhardt's cut from SW. Why oh
why is it in the MIDDLE??? :-)
Anne
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:35:30 -0400
From: "Jennifer L. Nodine"
Subject: [Fwd: Re: how much, how often?]
Message-ID: <3819A25D.168E@snet.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:34:21 -0400
From: "Jennifer L. Nodine"
Reply-To: jlhall01@snet.net
Organization: The Mortgage Finance Corp.
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SNET (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: catman
Subject: Re: how much, how often?
References: <38188A03.5BD8292F@ethericcats.demon.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I try to at least twice a week. I can't listen to her when my husband
is home because he loathes her music. So on Saturdays when I'm cleaning
house and sometimes when he's working late. I WISH I HAD A CD PLAYER IN
MY CAR or I'd always listen there...maybe I should take up a
collection! Any sympathy out there? ;-)
- -Jenny from CT
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:35:57 +0100
From: Jason Maloney
Subject: Re : How much, how often?
I've really enjoyed the responses to my orginal ruminations/queries.
Rather than reply individually to some of the comments/confessions
revealed in each one, I think I'll tackle them as a whole. Otherwise,
they'd be 10 separate postings from me at once, and nobody deserves that
;-)
Eric and Gina remark on how it's the emotinal and intellectual substance
of Joni's work that is the primary "hook", moreso than any "trivia"
knowledge gained. I totally agree. While there is an amazing amount of
knowledge displayed on this list, I didn't mean to imply that it was all
trivia, far from it. I was thinking more of how deep-rooted the
knowledge must be (both emotionally and intellectually), that when any
particular thread crops up, the wealth of thoughts, opinions and related
experiences shared by everyone on here are expressed so eloquently and
with such a keen eye for detail and nuance. I wondered by what means
each person here manages to arrive at such a point.
I figured that the lengthy timespan covered by Joni's recorded work, and
therefore the number of potential years for exposure, has probably
played a significant part. Many of you have also gained a very personal
insight and relationship to her songs through performing them
yourselves. Even so, it occurred to me that most of you must still
listen to (and be inspired/stimulated by) Joni's music on a very regular
basis. From those who have so far posted on this topic, it seems that is
largely true.
Eric is a semi-daily case.....while Catherine slips some in whenever
time permits each day, it appears ;-D Gina, meanwhile, is another
"almost-daily" Joniphile. Anne and Jimmy too. Colin also has at least a
couple of Joni CDs always on hand. Angela freaked me out when she
revealed only three of her entire collection are non-Joni :-) Bob,
though, King Music Slut that he is, throws in as much of everything
(including Joni) as anyone within earshot can humanly tolerate
Heaven forbid you ever have those headphones taken away, Bob! Susan is
probably the only person among the 10 who doesn't listen to Joni "all
that much", but it's clear that she is very much "under the influence"
almost daily :-)
Apologies for the "third-person" referencing....I hope nobody is
offended, but I don't know how to cut-and-paste quotes from ten
different people! :-)
Obviously, the nature and depth of anyone's love and appreciation of
Joni is not directly linked to the amount or regularity of plays given
to her music. If it were, I'd probably be at the bottom of any
"Frequency of Joni listening" polls.
I admit I have rather odd listening habits, in that I don't play CDs
over and over again. Ten years ago, I listened to a lot more music, more
often....my favourite albums would be played maybe 20 or 30 times in
their first 12 months. Nowadays, it's nearer 6 or 7. I have no doubt
that it's largely a side-effect of my ill-health and resulting
brain-inflammation, as well as a symptom of relying on music as my main
source of entertainment for the last 13 years. Because of my illness, I
find it impossible to have music playing while I do something else, and
am even unable to have any playing while I rest or drift off to sleep. I
listen to any music that I play, either reclining in a chair or lying
down. In both cases I invariably have my eyes closed or covered with a
sleep-mask. Music, for me, is more like a "fuel" for my brain,
cancelling out the over-stimulation and mental exhaustion/foggyness that
lowers my ability to function as a human being. What I listen to, and
how often, is very carefully considered. Because I love so many
different artists and genres, and I listen to so little music in a day
(maybe 90 minutes, but usually nearer to 60), the opportunity to
repeatedly play a certain CD is limited. Lately, I have taken to making
compilation tapes of my current favourite tracks on a regular basis, or
sometimes just listening to a selection of songs without actually
comitting them to tape. I find it less "tiresome" than struggling
through a 75-minute CD. I seldom listen to an album in one go....though
if it's under 45 minutes, I may be able to. At the moment, I don't seem
to last longer than about 4 or 5 songs before the restlesness creeps in.
