From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #219 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Thursday, October 7 1999 Volume 01 : Number 219 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Sire of Sorrow ["John Low" ] Kevin in Scotland (was DED unplugged (was Joni talking)) [Jamie Zubairi <] Shadows And Light Live HDCD [Jamie Zubairi ] Re: Dreams [waytoblu@mindspring.com] Sire of Sorrow/Edith Piaf [Medric Faulkner ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Siresorrow@aol.com] acoustic guitars [Siresorrow@aol.com] server problems? [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Dweems, Queens, Farrell & Job ["Russell Bowden" ] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] I'm back, and mingus ["Takats, Angela" ] Re: Sire of Sorrow ["Catherine McKay" ] re. Sire of Sorrow [Linda Worster ] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Michael Tomlinson Salutes Joni [LLDeMerle ] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Howling Wolves [Scott Price ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Ginamu@aol.com] Re:Sire of Sorrow [FMYFL@aol.com] Re: Howling Wolves [Mark Domyancich ] Mutt [Michael Paz ] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Western Wall, Linda Rondstadt & Emmylou Harris Live [pattihaskins@mindspr] Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD ["Eric Taylor" ] Tribulations and triumph of Job ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 03:27:05 PDT From: "John Low" Subject: Sire of Sorrow Scott Price wrote (Digest #445, Mon. 4 Oct.): >Given her history, her unique ability to express what we feel deep >inside >ourselves, and her skill at analyzing and commemorating these >emotions, >I've always believed that no matter what, she still gives >us >hope...*always* gives us hope. An innocent viewpoint perhaps but >one that >I cling to. This is just so true of so much of Joni's work. I recently made a comment along these lines about "Hejira" in a private email to another jmdler. I said that I thought Joni’s probing look at the human condition in this album makes it a very ‘spiritual’ work. After listening to it I always seem to come away feeling that, despite all our flaws, suffering, mistreatment of others etc. our lives DO have significance. John (in Sydney). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:35:12 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Kevin in Scotland (was DED unplugged (was Joni talking)) Dear Kevin in Scotland As I live in the London I would love to hear from you re the DED acoustic tape that you (according to Bob Muller) have. Bob has offered to send it to me but I figured that if it was sent by someone in the British Isles it would be cheaper. Just a thought. Let me know. Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:27:32 +0100 From: Jamie Zubairi Subject: Shadows And Light Live HDCD Dear Gang I was just listening to S&L last night while trying to write and I have never really paid attention to the song S&L on HOSL because it just seemed too over-dramatic. Listening to it last night on the live album, I was brought to tears just by her sing/speaking the words 'governing', much softer and slower than the studio version and much more plaintively. I will need to read the lyrics now to get what I should be getting from the meaning but they are slowly working into my brain. I'm sure that I could recite the words now just because I have heard the album for a good 7 years. Lines that creep up on me are 'Hostage smiles on presidents Freedom scribbled in the subway It's like night night and day' I'm going to go home tonight and re-read the lyrics and see what I can get. Any suggestions? It's a song about contradictions. That I can gather. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 07:46:12 -0400 From: waytoblu@mindspring.com Subject: Re: Dreams "Just beyond the morning falls, The river of your dreams. Escaping from the day, These wild creatures run away. When the evening hides the sun, The water shines deep the moon. Birds sing sweet sonatas while, Your heartstrings play." vlj ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 05:37:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Medric Faulkner Subject: Sire of Sorrow/Edith Piaf With help from Jerry and because Joni had mentioned her respect for her, I began to listen to Edith Piaf last year. My untrained ear seemed to pick up a connection in their vocal phrasing of dramatic lines such as, "Why have you soured and curdled me?" or "... the janitors of shadowland flick their brooms at me." Medric Faulkner ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 09:14:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow Catgirl said: <> I've been enjoying (if that's the right word) the discussion around Job and Sire of Sorrow, as a Christian I feel like I gotta throw in a couple things... 1. Of course, one of the eternal questions in Man's spiritual quest is "Why do bad things happen to good people", and that is part and parcel of what the book of Job is dealing with. But even further to that, Job's three "friends" come to him and try to explain to him why he had all his misfortune: He had sinned, his children had sinned, God is "correcting" him, etc. Of course, this is bullshit. The bottom line is that, like Catgirl said, life can be harsh, and belief/faith in God is NOT some kind of insurance policy that bad things won't happen to us, but rather that faith helps us to handle the bad things WHEN they happen. 