From: les@jmdl.com (onlyJMDL Digest) To: onlyjoni-digest@smoe.org Subject: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #210 Reply-To: joni@smoe.org Sender: les@jmdl.com Errors-To: les@jmdl.com Precedence: bulk onlyJMDL Digest Tuesday, September 28 1999 Volume 01 : Number 210 The Official Joni Mitchell Homepage is maintained by Wally Breese at http://www.jonimitchell.com and contains the latest news, a detailed bio, original interviews and essays, lyrics, and much more. ------- The JMDL website can be found at http://www.jmdl.com and contains interviews, articles, the member gallery, archives, and much more. ========== TOPICS and authors in this Digest: -------- Re: Joni Sleeves ["Helen M. Adcock" ] Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie ["Helen M. Adcock" ] RE: Joni remasters/hdcd's [Anne Sandstrom ] cd tree [KCooper984@aol.com] Re: Mingus ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Joni remasters/hdcd's ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: hissing demos, VIDEO TREE 3 [Bounced Message ] Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie ["Catherine McKay" ] Re: Ethiopia [Susan McNamara ] PWWAM ["Phil Klein" ] Public Eye (was: Reply to Gina, and a movie) [Ashara@aol.com] RE: WTRF [Susan McNamara ] RE: WTRF [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Bethel offer [kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave)] RE: WTRF [Susan McNamara ] RE: WTRF [Bob.Muller@fluor.com] Re: that picture at the back of 'For the Roses' ["P. Henry" ] Re: WTRF ["Kakki" ] Re: PWWAM [Martin Giles ] dts [Jerry Notaro ] Re: HELLO JMDLs/How many: first search was Joni Mitchell ["P. Henry" ] Re: James Taylor song & Joni? [luvart@snet.net] BSN cover [IVPAUL42@aol.com] Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #209 ["Daniel F. Carey" ] Joni music on Ally McBeal [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: WTRF [MGVal@aol.com] Re: BSN cover [CaTGirl627@aol.com] Re: Mingus ["Mark or Travis" ] WTRF [Michael Paz ] I WUB JOAN, TOO [shari ] Re: I WUB JOAN, TOO ["Kakki" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:58:13 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Joni Sleeves Catherine wrote: >I will say though, that I didn't get that much out of "Ethiopia" either, >although, in all honesty, I have it on vinyl, the record player broke, so I >haven't heard the album in years. At the time, I thought the song might >have been written because it was almost expected at the time that writers >comment on the international scene. Not that I would normally expect this of >Joni but I somehow found the song a bit "false". Maybe because aat the >time, everyone was doing "Aid" songs like "Do they know it's Christmas over >there?" and "We are the world" and all that, in which every famous person >and his/her dog participated, to the point where it started getting >ridiculous. That is exactly my take on "Ethiopia" as well! It always felt to me (probably incorrectly - my opinion, remember!) that it was a belated effort to jump on the "Let's sing about some poor third world" band-wagon (no pun intended)! I'm sure Joni's motivations are probably a lot less shallow than that - maybe it was just bad-timing on the part of her record company (although they probably thought it was perfect). But "Ethiopia" is the only Joni song I can really remember hearing on radio over here - student radio, admittedly, not commercial, but she doesn't get a lot of air-play! Helen NP - A Day In The Garden ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:15:42 +1200 From: "Helen M. Adcock" Subject: Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie I originally wrote: >And Helen replied: "I'll probably get flamed for this one, but I've always >thought that anyone who "puts" themself in the public eye by becoming a >performer, should "expect" people to want to know about their lives. >And personally I've always thought that in order >to do well in the entertainment industry, you have to be somewhat conceited, >and hence like the attention, or you'd never make it." And Catherine replied: >Well, OK, if you're out in public, then I supposed you have to expect to be >recognized and deal with it. >Some people think that if you're in the public eye, they have a right to >walk into your house and go through your personal things (and I mean that in >both the physical/literal sense as well as in the emotional/figurative >sense I should clarify that I don't think I (or anyone else) has this as a "right" - I was really just pointing out that with fame and fortune goes a lot of other crap that you may not necessarily want, but have to deal with as part of the "job". How people in the public eye deal with the media, fans, etc. can make or break a career in a lot of cases. If Joni was consistently rude and intolerant of her fans - refusing to sign