From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #234 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 21 1999 Volume 01 : Number 234 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: DED's defenders ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Joni musings ... ["Helen M. Adcock" ] News on Joni's Next Album ["Paul Castle" ] Re: DED's defenders ["Helen M. Adcock" ] RE: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... [catman ] Re: Joni/JT analogy [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Dream List II [Julian51469@aol.com] Re: DED's defenders ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: a request - DED songbook [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Joni/JT analogy [TerryM2442@aol.com] revisiting classic joni ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re:News on Joni's Next Album ["Lori REASON"] Re: Blue on Gold CD ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: songwriting JMDLers? (NJ) ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: News on Joni's Next Album ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] now delurking [ZZScotty@aol.com] Re: revisiting classic joni [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: now delurking ["Jennifer L. Nodine" ] Re: now delurking [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: revisiting classic joni [Don Rowe ] RE: revisiting classic joni [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Joni/JT analogy [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: revisiting classic joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: revisiting classic joni ["Ken (Slarty)" ] Re: revisiting classic joni ["Catherine McKay" ] RE: revisiting classic joni ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: revisiting classic joni [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: Joni/JT analogy [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Joni/JT analogy [IVPAUL42@aol.com] RE: revisiting classic joni [Louis Lynch ] DED's Defenders [evian ] re: new Joni [Susan McNamara ] Re: now delurking [catman ] Re: Joni/JT analogy [catman ] RE: Joni/JT analogy [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: revisiting classic joni ["Phil Klein" ] Re: Joni/JT analogy ["Kakki" ] RE: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: News on Joni's Next Album [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: revisiting classic joni ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: revisiting classic joni ["Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: DED's defenders Anne wrote: << I realize I'm the only JMDLer who actually LIKES DED ;~) >> Dog Eat Dog does sometimes seem to get a bum rap on the JMDL but I for one (& certainly not the only one) adore this album. I often sing along to Fiction when I'm pissed at the world & it always makes me feel much better. The Three Great Stimulants is SO succinct & I'll NEVER forget hearing Joni play it live at the conspiracy of Hope concert! Shiny Toys is classic Joni & I don't understand why some people on this list consider it fluff. Ethiopia is the only song on the subject that ever moved me to tears. I COMPLETELY disagree that Joni was jumping on some bandwagon for this (or any) song! Actually she was once again ahead of her time linking famine to deforestation many years before this fact became common knowledge. Impossible Dreamer is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! I've heard it was Joni's tribute to John Lennon. Whatever, it is an extremely haunting piece. DED is definately up there with my top 10 fav Joni albums/CDs. & I simply LOVE the cover art - very 80's! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:26:32 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni musings ... Don wrote: >By way of a related issue ... a friend of mine who is >a big Tommy Shaw fan went to see him play an acoustic >set at a local Borders bookstore. When asked for >requests, Tommy couldn't remember some of the words to >his own songs, so she cheerfully sang them for him. >We could so easily do the same for Joni, I'm thinking! It's already happened! Remember "Song For Sharon" on PWWAM! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:38:07 -0400 From: "Paul Castle" Subject: News on Joni's Next Album WallyB wrote: >She told me how a bunch of the older, jaded players >had huddled into the playback booth and teared up >when they listened to the playbacks. The fact that these guys were not already propping up the bar at The Dog and Duck during the playback is almost unheard of. But they were 'tearing up' as well? Can you imagine what we're all going to be like? PaulC ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:47:08 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: DED's defenders Eric wrote: >Dog Eat Dog does sometimes seem to get a bum rap on the JMDL but I for >one (& certainly not the only one) adore this album. Personally I actually love ALL of Joni's albums - I love some a little more than others, but they're all still loved. But here's an easy method to enable everyone on the JMDL to say they absolutely love DED. Just compare it to any of the following: Spice Girls - Spiceworld Mariah Carey - Sing-A-Long (Karaoke) Geri Halliwell - Schizophrenic or my own personal favourite: Leonard Nimoy/William Shatner - Spaced Out (The Very Best Of) You'll be singing DED's praises in no time! Helen P.S. These are all legitimate albums - available from CD-NOW. Get those credit cards out and start ordering! _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:57:18 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... Wally, for God's sake, get some sleep! > > The Renaissance is not over, it has just become more selective. > > > > Harper Lou > > >after spending the last 50 HOURS without sleep, editing application essays >written by [mostly] mediocre, dull and greedy MBA candidates, this is >precisely the sentence