From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #217 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, October 5 1999 Volume 01 : Number 217 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Chair In The Sky ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: FTR songbook - paintings ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: Joni remasters/hdcd's [howard ] Re: The Gospel according to Joni [Don Rowe ] Re: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! [Don Rowe ] Mingus [Bounced Message ] RE: do I owe you a Michelle Shocked CD? [Anne Sandstrom ] Re: Talking Joni [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Siresorrow@aol.com] Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) [Don Rowe ] Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) [AzeemAK@aol.com] Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) [David Wright ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Scott Price ] Dreams(JC) [Lisa Kowalski ] Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) [RMuRocks@aol.com] Re: Sire of Sorrow ["Mark or Travis" ] Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) [zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny)] RE: Talking Joni ["patrick leader" ] RE: Talking Joni ["patrick leader" ] too many degrees, not enough sib in the world (vljc) ["patrick leader" ] Re: Sire of Sorrow [Scott Price ] Re: Re:Sire of Sorrow ["Eric Taylor" ] Re: CD-R Tree #1 & #2 ["Lance A. Michel" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 04:25:14 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Chair In The Sky Lisa Kowalski inquired: << Does anyone know what "Mutts of the planet, And shook me down for alibis" from A Chair In The Sky means? I have tried to figure it out but I have no clue what Joni's talking about? >> Well I can only go by my gut interpretation but I suspect Joni is addressing inbred aryans who have a BIG problem with blond women dating black men. The way I see it she subscribes to the Mutt Theory which maintains that humanity is the result of racial crossbreeding. After all, if you believe in evolution we are all aborigionally Africans. And if you believe in creationism we are all Jews. If only we would just contemplate both Mutt Theories for a few seconds perhaps we would finally realize the absurdity of racial "purity." A white-bearded, blue-eyed god is certainly a boogie man IMO! E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 03:16:35 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: FTR songbook - paintings Maurice MP123A321@aol.com writes: << The song that is most moving to me is The Sire of Sorrow......but I struggle with religion and free will, and had the church crammed down my throat as a child. The song is one of very few I never get tired of hearing. The delivery of the performance seems exceptionally real .... to me. I didn't feel that way about anything on TTT. >> Joni's interpretations of biblical themes always blow me away. I find The Sire Of Sorrow very uplifting. & Slouching Toward Bethlehem is simply divine! I can't think of one songwriter in the past 2000 years who can even approach Joni's rendition of Love. Name one composer (besides Beethoven) who has captured the essence of the Gospels as beautifully & honestly as Joni Mitchell with: The Sire of Sorrow Slouching Toward Bethlehem Love Dog Eat Dog The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Shadows & Light Judgement Of The Moon & Stars Banquet BTW, the more I listen to TTT the more I think it rivals Hejira as Joni's best yet. Stay In Touch alone sends me to places no other artist has ever touched! Granted it takes a while to absorb the new sound of her VG-8. But, once again, the Woman is SO far ahead of her time that it might take yet another decade for listeners to appreciate her latest masterpiece. TTT gives me goosebumps, E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 20:59:47 +0100 From: howard Subject: Re: Joni remasters/hdcd's > From: j.pukkila@pp.inet.fi > Subject: Re: Joni remasters/hdcd's > I'm in Europe but for some reason the Joni HDCD's I have are all > American (probably imported). I have only seen one European HDCD, "Court > & Spark". That had an identical insert/booklet to the regular CD. On the > front there was a sticker mentioning it was HDCD - otherwise it looked > just like the regular CD. Didn't see the disc. > > - --jussi I don't know why, but there seems to be quite a problem (cynical view: we are being deliberately conned!) with the HDCDs available in Europe. Many of them have very prominent HDCD stickers on them but are, in fact, the regular CD version. I bought C&S - supposedly the HDCD version, it had the big HDCD sticker, but it the audio had the same problems as the standard