autographs, etc. - would this list have as many devoted fans? You could argue that we're here for the music, but if she was really nasty, I think it would probably make a difference! And how many people still think Michael Jackson deals with fame in a completely normal and sane fashion? Personally I think the guy not only has a few screws loose, but somewhere along the line, half of them have fallen out and been replaced with silly putty. But that's just my opinion (I don't like his music either - come on, someone get the flame-thrower out, I'm feeling reckless!). You also asked: >>And (bad as it may be) how many have read Brian Hinton's book?! > >I can honestly say, I haven't. Did I miss much? Well, I'm not the best person to comment. I wouldn't be able to separate the fact from fiction in the most part, since I'm just not that familiar with Joni's history, but the general concensus is that he did a pretty bad job. Lots of missing or just plain incorrect information. Other's may be able to explain it better than I can. Helen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:23:39 -0400 From: Anne Sandstrom Subject: RE: Joni remasters/hdcd's There are a few things I'd love to hear fixed on Joni CDs (and maybe they have been - I bought each CD the moment it was issued...) - - get rid of the 'click' at the end of Chelsea Morning - - remix Shades of Scarlett Conquering so that it's not quite so muddy (something is too 'hot' but I'm not sure what...) - - make the tracks of FTR not 'bleed' into one another (I always thought it was just dust on the needle of my turntable that was the cause of this - then it was true on the CD TOO!) Anne ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:46:08 EDT From: KCooper984@aol.com Subject: cd tree Hi All! I don't know how I missed the CD tape tree but would someone be able to make these for me??????????????????? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease????? Thanks! Sue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:20:22 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Mingus Catman said >As for Mingus-well i own it just to make my collection complete. i >have >listened many times, trying to l.ike it, but to no avail. I don't have Mingus yet, and the only song I've heard is "The Wolf that lives in Lindsay" because I bought the "Hits" and "Misses" CDs before I realized you could actually still buy some of the older stuff on CD. i must admit i had to listen to the Wolf quite a few times before I began to appreciate it musically. One day not too long ago, while listening to it, it all began to make sense. There was an actual pattern of verse and refrain and so on that struck me quite suddenly - and I do want to get the whole CD now. But I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone, and there is no point trying to force yourself to like something just because someone else thinks you should. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:33:04 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Joni remasters/hdcd's To add to Colin's request, >Could someone list the Joni cd's available that have been redone? I >seem >to remember someone mentioning that STAS was re-mastered for cd >recently. if that is so, is it any better? I'd like to ask, how do you know if you're getting the "remastered" or the "unremastered" version - would this be obvious on the package somewhere? I'd hate to go out and buy the CD versions of some of the albums (which I have on vinyl) only to find out that they've been remastered and then kicking myself for buying the wrong version. cateri@hotmail.com ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:08:12 -0600 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: hissing demos, VIDEO TREE 3 From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:42:07 EDT In a message dated 9/24/1999 7:47:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, RMuRocks writes: << Catgirl working on CD Tree vol. 2 >> Hurry up with that CD tree already! And what about the video tree, Catgirl!? You need to quit goofing off and ge.t to work! (I'm joking, sweetie!! Retract those claws...) New subject: Little Joni mention in the morning paper, from a Boston Globe article actually...it talks about Meshell Ndegeocello's "Bitter" and compares it to the sadness of Blue. Bob NP: Go Tell The Drummer Man - Second Fret Sets >> OK OK!!! I just got my other NEW printer thanks to good all Pat Mead!! Friends talked me into the EPSON photo stylus 750 printer so I took a chance on that. What a disappointment after seeing Pat's gorgeous pics from his HP 710 C printer. So after he informed me that it was on sale cheap( $120.00) so I bought that too! Will buy a SCANNER next (and Les I promise!!). Anyway, once I get that set up I will make the video tree cover (it is done just needed a better printer) and