From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #242 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 242 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: No Apologies ["Kakki" ] Re: Otis and Marlena ["Kakki" ] Re: Cotton Avenue [MDESTE1@aol.com] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [Howard Wright ] Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) [MDESTE1@aol.com] This Just in... [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Dreamland. Discuss ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: Dreamland. Discuss [Louis Lynch ] Re: joni & Ricki ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present [catman ] Cassettes Available [Bounced Message ] Does Joni influence your life too much? [Louis Lynch ] How much, how often? [Jason Maloney ] Dreamland - discuss. ["John Low" ] Re: Jonis Chronological Love Life [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Hoyt Axton & Joni [Leslie Mixon ] RE: Does Joni influence your life too much? ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Does Joni influence your life too much? ["Kakki" ] Re: Cookbook [RomeLife ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:25:19 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: No Apologies > A couple of months ago I mentioned that Juan and Freddy are mentioned in the > liner notes on CMIARS...Does this enlighten any listers as to who they > are??? That's a good catch, Russell. I just pulled out my CM and see them listed as Federico Jimenez and Juan Jimenez in the "Thanks to" section. I'd imagined that Freddy and Juan could be anybody - maybe her pool-playing buddies, or two young, precocious boys who are children of a friend, or alternate nicknames for a couple of her cats or even imaginary friends or alter egos. ;-) But you got my bloodhound gene going and I did some web searching and the only thing I could come up with that seems intriguing is a Federico Jimenez who is on the Board of Trustees (along with actors Edward James Olmos and Jimmy Smits) of the Latino Museum of History, Art & Culture, which is just a few blocks from me here in L.A. He is also listed as the owner of "Federico's Gallery". Hmmmm... Kakki NP: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:42:22 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena E.T. wrote: >Joni is certainly not being nasty or racist in her caricature of Otis & Marlina. Rather she paints two >adorable characters I have grown to love more & more over the years. It never struck me as racist, either. There were a number of years where it seemed like half the people in the Northeast either vacationed in or retired to Florida. Most of my east coast relatives had a place there at one time or another. I always looked at the song as more of a somewhat humorous and generalized indictment of indulgent consumption of fun in the sun and jaded indifference to real world problems. Kakki ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:33:21 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Cotton Avenue I went back and listened several times to the passsage referred to and Joni is clearly saying "sizin'" because she referres in the verse to people sitting around checking other people out. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 13:20:36 +0100 (BST) From: Howard Wright Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) Hi all joni guitar-freaks! I hope we can come to an agreement on the chords for Urge for going here. Two things I think need to be stressed: 1) It's *very* useful to have the chord shapes written out when quoting the songs. That way we can be sure what chord shapes we are talking about. 2) It seems that we are actually referring to *different* versions of the song. What pat wrote is how he remembers Joni teaching it to him. Who's to say that the recorded version that most of us know is the same as this? I don't think it is - because the chords he has given for the chorus are very different. The chords for the recorded version (from the "Hits" CD) of the chorus are essentially: G D A and I get the urge for going ... pat wrote them as: C D Amaj7 So the version Joni showed him must have been different. This wouldn't surprise me - early versions of "Little Green" had different chords, and recent live performances show Joni changing the chords to songs like "Amelia" and "Just like this train". So PLEASE remember, we are talking about different versions of the song, so no wonder the chords don't match! There are accurate chords and tablature for the Hits Cd version of Urge available from the Hits songbook. As I remember, the tuning is given as standard, and the book's version for this song looked and sounded fine to me. Also, just to clarify pat's explanation: >also, what I'm referring to here >as an 'Amaj7 & Gmaj7' is a 3-finger Fmaj7 position moved up to 5 & 3, >respectively... hope that's clear enough) This is a bit confusing, but essentially pat's Amaj7 is an A (x07650) and pat's Gmaj7 is a G6/A (x05430). These are actually the same chord shapes as given on the jmdl site. Just to summarise: pat's chords are no doubt fine for playing the version of Urge that Joni showed him, but to play the *recorded* version, you need different chords. The ones from the Hits songbook or the ones on the jmdl site are fine for this. Howard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:26:19 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: Urge for going (guitar chords) I love Howard's take on the different chord shapes one of which was shared directly by Joni with someone and