i needed to read. bless you harper lou for lighting >the candle in this poor heart of mine today. >wallyk > Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:23:06 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... I just read an article tha said The renaissance didn't exist-it's just something made up by Western Elitists. Wally Kairuz wrote: > > The Renaissance is not over, it has just become more selective. > > > > Harper Lou > > after spending the last 50 HOURS without sleep, editing application essays > written by [mostly] mediocre, dull and greedy MBA candidates, this is > precisely the sentence i needed to read. bless you harper lou for lighting > the candle in this poor heart of mine today. > wallyk - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:03:35 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy Alan said: "Circle Game would be inappropriate I guess [as a Joni with orchestra remake]" It could be interesting if she added a new verse or two from her perspective as a mature adult - she could do that with Both Sides Now as well. I think it'd be kinda cool. I wonder, if she did "The last time I saw Richard" whether she might have to change anything? Suppose she saw Richard again after '68, in another place. Suppose he and the figure skater had divorced? Would they meet in a bar? or at Starbucks! :D Would Richard be "cynical and drunk" or would he have totally changed his life? Maybe he's moved out to the country and is into organic farming. Maybe he's a real estate agent. Maybe he's gotten remarried... just wondering. Catherine (in Toronto)(missing my 12-year old who's gone on a school trip until Friday) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:24:12 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy Catherine wondered: <> That's a very COOL idea, Catherine. Of course, she's have to call it, "The NEXT Time I saw Richard"...could be very creative, indeed, all those years later... And of course Joni re-doing her old songs would be great, as all things Joni are, but what I'm REALLY looking to is her next collection of *original* stuff...as meaty as TTT is, (and thanks to Jonifest and you guys for making me see that) I'm ready to see her NEW songs celebrating her reunion, her becoming a Grandmother, and of course, her continuing search of truth, beauty, and love... But of course I'll embrace every note from her I can get! Bob NP: "Edith", Boston Commons '83 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:34:48 EDT From: Julian51469@aol.com Subject: Dream List II I've been loving this thread of dream remake albums. Has anyone done the dream tribute album? Here's mine: The Wolf that Lives in Linsey - Michael Hedges The Dry Cleaner from Desmoines - Frank Zappa This Flight Tonight - Jimi Hendrix Cactus Tree - Billie Holliday The Fiddle and the Drum - Woody Guthrie Blue - Janice Joplin Free Man in Paris - Jim Morrison The Jungle Line - Kurt Cobain Paprika Plains - Duke Ellington For the Roses - Laura Nyro and then for the folks that are still around... Blonde in the Bleachers - Madona Don't Interupt the Sorrow - Diamanda Galas Coyote - Ani Difranco Refuge of the Roads - Wilco The Silky Veils of Ardor Martin Sexton Cherokee Louise - Buffy Sante-Marie Dreamland - Mickey Hart Magdalene Laundries - Mormon Tabernacle Choir Sex Kills - Dinosaur Jr. Raised on Robbery - Squirrel Nut Zippers That Song About the Midway - Dar Williams Face Lift - Cher Rainy Night House - Tom Waits Passion Play - Rage Against the Machine Don Juan's Reckless Daughter - Kate Bush A Case of You - the Pogues California - The Red Hot Chili Peppers I realize that this could go on forever. Anyway.... I'm very excited about the new releases. Just to get the news is an early Valentines, no doubt. Thanks to Wally B., I'm vicariously having a long winded imaginary conversation with our buddy JM. Thanks Julian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:40:05 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: DED's defenders ET said: "Impossible Dreamer is absolutely BEAUTIFUL! I've heard it was Joni's tribute to John Lennon. Whatever, it is an extremely haunting piece." I love that song. The words, the music - I love the way her voice dips down on "I thought of you, I thought of you, dreamer". Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:29:20 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: RE: a request - DED songbook Dear Anne I realize I'm the only JMDLer who actually LIKES DED ;~) No, you're not!!! DED is on my list (tho' only *some* songs put it up there.) Imagine that! A DED songbook! Does one exist? Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:08:07 EDT From: TerryM2442@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy In a message dated 10/21/1999 10:06:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << I wonder, if she did "The last time I saw Richard" whether she might have to change anything? >> For starters, she'll need to bring some of it down two octaves. Other than the ending of Woodstock, this is the one song where those high notes hit me wrong. Terry, who has a brother, Richard, from Detroit ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:21:12 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: revisiting classic joni while i would love to hear joni revisit some of her older material, i am not really sure I would want to hear orchestra versions of many of her early classics. Some songs just do not lend themselves at all to the big band or orchestral arrangements. and some songs just don't lend themselves to being performed at this point in joni's life because they reflect on a young girl and frankly would sound silly coming from a woman in her fifties. it is interesting tho that only some of the songs joni wrote in her early years would seem out of place now, but others from the same era have great potential to be even stronger songs with an orchestral or big band arrangement. So