CD release. It *didn't* have the line about "art repackaged by ..." on the back which, as Jussi says, is one way to be sure you've got the genuine article. I took C&S back to the shop and got my money back. I've also seen For the Roses, Blue and Mingus in UK stores with the HDCD sticker on them, but the other HDCD clues are missing and the low price confirms they are the normal CDs being packaged as something other than the regular version. Watch out! Howard ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:00:54 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Chair In The Sky Eric said about "Mutts of the Planet": <> To further support Eric's statement, I've got a live version of the tune where Joni introduces it's to be sung by someone who's "high-yellow", or light-skinned, meaning a child of an interracial relationship... Bob NP: Elvis Costello, Pump it Up (live) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:30:25 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: The Gospel according to Joni Eric challenges: << Name one composer (besides Beethoven) who has captured the essence of the Gospels as beautifully & honestly as Joni Mitchell with: The Sire of Sorrow Slouching Toward Bethlehem Love Dog Eat Dog The Wolf That Lives In Lindsey Shadows & Light Judgement Of The Moon & Stars Banquet>> Some would say Handel, but personally I think The Messiah is awful!! I call Handel the "one-hit wonder" of his times. I have had the misfortune to see the entire 3-hour production and all I can say is thank heavens I didn't have a pistol in my pocket. But further to your comment, I would be interested in seeing how you see DED and Judgement as the essence of the gospels. Isn't Judgement sort of a pep talk she wrote for Ludwig B.? And also, any list of her "gospel" songs HAS to have "Passion Play (When All the Slaves Are Free) on it. I admire Joni very much in her spritual journey as she keeps searching for answers in the face of religious hypocrisy. It would be easier for her surely to dismiss it all but she keeps digging for the truth. A good example for us all... Bob NP: The Police, "The Bed's Too Big Without You" (Live) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 09:49:07 EDT From: MDESTE1@aol.com Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni Hard to beat Mozarts Mass in A Major (?) and Requeim. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 07:05:35 -0700 From: Phyliss Ward Subject: Re:Sire of Sorrow Eric Taylor wrote: > I find The Sire Of Sorrow very uplifting. Eric, I love this song now but at first I had a hard time listening to it because it was so "down". Please, tell me how you find it "uplifting"! > Phyliss pward@lightspeed.net http://www.bodywise.com/consultants/bpward ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 07:53:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni > Some would say Handel, but personally I think The > Messiah is awful!! I call > Handel the "one-hit wonder" of his times. I have had > the misfortune to see > the entire 3-hour production and all I can say is > thank heavens I didn't > have a pistol in my pocket. > While I'll grant you that "Messiah" is no "St. Matthew's Passion" ... Handel's genius simply cannot be so easily dismissed. Far from a "one hit wonder", Handel was incredibly prolific. While "Messiah" is generally considered his masterpiece, his works for chamber orchestra, including two volumes of Concerti Grossi, and the famous "Water Music" and "Fireworks" suites, are wonderful examples of baroque composition. Handel though, did not have nearly the artistic liberty Joni's enjoyed in her recasting of King James. His commission from The Archbishop of Canterbury came with strict instructions on which passages to use for the work, and even stricter instructions not to give in to poetic temptation when setting the Word of God to music. That he even accepted the challenge, let alone execute it so deftly, is one of the monumental achievements in Western music ... sacred or secular. I've had the privelege of playing this wonderful work in it's entirety on numerous occasions, and can tell you it is an illuminating and humbling experience. "Unto Us A Child Is Born", "The Pastoral Symphony" and "Shepherds Tend Their Sheep" still bring me to tears every time ... Don Rowe ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 08:05:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: Joni mentioned in opera rag!!!! - --- Wally Kairuz wrote: >"...the ones > that have touched me the > most...are Eileen Farrell, Kathleen Ferrier, Jo > Stafford and Joni Mitchell. It never ceases to amaze me how topics overlap on this magnificent list! My drop-dead favorite recording of Handel's Messiah (recently the subject of