another taken directly from the "recorded" version. Personally I believe that one plays any song to fit the way they want to play or sing a given song. Although its always cool to see someone play the details "right off the record". Having said that I have noticed how most people on the list have this idea that musicians are bonded to a song's chords and details like a siamese twin. That they are always bound to play a song a certain way under penalty of the court. My experience has been that unless a song has some signiture instrumental passage (the introduction to Layla for instance) the songwriter will frequently deviate from the original playing of it. Joni plays Woodstock today at her performances light years from her original. Even Eric Clapton plays Layla on his unplugged version in a slow shuffle as opposed to the histrionic Phil Spector mode of the original album. Of course "fans" love the version that they heard first. However that two versions (or more) exist is more than a possibility it is a probability. Like the weather this isnt good or bad it just IS. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:57:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: This Just in... Just thought you guys might like to see this excerpt from today's XTC digest: "Thank you Gary Hooper for backing me up on 'Hejira". When I reccomend Joni Mitchell, people tend to either think I'm kidding or use it as proof of my giving in to hippie impulses, accompanied by a complete loss of taste in music. Niether one, folks. I'm being serious and I still love the Buzzcocks, but Hejira is a truly wonderful album! And only Joni can write an album full of road imagery while avoiding sounding like Jackson Browne! (thank God) Hejira is easily in my top ten, too. Absolutely breathtaking. I would reccomend 'The Hissing of Summer Lawns" and "Court and Spark" as well. Her music from this period (mid 70's) is not terribly accessable-it takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up to-but it is so rewarding when you do get it!" I love that last bit..."it takes a few listens to appreciate what she's up to..." Bob NP: The Eagles, from their first, don't know the title, the one that goes..."there's a train leaves here this morning, I don't know, what I might be on..." -------------------------------------------------------------- The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are hereby notified that any use, review, retransmission, dissemination, distribution, reproduction or any action taken in reliance upon this message is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender and may not necessarily reflect the views of the company. -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:26:36 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Catman, the righteous, says: "I don't get drunk tho!" Hey, back off! I don't get *drunk* (this is silliness talking by the way - I'm not *really* angry). I just get pleasantly buzzed - 2 or 3 drinks is about it for me (if they could only come up with a way to keep the slight buzz at an even keel, that would suit me just fine. Maybe I should just fill up an IV bag with a solution of alcohol that would remain at a constant level in the bloodstream... disgusting thought.) I don't get "drunk" anymore after one bad experience where I actually don't remember a few things that I did and, fortunately for me, I was with friends, so they never let me do anything terribly bad (although I managed to lose both contacts lenses AND my glasses that evening and my eyesight is really bad, so, not only was it foolish and stupid, it taught me a good lesson, and it served me darn right! This is going back a long way now. I'm older now, but not much wiser.) I just don't like the thought of not remembering. I also decided that, if I was going to make a fool of myself, I wanted to be fully aware of it. Catman Colin also said: "this list has made me more confident in real life. I am better on a one to one or when I have audience, like when i go to do my talks. I can stand in front of 100 people and talk for two hours easily, but in a party situation I just am quiet and in the corner." I know what you're saying. You can talk in front of the audience, because you're talking about something you know and possibly love and the people have come there 'specially to hear you talk - you're the expert. I used to be the same way - I could never get up and do a speech. They used to force us to do "public speaking" in school, but they never actually taught us how to do it. I must say, the way they do it with my kids is a lot gentler than how they did it when I was a kid. Back then it was just, "Here. Write a speech about [they'd give you the topic], memorize it and get up in front of the class and say it." Now they have the kids work on topics as a team and they give them more control over what they want to talk about, and they take turns presenting. I can get up and make a speech or presentation at work now as long as I know what I'm talking about (and let's hope I do, since why else would I be the one doing the talk!) and I've finally gotten it through my thick skull that I really am the expert on this issue. I could get up there and make things up and people would believe me because they don't know *anything* about my area of expertise. I also find that looking around at the different people helps, make eye contact with some of them (it sounds scary at first, but then you see them as individual people) and remember all the goofs in school who used to stand up and make ridiculous statements (I found English lit classes were the worst for that - there was always someone thinking he or she had discovered something new in T.S. Eliot's poetry), or think of the boring speeches you've had to listen to at work sometimes, and realize that you really can do a better job than them - if they can do it, you can do it. It's kind of a version of "picture them naked" (except it's more like "picture them brainless!") and it works for me. So far. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 12:04:05 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: hoyt axton i was very said to learn this morning that singer songwriter hoyt axton died of a heart attack. bill NP Southbound, hoyt axton ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:07:33 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Dreamland. Discuss Mark, that was excellent! Your comments made me laugh: "Miss Fortune (I love that word play - misfortune/Miss Fortune) just wants to bag a rich husband. I'm not sure what her 'big game gun' is supposed to be literally but I love the image." I have a friend who never married who used to joke about her single status by pretending to be a cavewoman, bopping a man on the head and dragging him back to her cave. After miming that bit she'd say, "I got me one!" And when I was in university and a bunch of us would go out to a pub hoping to meet guys, some of them would refer to it as "hunting". Sick, but silly. So the "big game gun" image works in that context - big game ain't just any guy, it's one with lots of cash! Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 09:09:06 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Dreamland. Discuss Very nice interpretation! Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:25:49 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: joni & Ricki Catman says: "Just saw a video circa 79 of RLJ singing Chuck E's In Love... At first I thought it was joni;long blonde hair, beret, over bite. the voice is nothing like but it is very distinctive as is Joni's." Ricky was definitely looking very Joni-esque at that time. Which made it come as a surprise to me that RLJ had made catty remarks about Joni's jazz attempts. I'd have thought that anyone who *looked* that much like Joni (I thought it was one of those imitation/flattery things) would have appreciated Joni more. However, context is everything - something may have been left out or lost in the translation, I suppose. I like RLJ too. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:52:23 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: JMDL Cookbook/birthday present Oh Catherine, you have gone down in my estimation now-I thought you were a lush! I HATE the feeling of being drunk. Got drunk a lot when younger. Could never judge it so I quit altogether. About public speaking: When i do mine, for which I am popular because people leave on an up, I always forget what I am talking about! I go off on some tanget and then forget how to get back and what to get back to. So I say 'what was I talking about?' and someone yells out what it was. They find this amusing and think it is part of my 'act'. It isn't! I really do go blank. Some places i go to they tell me I have a way of getting away 'with murder' in that i can be blunt and to the point without causing offence. I think your reasoning for why i can do this is probably quite accurate. i have no idea why I can do it. Something happens once I am up there and get very animated and into the 'flow'. I have a good time and so do the audience. Usually these occasions are solemn affairs 'cept when i do them. i don't have any set plans, or talks. i just start talking and see what comes out. Often i think ' I didn't know I knew that' or 'I haven't made that connection before'. The laughter always surprises me. i don't tell jokes and don't set out to be amusing. it just happens. I am told it the is way I say things and the anologies I use. I have had one, no, two bummers. i knew I was in trouble the minute I arrived-I thought I was at the Tory party conference!(a bit like a group of staunch republicans). bw colin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:30:11 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Jonis Chronological Love Life I have been seeking out and finding among all of jonis songs certain songs that are rarely mentioned on the list or in the cafe and one in particular I have plans to submit a kind of in-depth analysis of the music because its so interesting. In doing this I began to notice that many times, I believe, joni sends messages to her former relationships, in a classy way of course, yeah right. Anyway there have been many mentions of Joni being an item with certain main guys like Klein (of course) but there were a couple of other significant relationships over the years. Can someone either post or send me privately a sort of chronology of the main relationships and their alleged duration. (Say John Jones from 1974-76, ). I am asking this because many of the references in these songs are cryptic in nature and to know who it was might give an insight into several aspects of the songs themselves. Now Joni herself references her having collected men "like railroad ties" and the reference in Cactus Tree to "a drummer and a dreamer and of course there may be more" indicates that its ok to ask this question. Im sure someone out there knows the answer or most of it. I would appreciate it if someone could send me this information. marcel. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:34:24 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena I didn't think of Otis and Marlena as Jewish either until someone mentioned Seinfeld the other day and that got me picturing them as Seinfeld's Uncle Leo or George Costanza's parents. I had difficulty actually trying to figure out whether they were a husband-and-wife, or whether Otis was a servant of some kind. I pictured him as being a black guy (maybe I was thinking of Otis Redding!), chauffeur type, and Marlena as this middle-aged, or young-old (under 80!) rich white lady - kind of a "Driving Miss Daisy" scenario. He's driving her around, checking her in to the Miami Royal and so on. At other times, I would see them as a middle-aged, rather than older, married couple. Whatever the case may be, I find Joni is sympathetic with them, she treats them affectionately even as she pokes fun at them and others like them. Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:03:13 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Cassettes Available From: cinn011@attglobal.net Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:58:19 -0400 I'm still offering to make dubs of what I call Tape Tree #7a. It includes the complete "Joni's Jazz" concert, held in New York City's Central Park. On the third tape is Joni's appearance on "The World Cafe" from a few years ago. You'll need (2) 110 minute cassettes (suggest Maxell XII-S or TDK SA-X) and (1) 120 minute cassette (suggest Maxell or TDK D). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:23:13 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: Does Joni influence your life too much? Hi all, I'm in a questioning mood, today, I guess. Maybe a new thread... I've read how people have Jonimoments (TM) in supermarkets and such. And concerts and releases are a big central deal. There are so many great themes and hooks in her music that it's easy to look at an ugly new shopping center and sing "paved Paradise, and put up a parking lot..." But does Ms. Mitchell have a dominant influence over your art or music, your outlook on people, the way you handle things, etc.? I noticed it last evening in the recording studio. I'm doing a new album of traditional harp and harpsichord music -- Irish and Renaissance (I sell them at Renaissance festivals). We're talking very traditional, almost classical. The engineer for this project just met me last week. Last night, he stopped me and said. "I think you're putting too many slurs in there. Your singing reminds me of what Joni Mitchell does -- it's too modern sounding." Has this ever happened to any of you artists, poets, musicians, or dreamers out there? Is there a cure? Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:56:23 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: Rufus Beer During "Sex Kills", which I have just been playing from the "Misses" CD, there was a moment which reminded me of the recent/current discussion on the sometimes rather unusual pronounciations Joni gives to some words or phrases. "Lawyers haven't been this popular since Rufus Beer slaughtered half of France....." Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:53:48 +0100 From: Jason Maloney Subject: How much, how often? I've been catching up on a backlog of Joni-mail created over the weekend while I was getting my PC sorted out, and a thought/query which struck me today, was "how much Joni do you all listen to?" Obviously, everyone listens to varying amounts.....for some of you, work or families may restrict your available music-listening time during the day. So, the question is perhaps more along the lines of what percentage of your overall time spent listening to music is Joni? And how often do you slap on each Joni CD from her catalogue? I'm guessing Mingus may not fare too well in the latter category :-) Why am I suddenly interested in such things? Well, as thread upon thread of lyric/song/album-related topics or snippets appear on the JMDL, I am continually amazed at the vast wealth of apparently instantly-accessible knowledge so many of you possess on all things Joni. Is it derived from so many years of endless repeated listenings? (for the older albums), or maybe from learning the songs in order to perform/interpret them yourselves? Or do you all have the entire Joni collection on your persons at all times (perhaps in a one-size-fits-all JMDL rucksack?), ready to delve into at the shortest of notice to purloin the neccessary track and/or information? I may have 18 Joni CDs - more than I have of ANY other artist - and listen to Joni more often than almost anyone else, but that's still not frequently enough for me to even know a fraction of the information so effortlessly divulged and shared around. I don't ponder all the intricacies and nuances of her work to the same degree as so many of you do with such eloquence and insight. I am beginning to feel extremely inadequate! Maybe I just spread my listening time too thinly around on too many different artists. So folks, what's the secret here? :-) Jason. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:15:37 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Dreamland - discuss. Jamie wrote: >'Great White Wonder' - why are they talking over a glass of rum? Is >it a >Hemingway allusion? I'm not suggesting that this is what was meant but - wasn't the "Great White Wonder" the first and most famous Dylan bootleg? And, didn't Joni (according to the much maligned Mr. Hinton) first perform "Dreamland" while she was touring with Dylan's Rolling Thunder Revue? John (in Sydney). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 20:57:49 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Jonis Chronological Love Life In a message dated 10/27/99 4:33:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, MDESTE1@aol.com writes: << Now Joni herself references her having collected men "like railroad ties" and the reference in Cactus Tree to "a drummer and a dreamer and of course there may be more" indicates that its ok to ask this question. >> Do you mean "Railroad cars" (from Just Like This Train) or "railroad ties" from some other lyric I do not recognize? In either case, I think you may be reading too much into what you think are "clue" to former lovers. I also think that asking someone to compile such a list if patently offensive to myself, though I am sure there are plenty of people on the list who will accuse me of trying to impose my personal tastes and opinions on the rest, even if they personally also find such a request offensive. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 18:45:25 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: Hoyt Axton & Joni I was also sad to learn of the passing of Hoyt Axton. More than twenty years ago, I took this photo of Joni singing with Hoyt - that's (the late) Tim Hardin between them: http://www.jonimitchell.com/BreadETC78.html Leslie Mixon ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:38:21 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Does Joni influence your life too much? the harper asks: > But does Ms. Mitchell have a dominant influence over your art or music, your > outlook on people, the way you handle things, etc.? > believe it or not, i was thinking about the same thing the other day: whether joni has influenced me in any way. and i was very disappointed to realize that she hasn't. as a matter of fact, i don't think that anybody has influenced me at all. this may sound as a very arrogant thing to say but it is actually rather sad because what i'm basically doing is admitting that i'm a very disabled person that lacks the capacity to assimilate experience. i have been touched, turned on so to speak, by many people but not influenced. for instance, joni helped me become aware that it was all right to write songs about myself, but she didn't influence me stylewise. i will find myself quoting joni 100 times a day, but only because she said what had always been on my mind better than i ever could. and if i explore my career decisions or life choices, i come to the same conclusion: i'm always fumbling deaf, dumb and blind: i'm the village idiot, unable to see where i'm going or where i'm coming from. i am doomed to remove the sleeper behind me so that i can put it in front of me and make the rail go a foot forward over and over. i couldn't even go past my first semester in college because of my inability to learn from somebody else. it took all my patience just to be able to finish high school. i can empathize, so i guess i'm not psychotic. but i just won't be influenced. convinced, maybe. influenced, never. wallyk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 02:47:50 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: How much, how often? i think that the knowledge comes from listening to joni for so many years! you know, 30 years with the same person is a significant experience of cohabitation. of course, reading every interview helps too. and then there's simon! wallyk > Why am I suddenly interested in such things? Well, as thread upon thread > of lyric/song/album-related topics or snippets appear on the JMDL, I am > continually amazed at the vast wealth of apparently instantly-accessible > knowledge so many of you possess on all things Joni. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:53:14 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Does Joni influence your life too much? Harper Lou asked: > But does Ms. Mitchell have a dominant influence over your art or music, your > outlook on people, the way you handle things, etc.? Like Wally, I don't feel that Joni has influenced my general outlook or the way I handle things in my life. For me, it was that she always seemed to be saying in her songs what was already in my mind/heart/soul and so I felt an instant and very strong affinity with her. Even some of the stages she went through (as reflected in her albums) seemed to mirror in many ways what I was experiencing at the time. While there were a few people in my life in addition to Joni who inspired me to learn music and to write songs, she was definitely a huge role model in that sense. Because I was fairly young (14) and impressionable when she became well-known, she had a big influence on the way I used my voice when I sang. I don't know if that was ultimately such a good thing - in retrospect, it would probably have been wiser to concentrate on developing my natural singing voice - but I just wanted so badly to sing the songs exactly like her at the time ;-) That's why I get so thrilled and inspired now when I hear people like Marian, Terry, Bryan, Marcel, Michael and others singing and playing Joni's songs in their very own voice and style. It helps get me over that old mental block pattern of thinking it has to sound exactly like her. Now, as to whether the *Joni list* has influenced my life, well...........;-D Kakki NP: New CSNY - Someday Soon - (Ahh...pretty, pretty) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:24:25 +0200 From: RomeLife Subject: Re: Cookbook Sounds good Marian - Well done! Tube ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #242 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?