will send it to Les to send to a site where everyone can download. This will make it easier for whoever helps with the video tree. All they have to do is make a tape and not worry about the cover. All of you can enjoy putting it on your own video box! AS well, I have found out that the video of the BBC is longer then 2 hours so I have decided to make it ONE Video tree (for now) and just put on 1969 and 1974, IF this goes over well then I would like to make video tree 4 with the Whistle stop extra and then add other clips that are not on Video Tree 1 and 2. I have a cool show of her on VH-1 during the Night Ride Home Cd. Marian Russel already has it. (How do you like it Mairan? ) I need to make one video at a time since I am also in charge of CD Tree 2. That goes under way soon for people who want to be leaves. I am still waiting for more branches to sign up. So anyone with a CD burner either freestanding or in your computer and would like to help out PLEASE go to the tape trees and sign up! Catgirl ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:16:11 GMT From: "Catherine McKay" Subject: Re: Reply to Gina, and a movie Helen said: >I was really just pointing out that with fame and fortune goes a >lot of other crap that you may not necessarily want, but have to >deal with >as part of the "job". How people in the public eye deal >with the media, >fans, etc. can make or break a career in a lot of >cases. Definitely. It's another double-edged sword. You want to be recognized for your work and make a living at it, but then you hit the big time (for some people it happens almost overnight, whereas others struggle along for years before gaining any kind of recognition) and you realize you can't even go out to the drugstore or the local pub without being recognized. For my part, I wouldn't mind being rich, but don't think I could take famous! >And how many people still think Michael Jackson deals with fame in a >completely normal and sane fashion? Personally I think the guy not >only >has a few screws loose, but somewhere along the line, half of >them have >fallen out and been replaced with silly putty. It probably happened while he was having various body parts removed/ deleted/ altered. There's probably no one who can be really honest enough with the guy to tell him enough is enough, and encourage him to go for therapy. (Real therapy, not some quack who takes his money and encourages his lunacy.) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:37:58 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Ethiopia >First speaks Paul I.: > ><< melody > as the Ethiopian desert is of water.>> > Ethiopia is not one of my favorite songs but I have to disagree with Paul here for one reason. The Bridge: Little garden planet Oasis in space Some hearts hurt They can hardly stand it Famine phantoms at the garden gates The deep longing in that chord change gets me everytime. And I rank this song only slightly higher than Ray's Dad's Cadillac for the best imitation of a skipping 78. My two cents, Take care, Sue NP: I'm So Tired of Being Alone, Rev. Al ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:09:09 GMT From: "Phil Klein" Subject: PWWAM > Having only watched PWWAM for the first time quite recently, my thoughts are > mixed: > > 1. It's fabulous to look at, and everybody looks to be enjoying themselves Agreed. > 2. The sound is generally very good. You must be lucky, or I'm unlucky. I had to return 2 copies to the shop before I got one with an acceptable sound quality, and even then, its not so great - the vocals are too soft. Phil ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:06:24 EDT From: Ashara@aol.com Subject: Public Eye (was: Reply to Gina, and a movie) In a message dated 9/27/99 6:16:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hell@ihug.co.nz writes: << If Joni was consistently rude and intolerant of her fans - refusing to sign autographs, etc. - would this list have as many devoted fans? You could argue that we're here for the music, but if she was really nasty, I think it would probably make a difference! >> Well.....I think there is a lot of truth in this statement. In the early 80's, Joni did a concert here in Boston that was at the end of her European tour, I believe. According to all sources, (I had just had a baby, and unfortunately couldn't attend) she was VERY rude, obnoxious, and stormed off the stage, refusing to finish her set. I was SO sad when I heard this, and my feelings about her changed a bit then. I did continue to buy her music, but only when I "happened" to notice there was something new in the bins. My love for her music didn't change, but my feelings for the incredibly warm performer that I saw several times in the 70's certainly had a tainted glow to it. In reality, finding Wally's website, and joning this list brought back all