Bob's "Gospel According To Joni") features Eugene Ormandy/Philadelphia Symphony, Mormon Tabernacle Choir and amongst other top-flight soloists ... Eileen Farrell -- I couldn't agree more, that woman's voice was regal! Don Rowe ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 10:48:03 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Mingus From: Jamie Zubairi Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:32:09 +0100 << But recently I was in a film playing a transvestite getting changed = in a That sounds fantastic, Jamie! I will look out for it. To the rest of = the=20 crew, let me tell you this man is a damn fine actor - I've seen him = twice on=20 stage (although I still haven't seen the famous blink-and-you'll-miss-it = appearance in the Phantom Menace :-), and look forward to checking this = film=20 out. Azeem, thanks for the compliment!!! Now that I have some cash I will definitely be going to see Jane Siberry in Nov. Also David Gray is playing at the Shep's Bush Empire on Nov 9th. Not too sure if you liked him that much when we saw him supt (ohhhh god I can't remember her name, but rockchick anyway). You're taking singing lessons? Great!! Who with? Let me know. I'm = looking for recommendations. Much Joni Jamie Zubairi ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:29:42 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: do I owe you a Michelle Shocked CD? I'm not the one you owe the CD to, Jimbo, but I just had to share this with the list. I was in an antique store shortly after the release of the AT&T CD. The owner was playing the CD. So I asked him what the music was. Well, we listened to the rest of the CD together (although I had him skip to Joni's Stormy Weather first). And I began searching for WHERE do I get this CD??? After asking the Walden Woods folks, contacting AT&T, etc., I gave up. Shortly after that, I went food shopping for my mother (and felt rather sorry for myself because it wasn't even my turn...) She pulled out THE CD from a stack of mail she was about to get rid of and said, in a really offhand way, almost apologetically, "You wouln't want this would you?" (as in - please get rid of it...) Well I SCREAMED!!! Oh, yes! She still has no idea how much I wanted it. So, see, sometimes good deeds do get rewarded... Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:03:54 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Millennium countdown (SJC) As is the case for probably many radio stations, the station I listen to in Portland (kink 102) is having a countdown of the most influential artists of the millennium, as chosen by their listeners. Hopefully our Joan will not be seen on the list until sometime in Dec when some of the long hairs and "B boys" should also have their day.... Bach, Beethoven, Beatles, Bob and Benny! I'll post where Joni ends up, but here's the fairly eclectic list to date: 102 Tom Waits 101 Queen 100 Alan Parsons 99 The Temptations 98 Steve Miller 97 Bing Crosby 96 Allman Brothers 95 John Lee Hooker 94 John Williams 93 Johnny Cash 92 Neil Diamond 91 Otis Redding 90 Nirvana 89 Nat King Cole I'd love to hear where Joni ends up on some of the other station lists.... Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 15:16:56 -0400 From: dsk Subject: Talking Joni Hi Mr. Generosity Bob, I'm now listening to Joni playing acoustic guitar and singing Three Great Stimulants. This after hearing her talk about her "auk". WHAT A THRILL! Sounds like she's right here. Thank you SO MUCH for sending me this tape -- it's great! And I love hearing Joni's giggle. She's moving to the piano now - -- gotta go -- I know she's going to capture me totally. With a big smile, Debra Shea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:28:29 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: Re: Talking Joni <> yes, the piano stuff is the real jewel in the crown of the recording, I think. And to give credit where it is due, I got my copy from the equally generous Kevin in Scotland. Bob NP: Donald Fagen, "New Frontier" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:36:38 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) Penny posted the KINK 102 list, which I have tried to connect to Joni. Can someone else help with the ones I haven't got yet (or find a shorter route)? 