From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #218 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Wednesday, October 6 1999 Volume 01 : Number 218 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Sire of Sorrow [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! ["Wally Kairuz" ] Re: Sire of Sorrow ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Dreams [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Talking Joni [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Mingus [Susan McNamara ] Re: The Gospel according to Joni [Phyliss Ward ] Whiny White Kids [Phyliss Ward ] Sire of Sorrow [Siresorrow@aol.com] RE:Dreams ["David Greenspoon" ] Re: Dreams(JC) [Siresorrow@aol.com] CDR Tree 1 & 2 ["David Foley" ] RE:Dreams [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Sire of Sorrow [Louis Lynch ] More Joni Dreams ["Kakki" ] Re: Dreams(JC) [Susan McNamara ] RE: Mingus [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] RE: Talking Joni (wait just a darned minute ...) [Don Rowe ] quote ["Bill Dollinger" ] Re: The Gospel according to Joni ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: The Gospel according to Joni ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: CDR Tree 1 & 2 ["Wally Kairuz" ] Jonatha Brooke playing Elmer, NJ (SJC) [Brian Gross ] Re: Joni's Brilliance [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow [CaTGirl627@aol.com] RE: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! [Joseph Palis ] Michael Tomlinson Salutes Joni [Joseph Palis ] Re: Dreams ["Eric Taylor" ] RE: Dreams ["Wally Kairuz" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:45:19 +0200 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow Mark in Seattle wrote: > But I still love the song and every once in awhile > I sing it to myself with a quick thought to > whatever-force-it-is-that-through-the-green-fuse- > drives- the-flower that I really *don't* feel this way > about my life. Yes! I couldn't even listen to SoS at all until recently. I totally loved the music of the song when I first heard it, but knew that if I played it repeatedly, as I like to do with beautiful songs, I'd have to live with the negative words looping through my head for months/years as nearly all of Joni's songs do. I really didn't want to be saying to myself repeatedly "you make everything I dread and everything I fear come true"! I was afraid of the song - of its potential to negatively program me. But somehow I overcame that fear. I think it has to do with putting myself into the character of Job when I sing/hear the song and telling myself "this is Job, not me", which is what Mark said above. We know Joni has had a lot of personal hardships and we also know she has said that not all of her songs are personal - that many songs are just portraits. SoS certainly fits in with the cover portrait as the final statement on TI, and she has said that the TI portrait was personal, but also kind of tongue-in-cheek, so perhaps SoS is similar. Maybe Joni sought comfort in the story of Job at some point and then felt inspired to write his story into a song. Whatever is true, she certainly left out the happy ending where Job's wealth/health/family are restored and I personally don't find much happiness or comfort in the song. Marian Vienna ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 05:01:47 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! it's a well-known fact that i'm a screaming opera queen. however, until a few years ago i thought the farrell sang only jazz! i had two of her albums of standards and i was SO surprised when i found a cd of opera arias in tower records. i must confess that i didn't like her italian very much, but her voice was so chesty and resounding that i kept the cd anyway. i liked her much better when i heard her highlights of brünnhilde's and isolde's parts. wallyk Don wrote > ... Eileen Farrell -- I couldn't agree more, that woman's voice > was regal! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:24:26 EDT From: Ginamu@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreams(JC) In a message dated 10/4/99 8:32:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, magicflute@mindspring.com writes: << not to mention all the references to dreams in at least 20 other songs(that I could find,anyway)M >> And then there is the reference to being denied the right to dream in the Magdalene Laundries: "Sentenced into dreamless drudgery..." From Otis and Marlena there is the line: "It's all a dream she has awake" And how about: "Given in the night to dark dreams from the dark things she feels..." from Shades of Scarlett Conquering. "...I'm building all my dreams around you, our happiness will never cease..." from Centerpiece, though I know Mandel and Hendricks wrote that one. Gina NP: Paul Simon - The Rhythm of The Saints ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:36:05 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni > I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which contains this > priceless statement: > "If you're smart or rich or lucky > Maybe you'll beat the laws of man > But the inner laws of spirit > And the outer laws of nature > No man can...." > E.T. > I think this is a bit of a stretch. The inner laws of spirit could apply to many different systems of belief, not necessarily those that follow The Gospels. Btw, I believe The Gospels applies to the New Testament, does it not? That would leave Job out. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 06:43:37 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow Whatever is true, she certainly left out the happy > ending where Job's wealth/health/family are restored and I personally don't > find much happiness or comfort in the song. > > Marian > Vienna > Good point, Marian! Why would she leave this part out if she were trying to convey some kind of resolution or hope? I don't think Joni was feeling very hopeful when she wrote this or when she wrote most of the songs on TI. And we all know she is sometimes brutally honest in her songs. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 09:46:40 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Dreams <> Lisa, One you omitted is one that is a key to her use of dreams, I think. From "Silky Veils of Ardor"..."It's just in dreams we fly, in my dreams we fly"...(she references the quote too on the jacket of the record) Dreams are fascinating to me. My thinking is that in dreams our brains try to make sense of all the emotions, feeling, and actions that are taking place in our lives, and attempt to resolve problems, guide us to solutions, or in the case of the best ones, have some great sexual encounters! :~) I think Joni's songs and characters present so much emotion and strong feelings that dreams are a refuge, dreams are a destination, either to escape reality or to exercise imagination, to live the kind of lives they want to. I'm sure that the concept has been covered before, but it's certainly a broad topic and as you've noted, Joni's songs are rife with dream imagery... Bob NP: Louis Jordan, "I'm Gonna Move to the Outskirts of Town" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:01:21 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Talking Joni Patrick, wearing his Larry-colored glasses, writes: <> Well, it also puts into perspective the 40-something gay men who are so enamored with him they have totally lost their sense of objectivity! LOL!!! Bob NP: Louis Jordan, "Choo Choo Ch'Boogie" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 10:16:04 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: Mingus All this talk about Mingus made me stick it in my bag yesterday and listen to it on the bus. This is a brave, beautiful piece of work and I was thinking while I was listening to it that this new album of standards is going to be a showcase for how amazing a jazz singer Joni really is. Her voice is a beautiful instrument and it was really doing pushups during Mingus. As far as the conjectures on the meanings of the lyrics, I think it's very important for anyone who is truly interested in this subject to read Mingus' autobiography, "Beneath the Underdog." Joni obviously read it and a lot of the references in the songs can be traced back to that book. Has anyone here read it? I started it and never finished it (the story of my life, I'm always reading 8 books at the same time and never finishing one of them). If you have, set me straight on this one. My favorite song on the album (giving it a 5.9 to Dry Cleaners 5.8) is Sweet Sucker Dance. I'll listen to it on the ride home again tonight and then change my favorite song to The Wolf ... Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:36:04 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni Mark or Travis wrote: > > I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which > contains this > > priceless statement: > > "If you're smart or rich or lucky > > Maybe you'll beat the laws of man > > But the inner laws of spirit > > And the outer laws of nature > > No man can...." > > E.T. > I think this is a bit of a stretch. The inner laws of spirit could > apply to many different systems of belief, not necessarily those that > follow The Gospels. Btw, I believe The Gospels applies to the New > Testament, does it not? That would leave Job out. I agree Mark. I never saw Joni as a Chistian. In fact, I could swear I have a video interview done with Joni just after TI was released where she proclaims that she is basically a Buddhist. - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 07:48:00 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Whiny White Kids A few weeks ago I went to see Tori Amos and Alanis Morrisette in concert here. I'm really not a fan of either but my 19 year old daughter-in-law-to-be loves Tori like I love Joni so I figured I should give it a try. Tori's sound mix was terrible. All I could hear was bass and drums. Too bad, because her strongest point, in my humble opinion, is her piano playing, followed by her voice. But she is so overdramatic! Yuck! In a way she reminds me of Laura Nyro, who I love, but can only take so much of at a time because to the drama. Alanis' sound was a bit better but she was still very drowned by her band. Whose responsibility is this anyway? And the few lyrics that I do know of hers (since I couldn't hear the words) are pretty whiny too. Can you imagine going to see Joni and not being able to hear the words???!!! Alanis' stage manner is remeniscent of Joe Cocker. This was the worst concert I've been to in a while. Not to mention that I felt very old among all the juveniles there. Oh yes, the Joni content! I went to the ladies room during the intermission and came back in to hear the last snips of "The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines" playing over the