while I believe that the definitive versions of songs like I think I Understand, Roses Blue, and Conversation have been recorded, I think we are in for a treat to see some amazing things come out of this revisitation. Knowing how she is, I'm sure we are in for some surprises.... possible remakes: The Rearrangement The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard Song for Sharon's Daughter bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:47:24 +0200 From: "Lori REASON" Subject: Re:News on Joni's Next Album <> Just in time for my birthday! (tee-hee) <> In defense of the orchestra, these guys can play Beethoven & Mozart backwards in their sleep. Working on a project like this is a thrill. Lori ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:45:40 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: Blue on Gold CD Eric, I bought it last month and am thrilled with it also. Well worth the 22 bucks that went up in smoke! - -Jenny from CT Eric Taylor wrote: > > Today I broke down & bought the first Joni Mitchell album I purchased back > in 1975, Blue, on 24 karat gold CD. Omygod does it sound FANTASTIC!!! On a > Roland amp & CD player through Klipch Heresy speakers it sounded better than > I've EVER heard it. But what is that scratchy noise on This Flight Tonight > when she sings "mythical"? It's not nearly as noticeable on the gold CD but > it's still there. Glad they fixed the opening to All I Want. > Also bought the HDCD of Hejira but haven't listened yet. First I replaced > all Joni's albums with CDs & now I'm replacing all Joni's CDs with HDCDs or > Gold CDs! But it's well worth it & I enjoy giving the old ones to friends. > E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:49:03 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: songwriting JMDLers? (NJ) Kakki wrote: > I'm getting into all these fantastic lyrics so much I say this year the > "JMDL Cookbook," next year the "JMDL Book of Poems and Lyrics!!" > > I second that, Kakki! How about a collective Joni song from all of us who can only think up a verse or two? - -Jenny from CT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:52:27 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album Wow, I had no idea you actually have a relationship with "her majesty" any hope of a "JMDL" mention in any new songs? - -Jenny from CT Wally Breese wrote: > > Hi everyone, > Joni phoned to tell me how excited she is about her just-completed > album of standards, recorded this past July in London. The tracks were > arranged for a full orchestra, with Joni acting as the vocalist, a la > Frank Sinatra. In fact, she recorded one song done originally by Sinatra, > as well as other tunes sung by Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, and other > romantic pop singers. She also took another pass at two of her own > classic tunes, "Both Sides Now" and "A Case Of You." Joni refers to her > new album as "A History Of North American Romantic Love In The Twentieth > Century." > > On the first day in the studio, Joni told me that she recorded four > tunes with the full 71 piece orchestra; on the second day, four more > songs went down with a 40 piece; and then on the third day, it was > wittled down to a big band ensemble for the final four songs. She told me > how a bunch of the older, jaded players had huddled into the playback > booth and teared up when they listened to the playbacks. > > The album could be released as early as Valentines Day (and I do mean > in the year 2000, not 2001). Joni says that the record company is very > pleased with the tracks and has committed to putting a good deal of > promotion behind the album's release. (Wonderful!) Her latest project has > given Joni the idea of doing an entire album of her own songs in this > format. She mentioned to me re-doing songs such as "Ludwig's Tune" with > an orchestra. > > The 12 songs on her upcoming album (tentatively titled Both Sides Now): > > You're My Thrill > At Last > Comes Love > You've Changed > Answer Me, My Love > A Case Of You > Don't Go To Strangers > It All Depends On You > I'll Get By > Stormy Weather > I Wish I Were In Love Again > Both Sides Now > > I'll have an official conversation with Joni, talking about her new > album, as well as other subjects, up on the pages of JM.COM soon. > > Oh, yes! Joni has also just recorded "a little singing" on a track for > Brian Blade's second album with his group, The Fellowship. That album > should be out early next year. > > Later, > Wally Breese > The Joni Mitchell Homepage > http://www.JoniMitchell.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:01:32 EDT From: ZZScotty@aol.com Subject: now delurking Hello to all. I've been on the list since October 1. I've been a Joni fan since about 1968 (which probably makes me older than 30). Thanks to Jen for turning me on to the list (after buying a couple of Joni CD's from her on ebay). I decided to go back and read old postings, and was inspired to write in response to a posting from richnew@slip-3.slip.net (richnew) on 9/10/96: "Finally, I really wasn't trying to be political at in any way. It is just interesting to me that, for many a gay (male) teen in the 1970s, there weren't many musical role models or people who spoke directly to the confusion, emotional torrents, and passionate feelings we were experiencing. Certainly no openly gay men. Joni was and is a touchstone to us angst-ridden kids (and adults) trying to figure out who we were/are." This took me back to fond memories of listening to Joni in the 70's with my best friend, Chris, back when we both drove cab in Denver. I've probably never understood our joint attraction to Joni until I read that post - my friend being gay, and I angst-ridden. Chris died about a decade ago from AIDS, and I thought I'd dedicate my de-lurking to him. And, by the way, I do like Dog Eat Dog. Sean McGuire ZZScotty@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:06:36 