102 Tom Waits: wrote Ol' 55, recorded by the Eagles, featuring Don Henley, who sings on "Snakes & Ladders" 101 Queen 100 Alan Parsons: Engineered "Dark Side of the Moon" recorded by Pink Floyd who also recorded "The Wall" and the live version fetured Joni in a solo 99 The Temptations: recorded with Marvin Gaye who also performed "Trouble Man" which was sung by Joni on Kyle Eastwood's record and in concert 98 Steve Miller: Early band featured Box Scaggs who went on to record Silk Degrees, produced by David Paich who ended up in Toto which featured Steve Lukather who plays on Dog Eat Dog (I think that's all accurate) 97 Bing Crosby: Recorded "Little Drummer Boy" with Bowie who featured Stevie Ray Vaughan on his "Let's Dance" record who covers Hendrix' "Voodoo Chile". Hendrix played at Woodstock which is also a Joni song 96 Allman Brothers 95 John Lee Hooker: Recorded "I'm in the Mood" with Bonnie Raitt who covered "That Song About the Midway" 94 John Williams 93 Johnny Cash: Featured Joni many times on his TV show, they sung a couple of duets like "Long Black Veil" & "I Still Miss Someone" 92 Neil Diamond: Played in The Last Waltz with Joni on "I Shall Be Released" 91 Otis Redding 90 Nirvana (I'm determined to figure this one out) 89 Nat King Cole: I'm guessing he recorded "Stormy Weather", and so has Joni Bob NP: Rolling Stones, "She Was Hot" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 16:40:02 EDT From: Siresorrow@aol.com Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow In a message dated 10/4/99 10:14:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, pward@lightspeed.net writes: << I find The Sire Of Sorrow very uplifting. Eric, I love this song now but at first I had a hard time listening to it because it was so "down". Please, tell me how you find it "uplifting"! >> well, eric has not had the chance to respond here, but sos is also one of my favorites and i thought i might take a shot at the question. the book of job is an uplifting story for me, because after all the speculations of job and the other characters, job finally says to god, ....enough! show yourself! and of course, god does this and reminds job of the things he/she has created and done and so on, and job is left in a state of awe struck wonder and says,,,,these things are too great for me to understand. in joni's song, i really think she did the same thing. i think in ti, she said to god,....go ahead, show yourself! and i'm left to think that some how, for joni, he/she did. somewhere between the hues of vincent van gogh and the melodies of the magdalene laundries, i think joni made peace with god and has been at peace since. so it is for me, an uplifting song that tells me, ...go ahead....demand of god that he/she become real for me in my life, and live with hope and expectation that in saying that prayer..."show yourself".....i become alive in god's world and begin to see things like job said, which are too great for me to understand. and what are these things that are too great for me to understand? well, one might be how it is that through the work of an unknown fan, who is suffering with cancer, a lost daughter is led to her mother and their lives are made whole. that's one for starters. ss. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 14:03:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Don Rowe Subject: Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) 94 John Williams -- Wrote the theme music for "Star Wars", which featured Carrie Fisher, ex-wife of Paul Simon, who toured with Bob Dylan. Joni toured with Dylan behind Taming The Tiger! ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 17:44:58 EDT From: AzeemAK@aol.com Subject: Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) In a message dated 04/10/99 21:41:16 GMT Daylight Time, Bob.Muller@fluor.com wants connections for the following: 101 Queen - recorded Under Pressure with David Bowie, who worked extensively with Eno, who produced U2's Unforgettable Fire; U2 recorded with BB King, of whom I've seen a photo jamming onstage with Joni. 96 Allman Brothers - Duane Allman played guitar on Aretha's version of The Weight; Aretha recorded a song with Annie Lennox, who covered Ladies of the Canyon. 94 John Williams - I'm sort of cheating by going with the Australian classical guitarist John Williams, who I imagine isn't the one meant in the survey! Anyway, he played in the jazz/classical/rock group Sky, whose members included Herbie Flowers, who also played on Lou Reed's Transformer, which was co-produced by David Bowie... follow steps from 101! 91 Otis Redding - Played at Monterey backed by Booker T & the MGs; Booker T played on one song on Shawn Colvin's Fat City, produced by Larry Klein, and, um, you can probably finish the journey on foot. 90 Nirvana (I'm determined to figure this one out) - Well, the easy way was that they covered Bowie's The Man Who Sold The World on their Unplugged, and then follow steps as in 101. However, trying to be a bit more imaginative: Nevermind was produced by Butch Vig, who is a member of Garbage, who "borrowed" some Pretenders lyrics on Special; the Pretenders feature on the Gram Parsons Tribute album Return of the Grevious Angel, which also includes Sheryl Crow, whose Tuesday Night Music Club included David Baerwald, who features on Nothing Can Be Done. Phew! Can I have my prize now?? Azeem in London NP: Still Jane Sib - we're coming up to Oh My My... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 15:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) Azeem came up with: <<90 Nirvana (I'm determined to figure this one out) - Well, the easy way was that they covered Bowie's The Man Who Sold The World on their Unplugged, and then follow steps as in 101. However, trying to be a bit more imaginative: Nevermind was produced by Butch Vig, who is a member of Garbage, who "borrowed" some Pretenders lyrics on Special; the Pretenders feature on the Gram Parsons Tribute album Return of the Grevious Angel, which also includes Sheryl Crow, whose Tuesday Night Music Club included David Baerwald, who features on Nothing Can Be Done.>> Here's another way. One of my best friends, Rhoda, lived four houses away from Cobain and Love in the Madrona area of Seattle when Kurt popped himself. And Rhoda's good friend was the realitor who sold the house to Nirvana's lead singer. As for connecting that to Joni, I've met the Joan....so does that count? ;-D Smiles Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 18:51:31 -0400 (EDT) From: David Wright Subject: Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) > As is the case for probably many radio stations, the station I listen to > in Portland (kink 102) is having a countdown of the most influential > artists of the millennium, as chosen by their listeners.... > > 102 Tom Waits > 101 Queen > 100 Alan Parsons [snip] I know these lists are inherently stupid, but really, how is it that all of these supposedly most influential artists of the *millennium* (except Bing Crosby) are from the second half of the 20th century? Sure are a lot of men on the list, too... - --David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 16:06:19 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow At 04:40 PM 10/4/99 EDT, Siresorrow@aol.com wrote: >in joni's song, i really think she did the same thing. i think in ti, she >said to god,....go ahead, show yourself! and i'm left to think that some >how, for joni, he/she did. somewhere between the hues of vincent van gogh >and the melodies of the magdalene laundries, i think joni made peace with god >and has been at peace since. While I agree that Joni has seemingly "made peace" with many things in her life and has been largely content ever since (TTT being proof), my "take" on this song is not that she was trying to communicate directly with God so much as she was searching for answers to personal questions. "Let me speak, let me spit out my bitterness" she begins. This "bitter" tone is there from the onset and continues throughout the song, although the arrangement featuring ringing guitar harmonics and multi-track, multiple-personality vocals lends such intense drama to the presentation that it's miles away from being self-pitying. Rather, I think she is channeling herself through Job to ask "why me?" She sets the stage with images of being "blessed" and "awaited." Kings "sought out my company" because they recognized something very special. Yet for all her good deeds, she's left with "deep distress." This parallels Joni's career which started with David Crosby (king?) parading her before his gathered friends to serenade them, to becoming a celebrity, to enduring scathing reviews, legal hassles, and dreadful health problems. Through it all she has remained true to her muse and never compromised but her rewards have been few. The song then takes a turn with these lyrics: "Tell me why do you starve the faithful? Why do you crucify the saints? And you let the wicked prosper You let their children frisk like deer And my loves are dead or dying, or they don't come near." I see her trying to find the answer now, wondering why the "wicked" are prospering while the "good" are starving and loveless. Her sorrow is really evident now. Joni gets right to the crux next: "What have I done to you? That you make everything I dread and everything I fear come true?" Wow...a very heavy burden there...a final lament that no matter how faithful and good you've been, in the end, there's not much hope. As she repeats these lines at the song's conclusion, I get the feeling like she's finally resolved the question, and that is, she has simply come to accept things as they are, perhaps seemingly unfair, but precious little she can do about them because it's all part of the grand plan. It's life. In the great tradition of several of Joni's album-closing songs (Judgement of the Moon and Stars, Shadows and Light, Refuge of the Roads, Silky Veils of Ardor, and Love, to name