From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #241 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 27 1999 Volume 01 : Number 241 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Otis and Marlena - a question ["Patricia O'Connor" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:08:02 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena - a question Eric wrote: > I've always thought this song was about a Jewish couple like Mr & Mrs >Seinfeld or Fran's mom from The Nanny. But then I've recently wondered if >Otis could be the Black man who appears on the DJRD cover. In previous discussions of this song over the last couple of years, I have wanted to bring something up but have not because I wasn't sure if I could make myself understood and didn't want to deal with the flames if I was misunderstood...here goes: I have *always*, from my very first listen on the day DJRD was released, heard anti-semitism in this song. Unlike Eric, I didn't picture Otis and Marlena as Jews, I thought of O&M as Joni and Don Alias, I have the strong impression that the guests at Miami Royal are elderly Jews. Why elderly Jews and not simply elderly people of any creed? Because of the consistant duality in Joni's lyrics, (nowhere more evident than on DJRD) I heard the "they" in "They've come for fun and sun" as a play against the Muslims sticking up Washington. So because I interpreted the lyric in that way I also found it to be racist and downright nasty, listen to it that way and you'll see what I mean. That's not to say I dislike the song. Furthermore; last year on a long drive with a childhood friend and fellow Joni fanatic, heading home from our second Joni concert in 2 days, O&M was playing in the car: "Do you think this song is anti-semitic?" I asked, without any explaination of why I was inquiring. "Yes" she said. POC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 02:49:48 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Otis and Marlena Patricia O'Connor wrote: << I have *always*, from my very first listen on the day DJRD was released, heard anti-semitism in this song. Unlike Eric, I didn't picture Otis and Marlena as Jews, I thought of O&M as Joni and Don Alias, I have the strong impression that the guests at Miami Royal are elderly Jews. Why elderly Jews and not simply elderly people of any creed? Because of the consistant duality in Joni's lyrics, (nowhere more evident than on DJRD) I heard the "they" in "They've come for fun and sun" as a play against the Muslims sticking up Washington. So because I interpreted the lyric in that way I also found it to be racist and downright nasty, listen to it that way and you'll see what I mean. That's not to say I dislike the song.... >> I don't find anything antisemitic about O&M the same way I don't find anything antisemitic about the humorous Jewish stereotypes portrayed by Seinfeld, The Nanny, Northern Exposure, SNL or Joan Rivers! One of the many things I admire about Jewish people is their sense of humor & ability to poke fun at themselves (something we Irish should take a lesson from). Joni is certainly not being nasty or racist in her caricature of Otis & Marlina. Rather she paints two adorable characters I have grown to love more & more over the years. E.T. ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #241 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?