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni Bill writes: << possible remakes: The Rearrangement The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard Song for Sharon's Daughter >> Other possible remakes: I Thought I Understood Sisotowbell Highway Rusted Tin Angel For Free, with any Purchase of .... Help Me, I've Fallen and Can't Get Up Eh?Jira Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:15:01 -0400 From: "Jennifer L. Nodine" Subject: Re: now delurking Hey Sean! Great to hear from you finally! I was sorry to hear about your friend, I think it's nice of you to dedicate your first post to him. Hope to hear more from you now. Welcome! - -Jenny ZZScotty@aol.com wrote: > > Hello to all. I've been on the list since October 1. I've been a Joni fan > since about 1968 (which probably makes me older than 30). Thanks to Jen for > turning me on to the list (after buying a couple of Joni CD's from her on > ebay). > > I decided to go back and read old postings, and was inspired to write in > response to a posting from richnew@slip-3.slip.net (richnew) on 9/10/96: > "Finally, I really wasn't trying to be political at in any way. It is just > interesting to me that, for many a gay (male) teen in the 1970s, there > weren't many musical role models or people who spoke directly to the > confusion, emotional torrents, and passionate feelings we were experiencing. > Certainly no openly gay men. Joni was and is a touchstone to us angst-ridden > kids (and adults) trying to figure out who we were/are." > > This took me back to fond memories of listening to Joni in the 70's with my > best friend, Chris, back when we both drove cab in Denver. I've probably > never understood our joint attraction to Joni until I read that post - my > friend being gay, and I angst-ridden. Chris died about a decade ago from > AIDS, and I thought I'd dedicate my de-lurking to him. > > And, by the way, I do like Dog Eat Dog. > > Sean McGuire > ZZScotty@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:31:04 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: now delurking Sean said: <> Welcome Sean to the JMDL, a cornucopia of delights for the ears, eyes and hearts of Joni's fans around the globe! Linger long and post often! I was very touched by your dedication. And, congratulations! You responded to a thread from '96 and one that was not even a day old...that's gotta be some kind of record! :~) Bob NP: XTC, "Washaway" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 10:38:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni Well how can I resist this! Revisits I'd like to see include: A Strange Old Man Blue-Hair In The Bleachers God Must Be A Rhythmically Unchallenged Male Individual Night In The Suburbs Harry's Time Share Both Sides Later Just Like This Bullet Train So many more ... so little time! ===== "I would not bet against the development of a time machine. My opponent may have already built one ... and know the future." -- Stephen Hawking __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:01:22 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: revisiting classic joni OK, getting very silly now...: How Do You Start Any Three Stimulants Tarnished Toys My Very Old Man (perhaps I'm laughing at this a bit too much... but I've been spending much of what used to be my 'free' time caring my elderly mother - this bit of humor, as politically incorrect as it is, is refreshingly wicked ;~) Anne ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:17:46 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy In a message dated 10/21/99 10:31:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << Catherine wondered: <> That's a very COOL idea, Catherine. Of course, she's have to call it, "The NEXT Time I saw Richard"...could be very creative, indeed, all those years later... >> Yeah, right, and someone should turn Dvorak's New World Symphony into a rap song, too. C'mon. Don't mess around too much with the lyrics. A new arrangement is one thing, but other than that I think she'd do better to write more new songs than to "enrich" the older ones. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:23:34 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni In a message dated 10/21/99 11:21:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, foa@igc.org writes: << The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard >> The Penultimate Time I Saw Richard? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:27:04 -0400 From: "Ken (Slarty)" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni I Buried Richard Enough said IVPAUL42@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/21/99 11:21:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, foa@igc.org > writes: > The Penultimate Time I Saw Richard? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:37:09 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni LOL - this is great! >Bill writes: > ><< possible remakes: > > The Rearrangement > The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard > Song for Sharon's Daughter > >> > >Other possible remakes: > > I Thought I Understood > Sisotowbell Highway > Rusted Tin Angel > For Free, with any Purchase of .... > Help Me, I've Fallen and Can't Get Up > Eh?Jira > >Jimmy > Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:42:16 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: RE: revisiting classic joni Silly! I love it! How 'bout: Dog Ate Dog A face lift is the best happiness The great grandsire of sorrow (old) ladies of the Canyon (nursing home) Big Green Catherine (in Toronto) cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:47:26 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni In a message dated 10/21/99 2:45:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, cateri@hotmail.com writes: << Big Green >> Grown Green (groan) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:45:55 