2. The Book is actually 2 parts; a narrative that opens and closes the book and tells the basic story, and the center portion which is epic poetry that delves deeper into the soul of the issue. Most scholars agree that it's not a factual account but rather a piece of philosophical folklore, a compilation of several writers. 3. The manifestation of the "bad things happening to good people" concept also occurs in the life of Christ where he is blameless but is brutally murdered. As far as attaching Joni to a particular faith, I don't think it can be done...in her brilliance and in her own personal spiritual journey she has assimilated things from world religion, philosophy, art, history, to create what works for her, and that's what really matters. Does she believe in a higher power? I would say a definite YES to that one. Bob, trying to make up with God for all the MESSiah-bashing :~D NP: Dinah Washington, "You Don't Know What Love Is" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:34:24 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow > As far as attaching Joni to a particular faith, I don't think it can be > done...in her brilliance and in her own personal spiritual journey she has > assimilated things from world religion, philosophy, art, history, to create > what works for her, and that's what really matters. Amen to that, Brother! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:11:53 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 10/6/99 9:17:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com writes: << As far as attaching Joni to a particular faith, I don't think it can be done...in her brilliance and in her own personal spiritual journey she has assimilated things from world religion, philosophy, art, history, to create what works for her, and that's what really matters. Does she believe in a higher power? I would say a definite YES to that one. >> i think this is very well said. i might even go so far as to say that this makes of our joni a 'spiritual slut' of sorts, if you don't mind me stealing your line. ss ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:03:05 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: acoustic guitars the november issue of acoustic guitar magazene has a couple of nice articles. one is on buying an acoustic guitar. one is on nylon string guitars. and one is on manufacturers which includes pictures and details on Lakewood, Larrivee, La Si Do- (which includes seagull, godin, la patrie, simon, and patrick), Martin, Ovation, Tacoma, and Taylor. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:15:56 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: server problems? wondering if anyone has weird things happening when posting, like getting answers to posts prior to seeing your post on the list? or posting in the am, and not seeing the post till late in the pm? right now it is 11:07 am est. let's see when this lists. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 10:19:52 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD Jamie wrote of the song Shadows and Light: <> I've been meaning to ask if anyone else was blown away by Joni's version of SaL she did with The Band on the Unplugged and Jamming recording that's going around the JMDL? Although I love the other versions too, the Last Waltz performance was sooo enjoyable and surprizing, especially after becoming accustomed to the jazz or gospel flavor of her other recordings of it. She apparently hadn't settled in with all the lyrics yet and the musical feel was pleasantly soft and rolling. So much different from what was released commercially! Penny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 11:28:49 PDT From: "Russell Bowden" Subject: Dweems, Queens, Farrell & Job Sounds like an opening act for CSNY?!?! The fact that our Queen is a Scorpio says a lot, I believe, about her dweem references. Being the deepest of the water signs (conduit of dweems) I would think her dream imagery must be a rich storehouse that contributes to the beautiful (and sometimes mysterious) word images she produces to the undying delight of we; her faithful subjects. I, too, am a flaming Opera Aficianado (OK.....Queen!) And have often thought that some of our Queen's songs are nearly operatic in scale as far as grand worldview and twists of the human heart are concerned. Did that make any sense??? Wally K....help me out here! For many years Eileen Farrell was living in my hometown of Castine, Maine. We happened to attend the same church (St Peter's By the Sea) Occasionally I would fill in for the organist and had the pleasure of hearing Ms Farrell sing. As the church and congregation were rather small, her voice did stand out. Hell of a nice lady. Her 'Un bel di' from Puccini's "Butterfly" was one of the first operatic recordings I ever heard....and I've been diva-ing ever since. (Besides Joni...I love to play arias arranged (by me) as piano solos.) Finally, SoS IMHO partly charts the evaporation of Christian-Judeo way of living that was fairly regular up until the NY Times said 'God is Dead' Her line 'you have no name now' stikes me as Joni letting us know through her/Job's conversation (one-sided, to be sure) with God/ess, that maybe God has packed the Heavenly luggage and split for another more God-friendly universe.Though we may not understand the purpose of everything,perhaps Joni suggests we should continue