loudspeakers. I figure either Tori or Alanis must have chosen this cut for their intermission, a small thrill for me, and a point for them.... - -- Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:20:52 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Sire of Sorrow What a great thread running. One of the key reasons I see the song as uplifting is becasue in time, her story did live out to be job's story, and her family was restored. And, I must confess that I did not know the song before her reunion, so that definately flavors the song for me, as I only had the perspective of her happy ending. Had I heard the song in '94, I might have felt differently. On WTRF she does Love which comes straight from the new testament, only she does a joniesque rearrangement of the last paragraph which changes the flavor of the piece entirely from the one written by paul. But in the case of Sire of Sorrow, she does not change much of anything, nor does she detail an ending. But her text comes almost verbatum from the book of Job, with only her stylistic touches, rather than substantive changes. To that end, I'm going to list a few quotes from the book that stand out to me in the song. Me personally, I still see hope in the song. I see faith as well. And I don't think that is a naieve hope or a foolish faith, or a leap. I see it as a gutsy proclamation. A demand of justice. A demand of god. One that only comes from belief. The fact that she would sing the song shows her genuineness and truth. She hides from nothing in the song. And she keeps on living. I admire her courage to say....so...what's the deal, you tireless watcher. What have I done to you? Show your face! What have I done to you? But, I also view the world through eyes of faith and that affects my perceptions. I'm an eternal optimist and when I suffer disappointment and anguish, I try to never let go of hope. Lastly, I also see the song in full context of TI, which starts with Sunny Sundays and ends with Sire of Sorrow and includes a complete theme of justice in several of the 'in between' songs. Chap.3 - Why did I not perish at birth, come forth from the womb and expire....I should have been at rest with Kings and counselors...there, the wicked cease from troubling and the weary are at rest... For what I fear over takes me, and what I shrink from comes upon me... Chap 7- I will speak in the anguish of my spirit, I will complain in the bitterness of my soul My flesh is clothed in worms and scabs, my skin cracks and festers You affright me with dreams and terrify me with visions Oh, you watcher of men Why have you set me up as an object of attack? Why should I be a target for you? Chap 10- I will speak form the bitterness of my soul. Let me know why you oppose me. Is it a pleasure for you to oppress, to spurn the work of your hands, and smile on the plan of the wicked? Have you eyes of flesh, do you see as a man sees. I should have been taken from the womb to the grave. Chap.21- Why do the wicked survive, grow old, become mighty in power...these folk have infants numerous as lambs, and their children dance...yet they say to god, depart from us, for we have no wish to learn your ways. Chap.23- Though I know my complaint is bitter, his hand is heavy upon me in my groanings. Oh that today I might find him, that I might come to his judgement seat. Chap. 31- Let the almighty answer me! Chap 42- I have dealt with great things that I do not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I can not know. I had heard of you by word of mouth, but now my eye has seen you. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 10:14:48 PDT From: "David Greenspoon" Subject: RE:Dreams Lisa Writes: She has written several songs with "Dream" I agree that dreams seem to be a dominant component to a lot of Joni's songs but not just the word dream being used in her lyrics I also find that most of her songs (for me at least) feel like they are in a dream. For instance:"The last time I saw Richard" from Blue feels surreal, like in a dream. David I'm traveling in some vehicle I'm sitting in some cafe A defector from the petty wars That shell shock love away... - -JM ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:49:43 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreams(JC) very cool post. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:12:25 +0100 From: "David Foley" Subject: CDR Tree 1 & 2 Have only just subscribed to the list - saw a message about a CDR tree. I would dearly love to participate in the tree. Can anyone please send me more info. Best Wishes David Foley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 14:25:07 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE:Dreams David said: <> That's funny, because I feel the exact OPPOSITE about 'Richard'. To me the images are SO specific that it's not dreamlike, but rather cold hard reality. Of course, it's all in what you see and what you bring to it. On the other hand, "Paprika Plains" is quite the dreamscape - first she's floating back in time, then she's floating back into dreams, and even says "I dream Paprika Plains"...and after the series of surreal images, she sings, "I'm floating back to you"... Bob NPIMH: Aerosmith, "Dream On", Fleetwood Mac, "Dreams", Everly Brothers, "All I Have to do is Dream".... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 11:47:18 -0700 From: Louis Lynch Subject: RE: Sire of Sorrow Good thread, "All this talk about holiness now, must be the start of the latest style." Harper Lou ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 12:29:18 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: More Joni Dreams From "The Dawntreader" Fold your fleet-wings, I have brought some dreams to share A dream that you love someone, a dream that the wars are done, A dream that you tell no one but the gray sea They'll say that you're crazy and dream of a baby Like a promise to be free, children laughing out to sea From "Cactus Tree" There's a drummer and a dreamer Kakki NP: (Coincidentally ;-) Sting - After the Rain Has Fallen - "after the dream has broken there'll still be love in the world" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:13:37 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Dreams(JC) Obviously, one of my favorite dream references is "It's all a dream she has awake" but this morning when I was listening to Mingus this section from Chair in the Sky made me rethink my sig: Daydreamin' drugs the pain of living Processions of missing Lovers and friends Fade in and fade out again In daydreams of rebirth I see myself in style Raking in what I'm worth Next time Love those dreams, sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ < weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:28:01 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: Mingus Sue said: <> "Brave" is a wonderful word for it, Sue. And I agree, I think Joni's Standards project is going to be huge for her in terms of recognition. So many critics and music folk as well as the general public who don't "get" her music will have a chance to just enjoy that sterling voice without having to "bother" with looking at lyrics, etc. I played the version of "The Man I Love" for my Dad the other day and he really liked it. There may be hope for the old boy yet! :~) <> I haven't, I'd heard of it but I thought it was the autobiography of Sweet Polly Purebred! (This joke for cartoon junkies only) Seriously, thanks for mentioning it, I've put it on my book list. I just got the new Thomas Harris yesterday from the library and only have 2 weeks with it... Bob NP: Robyn Hitchcock, "Uncorrected Personality Traits" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 13:36:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: RE: Talking Joni (wait just a darned minute ...) - --- Bob replies to Patrick: > > < perspective all the > 40-something > straight men who decry larry's influence.>> > > Well, it also puts into perspective the 40-something > gay men who are so > enamored with him they have totally lost their sense > of objectivity! LOL!!! Wait just a darned minute! Since when has baggin' on my supposed "influence" on Joni EVER had anything to do with sexual orientation? Men and women ... straight, gay, bi-, trans-, nons-, and fetishists of every ilk & flavor --have all given Uncle Larry the bum's rush over DED ever since it's release ... and you thought I wasn't paying attention. ;-) Larry Klein ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:39:16 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow About a month before Turbulent Indigo came out I met a friend on the street and of course he knew I was a big Joni fan. He said, "Hey, did you hear that Joni is dying of cancer?" You can imagine the way my heart sank when I heard that. At the time I didn't have the Joni Mitchell Home Page to verify the rumor so when I heard Sire of Sorrow for the first time I really thought Joni was expressing her anguish about her illness. Much later I read an article on the jmdl that explained the root of the rumour: ======================================================================== Before Joni Mitchell consulted a mystic healer on the matter of the bleeding lesion in her throat, she asked some conventionally qualified, AMA doctors about it and they informed her it was what Sammy Davis Jr had. The late Sammy Davis Jr. They told her it was caused by smoking and gave her five years. Five years later when Joni Mitchell tells this story, we are approximately half way through our interview and she is approximately half way through a packet of Marlboro Lights. Mitchell chain-smokes, and it's one of the smoothest chains you've ever seen. As her left hand stubs one out, her right is already loosening the next from the packet. She's been smoking since she was nine - maybe literally - and she wasn't about to quit simply because her voice packed up during a video shoot and doctors were showing her fibre optic shots of an open wound on her larynx. "I grasped that smoking was an irritant," she says, "I didn't believe it was a cause." So (and here the story takes a mildly Californian twist) she sought a second opinion from a Hawaiian mystic called Oleta. "She's a two-powered mystic. With you fully dressed and lying on a table, she can see into your body by going wall-eyed, seeing light and shadow through your clothes. I said, 'Look in my throat, Oleta. Do you see death there?' 