So, in other words, I have slowly but surely become "weary" of exposing
myself to endless bouts of music, and chaning my listening habits has
been the only way to keep my love and enjoyment of the music I play at a
satisfactory level.
New alternatives to listening to music have become available to me in
the last year, as my condition has improved just enough to take in
computers, TV and films. That's another reason why I listen to less
music now. After 10 years of all-music and nothing else, my brain is
telling me "you've got all these other things you can do now...why keep
laying down to listen to a 50 minute album, when you can write e-mails,
play games or watch a movie?". Music is still a vital component in my
daily life - it balances my brain-inflammation so that I can tackle
something else - but I now only "stop for gas" when absolutely
necessary.
I occasionally "fantasise" about getting all my Joni CDs out from the CD
drawers, spreading them out on the floor, and immersing myself in
Joniland for hours while the CDs play one after the other as I study the
view in front of me of all the artwork side by side. It's a nice dream
:-)
For me, Joni is one of the very few artists who I feel a need to have
their entire catalogue of work. All I'm missing now are the live albums,
and I'm sure that in time they will join the 18 CDs I already own. I may
not play them too often, but I'm pretty sure that on average I listen to
more Joni than any other artist in my collection. It must be wonderful
to have such a deep-rooted relationship with her work, and one borne of
so many experiences and emotions. Of course, her music and lyrics do
inspire a whole range of things in me too, as they surely do in
everyone, but I often find myself marvelling at the far-reaching bond so
many of you have with Joni's work. My appreciation has certainly been
enriched to a very significant degree just by being part of the JMDL.
Until I joined, I was someone who adored her DED-onwards releases, and
found great comfort, inspiration and stimulation in them, but I hadn't
felt a great desire to go back in time and investigate the earlier
albums. They were from another time and dimension, as I saw it, and as I
had not really lived through those times (although I was born the month
Blue was released) I felt little connection with them. That all changed
after spending a few months on this list, and reading all the posts. Now
Hejira is among my Top 10 albums of all-time, and has more resonance and
potency than most current music IMO.
Well, I have rambled far too much! :-)
Thanks for listening (if you haven't already deleted!)
Jason.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 08:15:44 -0700
From: Steve Dulson
Subject: Eric Anderson
Bob wrote:
>Eric, on the other hand, is like my dear old Dad, the poor guy just has no
>>sense of key, pitch or rhythm, at least not evidenced in his performances
>here. >I don't think months of rehearsals would've helped him
I havn't heard the Joni's Jazz tapes, so I can't comment on Eric's
performance there. However, I would urge those like Bob who are
unfamiliar with his work not to dismiss him based on this show.
Two of his songs, Thirsty Boots and Violets of Dawn, are true classics
of the folk scare. His album Blue River (with Joni singing backup...
hmmm, that's the first time I made the connection between Blue River
and Blue, which was originally going to be called River) is well worth
checking out, and based on his performance at the '93 Troubadours of
Folk show (which Joni headlined) he still had his chops and was
writing very good material.
NP - Paul Castle - "Louise (Kick off your dancing shoes)"
#########################################################
Steve Dulson Costa Mesa CA steve@psitech.com
"The Tinker's Own"
http://www.tinkersown.com
"Southern California Dulcimer Heritage"
http://members.aol.com/scdulcimer/
"The Living Tradition Concert Series"
http://www.thelivingtradition.org/
(Website under construction!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:07:31 EDT
From: MHart16164@aol.com
Subject: Re: Tar Baby
In a message dated 99-10-26 15:56:56 EDT, you write:
<< Patricia said:
>Tar Baby is slang for a black person, IMO an impolite and racist >term.