the reasons why I love her and her music, especially when I read all the reasons "why" the Boston gig was so difficult for her. Hugs, Ashara ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:17:39 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: WTRF Ben said: >Though having said that when I got WTRF my initial reaction >was real disappointment, sort of along the lines of - 'how could this be >Joni....' I can completely understand this reaction to WTRF because it was such a complete departure from what Joni was doing in the 70s. The main issue I had with this album when it first came out was: IT'S SO DAMN HAPPY! Once you are able to unearth the meloncholy and beauty that is on that album (Chinese Cafe, Moon at the Window, Man to Man) it grows on you - or it did on me anyway. I have two klunkers I still can't deal with -- Solid Love and Underneath the Streetlight -- bow wow. Too sappy for this melancholy baby. For any of you who think I'm dissing Joni, this is like the Spinal Tap joke of pushing the volume up to 11. All Joni's albums are 5 star with me, just some are 5.1 and some are 5.9! :-) Take care, Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:00:16 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: WTRF Sue said: <> But Joni HAD to have a departure...her previous studio record was Mingus, and then she capped that whole period with S&L, which was also a pretty DAMN HAPPY record I thought. She took her "70's period" as far as she could. With WTRF she returned to a simpler pop/rock format, I think to re-establish herself commercially but also to sort of "return to home base" after her jazz journey. I liked the whole record A LOT (which is why I'm having a good time collecting the '83 tour tapes). I could list my most favorites, but I don't have any klunkers on that one - she really seems to enjoy being a rock and roll singer on the upbeat tunes and of course she always shines on the ballads... Bob NP: U2, "Bullet the Blue Sky" from Rattle and Hum ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:20:19 -0400 (EDT) From: kb420@webtv.net (gr8fuldave) Subject: Bethel offer Having recieved the summer '98 Bethel show on the CD tree, I am no longer in need of the cassette version recieved in the last tape tree. I offer it up for trade. You would be getting the actual tape I recieved as a leaf on the tree, not a copy. If I get no trade offers, I'll B&P it. gdave - ----------------------------------------------------------------- DaveBase @ www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/2349/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:19:01 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: WTRF >But Joni HAD to have a departure...her previous studio record was Mingus, >and then she capped that whole period with S&L, which was also a pretty >DAMN HAPPY record I thought. She took her "70's period" as far as she >could. With WTRF she returned to a simpler pop/rock format, I think to >re-establish herself commercially but also to sort of "return to home base" >after her jazz journey. > I think there is so much of Larry's influence on this album, too. That was also a departure for Joni, too, letting another person collaborate on the creative process, where she was so much in control on all the other projects. Am I off base here? I'm kind of spewing off the cuff. Sue ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:28:24 -0400 From: Bob.Muller@fluor.com Subject: RE: WTRF <> I don't know if you're off base or not...I never considered that Larry influenced this one like he did with DED, but I'm just guessing. Maybe I should get to the articles and see what they say to educate myself. He didn't have any songwriting credits on WTRF whereas he did on DED. I think his influence on WTRF was the fact that he was making Joni very happy and it shows in her performances. Bob NP: U2, "Numb" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:44:50 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: that picture at the back of 'For the Roses' <> ummm... just for the record... that *is* Joni. pat NP: Cold Blue Steel out of money One eye for the beat police Sweet Fire calling "You can't deny me Now you know what you need" http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:48:21 -0400 From: Susan McNamara Subject: RE: WTRF Bob said: >I don't know if you're off base or not...I never considered that Larry >influenced this one like he did with DED, but I'm just guessing. Maybe I >should get to the articles and see what they say to educate myself. He >didn't have any songwriting credits on WTRF whereas he did on DED. > >I think his influence on WTRF was the fact that he was making Joni very >happy and it shows in her performances. Well, when in doubt, go to the source. This is what it says on Wally's site about the WTRF period: Joni told