to question the why and wherefore if we don't have the faith to just accept and hope. Thanks for the space, Love, Russ NP me: Batti,batti, o bel Masetto ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 15:12:31 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD Penny asked: <> I thought it was great, Penny - I LOVE when she gives her songs a new feel, like the "Hejira Samba" we talked about a while back. But in response to your statemant about "not being settled in" with SaL, The Last Waltz was post-Hejira so she would have been plenty settled in with it I think. My take on it was that she just gave it a Band arrangement just like she gave Hejira the jazzed-up treatment when she was playing it with the jazzers. Regardless, it's a real eye-opening version...I remember when we played it over the stereo at Jonifest, it raised a few eyebrows...it takes a minute before you can tell what song she's playing! Bob NP: Paul Weller, "The Changingman" ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 06:48:32 +1000 From: "Takats, Angela" Subject: I'm back, and mingus Hey Listers, I really shouldn't have re-subscribed to the list this early, when I've only just started my new job, but I just missed you guys soooooo much! Hopefully I haven't missed too much joni gossip...I've had John in the Blue Mountains keeping an eye on things, just incase a joni tour 'down under' was announced (I WISH!!!) while I was settling into my new job. (thanks John BTW) I bought Mingus the other day...I've been putting it off for awhile, a bit scared of whether I'd like it or not...I find the whole album fascinating. I knew a lot of the songs from SAL, I love the Mingus version of Dry Cleaner - SO funky isn't it! I must say I have never heard a song as eerie as the Wolves song...Joni is amazing the way she paints a picture with her words and playing..I had chills running down my spin as I listened to it and I've never felt so uncomfortable (if that makes sense) listening to a song, that howling was just scary...I'm sure you've all discussed this song a lot before, but if any new listers would like to share their thoughts on it, I'd love to compare emotions...that way Joni slaps the strings of her guitar to paint a picture of the wolves attacking, well that's what I see...WOW. I didn't know anything about Mingus until this album and I loved the little bits of conversation inbetween the songs - what a colourful character he was...I only wish there was more of him and joni singing together like in the "muggin" snip. Despite this album being SO different to the joni work that I've grown to love (and worship) I really do like it...I respect her for going out on a limb like that, and i think it's so sad that she was ostrasized (I know that's not how u spell that, but hey) by both the folk and jazz communities. Anyway...I hope you are all well and thanks again for all being a part of this list that I have become addicted to. - - Ange Across the deep blue sea in Sydney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 20:57:30 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow I really enjoyed your take on "Sire of Sorrow". You said: "One of the key reasons I see the song as uplifting is becasue in time, her story did live out to be job's story, and her family was restored... Me personally, I still see hope in the song. I see faith as well. And I don't think that is a naieve hope or a foolish faith, or a leap. I see it as a gutsy proclamation. A demand of justice. A demand of god. One that only comes from belief. The fact that she would sing the song shows her genuineness and truth. She hides from nothing in the song. And she keeps on living. I admire her courage to say....so...what's the deal, you tireless watcher. What have I done to you? Show your face! What have I done to you?" A few others have said they find this song depressing. I don't find it so - in fact, I find it courageous and gutsy as well. I also think that, inasmuch as it would apply to Joni's personal situation, most of us have been there - gone through periods of horrible bad times where, just when you think it couldn't get any worse... it does. And yet, the bad times do end eventually. You find the courage to go on and you move from living life from day to day (or even minute to minute in a really bad situation) to really living again. I guess one of the ways this song works for me is that often, when things are really getting me down, I'll either write about it or play my guitar or whatever, and the act of writing down the problem puts it into perspective; the act of playing the guitar puts me in touch with beauty. It seems to me that Joni does work these things out by writing and singing about them - which can be a rather cheap form of therapy. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 17:38:26 -0400 From: Linda Worster Subject: re. Sire of Sorrow I am catching up on digests- having been away- and am delighted to read the thread on "Sire of Sorrow". This song comforts me deeply. The story of Job is meaningful to me for many reasons. One of them is the many conversations I had with my father (who recently passed on) about the story of Job. In particular, he was interested in Carl Jung's "Answer to Job" and we would go on for hours into the wee hours of the night discussing this and many other amazing subjects. It was utterly wonderful to have these sharings with my Dad. So the song brings me memories of my father, which are comforting. But it's more than that. The story of Job holds so much meaning for those who are suffering. (And it does help to know the whole story to really get the song, I think...) I can't sit and *really* listen to this song without sobbing. I have just listened to TI again (yesterday TTT) and been touched and fed and healed yet again. (LOVED the post(s) about sitting with Hejira- I don't know how many times I have done that with that album... and it *never fails* to satisfy the need for connection and deep healing...) I love the way Joni explores the depths of the human condition with such emotional honesty. She cops to the same feelings I have and often hide... anger and despair being prime examples... I have felt this despair. It *really* sucks... But that *is* how it is at *that* moment. It comforts me that she (Job) starts by saying "let me speak"... Nothing can be done about this awful state of despair except perhaps to speak and maybe by some miracle be heard by someone. Not many people can just listen and not try to either fix it or philosophize about it. I know that when I feel this despair, it helps to speak about it to someone who will just *listen*. "Let me spit out my bitterness..." The expression will purge the bitterness. The song begins with hope. And then tells the story. It is not the whole story... but the song is about the profound sorrow part of the tale. That Joni understands this story, is another affirmation of her integrity... to me... Makes me trust her even more and let her into my soul that much more. Job wishes for some one to hear his tale. My Dad loved to talk about the "friends" that came by to listen to Job and responded with platitudes- "adding insult to injury". Instead of help, the "friends" only make things harder to bear and isn't that just the way life is sometimes? In Job's case and in many cases, circumstances do go from poverty and despair to prosperity and happiness. But in this world, this is not always the case. For some people, the situation does not improve. This story, this song helps me to remember that it is fine to feel all these things, that there is still hope despite the experience of this state of being, and that- however good or bad things are for me- there is always a lot of heavy shit going down in this here world... people *are* suffering... it is important to remember somehow. Thank you Joni... again and again and again... Your songs are unbelievably profound expressions of human experience... running the full spectrum from love and joy to despair and disgust. It helps me just to acknowledge it ALL. Linda NP: silence after listening to TI.... NF (now feeling): gratitude... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 18:24:06 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD In a message dated 10/6/1999 1:26:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << I've been meaning to ask if anyone else was blown away by Joni's version of SaL she did with The Band on the Unplugged and Jamming recording that's going around the JMDL? Although I love the other versions too, the Last Waltz performance was sooo enjoyable and surprizing, especially after becoming accustomed to the jazz or gospel flavor of her other recordings of it. She apparently hadn't settled in with all the lyrics yet and the musical feel was pleasantly soft and rolling. So much different from what was released commercially! Penny >> If you remember we played the CD at Asharas. Not many people realized what song was actualy being played since the song sounds so different with a band. Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 19:01:04 -0400 From: LLDeMerle Subject: Re: Michael Tomlinson Salutes Joni Nice to see these men included in the superior professional company of Joni. At 12:16 PM 10/6/99 +0800, Joseph Palis wrote: >Michael listed a lot of names, but he placed an asterisk on artists "I am >most grateful to for the inspiration and musical companionship". > > >Bruce Cockburn >James Taylor >Joni Mitchell >Andreas Vollenweider (isn't he the one who plays harp?) >Van Morrison >Gordon Lightfoot >Dan Fogelberg >America >Elton John >Beatles >Elvis > > >Its nice to see Joni in good company and in a company of men. :-P LL ^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v http://www.angelfire.com/ny/DeMerle/index.html de_merle@iagora.com "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result." ~Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 16:03:40 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD <> Ya know, Catgirl, I didn't hear it being played then.....I must have been to busy visiting with that very engaging lurker John vanTiel. ;-) Or maybe it was one of the other wonderful members of the lost tribe of Joni? At any rate, I think my priorities were in order since I already had the CD...thanks to you, Cat! ;-) Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 16:09:18 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Howling Wolves At 06:48 AM 10/7/99 Angela wrote about "Mingus:" >I must say I have never heard a song as eerie as the >Wolves song...Joni is amazing the way she paints a picture with her words >and playing..I had chills running down my spin as I listened to it and I've >never felt so uncomfortable (if that makes sense) listening to a song, that >howling was just scary... "Mingus" is one of my favorite Joni albums. I was a budding jazz musician at the time of its release