>>
There is a story (and I'm not sure who wrote it--Uncle tom's cabin) about a
tar baby. The tar baby gets beat but the agressor gets stuck in all the tar.
- -michele
Normally lurking in Louisiana
NP: Earth wind and Fire-Greatest Hits
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:44:29 EDT
From: AzeemAK@aol.com
Subject: Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder
In a message dated 27/10/99 15:42:39 GMT Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com
writes:
<< It's great to sing, but the rhymes are kind of suspect, he rhymes
Mississippi with Pretty, Dirty with Early, >>
Well, I have a different take on half-rhymes. I think they can be very
effective, and that their use can be a conscious lyrical device, and not
simply the closest the writer could get. A superb example of this is the
Squeeze song Up The Junction, which is stuffed full of half rhymes, for
example
I never thought it would happen
With me and a girl from Clapham
Out on the windy common
That night I ain't forgotten
The whole song is like that. Obviously, we can't know the process behind the
writing of Stevie's lyrics, but I'm prepared to believe he knew what he was
doing! After all, there are half-rhymes all over the blessed (rightly)
Hejira are there not?? The very first couplet of the album
(circumstance/ranch), loads in Song for Sharon. Some of the most arresting
couplets on the whole album are half-rhymes, for example
I can keep my head at poker but I'm a fool when love's at stake
Because I can't conceal emotion - whatever I'm feeling's written on my face
It doesn't scan either! :-)
I think Stevie is a true genius and a great songwriter, and I agree with
whomever it was who said that his purple patch in the 70s was virtually
unrivalled - and I also love Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. And
here's a question: did that film actually get a cinematic release - and has
anyone here seen it??
Azeem
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:49:02 -0500
From: mann@chicagonet.net
Subject: $10 off $10 at Barnes & Nobel (Joni Books & Music)
Hi All,
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Have fun!
Laura
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:16:23 EDT
From: Ginamu@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re : How much, how often?
In a message dated 10/29/1999 12:37:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jason.maloney@virgin.net writes:
<< Well, I have rambled far too much! :-)
Thanks for listening (if you haven't already deleted!)
Jason.
>>
First a personal note to Jason:I enjoyed every word. Thanks for such a
sensitive and nicely written post. It's always great when a list members
sends out an invitation for responses, receives them, considers them and then
formulates a thoughtful post with their reactions. I really enjoyed this
thread. And as an aside, Jason, where were you when I needed help defending
SuzyV on the JMDL? I wimped out without you! I'm assuming that we both feel
she doesn't need defending, yes? ; }
While it's true I play Joni almost daily to some extent, I also play a wide
variety of other people's music a great deal at work and at home too,
particularly while doing work around the house, preparing dinner or just
puttering. But with Joni, I prefer to be alone while listening to her ( uh
oh... in terms of addiction, is this anything like an alcoholic preferring to
drink alone? ) ; } I can't concentrate well on anything else when I
play Joni, so I tend to have an all or nothing sort of inclination toward her
work. Either I give her music my full concentration or I just have it on as
background music. With other artists, I can usually listen with half and ear
and still keep up my pace at work. Ringing phone, reports to write, people in
and out of my office, kids clamoring for my attention and I can still tune
in. My listening time with Joni is almost sacred to me and if I listen to her
at work and the phone rings, I feel like saying something such as "Can't talk
now, I'm listening with new ears to Boho Dance (thanks to a JMDL thread)
Gotta go!" Or saying to someone walking into my office "Can't you see I'm
absorbed in Amelia like it was the first time I heard it??? Please leave." :
} Such is my life with Joni and thus the reason for my bedtime and commute
listening rituals reserved mostly for her music. That's why my NPs are often
*not* Joni. This is such a brilliant and dynamic list that it requires my
full attention and because any kind of coherent post from me requires a great
deal of effort, that usually means no Joni with my JMDL time. Kind of odd
that the JMDL and Joni should sort of be mutually exclusive, but that's
genuinely how it works for me.