Musician magazine: "Larry and I listened to a lot of fads and we tempered them...Larry is a "sounds" man. His ear hears certain things and he'll point them out to me. So a lot of (the sound of the album) has to do with Larry's input. Credit where credit is due." Joni dedicated the album with this message: "Special thanks to Larry Klein for caring about and fussing over this record along with me". ____________________ /____________________\ ||-------------------|| || Sue McNamara || || sem8@cornell.edu || ||___________________|| || O etch-a-sketch O || \___________________/ weekend email address: suemc16@webtv.net "It's all a dream she has awake" - Joni Mitchell ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:13 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: WTRF Bob wrote: > I think his influence on WTRF was the fact that he was making Joni very > happy and it shows in her performances. I look at it as their own personal "court and spark" album. In addition to playing bass on every song, here's what the liner notes on the album say about him: "Special thanks to Larry Klein for caring about and fussing over this record along with me" "Mixed at Paramount Studios by Larry Hirsch, Larry Klein and Joni Mitchell" "Rhythm arrangements on 'Wild Things Run Fast' and 'You're So Square' by Larry Klein and Vinnie Colaiuta" Kakki NP: Jonifest tapes ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:50:46 +0100 From: Martin Giles Subject: Re: PWWAM Azeem gave us his thoughts on the video.. > Joni sounds as though she's hitting all the notes, although I felt she was > either undersinging or mixed too far down, which is odd considering she is > responsible for the mix. I think her voice is mixed quite low, which I agree is odd. I reckon another 2 or 3dB would have done the trick!!:-) If she didn't like the sound of her voice because she hadn't been well, that might account for the level she mixed it at. > Everything changes when she takes off the guitar! Her singing sounds > twice as confident and powerful, leading me to wonder whether the effort and > concentration required of her extremely deft and complex playing is not > detracting from her singing. Does anyone else see/hear it like that? It seems to me that when she does the covers, she is really enjoying herself - she is more animated and she smiles more. On the first tune she suddenly has backing vocalists to sing with. She sounds fresh. Also, I wonder how much she might be bored with having to render her own tunes yet again? It must be a perennial problem for any performer..remember her story about Van Gogh on MOA. I don't know if she has difficulty in performing her songs. I find it nearly impossible to play her syncopated rhythms and sing those wandering lyrics at the same time. BW, Martin. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:02:14 -0400 From: Jerry Notaro Subject: dts Just saw that PWWAM is being released next week on DTS DVD. That must mean that the DVD and tape are selling well. Jerry np: Julia Fordham - Happy Ever After ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:14:52 -0700 From: "P. Henry" Subject: Re: HELLO JMDLs/How many: first search was Joni Mitchell <<...just 1995, when I first got access to the web. How many of you started up your first search engine with the name Joni Mitchell? now *there's* a thread! I can honestly count myself as one, though I didn't get online until 10/96 when I was of course greeted by JM.com. I must say, it was in pretty fine shape by then... unbenownst to me, JMDL was just about to start and, as you know there was the cafe forum. (memorialized by Joni with her huge cup of java sitting at a cafe table on the JMDL hp) (brilliantly, I might add) I posted similarly to my first post to this list back in december: "Date: Sun, 13 Dec 1998 21:22:39 -0700 From: Bounced Message Subject: Re: JMDL Digest V3 #510 From: "P. Henry" hello and holiday greetings to all, I'm Pat (aka: P. Henry) originally from the Detroit area and I'm brand new to this list. I posted once to the cafe 2 years ago before this mailing list existed, ( but have not been back to the site for some time) starting off: "the last time I saw Joni was Detroit in '68..." as, indeed it was... I was friends with, employer of, co performer with, jam session buddy of, sound/light man as well as sometime bodyguard for (as well, of course, as HUGE fan and admirer of) and even loaned my D28 to Joni at times in '66-'68 in the Port Huron/Detroit area. I just want to say hi to all of you and say how great I think this site is... Wally, thank you! pat" as you say, 'When you love someone like Joni she either commands your full attention or you have to let her go completely. There is no in between.'... strangely, no one responded to my post and that's exactly what I did... 