these "big picture" songs) the message I get is that it's OK to feel sorrow, to wonder why good deeds often seem to go unrewarded, to know that others who may be less deserving actually end up succeeding while you are struggling. The lesson, if there is one, is to recognize this and accept it; it's bigger than any of us and beyond our control. She doesn't really offer any clues about how to correct this situation...maybe you can't...or maybe she hasn't quite figured that out yet...I know I haven't... ;-) Scott ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 19:46:00 From: Lisa Kowalski Subject: Dreams(JC) I was wondering if Joni's frequent reference to dreams and dreaming has ever been discussed on the list? She has written several songs with "Dream" in the title,ie: You Dream Flat Tires,Dreamland,The Reocurring Dream,Impossible Dreamer,not to mention all the references to dreams in at least 20 other songs(that I could find,anyway)My list is as follows(I have to type it horizontally cause this crazy computer of mine will zig zag the list all over the place if I type it vertically!) AMELIA: "I dreamed of 747's" OTIS & MARLENA:"They dreamed of golden beauty" THREE GREAT STINULANTS: "Last night I dreamed I saw the planet flicker" PAPRIKA PLAINS: "How came they to this emptiness?How came they to this dream?" SONG TO SHARON:"Chasing dreams;Mamas nylons underneath my cowgirl jeans" TROUBLE CHILD: "Another dream over the dam" CACTUS TREE: "Theres a man who's been out sailing in a decade full of dreams" I DON'T KNOW WHERE I STAND "Thickets tall,until the morning comes up like a dream" BOTH SIDES NOW: "Dreams and schemes and circus crowds" MORNING MORGANTOWN: "Buy your dreams a dollar down" RAINY NIGHT HOUSE: "Upon her small white bed,I fell into a dream" JUST LIKE THIS TRAIN: " Dreaming of the pleasure I'm going to have watching your hairline recede my vain darling" WOODSTOCK: "And I dreamed I saw the bombers riding shotgun in the sky" THE CIRCLE GAME: "Though his dreams have lost some of their grandeur coming true" MARCIE: "Dream back to summer." THE DAWNTREADER: "All his seadreams come to me." SONG TO A SEAGULL: " Fly silly seabird,no dreams can posses you." "My dreams with the seagulls fly out of reach,out of cry." THE LAST TIME I SAW RICHARD the songs you punched are dreaming." BANQUET: "I took my dream down by the sea." WOMAN OF HEART AND MIND: "the queen of your dreams." FREE MAN IN PARIS: "I deal in dreamers." CHAIR IN THE SKY: "Daydreaming drugs the pain of living." Thats the end of my list!! Did I miss any? I don't know why I got into this dream lyric thing,other than I've been dreaming alot lately(more than usual) and Joni's frequent dream references have really caught my attention!! Take Care....Lisa ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:06:04 EDT From: RMuRocks@aol.com Subject: Re: 6 Degrees: Millennium countdown (SJC) In a message dated 10/4/99 4:23:43 PM US Central Standard Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Here's another way. One of my best friends, Rhoda, lived four houses away from Cobain and Love in the Madrona area of Seattle when Kurt popped himself. And Rhoda's good friend was the realitor who sold the house to Nirvana's lead singer. As for connecting that to Joni, I've met the Joan....so does that count? ;-D >> Very creative Penny...but I finally hit upon the easiest Nirvana-Joni connection: Tori Amos covers "A Case Of You" & "Smells Like Teen Spirit"! Whew! Bob NP: Boho Dance from Hissing Demos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:11:58 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow . As she repeats these > lines at the song's conclusion, I get the feeling like she's finally > resolved the question, and that is, she has simply come to accept things as > they are, perhaps seemingly unfair, but precious little she can do about > them because it's all part of the grand plan. It's life. To me this is taking a leap that is not in the song. As Scott pointed out, she repeats the line 'You make everything I dread and everything I fear come true' at the end. I agree with Phyllis. I don't find anything uplifting in this song except for the fact that it's brilliantly written, arranged and executed. To me it is a cry of anguish. There is no acceptance or peace made with God or anything. There is just pain and anger and despair. I had to stop listening to it because it came into my life at a time when I felt pretty much the same way. In order to pull myself out of it I had to get out of that mindset. I ended up thinking to myself 'If you go on thinking this way, you'll end up really getting what you've imagined - everything you dread and everything you fear.' But I still love the song and every once in awhile I sing it