Have a great weekend everyone!
Gina
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 18:40:05 EDT
From: SCJoniGuy@aol.com
Subject: Re: SJC: Stevie Wonder
In a message dated 10/29/99 4:27:01 PM US Central Standard Time,
AzeemAK@aol.com writes:
<< I think Stevie is a true genius and a great songwriter, and I agree with
whomever it was who said that his purple patch in the 70s was virtually
unrivalled - and I also love Journey Through the Secret Life of Plants. And
here's a question: did that film actually get a cinematic release - and has
anyone here seen it?? >>
Azeem, I was the one who commented about his amazing streak in the
70's...broken imo with "Plants", which I bought, of course, and just barely
found enough decent stuff on it to put on half of a 90 minute tape (it was a
double LP). I think the soundtrack was to a TV film and not a cinematic one,
but I could be wrong.
Bob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:32:55 +0100
From: Jason Maloney
Subject: Re: Re : How much, how often?
Ginamu@aol.com wrote:
> First a personal note to Jason: I enjoyed every word. Thanks for such a
> sensitive and nicely written post. It's always great when a list members
> sends out an invitation for responses, receives them, considers them and then
> formulates a thoughtful post with their reactions. I really enjoyed this
> thread.
I am glad I decided to write that post. I've had such a wonderfully positive
response from so many people, and I am genuinely thankful to you all. There are
many times I wish I could be a more active participant in the discussions, but
it's not often I can summon the energy to do so. My post this afternoon took me a
couple of hours to write, but I felt I needed to share my thoughts with you all
for a change. Mostly, I never get past the stage of thinking them, and leaving it
at that.
> And as an aside, Jason, where were you when I needed help defending
> SuzyV on the JMDL? I wimped out without you! I'm assuming that we both feel
> she doesn't need defending, yes? ; }
Oops...hahahaha. Sorry Gina! Well, I was sorely tempted to weigh in. SV is the
only artist besides Joni who I feel has made consistenly outstanding music. There
is not one SV track from her 5 albums which is below-par. Actually, I seem to
recall sending a post in to the list at the time, no? Perhaps I forgot to send
it....I can be absent-minded like that during chaotic times.
> While it's true I play Joni almost daily to some extent, I also play a wide
> variety of other people's music a great deal at work and at home too,
> particularly while doing work around the house, preparing dinner or just
> puttering. But with Joni, I prefer to be alone while listening to her ( uh
> oh... in terms of addiction, is this anything like an alcoholic preferring to
> drink alone? ) ; } I can't concentrate well on anything else when I
> play Joni, so I tend to have an all or nothing sort of inclination toward her
> work. Either I give her music my full concentration or I just have it on as
> background music.
Oh, I hear you on this! I am like that with ALL the music I listen to, though. I
sometimes wonder if it would be easier on me if I was more "easy-going" in this
respect, but then again it means I really do savour what little music I listen
to. I don't listen to the radio either, so everything I hear is due to a
conscious desire to on my part.
> This is such a brilliant and dynamic list that it requires my full attention
> and because any kind of coherent post from me requires a great
> deal of effort, that usually means no Joni with my JMDL time. Kind of odd
> that the JMDL and Joni should sort of be mutually exclusive, but that's
> genuinely how it works for me.
Again, I can fully identify with what you are saying. That's why you'll probably
find me posting in fits and starts. I'll get on a roll, and find the necessarly
mental energy and coherence to put my thoughts into words, and it will last for a
few days. Then it disappears again for a while, and so do I ;-)
> Have a great weekend everyone!
And you too, Gina..!!
Best wishes,
Jason.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:03:55 EDT
From: TerryM2442@aol.com
Subject: Jonatha's Influences: Joni and RLJ (VLJC)
Indulge me and my Jonatha-obsessed 14 yr. old. She sent me this bio she found
on Yahoo and I thought I'd pass it on. Some Joni content. Ok, just a tiny bit.