'other things intruded' and, for couple years all I ever did was browse JM.com occasionally, never giving a second thought to the discussion forum. I'd even written a longer note to wallyB with no result, but of course I was unaware of his health problems at the time. at any rate, since I (re)joined I 'haven't been able to put it down'. <<...just when I had given up hope some guy out in San Francisco started his deep blue website and I was in heaven!!! How many of you remember when Wally first started up his site and the bio sections were slowly being constructed like a great monolithic sculpture. I would log on every morning to see the updates and read every section like it was a novel I couldn't put down. Every time a new photo would come up I would squeal at my desk and my office mates would look at me like I was a madwoman. AH those were incredible days. I can't thank Wally enough for the unending JOY that site brings me to this day. It's a masterpiece.>> this is such a great story! wally! you da MAN! *much* thanks to both wally and les for giving us so much of themselves and expanding and enhancing the beauty of Joni the way they have, and also to the 'founding members' and contributors credited on JMDL and JM.com... ;o) I know terry was there at the start too... c'mon you 'oldtimers'! show of hands! it's founders day! let's hear about the pioneer days of the sites! <> this is *so* well said, suze! interesting how you tie your relationship with the sites and the list to your relationship with Joni herself... and especially true to the musicians onlist! how many of us have said things here we would love to share with Joni herself? ...or asked? well, *I* could go on and on also, but I think that's enuff or now... * pat NP: Little Wing - Sting http://members.wbs.net/homepages/b/a/d/badwolff.html Angelfire for your free web-based e-mail. http://www.angelfire.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:41:06 -0700 From: Leslie Mixon Subject: A friend of Joni The Old Man and I went to a music festival yesterday which was headlined by the Doobie Brothers (other musical guests were Ray Wylie Hubbard, Fred Eaglesmith, Derek Trucks Band & The Radiators). Steve was wearing his "Siquomb" t-shirt. All of a sudden a gentleman comes up to us and says, "I noticed your t-shirt and I've just got to tell you that Joni's my favorite artist! Right on! Right on! for wearing that shirt." We talked a bit more, he plays music and does some of Joni's songs. He's never checked out JM.com or JMDL.com but we inspired him to do just that. After he shook both of our hands I said, "A friend of Joni is a friend of mine." I wish you could have seen his smile. Leslie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:32:19 -0400 From: luvart@snet.net Subject: Re: James Taylor song & Joni? At 08:21 AM 9/23/99 -0700, you wrote: >Which makes me wonder how many others on the list are just like me. >Joni is the only one I have ever really paid close attention to all the >lyrics of all the songs. Other artists, maybe a few songs of their's I >really ponder, but no one else have I ever taken to heart for their >entire catalog like the Joan. > For me, the only other person besides Joni would be Mary Chapin Carpenter. Heather ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:20:47 EDT From: IVPAUL42@aol.com Subject: BSN cover A nice cover of Both Sides Now is performed by Vonda Shepard in tonight's episode of Ally McBeal, or at least the first verse. I think this may be a rerun. Paul I ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:37:23 -0400 From: "Daniel F. Carey" Subject: Re: onlyJMDL Digest V1 #209 << A fellow new lister and guitar novice was asking for songs to start in with and Coyote was recommended as it is a strumming piece. My take on that is, lots of luck! >> =========== To the guitar novice- If wanting to play in open tunings, I'd start with songs like Big Yellow Taxi and Both Sides Now. There are lots of "plain" barre chords and you can fudge much of the rest of the parts that sound a bit intricate by just sticking with with those barres and holding on to them longer. Both of these can be strummed, too. Another starter would be The Circle Game. Terry ================= Try Chelsea Morning - works easily in Open G - just need to run that two-finger formation up and down to run the melody - you get to play all the way up to the 12th fret, but it is really easy to do. It requires one barre (at 5) momentarily. I picked that up a long time ago when my skill level was much lower - and still caught on to it in a couple of days. Great fun. DC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:57:48 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Joni music on Ally McBeal YEA! I was listening to Ally McBeal which had my sis in law on it and a Joni song came on. Both Sides Now! All I can say is YEA! Cat... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:00:41 EDT From: MGVal@aol.com Subject: Re: WTRF Bob and Sue and Kakki have pointed out Larry things on WTRF: << I think his influence on WTRF was the fact that he was making Joni very > happy and it shows in her performances. >> I look at it as their own personal "court and spark" album. Without recounting another "Chris the Alien" tale, the first hours I had this album were spent pouring over the liner notes and the paintings. The inside of the album has a VERY exuberant looking Joni wedged against Larry. As a matter of fact, it almost looks as though each body, (his and hers), were "cut and paste" from different paintings. It's a Larry/Joni Woo-ing Album, for sure. MG ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:11:59 EDT From: CaTGirl627@aol.com Subject: Re: BSN cover In a message dated 9/27/1999 9:23:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, IVPAUL42@aol.com writes: << A nice cover of Both Sides Now is performed by Vonda Shepard in tonight's episode of Ally McBeal, or at least the first verse. I think this may be a rerun. Paul I ----------------------- Headers ------------- >> Yes it is a rerun and yes my sis in law is Ms. Camaro!! It is so cool that the one Alley McBeal show has my sis in law and a Joni song!! How cool is that??? Catgirl whooo-hoooo! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:40:33 -0700 From: "Mark or Travis" Subject: Re: Mingus > I don't have Mingus yet, and the only song I've heard is "The Wolf that > lives in Lindsay" because I bought the "Hits" and "Misses" CDs before I > realized you could actually still buy some of the older stuff on CD. i must > admit i had to listen to the Wolf quite a few times before I began to > appreciate it musically. One day not too long ago, while listening to it, > it all began to make sense. There was an actual pattern of verse and > refrain and so on that struck me quite suddenly - and I do want to get the > whole CD now. But I can see how it wouldn't be for everyone, and there is > no point trying to force yourself to like something just because someone > else thinks you should. I wanted to respond to this partly because I've been wanting to post something about 'Mingus' and partly because, to me anyway, 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey' is not representative of 'Mingus'. It is one of two songs on the record that Joni wrote both the words and the melody for, the other being 'God Must Be a Boogie Man'. The rest are Charles Mingus's melodies that Joni wrote lyrics for. The two songs that Joni wrote both words and music for are the only two guitar based songs on the album. Although they fit the record thematically they do not sound like the rest of the tracks on 'Mingus'. The rest rely on the interaction of Jaco's bass, Herbie Hancock's electric piano, Wayne Shorter's soprano sax and the percussion contributions of Peter Erskine, Don Alias and Emil Richards for the backup sound that accompanies Joni's vocals. This record may be the most ensemble based album that Joni has ever made. The form is jazz and jazz is very much dependent on the inspiration of each individual player and how they interact. It's hard for me to imagine Joni 'directing' these musicians by humming or singing what she wants them to play. Mingus's melodies are very complex and the music has a very moody sound to it. I would describe it as impressionistic - it has that soft, slightly out of focus quality to it. 'The Drycleaner from Des Moines' is the exception - it is very upbeat and uptempo with a melodic line that twists & turns & really gives Joni a vocal workout. Lyrically 'Mingus' has some spectacular turns of phrase. From Goodbye Porkpie Hat: In the sticky middle of the night Summer serenade Of taxi horns and fun arcades Where right or wrong Under neon Every feeling goes on For you and me The sidewalk is a history book And a circus Dangerous clowns Balancing dreadful and wonderful Perceptions that have been handed Day by day Generations on down There are recognizable melodies and verses to the songs but as I said, they are very complex. You probably won't find yourself humming them absent-mindedly - at least not until you've listened to them 20 or 30 times. They are very beautiful melodies, some of them quite hauntingly beautiful. 'Chair in the Sky' comes to mind. Getting back to 'The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey' it is one of my very favorite Joni Mitchell songs. The way the guitar pings and shoots around with the weird percussion sounds in the background gives it an eerie, cold, menacing effect that perfectly matches the lyrics. And Joni sings it masterfully, wailing the high notes like a Hollywood Hills banshee. The wolves howling in the background complete the feeling of something predatory that is hiding out in the cold and the dark, waiting.... 