and while I had been very attracted to Joni's music earlier I felt like she really "broke through" into the jazz world with this one and it offered just one more bit of synchronicity for me. Anyway, this is a LONG re-post, but a Joni-story/quote that I love. It's from an interview Joni gave to "Musician" in 1983 and takes a while but will eventually work back to "The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey," which remains at the top of my consciousness these days after listening to Marian's amazing presentation. Following is the text, taken from in the articles section. "There's a song called "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey." It was a live duet between Don Alias and myself; it's a strange piece of music, in that it's an example of a song that has a structure that I had completely ignored. I dropped beats, I added beats, there's bars of 3/4 that are in there, and there's all kinds of abbreviated signatures. Don was thrown into a highly alert position as a drummer, to be able to follow this thing, which was not maintaining a groove, just bursts of rhythmic passages. It was very spontaneous. And, when the thing was over, we figured that magic had, in fact, occurred. As raw as it was, and as technically peculiar as it was, you couldn't beat it for spirit. And I turned to Henry and said, "You know what we need on this now? We need wolves and water gongs." And, that was on a Wednesday night. So he was going to make it a project over the weekend to look through the A&M library of sound effects, and we were going to get some wolves." "So, anyway, that weekend I had company coming from Texas, and I had company coming from Canada at the same time. And simultaneously I was supposed to be at the Bread & Roses Festival. When my guests arrived, coming already from long distances, I had to tell them, "We're moving now!" And we all went to this festival in San Francisco. Things kinda got screwed up and there were some vibes around the whole situation which I won't go into, that made me very introspective. And I noticed at dinner that night, that my introspection was also making the table introspective. So, I thought, "I don't want to be here in this mood with these people, I'm influencing their mood," and so I excused myself. I had told a friend of mine, Tim Hardin, that I was gonna meet him back at the hotel. So I get to the hotel desk, and I say to a very uptight desk clerk, you know, "Would you please give me Mr. Hardin's room?" And he replied, "Can't you see I'm busy?" He was really uptight. The lobby of the hotel was gigantic, and suddenly, across the hall there came a drunk, singing "Why Do Fools Fall In Love?," stumbling across the lobby, snapping his fingers, right? I had nothing but time on my hands, so I perked up, because suddenly there was externally something interesting (laughs), and I was drawn across the hall, and I linked up with him, and we came back across the hall, singing "Why Do Fools Fall In Love?" We ended up standing by the desk, with this uptight guy in the background, and the next thing I knew, we had drawn in two more singers who turned out to be the Persuasions. Well, when we stopped singing, everybody was in great spirits, we all laughed, you know, we patted each other on the back, and we shook hands. "So now," I say to the guy, "Would you give me Mr. Hardin's room," and somebody in the crowd yells, "Oh, Hardin's in the bar." So I go into the bar, there's a kind of loungey jazz band playing, and Hardin is pissed out of his mind, and he comes dancing towards me through this crowded room here, singing to the band, "Hello, Joni," and doing improvisational lyrics. So I start dancing towards him, singing "Hello, Timmy! So good to see you!" The bartender says, "What would you like?" And I sing to him, "One white wine," and the bartender raises his hand in the air, and sings back, "One white wine." And the next thing, the whole room was engaged in this spontaneous Broadway show. Anyway, the story hasn't come to an end yet. Now, we're all in very high spirits. We discover that there's a party on the third floor. We go up to this room, and all the way up the hallway—you know, Timmy and I are hamming it up, just being goofy. We get into the room, and suddenly, the same guy that was drunk in the lobby singing "Why Do Fools Fall In Love?" comes up to me and says, "I have a tape of some wolves." And I say to him, not even realizing how profound it is, "Oh, I'm looking for a tape of some wolves. I'll write down my address and you send it to me." He said, "No, I mean, I've got it on me." So I said, "Okay," and he produced this box of tapes, all homemade with labels on them, and we thumbed through it. It was all African animal sound effects. Well, the very last entry was wolves. So he loaned me his tape recorder, I put the tape on, and it was a cycle of a wolf—-it starts off with the lead wolf, and then you hear yipping of pups and female voices, you know? And then he goes, "Aaaooo-aaooh-abh." Like, the same yelp, but one note up higher in the scale. And then the yipping of the pups, and the females. And the thing was looped about four times. Well, the first time I did "The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey," I just hit the button right at the beginning, picked up the guitar, and uncannily, it was the perfect key. The way the loop was designed, if you started it at the top of the tape and went all the way to the end, it