to myself with a quick thought to whatever-force-it-is-that-through-the-green-fuse-drives- the-flower that I really *don't* feel this way about my life. > In the great tradition of several of Joni's album-closing songs (Judgement > of the Moon and Stars, Shadows and Light, Refuge of the Roads, Silky Veils > of Ardor, and Love, to name these "big picture" songs) .... (snip) The lesson, if there is one, is to > recognize this and accept it; it's bigger than any of us and beyond our > control. She doesn't really offer any clues about how to correct this > situation...maybe you can't...or maybe she hasn't quite figured that out > yet...I know I haven't... ;-) > > Scott While I agree with you that some of these songs do convey that message, I don't agree that 'Job's Sad Song' does. But I will defend to the death your right to think that way! Mark in Seattle ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 18:22:36 -0700 (PDT) From: zapuppy2@webtv.net (Penny) Subject: Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) David observed: <> Ah, but that's because they're saving the *most* influential for last! Joni, Bonnie, Aretha, Billie Holiday, Bach, Beethoven, Miles, Gerswin, Elvis, etc won't be listed until much lower in the countDOWN. ;-) But I gotta say it was pretty cool hearing Nat being played about every hour today! All of those lush arrangements made me anticipate all the more Joni's new album. Penny ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:21:13 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Talking Joni >I'm now listening to Joni playing acoustic guitar and singing Three Great >Stimulants. i'm currently recording another 'female vocalist mush' (my 12th, in 19 years) and this version of 'stimulants' is currently closing side 1. it's much better, much more casual and real than the npr version, and larry klein's fairly simple piano part is just beautiful. the stories in this interview are just wonderful, especially the 'awk' part. i love when he introduces larry. puts into perspective all the 40-something straight men who decry larry's influence. hmmmm.... ;-) patrick np - bryan thomas - tiresias and we measure our time with silly things. we measure our lives with silly things. so measure me no more in gray scale. measure me only in rainbow. men do not know little girls understand. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 21:41:29 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: RE: Talking Joni shit! i quoted bryan thomas' great lyric without the last line that makes the stanza > >and we measure our time with silly things. >we measure our lives with silly things. >so measure me no more in gray scale. >measure me only in rainbow. >men do not know little girls understand. >until i am woman i can't be a man. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:25:51 -0400 From: "patrick leader" Subject: too many degrees, not enough sib in the world (vljc) azeem threw aside his studies, threw aside his soup, threw aside all friends and lovers to concentrate on more important things: >Nevermind was produced by Butch Vig, who is a member of Garbage, who >"borrowed" some Pretenders lyrics on Special; the Pretenders >feature on the >Gram Parsons Tribute album Return of the Grevious Angel, which >also includes >Sheryl Crow, whose Tuesday Night Music Club included David Baerwald, who >features on Nothing Can Be Done. > >Phew! Can I have my prize now?? > >Azeem in London > >NP: Still Jane Sib - we're coming up to Oh My My... > duly impressed, azeem. still, i think sib's 'oh my my' is your prize, and a fine gift it is, after the rest of that brilliant album. have you, (or jamie, another sibfan on this list) bought jane's new release, the trilogy of concerts from the bottom line (in ny) in 1996, yet? i'm just loving this music. the two new components ('tree' and 'lips') really feel like new studio albums to me, so they demand that level of attention. which i happily give. i've seen jane live a lot in the last couple of years. she's playing in ny (the bottom line, yet again) in december. i guess not long after the london shows. patrick, realizing artistdrift. sorry np - uh, well, siberry - tree ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 22:52:43 EDT From: Dflahm@aol.com Subject: Re: Dreams(JC) THE SILKY VEILS... "It's only in dreams we fly." LAHM ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:12:10 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: Re: Millennium countdown (SJC) In a message dated 10/4/99 11:34:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zapuppy2@webtv.net writes: << Ah, but that's because they're saving the *most* influential for last! Joni, Bonnie, Aretha, Billie Holiday, Bach, Beethoven, Miles, Gershwin, Elvis, >> Wow. I