'No,' she said. This sounds so crackpot: she sent me water. The water was electrically charged and commanded to sluice and slowly restore. She fixed me. "It's healed up. My voice is fragile, but I do believe I'm singing better than ever in my life. I'm on the brink of being a great singer. I've lost my high end but I don't miss it - you don't need it. I had three and a half octaves, all of that stratospheric stuff was just trying to impress. Billie Holiday had seven notes. And what she did with it." From London Independent article, October 1994 ========================================================================= So now I just think of Sire of Sorrow as just another one of Joni's more chariscuro prose poems on the Book of Job! (boy is that a pretentious line or what!!!) :-) ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 16:47:25 -0400 From: "Bill Dollinger" Subject: quote I just found this quote in microsoft bookshelf: There are things to confess that enrich the world, and things that need not be said. Joni Mitchell (b. 1943), Canadian-born U.S. singer, songwriter. Independent (London, 13 May 1988) Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:40:05 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni I wrote: <<....I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which contains this priceless statement: "If you're smart or rich or lucky Maybe you'll beat the laws of man But the inner laws of spirit And the outer laws of nature No man can...." >> Mark responded: << I think this is a bit of a stretch. The inner laws of spirit could apply to many different systems of belief, not necessarily those that follow The Gospels. Btw, I believe The Gospels applies to the New Testament, does it not? That would leave Job out. >> I've read "The Gospel of Wicca" & think Joni's lyric (above) speaks for the Old Religion as well. Gospel means Good News & we could all use some more of that. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:44:56 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni Phyliss wrote: << I agree Mark. I never saw Joni as a Chistian. In fact, I could swear I have a video interview done with Joni just after TI was released where she proclaims that she is basically a Buddhist. >> Well I agree with Mark & Phyliss. My original point was that I love it when Joni puts music to biblical themes. This doesn't mean that I think Joni is Jewish or a Christian. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 19:31:35 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: CDR Tree 1 & 2 oh my god!!! for a moment i thought you were david foley of the kids in the hall! welcome to the list david. wallyk > Have only just subscribed to the list - > David Foley ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 17:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Gross Subject: Jonatha Brooke playing Elmer, NJ (SJC) From the Appel Farm website (http://www.appelfarm.org/evening_concerts.htm): "** Limited Seating - Order Early ** Jonatha Brooke Friday, October 29, 1999 8:00PM Tickets: $22.00 advance/$25.00 on the day Jonatha Brooke made headway through the 90s with her jazz-influenced songs and a voice that appealed to older Joni Mitchell fans and also to the younger set. Since being released from her major record label contract, she has attracted even larger record sales through her own masterful use of the internet. Appel Farm audiences will remember her as one half of the story, who made their regional debut at the Arts and Music Festival way back in 1993. Jonatha's popularity has made major strides since then and this promises to be a sold-out show! " As of Tuesday evening Oct 4, there are only about 70 tickets left for a venue that only seats 250. If you'd like to see her (I sure would), please email me offlist by Wednesday evening Oct 5 so I can get the tickets. Take care, Brian np: NPR, The World ===== "No paper thin walls, no folks above No one else can hear the crazy cries of love" yeah, right __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1999 20:45:47 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni >> I think this is a bit of a stretch. The inner laws of spirit could >> apply to many different systems of belief, not necessarily those that >> follow The Gospels. Btw, I believe The Gospels applies to the New >> Testament, does it not? That would leave Job out. > >I agree Mark. I never saw Joni as a Chistian. In fact, I could swear I >have a video interview done with Joni just after TI was released where >she proclaims that she is basically a Buddhist. >-- Can we call Joni Job-less then? Just playing around with words :-) Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 18:01:15 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni > Mark or Travis wrote: > > > > I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which > > contains this > > > priceless statement: > > > "If you're smart or rich or lucky > > > Maybe you'll beat the laws of man > > > But the inner laws of spirit > > > And the outer laws of nature > > > No man can...." > > > E.T. > > I think this is a bit of a stretch. The inner laws of spirit could > > apply to many different systems of belief, not necessarily those that > > follow The Gospels. Btw, I believe The Gospels applies to the New > > Testament, does it not? That would leave Job out. > > I agree Mark. I never saw Joni as a Chistian. In fact, I could swear I > have a video interview done with Joni just after TI was released where > she proclaims that she is basically a Buddhist. > -- > Phyliss I don't know about a video interview but I remember reading a quote of hers that said something like (this is when she & Klein were still married) 'I'm Buddhist by practice and Jewish by injection' and then she laughed. Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:13:36 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Joni's Brilliance In a message dated 10/3/1999 12:29:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, magicflute@mindspring.com writes: << Robert..What a beautiful post! Since I was 16(I'm now 47) I knew how incredibly brilliant Joni was(and still is!) I will always be amazed and uplifted by her beautiful lyrics(yes I really do LISTEN to those words!)When the world becomes too much to bear at times I do exactly what Jennifer did and allow Joni to "cradle" me.Joni has helped me thru much despair in my life and has been a great source of emotional nurturing when no one else was around or when no one else seemed to truly understand what I was feeling or what I needed.All I can say is that I love Joni dearly... Lisa >> My regards EXACTLY!!!!!!! Catgirl NP: night in the city- sec. fret sets ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:21:52 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 10/5/1999 3:32:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mark.travis@gte.net writes: << read and everything I fear come true' at the end. I agree with Phyllis. I don't find anything uplifting in this song except for the fact that it's brilliantly written, arranged and executed. To me it is a cry of anguish. There is no acceptance or peace made with God or anything. There is just pain and anger and despair. I had to stop listening to it because it came into my life at a time when I felt pretty much the same way. In order to pull myself out of it I had to get out of that mindset. I ended up thinking to myself 'If you go on thinking this way, you'll end up really getting what you've imagined - everything you dread and everything you fear.' >> Well I must disagree with you about that song. The arrangement to me is very very uplifting!! True the words are harsh but so is life. Sometimes when you look out into the world and see all the shit that goes on and you wonder why God why?? That song does just that for me. I think it is one of the best songs she has ever done!!! It is very inspiring to me. And even if alot of times I have cried and sang my heart out to that song, it still uplifts me. I remember playing that song over and over again...call me physco but it really gets to me!!! Catgirl np- Conversation-Sec. Fret Sets ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 23:42:48 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 10/5/1999 9:33:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, M.Russell@iaea.org writes: << I couldn't even listen to SoS at all until recently. I totally loved the music of the song when I first heard it, but knew that if I played it repeatedly, as I like to do with beautiful songs, I'd have to live with the negative words looping through my head for months/years as nearly all of Joni's songs do. I really didn't want to be saying to myself repeatedly "you make everything I dread and everything I fear come true"! I was afraid of the song - of its potential to negatively program me. >> I don't focus completely on the words on this song to love it. Yes, if we repeatedly said negative things to ourselves we would feel pretty yucky!! Sometime I just need to hear that song becuase sometime I just get real mad at the way people are. Joni has always made me feel better and hearing someone say the words I sometimes feel make me just feel that much better that I am not along questioning alot of things about how screwed up this world can be. Catgirl trying to make sense...np; Marcie-2nd Fret Sets ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:04:05 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: RE: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! Wasn't she the same one who sang as Mother Abbess in the operatic version of THE SOUND OF MUSIC? Frederica von Stade was Maria. Joseph np: Miles Davis "Filles de Kilimanjaro" On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, Wally Kairuz wrote: > it's a well-known fact that i'm a screaming opera queen. however, until a > few years ago i thought the farrell sang only jazz! i had two of her albums > of standards and i was SO surprised when i found a cd of opera arias in > tower records. i must confess that i didn't like her italian very much, but > her voice was so chesty and resounding that i kept the cd anyway. i liked > her much better when i heard her highlights of brünnhilde's and isolde's > parts. > wallyk > > Don wrote > > ... Eileen Farrell -- I couldn't agree more, that woman's voice > > was regal! > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:18:39 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow Marian wrote: << Whatever is true, she certainly left out the happy ending where Job's wealth/health/family are restored and I personally don't > find much happiness or comfort in the song. >> Mark responded: << Good point, Marian! Why would she leave this part out if she were trying to convey some kind of resolution or hope? I don't think Joni was feeling very hopeful when she wrote this or when she wrote most of the songs on TI. And we all know she is sometimes brutally honest in her songs. >> I for one am happy Joni didn't give SOS a Disney ending. She has recently said that the last song on each album sets the tone for the next so TTT was apparently Joni's way of resolved the deep blue of SOS. When I'm down I don't want to hear Happy Days Are Here Again! That's when I blast