fit the structure perfectly. So anyway, the next night when I went to the concert, my friend Joel Bernstein hooked the tape up and for an encore, I came out and we did this song and we blasted the wolves, mixed them in with the song, and the audience when I was finished singing, some clapped, but most of them howled me back on for another encore. So you see, there's still ways to get spontaneity into a show." I try to imagine Joni feeling a bit apprehensive about all the turmoil that's going on around her and right in the middle of all this she discovers, out of nowhere, this tape of howling wolves that just happens to be in the right key and also just happens to sequence perfectly with her song. Isn't it interesting how the creative process works sometimes? :-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:30:26 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 10/5/99 11:25:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, CaTGirl627@aol.com writes: << True the words are harsh but so is life. Sometimes when you look out into the world and see all the shit that goes on and you wonder why God why?? >> I find SoS cathartic. It's not a nice song but I feel better after I listen to it. Take care, Gina NP: Western Wall - Emmylou Harris/Linda Rondstat (Thank you, Mark in Seattle! It was good the first time but it's getting even better with repeated listenings) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:51:23 EDT From: FMYFL@aol.com Subject: Re:Sire of Sorrow I've enjoyed reading all of the posts regarding SoS, and I've learned quite a bit from them. I even talked with a preacher/friend while working out at the gym today. My Bible history is *extremely* rusty, and he told me all about the Book of Job. My small contribution to this wonderful thread is that I never thought about "Sire of Sorrow" as either uplifting nor one of sadness. I just know it's my favorite song on TI, and it's one which I love to BLAST the stereo to the max. I sing as loud as I can overpowering Joni's voice (you wouldn't want to be around). Anyway, I just love to scream out that song while the dogs and my partner run for cover! Jimmy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:48:14 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: Howling Wolves At 4:09 PM -0700 10/6/99, Scott Price wrote: >And I turned to Henry and said, "You know what we need on this now? >We need wolves and water gongs." Didn't she mean "Water BONGS!!!" :-D ___________________________________ | Mark Domyancich | | Harpua@revealed.net | | http://home.revealed.net/Harpua | | ICQ: 21619464 AIM: CalifKitch | |_________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 23:26:27 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: Mutt Bob wrote: "To further support Eric's statement, I've got a live version of the tune where Joni introduces it's to be sung by someone who's "high-yellow", or light-skinned, meaning a child of an interracial relationship..." I think you guys interp is right on here. As I think I have stated before on the list, I was abused by many aggressive red neck types and have been called a high yella, nigga, spic, queer, you name it. It use to really affect me badly now I wear it like a crown. I kinda dig "mutt" cause it really fits where I am. As far as I know I am Mayan, Irish, English, Spanish, German, and BORN in the USA. In New Orleans we'd call that quite a gumbo. In my book I can pretty much hang in any neighbourhood and it's only flaky repressed folk with their heads up their arses that I still threaten with my colour or shade. While I say "frankly my dear I don't give a damn" that's not really true cause it still hurts sometimes especially when Mikey says shit like, "is it cause I'm brown?" Peace, Michael NP-Always-Jonatha Brooke (I love this song!) P.S. I've always enjoyed blondes, but decided on a brown mutt. sigh! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 21:35:11 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD Bob wrote: <> Well, slap my ass and call me Judy! :-D (Did I quote your neighbor right Evian?) Or maybe since I'm listening to Armatrading, it should be "Well, slap my face and call me Joannie!" ;-) Brother Bob, you're absolutely right. I totally spaced out on the dates! Maybe my error was cuz it just feels so much less polished.... the wonderfully casual feel and the lyrics that came across as a more impromptu. Geez, and her delivery was fabulously loose too! Everything about it is just great! And while were talking about alternate versions, does anyone else prefer her version of Number One done at Amnesty International over what was put on CMIARS? Penny NP Armatrading...