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy Paul, aka Mr. Storm Cloud, rains on my parade: <> So Paul, you expect her just to act like every other songwriter out there? Isn't "Chinese Cafe" partially a "rewrite/update" of "Little Green"? I wasn't talking about her doing some cheesy Bob Muller parody of "Richard"...what if she writes a song about going to Richard's funeral, and how she feels about what's unresolved between them and all the accompanying emotions and abstractions...it could be brilliant! You sell her short, my friend... Bob, too much imagination for my own good I suppose... NP: Kool Moe Dee, "Dvorak's New World Symphony" :~D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 14:51:38 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy In a message dated 10/21/99 2:48:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << Isn't "Chinese Cafe" partially a "rewrite/update" of "Little Green"? I wasn't talking about her doing some cheesy Bob Muller parody of "Richard"...what if she writes a song about going to Richard's funeral, and how she feels about what's unresolved between them and all the accompanying emotions and abstractions...it could be brilliant! You sell her short, my friend... Bob, too much imagination for my own good I suppose... >> That would be different than merely adding a verse to an old song. Your reply merely reinforces my point that new songs, even ones that follow-up on old themes, would be better than rehashing old ones. Maybe she should add "Don't Rain On Bob's Parade" to her album of standards? Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:57:03 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: revisiting classic joni Another aging boomer chimes in with more Joni remakes ... Slight Inclination for Going Why Do Fools Remarry for the Fourth Time You Turn Me On, I'm the Internet Black Crow's Feet Raised on Reverie Grandson of Carey Blue Rest Home Room Not getting any younger, Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:06:18 -0600 From: evian Subject: DED's Defenders Anne wrote: > I realize I'm the only JMDLer who actually LIKES DED ;~) > And even though I don't have much more than a "me too", I just have to say again that DED is in fact one of my favorite Joni albums. The thing that I want to add is that WTRF is the album I probably have the biggest problem embracing. I like some tracks, but the ones I really like are the ones everyone else seems to hate -- "Underneath the Streetlights" is simply irrestistable to me. I love love love that song. However, the album as a whole just doesn't rock my world. I used to not care for STAS and Clouds, but I have to say that I really appreciate Clouds now (and "The Gallery" is on my Joni top 10 now). But WTRF.... I can take it or leave it. My predictions for the new Joni.... remember how "What's New" by Linda just took everyone by surprise? Well, hopefully, this new Joni will do the same.... Evian np: Stevie Wonder -- "Love Light in Flight" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:21:09 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: re: new Joni > My predictions for the new Joni.... remember how "What's New" by >Linda just took everyone by surprise? Well, hopefully, this new Joni >will do the same.... Good comparison,evian! I loved the stuff Linda Ronstadt did with Nelson Riddle. I think what is really going to blow people away about this new album is Joni's voice as instrument. Since Turbulent Indigo her voice has really hit some deep registers and she will be sorted yet again into another category with people like Peggy Lee, Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday. I can't wait for this album, it's going to be grand!!! :-) It's getting released near my birthday too! (my husband says that Joni always releases albums near Christmas and my birthday to make his job easier!! :-) Takecare, sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:30:12 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: now delurking > > > This took me back to fond memories of listening to Joni in the 70's with my > best friend, Chris, back when we both drove cab in Denver. I've probably > never understood our joint attraction to Joni until I read that post - my > friend being gay, and I angst-ridden. Chris died about a decade ago from > AIDS, and I thought I'd dedicate my de-lurking to him. Every now and then a post evokes scenes in the mind reminiscent of a good movie. This was one. Welcome to the list. > > > And, by the way, I do like Dog Eat Dog. > > Sean McGuire > ZZScotty@aol.com - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:33:48 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy > Yeah, right, and someone should turn Dvorak's New World Symphony into a rap > song, too. > C'mon. Don't mess around too much with the lyrics. A new arrangement is one > thing, but other than that I think she'd do better to write more new songs > than to "enrich" the older ones. Till I read this I thought this was a light hearted thread. Had no idea at all that you guys were being serious. Thanks for putting me str8, Paul. > > > Paul I - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 15:50:25 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Joni/JT analogy Hey Colin! I don't think a SOUL on this list is being serious this afternoon (evening/morning/whatever). In fact, I suspect that we'll all be on the news later as a strange phenomenon of people giggling uncontrollably hits the internet like a virus. Anne btw: I'm so glad you've returned to the list. I can see why everyone said it wasn't the same without you! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 20:57:40 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:21:12 -0400 > From: "Bill Dollinger" > Subject: revisiting classic joni > > while i would love to hear joni revisit some of her older > material, i am not really sure I would want to hear > orchestra versions of many of her early classics. Some > songs just do not lend themselves at all to the big band > or orchestral arrangements. and some songs just don't > lend themselves to being performed at this point in > joni's life because they reflect on a young girl and > frankly would sound silly coming from a woman in her fifties. > > it is interesting tho that only some of the songs joni wrote > in her early years would seem out of place now, but others from > the same era have great potential to be even stronger songs > with an orchestral or big band arrangement. So while I believe that > the definitive versions of songs like I think I Understand, Roses Blue, > and Conversation have been recorded, I think we are in for > a treat to see some amazing things come out of this revisitation. > Knowing how she is, I'm sure we are in for some surprises.... In a radio interview a while ago, Joni mentioned that someone had done an orchestral arrangement of songs from STAS. Joni said that although the arrangements were beautiful, she couldn't sing in that key any more, but she was thinking of doing it in a kind of Marlene Dietrich sprechgesang voice, and did the first line of Marcie to demonstrate. I wonder what came of that arrangement? Now wouldn't an album of Joni-impersonates-Marlene-singing-Joni be interesting? Phil ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:12:58 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni In a message dated 10/21/99 3:04:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis.Lynch@wonderware.com writes: << Grandson of Carey >> How about: Carey, Can I Borrow Your Cane? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:07:38 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni Marlene Deitrich doing Marcie! What a fabulous concept!!!! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Klein To: Cc: Bill Dollinger Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 4:57 PM Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni > > > Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 11:21:12 -0400 > > From: "Bill Dollinger" > > Subject: revisiting classic joni > > > > while i would love to hear joni revisit some of her older > > material, i am not really sure I would want to hear > > orchestra versions of many of her early classics. Some > > songs just do not lend themselves at all to the big band > > or orchestral arrangements. and some songs just don't > > lend themselves to being performed at this point in > > joni's life because they reflect on a young girl and > > frankly would sound silly coming from a woman in her fifties. > > > > it is interesting tho that only some of the songs joni wrote > > in her early years would seem out of place now, but others from > > the same era have great potential to be even stronger songs > > with an orchestral or big band arrangement. So while I believe that > > the definitive versions of songs like I think I Understand, Roses Blue, > > and Conversation have been recorded, I think we are in for > > a treat to see some amazing things come out of this revisitation. > > Knowing how she is, I'm sure we are in for some surprises.... > > In a radio interview a while ago, Joni mentioned that someone had > done an orchestral arrangement of songs from STAS. Joni said that > although the arrangements were beautiful, she couldn't sing in that > key any more, but she was thinking of doing it in a kind of Marlene > Dietrich sprechgesang voice, and did the first line of Marcie to > demonstrate. I wonder what came of that arrangement? Now wouldn't an > album of Joni-impersonates-Marlene-singing-Joni be interesting? > > Phil > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:42:20 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: Joni/JT analogy Bob wrote: >I'm ready to see her NEW songs celebrating her reunion, her becoming a Grandmother, and of >course, her continuing search of truth, beauty, and love... I can't wait for that one, too. From what we've heard lately, I have the feeling that Joni's wanting to just have fun with music for awhile and after she indulges herself with exploring these musical side trips (which are *completely* valid for an "artiste" of her stature, IMO), she will knock us out with new, original material that will only be enhanced by her work in this latest phase. I'm rolling at the "revisitation" of the old titles. I thought of a few but they are too baaad for the list. How about "Slouching Towards Osteoporosis" ;-) Kakki NP: Jonatha Brooke - Last Innocent Year ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:22:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Don's Phonecall From Joni ... i CAN'T cath! i have to make enough money for new orleans, topsfield, milan and the saskatoon thing!!!!! AND i have to go to canada this winter. i can't possibly postpone this dream any longer. so ... mr sandman, get lost! wallyk > Wally, for God's sake, get some sleep! > > >after spending the last 50 HOURS without sleep, wallyk > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 16:55:13 +0000 From: Michael Paz Subject: Garth and Joni Bill wrote: " I am not a garth brooks fan, I like him as a person tho, but I find it sad and typical that when he branches out with a project that is a creative stretch (the life of chris gaines) and to me the most interesting thing he has done, he pays for it. and the media is all too happy to emphasize the "disappointing" sales." Bill- I am not really a Garth fan either but I have heard songs of his I like. I did hear this record for awhile the other day and I liked what I heard. I plan to go to Tower and give it a full run thru. As fad as the DED discussion that has raised it's ugly head again, I DO NOT HATE THIS ALBUM! It is not my fave, but I do like it as I do ALL Joni. Ethiopia would be one of my faves. Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:19:45 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album In a message dated 20/10/99 17:44:31 GMT Daylight Time, hessj@ix.netcom.com writes: << Which reminds me of a story about Laurie Anderson. She was leaving a NYC subway station one day when she came upon two men. They looked at her, and then one of them said to the other, "Oh, look. It's *another* Laurie Anderson clone." >> Which in turn reminds me of a story about Princess Anne, who for my money is easily the best of a bad bunch when it comes to our "wonderful" royal family ("they do so much for tourism, you know") - that's right, I'm not a royalist! Anyway, she was approached at some equestrian event by a couple of women, one of whom plucked up the courage to say "Excuse me, has anyone ever told you you look like Princess Anne?" The reply: "Actually, I think I'm much better looking than her". Classy, n'est-ce pas?? Azeem in London, who has today switched the heating on for the first time, in his admittedly draughty flat. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:19:47 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) In a message dated 20/10/99 20:00:51 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: << Several artists in recent years have gone back and re-tooled and re-recorded their old songs in a new style or format - Jimmy Webb, the late Gene Clark, Jim Messina, Crosby with CPR to name a few. In every case, I've been completely blown away by these albums and the gorgeous new layers they have uncovered in the songs. >> I'm certainly looking forward to Joni's new one, especially as she's only done two of her old songs, as I'm a bit ambivalent about people re-recording their own songs. I used to be a big Nanci Griffith fan, and she seems to have lost the plot completely of late, recording a pretty ropey studio album, followed by an awful covers set, including the worst Richard Thompson cover I've ever heard (Wall of Death). So imagine my dismay at seeing that her new album is a set of her old songs accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra. Oi, Griffith, NO!! You used to be a beautifully literate and observant chronicler of life's little love affairs and small victories and defeats, and you've turned into an irredeemably cheesy and syrupy goo-monger whom the muse has cruelly deserted!! Um, sorry folks, I think I need a holiday... Azeem ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:26:41 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) Azeem wrote: > Oi, Griffith, NO!! You used to be a beautifully literate and observant >chronicler of life's little love affairs and small victories and defeats, and >you've turned into an irredeemably cheesy and syrupy goo-monger whom the muse >has cruelly deserted!! Oi, Azeem, NO!!! You've been watching a lot of Harry Enfield - I was going to say "too much Harry Enfield" but there's no such thing! I have to share this skit from his show - my favourite ever, I think. A husband and wife are driving in the countryside and end up down a dead-end lane. He spends 2 or 3 minutes telling her how useless a navigator she is, and how woman can't read road-maps, and she can't cook, etc., etc., etc. (this couple have an ongoing series of skits) and she stares vacantly out the window through his entire tirade. Eventually he stops, and after a pause of about 5 seconds, still gazing out the window she says, very calmly. "You've never made me come." End of skit. I laughed until I cried! Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz - -----Original Message----- From: AzeemAK@aol.com To: kakkib@att.net ; wallyb@well.com ; joni@smoe.org Date: Friday, 22 October 1999 11:23 Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) >In a message dated 20/10/99 20:00:51 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net writes: > ><< Several artists in recent years have gone > back and re-tooled and re-recorded their old songs in a new style or > format - Jimmy Webb, the late Gene Clark, Jim Messina, Crosby with CPR to > name a few. In every case, I've been completely blown away by these albums > and the gorgeous new layers they have uncovered in the songs. >> > >I'm certainly looking forward to Joni's new one, especially as she's only >done two of her old songs, as I'm a bit ambivalent about people re-recording >their own songs. I used to be a big Nanci Griffith fan, and she seems to >have lost the plot completely of late, recording a pretty ropey studio album, >followed by an awful covers set, including the worst Richard Thompson cover >I've ever heard (Wall of Death). So imagine my dismay at seeing that her new >album is a set of her old songs accompanied by the London Symphony Orchestra. > >Um, sorry folks, I think I need a holiday... > >Azeem > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 01:42:25 +0100 From: catman Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) > > > I have to share this skit from his show - my favourite ever, I think. A > husband and wife are driving in the countryside and end up down a dead-end > lane. this reminds me that in Kingston, Surrey there is a road called Ann Boleyns Walk(cul-de-sac), which i find very funny but others don't. > Eventually he stops, and after a > pause of about 5 seconds, still gazing out the window she says, very calmly. > "You've never made me come." come again? I don't get it...... > End of skit. I laughed until I cried! > > Helen > _______________________________ > "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with > available extremes" - Carole King > > hell@ihug.co.nz > -----Original Message----- > From: AzeemAK@aol.com > To: kakkib@att.net ; wallyb@well.com ; > joni@smoe.org > Date: Friday, 22 October 1999 11:23 > Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) > > >In a message dated 20/10/99 20:00:51 GMT Daylight Time, kakkib@att.net > writes: > > > ><< Several artists in recent years have gone > > back and re-tooled and re-recorded their old songs in a new style or > > format - Jimmy Webb, the late Gene Clark, Jim