'God Must Be a Boogie Man' is a great expression of Joni's everpresent theme of yin & yang and the balance between the two. It is witty, earthy and elegant all at the same time. Thematically it is a most appropriate opener for this record. The record as a whole sounds very much like it was painstakingly thought out & put together after much trial and error. As a result it maybe doesn't have the spontaneity that it should have. I think Joni was very anxious about the whole project and tried very hard to make it a worthy tribute to the genius of Charles Mingus but still remain true to her own artistic vision. Not an easy task. The few songs from 'Mingus' that she does on 'Shadows and Light' really benefit from the immediacy of live performance and come to life in a wonderful way, especially 'The Drycleaner from Des Moines'. Although I don't listen to this one very often I do think it's a beautiful record. Maybe not the great statement she meant it to be, but impressive, none the less. As far as her singing is concerned, I think she did pretty well at testing her chops on authentic jazz for the first time. But I think her present day life experience and smokier voice have made her much better at singing jazz now than when she recorded 'Mingus'. Just my opinion. So if you don't have 'Mingus' and you're sitting on the fence about whether or not to buy it or you only listened to it a few times and decided it wasn't for you, may I gently suggest that you do get it and if you already have it, give it another try. It is truly a labor of love and I'm sure it was a tremendous learning experience for Joni. Joni uses just about everything she learns along the way so you can hear echoes of this record in subsequent albums if you listen carefully enough. Well I can, anyway. My two cents. Mark in Seattle (who kinda feels like Sue McNamara - all of Joni's albums are 5 stars - it's just that some are 5.1, some are 5.8, etc.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:26:09 -0500 From: Michael Paz Subject: WTRF Bob wrote: " I think his influence on WTRF was the fact that he was making Joni very happy and it shows in her performances." Bob I have to agree with you on this one. I had to jump in on this thread cause I really love this record. My wife and I were newly in love when it came out. Chinese Cafe holds a deeper meaning for me than almost any other song. I have always thought that a really good _ _ _ _ can make even the biggest sour puss happy. Freda always liked Love and Be Cool on the record. I likes them all. Rock on Joan (oh wait I think we're gonna get Jazzy on the next one) That's ok with me too. Just keep playing darling. Love michael NP-Because I Told You-Jonatha Brooke ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:31:24 -0700 From: shari Subject: I WUB JOAN, TOO To John who wubs Joan: I can't get enough of Lucky Girl ("never loved a man I trusted...far as I could pitch my shoe"), but never much liked too many other songs on DED until Joni played Three Great Stimulants at the taping of PWWAM in Los Angeles-free of all that producing, she sure showed me. By the way, did Three Great Stimulants make it onto the video PWWAM? Shari Excellence is but a habit. We are what we repeatedly do. Aristotle, I think. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:41:09 -0700 From: "Kakki" Subject: Re: I WUB JOAN, TOO Shari wrote: >but never much liked too many other songs on DED until Joni played Three Great Stimulants at the >taping of PWWAM in Los Angeles-free of all that producing, she sure showed me. By the way, did >Three Great Stimulants make it onto the video PWWAM? Shari, the gang who were there missed meeting you! I agree - her performance of the Three Great Stimulants that Friday night completely stunned many of us. Unfortunately, that song did not make it onto the video. (Boy I wish we could get ahold of the "outtakes" version) I hope you are able to obtain or view of copy of it soon. And when you do, please let me know if you appear in the audience, and your location for my next Joni project of identifying all the jmdler's in attendance! Kakki ------------------------------ End of onlyJMDL Digest V1 #210 ****************************** The Song and Album Voting Booths are open! Cast your votes by clicking the links at http://www.jmdl.com/gallery username: jimdle password: siquomb ------- Don't forget about these ongoing projects: Glossary project: Send a blank message to for all the details. FAQ Project: Help compile the JMDL FAQ. Do you have mailing list-related questions? -send them to Trivia Project: Send your Joni trivia questions and/or answers to Today in History Project: Know of a date-specific Joni fact? - -send it to ------- Post messages to the list at Unsubscribe by sending "unsubscribe onlyjoni-digest" to ------- Siquomb, isn't she?