Terry
*Brooke, Jonatha
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
Discography - Biography
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Biography
b. Boston, Massachusetts, USA. Initially recording with the Story,
singer-songwriter Jonatha Brooke has earned several comparisons with Rickie
Lee Jones for her work in the 90s. Trained as a ballet dancer, she first
played rock music as a 13-year-old bassist with a local rock band called
Science Function, which included her biology teacher. However, her first
experience of Joni Mitchell, whose unusual tunings and textures have become
an abiding influence, changed her musical reference points. She became
entranced by Rickie Lee Jones after interviewing her for the US magazine
Performing Songwriter. The Story were effectively a duo of Brooke with
associate Jennifer Kimball, a creative partnership that spanned 12 years.
After two albums with the Story, Kimball departed, in the same week that the
group were dropped by Elektra Records despite sales of over 100,000 for The
Angel In The House and a favourable critical reception. Brooke eventually
found a sympathetic ear in Tommy LiPuma who had originally signed the Story
to Elektra and recently established Blue Thumb Records. Brooke relegated the
Story's name to that of support billing for 1996's Plumb, produced by her
husband, the jazz pianist Alain Mallet. Among the songs were 'Where Were
You?', a bitter and autobiographical indictment of the treatment of artists
by record companies. Certainly there were fewer of the metaphysical
references to mermaids and angels observed on The Angel In The House, Brooke
opting instead for narratives dealing frankly with loneliness and despair.
The backing band featured long-standing the Story collaborators Michael
Rivard (bass) and Duke Levine (guitar) as well as drummer Abe Laboriel. A
wide-ranging collection, Plumb included such diverse selections as the Irish
jig 'Charming' (with uillean piper Jerry O'Sullivan) and the despondent 'The
War' (a duet with Bruce Cockburn ).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:14:35 EDT
From: CaTGirl627@aol.com
Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords)
In a message dated 10/27/1999 8:23:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
haw@ph.ed.ac.uk writes:
<< Just to summarise:
pat's chords are no doubt fine for playing the version of Urge that Joni
showed him, but to play the *recorded* version, you need different chords.
The ones from the Hits songbook or the ones on the jmdl site are fine for
this.
Howard
>>
THIS is very interesting since I have been working on this song to perform
live. I am just going touse the chords that are in the HITS songbook. They
work very well and sound wonderful. I thought this was the only sonh she
performed in *regular* tuning. It is real nice playing it and since I hate
the cold this is the song for me!~
Catgirl...busy trying to put the leaves together for this tree!!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:20:20 EDT
From: CaTGirl627@aol.com
Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords)
In a message dated 10/27/1999 9:29:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
MDESTE1@aol.com writes:
<< Of course "fans" love the version that they heard first. However that
two versions (or more) exist is more than a possibility it is a probability.
Like the weather this isnt good or bad it just IS.
>>
Very good point!! I think it is perfectly fine to give some songs YOUR own
feel to it within reason. It drives me nuts when people *rape* a song. But
enjoy covers to a degree. . When we do a Joni song it is just that a cover.
We add our own style and feel and our own impression of what the song should
sound like.
Catgirl...still trying to get Amelia down right.........
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 23:23:20 EDT
From: CaTGirl627@aol.com
Subject: Re: This Just in...
In a message dated 10/27/1999 10:01:05 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes:
<< Her music from
this period (mid 70's) is not terribly accessable-it
takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up to-but
it is so rewarding when you do get it!"
I love that last bit..."it takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up
to..."
Bob >>
Hmmm.....I don't. It only took just once listen and I was hooked!!!! Now
Bob, are you being sarcastic?
Cat.....
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 02:23:57 -0400
From: "Eric Taylor"
Subject: Cree Louise (HOSL Demo)
Oh, oh, my my!!!
Joni's delivery of Cherokee Louise on the HOSL Demo is overwhelming!
It's my favorite guitar work I've yet hear her do! She's playing both the
guitar & the base line.
Sure hope she puts it on her boxed set....
E.T.
------------------------------
End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #245
******************************
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Siquomb, isn't she?