Nine Inch Nails' The Downward Spiral or Joni Mitchell's Fiction. When I experience a musician transform ugliness into art it always makes me feel better. Or perhaps misery really does love company.... E.T. NP: TTT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:16:40 +0800 (CST) From: Joseph Palis Subject: Michael Tomlinson Salutes Joni Those who live in Seattle may know him and may have the privilege of hearing him perform live, but that is no reason for others to ignore a great singer-songwriter Michael Tomlinson. He has an exquisite voice that is quite unlike what one hears lately in the stations. Anyway, in his website www.michaeltomlinson.com, he mentioned his favorite musical artists with the following lines: "A great many of these artists have influenced me throughout the years. The others, and the newer ones, have kept me good company. More, even, that for what they taught me about music and expression, I tahnk them for what they've shared of themselves, giving me such musical inspiration throughout my life. What they all gave and are still giving me has caused me to want to give you that same sense of friendship and heart in song." Michael listed a lot of names, but he placed an asterisk on artists "I am most grateful to for the inspiration and musical companionship". Those with asterisks: (in order) Bruce Cockburn James Taylor Joni Mitchell Andreas Vollenweider (isn't he the one who plays harp?) Van Morrison Gordon Lightfoot Dan Fogelberg America Elton John Beatles Elvis Its nice to see Joni in good company and in a company of men. :-P Joseph (as of this writing, exactly 20 minutes a skinhead) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1999 4:30:13 UTC From: Gerald McNamara Subject: a mention in CSNY LP review I noticed a Joni-mention in the review on Addicted To Noise (www.addicted.com.au) of the new CSNY album, 'Looking Forward'. Please forgive me if this has already been pointed out. >The album also features Stills' driving rock anthem "No Tears Left," >Nash's hopeful acoustic ballad "Someday Soon" and Crosby's >"Dream for Him," a sung-spoken, Joni-Mitchell-like jazz tune about >a parent struggling with telling a child the truth about the world. "I >am uncomfortable lying to a child," Crosby sings, backed by his >cohorts. "Feels like building a trap for something wild/ Feels like >building your house on sand/ And expecting the ocean to let it >stand." -Gerald (in Melbourne) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 00:49:03 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Dreams I adore "In my dweems we fwy" from the sleeve of DJRD & often slip into a chorus of "I'm floating into dreams, I'm floating off, I'm floating into my dreams...." Sleeping & dreaming keep us young, healing the body & mind. Since we're talking the Great Spirit, I'd like to share my two fav statements on dreams: "The sleep of the body is the sober watchfulness of the Mind and the shutting of the eyes reveals the true Light." ~Hermes, Vision "For I tell you truly, in the daylight hours are our feet on the ground and we have no wings with which to fly. But our spirits are not tied to the earth, and with the coming of night we overcome our attachment to the earth and join with that which is eternal." ~Jesus, The Essene Gospel of Peace Book Four Sweet Dreams! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 02:22:00 -0300 From: "Wally Kairuz" Subject: RE: Dreams every night, before i go to sleep, i tell myself, "let my dreams teach me tonight." i truly believe that dreams are knowledge, not so much from a freudian point of you, although like all buenos aires natives, i have strong links with freudiana. i view dreams as REAL experience. dreams have pointed a finger at the right way to follow many times in my life. i have solved equations in my dreams that i couldn't figure out while i was studying hours before. and i have changed the course of many dreams or simply make myself wake up when the dream started to lose substance. now, i'm aware that this may mean that i'm very neurotic. still, it's something that i've been able to do since i was a child. after all, i was born with neptune in scorpio. and i may be very neurotic too. incidentally, i had a dream about patrick leader last night. in the dream we were in london and we were both younger. and we KISSED!!! ooh la la. wallyk, in my dreams i mean business - ----- Mensaje original ----- De: Eric Taylor Para: JMDL Enviado: Miércoles 6 de Octubre de 1999 01:49 Asunto: Re: Dreams > I adore "In my dweems we fwy" from the sleeve of DJRD & often slip into > a chorus of "I'm floating into dreams, I'm floating off, I'm floating into > my dreams...." > Sleeping & dreaming keep us young, healing the body & mind. > Since we're talking the Great Spirit, I'd like to share my two fav > statements on dreams: > > "The sleep of the body is the sober watchfulness of the Mind and the > shutting of the eyes reveals the true Light." > ~Hermes, Vision > > "For I tell you truly, in the daylight hours are our feet on the ground > and we have no wings with which to fly. But our spirits are not tied to the > earth, and with the coming of night we overcome our attachment to the earth > and join with that which is eternal." > ~Jesus, The Essene Gospel of Peace Book Four > > Sweet Dreams! > E.T. > > ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #218 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?