like Elvis Costello a lot, but I never thought of him as being that influential on other musicians. Maybe I underestimated him. ;>) Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:27:40 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: FTR songbook - paintings and sire of sorrow! In a message dated 10/3/1999 6:50:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, MP123A321@aol.com writes: << The song that is most moving to me is The Sire of Sorrow......but I struggle with religion and free will, and had the church crammed down my throat as a child. The song is one of very few I never get tired of hearing. The delivery of the performance seems exceptionally real .... to me. I didn't feel that way about anything onTTT. take care, Maurice >> When I heard that song for the first time I think I cried! It was so amazing!! the vocals in the backround and the words!!! That could be up there with one of my all time favs and at the very least in the top ten! That peice shows just how incredbible she still is!!! Catgirl ps and if you ever look at my profile you will see my fav quotes.....Man is the creator of his own demise ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 00:29:45 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: The Gospel according to Joni Bob rightfully responded: << I would be interested in seeing how you see DED and Judgement as the essence of the gospels. Isn't Judgement sort of a pep talk she wrote for Ludwig B.? And also, any list of her "gospel" songs HAS to have "Passion Play (When All the Slaves Are Free) on it. >> I can't believe that I left out Passion Play! Thanx for pointing this out, Bob. Re: DED. Much of album/CD addresses the hypocrisy of the self-righteous right. Not that the left has a monopoly on G-d. It's just that so many people who claim to speak for G-d seem to forget: "Judge not lest ye be judged." I should have included There Lives A Wolf In Lindsey which contains this priceless statement: "If you're smart or rich or lucky Maybe you'll beat the laws of man But the inner laws of spirit And the outer laws of nature No man can...." E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:34:55 -0700 From: Scott Price Subject: Re: Sire of Sorrow At 06:11 PM 10/4/99 -0700, Mark in Seattle wrote: >To me this is taking a leap that is not in the song. >There is no acceptance or peace made with God or anything. >There is just pain and anger and despair. Ahh, but Mark, my friend...do you believe that Joni would leave the listener with no hope at all? Has she given up? Has she not been able to resolve, at least to a "liveable" level, all this frustration? Given her history, her unique ability to express what we feel deep inside ourselves, and her skill at analyzing and commemorating these emotions, I've always believed that no matter what, she still gives us hope...*always* gives us hope. An innocent viewpoint perhaps but one that I cling to. And by doing so, I (personally) find "Job's Sad Song" neither depressing nor uplifting, instead seeing it as a dramatic examination of one's inner questions. Scott, who loves to "leap" at Joni's songs :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Oct 1999 01:41:29 -0400 From: "Eric Taylor" Subject: Re: Re:Sire of Sorrow Phyliss commented on my statement: >> I find The Sire Of Sorrow very uplifting. << Questioning: >>> I love this song now but at first I had a hard time listening to it because it was so "down". Please, tell me how you find it "uplifting"! <<< Tough question, Phyliss, but the more I think about it, what I most love about Joni is her ability to transform ugliness into a work of beauty. Why do I absolutely LOVE songs like Down To You, Slouching Towards Bethlehem & Otis & Marlena? It must be because Joni takes such disturbing subjects & makes them into a work of art. Recently Not To Blame made me realize that I need to disassociate myself from a close friend who beats up his girlfriend (even though she goes back for more). This certainly does not make me happy but it is nonetheless very liberating. Hope this helps you understand where I'm coming from. E.T. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Oct 1999 22:54:41 -0800 From: "Lance A. Michel" Subject: Re: CD-R Tree #1 & #2 Howdy Folks, Can anyone point me in the direction of the detailed info. for Tree #1 (souce info, generations, and venue & tracklisting); also, has the structure for #2 been posted yet? Thanks in advance.....Hope y'all are well...........L8R As Always.....Peas & Dub......Sir Lance - -- Lance A. Michel: - -There are as many shades to reality as there are windows unto the soul- ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #217 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?