(I Love It When You) Call Me Names ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 00:14:44 -0500 From: pattihaskins@mindspring.com Subject: Western Wall, Linda Rondstadt & Emmylou Harris Live Just got home from the show, Linda and Emmylou and incredible band: Greg Liesz, guitars of all kinds; Buddy Miller, guitars, assorted stringed instruments and drums occasionally; Ethan Johns (son of producer Glyn Johns), drums and guitars occasionally; Wix (on loan from Paul McCartney), accordian, keyboards; Bernie Leadon (yes, THAT Bernie Leadon from the Eagles et al), guitars, assorted stringed instruments and Linda's niece on high harmonies. What a show. But..............here's the Joni part. Linda and Emmylou were talking about the fact that Dallas is so big and covered with roads and buildings, like all of America, they assured us, that Emmylou had a hard time finding someplace for her dog to do her "business" after being on the bus for nine hours. She says to Linda, "Isn't that what Joni Mitchell said, they paved paradise now there's nowhere for your dog to go??" The whole show was simply amazing. Incredible singing and killer band and the most laid back stage and show, in fact, after singing the third McGarrigle song of the night, Linda said, "have you ever seen the McGarrigle sisters act? If you think we're laid back....." and Emmylou said "yeah, they're our inspiration." If you get the chance, GO. Goosebumps all night long. Patti in Dallas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:58:33 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Shadows And Light Live HDCD Jamie Zubairi penned: << I was just listening to S&L last night while trying to write and I have never really paid attention to the song S&L on HOSL because it just seemed too over-dramatic. Listening to it last night on the live album, I was brought to tears just by her sing/speaking the words 'governing'.... 'Hostage smiles on presidents Freedom scribbled in the subway It's like night night and day'.... It's a song about contradictions. That I can gather. >> The live S&L is Joni at her finest! & you must see it on the video to fully grasp her mind-blowing brilliance. To me, it's a song about both sides, past & future, trying to live together now. The line that always gives me goosebumps or tears is: "Critics of all expression Judges in black & white Saying it's wrong Saying it's right Compelled by prescribed standards Or our own ideals we fight For wrong Wrong & right" To me, the fight is between proven fact & blind belief.... Y2K2U2 ;~) E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 23:17:17 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Tribulations and triumph of Job The Sire of Sorrow posts have been very wonderful and thought-provoking and tonight I experienced an analogous story of blind faith and spirit triumphing over utter devastation and despair. As some of you may recall, almost a year ago this month Michael Paz asked me to attend a private Hollywood screening on his behalf of Oliver Stone's movie "Savior" about the Bosnian war. The star actor of that movie, Dennis Quaid, contributes much to Michael's mother's clinic in Honduras and that screening was a benefit for Honduran relief. That very night, a year ago, Hurricane Mitch hit Honduras with a terrible fury and settled in for seven straight days, leaving incomprehensible destruction and almost total devastation in its wake. Fast forward to tonight - I fill in for Michael again at a special screening in downtown L.A. of Michael's friend Steven Scaffidi's documentary "The People's Story: The Devastation of Central America", a totally unscripted account of the Hondurans' story filmed a mere four days after the hurricane ended. The film starts with news and video footage of the devastation and five minutes into it I am overcome with emotion and in tears. It moves on to the survivors' stories of what they experienced - whole towns, homes, belongings, everything of meaning to them - washed away and obliterated overnight, watching friends and neighbors drown before their eyes - unrelenting horror. All is gone for most everyone in the blink of an eye. In the middle of the film comes a tale from one woman of how everything in her home was completely washed away except, inexplicably, a crucifix on the wall that is not even wet, and a statue of Mary that stands on a corner shelf unscathed. From that point the film moves on to interviews with men, women and children of every age expressing spirited and almost divine proclamations of faith, hope, enthusiasm and inspired resolve to rebuild their country from nothing. They are homeless, there is no food, clothing or shelter, yet they all have picks and shovels in their hands digging out and putting it all back together. They are even smiling and laughing and singing as they go on in the midst of total obliteration of their lives and country. This film recently won the gold medal for best documentary feature at the Houston Film Festival and Scaffidi was asked to submit it for consideration for an Oscar nomination. That is the reason for the L.A. screening which will run for a week at the Laemmle Theater here. Several representatives from the local Honduran, Guatamalan and Salvadoran embassies were there tonight and I really enjoyed speaking with them and Scaffidi. One-third of the residents of Honduras (2 million people) are still homeless, yet their representatives wanted to stress more than anything that they are rebuilding and the last thing they want is the world to write them off as a loss. They are hoping to primarily position the country economically for tourism. Incredibly the hotel and resort infrastructure escaped most of the hurricane's destruction. From what little I saw, the country is gorgeous. After the film they served Honduran food and WOW is it good! My friend and I scarfed up several helpings of it and plan to eat nothing else from now on. You think Paz's shrimps are tasty - ha! He's holding out on us big time. I'm dreaming of a future Jonifest in the Bay Islands now ;-) Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #219 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. 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