Messina, Crosby with CPR to > > name a few. In every case, I've been completely blown away by these > albums > > and the gorgeous new layers they have uncovered in the songs. >> > > > >I'm certainly looking forward to Joni's new one, especially as she's only > >done two of her old songs, as I'm a bit ambivalent about people > re-recording > >their own songs. I used to be a big Nanci Griffith fan, and she seems to > >have lost the plot completely of late, recording a pretty ropey studio > album, > >followed by an awful covers set, including the worst Richard Thompson cover > >I've ever heard (Wall of Death). So imagine my dismay at seeing that her > new > >album is a set of her old songs accompanied by the London Symphony > Orchestra. > > > >Um, sorry folks, I think I need a holiday... > > > >Azeem > > - -- "It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not." TANTRA’S/ETHERIC PERSIANS AND HIMALAYANS http://www.ethericcats.demon.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 13:47:49 +1300 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni Jimmy wrote: > Help Me, I've Fallen and Can't Get Up > Eh?Jira I just have to get in on this thread. How about: Walking Frame On A Slight Incline The Sixty-Seventh World Ray's Grandson's Honda Integra Goodbye Big Mac Hat Helen _______________________________ "I don't believe in livin' in the middle with available extremes" - Carole King hell@ihug.co.nz - -----Original Message----- From: FMYFL@aol.com To: foa@igc.org Cc: joni@smoe.org Date: Friday, 22 October 1999 06:09 Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni >Bill writes: > ><< possible remakes: > > The Rearrangement > The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard > Song for Sharon's Daughter > >> > >Other possible remakes: > > I Thought I Understood > Sisotowbell Highway > Rusted Tin Angel > For Free, with any Purchase of .... > >Jimmy > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 17:58:57 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni > > << Big Green >> > > Grown Green (groan) > > Paul I > Mama Green Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 21:05:09 -0400 From: "Patricia O'Connor" Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni Edith and the Hip-Pin Purge for Going >> The Rearrangement >> The "second-to-the-last" time I saw Richard >> Song for Sharon's Daughter >> I Thought I Understood >> Sisotowbell Highway >> Rusted Tin Angel >> For Free, with any Purchase of .... >> Help Me, I've Fallen and Can't Get Up >> Eh?Jira ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 18:10:00 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: News on Joni's Next Album (VLJC in this one) > "You've never made me come." End of skit. I laughed until I cried! > > Helen ROTFLMAO! Thanks, Helen! Mark in Seattle who's very stressed out at work these days & needs a good laugh! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 22:08:55 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re: revisiting classic joni << Help Me, I've Fallen and Can't Get Up > Eh?Jira >> Oh I forgot one other revisited song from "Mingus" "Synthetic Furry Sings the Blues" Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 23:58:54 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: rock master class and the "richard" issue thanks to school-of-southern-charm bob, i'm enjoying a tape of joni's rock master class. the beauty, the perfection of joni's piano on ded and impossible dreamer has left me speechless [quite a feat, as you all must know.] i have always liked ded [the song], but i was not very fond of impossible dreamer. in fact, i liked sue mac's cover on a tape of you much better than joni's. now i can hear the song from the right perspective. these songs were meant to be included in a "for the roses" kind of album, if only because the piano figures are so "FTR"!!! i don't mean that joni butchered the songs when she [or larry] tech-ed them up -- and of course, much of the album is irremediably what it is. Still, in hindsight, it would have been so much more innovative to leave 3 stimulants, ded and impossible dreamer alone, in their own category, rather than to assimilate them so much to, say, fiction. i get a very similar feeling when i listen to the hosl demos: they've become MY final version of hosl. [and don't you just LOVE the guitar-and-whistle version of dreamland? it's so much less sombre than the other one. long live kazoos!] as to the last time i saw richard, there were some posts that suggested that this song would be beyond joni's range of experience nowadays. while i agree that that it would beyond her voice range, i think that the song is sufficiently universal to be part of her current repertoire. in fact, joni herself says in the interview part of the rock master show that this is one song that she could sing even in her seventies. [and she's so funnny when she actually sings a bit... sounding like a woman of 90!!!] admittedly, the tape is from 1985; however, why couldn't someone ponder on a 1968 encounter with richard in the year 2000? memories have a way of bouncing back. joni draws a very interesting analogy beweeen singing one's old songs and being cast in certain types of characters. she says that many of her songs were meant to reflect the experiences of an ingenue, but that she would feel very comfortable playing the character of the narrator in the last time i saw richard. isn't joni incredibly gifted! what a great analogy! how everything seems to fall into place after one reads one of her interviews. it helped me understand why i don't feel like singing some her or my songs anymore: it's because i feel miscast!!! this rock master class is a master class indeed. wallyk, taking a break from the unnerving harvard essay questions ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #234 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! 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